Ask Paula: I Sold All My Stocks Last Year. Now I'm Kicking Myself

28:24However, I'm not sure that this is the best way to view my debt for my financial future in the long term. I would love to hear your thoughts on my situation and how best to move forward with student loan repayment as I enter my career as a physician assistant. Thanks in advance. Christina, first of all, congratulations on being so close to graduation. You'll be graduating in one more semester, a few months. So huge congrats to you on that and on the journey that got you here. It requires an enormous amount of work to become a PA. Congratulations on the next chapter that you are about to embark on and on the high income that you will be earning from this point forward, starting in 2024.

29:09Regarding your student loans, well, the first question that comes to my mind is, if you were to refinance your loans, what interest rate would you have on those refinanced loans? There are often two benefits to refinancing. One is the consolidated dashboard, right? You can pay one check rather than having to pay many, many smaller bills. And so that consolidation can simplify things that can simplify management. The other benefit is the lowering of an interest rate. By how much? I don't know. It's actually a third one too. For some people, not necessarily for Christina, but for some people, it's also a lower payment possibly.

29:54So I can consolidate these. And if my cash flow isn't great here, a lot of times you can create a strategy where you just make the payment smaller. Right. But Christina, it sounds as though the impression that I get from the way that you asked that question is that you want to very aggressively pay those off. Yeah. The fact that you mentioned that you'll be making$100 ,000 or more, I can tell from the way that you said that, that you are going to maintain a large gap between what you earn and what you spend, and that you're going to devote a big chunk of that gap to aggressively paying off those student loans.

30:29And so you are absolutely correct in that putting yourself into one of these, like an income-driven repayment program where you're paying for 20 years with forgiveness at the end. Nope. That is not the strategy for you. Instead, what you're going to do is rather than going into one of those programs, you're just going to aggressively pay that effort down, right? Just shovel money at it until it's gone as fast as possible. And I fully support that decision. The dominant question is what would the interest rate be if you were to refi? Well, the exciting thing for me, Paul, about this question is we think about the thinking often, and this is my favorite part of you and I doing this, is we broaden this out.

31:13And to broaden Christina's question out, I think the real question is not whether she does this or not. But it's how do I find the strategy where I don't get blindsided by something in the future, right? So if I'm the CFO of my personal company, I'm not always going to make the optimal decision because the future may change. Things might pop out. But if that happens, did I know what the downsides were of my decision ahead of time? Were there any things that could pop up later that would make me go, oh my goodness, I'm in this horrible spot? So those are really the demons in the plan that I'm looking for.

31:57So if she does consolidate, I want to know about early payment penalties. I want to know, can I change the interest rate again later? Is there any problem there? Because different consolidation places are going to have different terms on that contract. I agree. Income repayment is probably off the table. Yeah. Because let's look at this. let's say she gets in a situation later where income-based repayment plan would be back on the table. She's making this decision with her eyes open, knowing that this is going away. So I have no problem going, yes, I'm going to base this on income-based repayment or no, I'm not.

32:33As long as you know that once you make that decision that you just took it off the table, I think that that makes you a more powerful person to deal with when you know, yes, I'm going this route and the other one's no longer open to me. But it's when you don't know, when you don't know and you get blindsided. So for me, that is the thing I would do. It's about, so Paula, your question about what is the interest rate? Super important. My question would be, what's the fine print going to be if I want to change my game plan again later? Am I overly locked in with this consolidation plan or what moves can I make that will further accelerate this in the future or can help me back it down if things change for the worse.

33:17The other thing I would want Christina to do, I agree with all of that, Joe. And I would add one more thing. Christina, create for yourself a sample budget of how much you think you are going to spend. Basically, what's your budget going to look like once you start working? Do that with, let's say a projected$100 ,000 salary, if that's what you make, do a sample budget. Here's what my rent's going to be. Here's my groceries. You know, make it realistic. You know, I do want to spend more money on travel or on entertainment because I've been deferring that while I've been in school. I'm going to look at what I currently spend in those areas and I'm going to bump it up a bit because I'm going to want to go to brunch a few more extra times.

