Ask Paula: Am I Saving Enough For Retirement?

28:04And based on everything that she told us, Paul, I don't think it's going to take that long. It certainly doesn't seem to me that if she built today that it would take that long to get there. But the fact that she's so conflicted, there's another strategy that I truly like. When somebody's not sure which way to go, they don't know what to do, take a coin out and flip it. and then before you look at it, ask yourselves which one you were hoping it was when you were in the air. I do a slightly modified version of that. I flip a coin and then I pay attention to how I feel about the result. Yeah. When I was a financial planner, I would flip the coin and I would ask them which one they were kind of hoping for.

28:53And then I put the coin in my pocket. They're like, wait, I want to see what it was. I'm like, it doesn't matter what it was. Right. I tell myself like, okay, I have to do however the coin toss lands. Like I tell myself that I convinced myself of that. Like if it lands on heads, I got to do X. Lands on tails, got to do Y. Cannot deviate, must do what coin says. I tell myself that I flip the coin, I get the result. And immediately there will be a bodily feeling like either enthusiasm or relief or disappointment. There will be a visceral feeling. And that's how I know. Well, yeah, we respond to deadlines.

29:33I asked Don Hahn, who was the producer behind Beauty and the Beast and a lot of Disney movies. I said, you're working with these great artists. He used to be an artist himself. He was a Disney Imagineer. Now he's the guy holding on to the purse strings. I said, does it feel weird being an artist and not being able to just give these artists everything they want. You got to tell them no. And he said, an artist without a deadline gets nothing done. I think you can take the word artist out of that. I think deadlines are great for decision-making. And all that that trick is with the coin, whether you do it the way you did it, the way I do it, is it just creates a deadline.

30:14The deadline is now. And we're going to live with whatever the decision is. and then you know what you want to do. Right. So, Samantha, there's your answer. Flip a coin. We could have just said that, Paula. It's such a shorter episode. Flip a coin, Samantha. Next caller. That would be a great April Fool's Day episode. Can you imagine? We'll just answer every call like that. We'll air like 27 calls in the span of a single episode. All right. Well, thank you, Samantha. And please call us back with an update and let us know what you decide.

30:58We'll return to the show in just a moment. Kevin Harlan here. Tomorrow, the NBA on Prime Crew is back as the Emirates NBA knockout rounds continue. The action heads to Las Vegas tomorrow for a thrilling semifinals doubleheader. Four teams remain, but only two will move on. The last two teams standing will then go toe-to-toe Tuesday night, December 16th, in the championship game for a shot at the cup, bragging rights, and a place in NBA history. And Prime is your exclusive home for all the action. So don't miss the final chase for the Emirates NBA Cup coming to you live from Las Vegas, starting with the semifinals doubleheader tomorrow at 5.30 p.m.

31:40Eastern. And Prime's also got your front row seat for the championship game Tuesday, December 16th at 8.30 Eastern. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a free 30-day trial to get started today. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details. And don't miss the thrilling conclusion of the Emirates NBA Cup tomorrow, only on Prime. When you're hiring, it's crucial to find the right people with the right skills. So for example, we recently hired a customer support and operations assistant. We needed someone who not only had a customer service background, but also because we're a small business, could be flexible and nimble and sort of step into various assignments as needed.

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33:38Our next question comes from an anonymous caller. You, Paula, are getting close to the finish line. For people that are new to Afford Anything, you don't know that Paula and I, whenever we get an anonymous caller, we give them a name. We assign them a name. We don't like talking to anonymous people. We want to know who we're talking to. Right. Like Barbara, quote unquote, Barbara is technically an anonymous caller, but we nicknamed her Barbara after Barbara Walters. And so this year with Paula's pursuit, we are diving into the world of journalism and naming people after professional journalists.

34:19So which journalist are we going to honor through this pick? Well, as listeners who afford anything know, not only am I devoting this year to doing this deep dive in journalism, but also I am Nepali. I was born in Kathmandu, Nepal. And so I want to honor a Nepali journalist named Uma Singh, who was murdered at the age of 27 by as many as 15 people who attacked her with knives. She died of multiple stab wounds in Nepal, and it is suspected that the work that she was doing as a reporter, the light that she was shining on issues of importance, motivated her killing. So as a token of respect for her and for all the journalists who risk their lives, particularly in countries that do not have strong rule of law or that have high levels of corruption, in honor of all of them, this next caller will be named Uma.

