Living in the Wild for a Year with Amy and Dave Freeman

0:00Dave Freeman:If you spend three weeks in the wilderness, your body adapts and it becomes normal. After three months, anything else feels abnormal. Was it harder in the winter because it was cold and we had to spend an hour a day like cutting firewood to warm our tent and cook our food? And yeah, it was harder, but once it becomes your routine, you don't think of it as something that's hard. It's just life.

0:27Amy Freeman:That's Dave Freeman. Over the past 20 years, he and his wife Amy have built a life around long, human-powered expeditions through the wilderness. In 2010, they set out on a 12 ,000-mile journey across Canada and down to Florida, traveling by canoe, kayak, and dog sled. Then in 2015, they spent an entire year living in the wilderness without reentering society. No stores, no electricity, no roads. Just the two of them, a nylon tent, and the frozen lakes and forests of northern Minnesota. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.

1:16Amy Freeman:Amy and Dave are lifelong outdoors people. In their 20s, they each became wilderness guides in northern Minnesota, leading canoe trips through an extensive network of lakes called the Boundary Waters. Dave also started a nonprofit called the Wilderness Classroom, which allowed him to share his outdoor adventures with kids across the country. Amy and Dave Freeman, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. Excited to have you both on. Can we just context, like how old are you guys about now? Or maybe what decade of life are you in, if you care to share that? And then like, when did you meet?

1:53Dave Freeman:Well, we're in our 40s. It's a good decade. I'm a few years older than Amy. We met in a town called Grand Marais, Minnesota, which is right on Lake Superior. And Amy was guiding kayak trips in the summer. She was in grad school. I was running office space upstairs in the building the kayak shop was in. And we just started going paddling after work on Lake Superior. And yeah, that's how we met.

2:21Amy Freeman:Amy, what's the romantic version of this? The romantic version? Well, yeah, a little more context. So Dave had already started the Wilderness Classroom, this educational nonprofit where the premise is to go on these human-powered adventures and share them with schools. So it was really kind of before blogging was a thing, Dave was blogging basically for schools. And the technology was such that he was carrying a great big laptop and able to post like postage size stamp pictures on the Internet for these schools that were following along. And so hearing that, OK, this guy's coming to the shop to rent space upstairs and hearing a bit about his story, I really was intrigued hearing that he was doing these expeditions because it was something that I really wanted to do.

3:13Amy Freeman:And my big thing was wanting to kayak around Lake Superior. It's one of those things. You'll launch your kayak and, okay, I know I'm going out for a couple miles and turning around and coming back, but I always wanted to know what was beyond the next point. And so I said to Dave one time when we were paddling after work, like, hey, I'd really like to do this. Like, what does it take to do an expedition?

3:36Dave Freeman:You know, she said that she wanted to do it by herself. And then quickly I was like, you know, you probably should do it with somebody else. And then shortly after that, I was like, maybe we should do it together. So we sort of met and we started dating. And then the next summer, we set off and paddled around Lake Superior. And basically all of our friends were like, well, they're either going to be together forever. they're never going to talk to each other again. Luckily, it was the first.

4:09Amy Freeman:Amy and Dave set out to circumnavigate Lake Superior together in 2006. Their trip lasted two months and covered a thousand miles. A few years later, they dreamed up an even wilder plan, a human-powered expedition across South America. First, they would bike over the Andes Mountains. Then they would paddle 3 ,000 miles down the Amazon River all the way to the Atlantic Ocean. Along the way, they would document their journey through photos, videos, and audio recordings, sharing the experience with students across the United States.

4:46Dave Freeman:So we had, you know, many thousands of students following us and making decisions, and we were posting journal entries and scientific data and a podcast and, you know, doing all of that. And so then afterwards... This is 2010 and you had a podcast in 2010? No, that was 2007 and 2008. That's very early. Yeah. Yeah. So we were using satellite communication to beam into schools. We were posting audio files, which would now be called a podcast. We were doing chats. Before video chat, we would set up during this half an hour, this hour, come and join us in the chat room. and we had a moderated chat room where classrooms could ask us questions as we were typing answers, you know, in the rainforest.