34:02I'm going to want to take that trip that I typically say no to every year because I don't have the cash for it. Make a realistic budget that gives you some breathing room, but that also shows you in very clear terms exactly how much money in dollars and cents you plan on devoting every month to student loan payoff. And once you have that sample budget, and you can make a couple, make one with a projected $100 ,000 salary, make one with a projected$120 ,000, make, you know, whatever range you think you're going to be starting in, make a couple of sample budgets based on that range. Basically make that timeline so that you have a solid idea of how soon you think you can pay off these student loans.

34:51And once you have that number, you're like, hey, I've made a plan. I think I can pay off these student loans in six years or in seven years, right? Once you make that plan, that's going to give you a lot of information about how you want to proceed between now and then. It gives you information too about the rest of your life because once you've made that commitment, now you can build your other commitments like where am I going to live? What car am I going to drive? Like some of the other expensive things that happen in your life, it's easier to make those decisions around that as well. Right.

35:23Exactly. With the lack of a specific plan, it's easy to be general. To say, I plan on paying off my student loans as fast as I can, but without having a very specific number in mind. It's easy to say, I want to keep my rent low, but without having a particular rental range in mind, right? The more specific you can make your plan, the better. There is a distinction between precision and accuracy, right? specificity is a form of precision. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be accurate. The real world deviates from the best laid plans. So go in fully expecting that reality will differ from expectation.

36:15Reality will differ from the plans that you laid out, but the practice of laying out those plans and the practice of forming a very specific goal around, I want to pay this much towards my loans every month. And I want to have them based on that monthly payoff, completely paid off in this many number of years, right? The more specificity you give that, the closer reality will eventually approximate that. That's super. I love the idea of modeling. And I think what modeling also does for us, I think there's something even more physiological, scientific going on. I think it's training our brain ahead of time to see potential outcomes.

37:01And the more that you do modeling, the more than when you get into situations, whether it's this situation or you're asking your boss for a raise or you're doing whatever it might be. modeling is just, it's such a great, I hate the term hack, but it's such a great practice or tool. Yeah. Cause then you get in the real situation and you feel like you've been here before. Right. And it goes back to Peter Atwater again, confidence. Right. Also, it's funny. I had to laugh when you were talking about a hundred thousand dollars or maybe 120. And then on the low end, maybe 80. I'm like, we're back to standard deviation again.

37:42It's funny. One question after another, we end up with very similar answer. Whole different use case. Yeah. So Christina, I think there's your answer. Model out the payment strategy. And once you've done that, then make a refinancing decision based on the terms of the deal. And I think, Joe, you make a very good point. Is there an early payment penalty? It's going to be one of the most important things you want to look for. So make it based on the terms of the deal, the new interest rate, and how much that would potentially save you or not. Because if you pay it off very, very quickly, then the juice might not be worth the squeeze.

38:29And if a centralized dashboard is important to you, then that can factor into it as well. But based on your question, I don't pick up the impression that that's going to be a major influential factor. And Joe and I have both made this assumption, but I want you to say it out loud, at least to yourself. It doesn't have to be to us, but say it out loud to yourself, write it down for yourself. If you are certain that you do not want to participate in an income-driven repayment plan or in any of those programs that are designed for a 20-year to 25-year payoff term with forgiveness at the end. If you're certain that you don't want that, then write that down and make that part of your plan so that you can decide definitively once and for all, no, that is not for me.

39:24We'll come back to this episode in just a minute. But first, you know, you don't have to let big wireless and your overpriced phone bill suck the joy out of the holidays this year. Because right now, all of Mint Mobile's unlimited plans are 50 % off. You can get three, six, or 12 months of unlimited premium wireless for 15 bucks a month. It's their best deal of the year and makes it real easy for you to give your expensive wireless bill the Scrooge treatment. Mint Mobile's best deal of the year is happening now. So get a 3, 6, or 12-month unlimited plan for$15 a month. All Mint plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network.

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41:30All Mint plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your current phone and number over to Mint, no contracts and no nonsense. I've been using Mint for about five or six years. I've experienced the same quality service that I had with a previous big box provider, but for a fraction of the cost, I've saved hundreds of dollars by switching to Mint. Turn your expensive wireless present into a huge wireless savings future by switching to Mint. Shop Mint Unlimited plans at mintmobile.com slash Paula. That's mintmobile.com slash Paula.

