Live from London, it's Monday morning ...

19:37Will Bain:Because that's such a key kind of sector for confidence, isn't it? Doing up our homes. Yeah, no, I think it was, I think particularly as the interest rates were coming down, right? And there was a view that borrowing costs would come down this year, however many times the Bank of England would, you know, cut rates. I think there was a lot of optimism. There was a structural, there's a structural shortage of quality tradespeople in Britain. Britain needs nearly a million new tradespeople just to cope with existing demand over the next couple of decades from things like the creation of new housing stock and the renewable energy transition.

20:10So, you know, I think for us, there's a lot of optimism as consumers were starting to think a bit more about that growth period. And this has clearly, you know, created a lot of questions.

20:21Will Bain:Yeah, let's come to the employee side in a moment. Shanti, just come in on that point about where rates are going now, because that is now the balancing act, I guess. exactly what Janvu is talking about between growth and trying to see off what at the moment is still this kind of unknown impact of the inflation from this wall for the Bank of England. Yeah, so the kind of expectation in the market is that we won't have any interest rate cuts this year. So that's changed since the start of the year. I think that will have a big impact on people that have to remortgage. So there's an estimated 1.8 million people that were remortgaging this year, you know, some of them probably did it in January and February, but a million of those were people that had the fixed rate deals from 2021, which would have been on incredibly low rates.

21:10So, you know, so that will be a, you know, a hit to people that are in that camp, you know, they did get five years of very low rates, but, but that will be a barrier. And then you also have, you know, what the government will have to spend if they are, If interest rates are higher and if inflation is higher, the government ends up spending more on servicing the debt. And then, you know, it leaves, creates, you know, a bit of a budget gap where you will have to cut spending, raise more money, you know, depending on how much the interest bill goes up.

21:42Will Bain:The impact of mortgages and mortgage costs, Jambu, on business. Does that also have an impact? Yeah, 100%. I think our business in many ways is a reflection of the overall economy, right? I think when borrowing costs are high and particularly given the stamp duty dynamics in Britain, you know, there's a clear unwillingness to move. Right. And so you end up in this scenario where there's less consumer confidence in that. In some ways, it actually shifts work towards renovation, if that makes sense. And so it's a different kind of work that comes through. But I think the point about if the cost of debt gets higher for the government and that forces another question about tax revenue, I think that is a pretty difficult loop, right?

22:28And I think it's really one that will have a meaningful impact on consumers. Just explain that through why. Well, I think ultimately if the tax burden, particularly on businesses and small businesses, has increased significantly over the last couple of years. If you think about things like the national insurance costs increases and how those were calculated over the last couple of years for small trades businesses, for example, that was significant. I was with one of our customers recently in Bournemouth who has four employees and the NICS increase was nearly$35 ,000 for them. So significant cost increase from that.

23:05So I think it's a really tough balancing act.

23:10Will Bain:And those dynamics then caused by stamp duty, explain what that does and where the sort of threshold for having an impact is, if you like. Well, I don't think it's any one individual thing, right? But the reality is if you're borrowing costs are higher and you've got a stamp duty to complete a transaction, I think it makes you question if the transaction is worth completing. And again, some of that is actually a tailwind for our business because people end up renovating instead of moving. But again, I think that property cycle is such a critical component to the economic engine of Britain. And so what are you seeing at the moment?

23:50Will Bain:I mean, is it proving that tailwind, as you say, or are the sort of the cost pressures coming from the other side of that argument dampening that? Yeah, I think it's mixed, right? It's hard to say where it all shakes out at this moment. But again, I think the uncertainty is high. And I think when you have high uncertainty for both consumers and for small businesses, remember, we represent over 50 ,000 trades businesses across Britain as well. The uncertainty and the cost pressures, not just on this front, but on the materials front, on the labor front, I think the consequences of that have, you know, have potential to be more meaningful.

24:24Will Bain:And what are the answers to that then? Is it just sitting it through? Are there actually things practically that can be done, should be done? I think for me, the two levers that the government has in its immediate control are really about lowering the burden of costs on small businesses in particular, right? I think those small businesses, the lifeblood of the economy, particularly in the trade sector where there's a lot of work that, you know, they can do to improve energy efficiency, to improve, you know, the green energy transition, for example, help on housing stock. Those businesses are questioning whether they should continue to hire, right, and grow their size and grow their number of employees because of some of the cost consequences that they've gone through.

