Q&A: Which Investments Should Go Into Which Accounts?

28:18During retirement years, and we're both assuming, Jack, that this is not your question, but during retirement years, I just don't start from here. My goal is to start with the strategy that is an all-weather portfolio that I can be assured that I'm going to do the least damage to my portfolio when I'm taking money out. And then step two is I'm going to make that as tax efficient as possible. And that's going to change from person to person. And we covered that on a previous episode much more in depth, but I go back and listen to that, our discussion about how to set that up. I should say that as we have this discussion over Jack's asset location, we don't know the size of each of these positions.

28:59And we don't know what his ability or his desire is to switch money around between different types of accounts. We're talking about three assets, one of which is VTSAX, VTI, one of which is Total International, and one of which is this Fidelity Fund, which is a large growth fund. So we're talking in broad strokes about three different types of investments and three different types of accounts. But we're having this discussion without knowing how much he can place in each account. So we're having the discussion broadly in a manner that assigns one-to-one. And so to your point, Joe, to the extent that he can split some of these up, that's even better.

29:37But I think to start, since his question was about asset location, we start with this initial framework of one-to-one. Just to get a sense of all else being equal. We like this type of asset in this type of account. We'll start with pairing the puzzle pieces together. Red pairs with blue, yellow pairs with green. We'll start with just pairing these together. And then to the extent that you can split that. We'll fancify it. Yeah. And now red pairs with mostly blue, but a smidge of green. Yellow pairs with mostly green, but a smidge of purple. So I say that just to be clear that we're not advocating only holding one type of asset and one type of account.

30:17It's just an initial framework in order to establish the preferences. Thank you, Jack, for the question. Joe, you've developed a bit of a reputation on this show for being Mr. Efficient Frontier. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's true. It's true. And we were talking earlier about the term efficient frontier can be a little off-putting to a beginner. A little? Oh, yeah, a lot. A Fish in Frontier. Yeah. Feels weighty, right? It's horrible. Right? I listen to anybody talking about A Fish in Frontier and I immediately go, oh man, oh, that sounds complicated. Exactly. Exactly. It sounds off-putting. It's a terrible name.

30:57But once you grasp the concept, it's not nearly as difficult. Exactly. It's a beautiful concept with a terrible name. But anyway, our next question is about the A Fish in Frontier. Exactly. That is what we're going to address coming up right after this.

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31:58This Friday, the NBA on Prime tips off with their debut doubleheader. First up, Boston brings the action to the Garden as the Celtics face the New York Knicks. Then out west, it's a battle of the superpowers as the Lakers try to poster the relentless pace of the Minnesota Timberwolves. The Celtics and Knicks, who has the most hustle in defense? This game will come down to who wants it more. And the Timberwolves and the Lakers, it's two Western Conference heavyweights going toe-to-toe. Buckle up, folks. This one's going to be electric. Celtics-Knicks. T-Wolves and Lakers. Coverage starts Friday, 7 o 'clock Eastern, only on Prime.

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33:20Welcome back. Our final question today comes from Anonymous.

33:27Good morning, Paula and Joe. I just want to ask a question related to the Efficient Frontier. I know you've covered a lot about it, and I've been trying to figure out how to merge the Efficient Frontier with the TSP-37s plan for the government, employees, and military. We only have a very limited amount of funds or ETFs, equivalent funds that we can invest in. And I can't seem to find anything or any way to reduce risk without reducing the return significantly by combining the C fund, the F fund, and the I fund. Basically, we have a fund that tracks the S &P 500. We have a fund that tracks international, except for China.

34:28And we have a fund that tracks small cap. The C fund would be the S &P 500. The S would be the small cap. And the I would be international. I tried going in through the efficient frontier, as Joe showed and suggested, and couldn't figure out how it could possibly improve. I currently have 16 in the C fund, 20 in the I fund, and 20 in the S fund, and believe that's a pretty good mix. but wanted to ask you guys, how would you suggest or how would you see about evaluating the correct mix of these funds in order to approach a more efficient outcome? Thank you. All right, Paula, we want to have some fun?