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42:39Joe, how long have you lived in Texarkana? Well, that's a loaded question, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Because you lived there and then you left and then you came back. Yes. So 12 and a half years now, but 10 years. Off and on, yeah. And then I was away for two and then back for two and a half. Maybe the better question is how many times have you moved states? How many states have you lived in? Let's just say that. States of consciousness. States of consciousness that we're talking about. States of denial. I've been there. States of these United States. States of pure euphoria because I'm in on the Afford Anything show.

43:13States. How many states? Oh, no. Just two. Michigan and Texas. That's it. Michigan and Texas. That is it. I mean, I went to college in South Carolina, but yeah, that's it. Nice. All right. Well, the next question that we are going to answer comes from a caller who wants to know about what we do with property, what she should do with property upon moving. Interesting. Yes. So we're about to play this question. It comes from a listener. And she's anonymous, and we give every anonymous caller a name. So I would like to name her after the first woman to receive a Nobel Prize in economics. Wow. So there have been two women who have won the Nobel Prize in Economics, Eleanor Ostrom and Esther Dufflo, which means there have been a total of 92 Nobel Prize in Economics awarded, two of which, or 2.17%, have gone to a woman.

44:13What years? Is it getting better? Oh, let's see. Esther was relatively recently. Let's find out about Eleanor. Eleanor Ostrom was born in 1933 Died in 2012 Oh She conducted field studies on the management Of irrigation systems in western Nepal Look at that How about that She received the Nobel Prize in Economics in 2009 Okay Wow And two years after that she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer Oh Wow So in honor of Eleanor Ostrom The first woman to receive a Nobel Prize in Economics in 2009, our next caller will be named Eleanor. Hi, Paula and Joe. This is Anonymous from Massachusetts. I'm a longtime listener since the Days of the Money show, but first time caller.

45:04My question has to do with the decisions you've both made regarding your primary residences when deciding to embark on a big move. Paula, I know you recently moved from Nevada to New York City. And Joe, I remember you had left Texarkana to travel internationally with your wife before returning to Texarkana. I'm wondering how you both thought about your primary residences, what to do with them, whether to keep them, whether to sell them, whether to rent them out, before embarking on these great adventures, and whether you would do anything differently, given hindsight. A little bit about me. I am in my mid-30s.

45:44I lived with my husband and two little kids, ages three and one, just outside of Boston. I'm a lawyer who has always had an eye towards real estate and would like to someday diversify our personal wealth, maybe with a goal of reaching FI. Although I don't know that I'll ever want to RE. I do love my job. My husband's in higher ed, And that creates an interesting opportunity for us. He might have the ability later in his career to live on a college campus for free with all of us. And that might give us the chance to either sell our home and pocket the equity or rent out our home as an income property.

46:24That decision is not before us today, but it could be someday in our future. It could create a chance for an adventure. But I'm curious as to how you went about thinking about what to do with your primary residences, which came first, the decision to move versus the money and the finances, and just any recommendations you might have for a family who would like to explore this option in the future. Thanks so much. Eleanor, thank you for the question. Thank you for being part of this community and a listener of the show since the days before this was called the Afford Anything podcast. The majority of people who are listening might not remember this or have been around at this time.

47:08But when this show started, it was called The Money Show. And wow, thank you for being around back then, back when this was The Money Show. She's an OG. Yeah. By the way, a very creative name, Paula, The Money Show. I mean, what are we going to talk about? Well, you know, I like for titles to be completely to the point. Like my course, Your First Rental Property. It's unmistakable what that is and who it's for. Know exactly where you're going. Yes. So how did we think about primary residences at the time of move? When I left Las Vegas, there's the financial component. There's the emotional component.

