Lawsuits and lending

27:41Do you think what you're doing today, all these new announcements, is maybe too little too late? I don't. I think it's actually a very targeted positioning of our portfolio and brand. We recognize that this is the most competitive environment on the planet. So yes, there are a lot of Chinese OEMs that are actually flooding the market. What's different about Ford is we've been here for 100 years, and I have one mission on this assignment, and that is to build a sustainably profitable business in Ford for the next 100 years. But you moved out of the mass market. Cherry and BYD have moved into it.

28:15That's done now, surely? It's not done. We're here to compete. We're committed to Europe. And specifically, some of our strategic partnerships have been targeting those affordable electric EVs to bring back the right level of energy and the right level of accessibility that has made Ford strong for 100 years. Very interesting. So that's Jim Bambeck, president of Ford Europe. Theo has been speaking to me. Theo, just fascinating really how we've heard that with the electric car market, we're not so attached to brands and yet the Renault 5, maybe the Ford Fiesta, could well be coming back. Does it feel to you like are they scratching around to try and break back into what the Chinese market has taken?

29:03I think there is a concerted effort by manufacturers based in Europe and focused on Europe to take on the Chinese manufacturers at their own game, Sean. So part of that is the way that cars are manufactured. And if you look at Renault, they've been following a Chinese model of focusing all their operations in one place, trying to get costs down, that kind of thing. But at the same time, I think that heritage really does matter. It's the one thing that the established manufacturers have got over and above the Chinese brands. There is still, I think, a little bit of consumer suspicion of new brands that are coming in.

29:39We saw that with Japanese manufacturers years ago, of course. It didn't last for that long, but it is there. And what Ford and what Renault and other manufacturers have got is brand value. And you look at the Renault 5, there's an awful lot of nostalgia for that brand. So Renault decided it was going to use it. And when they built their new EV, they decided on quirky styling and they decided to have a few visual throwbacks to the original Super 5, as it was called. And it seems to work. You know, it's a popular car. And when you look at the Fiesta, that was the best selling car ever in the United Kingdom.

30:134.8 million of them sold over 47 years. So it seems like a logical step, really, that if Ford is going to build a small car, why not use some of that brand heritage, some of that nostalgia, if you like, that people like my age still feel, I guess, and use it to sell cars? It seems like a no-brainer. Theo, thanks for your time. Fascinating hearing that chat with the president of Ford Europe, Theo Leggett, international business correspondent. And Freddie, I mean, it's very interesting, isn't it, seeing how these huge, well, and what were once even bigger car companies, traditional car companies, really trying to see how they can convince car buyers the way some of these Chinese companies.

31:00I thought Jay Q is from the Cherry company, the Chinese company that Theo is describing there, was the top-selling car in one of the recent set of numbers that we had here in the UK. The headlines at the time were Timu Range Rover, as it was described. What do you think will be the endgame here? Well, I think it's a fascinating conversation. I think some of the statistics around EVs are amazing because I think 15 % of all EV sales now are Chinese cars in the UK. It was 10 % last year and 5 % the year before. So enormous growth for the Chinese vehicles. But I think absolutely right. I think brand attachment is still huge, particularly in the more developed markets.

31:44And I myself had a Renault 5 as my first car. And we're having a debate in my family about whether to go back into a Renault brand. We've got an EB vehicle at the moment. Oh, interesting. I think it's definitely got merit. And it'd be very interesting to see how it evolves. Wake Up To Money with Sean Farrington. Good morning. Wake up to money on BBC Five Live for all our chat about Elon Musk losing a court case to Sam Altman and the Ford Fiesta possibly coming back. It's been the messages about Pep Guardiola that have dominated the screen this morning. Richard in Essex says Pep is a legend. Not only has he transformed Man City, his style of football has been copied at all levels.