35:34Hi, Paula. I'm calling in about a retirement question. I'm a federal employee and my husband splits his work time between a part-time federal government job and a part-time job running his own LLC doing project management type work. My salary is$161 ,000 and my husband makes approximately$85 ,000 a year with the opportunity to increase if he takes on more clients for his LLC. I am 33 and he's 39. We're both maxing out our TSP traditional retirement accounts as of this year, which means we've started putting in$22 ,500 per account for the year with a 5 % match from the federal government. Currently, I have just over$100 ,000 saved up in my retirement account, and he has about$70 ,000.

36:21We have two children, both under five years old. Because I have a decent amount of student loans and am eligible for the public service loan forgiveness program, we file separately, which makes it difficult for us to contribute to a Roth. This should change in about two and a half years when hopefully my loans are forgiven. We do plan on contributing to a SEP IRA, but it's unclear as of this year exactly how much we'll be contributing. I have two key questions. First, when considering our retirement goals, how should we take into account our pensions? Are they reliable enough to count on as part of our overall plan for retirement?

36:59Second, how do we figure out how much we need to save for retirement in order to maintain a lifestyle that allows us to travel frequently and live comfortably. Think a light version of fat fire. Third, how do we determine if we are on track to save enough for retirement? Assuming a 7 % rate of return, no salary increases, and a continued contribution of$22 ,500 per year for each of us, I should have$2.5 million by the time I turn 59. My husband should have about 1 million by the time he turns 59. I'm not sure yet if we will have a mortgage at that time. Our current mortgage is about$2 ,500 a month, and we may not be done with the 30-year term quite when we turn 59.

37:43We're trying to decide if we need to increase the number of years we work or if it would be feasible to retire slightly early for both of us if we save enough in a separate brokerage account. However, we're having difficulty figuring out how the pensions play into our considerations, as well as how we need to save and exactly how much we need to save in order to be successful. Thank you. Uma, thank you for your question. A few things right off the bat. Number one, I love that you are taking such great action towards retirement savings. And I wouldn't worry at all about the fact that you can't contribute to a Roth account right now.

38:27I know if you've listened to this show, you know how much I love Roth accounts, but the benefits that you're getting as a substitute are so much better that having to wait for another two and a half years, three years before you can contribute to a Roth IRA is small details. It's a small price to pay. To your question, your second question of how much will you need, you know, as you said, you're 33, your husband is 39. This is the inherent challenge of all retirement planning. Necessarily, when you're trying to make predictions about what a given lifestyle will cost decades in the future. It's anybody's best guess.

39:11Even, Joe, as you're a former financial planner, as you can attest, even financial planners, even AI that does financial planning, like even our best humans and our best tech cannot predict how prices will rise for different commodities, for different services in different geographic regions and cannot predict how markets will perform. And this is a time in particular of so much rapid change that imagining life 20 years from now is all but impossible. But what we can do is calculate for a range of options based on historic information. It's an imperfect science, but it's the best we have. And so, Uma, what I want you to do is test drive the type of lifestyle that you're talking about.

40:10You described it as just a little less than fat fire, a moderate version of fat fire. Can you test drive that for a month or even for two weeks? Can you test drive that lifestyle as a vacation and get a sense of what your day to day is like? Get a sense of what the spending is like. Build a budget for what you think in today's dollars, what you think you would be spending if you were to live like that today. And once you know that, once you have your budget in today's dollars, then it's a simple math equation of assuming X percent inflation, what is that going to be when I retire? And assuming Y percent market performance, how much will I need in order to build out a portfolio that is at a minimum 25x my annual spending for that time?

41:06I actually like a lot of the retirement calculators that are out there for this, Paula, especially because to Uma's point, the pension is going to become more and more important the longer that she and her husband work for the federal government. You do want to calculate the pension. You're going to have to calculate a number of years, and you can get some easy pension estimates from the government website. It's super easy to get. When I was a planner, we would get these all the time. What do we think that the pension's going to look like later on? Those are going to be forward estimates. And if you leave before the number of years, your pension will be different.

