Q&A: When a Million Dollars Feels Like a Burden

29:01It's over 800. And we could outright buy the house, but we've decided to have the money stay in the market rather than pay down the interest that we'd have to pay. We're in a good place, but basically, I don't know the first thing about refinancing. And I have been led to believe that come June 2030, I could get whacked with something way higher than 4.875 % interest rate. We don't plan on ever selling the house. We want to basically be landlords if we ever move to a bigger place, or we might actually expand the house if we welcome some children into the family. But this is all to say that at some point, we're going to need to refinance either by the force of the end of the seven-year period or voluntarily.

29:43And I don't really know what goes into that. So do I have to use the same lender? Should I do it now? Should I do it later? Is this something that I will have to pay closing costs for if I do it now? And I would have to do it, wouldn't have to pay closing costs later. You can tell, I don't really know much about this. So hence why I'm leaving you this voicemail. Thank you so much for the podcast and all the advice. And I look forward to hearing what you have to say. This is a fabulous question, Jack. Thank you so much. And it's really great, Paul. This type of decision-making I love because we often will go to work and we'll make very pragmatic decisions on behalf of the organization we work for.

30:24And then we come home and our emotions get involved. And we really, for this question, Jack, we want to put on our CFO hat. If I'm the chief financial officer of my company, that's the way I want to think. And so the cool thing is the CFO of your family, aka you, you have a lot, a lot, lot, lot more flexibility than you may realize. Because let's say that your time runs out on the adjustable rate mortgage, seven years comes up. The critical thing that the CFO needs to know is if you do nothing, what will it adjust to? And that'll be in your contract. And often, Paula, as you already know, but a lot of our audience may not know is maybe it goes up 1 % per year until you do something or until it finds equilibrium, whatever equilibrium means, prime plus whatever the thing might be that it will adjust to.

31:24There will be a cap on how high it'll go. I want to know what that is. I want to know every year that I do nothing, what it goes to, because if you're sitting at 4.875%, you may have another year where the interest rate is higher than it is now, but it's still lower than anything else that you can get. I seriously doubt it because even if he made that move today, there may be products which will allow him to get fairly close to 4.875, but they're going to adjust very quickly. If he does an adjustable rate mortgage, Paula, that's going to adjust day after tomorrow, right? Somebody might give him some money that is at a very short timer for a lower interest rate.

32:11Basically, Jack, what happens is the longer the period is that the company is going to loan you money for, the higher the interest rate is going to be. The quicker that you're going to repay them or the more certainty they have, they're going to repay them because it's quicker, the lower that interest rate will be. So I don't know what the interest rate is today on a one-year arm. I can see the look in Paula's face. She's probably looking it up right now. But there are some adjustable rate products that are going to give you a lot of flexibility in terms of interest rate that allows you to, to use a football metaphor, punt the ball down the field, meaning delay my long-term decision-making until later because interest rates aren't where I want them to be.

32:56So in the next seven years, I don't know what's happening. I do know generally that right now interest rates are expected to lower over the short run. So I'd be paying attention to over the short run. Is there an opportunity for me to lock this in to a fixed rate product instead of the adjustable rate product that I have now? Is there an opportunity? So to answer what you just mentioned earlier, the current rate on a one-year arm, this is actually as of a couple of weeks ago. was 7.125%. Okay. And you and I know that's going to come down. Yeah, exactly. I want to take a pause here and zoom out and give a little bit of a broad lesson on how arms adjustable rate mortgages work.

33:42Let's do it. There are four variables that you need to know. The first variable is the obvious one because it's right in the name. It is what is the period of time for which the interest rate is fixed? So Jack, you've got a seven-year arm. That means for seven years, your adjustable rate mortgage is going to stay at 4.875%. So on a seven-year arm, that interest rate, it stays fixed for seven years. On a five-year arm, the rate stays fixed for five years. On a 10-year arm, the rate stays fixed for 10 years. Three-year arm, it stays fixed for three years. You get the picture. So that is one of four variables that you need to know.

34:25And that's the most obvious one because it's right there in the name. There are other three variables that every person who's considering an ARM should know. And that is the periodic increment of time that the mortgage adjusts, the amount that it can adjust per adjustment period, and that maximum cap, which Joe talked about earlier. So, for example, and this is just a hypothetical, there might be a given mortgage that adjusts once per year. And each time it adjusts, it can go up by a maximum of 2%. This is purely a hypothetical. It adjusts once a year. It adjusts 2 % per adjustment period. and it can go up to a grand total of no greater than a maximum cap of 10%.