5:39Dave Freeman:And so basically, we developed this whole system to bring students virtually to these wild places like the Amazon rainforest.

5:48Amy Freeman:Okay, do you have any stories about the Amazon? I've paddled like three days at the Amazon and never really want to go back. It was beautiful. And I got eaten alive by bugs. And I thought I

5:59Dave Freeman:was gonna be wearing a bikini and like oh yeah I don't know what's a good story Amy right well I

6:05Amy Freeman:was just thinking about the clothing it's like we lived in basically like full lawn sleeve shirts you know like quick dry material because you're just constantly like either soaked in sweat or we would jump in the river like jump out of our canoes to go swimming so like those and quick dry pants and rubber boots.

6:26Dave Freeman:Yeah. But you know, I love the Amazon. I mean, basically rather than setting an alarm in the morning, we would just be woken up by howler monkeys that were howling in the trees right before it started getting light. You know, I mean, it's just amazing. Like everywhere you look, you see new and different things that you've never seen before. You know, like it was common to swim with river dolphins, like pink river dolphins or gray river dolphins. We would set nets to catch fish to eat. And, you know, about half the fish we would pull out of these nets were piranhas. And the other half we just never really knew because, you know, there are more species of fish that live in the lakes and rivers in the Amazon than the entire Atlantic Ocean.

7:16Dave Freeman:It's so biodiverse that everywhere you look, whether it's underwater or in the treetops, you're going to see something new every day. It's just amazing.

7:27Amy Freeman:Did you ever get scared? Like piranhas? Like, what do you do when you catch a piranha? Well, the key is with the piranha, while it's alive, you really don't want to handle it because it can squirm around and those teeth are just razor sharp, right? So you want to bop it on the head, make sure it's dead before you're pulling it out of the neck. Okay, you guys are the craziest mofos I've ever interviewed. Like in my life, you're just these like humble Minnesotans who are like just doing it. It's amazing. So the Amazon, you're like beating piranhas on the head, but then taking them in, swimming with pink dolphins and gray dolphins.

8:02Amy Freeman:Anything else? I mean, I'm sure you saw capybaras and all sorts of wildlife.

8:06Dave Freeman:Oh, yeah, all sorts of stuff. Here's a cool example of how we worked with the kids. It relates to anacondas. So when we go into schools and do live programs for the kids or even virtual programs through the wilderness classroom, we have the students like lay down on the floor and build the largest anaconda ever found. So it's like six kids laying on the floor. The kids love anacondas. And so we would get all these emails when we're traveling in the Amazon, you know, find an anaconda for us, find an anaconda for us. So one day we went to check our fishing net and an anaconda had tried to eat a fish that was stuck in the net.

8:42Dave Freeman:So it was like, you know, all tangled up. And so we had to untangle it and we took a bunch of photos and everything and then we released it. And so as soon as we posted that on the Wilderness Classroom website, all these kids are like, you found an anaconda for us. Like, thank you so much. And so it makes learning a lot more fun and interesting for them.

9:10Amy Freeman:When Amy and Dave got back from the Amazon, the two once again returned to Minnesota and picked up their guiding jobs. In addition to leading canoe and kayak trips, they also became skilled mushers or dog sled guides in the winter. Their experience guiding year-round set them up well for their next wild idea. This time, Amy and Dave would attempt a human-powered trip across North America. They knew that they wouldn't be able to tackle this massive adventure all in one go, so they broke it up, traveling for months at a time. Occasionally, they would come home to Minnesota, swap out gear, and sometimes even lead a trip or two to earn some extra cash.

9:48By the time they finished in 2013, they had covered 12 ,000 miles

9:54Amy Freeman:and traveled through some of the most remote wilderness in North America.

