Mrs. Dow Jones: Your Childhood Is Running Your Bank Account

26:07And you're taking like a six-figure risk when you're hiring a full-time employee. You're like, I'm going to spend six figures for one year of this person's time in the hopes that this might pay off, but it might not. That's tremendously frightening, particularly for someone who came from a scarcity mindset. We all have the same story at the end of the day, which is like we are these little kids who are just carrying these same money beliefs from when we were children. And then we have to find a way to unlearn them and grow wealth on our own if we want to have financial freedom. Right. Exactly.

26:39So what you've done. Good for you. But anyways, in Ibiza, the first step is identify. So you're right on track. You found your money memory. You figured out exactly how it showed up in your life. And now you've been able to unpack that and hopefully are making changes to live differently. Right, right. And there's some stat you have about how, what is it, 70 or 80 percent of people say that their biggest money memory that they have, like, really comes from their parents. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, it's all from your parents. It's all from childhood. But what's so weird is, like, in most households, it's really not talked about.

27:13Actually, a lot of people who become financial experts, I feel like, are in those situations where they are at a young age having to take control of the finances in a house. Maybe you're in a first-generation household where you see your parents being taken advantage of in the system, which happens so much because it can be really hard for people who move to America to feel comfortable with credit and things like that. It seems like they almost are these 10-year-old future millionaires where they know to hustle all the money at the lemonade stand and put it into the stock market. But I don't think that you need to be someone who had that sort of childhood or upbringing to be able to take control of your financial life.

27:54Right. Whatever your childhood story is, there are healthy things you learned and there are unhealthy things you learned. And as an adult, your responsibility is to unlearn the unhealthy things. 100%. Yeah. And you're so capable of doing it. You know, I look at financial wellness is like the third pillar of health that we don't talk about. Like we have physical fitness, we have mental fitness. And I think financial fitness is so important too. But it's like, you know, we people it's so normalized, like have trainers or go to the gym or go to a workout class or a lot of people have therapists or they're reading self-help books or they're listening to self-help podcasts, which is why your podcast is so great.

28:29But in the financial realm, it's not as like encouraged. You're either you feel like you have to be a certain kind of person to be interested in it. And otherwise you just sort of ignore it. But when you do that, it prevents you from living a 360 degree, like fully whole life. Yeah. Well, that's absolutely true. And it goes back to you phrased something really well. I'm trying to remember the exact wording, but it's like money. Actually, you know what? I'm going to look at it. I love it. The one about control money. If you don't control your money, it controls you. If you don't control your money, you control your life.

29:01And that's why I say like, yes, like I come from this privileged upbringing, but it's like the core feeling is the same for everyone. If you're not in control of your finances and someone and like you have to look outside of yourself to live the life that you want, then yeah, you're just like a little baby. You know, you're not in control of your life. You're not in control of your choices and it keeps you feeling really small and prevents you from being the best version of yourself. Right. Like I would rather live smaller, but live on my own, which I didn't know this in my 20s. I would have probably been so much happier had I not been like, okay, fine, I'll just put the Momofuku or my parents card or whatever, and then dealing with that shame.

29:36And then like, I have to like go through that whole cycle with my mom, which was like something that had been repeated through my life, you know, and like without ever solution versus just like we could have gone to a different restaurant, you know what I mean? Like that probably would have been made me feel so much better. Right. Understanding money etiquette, understanding how to communicate about money and feeling comfortable putting your goals first outside of, you know, spending money to look like you have money. Because I think so many purchases and experiences that we do, that we go for are just driven by that.

30:07We've talked about your early childhood experiences with money inside of your family, particularly from your parents. But there's also the social component of messages that we learn about money from broader society. A hundred percent. Like from, you mentioned celebrity culture earlier. Can you talk about that both positive and negative messaging? Well, I - Social messaging. Yes. Well, I mean, this is like my favorite topic, Paula, because you know that I'm obsessed with celebrities and money. I feel like everyone is obsessed with pop culture, at least I am. Like, I love to read like the Daily Mail and things like that.

30:43But when I first started, especially, I felt like people were not really that interested in learning about their personal finances because we all have that resistance. And from, you know, maybe there is that childhood memory and then we're trying to avoid at all costs. So it is a really good way in is by using celebrity. But yeah, I think that right now we're in this crazy time because when I was growing up, there was a show on VH1 or if it was MTV called The Fabulous Life Of. Do you remember that? No, no. Oh my gosh. And there was this British narrator and they would take you behind the scenes of how celebrities were spending money.

31:17And it would be like, Jay-Z and Beyonce are on this yacht for a week for$500 ,000. And then it would like show you throughout the yacht. And it was like the best 30 minutes of television. I would like ate it up. It was so fun. Oh, that's cool. But it also created this unrealistic expectation that that's what we should all like aspire to. Or if we don't have that, then like we are not succeeding. And I think we see that now at a microcosm online with influencers where all they present is like a positive version of their lives. and then they're telling you buy these products and you can get closer to that.

