#2985 RHOC S19E08 Part 2: Lie Deflectors

0:00Ben Mandelker: There's something about fall that makes you want to slow everything down. Cooler mornings, longer evenings, a home that feels like it's exhaling.

0:07Ronnie Karam: Pura fills every room with the sense of the fall automatically, so your whole home feels like autumn the moment you walk in.

0:14Ben Mandelker: Right now, get a free diffuser plus 20 % off select curated sets.

0:18Ronnie Karam: Visit Pura.com to bring the season home. It's a new era, a new reality, and a new obsession. Stassi's back making an entrance and making it unforgettable in the new series House of Stassi

0:31Ben Mandelker: watch new episodes Wednesdays on Freeform and streaming on Hulu reality royalty returns unfiltered unpredictable and unafraid to say the quiet part out loud calm on the outside crisis on the inside

0:42Ronnie Karam: get ready for a raw inside look at her world balancing family friends career and chaos no apologies no holding back

0:50Ben Mandelker: it's Stassi direct from the source and nothing like anything you've seen before, from her husband Bo's crossroads to bestie Katie M's brutal truth bombs

1:01Ronnie Karam: to constant sister strife. Expect tons of inner circle shade. Amid the dreams, the drama, and the dark passenger, she's willing to not just challenge the status quo, but change all the rules.

1:14Ben Mandelker: Don't miss one of reality TV's most iconic voices on her terms. Prepare yourself for the good, the bad, and the Stassi. Watch the new series House of Stassi. New episodes Wednesdays on Freeform and streaming on Hulu.

1:35Watch What Crappens

2:01Ronnie Karam: like hey wait a minute i didn't hear part one guys it's because we put out a lot of recaps go back and listen to part one okay it's before this one bye enjoy the show so then dun dun dun dun dun

2:13Ben Mandelker: speaking of which here's tamra so that's your question i'm sorry to interrupt you but just to answer your question i think it's because when they thought tamra quit and was off the show they

2:24Ronnie Karam: didn't give a shit they were just ready to ghost her forever but now that they know she's coming back and that she can traumatize them for another season they're like oh we better be nice but exactly i think that that should show tamra how much these people think of all of her because they're immediately all ready to write her off and never speak to her again that's exactly correct

2:42Ben Mandelker: so she shows up and she's like you thought you can't get rid of me that quickly bitch back so emily's like oh wow are you mad at me she's like well i'm just sad sad that you didn't call me batch. He's like, well, no, I had a lot of stuff going on with Luke and I haven't shared it with you, but he has an eating disorder. And we came back from New Orleans, he had to regress. And I'm trying to say is I'm going to use my son's situation as a get out of jail card with why I didn't get talk, talk to you. And this is why you shouldn't be mad at me. And I'm like,

3:18Ben Mandelker: but like also this lady just threatened to quit the show, jeopardize the entire flow of the season. And like that could have messed up so many things for all of them. And they're just like, oh, yeah, welcome back. Like without anything. And I just feel like it's such a double standard when it comes to Katie. Like the amount of aggression that they show Katie and the amount of fury that's aimed in her direction.

3:44Ronnie Karam: So Tamara's like, yeah, yeah, we'll find my problem. Oh, because Gina, of course, runs up too. And she's like, you know, I genuinely love you. That's why I'm like, just go to fucking bed. you get it i was like yeah yeah i know part of my problem is that you know i'm finding this that and therapy it's just it you know you can hold on wait for this this is a huge breakthrough everybody i don't know how to practice emotion yeah but like don't push us away when you do it

4:12Ben Mandelker: like don't push us and emily's like when you're upset can can you like share with us god yeah

4:19Ronnie Karam: Yeah, Tamara really has a problem sharing when she's upset. What the fuck are you two on about? Like, seriously, could you please just find a better way to kiss ass? You've been kissing ass for a decade now. You'd think you'd be better at this.

4:32Ben Mandelker: Well, also, like, before Tamara got there, Gina was acting like, I'm so over, Tamara. I'm so over. And then Tamara gets there, and then Gina's like, okay, you know what? I might as well just get this over with. Like, she gets up from the sofa acting like, I'll say hello. I'll be nice. And I'll just whatever. We'll move on. And so you think she's gonna be like, hi, Tamara. But she goes up and she's like, you know what? Like, I miss you. Like, she's so like, you know, I love you. You just have to like, let me know. Like, I love you. I'm like, well, it's so fake. Her pretending like she is actually, like, it's not pretending.

5:06Ben Mandelker: It's that like the way she just craters to Tamara's will time and time again.

5:12Ronnie Karam: So Tamara's like, well, you've got Katie and this fucking girl. Everything's hurting my feelings. How can I not be upset about it again? And Gina's like, don't you worry about her. Okay, we've got to. We've got Katie. We've got a plan. We've got a plan. And I was like, yeah, today is going to be a personally pitiful, pivotal day in this group. Pivotal.

5:36Ben Mandelker: So Katie is like, I feel sick. I feel kind of sick. I'll be right back. Because Katie knows she's about to get busted. So she like goes to the bathroom and everything. And then Heather's like.

5:46Ronnie Karam: I mean, you show up to an event with a bunch of women. No one will look at you. No one will speak to you. Of course she's freaking, you know, of course she feels like shit. I don't know. Everyone's like, oh my God, she must be, she must like already know that there's a lie detector and she's already freaking. So Heather's like, Tamara, Tamara, there's homework.

