Q&A: Should I Sell One Property to Pay Off Another?

24:14It's just a perfect outfit for that. Cozy Earth also has these lake house clogs that I really like that are great for when you're at home. They're cushioned, they're soft inside, they're cozy enough that you forget you're wearing them. And Cozy Earth pieces are built to last. They're not fast fashion. They're durable. They're something that you'll reach for years from now. Try it for yourself. Cozy Earth backs everything with a 30-day return policy because they're confident you'll feel the difference. And if you don't, returning it is simple. And they have a lifetime warranty. And a lifetime warranty on homeware is not something that you see a lot, so that type of commitment tells you something about how they're made.

24:55This spring, give yourself the kind of comfort that lives with you all day, not just the moment you get home. Head to CozyEarth.com and use my code AFFORDANYTHING for an exclusive 20 % off. That's code AFFORDANYTHING for an exclusive 20 % off. And if you see a post-purchase survey, mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Comfort lives here.

25:27welcome back our next question comes from vaughn hi paula and joe this is vaughn from michigan and i have two unrelated questions my first is about cap rates paula often refers to cap rates as the unleveraged dividend yield on a property and says that the total return is the cap rate plus any appreciation. That makes sense to me for a single-family rental where the home's value is largely driven by overall market conditions. However, am I correct in thinking that for multifamily properties, the market value is primarily determined by the property's income? If so, does that mean that the cap rate and total return would effectively be the same since any appreciation would largely come from changes in income rather than external market factors.

26:21And then my second question is about contribution limits for retirement plans. Why is there such a large gap between how much you can contribute to an IRA versus an employer-sponsored plan like a 401k when both are meant to encourage retirement savings. I recently saw a statistic that the average person in the U.S. will have around 12 jobs over their lifetime. That's a lot of different employer-sponsored plans to keep track of, coordinate, or rollover. Wouldn't it make more sense to allow individuals to contribute up to 401k level limits in a single IRA and then have employers make matching contributions directly into that account.

27:04It seems like that approach would reduce the administrative burden for employers and simplify things for employees who would only need to manage one retirement account regardless of where they worked. Maybe the current system made more sense back when people worked for the same company for 35 years, but it seems very outdated and inefficient in today's work environment. I'd love to hear your thoughts on both of these. Thanks for a great podcast.

27:31Paula Pant:Paul, a good timing on Vaughn's question about real estate. Yeah. Especially with what's coming up tonight. But this idea of cap rate, does it work on multi-unit properties? Actually, Vaughn, it is the opposite of what you asked about. So you said you get how it works on single family, but not on multifamily. Flip that around. Cap rate actually has a much closer relationship to the valuation of a multifamily than it does to a single family. And here's why. If a person is buying a multifamily property, they're an investor and they're looking for returns. And if you're an investor who's looking for a return, then you are going to value a property in a manner that is related to its cap rate.

28:15As an investor, you're looking for a good cap rate relative to the risk profile of the property. And when I say risk profile of the property, I mean the type of neighborhood that it's in, the condition that the property itself is in. All of those play into the risk profile of the property. As an investor, you're looking for a cap rate that is commensurate with the risk profile of that property. Certain things, you know, if the neighborhood improves, for example, those are market-based things that are outside of your individual control. If the condition of the property improves, that's called forced depreciation.

28:51that is within your, as the owner, that is within your direct control. Those things do improve. They lower the risk and therefore improve the market value of the property. But at the end of the day, the investor, if you just think about buying a business, right? If you're buying any business, what are you going to look at? You're going to look at the returns on that business and then you're going to pay, just to talk about business buying in a very simple manner, you're likely going to value the business at some multiple of its returns. Conceptually, that same thing happens when an investor buys a multi-unit property.

29:28And that's why the cap rate in a multi-unit has a very, very close relationship with the valuation on that multi-unit. Now, contrast that with a single family where the most likely buyer is going to be an owner-occupant. If you're selling to owner-occupants, then you're selling to people who are not making a spreadsheet-based decision. They're making an emotional decision. And when you sell the people who are making an emotional decision, then it doesn't matter what the property rents for. It matters what emotional spark you can create. Now, of course, neighborhood, condition of property, those play into that.