32:28Even my own team, Leighton Orient, tries to play inverted full backs and passing out from the back. Unfortunately, we're not good enough to do it and constantly mess it up. There's always similarities made, aren't there, between the world of sport and the world of business and influential leaders and what you can learn from them. We've got Nicky Masterman with us this morning, founder and chief executive of Inspired HR. Nicky, it's interesting, that idea, when you have somebody who changes the way something is done so much, like many see Pep Guardiola as doing in his time as being a football manager in both Barcelona and Bayern Munich before Manchester City and then what he's done here in England.

33:10But then just because you see somebody else doing something in a great way, not necessarily the easiest thing to just copy. And I suspect that does translate to the world of business a little bit, does it? Yeah, it does. And we all like to innovate and improve things. And the reality is if you see something working well, why wouldn't you take that on board and do that? So maybe that's why he's looking. Well, if it works well for someone else, let's maybe give it a try because until you try something, you don't know if it's going to work for you as well. And Freddie Cahoon is with us this morning as well, Investment Director at JM Finn, who expressed earlier his natural biases in this story by saying he was a Manchester United fan.

33:50So I don't know how much we can take your answer on this one, Freddie, but Matt's been in touch, sort of making the point about those 100-plus charges against Manchester City, maybe they can now be dealt with, he says. I mean, there are not necessarily Pep Guardiola's questions to answer, are they? But the era in which he has led Manchester City to so many victories has also been one where the financial world in football has changed at the same time. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the amount of money now within the Premier League is enormous compared to where it was 10 years ago. And I mean, their revenues have grown substantially.

34:34And I think the current squad is actually valued at something like a billion pounds, which is a fairly incredible number. I think, you know, always looking ahead after a long tenure as a leader, you know, it's really important to see who they get next to continue all the work that has been put in for the last 10 years. and I, as you know, with my affiliation to Man United after Alec Ferguson left, it wasn't such a fruitful time. No. So we'll have to see. And Manchester United spent quite a bit more than most in the decades of its successes as well, didn't they? It's always one that's up for debate.

35:14I can say that as neither a Manchester City or Manchester United fan. Martin in Cheltenham has been in touch saying his Pep Guardiola leaving before the financial fair play inquiry is released. by any chance then he won't have to take the flack for it. So let me know your thoughts on that and all we are discussing. What about the banking world? A boot on the neck of growth were the words the Chancellor used last summer to describe the impact of UK regulation on enterprise and innovation. We've heard a lot from businesses around the UK saying similar stuff, but of course it's in the Chancellor's power to change some of this.

35:49The government says it's taking a number of steps to try to lighten the touch of the law on various sectors of the economy. Do you feel like that's the case in whichever sector you might work in? The latest that we're hearing from the government is the relaxation of these ring-fencing banking rules. These are major rules that came out of the financial crisis that had such an impact on economies right around the world, requiring big lenders to separate their retail operations, so kind of the stuff that you traditionally might have seen on the high street or would get from your online banking services, from their investment banking activities, so the big sort of trading and big deals when we talk about big mergers going on and big businesses around the world where money needs to be raised for big businesses to buy and merge with other businesses and do that kind of stuff.

36:38That's more investment banking activities and the trading that can take place around that as well. We've got Peter Harne with us, Emeritus Professor of Finance and Banking, former advisor on regulation to the Bank of England as well. Peter, morning. Just explain to us then what this relaxation might do. Well, in theory, it's less rules. I guess when it comes into practice, it will be less rules. That's less cost, less work. so the banks can put some of that money to work. I think it's a good first step. It's a very long overdue first step, but it's only a first step. Will the banks be putting that money to work to lend to small and medium-sized businesses around the UK to help them grow in a stronger way?

37:28I'm not so sure that that's how it will end up. The current suggestions, you know, So we have to kind of go back for a second why these rules were put in. And there was a great, you mentioned before about politics and politicians being able to change this. So this was regulation that was really came from politicians. And I think there's a great sort of mismemory, if you want to call it, of the financial crisis was 18 years ago. So a lot of people listening might not even have realized what it was at the time. But you can have bad, as you put it, retail banking, the kind that we do as consumers, and good retail banking.

