#2978 RHOC S19E07 Part 2: See Ya Later, Alligator

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3:08Ben Mandelker: Hi, everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of a two-part recap. If you're wondering where part one was, well, go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe. That way you always get your episodes. But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode.

3:48Gretchen Rossi: You know how in Big Bear they have big wooden bears at every place? Every time they were going, Wow, so stop bullying me. You're paying something into me. Why is it every bed while the bears are big bears? I mean, do you know? But then I had to go to therapy, because after you've seen her, I don't get paid for this episode. So here I am.

4:04Tamra Judge: It was so important for me to go to Big Bear and to be isolated and alone. And that's what I was. Alone. Alone in Big Bear. Here's some footage that some person took of me being alone. just so you know that I was alone with another person who could film me.

4:19Gretchen Rossi: Look at me I'm sitting on a log all alone with somebody sitting behind a tree taking a picture I love that it's just Tamara I'm so alone sitting on a log someone took the picture Tamara I know

4:33Tamra Judge: so she's like well I confronted this girl about taking roofies about talking about roofies and I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her

4:43Ben Mandelker: that's I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her.

4:51Ronnie Karam: Sorry, I wanted to give her a chance to make me believe her. Something like that.

4:56Ben Mandelker: I'm inviting you to say something truthful so I can finally believe you. I'm giving you the floor to change your narrative so it fits mine. Would you like to take that chance?

5:09Gretchen Rossi: And then I just remember Gretchen yelling at me and Gina yelling at me and Jennifer for making a voodoo doll that was trying to copy my entire life.

5:17Tamra Judge: When I called the guy, I said, take me to the airport. And then when we're driving, I looked. The driver was a beignet.

5:25Gretchen Rossi: I was just such a mess. I was such a mess. And prior to dinner, I called Teddy. And Teddy didn't answer. And I just thought Teddy died or something. So that's when I took half a Xanax, everybody. I don't even remember anything. I don't remember anything after that.

5:42Ben Mandelker: And we see a flashback of her calling Teddy and Teddy's voicemail goes, hi, you've reached Teddy. Don't leave a voicemail.

5:50Tamra Judge: And Tamar's like, Teddy, I'm leaving you a voicemail. I just hope you're doing okay. I'm on camera right now. So America needs to see that I care. It's a very Teddy voicemail greeting. It's like, hey, I'm Teddy. Don't leave a voicemail. Beep.

6:05Ben Mandelker: But I love that she still leaves a voicemail. Because I think that Teddy sincerely is like, really don't leave a voicemail. I don't want to deal with your voicemail. But I also like that Teddy just starts with Hi, I'm Teddy. Hi, I'm Teddy. Hi, I'm Teddy. You reached my voicemail. Don't leave a message.

6:21Gretchen Rossi: I was just upset. So I took a Xanax and two drinks. It's because Teddy's sick, everybody. I just don't want people to see that side of me. The side of me where I get caught taking Xanax and drinks when everybody's seen that side of me nine million times on these episodes of this show.

6:35Ronnie Karam: It's like, Tamara, we all know the only, we know now what it is but we've seen for years when you show up with your little black beady eyes and act like that it's not like the first time that this has ever happened and I love that she's like you know

6:50Ben Mandelker: you know they knew I did something they could tell and we just see these like little bubbles of like flashbacks like here's Tamra having trying to have this very serious therapy scene and they put up a little bubble of Gina going you're sloshed

7:06Gretchen Rossi: and then not one of them called me Not one of them No one's even concerned about me After I tell them all the fuck off and die I mean it's crazy Like no one even cares how I got home and nothing

7:17Ronnie Karam: And the doctor's like uh-huh And how do you make sense of that honey?

7:20Gretchen Rossi: She's like they don't care about me They don't like me and nobody likes me I feel rejection I have to think Does this person like me? Now everywhere I go I'm like does this person like me? The other day I went to buy a tank top and bear And I was like does that lady like me? Probably not

7:43Ben Mandelker: So Doc is like, you're very wounded. And I would say just a little bit annoying. That's part of your pathology.

7:52Tamra Judge: Yeah, well, after my dad left my mom and Sidney left me and Quiznos closed down, it's just hard to get close to someone. I put a wall up. I put a wall.