30:06You can't just bake cookies and install beautiful, gleaming hardware and infinitely raise the value of the property. But we do know that baking cookies and upgrading the hardware does generally have a positive correlation to higher valuations on a single family. Why? Because you want to give an owner-occupant buyer, a retail home buyer, the wow factor when they walk into that open house. That's not something that you're thinking about when you're selling a multi-unit to an investor.

30:38Paula Pant:I mean, that's 100 % right. even in my life, I've been investing for a long, long time. And the house that we purchased was based on an emotional decision. It was where I wanted to live. It was on the block I wanted to live. Was the price right for the place that I wanted to live? Heck, we just added on, we've talked about this on the show before. You were just here, Paula. This room was stupid. Right. Your new addition. It is not at all what you would do if you were an investor. It's the dumbest room, But Paula, is it cool? Oh my God, it's so cool. It's so cool. It is so much not the decision that you make.

31:17Paula Pant:So it's a whole separate part of your brain. Like I made that for purely lifestyle decisions. I've been to live here for a long time. I want a place that's beautiful, that I can go hang out in. And we hung out there almost the whole time you were here. Just for context, everyone, Joe just built this new addition onto his home. Beautiful room. It's what is like 400 square feet or so? 400 square feet, yeah. Absolutely 400 gorgeous square feet. It's got this massive fireplace that's probably over six feet long with this copper wall. It is metal that was meant to rust. And when we installed it, it was completely black.

32:00Paula Pant:And now it's turning this nice copper color, which is what we're going for. Right. And you've got a built-in wine fridge. You've got an outdoor built-in grill. Yeah. Whole outdoor kitchen attached to it. This cool raised circular fire pit area, because people that know me know how much I like hanging out at the fire pit. So it's this beautiful fire pit area. I saw the design. I thought this is stupid. And in fact, the guy that installed it said, when I saw the design, he said he thought it was stupid. And then he built mine and he went home and told his spouse, he's like, we need one of these two.

32:36Yeah. So yeah, Joe, you've designed a room where you go from the fireplace to the fire pit. Right. Joe's a secret pyromaniac.

32:43Paula Pant:Well, I thought when they said achieving fire, that was what it was about.

32:49Paula Pant:You were like the fire community. Oh, cool. I love these people. You know how awkward that got? But I'm the only one talking about a solo stove and a gas lighter. Oh my God, Joe's got a flamethrower. He has a literal flamethrower. I don't want to brag, but my friend Mike got me the world's best fire starter. But anyway, that's a perfect example of spending that you did on a single family home, which is a primary residence that is purely for the sake of personal enjoyment and as an investment makes zero sense. And if you were to rent out your property, let's say that you and Cheryl decide that you want to spend a year, I don't know, traveling across Asia, right?

33:41And you decide to rent out your property. There would theoretically, sure, you could take that rental income and calculate some sort of a cap rate on your property, and it's probably going to be garbage.

33:51Paula Pant:Could be horrible. And the fact that that cap rate on your property is garbage has no relationship to if you were to then sell your property the next year, it has no relationship to what you would sell that property for. Because the person buying that property is likely not going to be buying it to rent it out. They're going to be buying it because it's got this awesome fireplace that leads to a fire pit. I love it when we use Joe's bad financial moves as our example. Here's exhibit A of what not to do, Bon. All right. So let's talk about Vaughn's second question. Yeah, this one I can actually chime in on in a way where I'm not the example of the person doing the - Where you're not the cautionary tale.

34:35That's right. Yes.

34:37Paula Pant:Vaughn, I've often wondered this. And obviously I think, Paula, any answer we give is going to be complete conjecture, but I think that's what Vaughn wants us to do. I strongly, having thought about this, Vaughn, I'm ever a bit as frustrated as you are, number one, because it does seem ridiculous that we can put so much money into a 401k or a 403b through work, even a simple plan, a solo 401k. And then you get to the regular old IRA, or the regular Roth IRA, and it feels so, so, so much less. And the only, the only way I can think that this actually makes sense is through the lens of, if I'm a member of Congress, who's going to ultimately have to put this in a bill to change the rules, why would I not do that?

35:32Paula Pant:And I think the answer is, if you tie these higher employment numbers, if you tie these higher contribution numbers to employment, that maybe they see it as a carrot to keep unemployment low. It's just another reason why people might want to go get a job. You don't think having a paycheck is the reason people get a job? I would think so. But what other reason would you have? Because there seems to be no reason. That's the only reason that I could come up with is that somebody somewhere said no. Number one, I think Vons thought about it way more than Congress has. That's probably true. That's number one.

