Settling the tab?

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0:30at Whole Foods Market. Odoo, providing tools for businesses across industries into one fully integrated platform. Whatever your business needs, Odoo is committed to providing it. Learn more at odoo.com. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. Hello, morning. Welcome to Wake Up To Money. The government announces a review this morning of the way pubs and hotels are valued for their business rates. We'll take a look at how it will work and ask whether it can ease the pressure on hospitality. Also on the programme today, as Canada vows to respond to new US tariffs dollar for dollar, we'll hear from a Canadian business on the potential new trade war ahead.

1:11And there's a new weight loss treatment in town. It's a tablet called Fandeo. And we'll hear from Eli Lilly, the company behind it, a little later on here on Wake Up To Money. Wake Up To Money with Will Bane. Morning. Welcome to Wake Up To Money on Monday the 24th of August. Just gone five o 'clock in the morning. We're with you this morning on what appears to be a very busy morning. We've got news about calls for more energy support as we head towards the autumn. Yes, like it or not, we are heading there quicker than you expect. We will hear about Shein and its plans to list its shares in Hong Kong.

1:45And yeah, we will have Eli Lilly, someone from the UK operations on talking about this new weight loss drug pill. And we will also try and explain what is changing potentially with those business rates or how those business rates will be looked at again for hospitality businesses. So plenty to come throughout the next hour here on the programme. And as always, we'd love your thoughts on any of it should you want to give us your opinion over the next hour. 85058 is the text number to do so. 08085 909693, the WhatsApp, if you'd prefer to get in touch that way. We'll do it all, as always, with a panel of guests as well.

2:18Jane Foley back with us on the programme. Jane, the head of FX Strategy for the bank, Rubber Bank. Morning. How are you? Busy weekend? Oh, not too busy, actually, which is quite nice. But I'm very well. Nice to be here this morning. Feels like it's ramping up, doesn't it? The news again a little bit here. We've got tariffs swinging back in, calls for sort of energy support, the Shein IPO. You've got kind of the gamut here. You can tell summer's coming to the end and people are heading back to work potentially. It is indeed. And a lot of focus on central banks too, with the Jackson Hole symposium at the end of the week too, and a gathering of central bankers over in Wyoming.

2:52So that too, pretty interesting for markets. Yeah, absolutely. We'll get Jane's take on that as well, because it all links in with what we were talking about and Scott Besson and those bonds through the back half of last week on the programme. Alongside Jane for the next hour, Peter Schrieversman, also back with us. Peter, the co-owner of Hotel Anfield, commercial director of Hotel Wrexham. Morning, how are you? Morning, Will. I'm very, very good. How are you? Enjoyed that very late penalty, I should have imagined, yesterday. Yeah, I have to say that's not the way I saw the season starting as a Liverpool supporter.

3:24I'm very nervous again but here we go Saved by the top knot I tell you what was extraordinary what did you make did you see it on the TV yesterday? I did, yeah Did you see the start the Kevin Keegan tribute before the game kicked off? No, I missed that for childcare reasons the usual Yeah, no I mean absolutely amazing if people haven't seen it incredible obviously Kevin Keegan a legend of both clubs Liverpool and Newcastle and an incredible kind of display before the game the banners in the Gallagher end with quotes from Kevin Keegan that you can see a really quite moving video that John Murray who was commentating on the game yesterday well I don't think John posted himself but he's certainly become the star of it amazing if you go on the five live Instagram what Instagram Twitter etc it's online as well now you can see a bit of that why don't you kick us off Peter giving us a taste of uh we'll talk about it in a bit more detail the business rates later on but um how welcome that it's going to be looked at again by the government yeah i mean business rates um starting on a very light subject here obviously business rates is a is a massive driver of the cost that is making hospitality and other industries such as retail and the high street borderline unworkable for many so we will we will touch on it obviously in much more detail but in Liverpool alone the top 80 odd hotels that are part of something called the accommodation bit their business rates went up by approximately 89 % on average this April I'll give you more details in a bit but it's it's it needs looking at something when terribly wrong between the old in the new government and I welcome the news.

5:14Jane, it does seem like it's going to be a review that's going to stretch right out into next year and yet we had been promised, this government was the latest government to do it when it came into power in 2024, but we have heard about people promising to look at business rates in the round for a while. Is it a potential drag on growth across the board, do you think, the system we have right now? Well, it is pretty complex And I think what we've seen really over the last year or so is a lot of pushback from various types of businesses saying, look, we've got a business, a complicated business rating system.