8:03Gretchen Rossi: I put a wall up. It's all because of my dad. and you know sitting in stuff I just feel like I'm never good enough I just don't know where my plate's at anymore it's almost like you can't accuse people of stuff and trying to ruin their lives and stuff without them saying something bad can't you is this not right so then this is such a Tamra scene

8:24Ben Mandelker: oh my god Tamra's therapy is the gift that keeps on giving I love it I love how she comes in there just like it's like with Jax at his like his rehab scenes Tamra coming in there crying and being like, oh my God, am I even allowed to talk? I can't even say a thing. People don't like me. I'm never good enough. Oh, woe is me. And it's like you're completely reframing her wretched behavior that happens all the time. Oh, it's perfect villain behavior.

8:49Ronnie Karam: It's like, wow, so that's what you're wearing tonight? I mean, you'll look a little heavy. God, that was really shitty of you to say, oh, I'm sorry. I can't say anything. I can't say anything.

9:00Ben Mandelker: Oh, okay. Cancel culture. so then um we go to emily and she's home with luke and the family etc and so they're trying to get luke to eat some food looks like he's eating some fries whatever he doesn't want to eat any sweet potatoes it's funny because they're like she's like you want to have some sweet potato and he's like no way jose and he's like it's orange and they're trying to show this is like further evidence um which i don't doubt you know he has a eating disorder but i'm also like to be fair as a kid, you might not want to eat sweet potato. Like, I was like, that's kind of how kids are, you know?

9:33Yeah, that is part of it. It's like, okay. And so, would you like some broccoli? Would you like some broccoli and Brussels sprouts? No. Oh, my God. So it's like, you don't like orange food? Well, I mean, Keller would try anything. The normal one would eat it. I'm like, how is this?

9:52Ronnie Karam: Like, watching you deal with this is, like, hard. It's hard to watch even as a non-parent i'm just like oh my god and while i watch it i'm like don't say anything you're not supposed to parent shame you don't understand what this is like this is not your lived experience and i get all that but at the same time i'm like oh my god you're gonna you're gonna why are you doing this stop it i think she's trying to be like stop it

10:15Ben Mandelker: i think she's trying to be like hey it's okay look keller eats it it's totally fine but it's really coming off as like keller eats it what's wrong with you hey non-freak you want to try it sweet potato see that's how you do it shane is like okay let's get him out of here uh so they the kids go off and uh he gives like emily this really really long hug like he doesn't want to leave emily etc so they they go and um and emily starts talking about how when she was in new orleans luke was calling over and over and over again and sort of made her feel bad and she's

10:50Ronnie Karam: she's talking about but then we see evidence of this and every time he answers she just puts it on like go to voicemail she's like i just feel so guilty as a mom you have a child in crisis and he called me over and over again and then they show him calling and she's like voicemail voicemail voicemail voicemail it's like man the editors hate your ass because that's she was probably just like pressing likes on tweets or something and the editors were like yeah let's just show emily pressing ignore on her child in crisis over and over that's cold you guys come on

11:25Ben Mandelker: so she says that he started like when she came home he was talking like all baby like and aggressive and shane's like yeah but when he's when you're not here he's like he's like normal it's just like when you're here he talks like a baby i'm not saying that you baby him but uh maybe it's time to throw out the baby bottles you know i'm saying em she's like what so they're talking

11:47Ronnie Karam: about this and yeah she's like no but it's neurological that's how why we have testing Shane and Shane's like okay but if it's neurological then we have to work around it you know I mean you go to New Orleans he gets up he gets ready and go to school but when you're here he texts you all day from school he won't go he won't leave he's hugging you like some of it is just an act for your attention Emily and she's like he's possibly autistic and you're simplifying it

12:12Ben Mandelker: he's basically like well now I'm getting mad because like you act like I have to like cry and be upset and consider like i don't have to like like i care just as much as you do but you're making it seem like because i'm not like expressing all these emotions that i don't feel the same way and then he tells us and i was sort of like i was sort of like i kind of like shane's perspective on this and then he starts saying how well i'm more sensitive to my girls and maybe that's wrong but like you know for me like whatever he's like if it were me i wouldn't send the boy like send to a specialist right away because like the the i'm always telling my boys you have to like you know like toughen up and like walk it off and i'm like well i don't know like like if there's something that needs to be addressed like go to a specialist can we like step out of our gender

12:56Ronnie Karam: roles for one second i mean i think what he's just trying to say is kids are kids and you don't know how much of it is a kid being just an odd kid and going through a phase or how much of it is an actual thing and like his way is just kind of taking it at the kid's pace and figuring it out as they go along and emily is like freaking out over every little thing and trying to label it as oh god it's got to be this disease or that disease or it has to be autism or it has to be an eating disorder and he's like can we just like chill you know because even if it is those things it's not like we're gonna throw the kid it's not like there's something instant you can do where you can just throw the kid into some kind of a machine and change everything.

