Tern-ing point

22:38Leanna Byrne:All right, let's move on. The president of one of the UK's biggest hotel groups says the sector is in for a challenging few months after the summer break. Russell Imrie is president of Best Western Hotels in the UK, which manages about 250 properties across the country. He's been telling me how the government could help hotels by doing more when it comes to business rights. What's important now is that hotels are not overlooked again. Hotels were left out when additional business rates relief was given to pubs. Despite hotels facing many of the same pressures, and in many cases significantly higher fixed costs than pubs, and yet independent hotels and the hotels in general were not included in that business rates relief.

23:19So going forward, the government needs to give hotels some breathing space while the work is done on this business rates revaluation. Nothing's going to come through inside three years. And that is a huge length of time for a hotel to continue to face these economic headwinds. The government really needs to do something. A reduction in VAT would be a simple yet effective lever to help operators protect jobs, support investment, put money back into businesses, etc. But the government seemed to be deaf to this constant request for the VAT rate for UK hospitality to be equal to the VAT rate in European hotels.

23:57Leanna Byrne:What happens after the summer peak for best Western hotels? Once the bank holiday is over and people aren't necessarily doing as many staycations, what's your outlook? I think the winter months, or shall we call them the off-season months, will be challenging. Corporate business is holding up. Companies need to send their teams on the road for business days or to have meetings and events. But we've got the increase in energy prices coming through with the increase in the price cap. It's just constantly tightening of the belt with consumers and I think it will be a very tough and difficult next six months from say October onwards for the leisure segment.

24:34Leanna Byrne:Russell, when you say tough, do you mean that your member hotels, are there any at risk of closing? Yes, there are hotels at risk and you just need to read the media and you can see examples of hotels which have not managed to trade through. A very significant Scottish-based hotel company with one hotel in Harrogate and one hotel in the Lake District went into administration this week. That was a hotel company with eight hotels. These are not small hotels. These are hotels with 90 to 100 bedrooms. So yes, businesses are fragile and there will be casualties going forward. But hotels are very resilient.

25:13They will do what they can and, you know, they will cut back themselves. They will reduce staffing. They will reduce investment. They will do what they can to stay in business. But that can have an impact on the number of young people being employed. It can have an impact on the quality of the product. Because if you're not spending money on carpets and curtains and beds and furniture and decoration, the quality of the product can go backwards simply because the hotelier does not have the funds from trading to spend on their property. So it's to be unknown what the impact will be. But yes, there are casualties happening and there will be casualties in the future.

25:46Leanna Byrne:Previously, you've spoken about the Edinburgh visitor levy and you said hotel industry's concerns they were ignored over that 5 % levy. So it's now been applied to stay since the 24th of July. Is there any measurable effect that you've seen in your hotels there? There's no measurable effect at the moment on number of customers because it was only introduced on the 24th of July. So we're very, very early in the day. Some customers are arriving not realising that they're going to have to pay a visitor levy. But where it has been having a huge impact, and we warned about this during the period that the visitor levy and tourist tax was being discussed, this policy of applying a percentage to the room rate is having a disastrous impact on smaller businesses.

26:28They just are not coping with the administration. And I would not be surprised going forward if there are going to be many, many accommodation businesses within Edinburgh who are just not able to manage the administration of this. It would have been so much simpler for both the business and for the customer if we did the same as everywhere else in Europe and we just apply an amount of money on top of the room per night. But this percentage increase is crazy.

26:55Leanna Byrne:I mean, the proceeds are meant to support the culture, the events, the public services that actually attract the tourists. So maybe that would actually benefit hotels. There is no faith that all this money raised on the visitor levy is going to be ring-fenced for the visitor economy. The city's finances are understandably under stress and the city see this visitor levy as a source of funding for day-to-day expenditure. Yes, some will be spent on the visitor economy, but some of it will go off to normal day-to-day city expenditure. That was Russell Imory, president of Best Western Hotels in the UK.