31:59And then you add on top of it that the year 2026 finance is so frictionless. Like I'm looking, there's a square right there. I think if I want to have like a candy, I could pay. You can just have the candy. Thank you, thank you. Wow, but how'd you know? That was secretly what I was asking for. But everything is so, you just use Apple Pay like Apple be paying. It could be 2 a.m. and you could buy a$3 ,000 couch like with your eyes half open, you know. And I think also the world has become so much more stressful, too. I mean, just on paper, like the facts are the data is there. It's such a hard time economically.

32:36But then also we're exposed to so much more media about these realities. Like the 24-hour news cycle really does take a toll. And so I think that so much of spending, too, is like just emotional regulation. Right. Something that helps me so much is like, did I take a walk? Did I do my meditation today? Like, when was the last time I took a breath that I was noticing? Just like calming down a little bit because otherwise it's so easy to get into that just impulsive spending, frictionless spending sort of cycle. Right. And we live in a society where emotional regulation through consumer spending is normalized.

33:15So normalized. So it's the - Yeah, the treat yourself culture. And it's like it really does form your opinion of money. Like it's like, you know, I grew up in the sex in the city generation. It's like obviously Carrie was the it girl of that. So we're seeing a woman who like bought shoes instead of buying a house and has no idea about her finances. And then Miranda, the boring one, is the one who buys a house, you know. Or in Legally Blonde, whenever Elle is upset, she goes right to the nail salon. Or like in Insecure, Issa Rae is splitting her rent. with her situationship, in Friends, Rachel Green is like so financially clueless.

33:54The cool, glamorous women of that time weren't about their bag. And so I think that it made it seem like it was not chic to be good with money. You know what I mean? It sort of felt like it was cooler to spend your money all on shoes. And I definitely fell for that. Do you relate to that? I feel like you were more like you were just scared of not having enough. Yeah, well, I want to be cool more, which is a way worse quality. Yeah, no, I was scared of not having enough. I also had a fairly strict upbringing where I wasn't really allowed to watch much TV. Oh, that'll do it. Yeah, I was like I was a third child.

34:38They didn't know where I was. I was like, yeah, you were like a free range kid. Yeah, you know, and we were all so busy because I think part of being like an Upper East Side child is like you basically are booked like a CEO. The moment school ends, you're like going from one because it's all pre-college. Right. Yeah. So sports, this, that. And so I had, you know, I snuck in some time there to really make sure that I was up on the culture, much to my detriment. We have the opposite lives because I am pop culture clueless to almost a comical extent. Oh, my God. Like to such an extent, people will make these references to like Ghostbusters or E.T., Back to the Future or Bambi.

35:15And I haven't seen any of it, you know, Star Wars, like nothing. I just so people make these references and I just give them this totally blank stare. Or I've learned over the years to just kind of like smile and nod, but I have like a bit of a vacant look in my eyes. And my close friends have learned to recognize it. You have no idea what I'm referencing, do you? And I'm like, no. And they're like, I'm referencing the Big Lebowski. Have you seen it? And I'm like, no, you know, and like, it's brave of you to admit it. Thank you for the safe space. So what is your culture then? We're Nepalese immigrants.

35:51Like what are like when you like are off work or like what is, you know, what are you like interested in? Yeah. You know, people have asked me that in the past. I don't know if there's really any specific thing that substituted it. I think just every other thing in my life is maybe just takes a little bit longer. I don't know what it is. Like maybe I just dally more. I don't know what it is. I just have like so much more brain space than me who like knows every Taylor Swift relationship timeline. I'm like jealous. But I would do with that bandwidth. But also it's good because it didn't, hopefully it didn't affect you in the same way as it affected me.

36:23Well, but yeah, I think you're able to relate to people more, you know, whereas, okay, the one pop culture reference that I do get because everyone says that I remind them of this character is Kimmy Schmidt. Oh, cute. Yeah. Because you're in a bunker? Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's like, you remind me of Kimmy Schmidt. You're just completely clueless. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So. I haven't found you clueless at all. I found you very intelligent and vivacious and interesting to talk to. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I mean, book smart. But when it comes to pop culture, I'm clueless. You've got to be both. Yeah.

36:54Maybe not both. But, you know, I like books, too. Yeah. And that's why, honestly, I wrote a book because financial books changed my life. and I do think that like that is the best way like everyone is like there is no substitute you're just having a fine like you could just read one finance book it would change your entire life yeah what was the first one you read the first one that I read was I actually jumped it maybe too hard because I was like okay if I'm doing this I'm going full and I was obsessed I became obsessed accidentally with wall street so it was sort of where everything popped off for me so it didn't even start with personal finance it was really about investing and like you know I was like, wow, like business.