36:17Paula Pant:But number two, I do feel like the reason why working for an employer has all of these quote advantages are just multiple reasons to continue to hopefully keep employment numbers higher. But that's all I can come up with. Overall though, Paula, this is why I also don't spend a lot of time on this. I can spend a lot of time and energy with how frustrating it is. Some of the ways that the rules are backward, don't make sense. And I could just get frustrated or I can not spend my time and energy really worried about that and figure out how to use the rules the way they are, which I think is a much better use of our energy than questioning why the heck.

37:09Why the rules are written in the way they are. But one commonality that Joe and I both have, And one thing that I think is a little rare to find in today's environment, Joe, you and I both, we like to focus on what is in a world in which people have endless conversations about what should be. And people often are at great odds with one another about what should be to such an extent that families are sometimes torn apart because people can't agree on a shared vision of what should be. rather than discuss what should be. Joe and I both prefer to take a look at what is and then say, all right, given the conditions on the field at this present moment, what's the next actionable step?

37:58What do we do from here? How do we plan a life? And how do we stay inside of our own internal locus of control given the reality of the present situation at this present moment? That's our approach to life.

38:13Paula Pant:And it's so frustrating that that is not the prevailing wisdom. And it's how as afforders, I think we're different. And yet I was in an Uber about a week and a half ago with the driver who kept telling me how they couldn't save any money. And that was why they were Ubering. And I thought, this is cool. This is a person trying to take control. I'm trying to work extra hours. Respect. And I'm doing the thing. Huge respect for that. I can be online complaining about somebody I don't know, or I can be out making stuff happen. It was really cool talking to this woman who was going to change her situation.

38:50Paula Pant:I felt like in a short time just by sheer force. So Vaughn, that's not to say that I don't love the question because I do love the question. And obviously I've kind of plated this. And then I go, you know, I can't do anything about that. I could write my congressperson and say, how come we're not focused on this? But would I like to see IRA contribution limits increased? Heck yeah, I would. Please. I know that lots of members of Congress listen to this show. There you go. You'll get the afforder vote. Higher contribution limits. Higher contribution limits. What do we want?

39:31Higher 10 years ago.

39:34Paula Pant:Doesn't seem to have the ring that we're open for. Yeah, we'll workshop that. Workshop that one. All right. Well, Vaughn, thank you for both questions. And please come to the webinar tonight. Again, affordanything.com slash rentals2026. Totally free. We're going to take one final break to hear from the sponsors who make this show possible. And when we return, you know, on the topic of retirement accounts, Layla has a question about pausing Roth contributions in order to prioritize other goals. Most of us have some skill that we want to learn or something we want to get better at. For me, last year, it was negotiating because that was when I was really diving into the world of negotiation.

40:20I took the masterclass by Chris Voss. He's a former FBI hostage negotiator. What I discovered is that negotiation that I had studied previously, which was business school negotiation, is very different from the type of negotiation that you get from an FBI hostage negotiator. Being able to get that wider lens understanding really improved my knowledge of the study of how to negotiate. That was through Masterclass. Unlike other learning platforms, Masterclass puts you in the room with people who defined their fields, the best in the world. So you can learn about the principles of improv from Amy Poehler.

40:57You can learn about designing your dream home on a budget with Joanna Gaines. You can learn about habits from James Clear. Plans start at just$10 a month, billed annually, and every membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. The thing that I'm most interested in right now is Masterclass has these classes on how to use AI to work smarter and get more done. Masterclass keeps adding new classes, so there's never been a better time to get in. Right now, as a listener of this show, you can get at least 15 % off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash afford. That's 15 % off at masterclass.com slash afford.

41:34Head to masterclass.com slash afford to see the latest offer. Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. I need the right person with the right background who can move our business forward. word. If I wanted candidates who match what I'm looking for, I'd trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs. In fact, I did. I used Indeed Sponsored Jobs to make two hires. One was for an executive assistant and the other was for a customer support and operations assistant. For both positions, we had the job posting up for less than 48 hours. And within that time, we got so many applications. We got what we needed.