47:51As a general principle, I often hesitate to sell properties because there is such a steep transaction cost associated with selling. If you imagine a mutual fund, there are sometimes big fees with an actively managed mutual fund. There are sometimes big fees on the front end and the back end, which is just a fancy way of saying when you buy it and when you sell it. And these fees can be incredibly steep, and that has softened a bit now, but there have been funds in the past that have had some pretty egregious fees associated with them. When that happens in a mutual fund, everyone protests, and there are lawsuits, and there's a big backlash.

48:41But in a house, it's standard practice. It's completely standard that you would pay a 6 % haircut as a seller to your real estate agents on the both buyer and seller side, plus a share of other closing costs as well. Given how steep the transaction costs are when transacting a piece of property, I very much hesitate to sell unless there is a compelling reason to do so. If I need the cash from a property, I would rather just take out a cash out refinance than I would sell. But I say that coming from the perspective of someone who likes rental properties and has a desire to hold a portfolio of properties.

49:26So that answer is going to be different if that condition wasn't there. So all of that is to say when I left Las Vegas, I decided to hold knowing that if I ever wanted to tap the equity, I could always do a cash out refi on that property, which I haven't done, but it's nice to know that that's an option. You're pretty clear about what you were doing in Manhattan, too, that you were going to rent, right? Yes. So you also knew you didn't need that equity for another property. Correct. Or we're going to use that equity for another property. Correct. If I was, well, you know, a lot of people sell, they'll make offers that are contingent on the sale of their current home because they need that as part of their financing.

50:15If I was going to buy another property, I would do one of two things. I would either wait and save up the down payment for that next property, or I would cash out refi the home, the primary residence that I was leaving and use that cash out refi money as down payment money for the next property. And then take out an 80 to 90 % loan secured by the next property as a mortgage, an FHA loan or a conventional loan. And then the remainder of the bulk of that down payment would then come from the cash out refi from the previous property. It's then allowing you to still hold it. Correct. Yeah. The premise behind that statement is that the debt incurred from the cash out refi plus the additional debt from the purchase of the new property, when added together, would be small enough that it would not disqualify me from a new loan.

51:20And that is to say, when you're taking out a loan on a new purchase, a lender is going to look at, again, your front-end ratio and your back-end ratio. Those terms keep coming up. Front-end ratio is the proportion of your income that you spend on this particular home that you're buying. Like the proportion, you know, how much the mortgage represents as a proportion of your overall income. So a conservative lender might say, I want a front-end ratio of no more than 28%, meaning I want your principal interest taxes and insurance to represent no more than 28 % of your income. And a conservative lender might say, I want your back-end ratio, meaning your total debt payments, including the mortgage on this property, to be no more than 36%.

52:07So if I could maintain a back-end ratio of 36 % by taking out a mortgage on my next property plus cash out refining from my previous property, I would do that. It's funny how our thought processes were completely different. Joe's not afraid of transaction costs. Well, I love real estate investing and I'm actually going to be getting back into more real estate investing here in the future. It's never been my lead and frankly, never a core part of my portfolio. So when we left, we actually moved not internationally. We've had friends, mutual friends like Chad Carson, who went and lived overseas for a while.

52:51I just went back to Michigan, which some people may call overseas, depending on where you live, very close to Canada. But we moved back because Cheryl had some family that was ill, and there were a variety of reasons to move to Michigan. And frankly, because we didn't have any family in Texarkana. All of our family was in Michigan. Our kids were grown, and so we decided it was the time to move back. So when we originally moved back, that was the goal. The more exciting story, though, is when conditions changed and a bunch of stuff changed that's irrelevant for this, and we decided what the next move was.

53:26we were going to be nomads. And our goal then was to sell everything, which by the way, is something I would never have done. Even during my time as a financial planner, it was really much more being around the inspirational people that I've met the past 14 years who do these exciting things with their life and normalized it for me. You know what I mean? Where these things that I would have never, you're not going to have a house. What the hell are you talking about? you're not going to have a house. When Cheryl said that she was going to take a position that could move around for what she did, I said, well, why don't we just sell everything and I'll just move wherever you are.

