Cabinet compass

19:10Leanna Byrne:But Darren Jones, a key member of Sir Keir's cabinet who was sacked by Andy Burnham, has publicly claimed that no money has been allocated to the digital ID project, something the government has disputed. Leaders of Opposition Party wasted no time in holding the new Prime Minister to account. We want to bring down the cost of energy for households as well as businesses. So it still falls short and it seems to not be funded. Well, it's probably not the best way to help households energy, but we'll have a look at it. At least it's something. That was the Conservative leader, Kemi Badenoch, and the Liberal Democrat leader, Sir Ed Davey there.

19:47Leanna Byrne:What do you think, Russ? I mean, is that like a decent argument that actually that isn't really fully funded if the budget wasn't there in the first place? It's a slightly unfortunate start that the party is starting to have a bit of internal sniping on day one or day two. So that's a little bit unfortunate. I mean, the intriguing thing is I think it's deemed to be a one year event, isn't it? And that therefore may go back to 5 % that VAT and electricity bills thereafter. I would be fairly confident there's almost no chance of that going back up. because we all know that, as US President Ronald Reagan once said, nothing lasts longer than a temporary government programme.

20:21And if this is designed to help people with the cost of living, if it's designed to try and give a little bit of a, you know, to help massage the inflation figures, then you're not going to be too keen to let that figure go back up because it might boost inflation and it might then often squeeze people's pockets in a year's time. So, again, you've got, I'm sure Mr Burnham's keen to say, look, put down a marker. We are very concerned about the issue of the cost of living. We are determined to try and help you. And I can see that, but this is the first step of what will have to be many steps in that direction.

20:49Leanna Byrne:Namisha, does that create an early credibility problem? And does that, you know, give a bit of doubt in your mind? Well, it did, yes. Because, yes, if the money hasn't been put aside anyway, how are you going to be saving that? I thought it made really good sense when Andy Burnham said that two, three days ago. He said, yes, that's what we're going to do. We're going to scrap the ID cards, which I didn't like the idea of it. or not the idea of it, but just the spending money on it at this stage. And I didn't think it was going to achieve that much. But then I don't know all the ins and outs. But yes, I thought, oh, that makes sense.

21:24That's great. At least he's explained how he's going to fund it. And then, of course, yeah, the next day, the money wasn't put aside anyway. You'd think they'd have checked that, really. But yeah.

21:37Leanna Byrne:Well, here's another one. MPs are today suggesting that employers' national insurance contributions should be cut for all under 25s. We were talking earlier about how difficult it is to get a job under 25 for young people. And the Work and Pensions Committee heard overwhelming evidence from businesses that rising employment costs, particularly driven by the national insurance contribution increases, were reducing training and job opportunities with young people disproportionately impacted. And this was particularly the case in retail and hospitality, traditionally big employers of young people.

22:08Leanna Byrne:I'm sure you've just seen this all over. Yes, absolutely. And I mean, I think when you're thinking about employing young people, one of the things you have to think about is what it's like employing somebody under 25 or under 21 or an 18 year old, as opposed to especially in our factory situation, we want somebody on a factory floor. And there are people out there who are aged 30, 40, 50, 60, even 70. I have a 73 year old that works for me at the factory. and they have a lot more life experience and a lot more responsibilities at home and they'll turn up to work day in and day out you don't always get that with younger people and so we almost need an incentive to employ younger people so when they increase the wage so that everybody was getting the same over 21 over age 21 that was really difficult to explain to the rest of our team.

23:06But I think, yes, the national insurance is going to help a huge deal. All the other programs that they had to help, you know, the schemes that they had, I don't think they were going to be very helpful because you had to commit to employing them for a long period of time before you got any money back. This is a direct hit on our national insurance bill, which makes a big difference. So I think it's a great thing. Good thing. Yeah.

23:29Leanna Byrne:Kind of, Russ, from a broader economics perspective, would this help? We had jobs data out yesterday on unemployment for people aged 18 to 24 rose by 0.3 % in the first three months to May. So things aren't going well in that category. 15 % unemployment for 18 to 24 year olds is a frightening number. And any government measure that's designed to try and help that and tackle those who are not in education or employment or training those needs, it's got to be a good thing. It's good for the economy. It gives those workers who want to get involved, it gives them a stake in society and it gives them a chance to start getting out there and earning and then ultimately spending.