35:17That would be a hypothetical set of variables. There's the adjustment period, there's the maximum rise per adjustment period, and then there's the overall absolute max. Those are the three variables that they're going to be written into your mortgage loan documents so you can read it right there in your loan paperwork. but anyone who's considering an adjustable rate mortgage should know all four of those variables because those four variables together piece together the full story. At any time during the next seven years and even after, once you know how much money this is going to go up by per year and what that means for your cash flow, you can make the decision based on cash flow, based on interest rate, based on whatever's going on in your family.

36:10So as an example, if you just want to delay the decision a year and get the lowest rate possible, you may do a one-year adjustable rate mortgage. There are even products that are one-year adjustable rate interest-only products, meaning you're not going to pay down any of the principal because with the difference between 7.X, what's the one-year, Paula? As of a few weeks ago, current rate on a one-year arm was 7.125%. So if you're just solving for payment and you don't like how much the payment is going up, you could do an interest-only loan. Obviously, you're not making any headway on your debt.

36:54Not my favorite product, by the way. But if you're solving for payment, you can do that. If you're solving for payoff, you can do that. If you're solving for interest rate, you can do that. So there's going to be, Jack, a lot of levers between now and then. And when you ask about lender, I think my CFO analogy, Paula, answers that question immediately. If you're the CFO of a company, I'm going to look at all different lenders. I'm always going to compare. Jack, it's a free market. You are welcome to go with any lender you want to. You have no obligation to stay with your current lender. So I think knowing that the clock is ticking for the next seven years, what I would do is this.

37:33I would pay attention to interest rates. I don't know that you're going to find 4.875 again in normal circumstances in a normal market, Paula. But we have no idea what the economy is going to look like in 2030. We don't. We don't. Maybe in 2029, we'll have a huge market crash or another pandemic or zombie apocalypse. We have no idea. But if I'm going to start making long-term decisions, where do I want to be? And I want to get away from an adjustable rate mortgage. I want to use a longer term lens of where a market's been historically. Right. And you know, a 30 year. I'm being slightly facetious with the zombie apocalypse.

38:12Yeah. I had no idea. Trying to underscore the uncertainty. We cannot predict black swan events that could throw the best laid plans out of whack. But I think over long periods of time, if we look from the 1950s, let's say to today, so that gives us 75 years ish. If you find something in the sixes that you can lock in long-term 30 year fixed, that's a good place to start making permanent decisions because anytime interest rates have gone below six, we're in a pretty extraordinary market at that point. So if your goal is to lock in a long-term interest rate and you get probably 6.5 or less, if we get to that point, then I'm making long-term decisions.

39:03Obviously, if you can afford to make a long-term decision before that, that's at a higher interest rate and buys you more time, I don't know if I do that or not. I really don't know if I would do that or not, or wait until we get closer to that seven-year mark and maybe refinance into another adjustable rate mortgage to just keep the interest rate as low as I possibly can until I'm ready to pull the trigger on a six point, whatever it might be. Yeah. He's got such a good interest rate, 4.875. That's the problem. He's got such a good interest rate. I would leave good enough alone. He could leave it alone for all seven years and probably for another, let's say it goes up by two percentage points.

39:45He could leave it alone for eight years because now he's only at 6.875. And once again, this depends on what it does to his payment and what that means for his budget, which we don't know. To your point, he has more flexibility than he thinks he has. Yeah. I would not refi out of it for the next seven years because I don't think you're going to find anything better. I don't know, Paula, because interest rates just generally over long periods of time below 6.5 % are so hard to find. Let's say that three years from now, it goes to 6.25, 30-year fixed, I may make that move because I don't know how long it's going to last.

40:23I don't know if it's going to come around again anytime soon. I don't know. And so if he can get below 6.5 % and buy more certainty, I might do that even if he's at 4.875 and he's two or three years away. Wow. That's the difference between you and me. I would not do that. I see where that's coming from based on historic trends. But if we get into an environment where interest rates start dropping, it's because the Fed is creating stimulatory activity. And that might mean a number of things. It might simply be that they have a whole lot of confidence that inflation is under control, or it might be that the economy is contracting and we're trying to pull ourselves out of a nosedive.