54:07And as long as we have internet, I can do that. And by the way, when you're deciding what your next thing is, or if you want to do anything at all, we will go to Portugal for a month or we'll go to Bali for a month or we'll go and we'll do this. And I actually, Paul, at one point, I rented a place in Bali for a month. Didn't get to use it because this thing called COVID hit. So, so that went away. So we go ahead. That's going to be the plan. We're going to sell all our stuff and we are going to be digital nomads. And that was, that was my, it was this exciting thing. I was so, cause that's really what I wanted to do during my quote retirement too, was just go see the world and I don't need stuff.

54:45It's just stuff. And it was really cool. The first day then, so the pandemic hits, but then the first day that we are able to put our house on the market. We do. We have six offers and we get an agreement very quickly. And I think within three days, my house was, the agreement was done. Everything was done there. Then we had an estate sale where it was funny. The horrible amount of stuff I got for all of my worldly possessions was so minuscule and so depressed. It makes you realize that your your net worth and your self-worth really truly do need to be two different things. I didn't care about the money.

55:23I just wanted the psychic energy of owning that stuff to go bye-bye. And so everything we had, with the exception of a few things that were really family treasures that were really a part of us, we got rid of. And then we're just waiting for this one license that Cheryl needed to do her thing. And we have the car packed, everything's ready to go. House is sold. Stuff is gone. We get this call and because of COVID, there's no job. And so the whole plan, the whole plan changed in one day. But the cool thing, this is the great thing. When you don't have a house and you don't have any possessions and you've done a good job building toward financial independence, we just looked at each other and said, where do you want to go?

56:07Because we don't have to be anywhere. As long as there's internet, I can still podcast. so we moved to Vermont for a month we lived in Palm Springs for a month we went and took care of my co-host on Stacky Benjamin's house OG well he went to northern Michigan we took care of their house we spent some time we did all these cool outdoor things because you couldn't do anything inside you couldn't see a ton of people during COVID but the cool thing was because I play tested this I realized I flippin hated it that I did I did not want to be a digital nomad right you know what I do love slow travel still.

56:42And if I could go just spend a month in Vermont again, I'm going to do that. I love the idea of having a house in Bali for a month. I love those ideas. I just need a home. I need a home. I'm a home body who needs a home base. Yeah. And so when you and I have talked before about playtesting your goals, this was my opportunity to actually do that, to playtest it and go, oh, flawed, huge flaw, right, in this whole thing. So when we made the decision to come back to Texarkana, we then once again, blue sky, we can move anywhere. We realized that you have two families. You've the family you're born into and you've the family you develop.

57:19And we realized the family we developed was in this little town in Northeast Texas, right on the Arkansas border. And we, we came back. I actually gave a talk a few weeks ago to the Kiwanis Club here locally, Paula, because they're like, you came back? What are you talking about? You came back. It's funny, though, Paula, you know, between the two of us still. I also think, though, you thought at the time, because I remember at the time you thought you were probably there's a chance you could go back to Vegas and you'd still also still on the property then. Yeah. Right. I'm not going back to Vegas, though.

57:54No, but originally when you went, that door was open. Yeah, and that made me feel more confident about the move. You know, decisions that are irreversible certainly require significantly more thought than decisions that are reversible. Yeah, and for me, I had closed the – when we had the estate sale, that was mentally – I couldn't go back. There was no going back. Right, exactly. Whereas for me, I left the door open. I made the decision reversible. It would be easy to go back if I wanted to. And, you know, now that I'm here, I'm like, this is amazing. I don't have any intention to go back. I love New York.

58:31I want to be here for the foreseeable forever. But in the initial move, it was nice to know that that option was there. So, yeah. So I think that highlights how different people kind of have different approaches. Do you burn the boats or do you hang on to a dinghy? Yeah. But, you know, half of this question is, would I do anything different? It's wild. All the stuff that we sold, there's only a couple things. This is what's so sad about accumulating stuff is that there's only a couple things where I'm like, maybe I shouldn't have sold that, you know, but the vast majority, I don't even remember it, you know, like, I don't remember what I had.

59:12And you look at these, you got these closets full of stuff. You got this house full of stuff. And then you have an estate sale and you can't even remember what you owned. That's not important. So I don't know that I would do it different, Paula. Probably erase the whole pandemic part of it. But in terms of like the decision making that we made to go test drive it and do it, would I still hang on to that house? So this is funny. We lived in the house for two years. We got a lot of upside. Detroit was going through this nice resurgence and we got a lot of upside. So we made a bunch of money on the house.