42:09So if you're hiring, Indeed is all you need. Give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Sponsored Jobs boosts your post for quality candidates and that makes a big difference. Sponsored Jobs posted on Indeed are 90 % more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs and more than 1.6 million companies sponsor their jobs with Indeed. So our two hires have both been working for us for several months now. They're a great, wonderful part of the team and we found them through Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

42:42And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash Paula. Just go to Indeed.com slash Paula right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash Paula. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Do it the right way with Indeed. Study.

43:07Paula Pant:And play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC.

43:43Welcome back. Our final question today comes from Layla. Hi, Paula. I know you and Joe are big fans of the Roth, but I'm wondering if there's ever a reason to stop Roth contributions in order to meet other goals. For context, I'm in my late 30s, along with my husband. And we have over$400 ,000 in Roth accounts with a total of 1 million in non-529 investments spread between$400 ,000 in Roth,$500 ,000 in pre-tax,$20 ,000 in an HSA, and only$80 ,000 in a brokerage account. The reason why we're able to have so much Roth contributions is because I have access to a mega backdoor Roth through my work, which I've been maximizing for the last few years.

44:42Our goal is to retire by 50 and be able to have a spend of about $150 ,000 a year. We are targeting around$3.75 million to be able to do that in investments, But I'm wondering if for the first five years, I might need more in my taxable brokerage. And therefore, because I can only contribute so much towards savings at this point, should I focus more of my savings towards the taxable brokerage at the expense of the mega backdoor Roth? For context, we are in the 35th percentile for income taxes, so at a fairly high marginal tax rate. And this means that when I've asked Claude and Gemini, they have suggested that to meet my goals of retiring by 50, I should pause my mega backdoor Roth contributions since I'm paying a very high tax rate for that.

46:03and instead redirect it to the brokerage because the 15 percentile taxable rate that I could get from a taxable brokerage withdrawal in the future would be much more optimal than the 35 percentile marginal tax rate that I'm paying right now. Curious to get yours and Joe's thoughts if you agree with the different AI chats that I've asked, or if as Roth super fans, you would suggest that I really try to squeeze making that mega backdoor Roth maximized every year. Thank you.

46:41Paula Pant:Layla, thank you for the question. And before we answer it, Paula, can I defend at least my honor here. Oh, all right. Which is I, I'll let Paula speak for herself. I am not a Roth super fan. I am not a super fan of any investment. I hope to never be a super fan of any investment. I'm a super fan of plugging the right tool into the correct solution. It just happens to be that in a lot of cases, the Roth has been the correct tool. I just want to be clear. I just want to use what works. I am a Roth super fan. Absolutely. Total. She's got a Roth t-shirt on, her Roth bug. Yeah, exactly. Roth it up, Roth dog.

47:35Yes. So yeah, I am a Roth super fan. Absolutely. But that does not necessarily apply to the mega backdoor Roth because with a mega backdoor, that's a whole different can of worms.

47:49Paula Pant:When you put the word mega on it, it could be too much of a good thing. Yeah. It's bigger than it can. It's a bucket of worms. It's a bag of worms, sack of worms. It's a mega sack of worms. It's a mega sack of worms. Yeah. The mega backdoor Roth has a whole bevy of considerations. How's that for a word? That are not present when you are simply directing money from your paycheck into either a traditional IRA or a Roth IRA or a traditional 401k or a Roth 401k, like that is a much simpler set of trade-offs. And that is a much simpler evaluation. It gets different when you're talking about a megabact or Roth.

48:37That's not to say don't do it. It's just to say, when I say that I am a Roth super fan, 100%, my bias is strongly Roth unless you can make a very convincing argument otherwise. But that applies to new contributions that come from a paycheck.

48:55Paula Pant:I think when it comes to this question, Paula, I think first we have to talk about the use of AI. Because I think it's really important to know how should we use AI and how should we think about using AI. Because, Layla, I like your use of AI in this case, but I want to define why I like your use of AI. There was a recent piece in psychology today of all places asking about financial advice specifically. Do you believe AI or a family member who knows you, who knows nothing about money? Like which of the two would you prefer? And the answer came back very convincingly from the vast majority of people.