27:31Leanna Byrne:A government spokesperson said, hospitality businesses make huge contributions to the economy and to their communities and local high streets. That is why we support them, including through permanently lower business rates, cutting fat on family attractions and kids meals this summer and our£4.3 billion support package to limit bills rises. John, now this is a very different part of the economy to you, but are you seeing the same problem? Costs are staying high while customers are still quite price conscious, I guess. They are. But as I was mentioning before, I mean, happily, you know, all the way through the cost of living crisis, et cetera, consumers have, they are prioritizing their health, which is wonderful.

28:13And of course, you know, we work incredibly hard to not pass the price increases on. So, for example, we've been going for seven years now, happily. And because of all these different factors like world events, as well as the national insurance increase last year, etc., our cost of food inflation has probably been over 50 percent. If you looked at it from the beginning to the end. Yet we've only passed on about 7 percent. So we've done very, very little, mainly because we've been growing so fast. Like you can therefore have volume discounts that make it easier to buy because we really want everybody to be able to buy our products rather than just people who could afford to pay.

28:58We only charge a very small premium, but even so. So we work very hard to try and keep it down because it is really important, but it's not easy. And, you know, I sympathize for the gentleman from Best Western. You know, it is just it's a constant battle. But so far, you know, we're by growing really fast, we're managing to keep those prices down.

29:21Leanna Byrne:Economies of scale, I believe, that they used to tell me in my economics class back in the day, back to school. And we're talking about back to school. We're going to be talking actually to a workplace psychologist later on the programme, especially if you have that back to school feeling and you're kind of like, I need to get going again. So we're going to ask her a couple of questions. So if you have any, text them in. We actually have a text in here. Happy autumn, Liana, John and Victoria. Falling leaves reminds me of how the seasons change. And now is the time for lovely autumn forage, stews, castrels and apple pies and custard.

29:53Leanna Byrne:From Brendan, the Governor's House, New York and Trent. Thank you so much. That's so lovely. Wake up to money, but the cosy wake up to money.

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31:01Wake Up To Money from BBC Radio 5 Live.

31:05Leanna Byrne:Good morning. Welcome back to Wake Up To Money. I was talking earlier, September 1st. It's that time of year when things start to shift. It gets a little bit cooler. Summer is coming to an end. Kids are heading back to school. Maybe you don't have kids and actually September for you, sometimes you're actually taking your holidays now and you say there's no kids there and it's a little bit cheaper. But maybe you still view September as a bit of a reset. I think during the summer, just because there was something you looked forward to after work and, you know, we could do something more productive even after work was over.

31:38Leanna Byrne:But now that it's going to be winter, just waking up is going to be like one big step to take in the morning. OK, we have to wake up. We have to go to work. That's it. And if you're up now, I applaud you. Because are you motivated and ready to go? Or maybe you're craving that sunshine to return rather than those short, dark days that are on their way. Let's not talk about it. But you can get in touch with us if you have any September rituals. If you do feel like it's a back to school, it's a reset. Maybe you're just thinking about the future, about your job. but we've got a workplace psychologist later on in the programme.

32:10Leanna Byrne:If you've got any questions on that, you can get in touch with us. Text 85058 or WhatsApp 08085 909693. And if you're listening to us on BBC Sounds or the podcast, use the hashtag WakeUpToMoney on social media. Well, of course, the summer break is over and as part of that, big part of it actually, MPs are returning to Westminster today for the first time since Andy Burnham became Prime Minister and with the budget coming up in October, businesses will be looking for clues about what his government plans to do to get the economy growing. A few weeks ago, he spoke to Wake Up To Money about some of his priorities.

32:47We are going to bring forward the VAT cuts on electricity. We are bringing forward the business rate cuts for pubs. We're going to look at business rates more broadly for high street businesses in the budget. So there's plenty more that we can do. So when I talk about the bigger moves, I personally believe learning from the experience I had with buses in Greater Manchester, more public control of the essential services, water, energy, housing, in the end would mean we could get to a more substantial answer to the cost of living crisis that people face.

33:22Leanna Byrne:So there you go. Housing was one of the big themes there. The government has promised to build one and a half million homes in England over five years. But house builders say there are still some pretty big obstacles in the way. Eleanor Dealey is joint managing director of the Dealey Group, a house builder and contractor based in the Midlands. And she joins us now. Eleanor, good morning. Good morning. So before we get into what you want from the Prime Minister, just how difficult is it to build and sell a home at the moment? It is pretty much a perfect storm at the moment in terms of trying to build and deliver homes that we know we so desperately need.

