Ultra Running and Setting FKTs with Anton Krupicka

0:01To me, running requires this level of focus and intention that then turns on all those happy brain chemicals and those moments of clarity and those moments of flow. So I think connecting to nature, the outdoors, getting outside at all in any form is a positive thing. But running is like an elevated version of it.

0:27Anton Kupitschka is one of the most iconic long-distance trail runners in the U.S. During the peak of his career, he was known for his minimalist approach to the sport. He often raced shirtless, with long hair and a bushy beard, a look that made him instantly recognizable on the trail. Anton has been chasing big mountains, long miles, and complicated routes for nearly 30 years. Over the course of his career, he's won the legendary Leadville 100 race twice, along with many other wins and podiums at races around the world. Outside of the competition circuit, Anton has also racked up 28 fastest known time records, or FKTs.

1:06I'm Shelby Stanger, and this is Wild Ideas Worth Living, an REI Co-op Studios production presented by Capital One and the REI Co-op MasterCard.

1:21Anton Kupicka, welcome to Wild Ideas Worth Living. We're so excited to talk to you. Cool. Yeah, thanks for inviting me on, Shelby. So you're in Boulder, Colorado. Yep. That's a great place to be a trail runner. It is. I mean, I suppose that's why I live here. I moved here 17 years ago for grad school and never left. Mostly, I mean, it is an excellent spot for trail running. There's a very large and, I don't know, passionate community of trail runners in Boulder. But there's lots of good trail running in the Mountain West. But I would say what's kept me in Boulder is probably the access to the rock climbing.

2:03I mean, it's just it's one of the few spots that has so many different types of rock within, you know, anything from five minutes to an hour drive from town. So, yeah, it's good. I'm curious. So you're mostly a runner. Like, that's what people know of you for. Were you always a runner ever since you were a kid? Yeah, I've been a runner since 1995 when I was 11 years old. I started running daily February of 95. and by April of 95, I was keeping a daily training log, you know, training journal. Who got you into it though? The presidential physical fitness test in just PE class. Yeah. You have to run a mile.

2:43You used to have to do a mile time trial twice a year or something like that. And I was just the best in my class. So that was positive reinforcement. And I just remember in that year, this would have in my fifth or sixth grade year. I remember thinking, oh, the mile run is coming up. So in the month leading up to it, I'm going to practice by running a mile every day. And that's how I started. That's how I became a runner. And then it just never stopped. Yeah. Do you know how fast your mile was? Yeah. In the sixth grade, at least. I remember I was super happy because I broke six minutes. I ran like 5.55.

3:21Yeah. I don't remember what it was in fifth grade, but yeah. okay that's pretty fast um i read that then you just kind of busted out a marathon a whole year later yeah so in 96 i ran my first marathon a few weeks before my 13th birthday i was 12 um and i just i don't know at that point in time i was already the mayor i already already saw the marathon as being like the ultimate this is what a real runner does they run a marathon you know So it seems kind of crazy for a 12-year-old now looking back on it. But yeah.

4:02Anton grew up in rural Nebraska where he ran for his local cross-country team. While his race times were okay, he wasn't a top-ranked athlete. He certainly never imagined he'd built an entire career around running. But after high school, Anton went to a Division III college in Colorado where he started to really develop as a runner. What is it about distance running that lured you in, especially on trails? Like, could you just go out and run and clear your thoughts? Like, there's got to be some motivating factor that just makes you love running long. What is that? I mean, whenever you have an aptitude for something and you're in middle school, I think you like you lean into that because it's just positive reinforcement.

4:46There's like validation from your peers and your community, you know, when you win a race. So then when I was in college, our cross country team, we would do a long run every Monday and we'd always do it on trails in the mountains, which I think is like actually fairly unique for like a cross country program, like a college program. Our coach would have us do long runs on mountain trails, like with, you know, two, 3 ,000 foot climbs on single track, you know, two up to maybe two and a half hours, which is pretty long when you're just racing 8K, you know, on a golf course generally. But on those longer runs, you know, I just found relative to my peers, I was maybe the strongest on the team on those longer runs.

5:33but I had a hard time making varsity, you know, the top seven to actually score in meets and stuff. So the shorter distances, the speed wasn't so much my skill set, but long runs in the mountains at high altitude with a lot of vertical game, it was just obvious early on that that's what I was good at. So, yeah. When did you make an actual career out of being a runner? Yeah, 2006. How old or you? I would have been 23. Yeah. I, uh, I graduated from college and was working at the college and I had a, I had a college cross country coach, assistant coach who had done the Leadville 100. And so I kind of always looked up to him like during college and it was like, oh, that's something I want to do.