25:07So, you know, I think things like the, you know, the NICS decision, for example, I understand why it happened. But the consequences of that are significant. I think the other piece for me is, is there a scenario where you can actually help lower the burden on starting some of those businesses, if that makes sense? So we know that we need these nearly million new trades across Britain. Can we actually lower the barrier to becoming a tradesperson? Can we lower the barrier to starting a business? I think those are things the government does have the ability to control and I think can influence quickly.

25:39Will Bain:So just break that down. Say me and you wanted to start, I don't know, you pick the trade. We're going to be plasterers, are we, tomorrow. What are our cost burdens? What are those hurdles that you think are stopping people doing that or potentially putting people off maybe doing that? Yeah, I think the reality of starting a business today is it's not easy to figure out exactly what's required to go from I have a skill to I want to be running my own business. And that's things like tools on business education that are lower barrier to entry, managing and making the most of the apprenticeship program, which I think has really good intent but can be reformed, I think, meaningfully.

26:23Finding, you know, startup financing for businesses to help actually get going and take on that risk. I think the last piece is the biggest lever I think the government has on this is around planning, right? And I think if we can get a little bit out of our own way on planning, I think that will be a massive tailwind to this industry.

26:42Will Bain:Shanti, anything you'd add? Yeah, I mean, we all, there's been a lot of studies, the cost to build infrastructure in the UK just takes far more than other places. So anything you can do to ease that, speed things up. I think the government, you know, can look at helping out with costs where it's kind of shorter term. I really hope they'll be targeted about it rather than doing kind of blanket subsidies, because those are incredibly expensive to do. And I think the money is better spent when it is targeted in areas that it's needed. And then I'd say the other thing in general is, you know, some people won't like this, but being credible fiscally will help keep the interest rate costs down.

27:26And I think the government's not in a bad place on that. but it's something where once you kind of lose that confidence you know we've seen it can be quite bad

27:35Will Bain:really interesting well let us know what you're seeing and let us know what you think would help as well or perhaps ease the burden on you too you can text in 85058 is the number to do that or 08085 909693 is the whatsapp should you wish to join the conversation plenty more from Jambu and from Shanti in the second half of the program here on Wake Up To Money, where we are going to talk a little bit more fuel prices. But we're also going to take a look at Saturday Night Live, an American institution coming to the UK at the weekend. Is it going to shake up TV? How did it go down? We'll be chatting about that in the second half of the programme as well.

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29:24Will Bain:Wake Up To Money with Will Bane. Morning. Welcome back to Wake Up To Money on Monday, the 23rd of March. We're our panel this morning, Ashanti Kellerman, co-chief investment officer at Seven Investment Management. And here in the studio with me this morning, Jambu Palaniapan, chief executive of Checker Trade and a former boss at Uber and Uber Eats as well. Do keep your text coming in, 85058 to join the conversation this morning, or 08085 909693 is the WhatsApp. But we touched on it a little bit in the first half of the programme, didn't we, with those oil prices hovering well above$110 a barrel this morning.

29:57Will Bain:What impact is that having still on petrol prices around the UK? Warning from the International Energy Agency, wasn't there, that the crisis, the oil crisis could be as bad in terms of impact as the Ukraine war and the 70s issues in the Middle East put together. While Tim Ray is managing director of multi-loader logistics, which has a fleet of 76. Laurie is also vice chair of the Road Haulage Association. Tim, morning. Great to have you on the programme. Good morning, Will. What's it looking like this week then? Yeah, we've got another week we've got to try and keep on top of the costs. The rising cost of fuel each week is just a constant now.

30:37Yeah, probably looking at an extra£13 ,000,£14 ,000 a week just in diesel alone, just to keep our trucks moving. Wow.

30:44Will Bain:I mean, how do you plan for that? Can you? What kind of things can you do? We engage with our customers. They're very much part of the journey with us. We started speaking to them from the start when this started to happen, and they engaged back, and to be fair to most of them, they were responsive. We've put in place a mechanism which was transparent and clear, and they've accepted that. But I was going to say, presumably, has it obviously obvious impacts on their costs and what it means for their customers down the line as well. Just give us some sort of rough sectors that you kind of work with so people have got an idea.

31:19Well, I work in the intermodal sector, so we just break containers and bringing goods into the country from wherever they come from, from anywhere. We use a combination of road and rail movements, and we can move anything from gravestones through to nappies. Whatever's in the container, we'll move it. Our trucks are doing between 85 ,000 to 100 ,000 miles a week in various locations. So fuel is critical to our business.