13:38Ronnie Karam: You're going to just have to kind of learn how to deal with it as you go along. Right. And so I think he's just got that more chill attitude where she's in like, we have to fix it mode, which I mean, I can see both sides. Obviously, I'm more of a Shane, you know, I mean, I was just raised to be like, you're not going to the doctor unless you are bleeding out of your eye, you know. But then I also had phases of growing up where I was diagnosed with a lot of different stuff that at that time was like, what even is that? It's like dyslexia or ADD and stuff like that. I was diagnosed with that stuff when I was younger.

14:13Ronnie Karam: And we were just like, meh, sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me, you know? And then as an adult, yeah, I do still type words in jumbles, as you see in my notes constantly. There are moments where I have that and ADD. I think anyone who listens to this show can probably vouch for that one being correct. But I don't know. It's like, is one version of parenting better than the other? I don't know.

14:35Ben Mandelker: uh i don't know i think it's actually good to have the balance i think it's good to have someone who is concerned and is like it's like we should look into this i think it's also good for to have someone who is saying like let's also like let's not make our child lose his mind like he's still he's still a kid and we can't make him we can't treat him like like we yeah we can also let him just go out in the world and exist too so i think the balance is good but where shane i think is not great is that like emily is obviously emotional about this and he is as usual not very supportive when she needs some she needs some support from her partner and he's kind of like why are you acting like this okay well okay we can hug fine let's hug and he's like it's like it's one thing for him to i think maybe be more stoic around the whole situation but i think within when it comes to your wife and she's going through it, like maybe step up a little bit and try to like do something to put her at ease because she is your partner.

15:36Ronnie Karam: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that, but I can also see his side because you see him try to be patient with Emily during these conversations where he's just obviously thinking different and he doesn't want to label it all these things. Just, he's not ready to go like whole, whole hog on this. And Emily is just being kind of so over the top about every little thing. Like, he didn't want a french fry! Oh my god! This is a huge thing! He isn't eating this. And he's like, oh my god, it's normal for a kid to not want a fucking french fry. So, I think he's trying to be patient, and there is a sense from Emily like, well, I care more because I'm crying a lot.

16:11Ronnie Karam: And like, how can you not care that our son has this disease? I mean, I would feel like she's saying that to me when he's like, it doesn't mean I don't care. It's like, just because I'm not going into histrionics about a sweet potato doesn't mean that I don't care about our son. So please don't insinuate that. But I do see what you're saying as far as like when somebody is really going through it, it doesn't really matter if she's right or wrong. She still needs somebody to just be like, listen, everything you're saying, if you're correct about every single thing and he has an eating disorder and he's autistic and he has all of this other stuff, it's going to be okay.

16:44Ronnie Karam: And we're going to get through it together and you don't need to take it all on yourself. You know, he needs,

16:49Ben Mandelker: he needs to like be able to do that too yeah i think because i i do like when he's sort of being like hey if it's a neurological thing nothing to be upset about like it's just who he is you know and you just will work around it and make accommodations he's trying to sort of like he's trying to be actually very like like a return to normalcy like hey it's okay we can be normal like you don't it's nothing to cry over like if this is just the way he is it's the way he is we love him all the same right i think he's trying to come from that tactic but i think that like I think that Emily just needs reassurances that everything's okay.

17:21Ben Mandelker: And I think she also has all these other issues about being a mom that come from her own childhood. So she's just sort of going through it. So that's what happened in that scene. Then we go over to Tamara.

17:33Ronnie Karam: It's a barrel of monkeys over at that house. Great times.

17:37Ben Mandelker: Great times. So we go over to Ospi. And we have Heather meeting up with Tamara.

17:49Ben Mandelker: Tamara is very cool.

17:50Tamra Judge: She's like, how are you? I'm sad. You may have noticed. I love Dr. Poehler.

17:54Ben Mandelker: Like that's her whole vibe. So, Heather's like, how are you? Most importantly. And by most importantly, I put that in air quotes. It's more like least importantly, because you should be asking me how I'm doing since I just had to put floors into a mansion that I'm going to sell at a loss.