41:06So I would. I think we definitely, Paula, to your point, you and I are both saying right now, the Fed, the current Fed, likes to telegraph which way they're going. And I think if we get to the point that I've got a 30-year, six and a quarter ability right now, I've got that ability today. I want to look at what the Fed's kind of saying at that point as well. Because to your point, if they're saying we're either going to leave things the same or we're going to lower it, well, then I wouldn't do anything. But if we get to six and a quarter and the Fed signals that we are done lowering for the time being, then I think historically, I'm sitting in a spot where interest rates are lower than they are than the mean is historically.

41:49And they're then just looking at reversion to the mean, the next up move would be then more likely to be up than down. I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to lock at that point. So I guess I need to know where I'm Yeah, I'd be reading the Fed pretty carefully. I'd be spending a lot of time looking at economic indicators because the question is, is the Fed trying to stimulate the economy because we are heading towards a recession, in which case there's a likelihood of interest rates continuing to drop, or are we simply mean reverting? I generally, and this is you too, Paula, we generally on this show tell people, don't pretend you have a crystal ball.

42:31Don't pretend that you do. I will say this though, the Fed makes it really easy. Out of all the indicators we get, this current Federal Reserve anyway, likes to give you a roadmap of what they're thinking and where they're heading. and it isn't looking into a crystal ball, they are telling you, hey, when we meet again, we're probably going to lower. It is not like deciding where Microsoft stock's going to go next week. If you ask me where Microsoft stock's going, I have no idea. If you ask me what the Fed's going to do, I'm like, they're probably going to lower interest rates. Yeah. There are a lot of indicators that can sort of feed into that.

43:09You look at the jobs report, you look at unemployment claims, you look at - Yeah, CPI. Yeah, exactly. You look at CPI, you look at R-star. There are a lot of indicators that you can sort of pull together in order to get a much more clear picture of where interest rates are going to be headed. But I don't think he needs to worry about that until 2030. He just has such a good interest rate right now that, again, I would leave good enough alone until - I think I would not. I would look at what the Fed's doing. Anytime I have any adjustable rate product. I want to know where safety is today and what the trend is.

43:50Is it towards safety or is it away from safety? And that means in this case, interest rates going down is safer. Interest rates staying the same with the probability of trending up that I'm losing safety. And if I find that I'm losing safety, then if I'm the CFO of my company, I want to think about how dangerous it is to leave things the same. And certainly, Paula, to your point, 2030 is so far away right now. If the trend reverses in the next few months and interest rates are headed up, I'm staying right where I'm at, right? Because it's so far away. But if it's 2020, late 2028 or 2029, I'm thinking much more about what my options are to extend that clock.

44:43Part of the question, one unknowable piece of this puzzle is after those seven years expire, what is the periodic term in which his rates go up? What is the duration of that periodic term? Is it a year? Is it six months? What is it? The other question that we don't know is how much will that mortgage rate go up in that first periodic term? And then, of course, the third question we don't know is what is the absolute maximum? What's the worst case scenario? What's that cap? Those are the three questions that would also play a role in any year 2029 decision that he makes. One question that I may also ask of your current lender is, is there a possibility to recast this mortgage?

45:31And I don't see this a lot, Paula, on adjustable rate products. I see it much more often on fixed rate products. But I wouldn't not ask this question. I would definitely ask it. Recasting your mortgage means you're going to change the interest rate on the product without changing the length of the mortgage. so if he gets a favorable interest rate that he wants to lock in he may be able to have a 23-year mortgage at a fixed rate you know because he's already seven years in a 23-year mortgage so he's still on the same payment still the same payoff time frame not have to do the full refinance and sometimes the fees to get that done are much much lower so sometimes 250 350 dollars to do that versus all of the pain of a refinance.

46:18Recasting a mortgage is also a question I would ask when you're looking at all of your options. I don't think in this case he'll be able to because it's an adjustable rate product, but. I'm not familiar with recasting on an adjustable only on a fixed. Yeah, I would still ask though. I'm guessing that the duration of his adjustment is probably one year. He didn't say that he has a seven one arm, but that seems to be the most, for a seven year, that seems to be the most common. I would totally bet it's a 7-1. Yeah, but he didn't say it, so I don't want to make that assumption. But just to broaden this out for everybody, when you are looking at a mortgage, remember how earlier I said that the mortgage is described as the fixed rate period of time?