31:47Will Bain:Jambu, I presume it's really critical to a lot of your traders on the site of Checker Trade as well. Yeah, it's one of the number one variable cost inputs, right? And I was talking to a customer on Friday and he said he was turning away jobs because they were too far and has a meaningful impact on the margin of the job and particularly on energy efficiency materials. That's really interesting. So they didn't feel they could change the price though because of what you were talking about in the first half of the program, I guess, that we, the consumers, are feeling so price sensitive at the moment.

32:15Will Bain:That's right. I think the consequence of both of those things is spinning on itself. Tim, are you seeing that too? Our customers are supportive on that. You know, four years ago when the Ukraine war started, we had a very similar scenario. We did the same thing then. But they understand it, you know, that if we can't deliver these containers full of whatever they are, then they can't go to the warehouse and they can't then be distributed on from there onwards. Unfortunately, it will knock on down the line, though, and the consumer will ultimately pay for it. This meeting then today to look at the impact on the wider energy sector.

32:51Will Bain:we know they've already had the government this is tim meetings about fuel specifically are there things that you with your association hat on now road is the hall is association hat on now that you would like to see them discussed that that hasn't been discussed yet or would like to see them push on with that has been discussed we need to continue with the uh the mantra we've been talking about we've got to have an essential road user rebate uh and targeted cuts on vat Fuel duty remains unchanged in September, but there needs to be essential certainty going forward. And they've got to sack this planned link to fuel due to RPI from 2027.

33:29Businesses need confidence in what they're doing, and with all these planned escalation in costs, it just doesn't deliver, let alone payment terms from people and governance of the fuel market. We're seeing variance in fuel prices, which are eye-watering, and there's no real rhyme or reason as to why there's such a variance.

33:45Will Bain:Shanti, does some of those things sound like the sort of right kind of targeting that you were talking about before essential road users and things that Tim are talking about? I think the easiest way to do it is probably by by income level. But any scheme you set up is complex in terms of making sure you get it to the right people. If we're doing it at a business level, it probably gets even more challenging. um so like i say it's a trade-off between the kind of cost to administer and time to set up something versus the you know the complexity and it's just easier if you just you know like the government did in 2022 have a have a blanket cap on expenses that goes all across business and consumers i think um i think my my addition is also i think um the the industrial piece of it will matter a lot here right in terms of anybody who's producing materials where the energy cost is a percent of their P &Ls is much more significant.

34:42And I think when that has a negative knock-on impact, remember during the 2022 piece, there were some industrial factories, for example, that shut down and the knock-on effects of that, I think are really significant. I think for consumers, for me, the other piece is, is there a scenario where you can actually help at a more granular level, right? With subsidies or discounts as the panel says i think the cost of administering that and getting that set up um not not the most

35:14Will Bain:straightforward so actually tim as well supporting kind of people out there too quite important potentially as well as in everyday kind of customers to potentially be able to take some of those price rises if indeed they do rise as you suspect they're going to unfortunately you know 80 of everything moves on the truck or back of the van or a lorry and if and if that doesn't move If we can't buy it, it's natural. It will affect prices at the end of it. We support the economy. If we don't move things around, the economy doesn't move. And if our costs are going up, then unfortunately, it's going to cascade down through to the end user.

35:52I think one of the other potential levers is actually less about this topic, but if you can actually reduce some of the burden on consumers in other ways. So we talk about a lot of planned increases and things like maybe council tax, or as the borrowing costs and energy costs potentially go up, there are other levers the government has to potentially reduce the burden on consumers.

36:12Will Bain:So Shanti, thinking outside the box, not just necessarily giving people, as you say, blanket bits of cash to help with their energy bills, but looking at other bits of their finances, other bits of their sort of financial picture, if you like. I suppose. I mean, do we really want another complex budget with all sorts of strange tax breaks? I mean, I think when you look at the budget the government had in November last year, you know, there was a lot of stuff that was dated for 2027, 2028 that they were probably, I'm guessing, hoping they were never going to have to implement. And, you know, with this coming in, you know, you have then the risk of they actually have to figure out how to implement all those things.