6:22Like, I don't know. Obviously I ran a marathon when I was 12. I always gravitated towards the longer distances. So I knew that when I graduated, uh, I wanted to try an ultra marathon um i ended up doing the leadville 100 in 2006 and uh i won it and that kind of like set me on the path to becoming a professional runner um i mean it took four or five years before it was i was making like a living off of it but and this is a long the sport was in a much different place 20 years ago you know 2006 the very first time you ran in Leadville, you won? Yeah. Yeah. You say that very nonchalantly. Well, I mean, I, you know, like my life is my life.

7:07So it feels like, it's just like, and to me, it's like a very familiar story, I guess. But yeah, it was, I don't know, I guess a little more background. I was, while I wasn't a fast runner, I was, I would say a very passionate and dedicated runner. So before that race, I was running 200 miles a week, which is not, I wouldn't recommend that. Like that's not effective training. That's like overtraining, you know? I mean, I run like 20 miles a week. That's amazing. Yeah. So it was, all I'm saying, I guess, is that it was natural for me to do ultra marathons. Were you surprised when you won Leadville in 2006?

7:47no i like i'd won the leadville marathon in june of that year and uh the esters park marathon that summer as well so i started having like some success and i mean i was 22 23 years old like i just had some arrogance about it i would say and also ignorance um but i was just like oh like I set this course record at this marathon and, and then, you know, one is like, I should be able to win this race, you know? And I was running 200 miles a week. I was, I ran 50 miles twice in training before the race and it went well. And like three weeks before Leadville, I ran the first half. It's an out and back course.

8:31You run 50 miles out and 50 miles back. So I ran the first 50 miles of the course and I did it under course record pace. And so I was like, yeah, I should be able to win this race. That's amazing. But of course, it's also like it's 100 miles. It's completely unknown for me at that point in time. So there was also like the small matter of actually finishing the race too, you know, because it's a really long ways to run. So I won the race in August 2006 and shortly after that now a good friend of mine, Buzz Burrell, he was the manager for the La Sportiva mountain running team at the time. And I had bought a pair as my first ever trail shoes, a pair of La Sportiva shoes for the race and wore them in the race, won the race with them.

9:20And so Buzz emailed me and was like, congrats on Leadville. Like, saw you're wearing some Sportivas. Like, you want a couple pair for free? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Of course. You know, I mean, I was, when you're that age, like free anything thing sounds amazing, you know? And so that was my entree to like the outdoor industry, I guess.

9:45The following year, Anton went on to win four more long distance races, including his second attempt at the infamous Leadville 100. After that race, he was approached by New Balance about sponsorship, which allowed him to pursue running professionally. For the next four years, Anton made the podium in every single race he ran, cementing his status as a top-tier ultra runner. You won the Leadville 100 twice, the Miwok 100K, the Rocky Raccoon 100-miler, the Collegiate Peaks 50-miler, the White River 50-miler twice, the High Mountain 50K, the Estes Park Marathon, like so many. Which was the most challenging, I guess, and why?

10:27And which one was the most memorable?

10:32um probably the most memorable ones have been the ones that i've like dropped out of the failures yeah yeah just because they're really hard and they kind of leave an imprint the wins sort of i mean they're i mean one that people are going to know is uh in 2010 i ran the western states 100 but i finished second i didn't win it um i led 90 miles of it until you know very late in the race but uh a buddy of mine then like you know passed me and won the race and that's memorable because a movie was made about it uh the day itself i felt like i had a good run uh it's a very historic and uh there's yeah there's a lot of lore around the western states 100 in North American ultra running.

11:27And so that was a memorable day. But I guess what was memorable or notable about that is, so Western States was founded in, I want to say, 1974. And pretty much all throughout the history of that race, people have been really competing at it. Certainly by the 80s, people were really competing at it. But in 2010, it's kind of recognized as like maybe a bit of a watershed moment in the sport where we went from like going from just surviving the race to like really competing and like racing a hundred miles. And, uh, yeah, I don't know. That makes it memorable. And I don't know. I really like studying and making myself knowledgeable about like the history and traditions and, uh, what's come before me and in all the sports I do and Western States is kind of like, yeah the biggest source of that kind of lore in the sport of ultra running um you know it started out as a horse race uh and this one guy gordy ainsley decided he wanted to just try and do it on foot because his horse came up injured that year and and he did and he did in less than 24 hours and basically 100 mile racing in the mountains was conceived you know um and uh it's I don't know, it's really satisfying to me to be able to connect to a long lineage of an event or a sport.

