Bachelorette Star Jason Tartick: The Truth About Financial Infidelity

25:16And so what we need to do is then move from the dull background to a sharper acute pain. Yes. What are some mechanisms that allow us to really feel the sharpness of that sting? Yeah. And I think that the challenge with that question is what motivates me to get healthier when I need to get healthier, right? What motivates me to eat healthier when I need to? What motivates you? Those are going to be totally night and day. So this is where I think the consumer has to take ownership and say, hey, I hear what's being done. I hear that I need acute pain. I know that I need to do it. What is it that motivates you, right?

25:51Is it the fact that you need to prepare for your retirement and you're behind? Is it the fact that you don't have nearly what you need in emergency saving and health savings accounts to take care of yourself and your loved ones? what is it going to be for each individual? Because everyone is going to motivate us differently. And I would say whoever's listening, you got to really think about what is it that motivates you? What are the things that drive you? I could tell you when I talk to my parents about money and preparing for the next step, I know if I go to my mom and dad and say, mom, we need to start talking about what your long-term picture looks like.

26:24Do we have your assets in the right place if you guys have to go to long-term care, et cetera? Are we prepared? If I start talking like that, it doesn't create acute pain for them. I know it does create acute pain. Mom, dad, I really want to have kids one day. You guys have moved six times. You've made your career the focus while being great parents. What do you want your legacy to be with your money? Do you want to potentially contribute to one day, hopefully my child's school? Do you want a non-for-profit? it? Do you want that bench in the park? So when I talk to them about things like that, they get motivated in different ways.

27:03And I think everyone at home is going to, they're going to have different things that's going to really get them going. And it's hard to pinpoint that other than saying, kind of having those conversations with one another to understand it. It goes back to the earlier conversation about values, find the thing that you value the most, and then recognize where the pain is associated with that. Exactly. It's like a priority probe. Understand what is the biggest priority to you. And then I think based on that, adjust accordingly. And I think thinking about what does money actually mean to you? You can think to yourself right now, if I thought about three words, what does money mean to me?

27:40To me, it means I think about legacy. I think about freedom. And then I think about leverage. So those words, like a lot of my financial behaviors are connected to, I have the freedom to work in a place that I want to work how I want to work. So I know for me, when I'm spending or when I'm kicking things to the curb, I need to go to my priority of, that's fine. You could do that. But do you want to be back tied to the desk eight to five? Or do you want this freedom that you have? Well, I want this freedom. Okay. Now I have to make finance a focus today. How do you define freedom? To me, freedom is having the flexibility to kind of do what you want, how you want, the way you want.

28:22And although sometimes it comes at a cost, pursuing passions. It's like the old Steve Jobs quote of when he talked about passions, like everyone talks about passion, passion. But the real truth is when you're working in something that's aligned with passion is that you are willing to do things that don't logically make sense. He's like, I've been fired from this company, kicked off the board. This company was broke. And if I wasn't passionate about it, anybody with a logical mindset would have been gone five times over. But when you're doing something that's passionate, you're not thinking about the logic you're pursuing with emotion and ego and everything that you have, your whole soul.

28:57And as a result of that, I think the financial freedom gives me the ability to do that, even when and if financially it doesn't make sense. You've mentioned the legacy and leverage also is two other words you associate with money. We'll talk about legacy last. I'm curious how you define leverage. Leverage is a big one. It matters in, I would say, almost all circumstances, but I'll give you one example. One of the places that I earn money is through content creation and brand partnerships. If I know that my rate should be held at a certain value, and I also have a pretty good pipeline, but I've been responsible with my money, that I have a good cushion in that space, I can negotiate harder.

29:41I'm not chasing the next deal. I don't have to get the next deal because I've been responsible with my money. So my money gives me leverage to negotiate in things like brand deals. That's just one instance. But we also know that money can provide negotiating power and almost any form of consumer purchasing or consumer decisions. And I think that that's a big, big tool. The more money, I think it's a leverage mechanism for a lot of things. So what's interesting is so in that definition, what I heard leverage almost as a synonym for power. Yeah, I think it's purchasing power. I think it depends on specifically, what the resource is being used for and how.