59:42The people we sold it to also, by the way, sold it within about a two-year time frame. the money they made killed the money I made. Like that neighborhood continued going up and it made me go, oh, maybe I should have held onto that house. But you know what? I don't regret it because of what we have said in previous questions, which is once you know what a potential downside is, is that it will continue to go up after I got rid of it. Once I was comfortable getting rid of it and I divorced myself from that property, then if it went out good for them, you know, that it went up. Could that have been another, I can't Monday morning quarterback that.

1:00:19I can't go back and redo it. So there's no, no sense playing that game. So I don't know that I would have done much differently. Would you've done anything differently? Yeah, it's funny because we're giving the opposite answers. You sold the house and sold your stuff and you wouldn't do anything differently. I held onto the home, held on to my stuff and I wouldn't have done anything differently. Yeah. So we have just given the least helpful answer in the history of answers. You're welcome. You're so welcome. Yeah, no, I wouldn't do anything differently. If repeating the same decisions, I would continue.

1:01:00Well, and I am right in real time. I am continuing to hold on to my primary home, my primary resident, former primary residence in Las Vegas. If I ever wanted to change that, I could always sell it, but I'm continuing to hold it. I'm a guy who feels a lot of fear. And I will say this, the one place where you and I intersect, Paula, in these two stories of you moving across the country, me going on this adventure of where am I going to live? What am I going to do? Is exactly that word, adventure, is treating life like it's an adventure. And that's something that I was always afraid of. I was afraid to do because of all the things that can go wrong on an adventure.

1:01:43But once you realize that crap going wrong is actually part of the fun of the adventure and becomes, as long as you live through it, there's a great story there about how you messed it up. It ends up being a part of the lore of the whole adventure. So treating life like it's an adventure, I think is our intersection. and that is exactly what I would encourage Eleanor to do. Go do it. Go try it out. Our friend, Paula, you know Heidi Dusik? Do you know Heidi Dusik? I don't think I do, no. She has a podcast called Ordinary Sherpa. Heidi did something that I would have never done with my kids. She lives in Wisconsin.

1:02:16She took her kids out of school completely and she and her husband and her three boys are taking a sabbatical year while the kids are elementary, middle school, maybe early high school age. Like right in the formative years, everybody is gone. They took time off their jobs. They're not financially independent yet. They're in a van. They just got back from the Arctic Circle. It's just exciting watching Heidi and her family live an adventure together at a time when most people will say you shouldn't do that. Screw them. Like, go do it. And it's so exciting to watch these people do it. And you know what?

1:02:56Watching them is great. Doing it myself is even better. Yeah. Some of my most formative experiences were international travel when I was a kid. Going to Nepal when I was three, when I was six, when I was nine, I'd go every three years. That's weird. I didn't get that from those numbers at all. Thank you. I would spend three months there. I would spend the entire summer. I would go a few days after school let out, and I would come back just a few days before the school year started. I'd spend the full summer there every third summer. And honestly, sometimes I look around New York, New York, I look around Manhattan and it reminds me of Kathmandu.

1:03:35That's funny. Like a cleaner, a much cleaner, nicer, more well-organized, more well-run Kathmandu. And there are times when I wonder, do I love New York so much because it is the closest thing I can find to Kathmandu in America? That's funny. That's cool. Yeah. So I hope Eleanor that answered that answer the question. If your husband can live on a college campus and you can get rid of that. That sounds amazing. Yeah. Getting rid of those cost is cool. You know, it's even cooler. Just the adventure that you guys did that together. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds amazing in so many regards. So neat. When we first moved.

1:04:14And the community on a college campus. It's just, yeah, it's so nice. Absolutely. I mean, that time, if it lasts six months, if it lasts two years, whatever it lasts is so neat. And just the change up. So I lived in a, you know, you can buy a lot of house in Texarkana, Texas for not a lot of money. So I lived in a nice sized house. Our house, when we moved back to Michigan, sold much quicker than I thought it would. I thought it would either sell quick or it would take a long time because it was kind of architecturally significant house, very quirky house. when we sold it, it sold very quickly.