6:08Ben Mandelker: Okay. Burning questions that you want to know. Like, it's like, yes or no questions. Like, you know, like, did you like, really, did you forget to call me? your birthday polygraph things easy easy stuff tamra

6:35Ben Mandelker: so they're like joking about what year it is like persian calendar hebrew year all that stuff katie finally comes out of the bathroom and emma's like okay everyone gather around i just want to give a little Persian New Year speech. I gave you all a pack of questions because I thought in order to move forward, maybe we need to ask each other some deeper questions and really get to the truth. Which by the way, none of these questions are deep. These are petty questions. But I thought we'd ask some deeper questions and get to the truth because I feel like there's a lot of things going on that are splitting the group.

7:05Ben Mandelker: So today what we're going to do is take a lie detector test.

7:10Ronnie Karam: oh thank you so much thank you so much i've never had one of those this sounds amazing thank you emily thank you for having me to your persian lie party this is going to be amazing and katie's just like great i can't do this i have a lot of a lot of trauma about lie detector tests in my dreams

7:28Ben Mandelker: please well i'm a truth teller so this doesn't bother me whatsoever bitch no this is not what I signed up for today. You know what I did sign up for? I signed up for a green smoothie at creation and I did not receive it. That's what I'm telling you about. That's what I signed up for.

7:49Ronnie Karam: Yeah. And Katie is like, yeah, I don't want to do this. And so here we go. And so they start going into the lie detector. We see them all going in separately. They're cutting it all together, but we see them all going in and Emily sits down and she's got her legs crossed and she's like, Oh, my God, this feels like a very Sharon Stone moment to me. And then she starts uncrossing her legs, and my dog started howling. I was like, please don't do this. Please don't do this to me. Yeah. No one deserves this. And how long have you been holding that line in? Because you set this whole thing up. Like, she set up the set, and then she's like, oh, wow, don't I look like Sharon Stone?

8:28Ronnie Karam: Oh, I've got a meatball in my pocket. Hey, wait, that's a meatball. Please don't hit meatball.

8:35Ben Mandelker: You took my dog. So then the examiner's talking about like, well, it's going to be reading your blood and your sweat and your breathing. And Gina's like, when is the body response? He's like saying it's like the breathing and everything. And the female examiner with her very intense bangs. I mean, she sort of looks like a side character on like NCIS. She's like, some questions during this test are just going to sound odd to you. It's like, let me see how you respond. The most important thing is that you don't move. because when you move, it looks like a reaction and a reaction looks like a lie.

9:08Ronnie Karam: So then you're saying what was sitting there, maybe like kind of nervously fiddling that everything might sound like a lie. I mean, why are we believing these people?

9:21Ben Mandelker: I know that's the thing. Polygraphs really, I don't think you can even really submit a polygraph in a court of law, right? I think there's no two.

9:27Ronnie Karam: No, but of course, Emily, the lawyer would be the one to bring up the most unreliable form of evidence to the show yeah so um the lady is like

9:37Ben Mandelker: is your first name emily yes is your first name jennifer i believe so thank you so much for asking me that my name is jennifer thank you what's your name uh don't ask me my name do you know

9:49Ronnie Karam: how to ride a bicycle yes bitch i also know how to ride a bicycle yeah i ride a hog that's what i You fucking pussy. Hey, you want to ride on my heart? You can't even do it, you fucking pussy. Okay, Tamara, calm down. Sorry, I'm learning the therapy. I don't understand the emotions.

10:07Ben Mandelker: So now we get into the juicy questions. The first one to Heather Dubrow, would you rather be a housewife of Beverly Hills? Um. Um. Um.

10:18Ronnie Karam: That was the best question. She's like, uh.

10:22Ben Mandelker: uh do would i rather have a house and be a wife in that house in beverly hills

10:33Ben Mandelker: we just don't see her answer she just she's definitely trying to be like she's furious but she's trying to be like super cool at the same time and it's a struggle then they ask jen

10:43Ronnie Karam: are you currently keeping any secrets um i don't remember secrets so no i don't really keep anything I don't even know my address, honestly. It's programmed into my car.

10:54Ben Mandelker: I don't even use that deodorant. So then she's like, well, what is half of 10 times 5? Oh, half of 10 times 5 is 5, right?

11:05Ronnie Karam: Oh, well, half of 10 times 5. So 10 times 5 is... 35. I don't know math.

11:17Ben Mandelker: Half of 35, 4. 10 times 5 is 35 Divide that by 2 you get 4 Thank you next question

11:26Ronnie Karam: Literal idiot I love it So they ask Heather if she can speak Russian And she says I played it I played Russian I was in the running

11:41Ben Mandelker: To have a part in Anora But unfortunately That went to someone else But I did learn a few words for that

11:49Ronnie Karam: Yes, I am still doing research on the role by having sex with Terry, though, because who else would do that but a prostitute?

12:00Ben Mandelker: I was in the running to be someone who ran the ice cream shop that got vandalized by young people in Brooklyn. Thank you. Thank you.

12:08Ronnie Karam: So that was a candy shop. I guess they had ice cream shop. No, I couldn't believe they destroyed that whole candy store on Coney Island. Isn't Coney Island going through enough?

12:17Ben Mandelker: excuse me but when i read for the part it was a frozen yogurt shop and when i didn't get it what i heard is that the actor insisted it be a candy shop and if they had worked with me they could have kept their original version and their vision of a yogurt shop thank you

12:34Ronnie Karam: uh so they asked gina if travis has big balls and she's like oh my god like i'm panicking right now because I haven't seen that many balls. Like, I think they'll be... So, do you talk badly about Heather Dubrow in front of your children, Emily? And she's like, oh, no! And then they ask Tamara, was she really told she was on the spectrum of autism? And so we see a flashback to her podcast with her going, I'm on the spectrum, bitch. I'm on the spectrum of bitch-tism, bitch. And then they ask Gina if she keeps Heather around for her real estate contacts, which I 100 % believe, too. Well, I don't think she said she keeps her around.

