Chatting Gear & Gifting with Emily Pennington

0:02The holidays are coming and in my humble opinion the best gift you can give is adventure. Today we're talking about the gear that makes the best gifts for ourselves, for family and partners, or even for that one friend who wants to try backpacking or cross-country skiing. If you're planning on buying outdoor gear for your loved ones, you want to get it right. As any adventurer knows, quality gear can make a big difference, whether you're camping in the wild, hitting the slopes, or going for a run in your neighborhood. Today we're talking with REI expert advice gear tester Emily Pennington about which outdoor equipment is actually worth your investment.

0:42I'm Shelby Stanger and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.

0:55you might remember emily pennington from a previous wild ideas episode where she talked about the year she spent traveling to every single u.s national park in her work as a gear tester emily has evaluated and reviewed a lot of equipment for outdoor gear lab cnn underscored and currently rei emily is all about finding that sweet spot between gear that's lightweight durable and practical. So whether you're shopping for someone else or for yourself, Emily has advice to help you dodge the duds and find the best gear for your adventures.

1:32Emily Pennington, welcome back to Wild Ideas Worth Living. It's been a while. When we last spoke, you'd just written your book, Feral, which is fabulous, and you moved to Boulder. So what's been up since then? And just catch us up for people who don't know who you are. What was Feral about and why'd you move to Boulder? What's going on? Yeah, I'm stoked to be here. I am probably most known for my work with the national parks. I work as a journalist and a writer specializing in the national parks. I've been to every U.S. national park, and that's what my book, Feral, is about. And last time we spoke, I was in Los Angeles, and I was not stoked on where I lived.

2:11And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to pack up my van and move across the country. So I went for the literally greener pastures of Boulder, Colorado. I can see the flat irons out my window right now. And I'm so happy here. I feel like as far as wild ideas go, Shelby, I feel like this will be right up your alley. But I just I started dating someone who's like an amazing guitarist. And I was like, you know what? I'm in my late 30s. I'm just going to like start a rock band and learn guitar. Well done. So I'm in this band now. I mean, I also I mean, I still write. But when I'm not writing and hunched over my laptop, I'm in this folk rock band called Troubles Braids, which is super exciting.

2:51So like we're just, you know, running around, having fun on the side. I love that. I love that you had this wild idea to just move across country in your van. And then you actually moved to a great place to discuss what we're talking about today, which is gear. Boulder is probably one of the best places to test outdoor gear because you have everything right in your backyard there. Yeah, absolutely. And honestly, that's another consideration that I had when I was moving here because I wanted the 300 plus days of sunshine that you get in Los Angeles. But I also wanted to be able to just walk out my door to a trail or bike ride or, you know, drive 40 minutes and go skiing somewhere in the Rocky Mountains that is amazing and has incredible views like Eldora.

3:33so it has been I had a suspicion that it would be a boon to my writing career because so many so many of my editors and friends and colleagues are here or in Denver and it's an awesome place to test gear because there's a creek running right through downtown so water shoes hiking the flat irons are right here there's rock climbing it's amazing how fun so I want to since this episode's about gear this is this is a wild idea of a podcast so if you're listening We've never done a podcast like this, but I'm a gear nerd. So I'm just curious how you got into gear testing. Yeah, I jumped onto the gear team at REI way back in 2019, and I was testing things like hiking socks or coordinating literally dozens of testers for day backpacks.

4:21So I, yeah, I've been doing it for a long time. And yeah, it's very multi-layered, which I love. I'm curious, like when you test gear now that you write about, there's so much to take into consideration the people who make these they're like some of them i know like the guy at outdoor research is like an astrophysicist or an engineer like he started his company because he was at a trip where someone got frostbite and he really wanted to you know create gear that worked yeah um i think that one of the cool things about uh the brand side of gear companies is that you have these people who, you know, maybe could have made twice what they're making at a gear company being a literal textile engineer or, you know, a mechanical engineer, depending on what kind of gear they're making.

5:10But instead, there are these passionate outdoor adventurers who really do care about the experience that other people have in the wilderness. And to your point, I have done a fair amount of testing name brand gear against something on Amazon with like 3 ,000 reviews. And pretty much 100 % of the time, in addition to the Amazon gear not having a reliable warranty, a lot of gear at REI, for example, it's literally designed to last for at least, you know, five, 10 years. A lot of it comes with a built-in guarantee. But in addition to that, they are truly using these higher tech fabrics that if you take care of them, they end up being things that you will form almost like an emotional connection with because it's part of your outdoor story and your outdoor experience for years.