10:02Amy Freeman:in 2010 you had this wild idea to travel 12 000 miles across north america together

10:07Dave Freeman:how many miles a day would you travel i would say our average travel was between like 10 and 30 miles a day if we're dog sledding 10 would be like deep snow we just resupplied so the sleds are super heavy. If our sleds were lighter and maybe the wind really packed the lake, the dogs could run faster, then maybe we might be able to do 30 miles. And the same if we're traveling by, say, kayak or canoe, maybe we have like a really strong headwind and we're paddling into the waves. Maybe we only go 10 miles. We have a tailwind or it's a beautiful, flat, calm day and we paddle from dawn to dusk, then maybe we do 30 miles.

10:53Amy Freeman:What did you eat every day and where did you sleep? Well, we were very used to eating oatmeal. We had a pretty simple menu. It was like rotating between two different breakfasts, right? Oatmeal or granola with a good amount of peanut butter and other stuff added in, right? And dinner was like rice and beans or spaghetti, something something simple and easy to pack. And lunch was something we wouldn't have to cook. And so that'd be a handful of trail mix and some cheese and tortillas or something like that. And as far as where we slept, I mean, it was mostly like pitching a tent every night, unless we happened to be in a community.

11:37Amy Freeman:And in that case, since we were doing these wilderness classroom assemblies, like oftentimes we'd be in communication with like the principal of a school or a teacher. And so they would host us. Sometimes that meant staying at somebody's house, but other times it was like at the school. Yeah.

11:57Dave Freeman:And that reminded me of a story when we were dog sledding. It was really cold. It was like 40, 45 below zero. And we popped out onto this giant frozen lake called Great Bear Lake. I mean, it's like the size of Lake Erie. You know, It's a huge lake, and there's only one community of about 500 people on it. And we were dog-slaying across the last five miles, and there's a winter road so people could drive their trucks on it. And a truck came by and said hello, and they asked us where we were going to stay. And we were like, well, maybe is there a place to camp on the outside of town where we could stake out our dogs?

12:36Dave Freeman:And they're like, well, we're about to leave town to drive over the ice road to a volleyball tournament. why don't you stay at our house and so we followed them through town behind their pickup truck with our sled dogs like down the the icy roads pull up in front of their house they're like stake the dogs here there's frozen fish for them in the shed help yourself to anything in the fridge we'll be back in four days and that was it they're like just stay at our house so you know we met so many amazing people along the journey but when we were dog sledding it was especially like just the most amazing people you could ever meet.

13:18Amy Freeman:Were there any other highlights, just incredible wildlife you saw or something beautiful or something really funny that happened? Yeah, well, the first thing that comes to mind for me is during the kayaking portion, as we were approaching Juneau, Alaska, we saw humpback whales a ways away, off in the distance we can see like their tails like oh there's activity over there and spouts of water and um we kind of paused in our kayaks and dave was carrying like a big camera in a pelican case um in the kayak like kind of basically like on his lap so he was getting situated like removed his spray skirt in order to be able to get the camera out and got that all situated and And before we knew it, there were two humpback whales approaching us.

14:11Amy Freeman:We were preparing to just shoot some photos with the zoom lens of these humpback whales way in the distance. But here they were, like, coming towards us. And in fact, it made us nervous at first. We were just like, whoa, these are very large animals. Like, did they see us? What are they doing? And we realized they came up to us and then paused. just, what, 25 feet away or something like that. So one of them was right on the surface, so it's kind of like the back of the whale and hearing his breathing and just, you know, like the fishy smell from what was like coming out of the blowhole, right?

14:54Amy Freeman:It was just so wild. And it was a moment for, I think, both of us where time just stood still. I bet the whole encounter lasted like 30 seconds. But it was astounding to be in the presence of a creature that large and intelligent. And, you know, like they're just coming to see what's going on. Like, what are these funny shaped things out in the water?