13:24Ronnie Karam: I think she said, like, I don't want to offend Heather because she's important to my business. They're all such liars. And none of these answers were true either. Okay, I won't get into that yet. We still have a long way to go. Yeah.

13:36Ben Mandelker: then uh did you call the paparazzi to meet you at disneyland what i don't even understand what this means and then uh did you make contact with slade's ex to dig up information which by the way this is such a gretchen question she asked this question like it's on the top of any viewer's mind like no one cares or remembers like oh like slade being a deadbeat whatever that was such a that was so long ago and to be like finally we're gonna get to the bottom of whether or not tamra called someone i'm like gretchen you can do better than that honestly yeah and they show us a reunion like

14:11Ronnie Karam: 15 faces ago and um where they ask her where slate is like oh michelle said tamra called her fishing for information and tamra say

14:25Ronnie Karam: um so then shannon is like well i'm really not looking forward to going in there for this i just I have nightmares. I have nightmares where I'm in a lie detector test, and they tell me, Shannon, you lied, and I didn't lie. I didn't lie. I told the truth. And they're blonde every single time, and they're giving me a lie detector test on the beach. And David is just sitting there eating a chip slowly, slowly, as Alfredo takes a grave for me and starts to lower me in while I've still got straps on my arm saying, here lie, Shannon. Lie door. here lies shannon bittor i didn't lie i didn't lie

15:08Ben Mandelker: like ma 'am just a yes or no question

15:13Ronnie Karam: well we got shannon's results back they're 97 pages she broke the polygraph

15:22Ben Mandelker: a recurring dream that i have is that i go to madagascar one of my favorite restaurants and the parrot looks at me and goes probably want a cracker and i say sure do and it turns out it was saying polygraph and i have accidentally signed up for polygraph it makes me very upset

15:36Ronnie Karam: so um now she goes in and they ask if she's had she made she made out with multiple men in newport and she's like oh you bet your bottom dollar i did do you want a friendship with tamra and now she's done and um now it's katie and gretchen's turn dun dun dun dun dun

16:01Ben Mandelker: so then the examiner's like please do not lie to me today and katie's like let me this makes me so anxious i just i don't know i don't know i'm just i'm anxious because well polygraphs don't work off of anxiety i'm like yeah but like if you move because of your anxiety the polygraph does get affected that's what you just said ma 'am that's your own evidence that you brought up first of

16:23Ronnie Karam: all what exam what polygraph examiner says please don't lie to me today before you sit down this lady is terrible at this whoever whatever actress they got is terrible uh so katie's like i'm just anxious and she goes well are you normally an anxious person and she's like with this group have you seen this group they smashed eggs on their lawn before a lie detector test party are

16:46Ben Mandelker: you kidding so then um uh so then downstairs heather's like gretchen have you spoke to her at all have you spoken to her and then jen's like no but she's very she's very upset of her something i don't know what i don't know why gretchen's so upset and emily says well i bet gretchen met with kiki and gina knows so of course like emily knows something and then um tamra's like get the lie detective did you see kiki yesterday kideena she's like oh my god my blood pressure is like going through the roof already and she's basically says like i know what's going on but it's not my place to say anything.

17:23So for once, all season, I'm not going to speak in someone else's place.

17:30Ronnie Karam: And so then we go to Katie's exam room and Katie's freaking out. She's like, oh my God, I'm so nervous. Can I close my eyes? Is that okay? Can I close my eyes? Do you have a teddy bear I can hung? That would be great. Can the teddy bear answer my questions?

17:44Ben Mandelker: Can I go to sleep?

17:47Ronnie Karam: Have you planted stories about Tamara in the media? And Gret's like, now katie oh my god my heart is pumping katie have you leaked any stories to the press and she goes no oh my god i feel sick oh my god who wrote this question oh my god oh do you have a paper bag do you have a paper bag i by the way i was so stressed watching this i was stressed for katie

18:11Ben Mandelker: because she was so stressed like it was honestly it did not look good for katie at this point i was like oh she's really acting super guilty and or maybe it could be the inverse where like you know you're innocent but you feel like you're acting guilty so then you act crazy but like oh i was really stressed about all this and so then they ask um gretchen like did you go to the hospital for naked wasted and she's like no and then um then then the lady asks katie did gretchen tell you she was drugged and went to the hospital and katie's like yes so then they ask kate they ask Gretchen, did you tell Katie and Jen that you were drugged?

18:45Ben Mandelker: And she says no. And then did you tell Kiki Gretchen was drugged and hospitalized? And Katie says no. So there's a lot of like, you know, there's a lot of.

18:55Ronnie Karam: But then where would. But it's so silly that Katie's even lying about this. And that's a huge one that she's lying about. Because what else? Where else would Kiki Monique get that? That's crazy. Kiki's not going to lie. Why would Kiki just make that up? Be like, oh, yeah, I talked to her. And she said she was roofied that day, Jacques. Go tell Dave Quinn. Like what? It's just such a random thing to make up about somebody. Yeah. And he's also claiming that Gretchen said it. So you're claiming that Gretchen told you she went to the hospital and was drugged, but you didn't tell Kiki Monique that.

19:27Ronnie Karam: But Kiki came up with that on her own randomly. Come on, Katie. Come on, man.