24:09So the payback is long. I think the Resolution Foundation said that there's going to be a big initial cost to this, but over time you would like to think that you would get the payback. So it's got to be seen as a good thing. And Nimisha mentioned the magic word there, incentive. It's an incentive for employers and in the end all economics is about incentives and the rest is commentary as the saying goes.

24:29Leanna Byrne:It's interesting though, obviously Nimisha, you have a warehouse, you employ people, people need to use their hands. But what about AI? People are also blaming. It's kind of like it's two things at once. You also you have the increase to national insurance, but then you also have people, particularly office jobs are saying those entry level jobs, they can be done by AI now. Yes, we have. We work with schools, local schools, and where they have to do some work experience and they come into our factory and they work in the office. for one week, one month, six months, whatever. And a lot of those little jobs that, yes, you're absolutely right, AI is doing them a lot better.

25:13But what we should be doing, somebody needs to be operating and using AI. Somebody needs to be there to be using it. And it should be young people. One of the things I was really quite taken aback by, you would think young people, because they've grown up with computers, they've grown up with technology, you put them in front of a computer and they'll know exactly what to do, but they don't. They know about the phone. They know about how to use the phone itself and the social media. They don't know about office suites and all the things we need for them to learn. So even there, there is a gap.

25:45So there is a skills gap where young people are not being taught how to use AI to their advantage when they do get a job.

25:52Leanna Byrne:And Ross, I mean, are we just looking at a different economy when you've got the likes of AI now? We'll find out in the fullness of time. I think that AI will be there, as you said, to improve efficiencies and do a lot of sort of fairly basic data gathering or grunt work. But in the end, you still need junior employees to come into the business, to learn how it works, and ultimately develop and grow up through the business to become ultimately middle and senior management. And if they don't know the basics, then you're going to have a big problem further down the road. So I think that's something we all still need to think about as managers at companies or as employees on a much longer term basis.

26:27And as Namisha was saying, one of the great skills that any young person can have right now is knowing how to use AI, how to ask the right questions so you get the most appropriate, sensible and useful answers.

26:38Leanna Byrne:Now, obviously, the gilts markets, the financial markets are reacting to what's going on in the UK. But broadly, inflation internationally, there's a big lot going on. So price of oil has gone back up to$90 a barrel. No great surprise there, I guess. Well, not given the resumption of hostilities between the US and Iran. I think the US has now bombed Iranian facilities for 10 nights in a row. So the oil price, when the war began in February, was at$70 a barrel. It went to$125. It then almost round-tripped back to$70 when the peace deal was announced. The Memorandum of Understanding came out in early June, but it's now back at 90s, you say.

27:16The other thing that financial markets are increasingly looking at is not just the price of oil, but what's known as the crack spread, which is the difference between the price of two barrels of petrol and a barrel of diesel relative to three barrels of oil. And it's effectively how profitable refining is because we don't put crude oil in our car or our jet engines or our tractors. We put refined product in. So it's looking at the actual stuff that we use. And the crack spread, that price has gone from$40 to$65 in a month, which is telling you that refiners are scrambling around looking for oil supply and they're preparing maybe for higher oil prices going forwards.

27:52And if this carries on, we may find ourselves actually with some much more expensive petrol, diesel, jet fuel prices than maybe financial markets and day one economists are expecting and the inflation numbers suggest. So the oil price is important, but at the moment a lot more people are watching this crack spread. So keep an eye on that.

28:09Leanna Byrne:Well, speaking of international inflation pressures, Donald Trump has announced plans to impose tariffs 100 % on some of the most widely used drugs in America from 2028 as part of his latest effort to move manufacturing to the US. Well, let's speak to our reporter in Singapore, Archana Shukla. Good morning, Archana. Hey, hi. Good morning. I'm in Mumbai, by the way, not Singapore. Oh, pardon me. Well, it's great to have you. So tell me about this story. This relates to generic medicines. Just explain what are generic medicines. Well, generic medicines are basically copy versions. These are copy versions of patented drugs that have lost their patent.

28:51So branded products, when they lose their patent, many other companies come into the market to manufacture cheaper versions. So the moment a patent goes off, you would see multiple brands in the market across the world. So those are generic medicines. They are affordable and they improve access to many patients.

29:10Leanna Byrne:So why does Donald Trump has his eye on them? Why does he want to tariff them by 100 %? And I think then after that, 200 % after a year, right? Yeah, he's been talking about that. He's been talking about, you know, putting tariffs on pharmaceutical imports into the US. He wants companies to come and manufacture these drugs in the United States. He wants to move the production back home for these drugs. and that's why he's been speaking. Last, you know, a couple of months ago, he's actually put tariffs of 100 % on branded products. So these are patented drugs that are still selling as branded products in the United States.