6:05I want to start with camping. What's your must-haves when it comes to gear? You know, I feel like you gotta have a good shelter. I'm like, I'm a sucker for either the really ultra light big Agnes tents, like the Copper Spur. I'm obsessed with that tent. When I first started backpacking, I wanted to save a little more money though. And I got the ultra light REI. I think it was like a quarter dome or a half dome tent. Those are great. You need a really good shelter. And you want to actually use your rainfly, which is something I found out the hard way one night. Yeah, you don't. I mean, it sounds cute to have your rainfly off so that you see the stars.

6:48But one time I was camping pretty close to the ocean in Big Sur. Yeah, exactly what happened. I had no idea the morning dew near the ocean is extreme. And so I woke up and I was like, why is my sleeping bag wet? It didn't rain. So I would, yeah, I would recommend actually using your rainfly and getting a good like ground tarp. If you're going to get an expensive ultralight tent, having the ground tarp that actually goes with the footprint is super key because then you can protect that like baby fabric floor that's super thin. Okay. So these are two things I didn't know. And I also camped by the beach.

7:23I didn't have a ground tarp and I took the rain fly off because I was camping near the water and it was like 70 degrees and sunny when I went to bed. I woke up soaking wet and was like, what happened. I also feel like I'm I really value my sleep and I will always pack a sleeping bag that is at least 10 degrees warmer than the forecasted low temperature because like there's nothing worse than being up at three in the morning shivering because it's 28 degrees and you're in like a 25 degree sleeping bag and you're you know you have all your layers on inside your sleeping bag and you're just trying to like make it through the night it sucks so much um so like I think I mentioned earlier I was actually just testing this new bag called the x-ped terra I think it's only like 250 bucks and it comes in like five different sizes so like a big tall dude could get a really good sleeping bag which I think that's like such a cool accessibility story in terms of like you don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get out and go backpacking.

8:31And I love that they're doing that. Well, I really like, I don't love sleeping in mummy sleeping bags. Like I feel claustrophobic. I get it. If you're backpacking, you got to have one, but I'm mostly car camp. I'm soft. I'm older now. I love those sleeping bags that just fold up like a quilt. And I'm really into like blankets. So like Rumpel makes a really good blanket. If you're cold and you don't have a warm sleeping bag, you just get one of those packable rumple blankets. I think REI has their own blanket. They're pretty awesome and useful. Yeah. And for car camping, you can literally throw a rumple blanket over your sleeping bag.

9:07Exactly. For like additional warmth. It's so cozy. You can make a little nest. This is the biggest question I get all the time. Hiking, boots, or trail runners? For me, it depends. If I'm carrying weight, like if I'm backpacking, especially if it's a longer trip and not just like an overnight. I'm a big fan of hiking boots that have a lot of stability and support because I'm getting older. My feet are kind of messed up. I want to keep doing the sports that I love. So like, I think I just got something called like the Hoka Kaha 2 and it's got this flared kind of heel that it, I could really feel it when I was backpacking.

9:49Like I'm the kind of person who rolls my ankles a lot even if I'm just walking on a flat trail and so I noticed that even with like a 35 or 40 pound backpack on I was like my heels were very firmly planted on the ground and I love that for if you're doing like a more rugged trail with a lot of rocks or roots that you're stepping over I think Solomon also makes some really burly hiking boots that are very well supported very stabilizing for your feet if you're going to be hiking with weight on. Are you a runner? I used to be, but I was also a dancer for so much of my life that I messed up my feet quite young.

10:28I'm a big fan of like La Sportiva and Hoka trail runners and ultras as well. If you have like, I have kind of between a medium and a wide foot, ultras are great if you like a wide trail runner. And all three of those, they make such a great variety. Like I do the super cushy, like cloud-like trail runners now that I'm older. I know a lot of people love the zero drop stuff, but I generally flip the shoe over and I look for something with really aggressive lugs because even if half the trails I go on are mellow, I'm really going to, for me, I'm really going to want that stability and that extra like grip.