19:33Ben Mandelker: Yeah. So Katie is saying like that. She really hopes that all the naked waste stuff comes to light because she's tired of being the fall person for all of Gretchen's lies. and Gretchen's like, I know I was telling the truth, so I'm confident it's gonna prove my innocence and she's a liar. So then Katie's like, the truth always comes to light and Gretchen's gonna know I'm not covering for her anymore. So congratulations, you two have both fallen into Tamara's plan and are at each other's throats just as she wanted.

20:03Ronnie Karam: It's time for a commercial. It's time for a Crapins commercial.

20:11Ben Mandelker: There's something about fall that makes you want to slow everything down. Cooler mornings, longer evenings, a home that feels like it's exhaling.

20:18Ronnie Karam: Pura fills every room with the sense of the fall automatically, so your whole home feels like autumn the moment you walk in.

20:25Ben Mandelker: Right now, get a free diffuser plus 20 % off select curated sets.

20:29Ronnie Karam: Visit Pura.com to bring the season home.

20:32Ben Mandelker: This episode is supported by FX's The Shards, a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy. Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties, and excess.

20:49Ronnie Karam: At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders.

20:57Ben Mandelker: FX's The Shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu.

21:03Ronnie Karam: So now the results are here, and the lady comes out and she sits them all down. Emily, do you think you're a better lawyer than Shane? And she's like, I'm so fucking lootely. That's correct, you passed. Do you talk badly about Heather in front of your children? No. She goes, that is true, you pass that. Okay, already you're discredited. Get the fuck out of here. You're a liar. Get it out.

21:28Ben Mandelker: Get it out. You're a liar. Remove it. Clear the polygraph. Clear this woman. Clear the bank.

21:37Ben Mandelker: Valentina, get the polygraph out of here. Further. Away. Away.

21:43Ronnie Karam: Yeah, Katie's like, well, that's bullshit. So, Gina, did you say you keep Heather around for her real estate contacts? No. You passed. Bullshit. I don't believe it. And she's like, oh, thank the literal Lord.

21:55Ben Mandelker: Thank literal Jesus. Gina's like, well, I've never even heard of real estate contacts before. Like, they make contacts for real estate. Like, that's amazing. Are they like AccuVue? Like, I don't know about that. Does it just help you see kitchens better? Yeah. So, like, why would I keep Heather around for something I never even heard of before?

22:16Ronnie Karam: Well, I wouldn't have believed it anyway. But you asked a question. Oh, yeah, I did. I asked that.

22:27Ben Mandelker: You know, the whole thing with Gina using me for real estate connections is so silly to me. because even if she were, I would never give them to her. Not even an issue.

22:37Ronnie Karam: Okay, Tamara, did you contact Slade's ex to dig up information? I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember if she'd be sent to me or if I'd be sent to her. I don't remember. I just said yes. I spoke with her. I did speak with her. I don't know. It's not long to go ahead.

22:57Ben Mandelker: Yeah, Tamara's basically like, I said yes because I couldn't remember and I figured it would tell me I was lying if I said no. So I just said yes. And like, you passed.

23:06Ronnie Karam: You passed by lying. Only Tamara could pass something by fucking lying about it boldly.

23:17Ronnie Karam: So Gretchen's like,

23:18Ben Mandelker: you're just pissing her ass and it's going to prove that she's a liar if she doesn't admit the truth. She just wanted to hear anything to make Slade look like he was a deputy. There's a manipulation and a calculation and an intent behind every single thing that that woman does. Also, Slade's probably a bad beat. yeah well there's that too but also gretchen like i personally had forgotten about all that and you're the one who keeps on bringing up reminding us that slade like had dead accusations and also

23:41Ronnie Karam: that wasn't just stuff that tamra brought like she didn't just bring it up and that's where it came from it was in all the blogs and stuff too that lady was like didn't she post uh kickstarter asking for money for the kid's funeral because slade wouldn't pay i mean there were a lot of bad stories and they didn't come from tamra they came from her they came from the wife so maybe talk to her and i don't know talk to her so then uh the examiner says asked like the

24:07Ben Mandelker: question to tamra was did you do you want a friendship with shannon she's like yes you passed that and were you told you were on the spectrum of autism yes you failed that one maybe there's something to the polygraph after all

24:24Ronnie Karam: How could I even feel that one? And then we see a flashback to her talking to the therapist. And the therapist said, okay, so I remember. Do you remember when we brought up if the spectrum could possibly be a part of it? So it's hard to say until you get an assessment. So she never said you're on the spectrum. She said that you should probably get assessed for it, Tamara. But Tamara's like, that's bullshit. That's bullshit. I'm going to be some man soon.

24:57Ben Mandelker: So, Jennifer, did you befriend Tamara with ulterior motives? No, no, I didn't. You passed. Thank you so much.