47:02So a five-year adjustable rate mortgage keeps that interest rate for five years. A seven-year mortgage, which Jack is what you have, a seven-year adjustable rate mortgage keeps it for seven years. Well, there's another number typically after that that indicates the duration of time after which it adjusts. So if it was a 7-1 arm, for example, then it's fixed rate for the first seven years. And then that duration is every one year. So for example, if a person has a 5-1 arm, then they know they've got that fixed rate for five years. And then that duration of time is every one year subsequently. If a person has a five arm, it's a duration of time fixed rate for five years, and then it adjusts every five years.

47:46Typically with a seven-year mortgage, those usually commonly come with 7-1 arms. But Jack, I don't want to make that assumption because you didn't say that it was a 7-1 arm. You said it was a seven year. And I want to be very cautious about making any assumptions that are not stated within your question. So I would absolutely check your loan documents, but I'm guessing you likely have a 7-1 arm. That is the most probabilistic answer. What we don't know, again, is how much it will adjust in any given one-year increment of time, nor do we know what that maximum cap is going to be. However, those are knowable numbers.

48:24They're in your contract. They're in your loan documents. You can just look those up. Yeah. The answers to those two questions will, I think, resolve the disagreement that Joe and I are having right now over whether, in my view, to leave good enough alone or, in Joe's view, to lock in that bird in the hand. Well, and here's what would change my mind, Paula, as an example, if it only goes up by 1%. Yeah. If it only goes up by 1 % per year in year eight, then it's at 5.875, still much better than historical averages. The next year, 6.875, still not bad. So I almost look like he's got nine years instead of seven years where that interest rate still is pretty kick-ass.

49:11When it gets to 7.875, not horrible, but not wonderful. And then certainly the next year when he's at 8.875 in most normal economic circumstances. That's above average. But not like the 80s. Yeah, it's an above average interest rate we could probably find better. Given a one percentage point maximum adjustment per year, he may have safety through year nine, maybe even 10. Yeah. So he may have a long, long time until he truly is going to be looking at doing something. And you can see then mathematically, if it's 2%. Yeah. If it's 2%, that shortens your window in terms of making a decision. At that point, I'm much more worried about certainty quicker.

49:58So Jack, and to everyone listening, I hope that was a good overview of how to think about adjustable rate mortgages. And remember the four variables that you want to look for when you are assessing any given adjustable rate mortgage, fixed duration, adjustable duration, adjustable increment, and total max. All right. Well, Jack, thank you for asking that question. And our next question also comes from you. We're going to take one more break to hear a word from the sponsors who make this show possible. And when we come back, we will have a discussion about Roth versus Trad retirement accounts. Stay tuned.

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52:03Welcome back. Our final question today comes from Jack. Hi, Paula. Jack here. I hope I have a straightforward question, and that's basically, what should I do next year 401k-wise? Should I max out the Roth 401k? Should I max out the pre-tax 401k or should I do a mix of both? If it helps, I think if I did pre-tax, it would bring us down, my wife and I, from the 32 % tax bracket to the 24%. So that's kind of the ordinary income we'd be saving, at least in the short term. Curious for your thoughts. Thanks. Okay. He doesn't know how effective tax rates work versus tax brackets. Yeah, exactly. Which is common.

52:44Jack, thank you for the question. Remember how for the adjustable rate mortgage question, There are four variables that I need to know from you in order to be able to better answer this question. Now, for this question that you've just asked, Roth versus Trad, there are a few variables that I'm going to need to know from you. And I want to expand this answer out. So for anyone who's listening who has a similar question, should I put my money into a Roth account versus a Trad account? Here are the questions that I have. Number one, do you expect that in the future your income will be substantially higher than it is today?

53:23Number two, do you expect that in the future your income will be substantially lower than it is today? For example, do you at any point in the future want to take a sabbatical in which you will have either no income or substantially lower income? Do you plan to take any time off for caregiving duties? Do you have any chronic health issues that might render you unable to work for some limited period of time? And by limited period, I mean maybe a few years at some point in the future. Do you have a simple desire to take a year off to write a book or to drive a motorcycle across Central Europe? Do you plan on moving to a different state at either in the near future or in your retirement in which your state tax bracket will be significantly different?

54:20Do you plan on amassing investments in anything that would have passed through income? So anything that has either an LLC or S-corp structure, do you plan on becoming a business partner in any of those in the future? Because that will substantially change your tax brackets. The reason that I'm asking all of this is because the fundamental question of Roth versus trad, unpacking that to answer it at an individual level hinges on your assumptions about how much you are making now relative to how much you will make in the future. Because what you're doing is you're gaming out paying taxes at your current tax bracket versus paying taxes at your future tax bracket.