29:46There is a 100 % tariff on companies that do not promise to set up manufacturing. And we've seen companies like L.I. Lilly, Pfizer promise large sets of money and production promises to the US and those tariffs on their products have actually come down. So this is what he wants to pass on to the generic medicines, but it will be far more difficult to do that for generics because of the sheer numbers and the volumes. You know, Liana, nine out of 10 prescriptions that are doled out in the United States are for generic medicines, and it saves huge amount of money for U.S. consumers. So if there is a tariff on these products, the end person receiving the tariff actually would be the U.S.

30:30consumer, because beyond a point, the companies are going to pass on that cost.

30:33Leanna Byrne:And this announcement comes as the White House is preparing for a wider reset of its tariff strategy. Its temporary 10 percent levy on many imports is due to expire on Friday. So are we expecting more this week? Absolutely. You know, this is the week that you would hear of tariffs. We heard of 50 % tariffs on Canadian goods yesterday. Before that, we heard about, you know, fresh tariffs on Brazilian products. So, yes, there is a reset on tariffs. But just have a look at it. You know, most of the announcements that are coming that are not coming for immediate effect. There is a window of negotiation in between, even on the pharmaceutical tariffs.

31:09There is a two-year window, after which it will be 100 % and then 200 % from the third year onward. So most pharma companies say that there is some time to reconcile, to discuss, to negotiate terms with the United States. And also, he's also giving a window because the United States is simultaneously having trade talks with multiple countries. So he's talking with Europe, he's talking with China, with India, some of the countries that will be supplying, that do supply a lot of, you know, generic drugs. And these proposed tariffs could be negotiating ploys when you are looking at these big trade deals that U.S.

31:47wants to be in its favor, even on the other tariffs that we spoke about yesterday about Canada. The U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade deal is under negotiation. So there you go.

31:57Leanna Byrne:All right. Archana Shokla in Mumbai. This is summer at its peak. Whole Foods Market Summer Fruit Fest is your invitation to eat the season. Fresh, organic, and bursting with flavor. Start your day with peaches and organic blueberries and yogurt. Build a grazing board with fresh fruit, prosciutto, and artisanal cheese. Then fire up the grill with no antibiotics ever proteins and fresh produce. Savor the season. Shop Summer Fruit Fest at Whole Foods Market. Thank you so much. Wake Up To Money from BBC Radio 5 Live. Welcome back to Wake Up To Money. It is 5.37. Lots of texts in this morning on our big chat about the economics and the politics.

32:40Leanna Byrne:The economics of the politics. We've got Brendan, the Governor's House Cafe and Deli in historical New York and Trent. Hylianne, Andy Burnham has to seriously use more stick than car to get people back to work or into work for the first time by incentivising small independent businesses to employ more people. Burnham should also consider using our natural resources, gas, oil, coal, potassium, along wind, solar, hydro, etc, etc. Well, Brandon, you should listen back to Wake Up To Money. Yesterday we had a big, big chat about that. But in a few moments we'll be speaking to somebody that has worked closely with the new Chancellor last time he was Treasury, later.

33:14Leanna Byrne:So, yeah, in a few minutes, actually. So just get your thoughts in to us, 85058 or 08085 909693 on WhatsApp. What do you make of the appointment? what you think he should be prioritising. Also, later on in the show, have you watched The Odyssey yet? Has it inspired you to read the book? Because later on we're going to hear from a bookseller who has seen sales of the ancient Greek epic Surge as a result of Christopher Nolan's adaptation. So get in touch with us about that. But, of course, less than two months ago, John Healy resigned as Defence Secretary due to a dispute with the Treasury over funding for his department.

33:56Leanna Byrne:Well, he now finds himself in charge of the Treasury. He is Andy Burnham's surprise pick for Chancellor and he now faces the challenge of easing the cost of living while maintaining fiscal responsibility. Healy is no stranger to the Treasury. He served as Economic Secretary to the Treasury between 2002 and 2005 and then Financial Secretary between 2005 and 2007. We've been asking people in Salford Quays what they think the new Chancellor's appointment, what they think of the new Chancellor's appointment and what his priorities should be. I think it was a good choice, to be honest here. Well, it seems an experienced type of guy I like, you know, for me anyway.