25:04Ronnie Karam: Oh, God. Give me a break. Make me ask me to set Twinket bar, okay? Give me a break. So, do you trust Katie Janela? And Jen's like, yes, you passed that one as well. My bangs and I both approve. And so Jen's like, I mean, I know I can be naive, but I do trust Katie. I love Katie. Katie's so trustworthy. i trust her with everything i leave for my children i wonder if she'd sign a loan what's five times 50 divided by eight plus three i just don't know i still don't know

25:38Ben Mandelker: i'll ask ryan he's really good with math it always works out well for him so then katie is like um yeah she just likes katie is saying that it feels good to have a true friend because the polygraph says that like jen does trust her so then um do you have any serious reservations about marrying ryan she's no no i don't and then this lady goes yeah you reacted significantly to that question liar liar pants on fire is the scale that we judged and your pants are on fire wait a minute

26:04Ronnie Karam: does that mean that i failed that she's like yeah it was basically math she's like oh my god i failed

26:10Ben Mandelker: they just significantly failed that okay thanks for the editorial commentary bangs

26:21Ronnie Karam: i'm not believing i'm not believing this lady for two seconds where did they get her this party

26:26Ben Mandelker: sitter lie detector lady so uh party sitter did i say party sitter party say that's where she came from party sitter not even party city party sitter she's from zensations in newport beach

26:40Ronnie Karam: so Jen says she just doesn't she's just so nervous about getting married and that's why she has reservations because she doesn't want to go through a divorce again so Shannon made out with multiple men in Newport that was true and does she want a friendship with Tamara? Maybe I'm very confused okay that was passed even though it was confusing and Tamara's like yeah I do miss my friendship with Shannon I just think Shannon knows my heart and she knows that I've always been good to her which is why she won't speak to me for being really horrible to her but she knows I'm a good person and I love her which is why she hates me for being a bad person and hating her I know it's how I really can, I'm dumb

27:21Ben Mandelker: Shannon just always needs two seasons to get over something she takes a long time to get over but give her two seasons they'll be back and friends next season I guarantee

27:30Ronnie Karam: but also Tamara's fucking terrible I love that Tamara's like oh yeah she knows I'm a good person and I'm always good to her what no you're not when was this what season was this because i've watched them all ma 'am

27:44Ben Mandelker: then um my favorite question and reaction of the night heather would you rather be a housewife of beverly hills she goes yes yes yes yes and the guy's true it's an emphatic yes it's closer guys i love she immediately is like ready it's closer i live in beverly hills and i told them everyone's gonna be pissed and say you think you're better than us i say i don't think that at all i know it so let me be in beverly hills i'm next to drake already i'm next to bron lays from the lakers let me be there i'm with the rich people already i love that she uses that she lives in beverly

28:21Ronnie Karam: hills as her excuse when she moved to beverly hills trying to get on that show you dummy so they're like whatever no one's surprised and jean is like oh my god she's basically like she prefers a better commute i'm like you gotta drive on you gotta drive on i mean i think commute is not

28:41Ben Mandelker: nothing gina did you see his face when she came and met you in madagascar two hours each way yeah that's a lot to go hang out in one bedroom okay exactly that's a long drive just to go meet you at a Color Me Mine in Tustin. So then the next one, did you call the paparazzi to meet you at Disneyland? And Heather goes, no. Yes, you failed on that one as well. Well, I don't know what to tell you. I didn't call the paparazzi. I've already sworn on my children's lives. I didn't do it. Oh, I'm remembering now. I was in character, of course, because when I was auditioning for Nora, I had to play a woman who was calling paparazzi on a yogurt shop.

29:30Ben Mandelker: It all makes sense now.

29:32Ronnie Karam: I will never forgive Wendy Malick for taking that role from me.

29:38Ben Mandelker: When you see Wendy Malick in Anora, just know she earned that role the bad way. And I'll let you just think about how that works.

29:46Ronnie Karam: So, of course, Katie loves this because that was Katie who accused her of that. So Jen's like, well, I just don't know why Heather doesn't say, you know what? You know how amazing I am? I just pick up the phone and paparazzi shows up at Disney. You know, I would pick up the phone and they'd be like, who? Who are you? I mean, it's just so hard. It really is.

30:06Ben Mandelker: Poor Jen. Can't get the paparazzi to take pictures of her around Orange County. That's because many of them live in Los Angeles. They don't want to make the commute. So then now the big, here it is, the main event. Gretchen, did you tell Katie and Jen that you were a drug? I said no. That was truthful. And Tamron claps. Why is Tamron clapping? Because it's bullshit.

30:32Ronnie Karam: Because this is all bullshit. It was a sarcastic clap? Yes. So did you go to the hospital after Naked Wasted? I said no. That was truthful. Well, we know that's not true because she just said last week that she went to the hospital to Tamron Shannon, which of course they point out. So Tamron's like, yeah, I'm suspicious because I said point blank back. did you go to the hospital and she said flashback do do do do do i did say the next day yeah i went to the hospital because i was so sick so why didn't they bring it up and right then right then and there because this one thing this show does every single year is they go after one person and they just hammer them right and so i think there's just solidarity they're like this is the time we're hammering katie shanna doesn't want to turn it back to her she's just like let's just it's katie's on the chopping block let's just get let's just hammer katie we'll get to the rest of this stuff later priorities yeah they'll bring it up later i'm sure they're gonna be like you're a

31:32Ben Mandelker: fucking liar gretchen there is this which is that when gretchen said she went to the hospital maybe that was the lie maybe she never went to the hospital but for whatever reason she lied to tamra and shannon it still means she lied i mean she has two different stories so she lied with one of the stories i tend to he was lying then or she's lying now so yes this i think she's lying now i think that she i think she went to the hospital because it lines up perfectly with katie's new narrative so and that's the narrative that i enjoy the most so i'm gonna use my it's like a choose your own adventure you know i'm oh you don't know you don't understand the way that my brain is working like over time to get my workarounds for to be on team katie right now because it's not easy, but like I'm coming up with all the logic.

32:21Ben Mandelker: I'm doing all the warp logic to make it fit.

32:24Ronnie Karam: Well, I mean, look, we've seen Katie lie a zillion times. So as far as being on her side with that, no, I think she's totally lying about everything. But I do not everything. I believe that she's lying. It's just that she's lied so much about this leading up to it that now we literally don't know what to think. But she's completely untrustworthy. I will say that. But this cast is still disgusting. And they've all just been caught lying multiple times. So I just don't understand why it's okay to like kick one person out and bully them when you've just all proven to be fucking liars.