11:05If it rains, if it's muddy, I like having something with a really grippy bottom. I'm ultra all day or my partner, he likes Vivo barefoot and we're big fans of foot health. And I find that the wide toe box has been really a game changer for me and being able to run better. Zero drop works for me. It doesn't work for everybody. And, you know, for running shoes like Brooks, ultra. But if I go hiking, I've never been on like a four day or over backpacking trip. the most I've done is like a night so I always just wear ultra running shoes and you know but I've never carried a super heavyweight backpack that wide toe box is good for descending too if you are backpacking I would also yeah I'd add that I love throwing super feet into whatever shoes I have whether it's a hiking boot or a trail runner they have running specific ones they have ski boot specific ones that just blew my mind last winter so super feet just for those who don't know are insoles.

12:07Yes. They're like these insoles. I think some of them are customizable now as well to your foot shape, but they basically, they'll take an amazing hiking shoe and make it like out of this world. They'll just make it so, so much more comfortable. You get more arch support. It just adds more for someone like me, who's like, who has feet that have just been through a lot for many decades. I, yeah, I really believe in foot health and I feel like anything that you have that's touching the ground and getting a lot of that strike force is worth spending money on. What about socks? Oh, my gosh. I'm also a sock nerd.

12:43I wrote a big – it was many years ago, but for REI, I wrote a big sock, like hiking sock guide. For – gosh, for hiking and backpacking, like the darn tough socks are just so good. Yeah, people love those. And they finally started making cute patterns. So I have these, like – I have these darn tough, like, critter socks that have raccoons on them that I'm obsessed with. And I wear them like just out hiking, like walking my dog in the morning because they make me happy that they have little raccoon socks.

13:22Since you live in the mountains, it's about to be snowboard ski season. Do you ski or do you snowboard? I ski. Awesome. I snowboard. So this is going to be perfect. So any must have gears for our winter adventures? Yeah, I just got my first like powder skis now that I'm properly in Colorado and I'm trying to get more expert at skiing. I got these Rossignol somethings, sole, rally, sole, bird, something like that. They're these amazing Rossignol skis and they're women specific and I'm obsessed with them and I kind of can't wait for it to snow. Like I love the fall colors here in Boulder, but I'm also excited to get on these skis again.

14:00I also just got my first nice ski boots. I think they're the solomon s pro something and i got my liners heat molded i got the super feet snow specific they probably make snowboarding ones too i got the super feet like for your ski boots so my arches are supported and i love it i love it i'm like my goal is to be able to ski all day very comfortably and not have weird foot aches that's a huge goal what about you for snowboarding i feel like the gears can be so different. It's so tricky. I mean, I got all my gear from Burton two or three years ago, and now it's probably like ancient. I think that's the hard thing is, is I'm one of those people who right now I'm going to go rent my gear from REI or from a local mountain shop wherever I go because I only ski a couple times a year snowboard.

14:48But for me, biggest piece of gear for me that's been a game changer is a neck gaiter. And I know that sounds weird, but I used to never wear one. And a helmet. I'm from the days where you just wore a beanie on the mountain and a helmet can make such a big difference. One, it's dangerous out there. It's good to protect your head, but two, they're really warm. Also good goggles. I have pterygiums in my eyes. I know it's gross, but I have surfer's eye from staring at the sun, teaching surfing. So I really need good goggles and good glasses. There's so many pairs of goggles out there. and glasses.

15:25I don't know. Do you have a favorite pair? I just got, okay, so I really, I love the Zeal goggles for skiing that have like the interchangeable lenses. I also, this is another reason I'm excited for it to be ski season. I got these, I learned that there's this thing called OTG goggles, which is over the glasses goggles. I'm not a contact lens wearer because my prescription's pretty good. I can see pretty well with these on. But you know, like most people, my prescription is getting a little higher as I get older. And so if I wear, these are like giant glasses I'm wearing right now, but if I wear my more slim compact ones, I got these Smith OTG goggles and you wear them over your glasses and they're designed so that they don't fog up.

16:10They have like a special nose bridge. So for glasses wearers, I'm excited because I think I'll be able to do more advanced ski stuff because I'll be able to see better. I think that would help me too. I actually wear glasses for distance. So that's really helpful and really good to know. I'm curious, like, is there any other underrated winter accessories that we should think about? Like, I've heard about heated boots. I'm really curious to try them. They kind of freak me out. But like heated socks, heated boots. Yeah. Sounds amazing. I had the Rossignol ones. They were actually, I would say heated boots are cooler than heated socks in my like, in my limited testing.