30:26But for example, let's talk about just retail investment, advisement, or working in a higher net worth, like a private banking scenario, or like an ultra high net worth or a hedge fund. We know that in those circumstances, the more money accumulated, the more value and money and profitability you're creating for others. Therefore, as a result, the more accessibility you'll have to certain things. That's just a basic example that connects to investment options. But yeah, I think in this world, the more money you've accumulated, it can give you leverage to do what you want. And it also gives you a lot more purchasing power.

31:07Anyone here listening to this, have they gone against a cash offer when they're trying to buy that first time house or that second home, right? You know that you're kind of in a tough place when there's no contingencies cash only, right? So we know that having accumulated wealth can help with purchasing power and therefore gives yourself leverage. Right, right. All of 2020, it seemed like every home offer was all cash, no contingencies. All of it. And I think even when I worked at the bank, when we were doing deals left and right, we were looking at the holistic relationship of the consumer. So even if that consumer was a, let's say they're the CEO and 50 % owner of their company, they would get massive advantages like if they had their other opportunities that we could capture at the bank, even though it had nothing to do with commercial or corporate lending, right?

31:54So in those circumstances, we were pricing according to the potential value of that customer. And as a result of that, they got decreased fees, decreased interest rates, et cetera, better structures. I mean, that was a big part of the selling point to credit officers. Hmm. Let's say a new customer or a new client comes into the bank. They own a small business. They're interested in doing their first deal on an eight unit small apartment building. They seem sort of like an up and comer, but they're not yet highly established. They're getting their feet wet. I'm kind of giving a profile. Many of the people who are listening to this.

32:30Yeah. How easy or difficult would it be to look at a given person and think that person is just doing a deal in isolation because they're new versus that person is right at the beginning of something that could be a lifelong relationship. And what were the distinguishing factors between the two? There's two big words I heard there. So one, of course, was profiling and then one like getting the idea and thinking about the idea. The biggest thing you learned in banking is that stories shift, context changes, but numbers just don't lie. And any idea, of profiling within the bank, you always found yourself surprised when you made assumptions of what someone could have versus what you assume they have.

33:10I was almost always, always, always incorrect. This also ties to there's a lot of financial infidelity that happens in relationships. And so we know that married and cohabitating relationships, there is one person 43 % of the time committing financial infidelity, which is material, stealing, cheating through money. There was an example of an individual that did kind of this thing. They assumed they saw the person was making good money. Their husband, who they married quickly at the time, had told them that their credit struggled, so they didn't want to be on the mortgage. But he would Venmo half of the money or sell half the money for the mortgage because he had good earnings.

33:48So because he had good earnings, she had confidence in it. She gets the mortgage. Both of them go on the deed. The day they close, literally the day they close, the IRS owns the entire house because of his back taxes. And so this was one of many examples that we saw. This one, we wrote about it because we could prove all the moving parts of it to put it in the book. But I think when we assume or when we profile, it leaves everyone up for gray area. And we know gray area and money and relationships or someone walking into the bank creates a higher risk. And so I think it's always like, especially with a bank, like how, you know, signed PFS, getting tax returns, getting as much accumulated data as you possibly can to understand what is the true profitability of this customer.

34:33And if you're someone that's going into the bank to negotiate, bring your statements. Have a PFS ready to go. Have your tax returns ready to go. A PFS is a personal financial statement. Yeah. Have everything that you can possibly bring to the table to showcase, I am a value to your bank. How badly do you want me? especially in a time where banks are clawing at assets and lending's getting a little tougher. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lending is getting both more expensive and more difficult to qualify. Right. One thing I often tell the audience or remind the audience is there's a distinction between capital being more expensive to access versus capital being more difficult to access.

35:15Yes. One is qualification and the other is cost. Yes. In this case, both. All of the above. Yeah. Which makes for like a, especially small businesses looking to grow, like you need capital to grow. So it makes it even more challenging. Right. Yeah. Now I remember that story of the woman who took out the mortgage in her own name, but she put her husband's name on the deed and boom, that then made it his asset, which the IRS could then repo. They divorced because he had lied to her about his finances, right? That was, that's extreme financial infidelity. And she and her new husband now have to pay$100 ,000 to the IRS to cover his back taxes.