41:47So it may actually make sense to work with a calculator, base it on your leaving soon, the amount that the pension factors in. If you left today, how much would that give you and your husband every month? And then a few years from now, do it again, and that'll be a much bigger number. Or if you're really sure you're going to be there for the full duration, well, then you can use a much, much bigger number for that pension calculation. I like what Paula, you're saying about starting off with the lifestyle, see how much then that the pension will cover of that pension and social security. And then when you are through, there's probably going to be in some years, a deficit where that your portfolio is going to have to make up.

42:33And that will tell you how much money you need to have in those accounts. So you start with the end product. This is the lifestyle that I want. This is what the pension is going to cover. Here's the amount the pension won't cover. What's the net present value of that number. So I take that number and I run it back to today. That gives you the amount of money you need to save. And Joe, that also answers the first element of her question, which is absolutely count the pension. Yeah. If it were a pension through a bank right now. Oh, oh, I'm telling daddy diamond on you. Is it too soon? too soon to be busted on banks.

43:18If it were, if it were from a shaky industry, you know, like banking, that's not a cornerstone of our, Oh, Oh, I was going to say twist the knife, but then I just remembered we've named her Uma. So I can't say that. Oh, well that might be, that might make it even worse. Okay. We're too soon now on many fronts. However, we've gone off the rails, but the big point there, Paula, is because it's a federal government pension. Absolutely, you count it. 100%. Because the only way in which you wouldn't receive that money is if the government goes bankrupt and defaults on its pensions. And if the federal government goes bankrupt, we all have way bigger problems.

44:03Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. That is the collapse of society as we know it. There's a website I pointed people to here several times. It's our friend, Chris Mamula. His website, Can I Retire Yet, has a wonderful page full of calculators, some that you pay for, some that you don't. A calculator that I really like and that we recommend on the Stacking Benjamin Show is the new retirement calculator. That one's going to be a little more expensive. And of course, Paula, if she wants to make sure those numbers are right, this might be worth hiring a financial planner for a couple hours. You know, find a fee-based hourly financial planner, do this work for her, with her, whatever it might be, and maybe look at the big picture that way.

44:46100%, Joe. And Uma, you're, in terms of retirement planning, you're in a stronger spot than most because, have you heard of the concept of a three-legged stool? So the three-legged stool is Social Security, pension, and then private savings, such as your investments. Oftentimes, people don't have pensions. The fact that you and your husband have access to a pension and the fact that it comes from the most stable possible entity, and that's what Joe was driving at earlier, it's not a pension that comes from Blockbuster Video or Bed Bath & Beyond. Something that conceivably could collapse. But not a bank.

45:31Ouch. Joe, did you hear the first 18 minutes of my most recent episode? No. No, seriously. Go listen to the first 18 minutes of the episode that aired right before this one. You'll see why I'm wincing. That goes for all y 'all. Go listen to that intro. It's the intro to the Encore episode with the Michael Kitsis. Just listen to the first 18 minutes. The First Republic bank story is one that I have been tracking very closely. And the turmoil in the banking sector. Man, all I can say is that lack of public confidence becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Especially in banking. Oof, yeah. Especially.

46:16Anyway, listen to the first 18 minutes of the episode that aired right before this and you'll get it. So, Uma, I hope that helped. To summarize, include the pension and run a handful of scenarios with different assumptions about return and about lifestyle expenses. But I think for you, the first thing that I want you to do, the biggest thing to figure out is to try to hone in on the cost of that lifestyle in today's dollars. Try to hone that in to the most clear extent possible. Because once you can tighten the range of what that is in today's dollars, then that'll make every calculation substantially more clear.

46:59So thank you, Uma, for asking that question. Our final question today comes from Trace. Hi there. My name is Trace. I am 27 and I live in California. California. I am looking for advice on where to store some funds for my mini retirement. I'm planning to take a mini retirement on the next one to two years, most likely starting in February of 2024. And I have saved$8 ,000 of the$25 ,000 that I plan to save for that. This is going to be outside of my emergency fund and my regular investments for ONK, all that separate fund. I currently have those assets in the Ally high yield savings account, but knowing that I'm going going to start drawing from it at the earliest summer of 2024, where do you recommend storing these funds for a short period of time totaling$25 ,000 and still allowing them to work their hardest?