38:12You can have good wholesale or investment banking and bad wholesale banking. In the UK, the financial crisis was largely caused by bad retail banking and not bad wholesale banking. That was different in other countries. So we ended up putting in a regime that was very damaging to wholesale banking. And so now I think as we go through steps to free it, it's potentially that the big issue is reducing the restriction on products that are given. So this concept that we had ring fencing and it trapped most of our deposits into only providing mortgages and small business lending for the most part. If we can let banks do more, if you will, sort of investment banking work with smaller and growing companies, that would help industry grow a lot more.

39:09Right. And I think that was the government's sort of, if you will, mistake, the political hoo-ha that came out at the time of trying to blame the city for everything, was that the government ended up being in a position to decide what were the good products and the bad products. The good ones being in the ring fences, as you put it, the bad ones outside. Right. And I think where the biggest mistake was, was we want deposit insurance. We want Bank of England provision of liquidity. That's taxpayer-backed in the end. And so we should have thought of this as how do we ring fence where our money goes, that it goes to UK businesses instead of overseas, where we get less return for the risk taken.

39:58But what we ended up doing was deciding which products were good and bad for banks. And that's a bad thing for business, and it's a bad thing for government to do. I just want to ask Nicky about this, Nicky Masterman, who's the founder and chief executive of Inspired HR. And Nicky, as we were hearing earlier, you know, you're very aware of the business environment in the northeast of England in particular. What do businesses want from banks? Are they getting what they want from banks? No, no at the moment. We're not seeing the funding. We're not seeing the investment. We know there's challenges.

40:34I mean, certainly within my client base, when I talk to them about the challenges in business, you know, all of the employment costs, recruitment is down. I mean, I'm hoping, obviously, there's still safeguard and protect what this was originally put in place for, which was around, you know, the growth and stability and safeguarding money, the retail and the investment side within banks from that crash. But the reality is small businesses need some money. They've been hammered since the pandemic around everything that has gone on with small limited companies and SMEs and the rising costs of employment jobs going down.

41:10So I'm hoping this will enable businesses that have huge innovation to grow, but also help the job market, which is seeing challenges at the moment due to rises around wage bills and national insurance. So there's some work need to be doing because the UK have amazing SME business owners and their hands are tied at the moment which is challenging. So Peter can you just explain I mean almost is there an example if a business has been thinking you know I've not been able to get the finance from a bank the way I might have been able to decades ago what might change with this what kind of conversation could take place and be productive on the back of these relaxation of rules that wasn't possible before?

41:51Okay. So per your comments that just came up, let's think about it. You've got a growing regional business. And years ago, their local banker might have come to them and say, you know what? So a bank loan might not be right for you, but our investment banking colleagues can go out and raise a 10-year, what we call a private placement or a bond offering or a 20 million or 100 million pound offering to do that and get you long-term capital to help you build your business. In fact, that's just advice. They would raise the money so they wouldn't even be taking the risk. Once ring-fenced banking came in, they weren't allowed to do that because that was considered an investment banking business because it involved advice.

42:44So it tied the hands of bankers dealing with businesses around the country to a more restricted range of products. And I come back to when you started about the politicians and looking at involving in regulation. This was a set of rules that hasn't been copied in any other country that I know of. And it's a long time already. So maybe we ought to look a little more at loosening it up in different ways that's more beneficial to business. Peter, good to talk to you this morning. We will see. Businesses around the country will see whether any of that materializes. Peter Hahn, the Emeritus Professor of Finance and Banking, who's been with us this morning.

43:29your thoughts, 85058. Your thoughts on this story? Been a fascinating one to watch. The UK, Ed Thomas at the BBC, reports on the high street over the last year or so. His investigations into illegal minimarts, his team alongside Rebecca Wern as well, investigating vape shops, barbers. A new£30 million high street organised crime unit has been announced by the government. Here's what locals in Newport had to tell Ed Thomas about illegal shopfronts in their city. These days it's all vape shops, illegal tobacco shops and barber shops. That's what you're seeing. 100 % yeah, I see it. We've got loads and loads of places up there that are selling the illegal cigarettes.