37:30And I want to know about stocks. And if a store was closing on my street, it was the end of brick and mortar. You know, like I was really bringing that to the table. I read Warren Buffett's Ground Rules, which is basically like a 500-page tome just about compound interest. Like if you read that whole book and you, it has like a lot of his shareholder letters. It's really interesting. It's a great book. I revisit it often. But like at the end of that book, if you're not just like, I need to get my money in the market working for me as soon as possible so that I can benefit from that compound interest, like there's just no way to read it and not to feel like that.

38:08So that was super fundamental for me. And I also think like, just in terms of a confidence boost, because I was like, wow, no one really ever taught me this. It's definitely not marketed to me, but it's not hard. Like, why is everyone pretending that we have to like use all this jargon and that I need like advanced levels of education to understand the stock market or my financial life. Like it's actually pretty much seventh grade math. Right. And I just need to like do four or five things right. And then I can be rich, but I also don't have to make this my whole person. I did make it my whole personality by accident.

38:38Yeah. So sorry, but you know, you don't have to. Right. It's part of a full life. It doesn't have to be your full life. Right. You don't need to day trade. You don't need to have your own business. You don't need to like you can live in a way that feels really comfortable and healthy for you. You don't need to over max out on the financial part of your personality unless you're me. Yeah. Or you. Yeah. I think we both went too far there. Yeah. We both did make it our entire personality. Oops. But too late now. But it's because it's fascinating. I think it's so I find it fascinating. Me too. I still love learning about like my favorite part of my job is just reading.

39:20Right. It is the best. Same, same. And we've both been doing this for over 10 years. Yeah. And I still just find it fascinating. I know. It's sort of cool. It's like being in a relationship and you're like, you still got it. Yeah. I still get the hots for you. Like, that's how I feel. Nice. Yeah.

40:05And within that time, we got so many applications. We got what we needed. So if you're hiring, Indeed is all you need. Give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Sponsored Jobs boosts your post for quality candidates. And that makes a big difference. Sponsored Jobs posted on Indeed are 90 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. And more than 1.6 million companies sponsor their jobs with Indeed. So our two hires have both been working for us for several months now. They're a great, wonderful part of the team. and we found them through Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

40:37Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash Paula. Just go to indeed.com slash Paula right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash Paula. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed.

41:07I have this tendency to be a bit of a people pleaser. I can be a bit of a pushover sometimes, too agreeable. And so I wanted to learn negotiation skills. That was the original impetus for wanting to learn. When I decided that I wanted to learn those skills, I went on this quest of absorbing as much information as I could. And that included watching Chris Voss's class on Masterclass. Chris Voss is a former FBI hostage negotiator. And what I discovered from his class is that the negotiation practiced by the FBI in hostage situations is very different from the type of negotiation taught in business schools.

41:43And so being able to take in both points of view helped me synthesize. And that really rounded out my understanding of the field. Masterclass puts you in the room with the people who defined their fields. They have more than 200 classes across 13 categories. Business, writing, cooking, creativity, wellness, and more. Plans start at$10 a month, billed annually, and every new membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Oh, and when I watched the Chris Voss class, it was easy to fit that into my day because every video was like bite-sized, snack-sized. So I could just pop on a video while I was cooking and absorb it in pieces.

42:20Masterclass keeps adding new classes, so there's never been a better time to get in. Right now, as a listener of this show, you get at least 15 % off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash afford. That's 15 % off at masterclass.com slash afford. Head to masterclass.com slash afford to see the latest offer. Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at the Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the Next Grill four burner gas grill on special buy for only$199 and entertain all season with the Hampton Bay West Grove seven-piece outdoor dining set for only$499. This Memorial Day, get low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot.

43:08While supplies last, price invalid May 14th through May 27th. U.S. only exclusions apply. See homedepot.com slash price match for details.

43:22And so with Ibiza, I-B-I-Z-A, what is the second letter I? The second letter I is interrupt. So this is where, okay, we've spent the first two steps figuring out where your financial habits are from and like what is sort of making you act or feel the way that you do about money. And then it's what you're saying. It's not your fault, but it is your responsibility. And the second I with interrupt, you start to take responsibility. So it's up to you to start to try to interrupt these patterns and act differently. So it's interrupting thought processes that are not serving you. Yeah. And interrupting patterns or habits.

44:04I guess this goes back to what we were talking about earlier with one pattern might be consumer spending for the sake of emotional regulation. A hundred percent. Using thought stopping, taking opposite action. A lot of people also create this huge narrative that they're doing everything wrong. so a lot of interrupt too is it's like doing a gratitude list almost for your finances where you have to focus on okay what did i do right because you're not going to get everything right but oh did i make like three positive changes this week let's talk about those let me write those down just being able to take a beat is really huge but yeah the opposite action is a big one where you want to buy that thing impulsively so you get that dopamine hit right what's the opposite action of that okay maybe it is that i just am putting down my phone it's freaking horrible.