35:22Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Step one, we got to give Anonymous a name. Oh, we do. You got one? So the concept of the efficient frontier came from a guy by the name of Harry Markowitz. Oh, this is great. I like where you're going. I think it'd be very funny if Harry was asking us questions about how to do his thing. So Harry Markowitz is an economist who in 1952 won the Nobel Prize for his development of modern portfolio theory. And the efficient frontier is a big cornerstone of modern portfolio theory, the thing for which he won the Nobel Prize. In the Efficient Frontier, there's a graph, there's a hyperbola, and that hyperbola is actually referred to as the Markowitz bullet.

36:11So in honor of Harry Markowitz, who developed the Efficient Frontier and modern portfolio theory, I'd like to name this caller Harry. I love that. Yeah. How do you use my thing? How do you use the thing I developed? That's fantastic. So do we want to do this live, Paula? Let's do it. Let's do it. So for those of you who are listening via audio, I'd encourage you to check out the YouTube video of this because we're going to be showing some images on screen that walk you visually through the efficient frontier. So tune into the video. It's on YouTube, youtube.com slash afford anything. So if you are walking the dog or out on a jog, whatever it might be, I'll just describe what we're doing.

36:57So the first thing you do, you go to portfoliovisualizer.com. And as always, if you remember, there's a big green button over here on the left that says get started. We do not want to go there. Ignore it. Ignore the button. You can use it later for other things. It's a great website, but we're not going there. We're going up to the upper right where there's a button that says tools. We're going to click that dropdown. We're going to go right down here to Efficient Frontier, and we're going to click that. And it brings us to our configuration. Now, this is where Harry is going to input the things that are available in the Thrift Savings Plan, the plan that he uses through the government.

37:35Very simple plan is going to make this very easy to look at the efficient frontier. So the first thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to click up at the top. It says portfolio type. It defaults to tickers. We do not want to use ticker symbols. we want to use just asset classes because the Thrift Savings Plan choices, I, S, and C that he's going to put into his configuration, those three choices are just really straight indexy kind of choices. So we're going to just do the asset classes. The second thing that we're going to do is then we're going to select the asset class. So the C fund is US large cap.

38:18The I fund is International XUS. There we go. And then the S fund is small cap. So I put those in. So for those of you who are listening via audio, Joe just selected those off of a dropdown menu. Yeah. There's a bunch of different asset classes and I just chose those three because those are all that are available. So here's what the software does. What I just told it is, I don't want you to give me actual funds. I want you to give me the asset class. And the I is an asset class. The S is an asset class because small companies. The I is international companies and the C is big companies. So I just told it, just look at those three and make it as efficient as you possibly can.

39:05Historically from 1985 on is what this says going back up to the top. There's a dropdown for start year. It put 1985. You know what, Paula? Just for fun, let's move that. Let's see if it'll give us data all the way back to 1972. Because if it will give us longer term data, that's going to be even better. Because it's just more... Yeah, more data. Yeah, a lot of different markets to look at. Who doesn't like more data? Here we go. So I'm going to click down at the bottom. There's a button that says view. I'm going to click view. And there it is. Now, he said right now he is 60-20-20. And so here is the efficient frontier.

39:45So we have this kind of arcing line. It doesn't arc a ton because we're just using three asset classes. We're not using any bonds. So it's going to start off at a fairly high rate of return and then go up. But if I peg this at looking for an 11 % historical rate of return, there it is. he's going to be 78 % U.S. large cap and 21 % international. So it's going to be closer to 80-20 and get rid of the small cap altogether. And by the way, the reason for this is also interesting that even though this goes back to 1986, we put in 1972, but one of these Portfolio Visualizer only has data from 1986.

40:31So it will default to the closest year to today for whatever asset classes we look at. So I want to make sure what I'm looking at. So this is 86 to 2025. That's as far back as this goes. And as I've said before, this is a limitation of this particular program is that they have limited data sets. All the data sets for all these different asset classes. Don't go back as far as I would like. However, this is going to get me in the ballpark. And so if I look at an 11 % rate of return, there it is 78 and 22%. Now, what's also interesting about this is this, even though it's 86 to 2025, I really like the idea of having three funds instead of having two.