44:13Drugs. What is he doing to this high street? Killing it. Every shop is the same, they're selling the same thing. So you can have a look online, stay tuned right across the BBC throughout the day to hear plenty more on that. Freddie, the state of our high streets is often at the forefront of our minds, isn't it? And this has just been another aspect in recent years where people have really noticed change and it's not the change they want to see. No, absolutely. I mean, the high street is normally the sort of beating heart of a community. and the hollowing out that we've seen over the last 10, 20 years of many community high streets has been very sad to see.

44:58And, you know, when you're then replacing some long-term branded shops with these illegal institutions, it's a pretty sorry story. 85058, do let us know your thinking. Right, we love the story of a bit of an underdog here on Wake Up To Money if they're from Wolverhampton. Always helps, doesn't it? This is what we've got for you right now. Let's roll it back to the year 2000 when five-year-old avid golfer Aaron Rye spoke to the BBC with his dad and they were at the Three Hammers Golf Complex in Wolverhampton. He couldn't actually walk when he started. We bought him a set of plastic clubs. What do you want to be when you grow up?

45:39A racing driver. Well, at the weekend, wasn't quite a racing driver, Everybody did do this. Oh, what pace indeed! Aaron Rye take a bow!

45:58This is what dreams are made of. He played it sensible. Oh, my word. A putt him relive for a very, very long time. So now 31 years old, Aaron Rye winning the US PGA Championship. there was a whole host of firsts alongside of his first major title of his career. He was the first Englishman to get that trophy in over a century. The first non-American to triumph in a decade. Let's sort of roll back to where it all began. Rob Bluck, Golf Academy Director and Head PGA Professional at the Three Hammers Golf Complex in Wolverhampton. He's known Aaron since he was a teenager. Rob, thank you for joining us this morning.

46:38Have you calmed down yet? Yeah, great to join you. Have I calmed down? Not quite. But yeah, it's been a surreal few days. It really has. What has been the link over the years between the Three Hammers Golf Complex and Aaron Rye? Well, yeah, Aaron started at the Three Hammers when he was four years of age. And yeah, listen to that little clip there of him wanting to be a racing driver. It was hilarious. So yeah, he started like many do as a young junior. It's a par three course, very family friendly. and he's progressed on to obviously great things. He's worked very closely under the mentorship of the coaching team, which is Andy and Piers from Me and My Golf.

47:23The guys still work together now. I believe they started together when Aaron was like a 10-year-old child. And it's just such an amazing story. The guys live in the U.S. now. They still follow Aaron, good friends of mine. I took over the running of the facility from the guys like 14 years ago. so it's just the team right it's just such a great story Do you still see him about the place Aaron? Every time he comes back home he lives in the US now but every time he comes back home he does come and see us he refers to it as his happy place we've got an indoor putting green there which is very much like right in the middle of everything and whenever Aaron's back he spends literally hours and hours putting on the green mainly with his father, just chatting, just putting.

48:13He likes the noise around him as well, which is, again, there's a lot of noise around him on Sunday. He wasn't there when he won. So, yeah, he comes back. He spends a lot of time with the academy kids as well. He's always giving, you know, gives up his time, wants to know how our juniors are getting on. And, yeah, he's just a great role model for so many. What do you think Aaron's story and the way he and his family got into golf with you guys at the Three Hammers tells you about what maybe golf needs to do to attract younger players, to keep them with you and to, you know, never mind have dreams of achieving what he's achieved?

48:58Yeah, definitely. I mean, the Three Hammers, no, we're very, yeah, we're incredibly family friendly. That's our business. I mean, we start, just to give you an idea, from our junior academy now. Since, well, over the years it's evolved, the children are getting younger and younger. We start junior sessions now for 18 months. We've got specialist coaches who work with the tiny tots and the parents, using golf as a vehicle really just to have a great time developing their kind of motor skills. And over a period of time, we see in it now, Now we've got an incredible amount of super dedicated youngsters who are achieving great things and they all want to be the next Aaron Rye.