16:45I'm also like very ADHD though. So I I forget to charge things. So or I forget to turn them on. Like unless I'm freezing, I'll forget to like click the button and turn it on when I get on the lift. So I'm like wearing these heated boots and they're like doing nothing. So that's me. That's a me issue, though. I will say, yeah, they're pretty cool. If you are someone whose toes are always cold when you're doing snow sports, like it might be worth a look. in terms of just like little accessories especially like you know as we're thinking about like gifting a little bit I really love a nerdy balaclava like that's what I mean yeah like one of those things it might not look cool like Skeeda actually Skeeda just started making all these awesome like prints and patterns and there's cool floral ones I have a balaclava that matches a dog bandana from them so my dog and I can match if we go out in the snow which is so cute you must look really cool matching your dog I think I look awesome matching my dog.

17:45I know we didn't like prep you for this before, but like, I really like to travel light. Oh, same. And I think it's hard today. There's certain gear that is really good to travel with that makes things easy, traveling light. And there's other stuff that is challenging. And I guess there's one piece of gear right now I have in front of me. And like, that's this platypus water bottle. It's like just a piece of plastic filled with water. And it's amazing. You can just crumble it up, fold it in your backpack. I take this hiking with me all the time. And I've reused this since 2016. So it's old, but it's lasted.

18:18And it holds over two liters of water, maybe two and a half. I don't know. Anyway, are there certain things that you really like when it comes to like travel gear? Absolutely. One of my favorite things that I've been using for almost 10 years now that's still going strong it looks brand new basically and I use it all the time is um the Patagonia black hole oh yeah I have that black hole duffel yeah the black hole duffel is key yeah especially I would say the 45 liter um is the one that I'm obsessed with I tried the smaller one it was like a little too small for me the 45 liter it turns into a backpack it does have a compartment on the outside that is pretty waterproof I believe so you can either put shoes and you can put your computer in it or your computer yeah exactly you can figure out what you want but it's separate from your clothes so something like dirty shoes or uh you know a swimsuit could go in there theoretically um but there's so many pockets it's so customizable it's relatively weatherproof no one's ever gonna bat an eye it's a soft bag so i can squish it in between other bags because it's a soft-sided duffel and it holds so much stuff i literally went to svalbard um it's svalbard is like this amazing Arctic, tiny little, you know, archipelago with a small city.

19:37And I was there in late September. So it had just snowed and I was there for over a week. And I just had this little carry on duffel bag with massive, you know, like dinner outfits, big jackets, hiking boots. I had all of it and it magically with my laptop fit into this bag. So that's my favorite. So a soft bag is really key for travel. Is there anything else that, especially for traveling light, like clothes wise, that's something that's hard to find for me? Like, how do you look cute, but travel light? Yeah, I'm a huge fan right now of like, in terms of base layers. I love the artelike base layers.

20:15And I also love pretty much everything that Paca is doing. It's like this alpaca. Can you tell me the first brand you said? Yeah, artelike. It's this material that's called new yarn, which is like a thinner version of merino wool. And they make these really layerable earth tone or black base layers that I love because they're just so simple and modern that they could go under or over anything and not look like you just got off a hike. Like REI has a really amazing just store brand raincoat that if you get a raincoat that's in black, you can layer it over almost anything and you could go to dinner without looking like a total dirtbag hiker.

20:57So I'm a big fan of like bringing a very simple like black or navy rain jacket with me when I travel. You brought up another area of expertise that I wanted to talk about, material. Like a lot of the stuff I wear is synthetic and plastic and I don't love that. But I really do love the more natural materials like wool. And I'm curious how I can find more of it. Who's doing a good job with it? Yeah. So, yeah, it's so interesting, the tradeoff between synthetic and wool. I've seen personally by having certain base layers for about 10 years now that synthetic is definitely more durable than wool. It's not going to break down as quickly.

21:39It might be more water repellent. But obviously, like rain jackets and pants are going to be synthetic because I don't think you can have like a fully waterproof wool, you know, like rain pant. But that being said, wool is naturally antimicrobial, which means that it's not going to get funky and stink up as quickly if you're backpacking for like a week long trip in the summer. um I really am a fan of smart wools uh thermal like classic thermal crew or whatever they're called uh they come in a million different patterns and they rotate them every year so those are really fun uh new yarn is the fabric I was talking about earlier it is technically a type of wool I believe it's spun differently so that it can be really really thin but still be as durable as like a thicker base layer.

