Surfing The Great Lakes with Robin Pacquing

0:03There's something really cool about four-season surf. You know, surfing when the air is crisp and the leaves are turning color. You know, there's a special feeling when it's snowing. It's really, really cool. And I have not encountered that anywhere in any of the ocean spots that I've been to.

0:27Robin Pacquing:I never thought lake surfing was something you could do year-round, let alone dedicate your life to. But Robin Peking, a surfer who lives outside of Toronto, Canada, has proven me wrong. Robin has been surfing the Great Lakes for almost 20 years now in all kinds of weather. Surfing on the lakes is pretty different from ocean surfing, and it takes a whole different level of grit. For one thing, swells are much shorter and less predictable. For another, the water in the Great Lakes can be extremely cold, and the outside temperatures hover around freezing for a big chunk of the year. That means you have to learn what conditions make for good waves and do some good old-fashioned driving around to check the waves yourself.

1:10Robin Pacquing:Still, Robin has made it her mission to become an expert at surfing these unique shorelines. I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard. I've heard plenty of surfers say it's a lake out there when they look out at the ocean and see few rideable waves. But as Robin knows, lakes are not always flat and glassy. Take Lake Ontario, for example, which is just a couple of blocks from her house. It's one of the five great lakes and its surface is more than 7 ,300 square miles, which is only slightly smaller than the entire state of New Jersey.

1:54Robin Pacquing:Robin has felt connected to this lake since she was young, but she didn't start surfing there until she was in her mid-20s.

2:05Robin Pacquing:Robin Peking, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. You are our first lake surfer I've interviewed yet. Oh wow, thank you so much Shelby for having me. This is an honor. You know, I don't really think about people surfing in your neck of the woods. So I want to go back to the beginning. How did you get into the outdoors? Like what was your relationship with nature and the outdoors growing up? And where did you grow up? I grew up born and raised in Toronto, like in the city. But there was a lot of nature around me in terms of like just our neighborhood and what my parents like to do on our, you know, on our off days.

2:42And just like a lot of immigrant families. Like we kind of made our life in the city, but the outdoors and, you know, the water, especially Lake Ontario, which wasn't too far from where I grew up, it was just so important to my life. So outdoorsy has been a thing, but also city life was very much part of my life as well. So it's, you know, this dichotomy of city and nature that kind of sort of blended together somehow.

3:05Robin Pacquing:What kind of things would you do on the lake or in the lake? So as a kid, my dad had a tiny little, like, this aluminum fishing boat with a, you know, tiny outboard motor. And in the summer months, we would, you know, launch the boat from Murray Curtis Park, which wasn't too far from where we lived. And we would just take the boat around through the harbor to the, you know, Toronto Islands. We would also take the boat up north, go fishing, you know, and it was just like water was just part of my life. So I'm curious, how did you learn to surf?

3:42So, you know, as a teenager, I always thought that surfing and board sports, and this is like in the late 80s and early 90s when I was, you know, young. I always thought that board sports like skateboarding, surfing, that kind of stuff looks so cool. Like, and as a city person, like, I didn't think I had any kind of accessibility to that kind of thing. And though we had a lot of water recreation, board sports in that kind of way was just like unattainable. It was one of these things that I admired through the rare surf magazines that I would find. And yeah, when I was, I think it was like the year 2000 or 2001, we did a family trip to Hawaii.

4:25And that's when I figured, okay, this is going to be finally my time to learn how to surf. and I mean like everybody who goes on their first like surfboard knows that it's you know you don't actually surf very well but it's you either get it or you don't or it's just you know it was a struggle so it was a huge struggle for me on my my first time on a board and I um but I still loved it I loved the feeling of it and how old were you at the time 20 21 20 I think it was 20 you're

4:55Robin Pacquing:exactly my age then I guessed it when you're talking about like late 90s it's so funny I went to the library the other day and someone had left a stack of 1990 surfer magazines for free. And I grabbed them. I was like, this is insane. They don't know what they're missing. And it was just amazing. So I also learned to surf in Hawaii. And what happened was I wrote a 12 foot long board and someone basically just pushed me. It changed my life. What about you? So yeah, I got pushed into waves and I struggled and I would pop up way too early. And I remember catching one and just feeling that initial like push of, you know, there's the push from the instructor.

5:33And then when like nature takes over with that inertia and it was like, oh, my God, this is what surfing is. Yeah. And then from there, I just was I like to call myself a bit of a wannabe surfer after that, because it's like, you know, I went to Hawaii once and now I'm a surfer girl.