47:54I look forward to your response. Thank you so much. Trace, thank you so much for your question. Given that you need to tap this money in 2024, you're going to want to keep it in cash. Where you've got it now, Ally Bank is, as of the time that we're recording this, paying around 4 % for a money market account, 3.75 % APY on an online savings account. That's a fantastic rate. I'd leave it there. For the sake of other people who are listening, Apple just opened a savings account with Goldman Sachs. They're paying 4.15 % APY on savings as of the time that we're recording this, which is Friday, May 5th, 2023.

48:37Knowing that she doesn't need this for one year, if she's able to find a one-year CD that pays higher. I don't know, Paula, maybe she does that, but I'm with you. I think this is the best place to have it because if she ends up needing it later, then she can get at it. She puts in a CD. I'm looking at depositaccounts.com right now, 5.1.9 % APY. It says it's top 1 % of CDs, one-year CDs, by the way. Currently, national average on CDs as of today, 3.17%. So not a lot to see here. Savings accounts, top 1%, 4.18%. National average, by the way, 0.38%. So she already has it at Ally. If she makes sure that she has it in their money market account, I think she's going to be great.

49:26And the cool thing about Ally is since Ally has been around, I was going to say since the time I've had a podcast, Paula, but seriously, since the time Ally is based in Detroit, I'm from Detroit. I've followed Ally for a long time. Since they've been around, Ally tries to make sure that their interest rate is among the leaders all the time. They won't always be the top, but as the top ones move, they will move with it. They'll move up, they'll move down with it. And I've heard people complain about Ally Bank when interest rates went down a couple of years ago. Everybody else's interest rates were going, It wasn't Ally's problem.

49:58It was the whole industry was paying less. So I like finding a bank like this. And this is not an Ally commercial, but I like finding a bank that has a reputation for just keeping up with it. So it's one last thing I have to worry about. I don't want to worry about 50 different things and whether I'm in a money market that's paying today versus tomorrow. I've got so much bigger decisions to make than this. Joe I'm laughing just because for someone who seems So eager to rag on regional banks Now I'm like Mr. Ally boy Right Hey oh yeah Bank that has like no brick and mortar branches A regional bank based in Utah So yeah Ally Bank Do it Stay there You're good Do nothing This is my favorite advice of all of them do absolutely nothing do nothing yeah trace your job right now is to do nothing i'm exhausted by giving this advice well joe um i will let you rest from your exhaustion because trace was the last question of today already where can people find you if they are hungry for more yes you can find me and very soon again paula pant will be back on the stacking benjamin show we call it the greatest money show on earth because it's a circus on purpose that it's all about helping you prove to yourself that you can do this, that it can be fun.

51:25It can be easier than you think. And so we just started a brand new eight weeks, Paula. Listen to some of the themes we've coming up. We're going to talk about leadership with Oscar Munoz, who is the first Hispanic born individual to lead a major airline, but he also led the turnaround of United Airlines And his discussion about listening is so powerful and about taking care of yourself first. He had a major health issue while he was CEO of United. So that's a big one. A gentleman on Memorial Day weighs over 300 pounds and was told by a lot of people some very bad things about him deciding to go running, like people laughing at him.

52:06And he's a marathoner now, and he's got a huge Instagram community about you can do this, which is exactly what you and I say about finance all the time. Also, last, I'll mention one more. Mignon Francois had$5 to her name. Her neighbor came over and said, why are you in the dark? And she wanted to tell her neighbor that she had no electricity. She took that$5 and her neighbor, by the way, came over because she had a huge cupcake order and she wanted Mignon who made great cupcakes to fill it. and she helped Mignon do that. She turned that$5 into$60, then the$60 into$600. Now she has this cupcake empire that's worth well over$6 million.

52:49It's a great story about going from having nothing to making it happen. So those are a few of the inspiring stories coming up. That's amazing. And all of that is at the Stacking Benjamins podcast, which I will be rejoining very soon when my fellowship at Columbia. We can hear the Calvary coming. Right, exactly. The Paula Calvary is on the way back. How am I doing on that trivia contest, by the way? You're actually winning, which by the way, is for the time, Paulette Perhatch, who writes for major publications and for the New York Times a lot, as an example. Paulette has taken Paula, who is, I don't even describe you as one of the smartest people I know.