18:11Ronnie Karam: I just wanted you to know this is a very sensitive scene with you, Tamara. So I ordered peppermint tea instead of shimps. I'm feeling things. This is me feeling. Okay? So, what happened

18:29Ben Mandelker: now that our handsome waiter Cody has come and left? Because that guy Cody is like, hey everyone, I'm Cody. I'll be your waiter. Would you guys like some biceps or triceps for your appetizer? All right. Bye everyone. Oh, I'm here to serve your tea bag. Whoa, whoa, Cody. Wow.

18:46Gretchen Rossi: Well, I guess I'm doing a little bit better than I was. I don't know if you saw the social media post that mental health, that I was sitting on a log all alone, a big bear, isolating, isolating. Not even the bears would talk to me, big bear.

19:01Ben Mandelker: Yeah, you know, I felt like you walked into dinner in a good spot. You had a big smile on your face.

19:07Tamra Judge: Yeah, because I thought for once, we got Gretchen on the side. We got our Gretchen on the side. We were going to just roast Katie. It looked great. Everything was going our way. And I talked to Gretchen and I thought that I believed what she said. But then I thought back about her acting and I was like, hmm, no.

19:25Ronnie Karam: Yeah, she's basically saying she believed Gretchen's act of being so horrified at what Katie has done, but it all turned into a plan to ruin Tamara's plan. I was like, Tamara, you don't even understand how you sound. Like, you don't even understand how you sound because it is what you said. I mean, basically what she's saying is like, I talked to Gretchen, I had it all ready to go.

19:44Gretchen Rossi: And then before the dinner, Gretchen decided she wasn't going to go on with my plan. Do you know how upsetting that is? Do you know how upsetting it is?

19:52Ben Mandelker: That's what she's offended about. She's like, when she says that, she said, when I thought back to her acting, she's literally saying, like, wow, she led me on into thinking she'd be on my side. But then she wasn't on my side in trying to drive a wedge between her and Katie.

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22:37Ronnie Karam: And Tamara said she is asking Katie and Gretchen. No, no. She's saying she's asking Gretchen. And Gretchen's kind of whispering because she doesn't want it to be on camera, probably. But she's like, yeah, but I did have to go to the hospital because I was so sick. So, like, yeah, she said there that she did have to go. And she told her that. And so Tamara's like, and Gretchen is the queen of denial. You know, didn't say I went to the hospital. Well, yeah, you did. So which one is it? And then we see the clip of this is where Gretchen is in the confusing pink dress that was freaking me out. That says, I didn't go to the hospital.

23:12Ronnie Karam: I felt so sick that I should have gone to the hospital. So Gretchen's a goddamn liar, too. This is where I almost threw shit at the TV. I was like, wait a minute. You're all liars. All of you. Come on, man.

23:24Ben Mandelker: Well, because she knows that this is going to go like what Gretchen probably knows is that this is Tamara's ploy. This is Tamara's immunity agreement that she's offering to Gretchen, which is if you co-sign that you said this, I won't come after you. I'll use it to go after Katie. But Gretchen is afraid that Tamara's could go back on the immunity agreement and turn it into an issue of like, how could you tell people that I that I root for you? That's illegal. You should never. She knows this is going to be used against her. So now she's like, oh, I'm going to hedge. I'm going to actually, like I did say that, but now I'm, you know, I don't want to get involved because I know this will be used against me and I don't want to go back to naked wasted.

24:00Ben Mandelker: That's my interpretation of it. And of course, Tamara is going to do that exact thing. She is going to revoke the immunity, I guess because Gretchen didn't hold up her end of the immunity bargain. But now, now this fight, I guarantee in four weeks from now, I'm going to be like, what caused all this mess in the first place? It's all just, it's just, this whole thing is going to spiral out of Tamara just trying to turn Gretchen against Katie by saying that Katie has been telling people that Gretchen has been saying that Tamara would feed her. My God.

24:30Gretchen Rossi: So Tamara says, oh yeah, I had some suspicions going into dinner that it wasn't going to work out. So I got triggered. I got triggered. You know, so I knew I was going to get upset. So I didn't want to get upset. So instead of getting upset, I took Xanax. I mean, God, I'm just on an island by myself. What am I supposed to do? It was just taking the vitamin before Ray's.

24:49Ben Mandelker: Hello. Hello. My turn. My turn. What about me? I was worried about you. I sent a text to Terry and said, I wonder what's going on with Tamara. Did you not know that?

25:03Ronnie Karam: Hey, Terry, you have a show called Botched. Could you have one that's called Psychologically Botched and find out what's going on with Cuckoo Pants over there? Because, geez.