32:56Ben Mandelker: So now you've all you've all failed different parts of your polygraph. And then Gretchen, who actually passes everything, no one believes that that she's saying the truth. Everyone's like, this is a lie. This is not this is not right. So you all know each other lie. It's all proven that you guys all lie. If you're to take this on face value and you all believe that each other lie.

33:16Ronnie Karam: But they're also all discrediting the lie detector test at the same time. That's why this cast is so dumb. Tamara's like, well, that's not true. This lie detector is bullshit. And Heather's like, well, that's not true. This lie detector is bullshit. But then when it comes to Katie, they're like, oh, no, this lie detector is 100 % correct. Get her out of the house. Remove her. Dummies. So did you tell Katie that Gretchen said she was drugged and hospitalized? And Katie says no, which we all know is a damn lie. and she's like you failed that one did you play the recording of shannon for alexis no you failed that one too did gretchen tell you she was drugged and went on went to the hospital yes you literally said yes

33:58Ben Mandelker: kitty goes it's a polygraph

34:03Ben Mandelker: so um uh then gretchen so then heather's like did she pass that one no she failed that one you did the worst out of everyone

34:13Ronnie Karam: yes and she goes and those questions for you about Gretchen you felt those very badly very badly I say as a professional what the fuck oh my god this is like the boy who cried wolf I mean Katie's lips are moving she's lying did you get that okay no you're too far behind the bush come a little bit out I don't want bush leaves okay you got it oh god dave just got my pictures i didn't call him though he just he already knew we were going

34:44Ben Mandelker: to be here i also just enjoyed heather mangling the thing you're supposed to say how do you know when katie's lying her lips are moving but instead she's like this is like the boy who cried wolf katie's lips are moving so she's lying i was like oh heather you really mangled that one up i say that as someone who mangles things every single day on this podcast that was a big mangle

35:04Ronnie Karam: so katie is like i didn't lie gretchen we sat at dinner and everyone heard it i'm not the only one saying this jen was there ryan was there matt was there tamar's like what dinner what dinner did you have i've checked the lights in mosaic no she's talking about when we went to maestros

35:25Ben Mandelker: and katie is like she's like slate even called matt and said don't share this No, he did not. You were literally making this up. No, I'm not. Jen, Jen, help me out. She's like, why are you looking at me? I'm still trying to figure out five times ten. It's a lot. A lot of numbers. Because I'm not lying.

35:42Ronnie Karam: Well, first of all, I met with Kiki yesterday, and she told me that you said that to her. And Katie's like, I didn't. I swear to God. I mean, listen, you said that you went to the hospital and that you were drugged, But I didn't tell Kiki. She just made that up on her own randomly after having lunch with me, even though it was the truth. But she didn't know it was the truth because I never told her anything about it. Katie, oh, my gosh, Katie, you're so bad at this. Like, I can't with you.

36:13Ben Mandelker: Wait a second. Oh, we're talking about Kiki Monique. Oh, I thought all these questions were about Kiki from Miami. Oh, yeah. No, that's why I failed the polygraph. You guys, everything's fine. Everything's fine. So Jenna's like, no, we were sitting there. and you know we talked about this and i said did she did she say she was sick as shit and gretchen's like and i said i was so sick that i should should have gone to the hospital that's what i said now let let's say gretchen is telling the truth right here is there just any room for like the possibility that something was misheard like why does everyone think that everyone hears things perfectly oh my god my memory is so bad like how many times do i mangle all sorts of just headlines i've just read how many times do i forget all sorts of little tiny details it's called getting old and i just don't know why there's just no there's just no um space for that because gretchen

37:10Ronnie Karam: said on camera trying to hide her face and whisper so that she wasn't heard that she did go to the hospital because she felt so sick i mean she said it to tamra and shannon we saw it they showed it in this episode. So, I mean, Gretchen's lying. Gretchen's just fucking lying. She's lying about something. So Katie's like, it has to be wrong. I'll take it again. I'll take it again. I know 1 ,000 % I told the truth wholeheartedly. Well, maybe except for that last part. But, you know, even then, like I kind of told the truth. I mostly told the truth. I'll take it again. I'll do it again. And Gretchen's like, I feel like an idiot because you could just stop there.

37:45Ronnie Karam: And you're right. And Gina's like, by the way, you're trying to chuck me under the bus and tried to tell her that I said last year, insinuating that I was racist. What you said was fucking problematic, Gina. It was. It was. And she has the right to tell her experience to someone else. And that was caught on camera too. We all saw it. So...

38:07Ben Mandelker: Yeah. Gina, this one... And also, how dare you even try to bring that into this? How dare you try to get some sort of sanctimonious upper ground in this situation that you're really not part of by by injecting this part in like you were wrong there sorry there's no there's no wiggle room for me on that one so katie is katie and katie explains she's like she grew up in a predominantly white suburb and sometimes people don't know how racially charged they sound and she says i don't think gina knows that it came out that way but it did and it made me feel horrible because you're also basically shaming her like if katie if katie says i'm like i want to showcase asian designers and she hasn't done it yet.

38:45Ben Mandelker: You're shaving her and making her feel shitty. And it's like, I just don't think it's obviously not Gina's place to do that. Yeah.