5:51And then on top of that, of course, when Rachel Rees was chancellor, that there were higher minimum wages, there was an increase in business, national insurance. And I think the combination of all of these has really led to an awful lot of businesses saying, look, you know, we need a review of this. We need some breathing space. And of course, Andy Burden has promised to try and revitalise town centres. And so this is part of that pledge. Yeah, really interesting. I know a lot of you from the texts over the months work in and around the hospitality sector. So if you're up and about this morning, perhaps getting ready or even just finishing off from last night, 85058, let us know what you think.

6:33We'll chat about that at the beginning of the second half of the programme. So we'd love to have some of your thoughts when we dive into it. How necessary the look again at this, as Peter was saying, and what impact has it been having on you? 08085 909693 is the WhatsApp if you'd prefer to get in touch with us that way. Jane, she and them, mentioned them right at the top of the programme. Been a kind of will they, won't they for some time and also where they in terms of listing these shares. We finally have the announcement this morning looking for a valuation of about$27 billion. And it's going to be in Hong Kong.

7:05It is. And, you know, the where they is really because of regulatory pushback to do this in, say, the U.S. So it's finally going to be in Hong Kong, which does make some sense, because originally, of course, this business was set up in China, even though now it's headquartered in Singapore. But what's really quite interesting is what are they going to do with the money that they're going to raise? And they say that this is going to be invested really in tech. And that, of course, is really crucial, for instance, if we consider Amazon, in order to get these goods very quickly to the consumer. And so another interesting development really in the tech space for us all as consumers.

7:44Yeah, the valuation itself then, quite a long way back from what certainly the Financial Times and others were reporting when they began this process, what, a year ago, that this company might be valued at. Does that tell us, I'm going to talk a lot of geopolitics and tariffs shortly because we're going to be joined by a Canadian business organisation in a few minutes on the programme, Jane. But does that tell us about how this company has become the latest to kind of be, I guess, very much in the spotlight of the trade war, sort of an example, being used as an example, almost a football to be kicked around in the trade war between the US and China?

8:17Yeah. And again, we get back to that regulatory pushback against perhaps IPO-ing over in New York, for instance, or London. There is a lot more uncertainty with respect to tariffs towards trade wars. We do see this here. and quite simply it will be more difficult for a company with Chinese roots to perhaps really extend its supply chain through the west and I think this is something that all of us got to consider because what it actually means for all of us is prices will be a little bit higher in this environment than perhaps they were when we had this sort of globalisation environment for 30 years and so more stunted supply chains higher prices is a function of this for us all higher prices than there would have been otherwise i should say peter that's a really good point isn't it and i think it's an interesting one every time we talk about well particularly it seems chinese firms at the moment whether they be cars or solar panel suppliers or here in the retail space as well i get that stuff's got to be safe obviously that's the first and primary job of a regulator but is it really the regulators jobs and politicians jobs to kind of step in and tell kids you can't buy it from this country because we've decided we don't like them at the moment yeah i would say if we have a look at cars i remember maybe a year or two ago we talked about tiktok and the united states view on tiktok and data security and i always had to chuckle as a maybe a slight outsider in terms of my technical knowledge but i thought to myself we all get hung up about some 15 16 year old kids doing little clips of them doing silly dances on tiktok and the data security but we don't seem to worry about plugging our mobile phones with all of our personal data all of our search history all of our contact details all of our online banking into our brand new Chinese car.

10:20And I always felt that coupled with the fact that the Chinese produce a majority of the batteries and sell them to their own manufacturer for price X, while European manufacturers, particularly German ones, obviously with my German hats on, have to buy them for price Y, a much higher price making the cars less competitive. So I think regulators, it feels to me, But again, I'm not, I'm a hospitality and a property and a football person. But it feels as if regulation has got a role to play in this to a degree. Yeah, Jane, getting that balance, though, as well, what kind of, you know, keeping prices under control for what is, you know, Sheehan is selling to people, predominantly younger people, predominantly without as much income, right, as well.

11:11These are the type of people, just to use the phrase that you cribbed from the prime minister as well. that the government is trying to give breathing room to, that I think it's sort of seen across the board feel like they need breathing room in their personal finances, making stuff they buy online more expensive doesn't seem a fab way about going around that. No, but I think this is about getting the balance right. I mean, not necessarily with respect to fast fashion, but if we look at a lot of goods made in China, they have been done with unfair government subsidies, for instance, and then they're competing with goods made in Europe, at least is what the Europeans would say, that haven't got the same degree of subsidies and therefore it can be jobs that are lost, for instance.

