Strait-ening out?

26:15We need to see the government provide clear and consistent policies that give investors the confidence to finance the UK's future. James Alexander there, CEO of the UK Sustainable Investment and Finance Association. Still with us, waiting patiently, Penny Hughes. Lots more to talk to you about, Penny, chair of the luxury retirement brand Riverstone Living. But you are somebody who's sort of made a halfway house switch, aren't you? You're driving a hybrid, I think. Yes, that's right. It suits me well. How are you finding it? Oh, I love it. For short journeys, local journeys, obviously you're on e-power.

26:52But if you're going on longer journeys, then you're not worried about the range. So it kind of does away with that range anxiety that so many people talk about. It does indeed. Laura, James Alexander mentioned investor confidence there. And this is a really tricky area, isn't it? Because these big companies have invested just absolutely eye-watering amounts. what's the general mood among investors when it comes to that EV transition? I think there's two points here. James was talking about the government changing policy or watering policies down and that is not good for businesses, any sort of business, if there is change in policy and then they have to adapt or to change to that.

27:35But I do think this is probably a reflection of the lack of demand And the government is recognising demand is growing, but it's not fast enough to meet the mandates to actually get 80 percent of new car sales to be electric by 2030. So they are considering weakening it. And car makers and unions actually have warned that there are job losses and plant closures if they are penalised for not meeting these targets. So I think it's a bit of a halfway house for the government in terms of trying to appease the car makers by reducing the targets. And Charge UK, which represents 40 companies that install and operate charging points, they say that this kind of thing impacts how investors will view the UK more broadly beyond just EVs, that we can't be trusted to stick with long term plans.

28:26Do you think that's fair? I think that's a fair, I do think that's a fair point. But what the government is trying to do is make sure that we have a robust car industry and good consumer demand. So you have to balance these two out, I'm afraid. OK, well, we heard a message from Johnny who says, Morning, Fliss. I'm a Sparky based in Suffolk. I'll never get an EV. Don't earn more than 40 grand. Network of charging infrastructure isn't there. And it's just dieselgate all over again. My mate is a second-hand car dealer and won't touch them as they depreciate so much and are written off on a whim. Keep up the great work.

29:01Thank you, Johnny. Keep your thoughts coming this morning. And Gaz says, just on the EV decision, why more consultation? Methinks it just feeds into Keir Starmer's procrastination about absolutely everything. These texts are coming in as we go. Keith says, regarding EVs, it makes sense to extend the target date for EV transition. 2030 had always been unrealistic. I can see the central boiler target will go the same way. Keep your thoughts coming.

29:53conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Host unforgettable backyard barbecues with savings from Whole Foods Market.

30:39Get the good times going with made-in-house chicken or pork sausages and ready to cook kebabs for hassle-free flavor. Grab tasty flatbreads and their new balsamic chicken salad in the prepared foods department. Keep things fresh with organic red cherries, strawberries and peaches at their peak. And stock up on bug sprays and sun care must-haves. Make your summer sizzle at Whole Foods Market. Wake Up to Money with Felicity Hanna. Good morning. If you're just joining us on Wake Up to Money, then welcome to the week. We're having, well, a lot of conversations this morning about the news breaking overnight that Iran and the US seem to have reached some sort of agreement.

31:21We're also talking about EVs this morning. And as always, a lot of you have a lot of opinions. Somebody who doesn't give their name just says, EV owners are the motoring version of vegans, which I feel you're saying critically, but I suppose could be taken either way. Eddie and Hitchin says, I think EVs are the Betamax of the car world. Hydrogen will take over. And David in Pembrokeshire says, outside the densely populated metropolitan areas, the infrastructure isn't there to support EVs. Unfortunately, most of the decision makers live in densely populated metropolitan areas and don't have a clue what happens outside there.

31:59And then we'll have one more from Blue Sky. Somebody with the username Cyberspace says, we bought one earlier this year. It's great. We drive a lot of short journeys so you don't worry about ruining your engine or exhaust. We have a home charger and even on a bog standard tariff, It works out way cheaper. Keep your thoughts coming. You know what to do. You can text me on 85058. You can send me a WhatsApp message on 08085 909693. Let me know what you think about this as well. The G7 summit begins in France today. Keir Starmer will be hoping that discontent at home from within the Ministry of Defence will not be distracting from his trip abroad.