36:52So things like the EV mileage levy, you know, the mansion tax, no one's really sure how those will work. and you know there could be other measures that they'll have to have to bring in so i think i'd probably say you know a little bit more simplicity would be better but then you know when you want to encourage consumer behavior in a certain way that's where you end up with having kind of all these different rules and it just gets more and more complex and tim

37:19Will Bain:we've talked a lot about fuel prices here as well i just wondered jambi mentioned sort of previous shocks there. One of the big issues, right, was containers being in the wrong place, basically. Are we seeing that yet? Not directly for the UK's economy. The balance of goods moving out, that hasn't really changed. Containments tend to be a ripple effect, so it won't happen today, but it may be two or three, four or five weeks down the road. In the Middle East, there is some issues with containers not being able to get out of there at the moment but as far as europe and the uk the movement is still free but i say there is a ripple effect and that will at some point start to manifest i am sure tim thanks so much for your time as always really appreciate it tim ray managing director of multi-load logistics which has fleet 76 lorries he was explaining out as well obviously work with the freight sector on rail as well and he's also vice chair of the road haulage association is there a thing in particular jambu a sort of um a thing a commodity, a raw material, when you were saying in the first half of the program, that's been shooting up for your traders?

38:26Will Bain:Are there things that you go, you know, when someone from the team tells you what the price of it is, you go, it's how much? Sorry. Yeah, I mean, I think that the two inputs that have the biggest drive are one, any kind of aggregate, right? So aggregates make up a significant portion of spend for medium to large businesses, certainly for larger building projects, and the consequence of increase in aggregates, which are expensive, difficult to move, require lorries and heavy machinery is one. And two is a lot of the, you know, if you think about boilers, for example, right, those boilers, a lot of them are, you know, manufactured in Germany, in Asia, right?

39:05And so the follow through consequence of those things, yes, I appreciate they may not have fully hit, but we also know these manufacturers are forward looking at their profit margins, right? And will already start to mark existing inventory up as well. So I think those two things make up a significant part of the cost base for trades businesses, which ultimately will get passed on to consumers.

39:25Will Bain:Yeah, not to keep bringing this back to the politics, but that's the kind of important thing, I think, for everybody to take away this morning, isn't it? That it's having an impact now. We've seen impacts, but actually the really big impact is potentially still yet to come. Yeah. And I think it's also unknown, right, in terms of how high that oil price goes and what that means for everything else. Shanti, one of those industries trying to deal with all of that, of course have been travel the travel companies and the big airlines their stocks and shares been the ones the ones that are listed been bouncing around some of the most so far as well haven't they as well and i guess the increases in jet fuel is that the the big driver in that as well as the disruption to to just the middle east as a holiday destination for some of them yeah so jet fuel has has about doubled in europe so that you know that obviously is an input cost that will go up.

40:11Airlines do have programs where they hedge, but they don't hedge that far ahead. So a lot of that will probably be coming off. I think the other thing to think about with travel is, you know, a lot of people did go to the Middle East for holidays. So you've kind of taken out that chunk of the market, as well as all the transit through there, which means you're going to have the same number of people chasing fewer flights and fewer holidays. So I think one area it's probably positive for is probably Europe in terms of, you know, people going to Spain, Portugal, you know, if you were going to go to Dubai, you might shift.

40:47And then also with higher costs, maybe we have a little bit of a bounce back in the UK staycation. If airfares are a bit higher, if, you know, there's just less capacity because we've taken out, you know, we can't go to the Middle East as much. So maybe some small positives there, but probably higher costs for those of us that are looking to go on a holiday.

41:08Will Bain:And will that be, I was going to say, will that be shifting in time for that summer rush, Shanti? Can they make those shifts that quickly? I guess they can. Well, you probably can't put, you know, you can't build loads of new villas or anything like that, but probably you will see some areas in Europe may see a bit more demand as stuff gets diverted elsewhere. And then, you know, for airlines, some of the tickets they will have pre-sold, but they'll probably still have, you know, sales ongoing for, you know, for summer holidays and beyond. So I think the prices will go up a bit. You know, airlines will try to manage it as best they can.

41:42Will Bain:In terms of travel price, I know you were doing it in your old job at Uber Jambo at a much lower level than a flight price. But is there that same sensitivity that you were talking about with trades as well? Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think, again, the consequence of the cost, the cost inputs going up, the cost of labor going up and consumer willingness to pay going potentially, you know, paying going down. I think that combination is the risky mix. We're going to talk some TV in a moment and talk Saturday Night Live. And it's entry into the UK market to try and lighten the load a little bit for everybody this morning.

42:17Will Bain:But you talked about something interesting, just hearing you mentioned labor as well there, mentioned something interesting in the first half of the program, the impact of AI. You know, again, we're talking about your business really being about the nuts and bolts, about people with skills, people with trades. Is AI just you guys? Are they using it? How is AI impacting checker trade? I think structurally there's a lot of opportunity, right? Trades businesses often are doing admin in the evening and weekends, right, on the tools during the day, traveling between job sites. So the idea that technology can help make running a trades business easier is a really interesting premise.