44:51I don't want to do it. It's so fun to have your phone, but like, I'm literally just throwing it and I'm taking a walk for five minutes, taking a dramatic action to try and stop that moment. You've got to interrupt it. You know, something I do a lot. Well, not right now because I did my hair for you, Paula, but I do like cold shower, like put my hands in something cold. Cold really helps me. I even did it this morning. That will just rid my mind of toxic thinking or like actually, you know, making me want to take actions that I shouldn't. Like plunging your hands in cold water? Yeah, I do always do cold showers in the morning.

45:27I put my hands in cold water too if like that's not available. Just, yeah, you could take an ice cube and rub it on yourself. Just like something that like physically shocks the body really helps you like bring you back down to earth. Because sometimes just like sitting there, like I have to move or like do something physical to like get my nervous system feeling different. Yeah, that is a good interrupter. I'm the first financial expert who's talking about using an ice cube as a way to get rich. You are actually. Yeah. So it's like these like psychological tricks if you actually because, you know, it's not going to be easy to become a future rich person, but it will be worth it.

46:00And in those moments where it is hard, you need systems to support yourself because it's not like you're going to just wake up one day and like be this different person who's, you know, none of this happened to and who like suddenly has all this knowledge and is always going to act perfectly. Right. Your history will always be your history no matter what. Yeah, and I think that's so important too in finance books and as financial experts for us to talk about too. Okay, we're giving you all this advice, but we might not take it all the time. Like no one is on a perfect trajectory. But the point is, is that if you get 70 % of it right, you're going to be, you're going to have such a better life than if you didn't do anything at all.

46:35And like that 70 % could literally just be like automation, asking for a raise, making sure you are living within your means. Those are pretty much enough. Having a good credit card and banking system, making sure that you're maxing out your tax advantage accounts, that you have an emergency fund, these fundamental things. If you just get those right, you're pretty much set. It's not that complicated. Right. You know, what's the most complicated part is just that our own minds are f***ed. That's why you need to go to a visa. Yeah. Yes, girl. Yeah. The most complicated part is often getting out of our own way.

47:09And it is because money is such an inherently emotional topic. Because it's value driven. It's so funny you ask about like my upbringing because it's like, isn't that crazy that even in this like richer neighborhood, there still was like this feeling of not enough. It doesn't matter where you're at. It's like money represents. And that's why also people spend so much money trying to look rich instead of being rich, which we're seeing even more now. Like the New York Times just did an article about these influencers who teach people how to fake rich, which I think is a huge issue in the millennial and Gen Z generation.

47:43is this idea of like learned financial helplessness, which comes from like financial nihilism, where you just feel like, okay, I'm on this floating rock. The world is burning. AI has taken all the jobs. Like there's no opportunity for me to ever buy a house. The system is cooked. So why even try? Let me instead just put my energy into looking rich instead of being rich. Let me ignore my credit cards. Let me just like quiet quit at work because like I'm being passive on this journey because it's already just out to get me. Right. And so that's a big one that you have to interrupt because learned financial helplessness could eat you alive.

48:19Like there's so many reasons not to. Right. Right. Right. A million reasons why you can't, why you shouldn't, why there's no reason to. But at the end of the day, most people are going to listen to those reasons. So just by not, you're putting yourself into that small group who are going to win. Right. And winning is not hard. You know, with learned financial helplessness, I'm thinking about my friend group right now. Yeah, name names, girl. Well, not naming names, but... It just becomes like a gossip show. There is one person I'm thinking of who... Her expression of learned financial helplessness is that the way she approaches everything is by saying, oh, I don't have the money for that.

49:02Yep. She tries to negotiate the price on everything, which in some ways it's a good thing because... No, I don't think that's good. I mean, she's able to score deals on things. But it's like if you're with the farmers, like if it's like a small business, like it's like part of money etiquette and like being a rich person is being able to say like, OK, this is coming from like a local farmer. I'm not going to like ask for these string beans to be four dollars instead of five. Yeah. It's like she does it with everything ranging from you mentioned comedy earlier, everything ranging from rent to comedy classes.

49:33Like she just makes deals on literally everything because the first statement out of her mouth is I don't have the money for this. What can we do? You know, and so in that sense, she's externalizing like I don't have the money for this. So how can you bend in order to take care of me? Yes. Versus how can I maybe find the money so that like, yes. By the way, I don't want to say that you shouldn't negotiate. Right. Even just by negotiating your car insurance, if you compare rates, you can save people save on average a thousand dollars. So, you know, you can negotiate your rent. You can negotiate down your credit card interest rates like that's so great.

50:10But I think like when you're negotiating things with like small businesses, it just becomes something that is draining. And like your friends are noticing it's a bit too much. So I'll get for that. Yeah, it's yes. You could look inside of herself for, OK, how can I actually afford to take like, you know, a struggling comedian taking a comedy class needs the money. Yeah, yeah. You don't want to take it away from them. Yeah, exactly. It's funny because sometimes it can be the right behavior for the wrong reasons. Because on one hand, negotiation generally is a good thing. Yeah. Or like, you know, it's a - She maxed out on it too much.