11:57And if we take this argument to things like steelmaking, you know, China is the largest manufacturer of steel in the world and the cheap steel that's coming in is or has affected, for instance, steel production in Europe and that is a matter of national security, potentially. So there's lots of different facets to this. But ultimately, there is this pushback really from the West about trying to make this fairer. Yeah, really interesting. Really well explained. A quick last thought then as well. Do you sense, given everything both of you kind of said, actually, Jane, that those in the LSE today won't be sitting going, oh, gosh, here's what we could have won looking at this IPO, that actually this was the right choice, basically, to sit this one out.

12:44and not try and welcome Xi into a list here in London? I think it's very sensitive right now because it was founded in China and I think this was the right decision in the right environment at this time. But clearly, you know, you've got to ask, would this decision have been made the same way 10 years ago? When David Cameron was taking President Xi down the football and buying him pints in the pub and that kind of stuff. Precisely. So it is indicative of winds of change, you know, and how the geopolitical environment really is right now. Yeah, well, geopolitical environment is absolutely something we're going to be talking about in just a moment because I'm afraid the trade war seems to be ramping back up again, certainly between neighbours, US and Canada.

13:26We've got a Canadian business standing by to speak to us in just a moment.

13:33So we were building to this, weren't we? Friday was the deadline after President Trump extended it for the US and Canada to strike a new deal around tariffs. It collapsed at the last minute, very late Friday night in North America, early Saturday morning on our time and through the weekend, being kind of extraordinary language from both sides back and forth with Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, former governor of the Bank of England here, saying he will respond dollar for dollar in terms of any new tariffs from the United States. Well, Laura Jones has kindly stayed up way into the night for her to speak to us.

14:08Laura is the president and the chief executive of the Business Council of British Columbia, who's actually on business at the moment in Washington, D.C. Laura, morning from us. Evening to you. Thanks so much for hanging on for us. No problem. Good morning to you. So did you have a little bit of hope going into Friday? I think many Canadians had hope going into Friday and it looked like things were, you know, kind of headed definitely in the right direction. But we've also learned that anything can happen in these negotiations. And unfortunately, the negotiations went south. And I know a lot of Canadians woke up on Saturday morning very disappointed that there was no deal.

14:53deal. Having said that, I think there's very wide, there was a survey out today showing very wide support for the Prime Minister's position, essentially, that no deal is better than a bad deal. Well, I was going to ask you exactly that. Do you agree with that sort of survey sentiment? Yeah, I think that the Prime Minister has the support of the majority of Canadians, I think it was about 75 % agreed that no deal is better than a bad deal, despite the fact that two out of five Canadians are worried about their jobs as a result of the escalating trade tensions between Canada and the US. But we simply can't sign on to deals that undermine our sovereignty, or that put major sectors at risk of being uneconomic over time.

15:42That's not a good deal. What did you personally and members see then as those kind of red lines, those non-negotiables, I guess, the areas where the US was trying to go too far? Well, it certainly sounds like from what the prime minister said, that there were some things around language, for example, that would have definitely undermined our Canada is the bilingual. So this was the use of French, by the way, wasn't it? The use of French. In Quebec, the French speaking part of Canada. That's right. Canada is a bilingual country and Quebec is an important part of Canada. and that would be a bright line for most Canadians to put any of that on the table.

16:21But it also sounds like there was a lot of nickel and diming sort of last minute things that went in that when you added that all up, it just became uneconomic and really not the deal that we thought we were headed towards. And so I think probably it was that and making things uneconomic. And listen, we're not talking about free trade anymore. That's one of the things that I think Canada was prepared to accept some level of tariff, but not any level of tariff. Perhaps zoom in first to your members from the state of British Columbia, and then maybe we'll take the kind of wider sweep as well if there's anything that doesn't fall in there.

17:03But which sectors would be most impacted for members, for people as well? not okay with some of the geography of Canada. You are a state that borders the United States. Yeah. British Columbia is the westernmost province that borders with the US. The tariffs apply to things like manufacturing, agro-food products. But to give people an example of some of what's included, I mean, hockey sticks, fishing poles, cement, it's a wide range of different goods. Some of the products that go into baby food, making baby food or baby formula, furniture, lighting, you know, there's just a wide range of things that are covered, wine, cider, wide range of things that are covered.

17:52But it's about 5.5 % of the exports from Canada into the U.S. Despite that, that number, you know, it's about 28 billion Canadian, 5.5 percent. But that puts a lot of jobs in Canada at risk. Now, I just want to say one other thing, though, by way of context. This relationship between Canada and the U.S. does rest on very long and strong foundations. So obviously people have there's a lot of friendships, working relationships, business relationships, family across the borders, Canadians vacation in the US, although less now than before this all started, Americans vacation in Canada. So, you know, this current turbulence that we're facing, the president being enamored with this deeply destructive economic policy is a recent phenomena.