33:59And that is because we have issues both on the supply side, because the planning changes that the government have made haven't really come into effect. So we're still seeing really low rates of planning for homes come through. We've also had the cost of capital go up and costs rising for everyone, but particularly for house builders. we've had£39 ,000 per home added to the cost of every home from new red tape in the last five years and£37 ,000 from inflation. And when you combine that with the demand side issues, we've seen sales rates lower, particularly for SMEs and affordability for our purchases, you know, is a real issue.

34:38As we've seen mortgage costs rise, buyers have 9 % less buying power now than they did at the start of the year. And that's impacting sales. So we have both demand and supply issues, which is really what's causing this slowness in delivery of housing.

34:54Leanna Byrne:Well, when you hear the government wants one and a half million homes built in England over five years, and we're well short of the pace needed at the moment, do you think that target is now realistically achievable? Sadly, I don't think there's any way we can achieve that target. We're currently at about 58 % of the government target. and we've got major planning approvals dropped to a 20-year low. And builders want to build and we will build as quickly as we can sell homes. But there have been a number of things that have delayed us. You know, the affordable housing grants that came through last week should have come through six, nine months ago.

35:30We've been waiting for them so we can get on site and build those homes. And we also need help in terms of market stimulus for buyers trying to get on that ladder. so we need both sides of the equation to level up to help us build more.

35:46Leanna Byrne:When you talk about stimulus are you talking things like help to buy or just because they've been criticised sometimes for pushing up the price of new homes haven't they? They have absolutely been criticised for that but there needs to be something to help people get on on the housing ladder whether it's helped buy whether it's a stamp duty change but there needs to be confidence in the market at the moment you know we're all feeling that cost of living pressure and some of the things that the government are doing to try and reduce that will help. But actually people need confidence they're going to be able to afford to pay their mortgage and they need confidence in the market.

36:20And that's where some help in getting people onto the housing ladder would really make a difference.

36:28Leanna Byrne:One of those initiatives, ministers announced new powers for mayors to step in on some big planning decisions. And that sounds in the face of it like a way to get homes built faster. so is that going to help? I really wish I could be more positive on this one. That's okay, just be honest, don't worry about it. You know, mayoral, working as a regional business the importance of the regions is huge and growth in every postcode is a great headline and what we all want to see but the mayoral changes in terms of planning just add another layer of government to an already very bureaucratic process. We have a real shortage of town planners in the country and those are based in local authorities.

37:12We now have a system where mayors will need their own set of planners to review planning applications again after the local authorities have already reviewed that. And what that does is it just adds more red tape, more cost, more time and less deliverability. I think if the mayoral changes in terms of delivery need to be much more strategic in terms of the big strategic projects not 150 homes in certain locations.

37:39Leanna Byrne:So if Andy Burnham was listening this morning, and you never know who he might be, he was on Wake Up To Money a couple of weeks ago. What's the one thing that you would want as government to do the most? The thing I would want the most is really some help for people trying to get on the housing ladder, some help on the demand side. And I know you said only one, but really the reduction of red tape, you know, let us get on and build. Let us get on and deliver the homes that are needed. enable business to do better by having a stable economy, low interest rates, a pro-growth, a pro-business government.

38:12Leanna Byrne:All right. Eleanor Dealey, Joint Managing Director of the Dealey Group, a house builder and contractor based in the Midlands. Thank you so much for joining us. Now, still with us is John Walsh from Bio and Me. John, you're running a fast-growing British business. When you hear the Prime Minister talking about getting the economy growing, what would actually make a big difference to you? I mean start start with something I'd I'd keep encouraging him on you know his focus on the regions obviously I mean London is is hugely important but but most of the country is obviously outside of there so I applaud that and I mean we we have a team of of 30 people most of whom are based in Chester so not so very far away from you in Manchester so all of that focus I think on growing in the regions is really important and to be admired, as is his focus on young people.