22:32And then like I mentioned very briefly earlier, I'm really in love with everything that this company Paca is doing. I just got this awesome pullover sweater that I lived in. I was just at this cabin for three days in the kind of higher elevation Rocky Mountains. And it doesn't rain that much in Colorado, but it rained all weekend. And I was like living in this alpaca sweater, riding horses and going mountain biking. And I was so toasty and so warm, even though it was wet. Like it repels moisture a little bit. And also wool and alpaca fibers naturally insulate even when they get wet, which is really important as a safety feature in case you get stuck out in the rain and you're not expecting it.

23:20What about like gifts under$50? This is a great question. I feel like I'm a big advocate for like more accessible, affordable outdoor gear. So I feel like I'm often trying to look for things that are under$50. Getting someone a good backpacking pillow, those are usually right around 50 bucks and often something that people don't have. It's like a nice little luxury item that only weighs a couple ounces. I don't think anyone can have too many hats. I love the like Sunday afternoons hats. They make really cool, like nerdy, like it covers your neck, like trail running and hiking hats. But I like the trucker cups because I like to look cool like you, Shelby.

24:02I actually got the new REI like printed bucket hats. They're so cute. And I have another one that's like a wide brim hat that folds up really nice that I just I take when I volunteer at the farm at the Buddhist monastery. And it's amazing. And it's cute. That's awesome. Yeah, I love them because like I wear a hat every single day of my life walking my dog in the morning because I don't want to put on sunscreen and feel greasy yet. So I think I have these like Wallaroo sun hats that I'll sometimes wear when I want to look a little more hippie and not do a trucker cap. So hats, food. What about headlamps?

24:42Yeah, you know, I believe it's BioLite. It just came out with a new headlamp that is rechargeable. So you don't have to worry about like not having enough AAA batteries with you on your car camping trip or whatever. And yeah, super critical piece of gear for like if you have to go pee in the middle of the night and you don't want to stumble around in the woods. Or maybe you get to your campsite kind of late in your cooking. Like having a really good like 300 or 400 lumen at least had lamp is great. Those are often right around$50 as well. I believe also a number of different backpacking food companies.

25:24Like this is – like if you want to gift something to someone you don't know very well or maybe someone who has everything already, a backpacker or car camper will probably never have enough fun food items. And I think they make these like three packs where maybe it's like a breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So like they're good to go for like a little weekend warrior expedition. Fun. I like those Lumi solar-powered lights. They are really cool and they're just kids like them. I also, I like space saver cubes, packable cubes from Eagle Creek. Other brands make them, but it's fun to like be a nerd and organize your gear.

26:01You reminded me of one more thing that I do love that I think is$40. The REI Flash 18 Daypack. Daypack is the best daypack ever. I agree. It has a hip belt. So if you carry like a bunch of water in it, it's not going to like sag down on your shoulders. It's so thin and small. So you can put it in if you're traveling for two weeks with just a carry-on, you can like squish it into your carry-on. You have a day pack for hikes or whatever. Yeah, we take it everywhere. Yes. Oh, my gosh. The 22 is also good, the 22 liter. But for under$50, the 18, I think it even has a little like ice axe or trucking pole loop.

26:40It has a cinch top so you can open and close it with mittens. Yeah, I'm obsessed with this pack. It's always coming in fun, cute prints, too. Like, I think they're constantly changing it. What's on your holiday wish list? Oh, man. I mean, I mentioned, like, I really just want to get a good mountain bike at some point. I went mountain biking this weekend at this, like, dude ranch that I was staying at for a travel story. And they had the really nice ones with the seat dropper posts. And I was like, this is incredible. They're so, the engineering that goes into like a good lightweight mountain bike amazes me.

27:15That's a pretty good wish list. Sounds like a Santa wish list. Yeah. Like Santa, please bring me a mountain bike down the chimney.

27:27The gear we take on adventures really does matter. We want things that last, that are crafted with care, and that feel like us. Over time, your gloves, your stove, your favorite camping mug and beanie, they all carry memories like an old photo album. When you set up your tent or settle into your camp chair, you remember every backcountry site you've slept at and the marshmallows you've roasted sitting around the campfire. Good gear becomes part of our story.