49:44Paula Pant:it is a family member that knows very little about money versus AI. But the one reason that I think is incredibly valid is no matter how empathetic AI may seem, no matter how it can explain its reasoning, the family member has some skin in the game on your success. They're related to you. They have a connection with you. And even though AI is my buddy, every time, every decision I talk to AI about, they're like, this is the best thing you could ever be thinking about. Let's explore. So I feel really good about that. But there truly is no skin in the game. Robert Farrington over at the College Investor did a huge study just a few months ago of asking AI some very basic questions to common financial problems.

50:32Paula Pant:And AI hallucinated far too often for us to be comfortable. Where I draw the line is, and this is why, Layla, I really like what you did. You asked it to challenge your thinking and to bring up other courses of action, which I think is a great use of AI. Because if we look at how AI is built, it's combing the entire universe of potential outcomes, potential solutions, things that have been written, talked about online everywhere. And it's going to pick these most likely scenarios to help you come up with a better decision. If you ask it to answer a specific question definitively, I think that's a huge mistake.

51:16Paula Pant:I think it's a monster mistake. So I like the fact that you said, hey, what could the problem be with putting money in the Roth? And the answer came back, hey, you're paying all these taxes today because of your tax rate, Paula, where if you just put it in the brokerage, you might not have that friction. and I like that answer. Well, Joe, I think what I hear you saying is when it comes to the use of AI, use it as a data point, but not as definitive truth, and also run it by people who know enough to know when it's hallucinating. Yeah. I was actually helping somebody with an estate plan a few weeks ago, just a friend.

51:54Paula Pant:I'm not a licensed financial planner anymore, but they know that I'm a guy that knows a lot about stuff, and I asked it a question about beneficial IRAs. And 100 % Paula gave me the wrong answer. Right. Well, I remember you were telling me about that because the AI interpreted the word beneficial as an adjective describing IRAs. Yes. And not as the proper noun of a specific type of IRA. There's a couple of ways to handle this. number one is to add money to the brokerage account. Number two is to look at SEPP payments and rule of 72 and calculate in this pension type device to last 10 years. That's kind of a long time for me for an SEPP payment because while it locks in an amount of money that you'll get every year.

52:49Paula Pant:There are a number of ways you can take SEPP payments where it will go up with inflation. So you can actually have that payment rise. It still locks you into a construct that, you know, who knows what's going to happen six, seven, eight years in. I like SEPP payments when we only need it for five. Well, she wants to retire at the age of 50. And really what we're solving for is from age 50 to age 59 and a half, right? So there's a nine and a half year window of time that we're solving for. Well, maybe we are. Actually, maybe it might be fewer years than that, but go ahead. Well, okay. So assuming it's nine and a half years, assuming she retires on her 50th birthday, where the window that we need to plug, the bucket that we need to fill is age 50 to age 59 and a half.

53:40A couple of things strike me. Number one, SEPP72T I think could be a good option. Number two, given that she's currently in a 35 % tax bracket and when she retires, she's going to be in a much lower tax bracket, there's the opportunity to do a Roth conversion ladder when she's in her 50s. And so I'd like to move towards that. I am still a Roth superfan, but why not Roth conversion ladder in her 50s? That will fuel the bucket of money that she can pull from when she's in her 80s. And then number three, I don't think that she really needs to have a huge taxable brokerage account. Like, I mean, yes, it's good to build out the tax triangle, but also contributions to a Roth, the contribution portion, the nominal dollar contribution she can pull out at any time.

54:31So putting money in a taxable brokerage account, you're losing the advantage of you could put that money into a Roth and still pull out the contribution at any time. So why not do that instead?

54:46Paula Pant:Well, the reason why not is because if she needs any of the return on that money, if she needs that money pre-59 and a half. Yeah, but she likely wouldn't be, and I guess it depends on the size of her SEPP 72T, but she likely wouldn't be drawing down all of her Roth contributions, right? So there would still be some portion of the contributions that could remain in those accounts in order to create tax-free earnings. There could be. And the way that you do that is that when you do this rule, this SEPP rule, what you're doing, if you're new here, Layla, what we're helping you create would be what feels like a pension payment.

55:30Paula Pant:You're allowed to take money without penalty from your retirement plans without a penalty using a specific rule we keep calling SEPP. So just to bring new people up to speed on what we're talking about. That way you don't have a 10 % penalty. you can get at the money and you're just going to pay tax on, on pre-tax accounts. You're just going to pay tax as if it were earnings today. You do it as ordinary income. So the way that you maneuver this so that you solve for the amount of money that you want to get every month from this to create the pension size you want legally, you have to use a whole IRA to do it.