32:39You probably remember last week, let me just remind you, on Thursday, the government's much-delayed defence investment plan was deemed so unsatisfactory by the then Defence Secretary John Healy that he resigned from the Cabinet. The Armed Forces Minister Al-Khans soon followed. What does this all mean for the businesses that are making those investments in our military capability? Let's talk to Steve Beddington, who's CEO of the Bristol-based military technology company Q5D, who's been waiting for the government's plan for a while. Steve, good morning. It looks like you might be waiting a while longer.

33:17Unfortunately, it does, yes. How are you feeling? What does this kind of upheaval mean for a company like yours? Well, it's the uncertainty. So obviously, we want to invest. And it's very difficult to invest, hire new people and build the equipment and stuff that we need with this level of uncertainty. And yeah, we would like some surety that things are going to happen. Do you have any idea, has anyone sort of said how long you might now be waiting for the defence investment plan? Because we've been sort of hearing news over the weekend, I think on Laura Koonsberg yesterday, that the new defence secretary might just be sort of revisiting it.

34:03I'm not sure. We were all hoping that it would be out before the NATO summit because the whole thing's kind of embarrassing for the year for the prime minister. I think it would be sensible if they could make a positive announcement before that. So that was my assumption. But who knows now? What does it mean for where you do business? Are you seeing sort of companies like yours and your own company turning to other parts of the world for investment to Europe, to Asia, to the US? Absolutely. Yeah. So almost all our sales are in the US currently, both to the primes and to the US army itself. I mean, they obviously have a lot more money, but they're also set up to deal with innovative small companies like us.

34:43And our entire sales team is actually focused on Europe rather than the UK at the moment. Can you elaborate on that? When you talk about America being more set up to deal with smaller companies like yours, you sort of almost think bigger army, bigger country, bigger, dealing with the bigger firms. But you think that's not the case? Well, they certainly have more money and they always will. But that's not really the point. The point is about their procurement systems. They are able to find ways to work with small companies, small innovative companies that are developing technologies that they're interested in.

35:18They're willing to take the small risk and the people making the procurement have the authority to make those kinds of decisions in a way that's not the case in the UK where everything's so much more bureaucratic. How much might the peace deal, the planned peace deal with Iran and the US affect things? Is it likely to help? Maybe on focus, but otherwise, I think it shouldn't make any difference. You know, we've seen how things are changing. You know, both the Ukraine war and the Iran war were dominated by drone warfare. And I'm hoping that message has got through and that will change the way they're going to do their procurement systems, because they're not up to it at the moment.

36:02And Q5D recently won its first contract with the US Army supporting drone manufacturing in particular, didn't it? What does the UK need to do to replicate more of how the US kind of deals with businesses like yours in a situation where we don't necessarily have absolute buckets of money sitting around waiting to be poured into any part of our spending? I think it is less about the money and more about the systems. You know, procurement in the UK is over-specified. You know, they'll put a specification in which is too tight and too inflexible for innovative technology. You know, in drones, things change every month and you've got to have a system which enables that to happen.

36:46And, you know, some kind of procurement which locks you in place for multiple years to exactly the same platform is not going to be suitable. And so all of that needs to change. And you've got to allow the people making the procurement to be able to make their own decisions, make some level of risk. Steve Beddington, CEO of Q5D. Thank you very much indeed for joining us on Wake Up to Money. Thank you. Well, there's lots the government's considering this week. The Prime Minister is also going to announce sweeping reforms to protect children online this morning. Sir Keir Starmer says he wants to call time on a system he says has failed children ahead of his expected proposals of an under-16s social media ban.

37:32Our technology correspondent Zoe Kleinman will be in the room when the announcement is made in Downing Street in a few hours' time. She sent us this explainer. A social media ban for children in the UK is one of the measures we're expecting the Prime Minister to announce this morning. The goal is to protect young people on the internet. There was a big public consultation held by the government that's only just finished. There were nearly 120 ,000 responses and it says that nine out of ten parents supported the idea of keeping children off platforms like Instagram and TikTok and Snapchat and X until they're older.