25:13Ben Mandelker: So, Tamara goes, I didn't get a call. And then Heather just all of a sudden, it's almost like the cape comes out and the evil queen is there. And she goes, excuse me. I called you that night. I spoke to you on FaceTime and you hung up. Then I texted you. How are you? Where are you? And you know what you do? You text me. You call me. Guess what? The tables have turned. This is my fight now. And I am the victim of the evening.

25:44Ronnie Karam: I am extremely upset and I'm going to show it by doing my underbite anger look. Do you notice when she does that? She juts her chin out and she puts her upper teeth under her lower teeth and she goes, hmm.

26:00Ben Mandelker: Yes, this is when she has not only the claw hands, but she has the okay symbols. Yes.

26:07Gretchen Rossi: And no. Okay then, okay. Okay then, fine.

26:11Ronnie Karam: And she's like, I have been Tamara's friend and I have stood by her to the detriment. Is that too big of a word for this audience? Okay, I'll keep going. Just replace it with something else. To the detriment of my relationship with other people. And I think the bare minimum, you can text back. I think I've earned that.

26:32Ben Mandelker: You, you, what you're doing, you're going to social media and multiple podcasts before talking to me. And how can you understand how that might be upsetting to me? To me.

26:44Gretchen Rossi: Why can't you understand how I was feeling? I was feeling all alone. Not even a bear would talk to me a big bear. You know how that feels? You know how that feels?

26:52Ben Mandelker: I do. I do. I do. No, you don't.

26:55Gretchen Rossi: You're trying to make me sound like a bad person. Well, I'm sorry, Heather, that I didn't make you feel more comfortable when I was in the freedom position, darn on the ground.

27:06Ben Mandelker: That's not what I'm saying. What are you saying there? I was reaching out to you. I was reaching out to you. Rich person to less rich person, also known as a poor. And caring. And I was being a very caring person, as I've learned in my Stella Adler acting classes. You go like this. Oh, how are you? That's caring. Congratulations. And you threw me out. I felt like I wasn't important to you.

27:33Gretchen Rossi: Do you know what it's like to have to relive while your daughter doesn't want to talk to you? And in the meantime, your best friend gets brain cancer. I'm going to do so much. I'm going to do so much.

27:48Ronnie Karam: Stop it. None of those are an excuse to be evil. My daughter hasn't talked to you forever, okay? That's not like fresh news. And this teddy cancer stuff is not your fucking free pass to be a dick to everybody. I can't even believe she's using it like that. That is so gross. Stop using other people's pain and real life traumatic storylines to your own advantage. That is so gross. Who does that?

28:13Ben Mandelker: It was so gross, but so hilarious. Cornered that she pulls out. She pulls both the Sydney and the Teddy card at the same time. And Heather just has to be like, she does that thing where she puts all her force in her face right into her lips. Clothes just. I'm sorry.

28:30Ronnie Karam: Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry about that. But she tells us, you know, I feel bad for her, but she's not going to listen to me. We don't have any room to continue this conversation because she's just, you know, she's basically like, okay, she's whipped out the trauma cloak. So this conversation's over. What are you going to do?

28:49Ben Mandelker: I thought about using my Reba McIntyre card and talking about the time that Reba ignored me when I went to Spago's. But she's not going to listen.

28:57Ronnie Karam: I know what it's like to be frozen out. Have you ever heard of a little show called Happy's Place? Well, I hadn't until it had already been filmed.

29:09Ben Mandelker: Listen, you can always call me or text me, even if you just want to vent. And I will check that voicemail later. So just know that.

29:18Ronnie Karam: Just know that somewhere Alfredo is reading that and thinking, should I give this to Heather or is she going to throw the phone at my face again?

29:27Ben Mandelker: Did you know that if you order fried oysters in a baguette in New Orleans, they call it an Alfredo?

29:32Gretchen Rossi: Amazing. Okay, now, serious question. What's more beautiful? Did siramisu here? Or the way to...

29:42Gretchen Rossi: Stop.

29:49Ronnie Karam: So then we go to Katie and Matt at home, and their son's there. And she's like, Honey, make me a martini. He's like, You want a martini, Mom? She's like, Mommy needs a martini. Okay, just shut up. Do your coloring or whatever. it is you're going to do. Go to bed. I don't even care. Okay. So then they sit down and then meanwhile at Goat Hill Tavern Jen shows up to meet Emily and Gretchen comes and Gretchen's like

30:16Gretchen Rossi: what is this place?