1:04:45And so we were going to be here for another six months. So Paula, we moved into a 400 square foot apartment. There was a tiny kitchen, a bedroom and a living room on the second floor over a friend of mine's dad's garage. Had I not lived in that house, I would have never had the aha when we lived in Michigan that this is just stuff. You know what I mean? How big is your place right now? 600 square feet. Yeah. Yeah. So in a 400, 600 square feet, you can have a lot of stuff there. I feel like I have a ton of stuff. I like – it's amazing how much stuff you can fit in 600 square feet if you are extremely efficient.

1:05:26If you try. Yeah. Yeah. If you try. Well, because I have my bedroom, my kitchen. Sure. My home office is here. Yeah. Right? So – which means I have camera equipment. I have lighting equipment. I have a big step and repeat. You know, those like, you know, when you see people on the red carpet, the big banners, I have a big afford anything step and repeat. Like I have work stuff here in addition to home stuff. Well, we had, we had nothing and all of our stuff was in storage, which by the way, when all of your stuff is in storage for a few months, you realize how little you actually need that stuff.

1:06:02Like I remember packing it and we got to Michigan and I'm like, I didn't need any. Do I really need this anymore? And I remember taking a lot of stuff to Goodwill and having less stuff. But I don't think I would have made the big move had I not made that move to a much different existence for a few months. So this idea of this one little adventure we had for a few months, it was kind of an accident because our house sold too quickly, created the huge adventure we had later. And I was more brave because I did that. And I bet, you know, the first time you go to Nepal, well, you were three, so maybe not.

1:06:37But if you go as an adult, the first time you go, you're like, eh, I don't know. The second time you go, I bet you're, you know, you're like, oh, I know this neighborhood. I know this area. I know that restaurant. There's more confidence. The third time you do it, it gets even easier. So I think adventure kind of begets more adventure. Right. Right. But I think maybe part of the question that she was asking is, to speak to the financial side of things, financially, either way, you're good. I feel like if you sell, you can invest that money. You can use it as a down payment on your next place. You can put it into index funds.

1:07:12You can use it to start a business. There's so many things you can do with it to invest it and use it wisely. And likewise, if you hold, you have an owner-occupant mortgage, a primary residence mortgage, which is the most competitive mortgage rate of all loan products out there. Fabulous. And you're not paying the transaction costs on selling. So cool. All right. Great. And you're very acquainted with the property. So you're going to be able to anticipate any major repairs that that property is going to likely need. Well, and that's what I like about her owning this. if this is going to be her first rental property, I really like that.

1:07:48I like the familiarity of it. It's going to be much more comfortable than a different property. You're going to know all of the things. It's going to be more difficult for a handy person to come in after you've moved away and try to rip you off because something's broken. You're like, no, no, no. I know that basement. Yeah. I know that water heater. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way that's a problem or I know a better way to do that. So I love the familiarity as a way to get your feet wet if she wants to buy more real estate in the future. Yeah, exactly. Thank you for asking that question. I hope that gave you some perspective in thinking about what to do with your primary residence when eventually you move.

1:08:27Speaking of home, we have a very special call that we want to share. Hey there, this is Islambek from Uzbekistan. It's my first time listening to your podcast. the episode was 448 and at the very end for the third question there was a woman talking about trying to visit Uzbekistan sometime in the future that is absolutely beautiful how life made us come to this point when this is my first episode and they are already talking about Uzbekistan like my home country and this is amazing just wanted to say this very interesting point yeah you have a great day keep up the good work and thank you so much oh thank you so much thank you for that note welcome welcome to the afford anything community i'm so glad you're here thank you so much for that note how beautiful is that so awesome first time listening right it's a sign and all of a sudden halfway around the world and you go what you want to visit where it's a sign it's a sign and as you'll recall the question that we answered that related to Uzbekistan came from a woman who had received an inheritance.