38:52Ronnie Karam: So she's like, you've lost your credibility with anybody here. Yeah, Katie, maybe you should go. Okay. Okay, Emily. You set this up for about six years. Yes, true. And Emily is just saying this because she set it up because she's so mad that the nanny heard her talk, the nanny, that her kid said that she talks it about how to do bro. I mean, how childish are you that this is how angry you are about something so fucking stupid? It's just so stupid. So Katie's like, okay, I'll go. But you did say that to me. And Gina's like, you should have addressed it then and not gone to the press about it. So now Katie leaves and she's talking to the producer outside and she's like, this is bullshit.

39:37Ronnie Karam: I didn't, I don't, I didn't lie, Kendall. And he's like, so Gretchen did tell you that? She's like, yes. And Jen was sitting right there, and that's what makes me so upset. She heard it. So Katie's mad because Jen didn't back her up, and she could have. But, you know, look, Jen could have backed her up, but you're the one who got messy and ran. I mean, look, ultimately, Katie did all this to herself. So there's part of it that's just like, you can't do this to yourself and then get mad at your friend for not getting pulled into your war. She didn't choose to go blab this to some blogger. You did.

40:10Ronnie Karam: You were the one who did.

40:12Ben Mandelker: And she had many exit ramps. At like any time she could have said, I mean, I said this. I said this to Kiki, but I didn't think it was a big deal because it was so many years ago. It was just we were just like we're just chatting. I didn't think it was going to come out. But obviously that was a lapse in my judgment. It was not meant to like throw you under the bus or like. Yeah, it was just gossiping.

40:31Ronnie Karam: You know, I was just gossiping. I didn't realize. Oh, my God, this show is crazy.

40:35Ben Mandelker: and i forgot that like you have to like you know be careful with with with these sort of things but um uh she had many chances to diffuse it and she didn't and that's you know that's that is definitely on katie but the gang up is just the gang up was is so vicious it's so over the top it's so bloodthirsty that you it just doesn't feel like the punishment meets the like fits the crime in this situation i think that's what we're all reacting to yeah i agree with you i think that

41:09Ronnie Karam: these ladies are a bunch of hypocrites and throwing like having someone over just to like gang up on them and throw them off and then refuse to film with them and all of this shit when you guys are still literally filming a show with tamra is crazy to me that's crazy so um now gret back inside tamra's like well wait she admitted to meeting with kiki and gretchen's like yeah she said she met with Kiki, but she said to me and Gina in the car, I've never even mentioned Gretchen's name to Kiki. And Jen's like, yeah, she told me she doesn't even talk about it. So I asked her, why do you meet with them?

41:43Ronnie Karam: Because you don't feel like your friends feel like you meet with those bloggers and discuss us? And she said, well, Jen, I don't discuss you. And then I said, well, then, you know, stop. They're not your friend. We're your friends. You should be going to people to discuss your friends. And Tamara's like, okay, so Gretchen, you never told her that you were roofied or went to the hospital? And she goes, no. She goes, because she sat right here right now and said slave the state called matt and she goes well he did call matt he did call matt but what i understood was he called matt saying what the fuck is your wife out saying and doing like what is she doing and now she's spinning something to some other thing in the middle of all

42:18Ben Mandelker: this annabelle appears in the doorway and waves like to her mom like bye like she's going off somewhere i'm like annabelle has been in the house during this entire crazy situation when they're yelling at each other there's polygraphs going on and you've got poor annabelle here okay emily

42:32Ronnie Karam: like classy talk about she just kind of waves her off yeah she's kind of waves her all we're bullying people go have fun at school or do whatever you're supposed to be doing right now

42:44Ben Mandelker: so katie's like matt and slade and ryan have all had phone calls about this and we're not supposed to share it so and so i'm like all through my head i'm like do i lie for gretchen do i not lie for gretchen and i'm done and no one is going to believe me but i can lay my head at night knowing I told the truth, and this might be the last time anyone sees me with this group of women. And so she gets up out of the chair. It says to be continued. And then the gossip going around today, I'm sure you saw this, is that we are not going to be seeing Katie for many episodes of Orange County. I don't know when she's coming back or not, but did you read?

43:21Ben Mandelker: There was an article. I wish I had saved the tweet. Beat me to the tweet. but basically it was like um the the tweet the tweet said something along the lines of yeah she's not filming i think because the women were uncomfortable with her right they refused to film with her yeah they asked her out which i don't know doesn't sit well with me to be honest i just think it's i think it's

43:46Ronnie Karam: they're all liars and i don't yeah team katie katie is a compulsive liar we've seen her do it a lot but i also believe certain things that she said i do believe that gretchen said that she went to the hospital and was tested for drug tested positive for drugs and i also believe that um heather talked shit about uh or emily talked shit about heather to her kids i believe that as well

44:09Ben Mandelker: so you know but then she lies about an issue with liars if emily has such an issue with liars i would love to see who she voted for in november that's all i have to say about that save the

44:21Ronnie Karam: children save the children all right everybody thanks so much for being here uh good times now you're all stressed but remember it's just an idiotic tv show and we just watched a bunch of women take lie detectors with all of their clothes layers uh layers of clothes so you know take it take it for what it's worth and still live your life it was hilarious let's not get

44:48Ben Mandelker: away from the fact that this was a hilarious episode and it was very stressful but deeply

44:52Ronnie Karam: entertaining to me yeah but team katie i hope she comes out on the top in the end we'll see we'll see because now we see all the alliances are changing because now tamra is suddenly friends with katie so now katie has tamra on her side so you never know when they're going to come out swinging and start getting the taking these other liars down so if we're gonna if we're gonna laugh and regale at one liar being kind of taken down then let's do it while they're all taken down i I believe in you, Tamron Katie. Team up and do your magic. All right, everybody. Thanks so much for being here. Happy weekend.