35:56Unbelievable. And that's the crazy thing about money is like if the contracts are done the way that you think they're being done versus the way they must be done, it doesn't matter. I don't know if anyone here had seen the Netflix show, The Tinder Swindler, but it was an international trending story and show in all countries. And so in this, if you haven't seen it, essentially it's a Netflix documentary of an individual who's a fraudster who manipulates his predators, his victims, to take out credit card debt and then give him the credit card to pay for certain things. It sounds crazy. Anybody would be like, what?

36:38But if you watch the show, you'll see how incredible his tactics were. And we interviewed one of the girls who got over$200 ,000, I believe, of credit card debt in 50-some days approved. And even this circumstance, where internationally, this gentleman is known as a fraudster, as a most wanted individual in some areas. And still to this day, she can't live in her country because she had to clean bankruptcy. And every single one of those banks and creditors are still coming after her. So there is no leeway in this game of financial infidelity. There is no, we feel bad for you. The law of the land are the numbers and the words.

37:16And unfortunately, we know a lot of people lie and manipulate through those things. So we have to be that much more cautious and that much more diligent. Right. The law of the land are the numbers and the words and spoken promises don't account for anything. Don't account for anything. And that's why interpersonal loans are the number one defaulting loan in the country right now. Loans that are made to friends and that are made in relationships are the number one most likelihood to default, right? Because those are done on handshake agreements and handshake agreements in 2024, unfortunately don't exist or shouldn't.

37:49Exactly. Exactly. And so that brings us back to the topic of couples because couples often have a lot of handshake agreements between one another when it comes to everything from how they split the renter mortgage to whose name goes on to what asset to, and I know you with your ex-girlfriend, there was an issue about the dog. Yeah. What's crazy about this whole thing with the dogs, so we rescued two dogs from a non-for-profit that does a really, really good work in getting dogs that are in these kill shelters abroad and into the States, and then we were able to rescue them. Now, one of the issues I've learned through this breakup is that there are, oh my God, there are attorneys in this country making their entire careers off dog custody battles.

38:37You would never think that. It's crazy, but it's a real thing. And I think the takeaway for me is that you have to think about what assets are meaningful to you in the place you reside and ask yourself, do you have a solution in place if things don't work out? A written solution. Yeah, I was going to say. And do you have a solution? And is that binded by the law? And so I say that because you never think of these unbelievable fur babies that give you so much love as an asset. But according to the state law, they are an asset. From dogs to anything that is material to you, do you have a binding plan that is contractually executed?

39:16And if you don't, it's something to think about. I also think that these conversations, and just a little update, we've been able to work through everything. So there's no quarrels or qualms with the dogs or anything. I want to make sure I'm not leaving people wondering or assuming. So everything is good. But we also know that it's hard to have those conversations. It's hard to be like, okay, I bought this$6 ,000 TV. If things don't work out, who gets it? That's challenging. But I also think having the conversation shows you your cards, hopefully allows us some form of compromise. And if it's done in a healthy way, I actually think it unifies the relationship.

39:54Because as opposed to wondering what if or the gray area of the unknown, you now have certainty. And when we leave things up to certainty, we know that the cost of it is material, especially if it leads to divorce. Right. And so how do you approach that then? If you have a partner whose position is, we trust each other, why does it have to be in writing? Yeah, I mean, that's a tough one, right? I think it's a tough one. But I also think we know statistics historically. And I think when we know statistics about anything as individuals and humans, we adjust things, right? Like when we know that, and this is no shade to anybody that's a cigarette smoker, but we now have more information than we did 30 years ago about the impact of smoking cigarettes habitually.

40:43And it's not good. And what's happened, right? We consume less cigarettes, right? There are so many examples of that as humans that we consume less of or make adjustments. And as a result of that, we're living longer, et cetera. But for some reason, we know divorce rates at 50 % and we can see the history, but we all still kind of run from it. And there's also this thing right now called the gray divorce. And people that are over 50 right now are getting divorced at a 2X multiplier from 1990. People over 65 are getting divorced at a 3X multiplier from 1990. So it's happening. It's happening often.