50:42I think it's the mindset behind it. Like the mindset of, I expect the world to bend in order to cater to the budget that I state that I have rather than I'm going to look inside myself to say, how can I double down, make sacrifices, not go out as much, cut my spending, work harder, you know, like. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's not the actual. Level herself up. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that is learned financial helplessness for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And it took me a while to notice that. She's lucky. Have you ever talked to her about it? No, no, I haven't. I feel like that might be hard to bring up, but like also it's like sort of cool that you know that about her, like you could maybe help her.

51:24Yeah. I've noticed that as an example, just another example of learned financial helplessness. Yeah. You see it everywhere. I mean, people who are listening probably see it in themselves too. Yeah. You know, I definitely had it. I think it's hard not to have it in some way. Right. Yeah. And sometimes people can express it in different ways. Some people are very avoidant, for example. Yeah. And also even like little mindset things where you think like other people are just smarter or better equipped to deal with money than I am, which we tell ourselves I feel like a lot or I used to tell myself that too.

51:54Like, oh, this is just isn't for me. I'm not the kind of person who can do this. Right. Exactly. Just these little repeating ticks that we have that keep us in place, keep us stagnant. Right. But I do just want to say like truly the majority of people have those and are completely overtaken by them. So just by pushing back and like choosing to interrupt and go to Ibiza and judge your mindset and take action, then you put yourself in the position to win. Right. But there's not that many people out on the field. Most people are just going to complain and stay stuck. Yeah. So then it is about interrupting those thought patterns and the actions that stem from them.

52:35Yeah. So then the Z for it is judge. So like looking at your mindset and thinking about like, what's my old mindset versus my future rich mindset? Maybe your mindset is I don't deserve to be rich. And then your future rich mindset is like, I don't need to settle. I'm waking up to my worth. Or talking about money is gross. But your future rich mindset would be like talking about money openly with trusted people is how I grow. Right. So Z for zhuzh, which is spelled Z-H-U-S-H. Z-H-U-Z-H. Z-H-U-Z-H. But pronounced zhuzh, J-O-O-J. Okay. So what does zhuzh mean? Well, really to step into your future rich person era, you do have to like clear out your old limiting beliefs and replace them with sparkly limitless ones.

53:24So this step is all about zhuzhing up your mindset. And I think it's really important to remember that every future rich person started where you are now. They didn't get there by accident. They got there because they believed that they could. 97 % of millionaires believe they could be millionaires before they made a dime. So that's what I'm saying. So many people will never even try or step on the court. But the ones who do and have that belief, they're unstoppable. Have you read The Millionaire Next Door? Of course. One of the best. I love that book. Yes. So if you feel like you're capable of building wealth, then you're going to make decisions that align with that belief and then it will become your reality.

54:04But again, this is not an overnight job. The path here is not like one and done. You're going to get it wrong. There are going to be things that you're going to have thoughts that you have to just identify as just noise and really realize that like those old money beliefs are not the boss of you. and you are creating your own money beliefs that you are consciously putting into your mind that are going to then guide your actions. Right. And that takes a lot of work, but that is something that is totally doable. But it's like, it's something that I practice. Like this morning, I was like saying all these mindset things to myself about the day.

54:41Like what? Well, I don't know. I woke up a little bit anxious. I was, I've been doing so much press for the book, just saying things like, only good things happen to girls like me. I am smart. I'm confident today is going to be a great day. Things like that just makes such a difference. You know, I'm wealthy. Opportunities always find me. There's so much money out there. Why not me? Whenever I have those more negative thoughts, trying to replace them with a belief that counteracts that because, you know, the negative thought's not true. That's just your old system. And it's so addictive to have bad feelings.

55:19Right. You know what I mean? Like it feels so much more enticing to feel bad than it does to feel good. It's like picking a scab. You sort of want more of that bad pain. So you really have to like get past that in order to get to the next level. Yeah. You know, we had Neil Ayer on the show recently and he talked about the same concept about how we often want to wallow in a negative feeling. It's crazy, right? And if you ask yourself, if instead you ask yourself, if you ask yourself the question, is this true? Then you're, of course, immediately you want to be like, of course it's true. But then if you follow that up with like, is it absolutely, definitely, certainly the only possible truth?

55:59Yes. Well, okay. There could be an alternate truth. I know. We convince ourselves so intensely that like, these are the facts, but they're not. Like there's so many, there's so many other ways for things to be. Right. Exactly. And so, yeah, even if it's corny, like doing like these things that feel so maybe it's not your thing to like have a mantra or like consciously choose positive thinking it really helps like if you're serious about getting rich and really changing your money mindset and changing your financial actions you do have to start with your beliefs because who you believe yourself to be that's where your actions take place from you know you can learn everything you want about the stock market about getting out of debt, about crypto.