39:05So the programme about the needs, not an education, etc. Getting the young people into work is really, really important. Otherwise, I think we're in danger of missing a generation there. It's funny, we're only small, but we were about a year ago, 15 people. We've just increased the team size up to 25. And six of those were young people in their 20s coming in, which is brilliant for the business. You know, they all had jobs and were highly skilled before, you know, lots on social media and the sales side, etc. But getting that young talent into the business is so important. So I'd really encourage that as well.

39:47I mean, if there was one thing I would make a plea for them not to do because sometimes somebody made a very good comment about sort of business just like certainty and we now we know what the rules of the game are and if we can just be left alone to get on with it sometimes that's the best thing that the government can do and I hear whispers around changes in the capital gains tax and in a way that's sort of fine if it's on passive investments so if it's on share ownership or property or whatever where people aren't working at it they're just benefiting from from gains i sort of can understand that but to change it on for for people doing found it founding companies entrepreneur growing you know we're we're trying to create the jobs that pays the taxes i would i would say please do not change the rules on that because it's hard enough already you know we we got 42 people to invest in bio and me you know and they do get a tax break on it and it's really important to help us get going.

40:51So please don't change that. I mean, again, the whispers I'm hearing are that they're planning not to because he recognises the importance of people getting out there and creating jobs. So yeah, that's where we'd be coming from.

41:03Leanna Byrne:Yeah, Eleanor did make some really good points about the cost of building and borrowing. You kind of were talking about financing costs. Is financing making it harder for businesses like yours to invest and expand if it's difficult to come by? So it all gets a bit technical because our fundraising we did through the sale of equity, so shares in the company. And that's where these 42 lovely people invested. We only do a very small amount of borrowing. But yeah, it's a pretty high interest rate. We pay 8%, 9%. So you've then got to earn that back. So yeah, that can be difficult. Victoria Eleanor was also making the point that affordability for people is now the biggest problem really.

41:50Leanna Byrne:Is that essentially an interest rate problem though with high interest rates or is there much deeper issues really there? Well, I think that the government has made it clear that tackling the cost of living has been one of its key priorities and it will continue to be. And of course, we're operating in a backdrop when inflation is above the 2 % target at the beginning of the year. We thought that inflation was coming down to target, but of course, the Iran war completely derailed that. And so we've got much higher for longer interest rates, which has an impact on mortgage lending and other business lending, like John was just talking about there.

42:32And of course, for most consumers or individuals out there, rent or your mortgage is your biggest cost. So tackling that will be key to helping to alleviate some of those cost of living pressures going forward.

42:49Leanna Byrne:I mean, we're always talking about whether interest rates are going to rise or fall, whether that's going to help the housing market. But if rates stay relatively high for longer, and I mean, historically, they're not super high, right? But they are still high for the last couple of years when you compare to the low interest rates of one to two percent. So what does that mean for house builders and house prices, really? Well, it certainly puts pressure on house prices when borrowing is that much higher. It makes getting a mortgage more expensive, servicing that mortgage more expensive for people.

43:25So that can have a downward impact on house prices in the economy. And yeah, we are operating in this interest rate environment that is more challenging than it has been in recent history. and so that adds just another pressure that we've already seen to a housing market that's also dealing with pressures on supply. So, there's constrained supply and then there's also the potential for limited demand because of those mortgage pressures. So, it's kind of both sides of the ledger that's creating this somewhat of a crisis really for the housing market and I think that that's going to be a key priority for Andy Burnham.

44:06Leanna Byrne:John, we hear a lot from government about wanting businesses to invest and grow, but is it really those new schemes and those initiatives that businesses want, or is it just a period of economic stability? In all honesty, I would say the period of economic stability. I mean, the initiatives can help. Like the one I was talking about, the younger people earlier, you know, on a very specific point can help. But I think one thing I've learned, Because I used to work in really big companies before I took the risk of starting my own. And I really have learned that that bit about just leave the rules alone, give us some certainty really matters because you've got to plan one, two, three years in advance.

44:47And if you see things changing, what tends to happen is businesses freeze. So they won't invest in factories. They don't hire. Crucially, they won't hire people because they're nervous about what might happen. And therefore, they just kind of pause. So, you know, we've kind of battled our way through that. But I think, yeah, there's a real value in just leaving the rules as they are so we can get on with the growth.