53:34My wife says, you are way smarter than me and how we work together is beyond her. But Paula also has a reputation, everybody, for being crappy at our trivia and constantly being in last place at our trivia contest. Perpetual last place for years and years and years. Always last place. It's always OG and Len Penzo fighting over first. But you're in first place, right, Paulette? See, all you had to do is let someone fill in for me and suddenly... Paulette has you in first place when you return. So it's yours to ruin now. It's yours to ruin. Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you for tuning in. This is the Afford Anything podcast.

54:18My name is Paula Pant. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show notes, affordanything.com slash show notes. And if you haven't heard it yet, listen to the beginning of last week's episode to understand why I'm cringing so much at this bank conversation. Thank you again for being part of this community. My name is Paula Pant. I'm Joe Salcihai. And we will catch you in the next episode.

55:04relates to finance, all of this is financial media. That includes the Afford Anything podcast, this podcast, as well as everything Afford Anything produces. And financial media is not a regulated industry. There are no licensure requirements. There are no mandatory credentials. There's no oversight board or review board. The financial media, including this show, is fundamentally part of the media. And the media is never a substitute for professional advice. That means anytime you make a financial decision or a tax decision or a business decision, anytime you make any type of decision, you should be consulting with licensed credential experts, including but not limited to attorneys, tax professionals, certified financial planners or certified financial advisors.

55:54Always, always, always consult with them before you make any decision. Never use anything in the financial media, and that includes this show, and that includes everything that I say and do, never use the financial media as a substitute for actual professional advice. All right, there's your disclaimer. Have a great day.

56:22So Joe, I just started a Twitter war. Oh no. Oh, yes. And I am all in for it. And this is the benefit of not needing a job. This is the benefit of work being optional. So here's what happened. Some dude, some editor, some fancy schmancy publication comes to Columbia today to do a lunchtime talk to teach my graduating class, whom I love and who I'm very protective about. you know, he comes to talk to my graduating class about how they can pitch freelance articles. He tweets this long thread that just goes on and on about how everyone there is dressed in athleisure and they look, quote, schlubby and that the school has really gone downhill.

57:13These are graduate students. Why are they dressing so schlubby? I mean, it's just wow. It was so rude. And it just so happens that this morning I decided to put on a really nice dress. Like I got dressed up to go to school. So I'm in a nice dress, professional dress with a collar, with heels. Not for any reason. I just, I don't know, total coincidence. I just woke up this morning and was like, I feel like dressing up today. Let's go. Right. So I had a friend take a picture of myself with him in the background on stage giving the talk. And I posted, true class and style comes not from how you dress, but from your character.

58:02So boom. Best dressed person there defending all my fellow grad students who he's trashing. I understand what that would have to do with this were a job interview or if this were some of that where I was meeting employers. But if it's my day-to-day, I'm with the same group of people doing the same stuff. Why is dress? I don't understand. Don't get me wrong. I'm a guy that thinks that you should dress. And I do. If I'm meeting with you for the first time and we're in a professional setting where it's like a networking meeting, if you dress up a little bit for that meeting, I think that you have some respect for me.

58:39Right. So I do appreciate that. But in a classroom? Right. Exactly. Exactly. On a college campus in the middle of finals week? Really? Wow, buddy. He was kind of a naysayer. Yeah. What do you think his MO was? You know, I think he's just kind of a negative person in general, because in the remarks that he made, he also said, hey, if you're looking to make a lot of money, you're in the wrong business. And I just kept thinking, buddy, that's a reflection of you, not of your industry. Because there are a lot of journalists out there who have figured out how to make this hyper profitable. I mean, what do you think being a media entrepreneur is?

59:27We live in a time where anyone can become their own media mogul of their own mini empire, their own niche empire. So this guy is talking to students who are a week from graduation during finals week. And he's telling them, oh, if you want to make a lot of money, you're in the wrong end. Really, buddy? And then he's ragging on them for showing up in Lululemon. Come on. I just had a great discussion with Mai Lau, who's the new Pushkin show, Other People's Pockets, where she pretty much, Paula, asks people how much money they make. And she's been a long time investigative journalist. She was with the Los Angeles Times.