41:21CFPs will tell you that for better diversification might not have been historically as efficient, but the case for small cap value, you can look at some of the research done by Paul Merriman and others. The small cap value is worth being in. Right. So it doesn't give it to me on the efficient frontier. It tells me, don't be there. and I go, you know what? I want to be there. So what I can do is I can go back up to the top. So I'm going to flip back up to where I originally put in those three asset classes. You're going to put in a minimum allocation, aren't you? And I'm going to say, let's say, give me at least 10 % small cap.

42:01Now I could make that 20, but realize the more I tell it, it has to do, it's already telling me this is not as efficient as it could be. But I'm going to tell it, let's go 10 and I'm going to view. So you put in 10 % minimum. And now notice if I use just large cap, it's telling me it's above the efficient frontier. I get it. I get it. I understand why because I hardwired it. And now I pretty much at that 11 % return number. Now I'm at 70, 2010. So I would say already, Harry, you clearly are not that far off. 70-20-10 is what I would probably use. And you're at 60-20-20. So the answer is you are pretty damn close.

42:44And the cool thing is using the science-backed approach of the Efficient Frontier, I think you can high five yourself and go, are you comfortable leaving it there? Sure. If you want to put in 20%, which would be hardwired, I'm now going to change that 10 to 20. I'm going to go back in and look at the three of these together. and at 11%, it's telling me 60-20-20. It's telling me exactly what you have. So the answer is, we can get there, Harry, doing what you asked. This is verified that you're pretty damn close. So here's a question, Joe. In Harry's case, he has limitations on the asset classes that he can invest in.

43:24What would a person do if they are invested in Vanguard where they have just a wide array of asset classes that they can choose from. Sure. Then I go back to what we did during our training. And hopefully, Paula, you can link to that. But what I generally like is large value, large growth. Instead of just large cap, to use both of those, let's put a mid-value, mid-growth, small value, small growth. We're going to put in commodities. I can use commodities, precious metals, or gold. Of those three, I can use any of the three I want. I'm going to go with commodities. Simply because it's the biggest, widest, widest ranging.

44:02It is the widest ranging, but that will include gold and precious metals. We're going to put in real estate in the form of a REIT. And then I'm going to put in, of course, my international developed XUS. And then I'm going to put in emerging markets. And in other places, by the way, you can see, we can get as granular as we want. In other places, I've said that you could just use eight different choices because a lot of people here will take out commodities and they'll just use international by itself instead of international and US markets. And then you have eight. I will often default to nine because I love emerging markets myself.

44:39So I'll put those in as a different asset class. And then I will use the long-term treasury market, corporate bonds, and high yield bonds, because high yield bonds will act like a hybrid between stocks and bonds. So where's my high yield corporate bonds? There it is. And now I have 13 asset classes, which is generally the widest that I get. Oh, but 13 is an unlucky number, Joe. Oh, no. What about total international? So I'm curious as to why you chose international developed ex-US rather than total international, which includes US. Because I've already got US up here with large cap, mid cap, and small cap.

45:14I've already taken in the US market and I've parsed it out to be six things that I don't want to overlap. Cool. I want to keep my meat from touching my potatoes. All right, here we go. And now I view, now it says I've repeated large cap growth. Where have I done that? Oh, I accidentally did that. I like that it pointed that out. So let's go mid cap growth, mid cap value. There we go. Now I've got it right. And we click the button and now look at what we've got. Look at that. A much more robust graph. And if I go up here to the same spot, 11 % return, 77 % large cap growth, 23 % treasuries. That's a big treasury allocation.

45:58But what's interesting, Paul, you know how you like the barbell? Yeah. It's telling us barbell's efficient. Barbell's a great way to go. Stick with U.S. growth as your driver of growth. and then during the downtimes use the treasuries. Now, of course, a CFP looks at that and goes, I'm not going to bet everything on large cap growth. And I know that the US market by a lot of different factors right now is pretty heated. What this is also telling me though, that the last 10 years are factored in. So a CFP will then begin putting in a few minimums on some of these.