56:44I don't know what your passion is, but it will never actually work unless you make the changes. I don't know if you're going to get this reference. Do you know who Tyra Banks is? She's a supermodel. Good job, Paula. Okay, girl. We're cooking with gas. Woo-hoo. Okay, so I'll fill you in a little bit. Tyra was a super big supermodel in the 90s, and then she was very smart. She created this hit show, America's Next Top Model. It was a huge hit. It was franchised. It was in all these different countries, lots of money for Tyra. But she grew up with a lot of scarcity. Then she just started working when she was young and basically just hoarded all of her money and never really dealt with her financial belief system and like her relationship to money.

57:27And it got to the point where she had accountants, you know, because she was at the point in her financial life, whatever, she needed a team. And they were like, Tyra, you need to actually start spending money. Good problem to have because you're giving all of your money to taxes. So we're going to set up something for you called an F account. And this is like your money where you can spend it on what really you value. But like as a actual financial strategy, you do need to be spending more money because otherwise the government is just going to take it. So don't you want to enjoy it? Like within her business, they wanted her to.

58:04Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. But I always find that interesting because it's like it's actually a bad financial example because it's like she never fixed her financial mindset and then just basically created a system around her that allowed her to keep existing in that way. But most people aren't going to have accountants who are like, here's your F account or like, here's the antidote to all of this trauma that you have. We have to do it ourselves. Right. But it does highlight the importance of system building as well. Oh, 100%. And surrounding yourself with a very good team. Yes. And also that like, as you get more money, so much of the work becomes like today, we're recording this on tax day, not to brag.

58:41And so much of the work of becoming a future rich person is like, it's not just making money. It's how do you preserve your wealth? How do you keep more of it? You know, what are the systems that you have? You know, even with you, you're going to be hiring more people. Like what are the ways in which that's the most advantaged for you so that you are keeping the most money at the end of the day. Because if you make$100 and you keep 85 % of it, it's really different than making like$150 or$200 and keeping like 30 % of it, you know? Right. So far, we've talked about the first I is identify. The B is blame.

59:19The second I is interrupt. The Z is zhuzh. Zhuzh, fun to say. What's the A? How do we cap this all off. Well, the A is act because the thing is, is that when you take action, you really create momentum. But like when you sit still, nothing really happens. So all this knowledge is so helpful, but it doesn't really matter if you don't act on it. So you start with I, B, I, Z. And then A is like the exact actions that you need to take to then become a future rich person. So the A is the tactical component. Exactly. That then you're set up to actually be open to and actually utilize because you've cleared out all of those limiting beliefs and your childhood trauma and you understand why you're moving in the way that you are and you're ready to make different choices.

1:00:06But I also start the step five a act with just like a short 15 minute exercise, because I really do believe, like I said, action creates more action, creates momentum. So I tell everyone set a timer for 15 minutes and just in those 15 minutes, choose one of these actions and do it. So whether that's check your credit score, cancel a subscription, email HR to ask about like your 401k match, open all your mail. No one wants to open their mail. I hate opening mail. Go to, set a time for 15 minutes, probably gonna do it today. Go open all your freaking mail, shred the stuff that you don't need, actually respond to what you do.

1:00:46But that's something that we always put off. Set up paperless billing for a bill, you know, return any online orders you've forgotten about. But just by having that little 15-minute sort of head start, it's going to move you towards financial freedom because success breeds success. And you have to sort of create a track record with yourself that you are a future rich person. And it starts with those really small steps. Like, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day. It's literally you could, your whole financial journey could start just by you opening all your bail. It's easier said than done because it often leads to just administrative overwhelm and financial overwhelm.

1:01:23That's something I hear about a lot from my audience is like, particularly for people who have been avoiding things for a while, once you start down the rabbit hole, every task. Too many things. Yeah, it's too many things and it's overwhelming. And then every task. Financial energy is zero. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that 100%. That's why you need automation. Like even if you, okay, So say you hate your bills, which I mean, hate your bills. Everyone hates their bills. But say you hate opening your mail. Yeah. When you go through your mail, instead of just going through it unconsciously, whenever you open it, think about, OK, could this be paperless?

1:01:58Yeah. Is there something that I could set up to make this easier next time? So then you're creating more of a system versus just you're checking out a task that you're going to have to do again next month, you know, but also set timers and don't do it all in one day because the worst thing that you can do is burn out. That's why like really intense budgeting doesn't work either. Like so much of becoming a future rich person is having balance. You know, I always like financial anorexia doesn't work. You know, really strict diets don't work. The pendulum will swing back. Right. So it's about creating systems and then also having room for fun and good living and things that you enjoy, too, because that's what's going to make it sustainable.