45:12Leanna Byrne:All right. Well, let's talk about back to school. As Parliament returns and the schools start going back, September can feel like a bit of a reset for us all. The slower pace of summer comes to an end. Workplaces start filling up again. And for some people, coming back from a holiday gives them a chance to think about their job, their goals and whether they actually want to change something. And it's something described as a kind of second New Year. Wake Up To Money's Olivia Hutchinson has been asking people in Salford Keys whether they feel that September shift when it comes to work. For me, it definitely does.

45:44I think during the summer, just because there was something you look forward to after work.

45:48Leanna Byrne:and you know we could do something more productive even after work was over but now that it's going to be winter just waking up is going to be like one big step to take in the morning okay we have to wake up we have to go to work we feel a struggle when we go you know they're kind of going back and i'm lucky enough i work from home most days so at this stage you can't get the time back the other day ideal is it's not sunny anymore i do work out after work or before work so before work it's all right but if I'm going after work it's already kind of dark and when it's winter time it's like oh I don't feel like doing it anymore because I'm already tired after work so it makes me a bit more lazy.

46:25Leanna Byrne:Oh I feel that completely. So what camp are you in? Are you still struggling to get out of summer mode or are you quite pleased to get back into a routine? I'm going to be speaking to Dr Joanne Gray as a business psychologist specialising in motivation performance and well-being at work. Joanne, good morning. Good morning. So you seem bright and chipper. Maybe you like September. Maybe September has a good effect on you. Well, to be honest, this is the earliest I've been awake for about five weeks. So I have had some caffeine. So yeah, it's a bit of a shock to the system, but good to talk to you.

47:00Leanna Byrne:Yeah, we appreciate it. I mean, is there actually something psychological about having a clear point in the year when routines change? Is that helpful for us? Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. I was literally having this conversation last week with my husband. So, and there is a psychological phenomenon that we call the fresh start effect. And it is literally where there are kind of a temporal landmark. So it might be a birthday, it might be a certain month, obviously January is a huge temporal landmark. But we see that September can act in that way, particularly for those who work in education, for obviously teachers, educators, but obviously parents as well.

47:39You just had a holiday and so they do act as a kind of impetus to maybe do things a little bit differently for the months ahead.

47:50Leanna Byrne:Is it September 1st or is perhaps the holiday period itself that was most important, having that distance from work and it gives you the chance to think more clearly about whether you're happy with what you're doing sometimes. Yeah, I think, I mean, generally we're talking about September because obviously September the 1st today. I think, you know, there'll be a ton of people who aren't actually going back to work till next week. There'll be people who don't have kids and haven't had their holiday yet. So I think it's more related to kind of post event, significant event, calendar event. But certainly because a raft of people will have had bank holiday weekend and been away in August, it feels particularly poignant right now.

48:31Leanna Byrne:Hmm. So is it a big time of year then when people are thinking about changing jobs, making career decisions or just thinking about the next couple of months until we hit the end of the year? Well, it's interesting, again, going back to September, if we think for organisations, goal setting, objectives tend to work, they're working calendar years. Q4 can often be a big year because one, it's the final quarter. So if you're looking at your objectives and suddenly thinking, oh, I've now only got one quarter to achieve them, that can drive a bit of momentum and motivation so there's there's certainly something around goal setting and goal setting periods um certainly for careers um career mobility again you mentioned if people have been reflecting pause and reflect on holiday thinking about you know is the work i'm doing what i want to do it gives them that time to reflect so coming back in september we we often see a kind of uptick in recruitment but some of that is also to do with the fact that during august there's a bit of a lull because hiring managers and candidates and the like are possibly on holiday so the uptick can kind of be a little bit explained by that too.

49:40Leanna Byrne:There you go. We've got a text in here regarding September rituals for me. It's about this week dragging myself out of bed to the gym or run early ahead of the school nursery drop-offs and work starting. If I don't start the week well then I'll be in trouble later down the line. I'm ready for this day just finishing my gym session you can do it and that text came in at quarter to six. So I'm impressed by that. But there's another side, isn't there to Joanne? Because sometimes it's a shock to the system. And how do you motivate yourself to get back into work without expecting to be sometimes not at full speed capacity?