12:53And Western States is the, it's a proving ground, but it's also a connection to a deep history. Why are you so interested in learning about the history of these races? For me, the reason it's important is because it connects me to like a larger, like community and tradition, you know? And so it just gives more weight and meaning to the whole activity, in my view. It's the same for climbing or cycling. I feel I'm super interested in the history of those sports, too. And anything that I've been able to achieve in this sport is building on people who've come before me anyways. It's not like I just did it in a vacuum.

13:37So I don't know. I think it's just important to educate yourself and have that kind of context. But then it's like, it's, I don't know, it just makes it all more nutritious if you know, like, what came before.

14:06Anton Krupicka is a legendary ultra runner who has been competing around the world for the last several decades. His approach to trail running is unique. He often challenges familiar ideas about discomfort, ego, and what our bodies are capable of.

14:27Tell me what you love about ultra running. You know, I've never really, I raced cross country track D3. I'm kind of a 5k runner. And then I break after that. take me through what you love about long distance races on trails. Uh, I don't, I don't do the running like for the racing it's, but, uh, but the, the act of let's call it ultra running, I guess for me, it's the most pure elemental way to immerse yourself in a landscape and, uh, and kind of be both humbled by your surroundings and empowered by them. Uh, it's very unfettered, you know, you need a pair of shoes, a pair of shorts and that's it.

15:13Um, I have a lot of other passions in the mountains. You know, we were talking about climbing earlier, uh, skiing, cycling, but all those things, they just, there's all this gear involved. It's just like a lot of BS and running is super simple and very, very straightforward. there's nothing between you and your surroundings and the elements. And then with running all day in the mountains, usually there's some kind of flow state where you feel very integrated with your surroundings. But then also there's, if you're out for an all day run, there's going to be some really hard points too. And, and doing hard things is gratifying.

15:55It's satisfying. I don't know. So it's just a combination of all that. The caveat to all this is running is super abusive. It's hard on the body. Anyone who's been a runner for any amount of time has been injured. There's a lot of discomfort in running long distances. There's something about discomfort, though, that you enjoy. I'm curious about your relationship to discomfort. I mean, discomfort, it's a very privileged thing to take on elective discomfort. You know, there's a lot of people in the world who are like truly suffering, truly have hardship in their lives that they can't escape. And I'm fortunate enough that I've had a life where I've had to contrive the discomfort in my life for the most part.

16:41You know, sure, I've had like plenty of challenges in my life, but a lot of the things I do, I'm contriving discomfort in order to have the satisfaction of like meeting the challenge, overcoming it, and then like getting to sit on the couch afterwards. You know, it's rewarding to like endure and work through it. And that gives some kind of like satisfaction and maybe not meaning, but definitely just like self-validation, I suppose. I really like the phrase elective discomfort. I haven't heard that before. But how has this affected the rest of your life, like running and these challenges you do?

17:20Because you're not the average guy. Like you're doing it at a really high level and you do FKTs. I mean, I'm curious how this path has affected the rest of your life. I don't know. I don't really buy into the thing of like, say I finish a hundred mile race that proves to myself that I'm strong and then I can like take that strength and apply it to other areas of my life. I've never really felt that way. That kind of like projection of one kind of ability to deal with hardship. I don't think that makes me any better at dealing with other forms of hardship necessarily. I know that that's a very popular thing for people to say, but I've never really felt that in my own life.

17:59That's so interesting. So it hasn't given you courage to like pursue different parts of your career or your relationship or anything else? Maybe it does. The way that it does is that I've always used running as this source of like self-confidence because it's something that I feel competent at and like, and now at this point in my life, like have a lot of experience with it. I have a lot of knowledge about it, I guess. Um, so it's just, you know, it just like integrates my identity of you're, you're an adult who knows how to like handle himself in the world. And you can, I can get into sticky situations and generally I've been able to get myself out of them or I can like confront something difficult.

18:43And, uh, you know, if I just like him stubborn and try hard, like I'll get through it, you know, and, uh, that gives me the confidence then I guess, to just like walk through the world feeling like a valid human, I suppose. But that's, that's the extent of it, I suppose.

19:05As magical and exciting as long ultra races sound, they can also be brutal. Every event is a delicate balance. You have to have the right fuel and hydration and be able to run for so many hours and miles. After running for that long, the human body starts to shut down. Some runners even experience intense hallucinations from pushing themselves so hard. About a decade into his ultra career, Anton had dealt with so many different injuries that he had to take a break. He expanded his interest from trail running to climbing, cycling, and ski touring, and even competed in these sports. Eventually, Anton made a comeback to ultra running in 2021.

19:49He shifted his focus from races to FKTs, and most recently, he set a record on a route called the LA Freeway.