42:54We've invested a lot, both in a software platform for trades to run their business called Trade More, which has been really well received, but also now adding AI features like an AI answer phone, for example, to help trades businesses book jobs and connect with customers. So I think there's high interest and input. And these businesses, particularly because of the labor cost changes of the last few years, are really open minded to using technology and AI to grow.

43:21Will Bain:That's really interesting because sometimes I think it can be when people talk about the impact AI is going to have, it can feel a bit out there, a bit big. But that is such a good practical example, isn't it? You're a small business. You obviously don't have a secretary or someone to, you know, you're not employing someone to answer the phones. The AI can do that and do it cheaply for you. A big fillet, I guess. 100%. And I think there is interest and ambition because the speed at which you can see value from the technology and AI tools is high if you're a small business. And does it drive people long term, do you think, back towards the trades too?

43:57Will Bain:I know we're now talking at that higher level as well, but you were talking about that million needed by when was it you were saying? It's about 2040. Does it, do you think, shift the paradigm for the type of jobs people might go hunting for? 100%. And I think there's a great career to be built in the trades, right? It can be rewarding, it can be lucrative, and clearly a structural tailwind at this moment, given the shortage of trades in Britain. And I don't think, you know, AI is ready to lay your carpet yet. But presumably, it's a challenge to you, right? AI, can it not do, you know, if I ask, you pick your favorite chatbot to give me a load of local plumbers in my area, it can do it pretty quickly.

44:37Yeah, I think the question for me becomes what becomes critical to customers. And I think it's about trust in the future, right? I think trust and the vetting that we put trades members through.

44:48Will Bain:We'll talk people through that because we actually we had a text in from Martin in Cheltenham in the first half of the program when we just moved on to something about oil. So I didn't bring in but Martin asking about exactly that about the vetting. And I think he'd had a so so experience with Checker Trade a little bit said he couldn't get hold of the person that he'd contacted through that? How do you vet them? And when something goes wrong, how do you deal with it? Yeah, sure. So trades go through a vetting process before they're allowed on the platform. It looks at their qualifications, their standards, reviews, quality of work.

45:18And that is a really critical component to ensuring that we have high quality trades on the platform. Communication between consumers and trades. Now we have an app that consumers can use to communicate directly. And that's, you know, increased how jobs are completed on our platform. And I think crucially in the rare event that something does go wrong, we are there, right? And have a team that can help support consumers through rectification. And I think that's really important because, you know, there's peace of mind there. So for me, that's a critical part of what's going to matter in the future.

45:55Because I think, you know, we all go into a chat bot or and type in something that we maybe have knowledge of and it's not quite perfect all the time right and it's getting better and i think we have to assume it will continue to get better but for me that trust is really the core of what will matter really interesting is that the same

46:13Will Bain:in kind of all areas do you think shanty a little bit that balance will move back a little bit we will look for sort of trust and and brands and this kind of early explosion of okay it's going to wipe out everything large language models i'm talking about specifically here i guess might just come back a little bit to the pack. I think human interaction will be incredibly important. I think people are increasingly able to tell what has just been generated by AII and what is truly original thought. So I think that will continue to be valued. I think for big brands, it's actually, it's a bit mixed because if you have incredibly good product research, people may simply rely on that, that research on the quality of the product rather than the brand to signal quality.

47:01So I don't think it's as clear cut, but it's that human element that will endure. And then obviously the ability to make things and build things, which can't be replaced. So, you know, probably, you know, if I were 18, probably the trades looks a lot more attractive as an industry than where I am today in banking and wealth management.

47:20Will Bain:I certainly can feel the same about the media as well. I'm with you in that area, too. Let's stick with the media, though. was a big weekend for it, for conventional TV for sure over the weekend because I don't know whether any of you caught any of this. Live from London!

47:40Will Bain:Early numbers seem to suggest a decent turnout for Saturday Night Live, the UK edition. We've got the right panel this morning, haven't we? How big a issue, Jambu Lanshanti, is this in the States, this programme? I think it's a cultural zeitgeist, right, in the US. And I think it is obviously evolved over many years, right? I think nearly 50 years of incredible sort of comedy and great stars who have come out of it, right? If you think about all of the, you know, the great people and the famous sketches. Will Ferrell, Adam Sandler. Eddie Murphy and many others, right? So it's in the U.S. I think culturally really relevant.