1:02:35Right. Of the multitude of actions that people can take, there's automating your finances, there's enrolling in a Roth IRA for the first time, if you haven't done so yet, like there's, there's just this long list of actions that a person could take. What do you think are the top priorities? I think that the top priority is really just to have a money date as like your first step and make that something that you're doing monthly, even if you don't want to. I always say I've been doing money dates for over eight years. I never really want to do it. It's like going to the gym, just sort of like you would rather do anything else.

1:03:09Yeah. So a money date is. It's a set time every month. I do it on the last Sunday of every month. I would not cancel it unless like Taylor Swift won't hang out. Do you know who Taylor Swift is? I do. Good job. Nailed it. Yes, Paula. And it is a time where I can review my, I do like an audit. I review my credit card statements, which by the way, even though I keep a close eye on things, there's always something. There's always something nefarious happening there. And most people are just like going off of vibes. They're not looking. Right. I'm reviewing any like Venmo or PayPal things. Did that friend pay me back?

1:03:44Did I pay that friend? I'm reviewing invoices to make sure that I was paid. So I'm keeping a really tight eye on my bottom line, which is super important because if you don't, then someone else will. It's hard to hold onto money. There's a lot out there that wants to take it from you. So you got to make sure you have a system in place to actually succeed at that. This is also when I return any packages that maybe I've forgotten about, the mail, canceling subscriptions, just like getting things in order and then setting goals for the next month. So, okay, maybe I want to go on a trip in two months.

1:04:14So like, you know, whenever I'm going to travel, I always cut back, even though I don't need to, it's just like a tick where I always feel like before I'm going to go on a trip, I like tighten things up a little bit. I don't, that is, I need to figure out from my childhood why I'm doing that. Because I don't remember us doing that so much. Maybe that's something I just picked up. You know, if I'm going on a trip, okay, how am I budgeting for that? Like, what am I looking out for this month? a lot of times before you travel, especially with Instagram, it makes you feel like you need to like buy so much new stuff or like do like all these like beauty treatments before.

1:04:44So like if I have that time and my money date to like sort of think through, okay, what might be the hurdles that I'm going to face to like stick to my financial goals this month? It's going to make it easier for me not to fall for them. Or, okay, I need to ask for a raise this month. Okay, how can I, can I schedule time on Thursday after work to chat with AI, where I'm pretending that AI is my boss and we're going back and forth and I'm negotiating the raise with the AI so that when I go in, I'm really confident and I'm getting together like my wins folder of everything that I did well this year.

1:05:14You know, like, so it also puts you in a position to plan for the future so that you are able to succeed. All right. So all of that stems from a once a month money date. So it sounds like money data is like just comprehensive review and planning. And don't make it too long. Like start everything small so that you want to do it again. Like I said, financial energy is finite. So don't burn yourself out on the future rich person journey. The goal is consistency. That's literally it. Like the person who goes to the gym once is not going to be as fit as for, you know, for two hours and does it so intensely is not going to be as fit as a person who's going three times, two times a week, even if they're doing moderate training.

1:05:53It's the same thing with your I mean, there's so much between like food and dieting and with money. Right. It's always like an easy analogy. Right. But it's true. It's just about being consistent. Do you do a money date? I've never called it that or thought of it like that. But for me, if I don't call it that and schedule it, it'll never happen. Yeah. Because I'm like very type B. Like it's like I am. Yes, I come from money, but I'm also a self-made millionaire. Let me have it. Let me have it, Paula. I did it, girl. I came from stuff, but also made some and I would never do it. I would do anything else.

1:06:26I'd go to like a yodeling conference, like whatever you want, wherever you invite me. If it's on like if I'm supposed to be doing a money date, I'm going there instead. So I have to really etch it into my calendar and make sure it's like written in blood. And then I do it. How long does it take? Well, it's I'm saying it's like at the beginning, like your audience that you're saying gets really overwhelmed by financial tasks, which I totally understand. Not the whole audience, but there are some people. No, and I get that. And something that I use a lot is the Pomodoro method. So like set a timer for 25 minutes.

1:06:56Right. And then just get as far as you can. You know what I mean? And then take a five minute break. And then you can do it again for 25 more minutes. Then you can do it again. You don't have to fix your own financial life in one day. Wherever you're at, it didn't get that way in one day. So it's like it might take a little bit of time to untangle. But like as long as you show up with consistent action, then you're going to be way ahead of all these other people. Yeah, even 25 minutes, especially if things are really tangled up, 25 minutes every morning, consistently, similar to the gym, can make a big dent.

1:07:23Yeah, or yeah, like, yeah, once a week, every morning, like, whatever you have energy for is, like, what the most important thing. Right. Showing up for yourself. And also, then it builds that self-belief where you're taking action, and action creates more action. So then you become, like, we're talking about, okay, replacing our self-image of ourselves to become a future rich person. the more that you prove to yourself by those little actions, like, okay, 15 minutes, 25 minutes, then the more you're going to start to see yourself like that and act like it. Excellent. Well, thank you for spending this time with us.