49:38And how is business at the moment when you compare the numbers of people interested in that stuff now to maybe when you first started there? The facility has changed incredibly. I mean, the previous owner of the facility, Ian Bonser, has invested huge amounts into really targeting the families. We've introduced a state-of-the-art adventure golf course now, which you literally cannot miss as you drive in pass the facilities. That's the dinosaur theme one, is it? Yeah, that's the dinosaurs. We got the biggest dinosaurs in to get the families in, just to get them on the hook, just give them a taste of golf.

50:20We've never, ever been busier. It's a special time right now. And Aaron just winning the weekend just capped it all off. How long has that been? Because I have driven down that A449 to my home, Rob, countless times in my life. Was it three or four years ago, all of a sudden, these huge dinosaurs popping up on the main road into Wolverhampton? It is very, very visible. And anybody in Wolverhampton would be aware of the Three Hammers Golf Complex, if the people you know that play golf. Does that really change the sort of dynamic of what you do when it becomes almost a bit more themed than about, you know, the precision and the, I don't know what the word is, the etiquettes around golf?

51:05Yeah, yeah. I mean, we know that there's so many barriers, aren't there, you know, with golf and it can be quite a daunting sport, you know, to get into to begin with. And certainly we changed the business model because we could see what was happening. in you know we we we're not a traditional golf club we've never been a traditional golf club you know there's you know we've pride ourself on yet no barriers everybody is welcome um don't get me wrong we work we work with players of all levels from as i said two-year-old kids all the way through to uh professional golfers themselves uh you know we got you know we're extremely lucky to have great practice facilities uh and a team as well just to try and cater for um you know for everyone's golfing needs.

51:48Nikki, I know football wasn't your thing when we asked you at the top of the programme. You ever been tempted by a bit of dino golf, you know, par three, 18 holes? Yeah, my son does like a bit of crazy golf. I often get dragged onto the crazy golfs when we go on holiday. But I mean, what Aaron has achieved is just history making. He should be so, so proud of himself. And I know his parents will be who he often says, you know, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing without their sacrifice. Yeah, phenomenal achievement by him. I hope he's doing some major celebration on this. He should be. Rob, are you expecting any sort of increased interest?

52:32I know there's been a lot of media interest in the last few days at Three Hammers, but wider than that, do you think it will make a difference to the boys and girls of Wolverhampton about what sport they might choose to do as a youngster? Yeah, I'd like to I'd like to think so. I mean, Aaron's pretty well known within our facility and obviously golfers around the region. But, yeah, this is quite, this is like a really big thing he's just done, right, winning a major. So you'd like to think his name is going to be out there now and anything that he can do. I mean, he's such a humble guy, you know, such a good guy.

53:09I know that sounds kind of cliche. And for someone like that and, you know, the likes of Tommy Fleetwood, I draw so many comparables to the, you know, they are good guys who are going to hopefully bring in the golfers of the future. All world gentlemen was the phrase used by Xander Schuffler, who's one of the world's best golfers as well. And just his graft, Rob, when you read the story about it, I mean, he, you know, works harder than anybody else at his game. Is it a bit of a reminder to everybody rocking up for the next round that they're playing that it could be you? Yeah, I mean, I've got first-hand experience of that with Aaron.

53:48I've got several stories from Aaron. He's been putting at the facility literally until the lights have gone out. We've had to force him out the door. And this is in recent times when he was actually on the PGA Tour. He's come back at Christmastime and he's putting until we want to go home. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. That's it from Wake Up To Money. You can download the podcast every Monday to Friday, so please make sure you subscribe. We'd also love it if you left us a review when you do. Get in touch. Keep the conversation going any time as well on social media. Use the hashtag WakeUpToMoney.

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