15:38Amy Freeman:Amy and Dave Freeman are hardcore adventures, and at the same time, they're incredibly common kind. If you met them on the street, you would never know how wild their life had been. After spending months canoeing around Lake Superior and then six months paddling down the Amazon River, the two decided to take on a 12 ,000-mile trip across North America. In the spring of 2010, Amy and Dave packed up their gear, traveled to Bellingham, Washington, and started paddling north to Alaska. Eventually, they would make their way all the way across Canada, and even paddle down the eastern U.S. to Key West, Florida.

16:16Amy Freeman:It was a grueling physical journey, and a massive emotional commitment. I mean, three years is a long time to devote to anything. But surprisingly, there was only one moment when Amy and Dave considered calling it quits. Was there any time you just wanted to quit? I had a time. I bet Dave doesn't. But there was a point in time when we, well, so when you travel that far following waterways, like you do have to go upstream at times, right? Like there's no way to do it so that everything is downstream and you're just going with the flow. and so it was when we were in northern Canada where I just wanted to throw in the towel because we had just been trudging up a river um it was a river with some rapids in it and so it's kind of like well when there aren't rapids you can kind of paddle but it's hard work because you're going against the current but uh to get through the rapids it was either a matter of portaging so like carrying everything on land or in places where it's like, okay, well, it's not too tricky here.

17:28Amy Freeman:We'll just float the canoe. So we're walking in shallow water that's icy cold. And it was just sort of miserable. But kind of worked through it in my own head about like, okay, well, if I were to quit now, what would happen? I'm not just going to like, I can't call in a helicopter or something. I mean, I suppose I could, but that would be really dumb to do for a non-emergency, right? So the only way to get out of this situation is to progress. But I think it does make us very attuned to each other and how each other's feeling. You have to be very conscientious of your travel partner and whether it's like, oh, they're having a bad day or they're physically exhausted or that sort of thing.

18:13Amy Freeman:We were always like checking in with each other. And in fact, we kind of continue to say that our relationship is the strongest when we're out traveling in wild places for that very reason. What does Dave say that helped you keep going? Or, you know, do you guys like stop and have a meal? Like, did you go into that town and like have a hot shower?

18:36Dave Freeman:Well, I think in that particular case, we, you know, it was, this This wasn't like a day or two. I mean, I think it was probably like three or four weeks to get from one town to the next. And we, I would say within 24 hours of when Amy was sort of hitting rock bottom, we reached a really cool spot where there's a beautiful rapids like carved out of limestone and like a waterfall dumping over. and there was this rock point that sort of stuck out into the river, like above this like miniature canyon with the waterfall. And I was just like, you know what, let's just take a day off. And so we spent a day there just resting and reading and just sort of watching the water.

19:24Dave Freeman:And I think, you know, that was sort of a reset. Not that it was easy after that, but I think that was what gave Amy the mental space to be like, all right, I just had a rough moment, but we're not going to give up. There's a lot of fun and adventure ahead of us.

19:51Amy Freeman:Even the most extreme adventures need to take breaks when things get tough. And Amy is not the type to give up easily. In fact, before they were finished with their trip across Canada, Amy and Dave had already started dreaming up their next wild idea. They would spend 12 straight months paddling, skiing, and camping in a remote protected wilderness in northern Minnesota called the Boundary Waters. The region covers more than a million acres of lakes, forests, and winding portage trails. No motors, no roads, just the two of them living in rhythm with the wild. So you live for a full year in the wild in the Boundary Waters.

20:31Can you tell us what did that look like?

20:33Amy Freeman:What did you eat? What was like your nine to five? Did you stay in the same place every day? Yeah, well, we really wanted to see as much as possible of the whole wilderness area. So we did have a rough plan of kind of traveling to different areas and and um so we were on the move for it generally um we carried about two weeks worth of food with us at any given point and in order to do that we had an expedition manager in ely who was coordinating resupplies so people would like paddle a canoe to meet up with us and hand us a new pack of food and we would hand them you know a pack that contained our trash and anything else we wanted to sort of like send back out of the wilderness, including like audio files for a podcast we were doing for the local radio station in Grand Marais, WTIP.