46:37So I can go to the developed markets and maybe put in international developed markets and put in a 20. Emerging markets, I like a number that's either five or 10. I'm going to add in those. You can, again, do whatever you want. Back when I was designing portfolios professionally, I actually found that we got a calmer ride by even putting 5 % commodities into the market. 5 % gold. I hate gold as an asset class, but it really calmed down the portfolio. Karsten Big Earn, he, in his safe withdrawal rate series, did a study on what would happen if you added gold to your portfolio. His bias was that he thought it would make it worse.

47:19That was his hypothesis going in. And it actually turned out it made it better. If you want to read that, it's Karsten's safe withdrawal rate, article number 34 on the safe withdrawal rate series. And here you'll see, it gives me an efficient frontier that really rides those guardrails, 2010, 10. Now we're down to 15 % treasuries and 40 % large cap, but a much more rounded out, less bumpy ride. If you look at the standard deviation on this portfolio, however, standard deviation goes down, but look what else went down. The expected return went way down. Yeah. Joe, on this hyperbola, the Markowitz hyperbola that we're looking at, what portion of the hyperbola do we want to be on?

47:58Great question. We want to begin with the end in mind. So for me, starting with an 8 % return or a 9 % return versus the more delicious 11, really for me is a better place to be. But part of that's because I'm 57 years old, right? If I was younger, I would go higher up. But I think if I start with what return do I want to set my goal at and then work from there, backward, I think is the way to be. So before I hit the efficient frontier, I go, you know what? I'm looking for eight. And then I go to eight and I see what eight gives me. So I don't begin with efficient frontier. I begin with my financial plan and what rate of return.

48:40Because if you remember, for people that have heard me talk before about this, there are three different levers that I have. Lever number one is how much money am I going to save? Lever two is what return do I expect that money to earn? Lever three is how much money do I need for the goal? And I can adjust either any of those levers. And frankly, part of that, how much money do I need is also the timing of the goal, right? So I can push the timing back on that goal. I can pull it forward. That's going to make me need to save more aggressively or get a higher rate of return. I could lower the amount that I need overall.

49:17I'm only going to buy X house versus Y house that was bigger. I'm going to lower what the goal expectation was, or I raise the goal. I can save more. I can save less. I can look for a higher return or a lower return. And each of those have problems, right? If I raise the amount that I need to save, then I'm living on less today. And it truly is about, I don't know if I'm going to show up 20 years from now. Why am I going to save all my money for a future that I don't know is going to exist? When it comes to the return portion, if I set my expectation at 10, look at the standard deviation goes up, which means there's a bigger chance I won't get that.

49:54I'm throwing darts at a much wider dartboard that I am as I go down the efficient frontier. My standard deviation is less and less and less. So there it is. The efficient frontier in action. Actually, what it shows me is that Harry is not wrong. Harry, you're not far off. You're very close to what I would do. I would be more of a 70-20-10, but 60-20-20. Yeah. Okay. Great. Joe, conceptually, as we look at this graph, and again, for those of you who are listening via audio, I encourage you to check out the YouTube video. Joe, visually, as we look at this graph, if there are some asset classes that are above the efficient frontier, others are below the efficient frontier, what does it mean for an asset class to be above or below this hyperbola?

50:44left to its own devices without any input from my hand. If I just put everything in the Efficient Frontier, Paula, no asset class is above the Efficient Frontier. There is no such thing. So if I just let the software do what it will do, they'll all be below. The only time you will see an asset above the Efficient Frontier is when I've put, nope, I want a minimum weight like we did of 10 % into small cap. I'm telling the software to do that. When the software then gives me back then a return that shows something then in that graph above the efficient frontier, it's literally the software going, in this case, it truly is literal.

51:25The man's holding me down. The man being Joe Salcihai is holding me down because the software is telling me, I think this historically has been more efficient if you didn't do the small cap or if you didn't do the international to that degree or the bonds or whatever it is. But CFP is looking at reversion of the mean, looking at point in time, looking at a safer withdrawal strategy, because we'll look at other things, not just efficiency as we get closer to retirement. And so as we put these constraints in, it literally, in this case, is saying the man's holding me down. Joe's holding me down.