50:17Leanna Byrne:I mean, that texture is doing really well, but sometimes it's easing yourself into it, isn't it? Yeah. And it's really interesting. I think, you know, having a summer holiday can obviously be great for recuperation and kind of rebuilding your resources so you feel energized but that switch in readjusting to your work routines and the alarm clock going off can you know can be a bit discombobulating for some I mean I sometimes get it on a Monday after the weekend so but that idea of kind of readjusting and there's a great article by some researchers in Portugal that kind of really looked at this and they talked about almost the necessity to have a tune-up day just to kind of get you back in.

51:00I mean, I think maybe a tune-up week after a long holiday. Tune-up months. Yeah. But that idea of like really, you know, just having to readjust because suddenly you're having alarm clocks, you've got maybe lifts, drop-offs, all that kind of thing. It's quite a lot to readjust to.

51:18Leanna Byrne:That's it. John, do you find your team comes back more energised after a proper break, maybe September? Maybe some of them, if they're a bit younger, don't have kids, they take their holidays in September? I'm going to use this as an excuse to be really nice to the team. I was laughing about this over the weekend, actually, because there's lots of chat on LinkedIn about, you know, the whole back to school piece. It's like the same phrase about back to work. I mean, the implication of that is, is you've had the summer off. And, you know, we're a small, fast growing. They kind of call us challenger brands and what were these funny phrases.

51:52But like we just, I mean, we've been working really hard. The team have been working really hard over the summer. So this sort of idea of, you know, it's back to work now, not not in our world. And actually, you know, if there are some big companies where that's true, because I think that the point you're making actually is valid. I think that is often a pattern. But happily, not in our world. We've got an amazing team and they've been working hard all over the summer. So I, and as I said earlier, by the way, that bit about it's true for work and the team, it is true for consumers changing their habits as well.

52:27And, you know, as they go back into the routine of September and it is often around school, you know, people will adopt healthier habits. So the team's been working really hard to get ready for that.

52:39Leanna Byrne:Victoria, does September feel like a reset in the city as well? yeah i mean i from my perspective this is a great time to think about your finances as well get your uh finances in order think about if you're not already investing in your isa it's a great time to start thinking about that if you're not thinking ahead towards your pension also really really good moment to kind of have a reset and um think about your plans for saving and investing for the future um and then of course the businesses uh we're coming to the final quarter of the year, which for many businesses is very important in the lead up to Christmas.

53:16So another key kind of point in the year for investors as well.

53:21Leanna Byrne:All right. Very good advice. Joanne, if somebody was listening this morning and wants to use September as a reset, what's one useful thing they could do rather than suddenly giving themselves a huge list of new goals? Yeah. Do you know, I would keep it simple and I tend to use this start, stop, do differently. So just ask yourself, what should I start doing? one thing, just do one. What thing do I need to stop doing? And what could I just do differently that might make a difference to, you know, whatever I'm looking to achieve? So that would be my advice. That's great. Dr. Joanne Gray, business psychologist, specialising in motivation, performance and wellbeing at work.

53:56Leanna Byrne:What do you think, John? You're going to take on that advice? Yeah, I love it. Actually, funnily enough, we just had a, we took the team away for three days to plan out next year down on the South Coast. And we went through a little bit of that, about the start, stop, continue, etc. But all the new things, it is good advice. That's brilliant. All right, John Walsh, founder and chief executive of the gut health food company, Bio and Me, and Victoria Scholar, head of investment at Interactive Investor. Thank you both for joining us on Wake Up To Money. One texter came in here, said, should we name it September Fool's Day?

54:33Leanna Byrne:Laughing face, Nick. that's not a bad bit of advice and also home workouts from Southampton I will not be doing that and that is it from Wake Up To Money Wake Up To Money from BBC 5 Live 5 Live Sports So here's the first ball of this series All the cricket you love Check Robbie W Ouch Lives on BBC Sounds Smash straight back down the ground this girl Here ball by ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a fourth week and it's the huge one. Jeez. Settle down, toughness. Sorry, man. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've living every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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