30:20Ben Mandelker: Gretchen did not even bother looking on Yelp beforehand to see where she's going. Also Gretchen has I guess now fully transitioned away from being like the Texas party girl that she was when we met her because she is in like a fur coat and she's just like dressed up like she's going to Javier's and they're just in a dive bar and she's confused. Well, meanwhile, Jen's standing there in like shiny black leather pants and like ready to throw down some bottles of Schlitz. Yeah. They look kind of crazy in this bar, but yeah,

30:48Ronnie Karam: it is pretty funny that Gretchen is now acting like she's way above being in an Irish pub.

30:54Ben Mandelker: Yeah. Like she's never been in one of these places before when like, this was her whole storyline. so the waiter comes over and emily is like so i hear your espresso martinis are not great so i'll take one god she's just so fucking rude wherever she goes she's so rude and the guy doesn't even care he's like whatever whatever lady espresso martinis are my thing now so emily talks about our son has an eating disorder and you know they just don't know how to parent him etc. And like she just doesn't know how to do it. And Jen's like, let's play pool. She's like, I don't want to talk about it. So we go back to Katie.

31:32Ben Mandelker: And she's like, Oh, Matt, the final night, Gina comes in and she's like, I called the reporter. And he confirmed that you did tell geeky the story at Mastro's. And did you hear Slade talk about this? Did you ever hear Slade talk about this roofie stuff? And Matt's like, yeah. And I can say this, you didn't make it up. So that's all that needs to be said.

31:52Ronnie Karam: So now we have confirmation that Slade was basically telling everybody that Gretchen was roofied that night. So Katie's like, yeah. All right, guys. Well, after Nola, I felt like I had been thrown under a bus. I gave Gretchen the chance to come clean when I brought up Mastro's, and she didn't. And she said she was sure to hammer director the night of Naked Wasted. It was clear as day what she said. And Jen backing Gretchen tells me all I need to know about those two.

32:19Ben Mandelker: So now this trio is going to implode because now Katie is saying that, yes, she did say this to Kiki Monique, but she didn't admit to saying it because she was covering for Gretchen because Slade had already called him and said, deny, deny, deny, deny. So that's what she was doing. But now she's getting screwed because Gina called the reporter and she's basically saying that Jen is continuing to cover for Gretchen, but Katie is not going to cover anymore. but just to be clear she still has not admitted to calling kiki she's yes she is not she's just

32:57Ronnie Karam: say now somehow it's a mystery how kiki found this out but gretchen did say it gretchen did say gretchen slay did say it so that's where she's at right now so now back at the bar jen's like okay let's talk about this katie thing you know i want to support katie but i mean what the hell

33:12Gretchen Rossi: is going on and gretchen's like yeah when i had time to decompress i thought am i being naif am I? Like what's happening?

33:20Ben Mandelker: And Emily's like, yes. Yes, you are. So then Gretchen's like, yeah, Katie originally

33:26Tamra Judge: told me that she had no problem saying that she would try to clear this up.

33:30Ben Mandelker: And then we see a clip of Katie saying like, you know what? I'm going to call Kiki and we'll bring it up on camera. But then all of a sudden Kiki, I mean Katie backs out and is like, no, I'm not going to call Kiki anymore. She's like, yeah.

33:42Ronnie Karam: You know, it's just really late over there. I was going to say FaceTime, but am I really ready for her face? I don't know if I'm really ready for that. I mean, she'll just lie anyway. She's just going to lie.

33:52Ben Mandelker: So Katie's like, well, I mean, why am I to blame? Gretchen Slade are the ones spreading all this and making this story up and real talk. Wait, back it up. Am I saying what really happened or am I protecting Gretchen? Like, what do you want me to do? Protect the producers. Imagine the producer said, please protect Gretchen.

34:11Ronnie Karam: So it's really highlighting the producer's shadiness and all of this too. So the producer is like, okay, well just tell me what really happened. Let's go there. She goes, okay. All right, gather around everybody. Here's another version of the truth by Katie. After Matt spoke to me when this info about Kiki came out, Slade called Matt and said, tell Katie to say that Gretchen never said it. And I have to hold the line and protect Gretchen. So if Kiki's if Kiki's claiming that I knew this story from Gretchen, the only time I've hung out with Gretchen was with Ryan and Jen. So they would have heard it.