34:34So it goes anyway. For me, personally, it's about long-term financial health for people. The energy crisis is the big one. I think the main need for any government at the moment is to try and get the country united. A big thing I think should be focused is stabilising the country, making things more affordable for people, making sure there's support for our poorer citizens. And again, the energy crisis is a really big one, as well as like food prices as well in supermarkets. Once we can combat those kind of things, then working together and trying to fix bigger problems for like worldwide would be more useful.

35:17trying to sort out some sort of trade deals that are more beneficial for us than what we currently have.

35:25Leanna Byrne:Well, we're joined now by a colleague of Healy's during his first stint at the Treasury. Lord Boateng served as the chief secretary to the Treasury from 2002 to 2005. Good morning. Good morning, Leanne. Well, were you surprised by this appointment? Because it seems like everyone else was. No, I wasn't surprised. John Healy is someone with immense experience. in the Treasury. His approach is principled, patriotic, with a strong focus on policy. And as a Chancellor, he will be guided by his longstanding commitment to growth in and through the regions and a willingness, and this is important, to be innovative in delivering that.

36:06And so, given his association with the Prime Minister's political association and friendship over many years, no, it didn't come as a surprise to me.

36:16Leanna Byrne:Well, you worked through two spending reviews with him. So what is he like to work with? Well, good, thoughtful, someone who contributes and listens, someone who, above all, takes on board the need to be practical in delivery. Let's not forget, this is someone who, way back in 1998, when he was Parliamentary Private Secretary to Gordon Brown, wrote the seminal paper for Gordon and the Treasury on regional development agencies. This was someone who then subsequently, when he was Economic Secretary and Financial Secretary, and certainly during the period in which I was responsible for two spending reviews, worked with me and the Chancellor on delivering his vision in terms of regional development and put, I must say, business at the heart of that.

37:21So I think this is a Chancellor who really will take the Treasury by the scruff of the neck, work well with people and make sure that it delivers to this Prime Minister's agenda.

37:32Leanna Byrne:So he's had challenging jobs in the past and, you know, by your standards, he's certainly overcome them. But from what we heard from some of those people giving their opinions and how they are and the cost of living, does he have a very challenging job ahead? Is this his biggest challenge? Of course it's a big challenge. I mean, we live in troubled and troubling times. What we need, however, is clarity, clarity of purpose. What we need is a focus on delivery. And let's actually take the commitment that the Prime Minister and this government has to growth in every postcode. What the Chancellor understands is how business, and earlier on I heard you referring, or one of your ringers in, referring to small independent businesses.

38:25Well, they were put at the heart of the regional development agencies, which were so disastrously abandoned by the coalition regime in 2010. Again, it's small businesses working, medium-sized businesses, working with local authorities, with the universities, working to develop skills and capacity within the economy that will deliver the agenda of growth that is going to improve the living standards of all of us. But you know, the important thing, Lihana, is that the Treasury needs really to be innovative in this. If you take the challenge of defence spending, what we have not had from the Treasury, it seems to me, in the past years, is an innovative approach to raising money for spending on the defence, spending on defence, which we know has to happen, because the foremost and ultimate responsibility of government is to protect the people and the nation.

39:33So the Treasury needs to be innovative. And the good news is that this Chancellor has a track record of spearheading innovative work and thinking within the Treasury. So I have no doubt that the Treasury is going to play an important role in delivering on the objectives that the whole country wants to see succeed. And business has to be at the heart of that in the regions. Yeah.

39:57Leanna Byrne:And to put context on that, only weeks ago, John Healy accused the Treasury of treating defence as a drain rather than a driver of rope. That was a row. He left. You know, now that he's running the Treasury, does he have to prove that those criticisms were more than just the frustrations of a spending minister? And what would an innovative approach actually look like? What an innovative approach looks like, and the Chancellor knows this very well, is an approach that recognizes that defence has to be part of a wider industrial strategy, that our regions have a role to play in that, And that we have to ensure that we are able to borrow, to invest, and look at innovative mechanisms in order to do that.

40:51And the Treasury needs to be seen as a driver of performance across government. But equally, every part of government has to play their part in ensuring that national objectives are delivered. This is what the Chancellor achieved when he was Economic Secretary and Financial Secretary in the government of which Gordon Brown and myself were members in cabinet. And this is what I have no doubt he will do now he has achieved the highest economic office, office which he well deserves.