5:53Robin Pacquing:After that trip, Robin couldn't stop thinking about surfing. She watched surfing movies and contests on TV and continued to read any surfing magazine she could get her hands on. A few years later, Robin decided to finally purchase her own surfboard. She couldn't find any used boards in Toronto. Luckily, Robin's brother lived in California, so when she visited him out west, she picked up a board. When she brought it home to Canada, she immediately started scouting out spots she could surf. I'm curious how someone from Ontario then learned how to surf and take that back. Yeah, essentially I had found out, now it's in my early mid-twenties, that there was actually a surfing scene in Canada.

6:41And I was like, whoa, you can surf in Canada? And there were people that surfed in BC, in Tofino. And Tofino. And that blew me away where I was like, OK, I need to go to BC and I need to do this. So in in doing that, I also found out that there was actually a very small surf culture on the Great Lakes. And that felt like, OK, this is my life's calling. And this is where I need to just put in as much research as I can to figure out how to do this, what this is all about and who are the people that do this. Like, I need to learn. I will admit to the fact that it was love with the water and riding of the wave, but it was also this defiance against those who said I couldn't.

7:26Tell me more. There was a lot of that.

7:31Robin Pacquing:And those who know me know that I can be kind of like defiant in that way, like stick my chin out and be like, no, screw you. I'm going to do it. Like I know my husband and like my mom will definitely attest to that. And so, yeah, there was also that sense of like, you don't think I can do this? I'm going to prove you wrong. You have this, you know, I felt very underestimated. You know, I had teachers in elementary school that underestimated me and basically, you know, pushed me down and said, no, I'm for who I am or who what I look like or whatever my body type was, was no, you can't be an athlete at all.

8:12And so I was told from like not necessarily my mom and my dad, but just from outside authority that I cannot and will not be that because of who I look like or what I, you know, I don't have an athletic, you know, that athletic body. You know, I had health issues as a kid. And so this was just like, you know, I was placed in this box of like, you are not athletic. But, you know, in my heart, I felt like that was kind of wrong. So in high school, aside from being outdoorsy, like my high school life was very much in like music and arts rather than, you know, athleticism. So there was, you know, a little bit of an inner defiance from this, especially like seeing how surfing was.

8:58And there was also people just like in general who said, like, you can't surf on Lake Ontario. There's no waves. There were just a lot of naysayers who thought that that was just crazy. Like, why would you get into Lake Ontario? It's dirty. It's disgusting. You must be disgusting. And there was a lot of people laughing in my face when I would say, oh, I surf the lake, laughing in my face. Or if I was at the coast and I would say I was a lake surfer, also laugh in my face like, oh, you guys don't know. That's not real surfing. And I know that a lot of lake surfers have encountered that at one time or another, But in the in the length of time that I've been doing this, I've encountered it a lot and a lot more when I was, you know, first starting off in this journey.

9:47And so every time somebody said that to me or, you know, you know, projected that kind of like negativity of of like, no, you can't do that or no, that's stupid or whatever. It just kind of fired in me more saying, no, you're wrong. I'm going to prove you wrong. And what I'm doing is what I love.

10:17Robin Pacquing:Robin Peking is a lake surfer based outside of Toronto. When you think of surfing, you may picture a sandy beach with blue-green waves and lots of sunshine. Don't get me wrong, there are sandy beaches and some sunny days on Lake Ontario. But there are also many days with ice and snow. Another big difference between lake and ocean surfing is how the waves are formed. While both are formed by wind, the ocean surface is so much bigger, meaning the waves have had more of a chance to gather energy, mass, and speed. Lakes, on the other hand, have smaller surfaces, so the waves tend to be smaller, choppier, and much less predictable.

10:57Robin Pacquing:Over the years, Robyn has had to educate herself about the conditions that create rideable waves so she can actually get out there and surf.

11:08Robin Pacquing:how do you i don't understand what is what is lake surfing like tell me about the waves there what does that look like what was your first time oh my first okay so in the the very small amount of uh information that was out there on the internet that existed in the year like 2004 for 2005, I found a message board or bulletin board, I guess, a forum, a forum called Origin Surf. And I found out that this is where all the lake surfers in the United States and Canada hang out and troll each other. Cool. And it was a lot of, you know, you know, not a lot of not a lot of women. And, you know, a lot of gatekeeping, but I was just like pushing through like, I don't care.

11:56Tell me. And of course, there were, you know, there was the trolls, but then there were other people who were completely helpful in saying, hey, you know, there's this book called Surfing the Great Lakes. And I was like, oh, what? There's actually like there's a book. So I sourced that out. And then just people were talking about how like forecasting is different. And so you have to find wind and you have to find like certain direction of wind. And then that just kind of gave me more clues to figuring out, well, when I see the lake, when it's flat, when I'm boating with my family, obviously, it's going to be a different kind of weather day when there's waves.