18:48And fortunately, we do have this long and strong relationship and we're hopeful that we'll be able to get back to the table as a result are you seeing that wither away a bit are you seeing people who had strong you know working as you say working relationships perhaps across the border presumably people can even in some parts of the the state and washington state just below you in the united states presumably a bit like we see in other bits of the us and canada right people commute across though that that boundary or work across that boundary shop across that boundary as well are you starting to see people i mean stuff Like when you're talking about ice hockey sticks being included in this, I mean, that just feels like presumably that is not a gigantic economic issue across the United States.

19:28That feels like it's sort of almost deliberately provocative of people starting to say, hang on a minute, these people don't seem to like us very much. Well, we know a lot of Canadians have stopped traveling to the US as a result of some of these threats. So absolutely, it's having hopefully a short-lived impact on the relationship. But there's no question when, you know, when a friend doesn't act like a friend, that affects the relationship. And, you know, one thing about the hockey sticks, the wine, the fishing poles that we're talking about, a lot of these measures now are going to hit small and mid-sized businesses very hard.

20:07And, you know, that's also deeply troubling, I think, because these tariffs are just they're punishingly high, 50 percent. And, you know, the question now on many Canadians' minds is where does this go from here? Do we get back to the table? That seems to be certainly what Carney wants, I think, because the counter tariffs aren't set to take effect until after Labor Day. So that gives a little bit of a runway here to hopefully go back to the table. Or do things escalate and Canada puts in place its counter tariffs after Labor Day and then the U.S. potentially responds from there? In the interim, presumably some of those businesses you're talking about, Laura, will need support, won't they then?

20:49As in in the medium term, in the short term. And I suspect the government is very focused on looking at that question because there will be many business owners losing sleep over this right now. Jane, just coming at that point and the potential, I guess, another headwind, as you economists and city people like to say in terms of what's going on in the global economy at the moment. Headwind is one of our favorite words. That's right. It absolutely is a headwind and hopefully a short lived one. But I mean, we knew this was going to be a really rough ride because, as I said, the president is just enamored with this deeply destructive policy.

21:32And what's super problematic about it is it hurts consumers and producers on both sides of the border. So it's a real head scratcher as to why, you know, this, despite the fact that there's evidence that, you know, many U.S. producers are suffering, particularly farmers, for example, and that the U.S. is now being seen as a less reliable trading partner and that's affecting things. But despite that, despite consumers in the US facing higher prices, there seems to be a determination to persist with this kind of policy. And it's creating uncertainty all around the world. Laura, really appreciate your time.

22:13Thanks so much for staying up so late for us. And yeah, good luck with the talks going forward. Anytime. Thank you. Laura Jones there, the President and Chief Executive of the Business Council of British Columbia, speaking to us live from Washington, D.C. Jane, just on that in terms of the headwinds point as well. I mean, goes into the wider inflation picture in the US, which I think sort of tees you up to talk about what was going on with the central bank meeting in Jackson Hole as well. You know, there's so much within, you know, that you can see within this trade talks between Canada and the US.

22:47And the first thing is that one of the reasons it broke down is that the US was seeking exclusive access to Chinese, sorry, to Canada's critical minerals. And that comes back to the bigger things about trade wars, because what Trump discovered a year ago was China has a strong hand because it has lots of production facilities, processing facilities for critical minerals. And it held the West over a barrel and said, look, you know what, we've got these minerals. So the US wanted to have exclusive access to Canada. Canada said, no, we want to be able to sign trade deals with everybody else. So this geopolitical theme keeps on coming back.

23:26And with the U.S., you know, yeah, tariffs, they raise prices for U.S. consumers. So it is inflationary. And we do have inflation data for the U.S. this week. And U.S. inflation has been above target for quite a long time now. And then there's the budget impact because of the high court striking down last year's tariffs in the U.S. For the last three months, the US Treasury has been giving massive rebates to companies. Now, that has meant that the US budget deficit looks really overblown. And that is one of the reasons that the markets have been jittery last week, because yields, as we've seen, have gone up.

24:08And that's not good news for the US either. And Peter, it feels like the type of things that actually consumers would start noticing about, you know, This is not small goods where, you know, 15 % or whatever, the price just doesn't look that much different. You know, T-shirts or small plastic goods or, you know, kitchen tongs, the type of stuff that we've heard coming from China before. When you're talking about a car having 50 plus percent tariffs on it and it's being built, you know, sometimes like five miles, 10 miles over the border from you. So you are probably buying it from that part of the supply chain.