52:03So functionally, if something's above the efficient frontier, it means it could be more efficient. It could be that, but by virtue of putting in these additional weights, we're not getting to that most efficient place. By contrast, when something is below the efficient frontier, it fundamentally means the returns just aren't commensurate with the risk. This is inefficient. And the ones that scare me the most are when they're inefficient and right on the graph, because it means I'm getting a lot more volatility and I'm getting risk that isn't worth the risk. And commodities there, right? And commodities are both far on the right side of the graph, but below the line of the efficient frontier.

52:41And it's interesting because if you look long-term, if you take REITs long-term, the North American Real Estate Index and the S &P 500, they're not that different. Which goes back to when I first introduced this on your lovely show, Paula, that the S &P 500 left to its own devices is not that efficient. The VTSAX, not that efficient. It's when you pair it with other assets that you start getting some pretty exciting results. It's funny because I love analogies. And I remember when I was in this wine tasting class and this guy, Vincent, who owned the local wine shop, taking us through it. And he was a wonderful teacher.

53:19Vincent said, you know, this idea that drink whatever wine you want with whatever food, everybody's always, oh, pair this with this. And then there was that backlash, people going, just drink whatever the hell you want. Forget about all this. He goes, that backlash is BS. And he took a glass of wine and I don't remember what wine it was because I'm not an expert. He took a glass of wine and then he gave us a green grape and he had us drink the wine with a green grape and the wine tasted awful, Just 100 % awful. And then he gave us a blue cheese with that same wine. And I ate the blue cheese then with that wine.

53:59And the wine was flipping amazing. It was incredible. It was so good. And I think that's what with Frank Vasquez and his obsession with risk parity, it's all about this combination of food groups, in this case, asset classes that together create this great stuff, but other asset classes together are horrible. An example, people think that stocks and bonds together make the portfolio less correlated. Stocks and bonds have a fair amount of correlation still to each other. They're not necessarily negatively correlated. So we saw this in 2007, and 2008, right? When the stock market and the bond market both fell at the same time.

54:44Now, what's interesting is that there's a much more negative correlation with the commodities market, which is why a little bit of commodities is like a nice calming factor. This is actually a great analogy because gold, eight times more volatile in an average day than the stock market. But you put a little bit of gold into a stock portfolio like we talked about earlier, Paula, it calms it down. Left to its own devices, it's not calm at all. But paired with a stock portfolio, your overall number on the top line gets smoother. It's fascinating how you can put these things together in a way that makes sense.

55:24Just like Vincent said, do whatever you want. I feel like VTSAX is that. Do whatever you want. The experts will go, don't do whatever you want. And you told me, Joe, a sad story about someone who had been with his financial advisor, invested along the efficient frontier, but then heard all of the media, the Reddit threads. In this case, it was the online communities. Yeah. People saying two things. Favorite thing people do in online communities is go, fire your financial advisor. If you say the two words financial advisor in an online forum, there will be 10 people that immediately say fire them.

56:04Immediately say fire them. Not even asking you, are they good, bad, they whatever, fire them. And the straw man argument they bring up is you're smart enough to do this yourself. And I want to be clear, you are smart enough to do this yourself. They are not wrong. They are not at all wrong. But when I was a financial planner, the through line that I noticed of smart people was they surrounded themselves with really smart people. Every athlete has a coach. It is so amazing. Just surround yourself with smart people is a life guideline. It doesn't have to be a CFP where you're paying them a bajillion dollars and they're investing.

56:39Just surround yourself with smart people. So the idea of financial advisor, fire them because you're smart enough. That's not a reason to fire them. Now, there may be plenty of reasons to fire them, but the fact that you're smart enough is not the argument. Of course you're smart enough. And then the second thing that they say is your portfolio is too complex. Just go read The Simple Path to Wealth and VTSAX. And my response to that is VTSAX is a wonderful place to be when you're not dealing with a lot of money. When you're not dealing with much money, it's a beautiful place to be. there are significant repercussions to being in VTSAX later, AKA you're losing a ton of money with almost no more work.

57:27And look at how quickly I went in and looked at Harry's asset allocation on the efficient frontier. There is a learning curve. Somebody online was busting me saying, this is very complicated. It took Joe a while to explain it. Yes, it does. It's like driver's training. takes several weeks. But once you know how to drive a car, you just jump in and go. So I agree with the person. They're like, no, this is more complicated than Joe's making it because it took him forever to explain how it works. Yes. Correct. But once you know how it works, look how quickly I went, nope. You know what, Harry, you got it.