55:07Now, in the absence of those answers at an individualized level, if I were to make a broad sweeping generality. In general, I think it's better to pay the taxes now and therefore to bias towards Roth accounts. And the reason that I think that is because in general, and again, I'm just speaking in generalities, most people tend to have income that goes up over time. Now, again, there's asterisk. If you know you have a chronic health condition, that's probably going to render you unable to work for a five-year increment of time starting in the year 2030, that's a different story. But in general, most people tend to have income that goes up over time, meaning your tax bracket will be higher over time.

55:59Most people tend to amass greater investments as they age, which means that you likely are going to have higher income through LLCs and S-corps, a higher pass-through income from private ownership and businesses in the future than you do today? And then the part that we haven't addressed yet, but that is absolutely unknowable, what are your assumptions about where the government is going to set tax rates? If you assume that the government will raise taxes in the future, that's yet another reason to bias towards Roth accounts today. And the reason that I'm emphasizing how much of this hinges on assumptions is if you know that you are going to move to Puerto Rico or to Dubai, that's going to change the answer.

56:47If you know that you're going to be geo arbitraging into a place where your tax brackets are going to dramatically change, it changes the story. But in the absence of planning to move to Puerto Rico and also planning around a chronic health condition and a few sabbaticals, In the absence of that, I would bias towards a Roth. That's always generally my bias as well with regard to the government. If we think that at some point the government is going to begin addressing the debt, it's just mathematics that tax rates will go up to address the debt. They have to go up to address the debt. If we think that there's going to be another avenue that magically appears, then that may be poor.

57:33But I do like the fact that at the end of the day, Paula, this is an assumptions answer. And you have to know what the assumptions are because when you assume something is always going to go differently than what you assumed, and then you'll be able to know the extent of the course correction you'll have to make to make up for what the change is versus what you assumed, which I like knowing what that delta would be if I assume incorrectly. But generally speaking, I'm with you. My bias is toward the Roth, and then you will talk me toward the traditional 401k, given what your circumstances are. And Jack, also, when you said that your tax bracket will go up, one thing that a lot of people don't understand, I don't know if you understand it or not, but your tax going into the next tax bracket is not the huge tax burden that a lot of people think that it is.

58:30I have had married couples, Paula, back when I was an advisor that would come to my office and they would explain to me that one family member works and the other one stays home because all of the money that the person makes who's staying home would be at the higher tax bracket. And they did the math and all that money would go toward taxes. So it doesn't make sense. And I would answer, I have great news for you. Right. You get to go to work. Right. Because tax brackets are incremental. So if we start with the lowest bracket, that fills up at the lowest rate. And then starting with the next dollar, that next dollar gets taxed at the higher rate.

59:14So if he said the words 24 and 26, that means the very next dollar is at the 2 % higher rate. Right, exactly. So if you imagine your money as a tiered pyramid, the base of that pyramid, or I guess depending on how much you make, it could be an inverted pyramid. But the base of that pyramid has money that is taxed at the lowest possible rate. dollar number one that you make, no matter who you are, no matter what tax bracket you're in, dollar number one is taxed at the lowest possible rate. And so it isn't as though you cross some threshold and all of your money is magically taxed at this higher amount.

1:00:02It's that those incremental dollars are taxed at a higher rate. So think of it as a tiered system. in which this tier of money or this bucket of money has a given tax rate. And this other bucket of your money has another tax rate. And this other bucket of your money has a different tax rate. And so when people say I'm in the X tax bracket, that number, that X that they're referring to is a reference to the sliver of their money that has the highest rate. What we're really concerned about is what your effective tax rate is. And that's very easy. You go to last year's tax return to find out what it was last year.

1:00:47You take the amount of money that you paid in tax, which will be at the bottom of the back page for most people on their 1040, and look at the top line income that you had come in, which is at the top of the first page. Joe, I want to lay out a little bit about why I bias towards the Roth and why when answering this question in generalities, my typical answer is use a Roth account unless there is a very specific reason not to. I can tell you mine then too. Oh, okay. All right. All right. Well, I've got two. We'll see if either of these steal your thunder. One of them is because you then are locking in a lifetime of tax-exempt growth.