41:29Leanna Byrne:So, Lord Boateng, I think this is the crux of it. He wants a clear route to defence spending of 3 % of GDP. can he deliver that without higher taxes, more borrowing, significant cuts elsewhere? Is that possible? What we have to have and what we will have is a national conversation as to how we do that. What we will have is a Treasury which is thinking deeply and acting within the existing fiscal rules which do allow room for borrowing in order to invest, including investment in our national security. And we need a chancellor who will drive that in conjunction with the prime minister and who has a track record of delivery and understanding what it takes to improve and enhance economic performance.

42:25And he'll do that, you know, in a way that is prudent, because that was, you know, that was the word we used during our time and his time in the Treasury. And that's what we delivered. Do that in a way that is prudent, that enhances stability, but above all delivers, delivers to the regions, delivers to the country, to our national defence and well-being.

42:51Leanna Byrne:But it's difficult, isn't it? Every departmental minister believes their spending is essential. How does John Healy face that uncomfortable task of making the same arguments to colleagues that the Treasury probably previously made to him? Look, what the Treasury has not been doing in the past is thinking and working innovatively. It has not allowed departments to make the case to them and to hear the case for innovative approaches to delivering growth, to delivering spending within the departments concerned in ways that involve and engage a national effort. And business in every region has a role to play in that.

43:48And one of the things I learned, Liana, over the years, I began as a lawyer, I became a politician, I then became a diplomat. One of the things I learned was the best way of predicting what's going to happen is by looking at what people have said, written and done in the past. And when you look at what this chancellor has done in the past, in the Treasury as economic secretary, as financial secretary, if you look what he then went on to deliver in local government housing and planning when he was minister there, You see, this is someone who's serious, who's thoughtful, who's focused on policy and on delivery, is willing to think outside the box and works well with others in delivering on that.

44:38That's good news for the country, good news for the economy and good news, too, for everybody who's concerned about investment in business.

44:46Leanna Byrne:There you go. Well, Ross, I'm going to bring you in on this. I mean, Lord Boateng, you know, all his descriptions there. Is that a combination that's likely to reassure markets, to reassure investors? I think, yes, definitely. As we said at the top of the show, if there's a clear and credible program outlined with funding, I think financial markets will be very relaxed. Now, defense spending doesn't necessarily bring the biggest multiplier across the rest of the economy, but it still could create jobs, which does bring some benefits as the workers then go and spend their pay elsewhere. It isn't perhaps as big as some other industries or some other areas where you could spend the money.

45:18But as Lord Boateng said, in the end, the government's primary job is national security, and that's not just military. that's also energy resources and other vital things as well.

45:28Leanna Byrne:And defence chairs have risen on expectation. They did, yeah. Babcock, Kinetic and BAE Systems all went up yesterday on Mr Healy's appointment, intriguingly. Namisha, I mean, the government is promising both fiscal discipline, immediate help with the cost of living. With those priorities, do you think this is all good news? Yes, well, all welcome. I think the biggest thing I want to hear is how they're going to tighten their belts and how they're going to control costs. You need to control costs in order to invest in growth, and that's what we all want. It's a simple maths to me. It doesn't take a genius to work that out, surely, but I am confident.

46:09I mean, I'm a lot more confident now in the government than I was and really looking forward to seeing what they do to help businesses. Farmers, you know, they've had such a raw deal. So let's see where it goes. Yes, I'm excited.

46:22Leanna Byrne:Lord Boateng, another big priority is this growth in every postcode. So what evidence should we look for in John Healy's first budget to show that that's a genuine priority? Well, I think it's worth looking at what John Healy has written about this. And indeed, there was an article in a Harvard publication a few years ago in which he said, and this is, I think, hugely important, we resisted the idea that government at a national level could somehow simply favor cities, largely because that would have favored a few. There may have been economic agglomeration in strict terms, but we were concerned about equality as well as the economics.

47:05So it's right that we should be looking through the regional development agencies at agriculture. It's right that we should be looking at our big industries in pharma, in areas where, frankly, we have not had an industrial policy that's been driven in the past and where we now will have. And that's going to make a difference to everybody. We need an industrial policy. Lip service has been paid to it in the past. Now, through this government's emphasis on the regions and regional development, we will see actually that happening. And that's good news for every sector of the economy, not simply for defence.

47:56And we need a treasury that's driven to work in that way. And John Healy will drive it. He'll drive it with thoughtfulness, with care, with consideration, with an eye, yes, on stability, but making sure that central to all of that is growth, is business, is local authorities, universities, businesses working together on the ground in the regions. And that, I think, is an exciting opportunity and one which we really do need to embrace. It's long overdue.