1:00:13She said that that was a problem for her was that she had this feeling in her head that because she was a journalist, she wasn't supposed to make much money. That's the game. And she said when she asked people like Adam Davidson, the co-creator of Planet Money, about how much money he was making, and he's like, yeah, I had a down year, I made less than$400 ,000. And this is a guy who's doing journalistic work and he doesn't have that paradigm. And she's like, this is what I needed to hear. I needed to hear that I can do the job I love and I can make good money as well. I don't need to hear somebody telling me, no, you're not going to make much money.

1:00:53Yeah. And you know what that speaks to? That speaks to the idea of reframing from I can't do it to how can I do it? Yeah. And when you reframe, if you say, I am a journalist, therefore I can't make any money. And this goes for plenty of professions. I'm an artist. I'm an actor. I'm a costume designer. If you have decided straight out of the gate that you're going to be poor. Guess what's going to happen? Yeah, you'll be right. But if instead you reframe and you ask the question, how? how can I make a lot of money doing this? How can I make this profitable? Then you figure it the F out. And I know that sounds rainbows and unicorns and blah, blah, theoretical, but we have case study after case study after case study of people who have done precisely that.

1:01:47Look at the highest paid and not just the highest paid like Hollywood celebrities, Like, forget about those. Look at the tier of people who make between$200 ,000 to$500 ,000 per year, right? I think by any definition, even if you live in New York or San Francisco, even if you have six kids, I think pretty much everybody would agree that an income of between$200 ,000 to$500 ,000 per year is considered solid, right? You can live well on that. You can support your family on that, even in a high cost center or even with a large family. And that is within the realm of any occupation. And anyone who tells you otherwise is effectively communicating that they gave up.

1:02:33They gave up. They lost the game. And now they want to inflict their limited thinking on you. That sounds like the MO right there. and then by the way because i'm not making a lot of money maybe then that's a good reason to to bash columbia you know yeah exactly just to quote bring people down to my level yeah i'm not making any money so that and the whole industry is going bad and here's the reason why because these people don't dress in three-piece suits to go to class that's why right yeah what a jerkwad so anyway so So I posted that photo and that, you know, the true class and style comes not from how you dress, but from your character.

1:03:17And I was thinking about it. The reason that I felt the freedom to post that is because, in part, because of the fact that I became a media entrepreneur before going to school, which means I don't have to pitch this guy. I'm not looking for a job. So I'm not afraid of speaking up and defending and protecting. my friends whom he is insulting. Who may need a job. Right. Yeah. And who are super stressed right now. I know how many of my friends are stressed right now. And so that is, we go back to, you know, why does financial independence matter? Or why does entrepreneurship matter? Or why is it important to have multiple streams of income or to have rental properties that provide you with a base?

1:04:08Or a stock portfolio that provides you with a dividend base. Right? When you go back to why, to all the people who are like, why are you so focused on money? It's because you can do stuff like this. You know what? I didn't burn the bridge. He burned the bridge when he decided to rag on the very students that he's coming to purportedly help. He burned that bridge. I'm simply the one who stood up when he said it rather than cowered down. And that's not to rag on anybody else. I understand. If I were hoping to pitch him, if I were thinking that maybe I need him to pay me a trickle of 300 bucks an article, then yeah, I might not, as a 23-year-old or as a 24-year-old, I might just nod and say, yes sir understood sir I'll dress better next time sir but you know what F it I'm not 23 anymore I'm in my late 30s and I've done well and I'm going to use that to defend the 23 year olds who are not yet in a place where they can speak up for themselves even then I think for those people to go to the program directors and say hey just some feedback about this person could be helpful because you want that person back Yeah, yeah.

1:05:31I guess, yeah, that's the official way to do it. You could do it that way. Or you could just tweet. That's a good idea, Joe. I forgot about that route. I guess you could do that too. I never thought about the fact that I might just give some feedback to the people that brought him in.

1:05:50That's a good idea. Look at it. Look. Collaborative problem solving. Paula might do that too now. Tattletail.