1:07:52Where can people find you if they'd like to learn more? Well, first and foremost, like I said, a financial book can change your life. All it takes is one. Future Rich Person, out on Audible. I read the whole audio book. And then also I have a podcast called Financial Tea, and I'm everywhere as Mrs. Dow Jones, MRS, married to the Dow. Perfect. Yes, thank you. Stay rich, Paula. Stay rich. Thank you to Haley, also known as Mrs. Dow Jones. What are three key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Key takeaway number one, your childhood is still running your finances. A lot of us think that our money habits come from decisions that we make as an adult, but they don't.

1:08:35They come from lessons, subconscious lessons that we absorbed as kids. By the time you're seven years old, your core beliefs about money are already forming. And your parents don't necessarily have to say anything about money. You pick up their relationship with it. You pick up their habits. You pick up the vibe. You pick up the mood. You're watching. You're absorbing. And the good news is that as an adult, once you start to name those beliefs, you can begin to change them. And our money relationships are formed by the time we're seven years old. Even if you're not saying to a seven-year-old, here's how to budget, they're still understanding exactly from how you're moving with money.

1:09:19Okay, like money is something that you should feel anxious about, or money is something that we never have enough of, or, you know, like all these feelings. And then that's what you bring into adulthood. That is the first key takeaway. Key takeaway number two. If you are reliant on money that is not yours, you'll stay small. Financial independence is not just about having a bigger number in your bank account or access to funds for the sake of lifestyle. It's about having full control over your own life. Haley talks about a birthday dinner at Momofuku in Toronto, and she charged it to her parents' credit card and then spent the rest of the night avoiding her phone, feeling shame, feeling avoidance, knowing that she was going to need to explain herself.

1:10:09The problem was not the cost of the dinner. The problem was that she was spending somebody else's money. and that meant that they retained authority, they retained control. Whenever somebody else is funding your life, they have a say in it and that means you have less autonomy and that's why taking full control over your own money is critical. Whenever your money is not your own, be it maybe you're in a relationship where you're financially reliant, you're in debt, so you're relying on the government or credit cards for your cost of living, or maybe your parents are paying for things. Whenever your money is not your own, it comes with so many strings attached and that keeps you really small.

1:10:56Finally, key takeaway number three, you're spending your financial energy on the wrong things. We only have so much mental bandwidth. And when your cognitive load is sapped by something, good luck. because you only have so much attention that you can give in a given day. Attention is even more scarce than time. And most of us have been trained to burn our cognitive bandwidth on tiny stuff that barely moves the needle. So we're skipping lattes, we're couponing, we're agonizing over small purchases. And the big stuff, like negotiating a raise, maxing out tax-advantaged accounts, earning more, being entrepreneurial, buying investments.

1:11:43These big things get zero attention or limited attention. Haley talks about the concept of financial energy. The idea is really simple. You just treat your energy and your attention like a finite resource, which it is, and then spend it where it really matters. I feel like we were given so the short end of the stick. They told us to use our financial energy on things like couponing, on things like skipping the latte, when in reality, it's like, okay, if you have this finite amount of financial energy, what's the best use of it? How can I learn more about compound interest and how maybe I could max out my tax-advantaged retirement account?

1:12:23These things that really would move the needle forward and that are actually going to, in 30 years, create such a difference in your financial life versus those small changes that are really just distractions. Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with Haley Sachs, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones. Thank you for tuning into today's show. We have a course on rental property investing. It is called Your First Rental Property, and we walk you A through Z on how to invest in rental properties. It is incredibly rigorous, very robust. I had a meeting last night. I had an office hours with my students.

1:13:03People talked about how much this changed their lives. One student came to the call and she talked about two particular properties, both of which she purchased recently and both of which have been game changers, creating the cash flow that's giving her breathing room, paying a portion of her bills, giving her a taste of residual income. And once you start building that, the flywheel begins spinning. We walk you through exactly how properties make money. There's cash flow, there's equity growth through principal pay down, equity growth through forced appreciation, market appreciation. There's tax benefits.

1:13:39We walk you through all of that. Then we help you find where to buy a property. Where are the places with great price to rent ratios? Where are the great markets out there? How do you look for deals? Do you look on market or off market? We walk you through all of that. We talk about financing, both conventional loans, institutional, non-conventional loans, creative financing, like seller financing. This is the closest thing to holding your hand. We walk you through everything. You can learn more about it by going to affordanything.com slash enroll. That's affordanything.com slash enroll. We close our doors on Thursday, May 21st.

1:14:18You've got between now and Thursday. affordanything.com slash enroll. Thank you again for being part of the Afford Anything community. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share this with your friends and family. My name is Paula Pant. This is the Afford Anything Podcast, and I'll meet you in the next episode.