58:01You're good. You are close enough that science has proven you very right. Well, then can I ask a couple of additional follow-up questions? Oh boy, no. I think our time is up. That's all the time for questions we had.

58:17So this is a question. It actually came in the form of a comment, but one person asks, so if you are rebalancing your portfolio along the efficient frontier, would that be 36 separate transactions across our family's accounts? So in other words, do you rebalance by individual account? Do you balance by total sum across all accounts? Do you have to make tons and tons of different transactions when you have, let's say - I think it's the same comment, Paula. I think it's just a person that was telling me how complicated it really is. Yeah, because I read this one as well. And the answer is you can.

58:55If you decide to do this rebalance where you have a different efficient frontier in every single account, well, then certainly. Clearly, that's never been what I'm about. I'm about simplicity. right? And so if you're in asset accumulation years, then I'm going to take that efficient frontier and then I'm going to answer Jack's question. And I'm going to look at these different asset classes and go, what goes where, right? Where am I going to put them based on how I'm saving? And I'm going to put some here. I'm going to put some here. I'm going to put some there. And when I reallocate, I'm going to look at all these accounts and I'm going to try to keep my portfolio as simple as possible.

59:35So if the efficient frontier is a long, if I'm using 13 different asset classes, notice it didn't spit out 13. It didn't spit out 13 different things. It still spit out like five. And by the way, when the efficient frontier gives me something that says you should have three quarters of 1 % in small cap growth, I don't need to be that efficient. I get rid of that and I add it to another area. I also don't do 0.75 or 16.75. I go 17, call me crazy. Or I might even go even crazier and go 15 or 20. You round it to the nearest whole number or you round it to the nearest five. Yes. I want to be close.

1:00:15I do not have to be incredibly scientifically specific because the efficient frontier drifts every year anyway. As we get new data, it drifts. Right now, Now, as everybody knows, we talked about this before. If you've listened to us, you know that large cap growth has been driving the bus for the last 10 years. And so this Efficient Frontier tool defaults to as much large cap growth as you possibly can, which is why we put in some minimum weights. Because we're already seeing this year some reversion to the mean, right? With large cap growth doing worse and international funds finally showing up.

1:00:49Where have you been international? but now notice what the efficient frontier is showing us now that it didn't show us a few months ago. Hey, you're better off having a little bit of international. The answer to that is you're going to end up with five, maybe six categories. If you're in retirement, you may have more because of the fact that you're doing these separate buckets. But the answer is, yes, you can. And I think they're using hyperbole is when they're talking about the number of different transactions. 36 transactions? Yeah. I guess depending on how many, let's say you've got six different accounts with six funds in each account, say a married couple.

1:01:29So each individual has three accounts with six funds per account. So there's a total of 36. And my rebalancing is not going to include every single one of those. Because what you're also going to find is when I rebalance, I need to rebalance my large cap by let's say 5 ,000 bucks. I need to add or subtract. I'm just going to add or subtract it in whichever account makes the most sense. So I'm going to subtract it in this account. Guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to rebalance in that same account then into the other fund. So while I may have 36 different accounts, I'm only actually making the transaction in two.

1:02:07Right. You mean you've got 36 funds, but you're only making the transaction in two of the accounts. Yeah, because rebalancing does not mean that I'm going to have transactions in every single account. I'm going to do the rebalancing in just one place. It's a great question. And I saw that online and I think it was on Apple Podcasts, which frustrates the hell out of me because it's the one place I can't reply. We can reply on Spotify, which I love. We have great discussions for Stacking Benjamins on Spotify. People write to me. That's crazy talking to the person, but people write to me, Joe at Stacking Benjamins, and ask me these questions.

1:02:43When I see it in our different online forums in the Afford Anything Facebook group, I've answered people directly there. Apple's the one place I cannot answer your concern. And while you and I are different, Joe, in that you're very good at checking social media, I'm mostly off of social media. Good for you. That doesn't mean I'm good. That means I'm tortured. Because OG's done the same thing. He is largely done. Yeah, yeah. I stay off of social media for the sake of my focus, my mental health, my ability to work. But I do value it as a place to interact with the community. There's limits to what I can and can't do.