38:05The minimum age at the moment is 13. But we don't think that it's going to stop there. We think there's going to be additional measures announced later on to things like overnight curfews for under 16s or even maybe under 18s, as well as blocking access to AI chatbots that generate sexually explicit content, also known as sexting. Now, there's lots of details that we don't know yet. We don't know exactly when it will start. We don't know how it would work. We don't know exactly how it will affect things like messaging, gaming and YouTube. but we do know the government has been clear that it wants to make it happen sooner rather than later.

38:41We think the tech companies are likely to be forced to comply or face penalties. They all tell us that they're very committed to protecting children. Now, if this all sounds a bit familiar, it's because it is. Australia was the first country in the world to implement a ban on social media for under 16 year olds. They did it in December last year. So it's been going for about six months now. And what we've heard is that a number of children have managed to find ways around the age verification card rails or they've gone to services not included in the ban instead. So it didn't include gaming, for example, and it also didn't include messaging platforms.

39:19Now, the UK's plan, which we have yet to hear but should hear very soon, has been described by some people in the know as Australia Plus, which suggests that it might be at least a little bit, if not a lot more strict. Online safety has been a priority for this government and it's done a lot to tighten up the rules and it's been very well received. So just last week, we had the Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, announcing plans to stop children from taking, sharing or viewing explicit images on their phones. Now, he did that by giving Apple and Google three months to come up with a solution because most people's handsets are either iPhones or they're Androids and they're operated by those two companies no matter what the manufacturer actually is.

40:06So we might see a social media ban operate in a similar way. So you'll have to verify your age when you get a phone. And if you're not old enough, you won't be able to get the social media apps from the app stores in the first place. But not everybody thinks that this is the right approach. Some people say, you know, the tech giants should be forced to make their platforms better rather than taking them away from children. We know that there are lots of benefits to being on social media. And why should children miss out? Because they're not safe enough. Surely campaigners like the NSPCC argue it should be made, you know, a good place for children to be so that they can get all the benefits without coming to harm.

40:45But we'll find out all of this later on this morning from the Prime Minister at Downing Street. That's our technology correspondent, Zoe Kleinman. I feel like that is also something we might be talking about on Wake Up to Money tomorrow. Still with me, by the way, is Laura Lambie, Senior Investment Director at Rathbones. And Laura, social media includes X, formerly known as Twitter, which is part of SpaceX. Today will be SpaceX's second day of trading when US markets open this afternoon. And it had a pretty good, as I think anticipated, pretty good first day. It did indeed. Launched at$135, opened at$150 and closed at$160.

41:28So for anyone that was lucky enough to get shares in this company, they've done very well on the first day of trading. And I suspect with global equity markets being up over the world on the back of the peace deal in Iran, then we might see them going up a bit further. Interestingly, the other competitors to SpaceX had a poor day on Friday. I think there was a what we call a rotation out of them into SpaceX. that might reverse. We never know. We'll wait and see. SpaceX has so many different strands going on, doesn't it? And quite futuristic plans going on as well. Do you think that this sort of investor appetite is about all the different pies that SpaceX has fingers in or about its AI kind of trend more broadly?

42:21Much, I think, is to do with what Elon Musk has already achieved. it's hugely sentiment driven. You're taking a lot of faith in that man because there's no earnings, there's no cash flow, there's no fundamentals around the company. It's all on the expectation of an exciting future for this company. And of course, it does make Elon Musk the world's first trillionaire. So, you know, it's nice to be some people having a tough time, but Elon Musk is clearly doing all right. I suppose one of the interesting parts of this is that a lot of people who maybe aren't proactively choosing to invest in SpaceX will just automatically be invested in SpaceX because they're in tracker funds.

43:06Tracker funds or indeed many of the unit trusts and investment trusts that we might be familiar with, Scottish Mortgage Trust being one of them, has always been a big supporter of Elon Musk when he started up Tesla. So they have been allocated shares in SpaceX. So if you're a holder in some of these collectivised investments, you may well hold SpaceX anyway. OK, well, also still with us. I'm waiting very patiently, I'm afraid, Penny Hughes, chair of the luxury retirement brand Riverstone Living. It has been one of those one of those busy mornings. So very, very glad that you are still with us.