1:01:34So all dividends, all capital gains, all the growth for the remainder of your life is completely tax-exempt. And given the power of compounding, given how much that money is going to grow, and of course, the younger you are slash the longer you expect your life expectancy to be, the more that money is going to compound, right? The greater the timeline on that investment, the more compounding you have, there's an enormous power to having a tax exemption on all of that compounded cumulative growth. So the math of that is one very powerful reason. So that's one of my two reasons. The other of my two reasons is because a Roth account functionally allows you to make greater contributions.

1:02:23So think about it like this. Let's say that you have$7 ,000 and you are either going to put$7 ,000 into a Roth IRA or you're going to put$7 ,000 into a traditional IRA. It sounds as though you're contributing the same amount of money and you're just trying to decide, do I put the$7 ,000 into a Roth versus traditional account? But what is actually happening is that a greater percentage of your money is getting invested because by virtue of putting that$7 ,000 into a Roth account and paying income tax on that$7 ,000, a greater amount of your money is going towards the funding of that contribution.

1:03:09There's the$7 ,000 contribution itself, plus there's the amount of money that you use to pay the tax bill. And so by virtue of taking that same$7 ,000 and choosing to put it in a Roth account instead of a traditional account, you are functionally making a greater contribution. And as we all know, it is the size of your contributions that is the single biggest determinant of your lifetime returns. Yeah, I love both of those. my favorite way to look at the Roth advantage takes your first example, but restates it differently. Ooh, let's hear it. Which is when you make a traditional 401k contribution, every dollar that makes, you are splitting with your uncle in Washington.

1:04:01And it's not even your real uncle is. Uncle Sam. Ed Slott says, yeah, not even my real uncle. So, but I got to split it with them. So as I make money, I'm taking the government along for the ride. And the better I do, the more, the better Washington does. And don't get me wrong. I want to pay my fair share, but with a Roth, Paula, and this is again, just a restatement of what you said, but I like the imagery of this. When I put money in the Roth, a dollar in the Roth, any money that dollar makes is a hundred percent mine. It is 100 % mine. Assuming that I follow the rules of the Roth, right? When I can take it out, how I can take it out.

1:04:36And they're very simple rules, but assuming that I just followed the simple Roth rules, it's all mine forever. And then what I like about that is we talked about all of the assumptions, all the assumptions that we make around the tax brackets and tax rates, those are all fine. But when I know that it's mine 100%, the only thing that I truly am betting on is that the rules are going to stay the same with respect to the fact that the government is not going to tax this in the future. So that's my feeling about the Roth and why I'm biased toward the Roth. And it certainly makes tax planning in retirement a heck of a lot more fun.

1:05:19Because you get to look at the bucket of money and be like, this is all mine. So much easier. So much easier. Which is another reason the government also has all these provisions that allow you to use the Roth IRA for college. And I will often meet people that will say, you know, I don't like the 529 because what if my kids don't go to college? So I'm going to use the Roth as my college plan. I do not like that because I like, don't get me wrong, I like the rules around college with the Roth, but I like the retirement planning so much better with the Roth. I would rather find a different means to pay for college and to do any of your college planning, short-term planning, whatever the planning is.

1:06:04Leave that Roth money for later in life because you're really going to high-five yourself that you simplified everything. Right. So, Jack, there's your answer. We both are big fans of the Roth. I would default Roth unless you have a good argument for something else. Yeah. And if you do have fun, enjoy your move to Puerto Rico. Woo. And apparently Paula, we do know Jack, maybe a little. Ooh, we do know Jack. Look at that. All right. Well, Joe, when you're not drinking civet poop coffee. Delicious. Where can people find you? You will find me Paula at the Stacky Benjamins podcast. You know what's going on this week?

1:06:48What's going on? We are playing some of our top mentors, top guests from past episodes. So for people that have never heard the Stacky Benjamin show, we're going Monday through Friday with some of our favorite episodes. So come join us because it's a fun week. You're having a greatest hits week. It is a greatest hits week this week. Greatest hits week. Those are fun. Super fun because we get to pick some of the ones that don't get me wrong. I think we always have some great guests that bowl us over, but the ones that really maybe go, wow, we're playing this week. So come find them at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

1:07:25Oh, beautiful. Well, and thank you for tuning in to the Afford Anything podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please do three things. Number one, share it with a friend or a family member. That's the most important thing you can do to spread the message of having strong financial health. Number two, subscribe to our newsletter, affordanything.com slash newsletter. And number three, make sure that you are following us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and any other favorite podcast player you may have. Thank you again for tuning in. I'm Paula Pant. I'm Joe Salcihai. And we will meet you in the next episode.