56:10Paula Pant:You can't say I'm going to use half of it and SEPP it and leave the other half. It has to be a whole IRA. Now, the cool thing is you're allowed to have multiple IRAs. So you could have one at Fidelity, one at Vanguard, let's say. You take the amount you're solving for, have that amount in Vanguard, do the SEPP on that, and then the rest of your money's in a different IRA at Fidelity. So they have to be two different entities. They can be doing the same thing. They just can't be commingled together. So if you're using SEPP, you figure out how much money you need on a monthly basis, segregate that much money, put it in its own IRA, and then bam, turn on the lever and start taking money out.

56:51Layla, one thing that you said in your question, you talked about the idea behind putting money in a taxable brokerage account. You said you could potentially withdraw at a lower long-term capital gains rate around 15 % rather than paying 35 % upfront. But the thing is, if you're putting the money in a taxable brokerage account, if you're taking it as income, you're still paying taxes on that income. You're paying taxes on that income in the year in which you earn it. And then later, you'll be paying at the long-term capital gains rate on the gains that you make from those investments. So, I mean, I think there's still, you don't save taxes by virtue of putting money in a taxable brokerage.

57:31Now, what you do, what you do get is you get more flexibility. Of course, that applies to new money. So Joe and I just had a conversation behind the scenes. by the way, about part of where this answer gets a little muddy is where are we talking about new income that you're investing versus where are we talking about taking past money and recharacterizing it? Because if it's new money that you're freshly investing, you're not going to save anything by putting it in taxable brokerage. So if the AI is telling you that, then there's no savings with taxable brokerage. So new money coming from fresh paychecks, I don't see any reason why not to direct it to a Roth.

58:10Now, when it comes to past money that you already have, that's where it gets different. And that's again, where I would encourage you to opt instead for the Roth conversion ladder when you're in your 50s. But I will caveat that there's only so much that you can Roth conversion ladder at a time if you want to stay in a lower tax bracket. So even that has to be gamed out based on the amount that you want to convert. So Layla, the answer becomes different depending on if we're talking about present income versus past recharacterization. But overall, you've got a fantastic portfolio built. So congratulations.

58:51And I hope that gave you some direction on how to think through these different buckets of tax treatment. Call us back, give us an update on your progress towards your early retirement goal. And remember, the important reframing is how do we solve for a nine and a half year bucket?

59:13Paula Pant:That's the key. Yeah. Because solving for nine and a half years for age 50 to 59 and a half, that bucket specifically requires a very different plan than everything that happens from 59 and a half forward. Joe, we did it again. Three questions. Great questions too. Joe, where can people find you if they would like to know more? Oh, tonight I'm going to be hanging out at Paula Pants' fantastic webinar. So you can find me learning how to do real estate the right way. Tonight? It's at 8 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Central, 6 p.m. Mountain, 5 p.m. Pacific. I'll be there at 7 p.m. Central. That's where I'm going to be.

59:57Paula Pant:That's where you can find me. but I won't be there at 8 p.m. Eastern. Oh, you will. If you're there at 7 p.m. Central, Joe, then you'll be there at 8 p.m. Eastern. Nope, I can't do both. You'll also be there at 5 p.m. Pacific and 6 p.m. Mountain. I can't do four things, Paula. I'm going to just do the Central one. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you, Joe. I will see you there. And yes, to all of you, please come to the webinar tonight, affordanything.com slash rentals2026. Thank you to all of you for being Afforders. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share this with the people in your life. Share it with that Uber driver who is inspiring you because they are operating inside of their locus of control.

1:00:40Paula Pant:Share it with your congressperson, Vaughn. Wow. Yeah, seriously. Share it with your IRA administrator. Share it with your friend who uses Claude to ask every question. And share it with the people of New Hampshire and Massachusetts. Share it with all of those people and more because that is the single most important way that you spread the message of F-I-I-R-E. Thank you so much for being Afforders. Joe and I will both see you tonight, affordandking.com slash rentals2026. I'm Paula Pant. I'm Joe Salcihai. And we'll meet you tonight.