43:44So you're working in retirement living. As we said, you've also previously been at the gym group, Coca-Cola, IQ student accommodation. Do you watch something like SpaceX taking off? Sorry, some terrible puns flying around. And do you kind of does it make sense to you? Not quite for exactly the reasons that Laura said. The fundamentals are just not there. You have to believe in the future, but you can only admire it. I mean, it's extraordinary story in terms of fundraising. Yes, yes, it is. Speaking of extraordinary stories then, just tell us, catch us up a bit on what demand for luxury retirement accommodation is like at the moment.

44:25What trends are you seeing? Well, the demographic trends are profound. So one in four people in London are over 65, but very few live in age-appropriate homes. So yes, we're operating at the luxury end. We've opened in Fulham, in Kensington, and later this year we'll be in Bishop's Avenue. And what we're offering is independent living for later years within a very vibrant community that offers security and health and well-being safety net as we age. So we're really redefining what life can be as we age. Our aim is not lifespan, how long we live, but healthspan, how long we can be healthy in order to enjoy life to the full.

45:08So we're seeing good demand. it's interesting because i often think like retirement communities they they seem to really really make sense as a way of people kind of having that that community feel um but having a bit of additional security and stability as they get older but we've had a message from will in london who wants specifically to ask you what your views are on the scary stories of a lot of family members being saddled with retirement flats they can't sell uh this is across the the industry not a specific to you problem, but they can't sell those flats because of very high service charge fees and ground rent escalation.

45:42And Will in London wants to know what you feel the government or the industry can do about that. So many of those stories have come from outside of London, where actually there are more retirement homes. So, you know, it is worth checking, making sure you're not buying in a place that's got a lot of competition. But here in London, actually that we are really undersupplied. So I think what we do is sit down with our prospects and really understand what's important to them. Are they trying to create a large inheritance or are they more concerned about what the fees are going to be? And then we structure our arrangements around their needs.

46:20We call it value and choice and the best way is just to come in and chat. But do you have a view on the wider industry and why perhaps in other parts of the UK it doesn't work as well? So I think what the government needs to think about is, you know, once people start to think about downsizing, that releases large homes. Obviously, once you're in a retirement community, you are likely to be costing the NHS a lot less because of the care and health that you're receiving. And so there should be some incentives for moving into age appropriate accommodation. and we've thought about things like stamp duty, last time stamp duty if you're buying your last home.

47:02There need to be some incentives so that people take the right decisions about where to live later in life. And of course that's if people can have decisions, if they have the cash to make decisions. Millions of people who will be paying rent or a mortgage after they retire don't know how they're going to be able to afford that. This is according to a new survey. 4 ,000 people took part in the research commissioned by the pensions and investment firm Royal London, shared exclusively with Moneybox, the BBC programme. Sarah Pennells is a consumer finance specialist at Royal London. There's a whole range of reasons why that could happen.

47:39Some people plan to rent and they maybe don't realise how much money they've got to set aside then for their retirement. But other people, they may have a partner, husband or wife, and they're thinking that they're going to have their mortgage paid off before they hit retirement. But life happens, events get in the way and suddenly what seemed like a really good plan that was on track is thrown completely off track. Well, you can hear more of the story on BBC Sounds. Just search Moneybox. You can find that programme. Penny, how often do you hear stories like this? Because this is sort of the other end to you.

48:13Your clients will be in a position to kind of look around for the best fit for them. But there's a growing cohort of people, aren't there, who are going to still be paying either mortgage or rent through their retirement. And that's putting pressure. Well, I think it's the right conversation to be having. It's clear that we are living at an unsustainable level of welfare and social care budgets. And even the pension triple lock is probably unsustainable. So we do need to have a conversation about what it means to plan for the future. And yes, my residents do have wealth, but even they are not planning well enough in terms of understanding what both their financial and health circumstances can be as we age.

48:55And so I agree with things like increasing the proportion into auto-enrolment, finding ways of bringing the self-employed sector into auto-enrolment. We need to plan for our future and pensions obviously needs to be a conversation that the nation has in order to help more people plan better for the future. Thank you very much. Laura, let's quickly touch on Boots as well, because the Australian pharmacy group Sigma Healthcare, which had been looking at a takeover of Boots, has now said it's pulled out of talks in the early hours of this morning, saying that the potential$10 billion deal doesn't match its objectives.