41:16And the other thing I'll say is the laws are in place already, right? Like everyone listening, if you're married, you have a prenup. The prenup is just whatever your state laws are. And I know the Tennessee laws are different than New York and different than California and Florida, et cetera. So the idea is like, why not customize this stuff for the benefit of both, not one, both individuals where they have assets and just things at stake. Like even whoever's providing for the family, if someone is staying home, think about the the career that they're putting on hold. Think about the income potential they're putting on hold.

41:50Those are things that they should be protected by. And so I think they're tough conversations, but we know historically they need to happen. So, I mean, personally, I agree with you, but I've seen a lot of people on Twitter. I should not go on Twitter. Twitter's tough. That's the toughest one, I think. Be careful on there. I guess X, as they call it now. I've seen a lot of people on X who will argue, oh, that's like you're just planning to break up. You're just planning to fail. Yeah. I mean, my response to that would be like, okay, well, if you do fail, then you're going to go to laws you haven't even looked at.

42:25So why not just go look at what's there and say, okay, just in case we know what's there, right? You know the speed limit, so you don't drive over the speed limit. Why not at least look at the laws that currently exist? You're agreeing to a contract. Would you agree to a contract if you didn't see it? Probably not. So why don't you at least look. That's one. And the second thing I would tell them is that historically, we know that 50 % of relationships don't work out. And what I would put on top of that is we know that from the research and everything that we found is that money arguments are the second leading reason for divorce.

43:03And so if you are talking about this stuff, you're not actually setting yourself up for failure. You're not manifesting a negative connotation. You're actually doing the opposite. You're looking at the fact that people that don't talk about money in married and cohabitating relationships are severely impacted by divorce rate, are impacted by money arguments. And another stat I didn't even put out there is those 73 % that said that money arguments create material tension in the relationship. Over half of them said it impacts or intimacy. So we know that having these conversations is positively impacting all areas of our relationship.

43:40And so I think avoiding them is not putting off a potential failure. I think stepping into them is actually creating unity through conversation. Now, you mentioned earlier that when you know statistics, you can make more informed decisions, but I will just pose the counter argument. We also know that the majority of would-be entrepreneurs, the majority of small businesses fail. Yeah, true. The status, something to the effect of four out of five small businesses fail. And yet we all, I mean, I actively encourage my audience, go start a small business. Sure. Sure. Do it despite the fact that four out of five fail.

44:17Right. So there does have to be a certain level of looking at the stats we'll use in the context of starting a small business and saying, you know what? I know that's what the stats say, but I'm going to be the one out of five that succeeds. Yeah. Yeah. I think my counter to that would be the equivalent of not starting a business because failure rate is high is apples to apples compared to not getting married because divorce rate is high. I'm not saying don't get married. I'm saying if you get married, have contracts in place to protect you and your significant other. Similarly, all five people that you encourage to start their small business, I too would say, absolutely start that business.

45:00Give it a shot. But what I would tell them is if we know four or five fail, contractually make sure you're in a good position with an operating agreement and insurances and protecting yourself before you decide to go in with a partner, before you decide to start the business. So you're creating a protection mechanism should those statistics that we know become a reality. That's a very good answer. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Let's talk about cohabitating couples. Okay. Because oftentimes cohabitating couples, because they're not married, don't have formal agreements in place. I heard you on the Girls Gotta Eat podcast.

45:36And one of the two hosts described an incident in which her boyfriend cheated on her. They lived together, but only her name was on the lease. His wasn't. And so she just locked him out. And she just locked him out. Is it weird? And I loved her at the rate. I love her. But I was like, in that worst circumstance, I'm like, oh, he got hustled there. Yeah. And he was like, I live here. And she was like, prove it. Yeah. Truly, though. Right. And I was like, oh, that's cold. Yeah. Cold. Wow. I know. I was like, oh, damn. I didn't want to give my opinion. But I was like, see, this guy should listen to this episode.

46:11But that stuff happens all the time. It's nonstop. I even said on that podcast, I put out, yeah, I've done a lot of weird things with social media in six years from dating shows to personal finance stuff. And the number one most replied to still to this day is when I said, shoot me a message or email me a story of you or someone you know that has experienced some type of financial fraud or some type of financial heart, like material hardship with their significant other. That was the most amount of volume that we got from feedback and insight and storytelling. And I think everyone has a story similar to that one.

46:44And I think unfortunately with finances or most things in life, we only learn through other people's mistakes. And I just think if you're putting yourself in any position where you are living with someone else and especially someone else who is a loved one, all of these T's and these I's have to be crossed. And I think if we can look at them as crossing them, not as a means of preventative hardship, but more as a means of like, hey, it almost forces my hand to have healthy conversation that we know is hard to have. And we know that 50 % of married or cohabitating people aren't having. You talk about conversation, but again, this can't simply be spoken word because spoken word is unenforceable.

47:26It has to be in writing. Correct. Exactly. But I think it has to, you can't have the conversation. You can't put things in writing until you have the conversation, right? So my takeaway or my biggest piece of advice is start with the conversation and then make sure, you know, the most valuable thing you own is your signature. and also there, if you don't have the affordability to do so, there are not for profits out there that where you can get an attorney to legally review anything for you, or you can use the affordable resources. And I'm not sponsored by them, but I'll tell you, LegalZoom is a great affordable option.

48:00There's just no reason today why you should put yourself in a position with a contract without having a professional oversee it. If you don't feel like you're in a position to do that, period. End of story. Yeah. NOLO. I'm not, I'm not sponsored by them, but NOLO, N-O-L-O is also... That's another great one. Yeah, it's another good one. We deserve two sponsorships. I know, right? We should call on them. Yeah, exactly. We want to sponsor our show. And we can negotiate with them because we have leverage because we've saved their money. Exactly. We have a price tag. Nice tie back.

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51:46you mentioned some of the most frequent stories that you get the biggest responses that you get are stories of financial fraud people being scammed people being betrayed yes you know so much of fraud the foundation of it is trust you know you trust a might be a loved one it might be somebody in a business context, our whole society operates on trust. And when that trust is betrayed, that's when fraud and scams emerge. Can you share some other stories you've heard? I could share one I just got the other day, actually. Before I share that one, I also want to say that I think we have learned that betrayal and lies and deceit happens.

52:32I think we've become I'm accustomed to that. Actually so much that I had a FBI negotiator on the podcast. Yes, Chris Voss. And Chris, he says, whenever you want a yes out of someone, right? Ask them a question where the answer is no, but you still get the same results. So like, would you be opposed to getting sushi tonight? Exactly. You know, right. So I think, so with that one, I think we were so trained to say no to things that clearly we know betrayal exists. But I also think when you think about someone who's being cheated on or if you think that your relationship is in disarray, you think there might be cheating or there's an affair.

53:09I don't know about you, but I know a bunch of people that I could call and talk to and vet and they'll understand it. I think when it comes to financial infidelity, we're kind of handcuffed. I think most people are like, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know how do I call an attorney? Do I call the police? Do I call my mom? Do I call my dad? Do I say nothing? So I think that's one of the biggest things. But I just got one recently where this girl told me that she was with her fiance for seven years, seven years, and felt something was off with his money habits. And they were on their way to getting engaged.

53:42And she went through some of the accounts and learned that he had over$250 ,000 of gambling losses. And the only way that she found out was by actually catching him by going through the numbers and calling him out. And now she's in this predicament where she's like, he was honest with me once I called him out and he definitely has a problem and acknowledged it. She's like, but I don't know if I can get married to someone who is lying and like pretty much cheating on me through money the whole time and now is taking ownership. And so that was a tough one because she's about to say I do. And now she found all this out.

54:24Right. So that's, that's a big one. Another one is like, you know, people's spending and what are they spending it on? Some people have hidden accounts and they're using those purchases for things that their significant other wouldn't approve of, more like aligned with infidelity stuff. And we found some statistics out there too that showcase those who commit financial infidelity have a high propensity to commit infidelity. And infidelity is another leading reason for divorce. So a lot of these things connect. And I think the biggest thing with finance, and I said this on the Girls Gotta Eat podcast, is everyone hides all their red flags.

55:04We don't show them. So one thing I always like to tell people is when someone shows you a red flag, give that person a hug. They've done something that most people don't do. Most people are hiding and lying and deceiving. Financial errors can be fixed and they can be fixed, as you know, so quickly. Small adjustments could have a huge, small adjustments with commitment and discipline could have the biggest impact in such a fast forum. So, yeah. Well, you're saying when somebody shows you a red flag, meaning when they volunteer non-flattering information about themselves. For example, if that guy had simply volunteered like, Hey, I need to talk to you.

55:42I think I have a problem with gambling. Yes. Right. Had he just volunteered that. The difference there is so immense. It's, it's taking accountability. It's acknowledging its self-awareness and having the vulnerability to talk about it. And those things could be fixed. So yeah, that's a perfect example. If someone tells you like, you know, you start to have these conversations, they have terrible credit or their income's not where they want to be or their annual spend is too high or they haven't saved anything for retirement or they have a huge debt burden. Like the fact they're willing to talk about these things is so important.

56:15Embrace it and know so many solutions can be put in place with super fast results. Right. Should couples entirely co-mingle their finances or should there be a yours, mine and ours? Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it's an, it's an, it's another tough one because everyone's situation is so unique. I have a theory that it should be based on what the earnings look like. And I think if you have two couples that earn within 15 to 20 % of one another, You should determine how much you want to contribute to a fund. And in that fund, it should be a joint account. And then you guys should contribute equally to that account and then use it for things that you think make sense.

56:56I think if there's a big income disparity, but you're both working, you can do the same thing and then just pro rata what you're putting in based on the earning level and use that money towards functions or food or bills or whatever. So I'm a huge believer in the joint account. and then I think it's just how you contribute, how you use it and then figuring out what makes most sense for you. But I think everyone should have individual accounts and a joint account. Why is that? So one of the things I think is that having ownership of your money come in and what you're earning and how you're spending is so important, but also having the ability to contribute to the relationship based on how you decide with your partner, it makes sense.

57:38I think that's why it's really good to have individual and joint accounts. And I think at the end of the day, whether in a relationship or not, you have to be held responsible for what you do and how you do it with your money. And that's why I think having individual accounts is great. But I also think going over your net worth either four times a year or biannually is a really good practice to do with your significant other. I think the beauty of net worth is that it captures everything, every account, spending, earning, all the things. And I think if you have your own individual accounts and then you have a joint account, so you're taking individual ownership of what you want to do and how you want to do it, how you want to spend your money, but you're still being open and transparent about it, you can capture that in your net worth with your partner.

58:18And ideally, especially as two working individuals, you want that net worth to be increasing. There's going to be material outlying circumstances, but in general, overall, your net worth should be increasing. So getting a barometer for that four times or two times a year to capture all accounts with your significant another also will still provide visibility while operating independently and jointly. If you have both individual and joint accounts, should you view your net worth through a joint lens or should you have different net worths? Should you have like your, each of you have an individual net worth and then you also have some type of a joint net worth?

58:59I think looking at three numbers is really important. I think looking at each person's individual and then, So that's obviously two. And then the overall units net worth. I think it gives you a good barometer of individually what you're doing is working and how you're growing. And I think it then shows as a couple how you guys are growing as a unit. So I think looking at each individual's and then the overall net worth of the couple is just it is such a healthy exercise that literally will take one hour. You think about all the time you throw away doing certain things. one hour and you both have complete visibility without blame or shame, just for the purpose of being constructive for your overall financial health and wealth.

59:45You can see what's going on, where it's going on and how it's impacting the family. Think about how many conversations and arguments could be avoided if that transparency was there. Yeah. Right. Well, thank you for spending this time with us. Where can people find you if they'd like to hear more of you? Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This was fun. My book is Talk Money to Me. You can get it on Amazon, Target, or Barnes & Noble. It's funny because it hit the bestseller list in love and romance and in finance. So there's a little something for everyone there. And then my podcast is called Trading Secrets.

1:00:19We really focus on financial transparency. So people that you look up to, follow, or learn from, what we get into is where they make money, how much they made, where they lost money, so that through those dollar amounts, we could learn lessons from those that we can get into. we praise and hopefully take some of those takeaways into our life. And then my handle on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, whatever, X, whatever you call it now is all Jason underscore Tartik. So that's a little bit about me and where I'm at. Oh, fantastic. Yes. Well, thank you again for spending this time with us. Thank you for having me.

1:00:49I appreciate it. This was fun. Thank you, Jason. What are three key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Key takeaway number one, conversations around money can be incredibly emotionally charged. People often feel judged or shamed or embarrassed. And so the first step in having a healthy conversation around money is to create a space where both partners feel comfortable. In this first key takeaway, Jason shares pointers around precisely how to do that. The biggest thing to say is do not shame, do not blame, do not weaponize, right? We don't want to do that when it comes to money because it's already hard to talk about it.

1:01:31So when people do share things like their debt to income ratio, when they do share things like their net worth or their earnings or their annual spend or their credit score, we first want to go in with, thank you for even sharing that with me, right? Thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for being honest with me about that. And then to say that your net worth or your credit score or your debt to income ratio or your debt burden, that's not your self-worth, right? That's just a history of patterns, kind of like your dating history, kind of like what's made you you. It's just a history of patterns of what have happened until this point.

1:02:04And then, of course, I think with finance, what you can control is faster than almost anything so that the future is in a better place. That is key takeaway number one. Key takeaway number two, understanding your patterns and understanding the why, the motivation behind some of your past financial behaviors can shed insight into your spending habits. Because sometimes spending is a form of self-medication. Sometimes spending is not that you want that item itself. It's that you want the feeling that that item gives you. and the reason that you want that feeling that that item gives you is because you feel deficient in obtaining that feeling in other areas of your life.

1:02:48That doesn't mean you are deficient. It simply means that that is an emotional need that is not being served. So in this second key takeaway, Jason talks about how developing that deeper self-awareness can help you understand your own spending behaviors and it can help you understand your partner's spending behaviors. We know that therapy connects to financial behaviors. We know that when people are in pain, there's a few things that they'll do. One thing they'll do is medicate. Medicate, you think about taking a pill or something, but medicating could be a lot of things. Medicating could actually be you just work out and exercise more.

1:03:24It's a form of numbing. But I think a lot of people actually will experience pain in their life or financially, and then they will go to how they channel that and they'll medicate through numbing, through spending, through self-sabotage with their money, etc. So the only people that can truly answer this are the people listening, being self-aware of exactly what they're doing with their money and understanding their behaviors. And so that is the second key takeaway. Finally, key takeaway number three. When couples are co-mingling their finances, there's always the question of how should this co-mingling take place?

1:04:00To what extent should each person have some degree of independence or autonomy and to what extent are we in it together as a team? In this third and final key takeaway, Jason shares some strategies around how a couple can merge their money. I have a theory that it should be based on what the earnings look like. And I think if you have two couples that earn within 15 to 20 % of one another, you should determine how much you want to contribute to a fund. And in that fund, it should be a joint account. And then you guys should contribute equally to that account and then use it for things that you think make sense.

1:04:38I think if there's a big income disparity, but you're both working, you can do the same thing and then just pro rata what you're putting in based on the earning level and use that money towards functions or food or bills or whatever. So I'm a huge believer in the joint account. And then I think it's just how you contribute, how you use it, and then figuring out what makes most sense for you. But I think everyone should have individual accounts and a joint account. Having ownership of your money come in and what you're earning and how you're spending is so important, but also having the ability to contribute to the relationship based on how you decide whether your partner makes sense.

1:05:16I think that's why it's really good to have individual and joint accounts. And I think at the end of the day, whether in a relationship or not, you have to be held responsible for what you do and how you do it with your money. And that's why I think having individual accounts is great. Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with Jason Tartik, an MBA banker who rose to fame on The Bachelorette and has now leveraged that fame to draw attention to the intersection between relationships and money and how to navigate that well, wisely. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please do three things.

1:05:53First, share it with a friend or a family member. That's the single most important thing you can do to spread the message of great financial health. Second, follow us on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, in your favorite podcast playing app. Follow us in all of the above. We deeply appreciate it. And in any podcast playing app like Spotify or Apple Podcasts, you can leave us up to a five-star review. Please do so. it enormously helps us as we book other amazing guests. Finally, subscribe to our newsletter, which you can access by going to affordanything.com slash newsletter. And if you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the YouTube channel and hit the little bell for notifications about future episodes.

1:06:37We have some great episodes coming up, so make sure that you're following us on all of the above platforms, as well as subscribed to our newsletter. Thank you so much for tuning in. My name is Paula Pant. This is the Afford Anything podcast, and I will meet you in the next episode.