34:49Ronnie Karam: So why am I blamed for it? Why isn't Jen in trouble for telling Kiki Monique is basically what she's saying, right? Like, why am I blamed for calling Kiki Monique when Jen and Ryan were also there and heard this story? Because Katie, we know that you went to lunch with Kiki Monique. We don't know that Jen went to lunch with Kiki Monique. I mean, Katie, girl.

35:08Ben Mandelker: This is also so fucked up because we all saw, whether there was roofies or not, we all saw that there was a plan to get Gretchen wasted at that party. There was a plan to supply her with alcohol. And of course, you're responsible for what you put in your body. But like we all saw, we all know it. It's a legendary scene in Housewives lore for a reason. And yet somehow we're now in a place where Gretchen has to be protected. Like, oh no, Gretchen said she was roofied. Like we can't let that out. Let she said that like Gretchen was the victim here. Gretchen was like, if you ask me, she was the victim.

35:43Ben Mandelker: And now all of a sudden, and now all of a sudden, like we, it's like, Oh, we have to tiptoe around the fact that she felt like she was roofied. Like, I kind of think that's bullshit too. Like she should be allowed to say like, yeah, I think I was roofied that night. You know, especially.

35:56Ronnie Karam: I'm wondering if Gretchen is worried about getting sued or something.

35:59Ben Mandelker: I think she's worried about getting sued, but from Tamara, or she may be worried that Bravo would not be happy with her saying that because it makes Bravo look bad because it happened on their watch. And she doesn't want to get on the bad side of Bravo. Whatever it is, she's very self-conscious about actually being on the record as making a big claim like that. And the truth is this, a lot of people, you hear from so many people. First of all, there's a lot of people who get roofied, which is scary. But there are a lot of people who will say, oh, I went to a bar last night and like I only had like two drinks and I was like on the floor in a way that I don't normally I think someone put something in my drink people will say that a lot and I'm not and it's not discounting it but that's something that people say and I don't think that Gretchen should be like afraid of like

36:45Ronnie Karam: having said that ever yeah um and someone sent us a dm this week saying or maybe it was a comment or something saying you guys please don't make it sound like Ryan raped Gretchen Ryan didn't raped Gretchen. She said no, and he laid off. So please don't make, okay, first of all, we never said that Ryan raped Gretchen, but if you watch that episode again, no, that was not as simple as somebody saying no, and then somebody backing off. That was her getting progressively more and more wasted. She's completely out of it in the whole episode. And he's over there like putting things in her boobs and he's on her with his hands all over the whole time, following her into the bathroom coming on to a really heavy he did not she said no and he did not just walk away it was trying to convince her and trying to do all this shit which you guys know that if this was to get today's standards that would not fly at all i can't even believe it did back then but we're not saying he raped her but we are saying that man is an extreme fucking creep and so is his mother and they're it's nuts that they got away with this and she's even back here and it's nuts that she's bringing this all back into the public eye because it was bad it was really really bad And I'm not being a Janet or an alarmist by saying that.

37:58Ronnie Karam: It was bad. It was bad. It was bad.

38:02Gretchen Rossi: It was bad. It was bad. And I don't feel bad saying that. And by the way, the commenter was totally nice.

38:07Ronnie Karam: I'm not yelling at you. I'm just saying like, come on, watch it again.

38:11Ben Mandelker: But it's interesting because the whole focus of the argument is now shifting into like, did Gretchen say it? Did Gretchen not say it? And I'm like, if she said it, I think she's well within her right to say it. She is.

38:24Ronnie Karam: And that's what I said last week. Like if she says she was roofied, I would believe it because we saw the footage and she looked like she could have been roofied. So I would I would totally believe that. And this is also another very typical example of what happens, I think, a lot of times with victims where she's now being villainized by the perpetrator. basically it's like all these years later you're relitigating it and you're reframing it as if you're being victimized by gretchen somehow and that's absolutely fucking bottom of the barrel

38:56Ben Mandelker: it's gross so basically katie feels like a pawn and she thinks that uh gretchen has been caught in a lie and just also kind of a shame because these these three are kind of like i like that their little trio. I like that they like they're dealing with Tamara and Emily and Gina and I just, I like them as a trio and it looks like they're gonna fall apart, which is what Tamara's plan was.