49:34What do you think that might have gone on there? Well, the deal that was coming in from the Australian private equity company was for a very different style of business from the one it was looking at and buying in terms of boots. So the Australian pile them high, sell them cheap model, I suspect, would have been difficult to replicate onto boots. I think they've had a look at the deal, thought perhaps the synergies and the cost savings that they could have originally gleaned from this sort of tie up were maybe not there and the valuation was too high. So they have now backed out of this, which is not great for the owners of Boots.

50:20OK, something that is great is Scotland kicking off their first World Cup campaign since 1990 with a win against Haiti at the Gillette Stadium in Boston early on Sunday morning our time. Very early or very late, depending on how you came at it. The Scots top Group C and take a big step towards reaching knockouts for the first time after Brazil and Morocco drew. We heard from friend of the show Hamish Husband earlier in the tournament. Hamish and the Tartan Army were partying late into the night over in the US. The morning after that amazing night before Scotland beat Haiti 1-0, we are taking the World Cup with the scruff of the neck.

51:01The locals have taken us to their heart with 42 ,000 Scotland fans officially in the stadium and perhaps the same amount in fan parks around Boston and Providence. It cost us, amazingly,£75 a return trip on a bus to a stadium that's in the middle of nowhere and those in Boston who took the train having paid$80 found that getting here was okay but many had to wait up until three hours to return. The locals are actually finding out what soccer is all about although we are being approached by some asking what's going on and seemingly not getting the clue that wearing kilts meant we were there for the FIFA World Cup.

51:37I wonder what they thought they were there for. He also sent us another update on how he and other fans spent the day after. Well, you thought it couldn't get any better sitting in a Boston bar and one of the fans said there's more Scots here than Bostonians because they're all away spending our money they've made from renting out their property to the Tarnam army. There's a fan march to the Boston Red Sox and they've kindly given us their own section and we get a free Boston Red Sox shirt at the end of the match. The World Cup just gets better. It does just get better. Laura, much excitement and I'm sure much excitement in Glasgow where you are.

52:19But you mentioned earlier on in the show that the bonus bank holiday is not happening for everybody. But presumably, things like Scotland success and a bank holiday for some, that must kind of, oh, this is such a wake up to money question, must boost spending. I do. I very much think it does boost spending. But I suppose if any ad hoc holiday does add costs to things and there's been a figure bandied about that it would cost the NHS about£19 million for the day off. So there are definitely consequences of giving the people of Scotland a day off on Monday. I'm glad I haven't taken a day off and I wouldn't be here.

53:01Well, yeah, we're very glad to. We're very glad to and I'm sure some people will be needing the day off. Penny, briefly if you can, but within your retirement communities, Are you all gathering together to watch the matches? Of course we are. Obviously looking forward to Wednesday in England, but congrats to Scotland. I'm a Liverpool fan, so well done to Andy Robertson leading the team there. But is everyone sort of kind of coming together? Is it a community sense? Yes. Oh, yes. No, I mean, we have residents who are in Fulham. They go to the Chelsea matches, so they might go to Fulham matches.

53:33They go together. It's all part of the community. Enjoying sport together is an absolute delight. Absolutely it is. Penny Hughes, Chair of Riverstone Living. Thank you so much for being with us. Laura Lambie, as always, thank you for joining us, Senior Investment Director at Rathbones. Thank you to you this morning for your company, for your many, many messages. That's it for Wake Up To Money. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live.

54:16The 2023 Ballon d 'Or France footballer is Lionel Messi. The winner is Cristiano Ronaldo. This is the story of the greatest rivalry in the history of sport. A rivalry that split football into two fates for a generation. There could be no, oh, Messi and Ronaldo are both great players. There had to be one that was better. They 100 million percent pushed each other to the next level. You know, we were the lucky ones who got to see it. I'm Steve Crossman. This is Sporting Giants Messi v Ronaldo. Listen first on BBC Sounds. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype?

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55:43Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. What do Beatles member Sir Paul McCartney, YouTube megastar MrBeast and former Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg all have in common? They're all being discussed in the new season of Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast which explores the lives and fortunes of the world's super rich. That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, search for Good Bad Billionaire wherever you get your BBC podcasts.