48:32Leanna Byrne:Do you have any last words for him? Any advice? It's not for me to give advice to the Chancellor. This is someone who I trust, who has earned trust over the years in all the departments in which he has worked and with all the people with whom he's worked, in business, in local authorities, in academia, in the regions. I have no doubt that we are in for times which will provide challenges, yes, but above all, opportunity. And this country is up to it. And this prime minister and this chancellor are going to deliver to the objectives that we have set them. Well, Lord Boateng, thank you so much for coming on Wake Up To Money.

49:13Leanna Byrne:Maybe you'll put in a good word with John Healy and he'll come on the show as well at some point. My pleasure, Leona. You take care. It's been a pleasure having you on. All right. OK, well, let's talk about The Odyssey. Namesha, any interest in seeing it in the cinema? Are you a Christopher Nolan fan? Yes, I've heard a lot about the film. You know, record numbers and biggest opening for Nolan, etc. And it's all very impressive. And you just said, I think, that the sale of the books are climbing, aren't they? The one thing is, though, except it's not true to the book at all. And that seems to be a bit of a trend at the moment, given Wuthering Heights, you know, where it was a big title, one that everybody knows, but it didn't really stay true to the story.

50:04So I'm wondering why use that title if you're not really staying true to it. Yeah, people were raging about that, weren't they?

50:11Leanna Byrne:Yeah. And I'm not really into fantasy. Bring on the minions for me. Fair enough. Well, you're right. The Odyssey is proving to be a box office hit so far, but so are sales of the original Epic. The book sales of The Odyssey are up 70 % on last year with almost 40 ,000 copies already sold this year. That's according to Nielsen, the UK data analytics company, and Kate Skipper is chief operating officer at Waterstones. Good morning, Kate. Good morning. So what have you seen in terms of demand? Big spike? Yes, it's been phenomenal, actually. So we've got the main sales have concentrated on Emily Wilson's translation, which is an incredibly lively adaptation, which Christopher Nolan apparently has been inspired by.

51:02So that book in particular has had an 890 % increase year on year. And we're getting deliveries every day and it's selling as quick as it arrives.

51:12Leanna Byrne:Now, we've got one text in that says, no one should read the Odyssey. It's intended to be told out loud. It's much better enjoyed as an audiobook. That's Sarah in Jerusalem. But I'm guessing you would argue differently. Absolutely. I think, you know, we've just made the point earlier about, you know, the sort of how true a film can be to the book can vary enormously. I think this one very much feels like it was, it's true to the spirit of it. It's not obviously true to every word of the text. So who's buying it? Who's this Nolan effect, I guess, touching in terms of demographics? I think that's one of the interesting things about this book in particular and the film adaptation is that it does have this huge demographic appeal.

52:00So it's this great sweeping adventure story fundamentally, but it's also a Greek myth. So it seems to be appealing from teenagers all the way through to retirees. Both men and women seem equally entranced. Whereas something like Wuthering Heights earlier in the year, that seemed very firmly aimed at a much younger demographic and didn't seem to extend its reach of that film much beyond that.

52:28Leanna Byrne:And so when a classic gets remade like Wuthering Heights, do you generally see a spike in the sales of that book? yes generally there is always a there's always an uplift um but it depends on the scale of the uplift and it depends on the um and this is the longevity of that uplift and weathering heights was a much smaller spike for us so um we we didn't see anything like we're seeing here for the odyssey um and again i think that part of that was because of the demographic of the film also the Odyssey has been incredibly well reviewed it comes with this enormous marketing budget as many films do but the reviews are the element that you can't really predict and that does seem to translate make a difference in how many copies of a title will sell And then Kate, do you have to prepare for this in any way?

53:21Leanna Byrne:Get a bit more stock in? Absolutely what you never do quite know is how much stock you need to get in and sometimes equally with something like this exactly which edition will fly so Emily Wilson as I said that's the one that's doing so incredibly well and deliveries arrive every day and they fly out all the other editions are also selling so Stephen Fry did a great retelling of it a few years ago that's doing really nicely again all the Penguin Classics are doing really great Brilliant. Okay, Kate Skipper, Chief Operating Officer at Waterstones. Thank you so much for joining us. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live.

54:03Leanna Byrne:Also, big thank you to Namisha Raja, owner and chief executive of NIMS Naturally, and AJ Bell's investment director, Russ Mould, who joined us for the programme. And that is it from Wake Up To Money. Listen back to us on BBC Sounds.

54:445 Live Sports I've lived every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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