24:41We know a lot of the big American car makers are just over the border in Canada. that's the type of stuff that people do notice isn't it no absolutely i mean when i i read the hockey stick um in several outlets and obviously it feels to me that that is um being used as one of those um products that means a lot emotionally to both countries right i mean hockey is a massive sport on both sides of the border and therefore it's quite an emotional and quite an essential product, even though, as you say yourself, it's not a particularly big one in economic terms, but it's one in emotional terms, which, by the way, leads me to an observation that I was wanting to make, which is that Canada and US have got the longest land border, five and a half thousand miles.

25:30I quickly Googled it in the world. And therefore, on both sides, these people are closely connected they're effectively cousins in a way they live in a way they they coexist and and so when we talk use words like the deal a deal here a deal there i know it sounds very macho very um this this is um what we want but a good deal would be if i went um to the shop and i found my favorite coffee bean buy one get one free because a deal is something in a day-to-day life while if these big people some of them luckily only have a very limited shelf life left and I'll let you guess who I mean by this on which side but but they make decisions that impact normal families normal people on both sides of the border for quite a significant amount of time at a time when they cannot afford it and and that is what I'm always find so troubling that we utilize that we make decisions not maybe us through here on on the program this morning but some powerful people that have got lasting and significant impact not just on people's families right here right now but also potentially on the relationship with one another that might outlast the people in power and i cannot think of much worse than having canada and the US having long-lasting relationship issues because they are two wonderful countries in many, many different ways.

27:00And I've just come back from the US, from the pre-season of Liverpool Football Club and had an absolute whale of a time out there. And I don't want to feel that one day that I can't do that anymore out of solidarity. Yeah, absolutely. I think Peter's line gave up there, but you could hear the point he was making. absolutely completely agree on that and we're sort of trying to drive at that a little bit with Laura about what the impact on some of those communities might have been having been to lots of those places for the world service myself where people literally are driving across the border you know to go and have a cup of coffee and then driving back over again what that does to community relations we'll try and recover Peter's line we've still got Jane we've got lots to talk about as well in the second half of the program we're going to be talking about business rage so I hope we'll have Peter back for that because it's changes to his sector hospitality that are being announced by the government this morning and we'll have Eli Lilly with us talking about their new GLP-1 pill called Fandeo.

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28:56Wake Up To Money with Will Bain. Morning, welcome back to Wake Up To Money on Monday the 24th of August. Our panellists morning, Peter Shreversman, the co-owner of Hotel Anfield and commercial director of Hotel Wrexham and Rabobank's head of FX Strategy, Jane Foley. Do keep your texts coming in. I'm going to weave in some that you've kindly sent in on business rates in the conversation we're going to have now as well, because new support for pubs and hotels could be on its way as the government launches an independent expert led review into business rates for the sector. business rates expert Jerry Schroeder is due to report back by the end of March next year in time for any recommendations to be considered before the next revaluation.

29:39The government has invited those in the sector to have their say on how they are affected. We've got Jane and Peter. Peter obviously in the sector and John Weber joining them as well now this morning. John is the head of rating at the property consultancy firm Colliers. Morning John, thanks for being with us. Morning Will. Lots of governments have talked about doing this then. What do you reckon that there finally, it sounds like, potentially, maybe, at the end of a review, going to look at this? yeah it's interesting really because obviously i know jerry very well and i've heard him on on your show over many years uh every time there's a consultation announced on business rights so um it is a little bit like groundhog day i think the difference is that you know there is an independent uh person in jerry uh heading this which i think is is refreshing i think the i think the worrying thing though and i think jerry might have boxed himself into a little bit of a corner is this is talking about the 29 revaluation and any changes to the system that need to take then and quite honestly um on the current run rate that'll be another 2 000 pubs will have closed by the time this any any changes come into effect and i think that's the concerning thing peter coming on that because right at the top of the program you gave us a couple of little stats on what had changed already so the point that john is rightly making here is that this this review would only look at the next revaluation as we said in the in the introduction and so you've got this 20 support right now just for pubs on the current revaluation but presumably huge changes for across your members in liverpool hospitality and all that kind of stuff as well already from the previous one the one that that's happened that we've been talking about and that people have heard us talk about on the program in the last few months yeah absolutely i mean if your business rates have gone up by say 89 90 percent in april which is the average of every hotel here in the great city of liverpool then even if you were entitled to a 20 rebate of that that would still not touch the sites now if everything else was equal and the trading conditions were great and money was pouring in left right and center then i guess one could potentially stomach that but against the wider economic picture where customers have less money and cost, like the energy cost, is still sky high, particularly in the European comparison.