20:01I want to switch gears to FKTs because that's something that you've also pursued. And you have some really interesting ones. You have one that involves an LA freeway. Can you tell me about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's sort of like a joke name for a route in the mountains. Yeah, I forgot that you're in Southern California, right? I was like, what does this mean? Yeah, so it means, I can explain. So here on the Front Range in Colorado, Longs Peak is our local 14er, 14 ,000-foot peak in Rocky Mountain National Park. And then just south of Rocky Mountain National Park is the Indian Peaks Wilderness.

20:40And the highest point in that is Arapahoe Peak. So the L.A. Freeway is traversing on the Continental Divide, like on a 12 ,000-foot ridge for about 30 miles, from Longs Peak to Arapahoe Peak. hence the LA freeway. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I suppose that's my most recent FKT. That was a year ago. I did that. And I would say that it's probably my most proud, uh, last year I was in the best shape of my life and that's a route that I've been wanting to do for over a decade. And I, uh, I ran a lot faster on it than I expected to. And I spent the whole summer preparing for it and it went really well.

21:24And yeah, so it was a very satisfying season. How old are you? I'm 42. So at 41, you're in the best shape of your life. Yeah, it was unexpected for me too. Because I've went through like, not a decade, but like, I would say five to seven years where I was like, yeah, it's over. Like I, my best days are for sure behind me, you know? What do you think made you in the best shape of your life? Like, what were you doing? What were you eating? How was your training? I was just, I was able to be consistent. Um, I've had this ongoing Achilles tendon injury for the last eight years and last summer for no good reason.

22:02I don't know. It just was kind of working better. And so I was just able to be very consistent, um, with getting time at altitude, running a lot of vertical, um, still doing a lot of cross training with cycling and climbing. But at the age of 41, a couple of things. I had 30 years of running in the bank. You know, they just have a lifetime base. Like that doesn't go away. That's something that accumulates over the decades. And two, finally, at least like a little bit of maturity and wisdom with regard to listening to my body. And, you know, if something was feeling a little bit off or a little bit on edge, like having the wisdom and the humility to back off.

22:51I still make that mistake all the time of pushing too far, but I've gotten better at it in the last 30 years. And also the kind of running I do, it lends itself to both experience, but also it's not so much power-based. It's more like aerobic endurance-based and strength-based. And that's something that you can maintain into your 40s, I think.

23:20While Anton is in a season of his athletic life where things have really clicked, there are still setbacks, doubts, and the constant negotiation that comes with decades of endurance running. It points back to an idea he returns to again and again. His relationship with discomfort.

23:41You've described trail running as learning to exist inside discomfort. And I'm just curious, what has that taught you about yourself? Oh, man. I guess what I've learned about myself is that it's, man, there's just always room for improvement. And there's always room to like, I've just been humbled like so many times by my ineffectuality and like moments of difficulty and stress, you know? Do you have any specific moments you'd be open to sharing, like how that looks? Yeah. So in 2013, I ran the Ultra Trail de Mont Blanc, UTMB. And I was doing well. I came into the race carrying an injury though which is never good because 100 miles is going to exploit an injury but I was in the lead for the first 80 miles but I got to the 80 mile aid station and ended up dropping out there because of injury but I came back the next year and I got to that same 80 mile aid station and I hadn't been able to eat for the previous 10 hours because I was basically racing above my fitness level and when you do that you can't digest food anymore um so you're just throwing up not getting any calories then uh so i got to the 80 mile aid station the same one i dropped out at the year before and uh and i was just like just disappointed i was just like ah here we are again treant switzerland you know in this aid station it's all just gonna go to crap again you know and but i had this like Like I spent four and a half hours in that aid station.

25:21And, you know, I think I was in like fourth or fifth place when I came in or something and 50th place when I left. But I had this realization like in the middle of like my nausea and like unable to eat and everything. I'm like, oh, wait, like you don't have to drop out. Like this isn't some like four written script that you drop out here. Like you still have the power to like choose to keep going, you know. and uh i don't know that was that was like a big it sounds so simple and silly like spoken as an english sentence but like i don't know it was uh it was this huge like kind of like realization at the time it's like no you can still choose to like write a different story today you know and so i did i ended up like getting up put my shoes back on and i ran some but mostly walked the last 25 miles to the finish.

26:14And I finished UTMB, which was sweet because I would have sucked to have DNF'd at it two years in a row. In those moments when you're super uncomfortable, what's your self-talk like? I mean, yeah, there's no strategy for me. It's vacillating between positive self-talk because that truly does work and just sort of like self-loathing, like just like a lot of swearing to myself you know about the situation um but then also like just like positive reinforcement like i'm the you know in in 100 mile races here in north america you're allowed to have a pacer most of the time um and a lot of people have different uh things that motivate them i guess like i have a buddy who he like responds to sort of like negative of like, you know, like, you know, pick it up, like, you know, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing.