Buy the Damn Guac, with Jamila Souffrant

24:22You know, people, we talk about the why, like, why are you doing what you're doing? Like for me, my why and my why not are my kids. And each time that I got pregnant or we expanded our family, it pushed me further and gave me intensity to reach this goal. So I was commuting from Brooklyn to New Jersey and, you know, it was an hour in my 20s. So I was fine with that because, you know, I didn't have much to do anyway after work. So if it took me an hour to get home, fine. Then traffic patterns change and got married and we started a family. And so now I'm thinking, I don't want it to take now an hour and a half to get home where I'm going to get home at seven, eight o 'clock every night.

25:00And then when am I going to see my kids or husband? So for me, I was so motivated to be able to quit my job. And I set myself on a seven-year timeline when I found out about the FIRE movement. That was my motivation then to leave my job and start Journey to Launch eventually and do all these things. But, you know, my motivation now is still that it's not as intense because I've reached a place of comfort, which, by the way, you know, it's like a gift and a curse. Like having that commute and job I didn't love put a fire in me where I was much more intense. And I, you know, I was making much more external progress.

25:38Now I'm a bit more comfortable and it's not a bad thing, but, you know, I've slowed up a bit. Right. But I'm still motivated on my journey. I still want to reach financial independence because while I love doing what I do, I would love to, if someone called me or, you know, I had a podcast to put out and I really don't feel like doing it, still be an integrity, not just like bail on people. But to say, you know what, I just, it's just not feeling it right now. I didn't want to take a few months off. And I could do that now, but I mean, really do it from a place of I never really have to work again.

26:08So that's what motivates me is thinking about staying true to what I see as financial independence, even though I do have freedom now and flexibility, to know that I would love complete freedom from anything and anyone and feeling obligated to make any money. When you set that seven-year goal, right, you decided you didn't want to have that hour and a half long commute. And so you set a seven-year goal. What did you do? What was the first thing that you did in order to put yourself on the path to that goal? What happened during those seven years? Yeah, so I explained the beginning part of my journey.

26:45I was an observer of and consumer of content to learn the strategies. this is where my commute became my oh educational yeah I really believe everything that we've done and the things that we viewed as obstacles or annoyances has really become stepping stones to where we get to as the next level right because if it weren't for my commute and strenuous job and all this I wouldn't have been motivated as much to seek out financial independence and if it weren't for my long commute I wouldn't have had all the time to listen to all the podcasts that I used to listen to on one and a half speed. Your podcast was one of them, by the way, learning and listening and immersing myself in this world.

27:28And so that's where the mindset came in for me. Like I already had a can do mindset based on seeing what my mom was able to do, but it really the immersing myself in this world and listening to various people with various starting points and incomes and backgrounds say to myself, you know what, this teacher just, you know, has a million dollar portfolio. Why can't I do that? You know, I make good income. My husband makes good income. What's the, we can do better. And so a big part of the beginning, when I first heard about financial independence was just observing. And then I think like a lot of people do, you know, you want to like put your, you want to like raise your hand and say something you want to have a conversation or add to the conversation, which is where journey to launch came in.

28:13And so I started as a blog and then did the podcast. And it was at that point, I wanted to share what I was doing. I was applying the things I was learning. So wow, my husband as a teacher, he can invest in two pre-tax retirement accounts, a 457 and a 403B. Let's do that. I can max out my retirement account. Let's do that. Backdoor Roth IRAs, you know, we can't directly contribute, but we can do that. And so I was learning all these cool things that I never knew before and sharing that. And that's in that two-year period when we were really intense, we were able to save and invest$169 ,000, paid off our consumer debt and made like significant progress.

28:54Then getting pregnant with my third, starting Journey to Launch by then maybe was, you know, a couple of years in, but realized that there was an opportunity to pursue financial independence in a different way. Before I thought I had to work in this job and, you know, it's guaranteed income, quote, and just save and invest half of it and just bear through it. It's only like, I think at that point, maybe five years left, like you can do it. Right. And I was like, no, I cannot. I can't. At this point, I knew I was going to have three kids. This commute, journey to launch on the side, which was doing well.

29:28It wasn't making money, but it was growing in the sense of people finding me and connecting. And then this job that was pretty intense. Right. And so I came to the decision that I need to set myself up to where I can quit this job and pursue financial independence in a way where if it takes longer, that's okay, because I've benefited from the freedom that financial independence would give me. Meaning I can create my own schedule. I can spend more time with my kids or be there for pickup and drop off. We don't have to have two parents who have to go outside the home to work, even though I'm still working.

30:04but it makes it so much easier for everything that we were doing. And so my idea of how I would reach financial independence changed because it was no longer about this reaching it as fast as possible. It was about how do I enjoy it and make it sustainable? And if it takes me longer, if the business doesn't do well, that's fine. But also, what if it's faster? Because the business does so well. Right. So it sounds to me as though you made the conscious decision to stay in that fourth stage, the stage of work flexibility for a longer period of time, rather than just like toughing it out in that previous stage so that you could hopscotch over to work optionality.

30:45Right. And also, if we had a lower guac level lifestyle, we would be financially independent. If we had a one or two or desire to do that. Right. We don't. Right. You know, we're leaning actually more into spending money. And especially, you know, my kids are nine, seven and five. We live in New York City. And my husband, like he is great, but he's not as he's not he's not sitting around doing budgets with me or into it as much. Right. Right. It's like if you had two partners that were like, yeah, I'm not even into it as much in terms of like ticking and tying all the numbers. You know, my perspective has changed so much.

31:21So for me, if we had a lower guac level lifestyle or if we were willing to make changes like move to somewhere low cost, we'd reach our financial independence goals. but I don't want to do that. He doesn't want to do that. And we're enjoying the way our life looks now. So I think that's also a big part of it too.

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33:54We've talked quite a bit about income and expenses, but when it comes to assets and liabilities, how should a person think through that? I mean, first, should the focus be on paying off liabilities or accumulating assets when there's a trade-off between the two? Yes. So I am not one of those people who believes you should be completely out of debt before you invest. I think just the way your investments compound, you need the time. And so you might not be able to do as much if you're in debt because I still recommend aggressively getting out of debt as fast as possible, of course, along whatever timeline you've set, but you should be investing.

34:32When I talk to people who listen to my stuff or our followers, they say, okay, I'm more in like the cadet stage. I have a lot of debt. This has been an issue for me. And so what do I do? Should I invest still? Or, you know, it might take me two years, but then I have to really live at a guac level one or two versus if I make it take longer. For most people, debt, while they can manage it, like they think they can manage it and just keep it, like why not, is that once you get out of that stage, you have so much more flexibility and you can direct your income where to go. And that feels good. I talk about like tethers, like we have all these financial tethers on if we're keeping in theme with my brand, like with your rocket that's launching.

35:17and you want your rocket to be light as possible. And you want to be able to be flexible as possible in case your mind changes about something. So let's just say you're listening and all of a sudden you don't like your job. Maybe it's a boss or coworkers or your mind changes about something. If you're able to become financially flexible and you got rid of debt and it's no longer necessarily an issue for you, you can make quicker decisions or bigger decisions versus I have this debt that I'm obligated to pay or these fixed expenses that are so huge. And so I can't quit this job. Like I have to work in it for a few more years.

35:54So I just like to tell people to get ahead of that. Like before you come up where your back is against the wall and you have to make a decision, start to manage and think about what you want your debt payoff journey to look like. Right. And you talked about fixed expenses. So let's go into that because there's a distinction between fixed versus variable expenses, and it often gets conflated with mandatory versus discretionary spending. So much of the time in personal finance conversations, I hear people use fixed expenses and mandatory expenses interchangeably, but in fact, they're actually quite different.

36:33Yeah. I mean, you can have fixed and mandatory and fixed and non-mandatory expenses. is like, it's really important to take a good look at your overall finances, right? And like, look at the categories. And so, you know, the assessment when people are starting their journey is like, okay, so how much am I spending, right? That's the basis of getting your budget together and writing the categories out. And of course, we have the mandatory things that are usually fixed that we have to pay like rent or mortgage. And then we, you know, we go down the line, and we write them all out. And so I know typically we'll say in the personal finance space, you know, look at the non, the discretionary stuff and see what you can cut out because, you know, it's more important to focus on the mandatory.

37:14But also like some of your mandatory fixed expenses can also be reduced. Right. Maybe not initially right away, but, and maybe it takes more effort, like, you know, telling someone just sell your home or move is not as easy of a decision to make. Right. Like some people can make those choices. I have a friend, she can change jobs, move cities She's like that. And so she's been able to do a lot of amazing things with her finances because of that. Someone like me, despite having this can-do attitude, I really am slow to make changes like that. That's why I stayed at my job so long. Even despite the commute, I love routine.

37:47I like being comfortable. Right. And so looking at expenses in that way is really breaking down just because something is fixed doesn't mean it can't be reduced or changed. But you also have to be realistic with your your ability to make big changes like that. Right, right. And that almost reminds me of a different use of the term fixed, which is a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. Yeah, yeah. I think, again, the mindset and habits, but the mindset, I think, is the key piece here to this entire conversation, to the ability to reach financial independence. Because if you don't believe that you can, then why would you even start?

38:27You have to have some sort of inkling or belief in yourself that something else can be possible. So with the fix and growth mindset, you know, and I see it definitely it's in my face every day having kids and they're now playing sports and seeing, you know, the difference in their behavior or attitude on whether it's on the court or what their abilities are. If they think they can't do something versus they think they can. I'm like, okay, how do I instill what the mindset that I, my mom was able to give me and I developed, how can I give that to my children? You know, where they don't take on their failures as a part of their armor.

39:04You know, it's just an event that happened that they can learn from, or how can they look at their success or their hard work as the carrot, not necessarily the, the end result. My kids, you know, they're taking tests and doing all this stuff now. And my son, he was having a hard time studying. So he was giving up. He kind of had a bad attitude about it. And so, you know, I told him, you know, let's keep going because you do have a test on this. And then he started to get excited and I was ready to be done. And he was like, let's keep going. And he was he was excited to study. And I said, there it is.

39:40I was like, that's what I want. I don't actually care if you don't do well on this test, because I know that you you're putting in the work to get better. You're putting in the effort. And I think that's in general with our journeys is that we don't always know what the end will look like. Things are going to happen, put us maybe back journey or stages or off course, but we can mark our effort. And so having a growth mindset to help prepare ourselves for what we can not always prepare ourselves for is essential to staying on the journey. Hmm. What can a person do if they recognize that they want to to adopt a mindset that's more conducive to success, but they know that their natural tendency is to fall into these modalities of thinking that are a little, you know, eeyore?

40:32Yeah. Yeah. Look at your life currently and what you've been able to accomplish. Not necessarily don't compare it against, you know, someone else. And you're like, well, that's not an accomplishment. But if you're listening to this or watching this, you accomplish something. Right. And so look for evidence of you succeeding at something through effort. Most people have succeeded from childhood to doing something as an adult, right? Like there are things my kids cannot do now that I know they will be able to do as an adult. I also say, do some low stakes things to help boost your, your confidence in yourself.

41:11So for me, one of the things that I did was I, you know, I was taking gym classes and I usually didn't like go into the step class because I thought the steps just looked too complicated. And I was like, oh, you know, I'm just going to look too silly. And I was like, you know what? Let me just try it. And the first day, like I could not like get it. Yeah. But I said to myself, okay, a win is just showing back up and not feeling too embarrassed that you can't do this. Like who cares? And after a few weeks, I was getting some of the steps that in the beginning I had no clue how to do. And it just was reinforcement that here's something low stakes that you do.

41:45And I think as adults, you know, kids go through it every day. They're trying, they're learning something new. I think as adults, we get into routines and we stop that. So we come against a challenge. It's easier to just to just not do it versus putting ourselves in positions where we are challenging ourselves, making it low stakes and making it almost like, you know, something you can achieve, something simple that you can go through and then give yourself credit for to boost your mindset. You know, in addition to mindset, the two force multipliers, one is mindset, the other is habits. What kind of habits would a person ideally be building?

42:21There are the things we do every day that we don't know or don't consider as habits just because it's so routine. You know, brushing our teeth, it's a habit. So when it comes to our money, right, there are things that depending on your journey or stage, you may have to develop as habits, maybe more than someone further along. So, for example, if you are in the explorer or cadet stage, you very well need to have a habit of budgeting because you want to be able to direct your money to get you out of these stages so that you can have more flexibility and options in your life at the later stages. And so a budget for people is a habit, whether it is, you know, pen and paper or Google Sheets or an app, I think is extremely important.

43:05And it's not just enough to have a budget, right? It's to create a habit around your budget. So it's not enough to create it that one time, but it's what is your habit on going back and reconciling and seeing if you did what you said you do and helping it inform you to make decisions moving forward. Right. And so I know people sometimes struggle with that habit. Like, OK, I made my budget, but I haven't been following it. So how do you check in and make the habit of checking your budget or having that conversation with your partner in game or sticking to a budget, you know, automating things. So the good thing about money is a lot of things now can be automated.

43:38So, you know, this habit of saving and investing. I know someone who said they actually like the feeling of clicking and doing it manually. And, you know, it makes them feel really good. And I was like, okay, that's, that's great as long as you keep doing it. But you can automate the habit of directly sending that money into your investment account or to your saving account where you don't have to think about that habit as much. Right. So, you know, I'd say those are like the very important ones, the basics for people, the budgeting habit and then reconciling the budget and sticking to it and then the saving and investing habit.

44:12Right. Are there any habits that you think are overrated? I know I'm going to seem like I'm contradicting myself because budgeting, while very important, like I said, I think depending on your personality type, your journey or stage, because you might need a bit more guardrails in place to help you so that you can move forward. my personality, right? In the beginning, because I wanted to leave my job and I was so intense, I checked my budget every day. It's very important because I was like, I need all this, I need this money so I can quit. Today, the commander Jamila versus the cadet Jamila is different about a budget.

44:52I feel fine about that. I don't tick and tie every number. I don't want to sit down and look at a budget every day. And so for me personally, the budget is overrated, but that is a individual decision based on my preference. And because I am not so far along in my journey, because you can be far along in your journey and fall off because you don't have certain things in place. But because I've set up another system or a system that works, we're still hitting our investing goals and we're still able to live the life we want to live. And so that's a signal for me that we're doing okay. And so for a lot of people, I actually think, I hope that that gives some light at the end of the tunnel because not everyone likes to budget.

45:38And so when they think about having to start this journey and the first thing they have to do is budget and tick and tie numbers, they're like, I don't want to do that. And I'm here to say you don't have to do it forever. You know, and some people love it. I have people who make a lot of money and are financially independent and they still tick and tie every number, but they get joy out of that. Right. So that's where your personality and what you need that would depend on that. But it's really something that you can choose to almost just like a tool. You learned it. You know how to do it. But you can choose if you want to apply it to your finances and to your journey at a certain point.

46:11Right. So it sounds to me as though when you're in the earlier stages of financial freedom, when you're in the explorer stage or the cadet stage, that's a time when perhaps it's necessary. And when you're in the later stages, when you're already work flexible or work optional, at that point, it becomes budget optional as well. Yeah. More things become optional. But yeah. Nice. Now, a big theme of what we've been talking about is tying together your financial goals with your life goals. And I know you took inspiration from a man by the name of George Kinder, who asked three very critical questions when it comes to clarifying those life goals.

46:51Can you describe that? Yes. The questions that George Kinder asks people to think about are and helps them see like how far off of their life goals are they living? taking money out of the equation is the first question is ask yourself, if you did have all the money and financial security you wanted, what would you be doing? Like what would be different about your life? Like hypothetically, if money was not, if you had unlimited money. Yes. That's a fun exercise. It is very fun. It's like the world is your oyster. All the guacamole. Yes, exactly. And then the second question is like, say you went to the doctor and you only had five to 10 years left to live, how, what would you differently?

47:33And so even the first question talks more about your lifestyle. Like what do you want your, like, because it's asking you, what do you want your life to look like without the, the barrier of not having money? And so the second question now gives you more of a time constraint of you only have five or 10 years left to live. What would you do differently? Like in your lifestyle. And then the third question is if you went to the doctor and they said you only had, I think it was 24 hours left to live. What would you have regretted that you didn't do? Or what would you want to do? But really, it's the regrets.

48:03What did you wish you did? And I think thinking about it in that way really brings to a head, I think, a conflict that a lot of us have is that we need to work or at least have money to pay for our basic necessities and also to fund a life that we love and we enjoy. And so what does that look like and what have we not been doing, right? What's that internal dream that we may have let die out or pushed aside because we need to be practical and we have a mortgage and kids now. Right. For anyone going through that exercise, it gives them some pause to see, okay, so now that I'm on my journey intentionally, what can I pull from those answers to have a more complete or full life?

48:50Right. Right. With the second and third question, which are time limited, in those questions, is money hypothetically also limited? Are you living within your current means? Yeah, I think so. I think that's the way he phrased it. And I'm sure one of your listeners will correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that's also from what I remember in the book and the reference. It's like money, I think for the 24 hour, you didn't have like, I don't think it was even brought up, which is interesting because it shows you like how little money matters at the end or when you have the time. Right. It also shows you why time is the most valuable resource.

49:25Right. Because, you know, money, they print money. Yeah, exactly. But time, you don't you don't get that back. Yeah. Yeah. Based on as people go through and reflect on the way that they would answer those questions, you know, what would you do with unlimited money? What would you do with highly limited time? Right? Those are fundamentally those questions. As people go through and reflect on those, they then come up with a list of values of priorities and those values and priorities get translated into goals. Some of these I know you characterize as lead domino goals and the other ones are gap goals.

50:03Can you explain the difference between the two? So this ties back to the FI formula that we talked about earlier, where, you know, you have your income minus your expenses equals this gap. So there should be something left over. And I do differentiate between the mandatory and discretionary expenses in this formula so that you can you can really optimize the gap. and then choose what you do with the money left over. So you can choose to now look at your financial goals of buying assets or building up assets and then reducing liabilities and then discretionary expenses. So when we're thinking about our financial goals, they typically fall into the categories of we want to pay down debt, we want to save for something we want to do like a trip and then we want to buy assets or invest.

50:54And so I consider those the gap goals, meaning they happen like in the gap in the formula. But those goals are possible because of the domino lead goals, which are your income goals and expense goals. So the other goals don't really happen unless you work on your income and or expenses. How else will you get the money to accomplish those other goals that the gap goals? Right. And so you can have, you know, just an income goal. but just having an income goal without tying it to a gap goal can put you on a cycle where you don't know your enough point because at this point you're just you want to earn money just for the sake of earning money but what what are you earning money for are you earning it because you want to buy a nice car or are you earning more because you want to pay down this debt faster or you want to have x amount in your investment accounts by you know at the end of a couple years Right.

51:47And so knowing kind of what the gap goal is and how it ties back to the domino goal, that lead goal that helps make all the goals possible also helps you figure out what that enough point is. Right. Right. So income and expenses are those lead dominoes. Yeah. And then the the gap goals are really the why. They kind of answer the question of, all right, what am I making money for or what am I cutting back? Why am I cutting back? Right. Because when you're not thinking about it in this way or consciously, you just you may be working harder than you need to. Right. Or putting more effort than necessary, because really, if you took a full picture and look at everything, it's like you're actually not that far off from your goals.

52:35But you just haven't set this intention and understood what was enough for you. And then, you know, you're doing too much now. Speaking of unlimited money and highly limited time, we are coming to the end of our time. Are there any things that you want to emphasize, any concepts that I haven't asked about? What would you like to leave this community with? Yeah, you know, I want to share just an anecdote or experiment that I referenced in the book, because I thought it was so powerful when I first heard it. And I thought it really, I hope, gives some motivation and inspiration to someone listening who kind of feels like they should be further along or doing something, things should be working faster for them.

53:17So there was this biosphere experiment where in a biodome, they recreated the environment. And basically it was just trees and bushes and just all these things. It was like the largest biosphere. I forgot what state it's in. But in the biosphere experiment, the biodome, they had an issue with the trees because in this biodome, there's no wind. So the trees grew and they grew fast. They never grew to maturity. They always fell over because what helps trees be strong is stress wood. Stress wood is developed through wind. And because the trees never experienced wind, they grew faster, but they also died or fell over before they reached their full potential.

54:03And so when I first heard that, I'm like, that is so like the journey of all of us where we want things to be faster and don't understand why things are happening and like this is not working out. but whatever is making you grow slower is often making you grow stronger and ensuring that you reach your full potential. So I just want to leave people with that hopefully motivating fact or at least story. Right. The headwinds make you grow stronger. That makes total sense to me. I grow plants indoors. You know, like my apartment is just full of plants. Oh, you need to come teach me because all my plants, like they're dying.

54:40Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So, but one of the things that I do is if I can see that a plant is a little bit weak, I will point a fan at it. And I'll just, you know, I'll point a fan at a plant to, to strengthen it. Right. Because I know that that little bit of, of wind is going to help it grow strong. So, you know, that, that absolutely makes sense. A hurricane will blow it over, but the right amount of wind resistance, the right amount of headwinds will actually make it grow much stronger than it otherwise would have. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that. Well, thank you for spending this time with us.

55:20Where can people find you and where can they find your book? Yeah. So my book, Your Journey to Financial Freedom, A Step-by-Step Guide to Achieving Wealth and Happiness. It is available everywhere right now, hopefully, when you're listening to this and you can go to yourjourneytofinancialfreedom.com to see all the places you can buy it. I have a free course that I'm giving out for everyone who buys a hard copy, but you can get it on Amazon, bookshop.org to support your local bookstores, Barnes & Noble's Target everywhere. And then you can follow me at Journey to Launch. I'm there on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, even TikTok, although I'm not there as much, but, um, and say hi.

55:59Nice. Nice. Fantastic. Great. Well, thank you. Thank you. I do want to say, Paula, thank you for being also a light for me. When I first started my journey, you were one of the voices that stood out and I saw what was possible by listening and following your work. So it's a pleasure to be sitting here with you today. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Jamila. What are three key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Number one, you know that age old debate of whether it's better to pay off debt versus invest? It's true that the weight of debt can feel crushing. And many people, for emotional reasons, want to get rid of their debt right away.

56:39They want it eradicated. Jamila takes a position on this debate. She is opposed to rushing to pay off your debt. And she explains why. I am not one of those people who believes you should be completely out of debt before you invest. I think just the way your investments compound, you need the time. And so you might not be able to do as much if you're in debt, because I still recommend aggressively getting out of debt as fast as possible. Of course, along whatever timeline you've set, but you should be investing. So to be clear, Jamila does recommend aggressively paying off your debt, but she doesn't believe that you need to be debt free in order to invest.

57:23And so in that age old debate of should I pay off debt versus invest, you don't necessarily need to pay off your debt as a precursor to investing. Key takeaway number two. Many of us want to reach financial independence or reach financial freedom, but we feel stuck. And sometimes this can be attributed to mindset. Jamila talks about the importance of having a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed mindset and why this is absolutely critical as a building block in your journey towards building wealth. She also shares a mental process that can help you develop a growth mindset. The mindset, I think, is the key piece here to this entire conversation, to the ability to reach financial independence.

58:12Because if you don't believe that you can, then why would you even start? You have to have some sort of inkling or belief in yourself that something else can be possible. She also recommends looking back at your life for evidence of times that you've grown, times that you've succeeded, times that you've done well. That evidence can help anchor the mindset that you want to develop. Look at your life currently and what you've been able to accomplish. Don't compare it against someone else and you're like, well, that's not an accomplishment. But if you're listening to this or watching this, you accomplished something, right?

58:57And so look for evidence of you succeeding at something through effort. So that is the second key takeaway. Finally, key takeaway number three is a three-parter. There are three questions that Jamila recommends you ask yourself if you want to decide to figure out if you are on the right path in your life. The first question is ask yourself, if you did have all the money and financial security you wanted, what would you be doing? Then the second question is, like, say you went to the doctor and you only had five to 10 years left to live. How what would you differently? And then the third question is, if you went to the doctor and they said you only had, I think it was 24 hours left to live, what would you have regretted that you didn't do?

59:47Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with Jamila Soufrant. a certified financial education instructor, the host of the Journey to Launch podcast, and the author of a great book called Your Journey to Financial Freedom. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jamila. Please share your feedback, your comments, your questions, what resonated with you. Share it with this community. There are a number of ways that you can do that. if you're listening on Spotify, there's a section on Spotify where you can record what you thought of each specific episode. So open up Spotify and leave a comment on this episode in Spotify to talk about what you thought of it.

1:00:32If you're not on Spotify, or if you are and you want more ways to connect with the community, go to affordanything.com slash community. This is our community. It lives on a platform called Mighty Networks, which is outside of all other social media. It's not a Facebook group. It's not, you know, you're not going to get distracted by social media. It's a community that lives on its own where you can connect with other like-minded people who are in similar situations. Maybe you want to talk to people about New Year's goals or about getting out of debt or about retirement or about sending your kids to college or sending yourself to college.

1:01:07Whatever it is that you want to discuss, there are people in this community who are just like you, who are going through the same types of things that you're going through. And it's just a great place for support. Absolutely free. AffordAnything.com slash community. Thank you so much for tuning in. My name is Paula Pant. This is the Afford Anything podcast, and I'll catch you in the next episode.