12:31So like, I'll never forget one day, it was like rainy and windy. So I hopped in the car and I was like, well, I'm just gonna go see what the lake was. And this was, I guess, effectively my first surf check. And yeah, that first surf check was eye opening because I got there and I just saw It was like a mushy, like two foot, like shore break wave, which was very different from what I really paid attention to previously. And I was like, oh, wow, there are waves here. Or like there's, you know, I just saw potential and I was like, okay, I just need to refine this information a little bit more. um yeah and then I got that book surfing the great lakes and that just gave me more information and with that I just built more and more of that experience with going to the shore looking at the wind and on the right day like that window of time where the wind is pushing right you will get these wonderful like ways to head high waves and it's it's a special feeling because you're doing something in a space where a lot of people don't think it's possible or even good.

13:43And I've held that beautiful feeling of that specialness and have given that feeling to others to say, hey, no, you can do this here. And that is super, super special to me.

13:54Robin Pacquing:Help me understand what Lake Ontario is like and how waves are formed on this lake and how big it is just for those of us like me who don't spend enough time looking at maps outside of California and where I'm where I'm going to surf exactly because I was one of those people probably who was like surfing in a lake and it wasn't just to be mean it was like it just sounds funny like because we don't know about it yeah and then you know people think oh it's like you know like wake surfing like behind a boat and you're like no no no no no no no that's no um and I see it And if you remove the word lake and you think about the Great Lakes, it's a huge system of water from Lake Superior all the way down to Lake Ontario.

14:45What they really are, and if you remove that word lake, they are really a series of freshwater inland seas. They're seas. So remove the word lake and you see it as a freshwater sea. There are all kinds of shipwrecks. There are all kinds of like weather patterns that, you know, can be treacherous, just like the ocean, just like a sea. And then when you see it from that point of view, then the Great Lakes are enormous, even more enormous than what you would even see on a map, right? and that's where I kind of start whenever somebody's trying to like put their mind to what lake surfing is like so for us we need wind just like anything and you know there's ground swell in the ocean there's still like you know secondary swell with wind so we are predominantly at least on Lake Ontario we need wind and we need time for that wind to push the water towards a certain area to create waves.

15:50And then there's things like, you know, the geography of the shoreline, like the bathymetry, like what's the bottom looking like? And then, you know, once you realize that there are like in Toronto, there's at least a half a dozen like surf spots in the city of Toronto alone. So there's tons of potential here because we have all kinds of like interesting shorelines along Lake Ontario. So we have a huge variation of days where it could be mushy. It could be really crap. But there are days when the wind is right and you'll find these clean waves that are anywhere between head high and higher. And they are absolutely surfable.

16:27And that's just like Southern Ontario. And then you have like in the United States, you have like Lake Michigan, which is, has a big surf scene. And Lake Superior, which also has, you know, a huge surf scene. And then you just realize that the potential for waves and shoreline is there's a lot of it.

16:47Robin Pacquing:A head high lake wave. That's amazing. Yeah, I've had days, like I've had drop-ins where like, you know, I'm in and okay, mind you, I'm not very tall. I'm like, you know, just under five feet tall. So, but there are days where I've, you know, dropped in and waves and like, you know, it's feathering way above my head. Robin has been studying the waves on Lake Ontario for nearly 20 years. She knows how to read the signs, what to watch for, and how to predict the best time and place to catch surfable waves. Still, there's always an element of surprise when she checks out a new spot. That uncertainty makes the moments when she does catch a Great Lake wave feel even more magical.

17:31Robin Pacquing:What's your best wave you've ever ridden in a lake? Ooh, yeah. So there's this spot near in Prince Edward County, which is on Lake Ontario, which is towards the eastern part of the lake. And there's a spot there. Like I had been looking at the spot on a map for like months and thinking, you know, on a west wind and then if it's blown really hard and then once it switches northwest, it should create something really awesome. Like that was just my prediction. And so I brought my friend and I was like, girl, we got to go check this out because like I just have a hunch. And it did exactly what I thought it was going to do.

18:09It was a super strong west bend and then it switched to a northwest and it created this like literal like head high for me, clean wrapping point break. And the water was like crystal clear. Like you can see right through the waves. And it's fresh water. It's fresh water. It is fresh water, crystal clear blue, see right through it. And it was, oh my goodness. Like that was, there was a find. And it was just me and my friend Nadia surfing this one spot. And like, I mean, I've had a lot of really great waves, but that particular session was like unreal. And from what I've learned of some of the locals that are in that area, there's a lot of places, these nooks and crannies in that area that are like that.