45:25Ronnie Karam: We will talk to you next week. Amazon Live is Monday, 4 p.m. Pacific time. Check our Instagram link and bio for links to that. And we'll talk to you next time.

45:35Ben Mandelker: Bye. Bye. Watch what crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King. It's always a party on Alison Block. Our way is the Amber way. It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's Always Automatic with Ashley Otto. Put your hands together for Carly Clapp. Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt.

45:58Ronnie Karam: She's not just a Sheila, she's a Daniela. Itchles.

46:01Ben Mandelker: We never miss her call, it's Diane Call. Aaron McNicholas, she don't miss no trick-a-less. Hava Nagila Weber. You'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go, we all go for Hugo. Jamie, she has no less namey.

46:15Ronnie Karam: She's our kind of mess. It's Jennifer Messer. Sips some scotch with Jessica Trotz.

46:20Ben Mandelker: She's our favorite streamer, Caroline Peacock.

46:23Ronnie Karam: Kristen the Piston Anderson. Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera, sera, whatever we'll be will Lauren Sills be. Brigging the funk, it's Leslie Plunkett. She gets an A from us, it's Lindsay D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Lino. Fresh as a daisy, it's Maisie McHenry. We love her on the rocks, it's Melissa Cox. Megan Berg, you can't have a burger without the Berg.

46:48Ben Mandelker: This is Livin' with Michelle Vivian.

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46:58Ronnie Karam: Yes, we canna, it's Sadana.

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47:14Ben Mandelker: Somebody get us 10 cc's of Betsy MD.

47:16Ronnie Karam: We're taking the gold with Brenda Silva.

47:19Ben Mandelker: Let's get real with Caitlin O 'Neill.

47:21Ronnie Karam: Don't get salty with Christine Pepper. Can't have a meal without the Emily sides.

47:27Ben Mandelker: Who, what, why, where, and Gwen Pentland.

47:30Ronnie Karam: Let's go into the woods with Guy Tubbs. It's our queen, it's Queen Laifa.

47:35Ben Mandelker: Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall. Hail the cork master, the master of the cork, Jennifer Corcoran. We got our wish, it's Jen Plish. She's not harsh, she's Jill Hirsch My favorite Murdo, Karen McMurdo We love him madly, it's Kyle Pod Chadley In the study, with a candlestick, it's Leslie Peacock Gee, it's Lisa H We're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Baron She's a whiz, it's Liz Sarthy Always killing it, it's Lola Alkalani

48:02Ronnie Karam: The incredible edible Matthews sisters She eases our woes, it's Melissa St. Rose There's a chance of meatballs, it's Rebecca Cloud

48:10Ben Mandelker: neat it's ronit feldman she's the queen bee it's sarah lemke we cannot tell a lie it's sarah tell of son shannon out of a cannon anthony please don't stop it's solely and pop let's take off with tamla plane it's always a good time when you're wasting time with bravo she ain't no shrinking violet kuchar we love you guys this episode is sponsored by mcdonald's i'm having my hot caesar summer, Ronnie. Yes. Caesar sauce. I feel like we don't talk about Caesar sauce enough because it's so, so good. I love to dip everything into it. Have you ever dipped fries in Caesar sauce before?

48:49Ronnie Karam: I mean, I just have. It is delicious. Caesar sauce is like a Parmesan garlicky blend with some lemon in it and you can dip anything in there.

48:57Ben Mandelker: One thing I have been known to do is to stop over at McDonald's and go to the drive-thru and get myself a Caesar snack wrap and just dip some fries in the Caesar sauce. Also, the crispy strips in the Caesar sauce. Honestly, try it. It's really good.

49:11Ronnie Karam: Listen, I say if you put Caesar sauce on something, that automatically makes it better. Yes, that's really all you need is the Caesar sauce.

49:19Ben Mandelker: I think I just want to have just a constant supply of Caesar sauce and put it on things at all times.

49:26Ronnie Karam: Yeah, I'm a straight up French fry and Caesar sauce kind of a boy. That's what I love. And that's how I'm going to go down.

49:31Ben Mandelker: Right now at participating McD's, the$2.99 Caesar snack wrap is making me rethink my go-to order caesar sauce at participating mcdonald's for a limited time prices and participation may vary there's something about fall that makes you want to slow everything down cooler mornings longer evenings a home that feels like it's exhaling

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50:04Ronnie Karam: Pura.com to bring the season home. It's a new era, a new reality, and a new obsession. Stassi's back, making an entrance and making it unforgettable in the new series House of Stassi.

50:17Ben Mandelker: Watch new episodes Wednesdays on Freeform and streaming on Hulu. Reality royalty returns, unfiltered, unpredictable, and unafraid to say the quiet part out loud. Calm on the outside, crisis on the inside.

50:28Ronnie Karam: Get ready for a raw inside look at her world, balancing family, friends, career, and chaos. No apologies, no holding back.

50:36Ben Mandelker: It's Stassi, direct from the source and nothing like anything you've seen before. From her husband Bo's crossroads.

50:44Ronnie Karam: To bestie Katie M's brutal truth bombs to constant sister strife. Expect tons of inner circle shade. Amid the dreams, the drama, and the dark passenger, she's willing to not just challenge the status quo, but change all the rules.

50:59Ben Mandelker: don't miss one of reality tv's most iconic voices on her terms prepare yourself for the good the bad and the stassi watch the new series house of stassi new episodes wednesdays on freeform and streaming on hulu