1:09:43She was a teacher, so she didn't make very much money. And what she really wanted to do with this money was travel. She wanted to pace it out. And so she thought once every two years, I want to do a really special trip. And the first trip that she wanted to take was she wanted to go to Uzbekistan. So that was a question that we answered. And how beautiful that our first-time listener, Islambek, from Uzbekistan, was tuning in right at that moment. I think it's a sign the Afford Anything community is meant to be together. I think so. Well, Joe, we've done it. I can't believe it. Joe, how can people find you if they want to hear more of you?

1:10:24You can find me and the amazing Paula Pant every Friday on the Stacky Benjamin show. You'll hear me every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You'll hear Paula on Fridays and some exciting developments going on on Paula's appearances on Fridays. Anyways, we've changed our, if you haven't listened to our Friday round tables in a while, we've made them a little bit more tactical lately. We're talking about some things that are a little bit more on the nerdy side. I don't know what it is, Paula. You go through things that interest you. Sometimes philosophy really interests you. A lot of times that interests me too.

1:10:59Right now, what really interests me about these conversations is like, how do I do a 401k rollover and what could possibly go wrong? So we put together three people like you and OG and a guest and talk about all the things that they've seen go wrong with 401k rollovers. Or like one we just recorded as of this recording, we had Christine Benzon with us from Morningstar and talked about, you know, what if you're paying a bunch of taxes in your taxable account? How do you lower that tax bill? That's what I'm interested in right now. So that's what you're hearing on our roundtable discussions every Friday.

1:11:31And Christine Benz is brilliant. So that was a great discussion. It was pretty heavy duty. Doug, our announcer guy, mom's neighbor, Doug, usually comes up with some, you know, baloney takeaway. And he's like, I, there's so much here. Joe, I need help. So it was really good. It was a great discussion. Can't wait for people to hear it. Nice. And that is on the Stacking Benjamins podcast, which you can listen to wherever you get your podcasts. Yes. Here on the, I always call it the Westwood One radio network, but maybe it's a - Cumulus. I don't like the name Cumulus. You've said that before. No. Let's call it Westwood One.

1:12:10Thank you so much for tuning in. My name is Paula Pant. This is the Afford Anything podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our show notes, affordanything.com slash show notes. Our rental property course, Your First Rental Property, is reopening for enrollment on September 5th, September 5th. If you are interested in learning about how to invest in rental properties, be there or be square. You can get lots of information on our VIP list. It's totally free. Affordanything.com slash VIP list. And I will see you in class again if you want to learn more about rental property investing.

1:12:48That class is our flagship course. We spent three years developing it. We went through multiple rounds of beta. We gathered tens of thousands of data points. It is incredibly robust. It takes you A to Z through what you need to know in order to become a confident, well-informed rental property investor. So your first rental property. Get more information at affordanything.com slash VIP list. Doors open September 5. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Paula Pant. I'm Joe Salci. Hi. We will catch you in the next episode.

1:13:31Here is an important disclaimer. There's a distinction between financial media and financial advice. Financial media includes everything that you read on the internet, hear on a podcast, see on social media that relates to finance. All of this is financial media. That includes the Afford Anything podcast, this podcast, as well as everything Afford Anything produces. And financial media is not a regulated industry. There are no licensure requirements. There are no mandatory credentials. There's no oversight board or review board. The financial media, including this show, is fundamentally part of the media.

1:14:09And the media is never a substitute for professional advice. That means anytime you make a financial decision or a tax decision or a business decision, anytime you make any type of decision, you should be consulting with licensed credential experts, including but not limited to attorneys, tax professionals, certified financial planners, or certified financial advisors. Always, always, always consult with them before you make any decision. Never use anything in the financial media, and that includes this show, and that includes everything that I say and do. Never use the financial media as a substitute for actual professional advice.

1:14:52All right, there's your disclaimer. Have a great day.

1:15:00Hey, do you leave me on screen for the full thing? Yeah. Like in the video? Well, it's up to Steve because he will sometimes zoom in on one of us or the other. Good. Because, Steve, I want to eat a sandwich that Cheryl just brought me. So I'm just going to tell Steve. Tell me I'm eating a sandwich. Or do. I'm on camera eating gummy bears.