1:03:24And I have chosen to mostly stay off of social media these days. Yeah. And I truly enjoy the one-on-one interactions. I frankly don't like Apple because I can't have a conversation with you. I just have to read it and go, man, I wish that you would have put this someplace where we could have a chat because this sounds like somebody that really wants to chat with me about what I really meant. But I do the feedback. I like the fact that I wasn't as thorough as maybe I should have been. And maybe I should have explained this or used an analogy differently. So I like the feedback. I just like that I can't help you.

1:04:00I'm not as worried about people kicking me. Yeah. When you're in the public eye, that happens a lot. Yeah, when you do what we do, okay, people are going to do whatever. But when I saw a comment like that, that I can clearly help you do this better, and I can't because of the forum that it's in, that's when I get frustrated. So I want to be clear. I am happy for people to say they don't like me. That's fine. Well, I'm not happy. But you get what I mean. Well, I like you, Joe. Thank you. That's why I keep showing up. And I think what we're both trying to do is introduce the notion of the efficient frontier to an audience in a way that communicates that diversification in your portfolio is important.

1:04:47And just VTSAX alone is not going to give you that diversification. And this really beginner process of getting comfortable with the efficient frontier can show you some cool things. Look at for Harry. Harry didn't say it this way, but Harry's, I think I'm close. Can you help me? And the answer is, yeah, you're really close. Yes. Yeah. Which is great. It's a great feeling. And I love this when I was a financial planner, when somebody would walk in and I'd be able to say, you're doing a really great job. And sometimes people would go, you know what? I studied this and I worked really hard. And in other times it was a complete freaking accident, but either way, it's awesome.

1:05:22Yeah. It's fantastic. Joe, thank you for taking all of this time. And thank you for being Mr. Efficient Frontier as you've become known. Yeah. If we could just get rid of those two effing words. All right, Joe, where can people find you if they'd like to know more? You can find me and sometimes the Paula Pant at the Afford Anything Show. We call it the greatest money show on earth. It's a great... I think it's called the Stacking Benjamin Show, Joe. Did I call it the Stacking... Did I call it the Afford Anything Show? You sure did. Oh my God, that's funny. I'm taking over so you can find me here and it is now my channel.

1:05:55It's the Stacking Benjamin Show, the greatest money show on earth. And we call it that because of the fact that we try to surprise and delight you because it's a little bit of a financial circus there. Everything from some great mentors, some of the top minds in the business. We've had a lot of the Ritholtz people talking about financial planning, Josh Brown and Barry Ritholtz himself, Nick Majuli on the show. Some of the greatest minds in the personal finance media space, Jill Schlesinger, Gene Chatzky, some of the big time people there. but also just great conversations on our roundtable discussions on Friday and a little bit deeper dive on Monday with Doug and my co-host OG.

1:06:34So come check us out. Fantastic. And thank you to all of you for being afforders. Remember, we have a free cheat sheet based on the answers that we gave in today's episode that you can download. It lays out exactly what you need to do to rebalance in the right spots. It's the asset location made simple cheat sheet and it is yours for free at affordanything.com slash asset location. That's affordanything.com slash asset location. If you enjoyed today's episode, please do three things. First, share this with the people in your life. Share it with your financial planner, your wealth manager, your lawn mowing and landscaping services people, your lifeguard at the local community pool.

1:07:21Your TIAA representative. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that annuities person. Share it with them. Share it with your dentist. Share it with the person who sells you dental insurance. Share it with all of those people. That is the single most important way that you spread the message of F-I-I-R-E. Number two, please open up your favorite podcast playing app. Leave us a review. Tell us what you enjoy about the show. As you can tell, we read all of these and really take them to heart. So please leave us a review on your favorite podcast player. And while you're there, make sure that you've hit the follow button so you don't miss any of our amazing upcoming shows.

1:07:58And, of course, subscribe to our newsletter, affordanything.com slash newsletter, where we share deep dives that you won't find anywhere else. Thank you so much for being an Afforder. I'm Paula Pant. I'm Joe Salcihai. And we'll meet you in the next episode.