39:24Ronnie Karam: Yeah, and Katie's whole victim act here is ridiculous too. You know, Katie, you were the one who took this information straight to a fucking podcaster, I mean, a radio person and laid it out there. Like, who does, like, that is bullshit. it you know like i'm team katie for most of this because even though i know she's a liar she's still fighting people she's still fighting the person that i think is the worst she's fighting the good fight right so i mean obviously she's been full of shit through a lot of this but you can't be like oh now now i'm the victim because gretchen won't admit to saying it you should never have done what you did katie come on like i like you but your your rewrites are just too much at this point or Just apologize for fuck's sake.

40:07What you did was gross. Or Katie should just live in it.

40:12Ben Mandelker: Because guess what? If she falls out with Gretchen now because of this, it would have been the same as if she had fallen out with Gretchen because she said, yeah, I did tell Kiki Monique. And wouldn't you rather fall out while you stood in your truth? And then people were like, yeah, I like that she owns what she says. But instead, she's falling out in a position where we say, well, Katie, she says that she didn't say it. And then she always comes back and says, well, I did say it. So, like, Katie has to, I think, be just more, if you're going to fall out with him anyway, then just be more comfortable saying, like, yeah, I was messy.

40:45Ben Mandelker: She's getting better, but she's not quite there yet. No, she's not even close.

40:49Ronnie Karam: And then she turned on Kiki Monique. I mean, she's been all over the Instagram and everything else. And this show saying Kiki Monique's just a fucking liar now. And so what does she lie about exactly? Because you went to, yeah, now Kiki's the liar. So you went to lunch with Kiki. Then where did Kiki get the information about the roofie if it wasn't from you? Like, it doesn't even make sense that Kiki would just happen to make something like that up when all this happened at Mastro's. Like, your lies don't even make sense now, Katie. Come on, man.

41:17Ben Mandelker: Yeah, Kiki's not going to be like, let me just start up. Like, let me create a rumor about something that happened 12 years ago. No. So Gretchen is saying how she feels like she has to call Kiki Monique now, which is what they should have done all along. and Jen is saying, I mean, playing devil's advocate, if Gretchen did say this, then why would Katie repeat it to a blogger? Or a radio host. And Gretchen says,

41:43Tamra Judge: I need to get to the bottom of this. And so next week, Kiki.

41:48Ben Mandelker: Kiki makes her grand appearance on Orange County and we're going to see what happens to settle the score and put it all out there.

41:56Ronnie Karam: Yeah. Oh my gosh. What a mess. But this was really a good episode and all these things came unfolding that I didn't think were going to unfold. I mean, really? These are the best seasons.

42:06Ben Mandelker: The best seasons are when there's like a small thing and a build and then something else grows out of it and gets bigger and bigger and bigger as opposed to the bad seasons are the ones where they try stuff and it doesn't work. So it's this episodic like here's another three-week storyline and here's another three. But this is just like it's growing, it's snowballing. They're whipping themselves into a frenzy over something, honestly, that like really is not worth whipping themselves into a frenzy for. but they're doing a great job at it.

42:32Ronnie Karam: Yep. Good times, everybody. Well, thanks so much for being here, everybody. We will see you Monday with real housewives of Miami and crappy hour, which will be at 5 30 PM Pacific time live over on our YouTube. You can also find links on our Instagram or it's a free post on Patreon. So go check that out.

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44:27And our super premium sponsors. She's VVIP, it's Amanda V. Can't lose when you're with Amy Baldwin.

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45:58Ben Mandelker: I'm having my hot Caesar summer, Ronnie. Yes. Caesar sauce. I feel like we don't talk about Caesar sauce enough because it's so, so good. I love to dip everything into it. Have you ever dipped fries in Caesar sauce before?

46:09Ronnie Karam: I mean, I just have. It is delicious. Caesar sauce is like a Parmesan, garlicky blend with some lemon in it. And you can dip anything in there.

46:17Ben Mandelker: One thing I have been known to do is to stop over at McDonald's and go to the drive-thru and get myself a Caesar snack wrap and just dip some fries in the Caesar sauce. Also, the Krispy strips in the Caesar sauce. Honestly, try it. It's really good.

46:32Ronnie Karam: Listen, I say if you put Caesar sauce on something, that automatically makes it better. Yes, that's really all you need is the Caesar sauce.

46:40Ben Mandelker: I think I just want to have just a constant supply of Caesar sauce and put it on things at all times.

46:46Ronnie Karam: Yeah, I'm a straight up French fry and Caesar sauce kind of a boy. That's what I love. And that's how I'm going to go down.

46:52Ben Mandelker: Right now at participating McD's, the$2.99 Caesar snack wrap is making me rethink my go-to order.

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