18:54But again, you just have to be patient and you have to be, you really have to find those days by like, you know, trial and error, figuring out what wind works. And that's kind of like the big adventure of lake surfing. It's just that half the time, if you're going to go for like a little surf safari, you may not know what it's going to look like. You can get all the information from the buoys and wind direction and all that. But once you get there, that's one of the big surprises. And you're like, oh, wow, it's better than I thought or worse than I thought. But when it is better than what you think, it is such a score.

19:33Robin Pacquing:I love that. Oh, wow. It sounds amazing. And it just sounds so different than one. I just feel like a lazy surfer. I walk out and I'm like, are there waves or they're not? Are they surfable or are they not? And then I grab my board and I go. Yeah. It sounds like you have to be pretty educated on it in terms of wind direction, bottom direction of like which way this face is. But also with lakes, like you surf year round and it is freezing where you are and it snows and the lake gets icy. Yes. How does that work? um so I mean I have a an enormous collection of wetsuits with boots and you know ponchos and hot water bottles that kind of thing so you need the gear like you have to have and you have to be invested in the gear and then yeah it is cold and I mean the only time that I won't surf on the on you know on the lake is if it's so iced up and so jammed up that it's just literally unsafe to go out in the water because sometimes the the the um the ice shelf in the winter time can form literally in an hour because it's so it's so dynamic and that's um another sort of dangerous aspect of it so when it's like that i don't typically surf on those spots i might find somewhere else or just be like okay well you know it's winter it's jammed up too bad so sad just weight.

21:02But on days when it is cold and there's still like ice chunks floating, but you can still, you know, get into the water. It's, you just have to deal with the cold. And maybe I'm not surfing for three, four hours, but I'm still surfing for an hour and a half at least.

21:15Robin Pacquing:Can you walk me through what it's like suiting up, getting ready and going to paddle out on a great lakes on a winter day? So luckily for me, I live five minutes away from a surf spot and the night before I'll be checking the forecast. And I'd already known like the night before if like there might be something the next day. So I'll wake up in the morning, you know, make my coffee, and then I'll go outside to the front lawn and take a look at the lake. Do I see white caps? What do I see? You know, correlate that information with what the weather network or the wind forecast is saying. And then more often than not, I'll just get in my car and go drive to the surf spot first.

21:53Take a look, look at the forecast again, what's going to be looking like in the next two, three hours. Do I go surf right now? You know, do I wait for the wind? Okay, get back in the car, go home, pack my kit, which has my, you know, rinse water, my leash, shea butter, like Vaseline, all of that stuff.

22:12Robin Pacquing:Wait, why? Oh, to prevent windburn. Ah, like just moisturize your face. Shea butter and Vaseline are not in my surf kit. Yeah, in my surf kit to prevent windburn. And it also prevents icicles. And I know you've probably seen these like selfies of, you know, these guys with ice beards and all that stuff. And there is one way to prevent that and that shea butter or Vaseline because it hurts to have ice. So, you know, I'll suit up at home, put on the thick suit, put on the boots. I don't put on the gloves yet, make a hot thing of tea. And then, you know, I tell husband, hey, I'm going out to cliffs and, you know, I'll be in the water, I'll text you when I'm done.

22:52So float plan always, just so he knows that I'm safe, where I'm going to be and all that stuff. Always. Get in the car, board is on the car, you know, kit is there, got my tea. Once I get there, put on my gloves. I will wax my paddle and my gloves just so I can get the grip. And then out I go. You know, and when I am surfing on those days, there's lots of times where I'd be sitting on the water, just, you know, looking at the perspective around you and realize how beautiful that perspective is, how the trees look like from the water, how the water is moving the way it does. You look over and you're on the shoulder and you see a wave coming or you see like, you know, a fellow surfer catch a wave and you just enjoy these moments.

23:41And lately, actually, I've been trying to fall in love with these moments, these small little moments that just ground me.

23:47Robin Pacquing:What's the gnarliest conditions you've ever surfed in? There's this one day where it just started snowing and then it became super white out conditions. So I'm, you know, I'm out there and I can barely see like 10 feet in front of me because it was just... So you don't even know where the shore is? No. Yeah. I mean, I can see where the shore is. Like I know, like I can just tell how the water is going, but it was just like for, you know, for about half an hour, it was white out conditions. And you're being pelted in the face by, you know, ice pellets and, you know, snow. And when the weather is like that, it's not snowing nicely.