48:18Shanti? Yeah, I mean, my parents love it. Every time they're over here, they're like, oh, have you watched Saturday Night Live? I haven't, so now I can say I have. I think the thing we forget is that program's 50 years of iconic moments, and we don't remember the flops. And there have been a lot of flops in the US version. So it's probably a bit too much to expect in one night we're going to have all of a sudden all these iconic things. You have to give it time for it to build up and have the flops and the big hits.

48:51Will Bain:Well, we set that cultural backdrop up because that's the reason why. They've taken a punt on it here in the UK. Alice Enders joins us well. Alice, media analyst at Enders Analysis. Morning, Alice. Good morning. Well, let's come to it then, because Shanti's kind of, I think, Shanti, you've shown your hand a little bit of to what you made of it. What did you make of it? Well, I think the general view was it could have been a whole lot worse, which is interesting. We have three American voices on your programme right at the minute. I think those of us who are on are also British, but I think, you know, it's the general way of dealing with these things in the UK is to make nice noises about how no doubt it will evolve as it beds in and so on.

49:41I actually thought what was really interesting about it was that it was produced, you know, by Lorne Michaels, the executive producer, and he obviously made the choices of what skits were going to be sort of hits, if you like. and I think it would have really been better if there had been more of a presence of a UK producer who would be able to anticipate audiences in advance. To be honest, I thought the Sir David Attenborough, sorry, they didn't call him Sir David Attenborough, but I will, Last Supper was so tasteless because, of course, there's Sir David who is of an age and who has been very much a British icon.

50:34And there he is hosting Last Supper, so to speak, of dearly departed British icons, Winston Churchill, Isaac Newton, Lady Diana, etc., Freddie Mercury, and inexplicably, none of these dearly departed respond to the scintillating potential to opine on what makes Britain great. Instead, they squabble over starters and then break up for group sex. Now, I just was quite surprised at the depth of, or the lack of depth, if you like, of this particular sketch. But I would say there were others that were equally curious. I think mainly those of us who have lived here and who have children here and have brought them up are very familiar with the great depth of British comedy.

51:37I didn't feel that much of it was on show, but of course if you have a U.S. executive producer who decides to thematically approach the show as this particular episode anyway, as Britain's basic failure syndrome because of the self-deprecating nature of the humor here, then, you know, you're going to get what you saw. And so I just felt, you know, I haven't seen so much British comedy and British comedians and so on. And, you know, I just felt there was just not an awful lot of that on show. But as you know, as many people have said, you know, no doubt it will bed in and improve.

52:20Will Bain:And what about from a kind of business perspective? that someone is, although not brand new, obviously, as an idea, something new here, breaking out of a format? Well, there's nothing new here. SNL US has been available on Sky for years, and the format itself doesn't drive the delight in the show. It's the talent and so on, the writers and everything. And, you know, of course, you know, it's true, SNL US has had some skits that were flops, But, you know, of course, it's, you know, you just simply, it's not the role of the cast to remedy the writing and the choice of skits and so on. And I don't think the format makes it successful.

53:12It's the team and so on. We have lots of that going on anyway here in the UK.

53:18Will Bain:Jambi, you watched it specially for us. So what did you make of it? I thought it was well-intentioned, but I'm not sure the way to endure yourself to the British public is to make fun of David Edinburgh. You were there with Alice as well. I mean, what do you sense, Alice then, is it going to be one and done, this series then, do you think, in 20 seconds? Well, sorry, we have another seven episodes to go. Yeah. So there'll be a lot of heavy lifting for those of us who are called upon to watch it. 200 ,000 people tuned in, which is not a huge amount. I mean, of course it's been heavily pumped and marketed and so on.

53:58I also wonder, do we really have to have Tina Fey affronting the show when we have so many incredible...

54:06Will Bain:And we've got some British actors coming up, haven't we, on it? Alice, thanks so much for your time this morning. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Wake Up To Money with Will Bain.

54:18Will Bain:New teams. New rules. A new era. Formula One returns. The engines are revving. People are getting excited. Hear every race live on BBC Sounds. It's all ice and the lights. Hands for the floor. On 5 Live Sports.

54:48Thank you.

55:18Thank you.

55:48Thank you.

56:18Thank you.

56:48Thank you.

57:18Thank you.

57:48Thank you.

58:18Thank you.

58:48Thank you.

59:18Thank you.

59:48Thank you.

1:00:18Thank you.

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