Rachel Rodgers: This Multimillionaire Started With $330,000 in Debt and a $41,000 Salary

24:27So I think that's part of it. It was just like, it's such a decision. Honestly, more than anything else, it is a decision based on your commitment to the vision that you have for your life. And you have a certain vision for your life and you're just like, okay, I know these circumstances are all happening around me, but I'm still committed to that vision. And so what is it going to take to make that vision happen? It's not like I took this risk just jumping off Cliff, I interviewed all of these solo attorneys, anyone who would talk to me to say, okay, what did you do? How did you start? How did you make your money?

24:59How did you get your first clients? What kind of money are you making? Did you make your first couple of years? So like, I would just talk to anybody who would, I called all these virtual law offices. So the 10 that existed at the time or less, I called every single one of them, just cold call them and said, hey, will you answer a couple of questions for me? I'm thinking about doing the same thing. And they were all willing to talk to me and tell me what they were struggling with, what was working really well, what wasn't working. And so I did my research, right, and gathered as much information as possible and took that information and put it into a plan.

25:28So it's not like I just jumped off a cliff, like not knowing anything, but I did. I was willing to go there because I was just so committed to making sure that I lived a good life and money is part of that real money. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what I would say to anyone who is thinking about becoming an entrepreneur or taking a risk in whatever way, career related, so that they can earn more. I would say, do your homework, do your research, put together your plan, and then trust your plan and go for it. Because I have seen it work out so well for so many people now. Does it always 100 % work out?

26:03No. But I think the thing that makes it more likely, if you want to guarantee, the closest guarantee you're going to get is you. How committed you are, how willing you are to show up, how willing you are to learn new things, how willing you are to be uncomfortable in the process and be like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going. How willing you are to ask for the sale. Hey, would you like to hire me? Right. Can you say those words? Can you say them repeatedly? Can you get rejected and then go say them again? Because that's a big part of it. And I was just kind of like, it's either ask for the sale or not pay your rent.

26:33So we're going to ask for the sale. Right. And I also did not start out like this. Like now I'm a loud mouth. But when I started, I was very mousy. Like if you go back can look at early days of my YouTube channel. When I first started, I got on YouTube, like I think in my second year of my practice, just trying different things to market, which by the way, worked like gangbusters. But in those videos, I'm literally like hiding behind my hair. And I'm like whispering because I'm like, did I want people to hear me? No, I did not. I was just so afraid to be seen, but also so committed to my dream that I'm like, I'm just going to do it afraid.

27:09And that's what I encourage people to do. And also just trust yourself. You're smart. You're capable. These people who have big, successful businesses, they're not any smarter than you. They're just more courageous than you. And as you said, do it afraid. Yes. It isn't even that they lack the fear. It's that they are afraid and they just do it anyway. Exactly. They're willing to face that fear and just go for it. So and I think, honestly, it's one of the best things you can do in your life is confront your fear, because when you do, it's just like it opens up the world and you see there's so much more possibility than you realize because you're just unwilling to try something that scares you a little bit, right?

27:46And if you're just willing to try it and it works out for you, or even if you learn something from it, then it's like whatever that next fear is in some other part of your life, you become more willing to face that too. And I think that's how we get the fullness out of life, to be honest. We're alive. We're on a journey, right? And I think sometimes we just want everything to be perfect, but go live your big, messy, beautiful life, take risks, go on an adventure. This is part of living. And I think if we make everything so routinized and so scroll social media, and so I only see these friends and I never leave my neighborhood and I never leave this job, even though I'm ready to go.

28:20Get out there and live. If nothing else, let's say you fail spectacularly. You have amazing stories to tell and you can always get a job you hate. That was exactly what I told myself also at that time. I was like, okay, the worst case scenario is I get a job. Yes. That's the worst case scenario. Exactly. And the other thing I will say too, speaking of that with entrepreneurship, I wanted these big law jobs. I wanted jobs with like a great like law firm or a boutique law firm that paid well, that I could do great work and work with great people. And when I was a couple of years in, so like in my second and third year of running my law practice on my own, I started to get those job offers.

29:02People started to reach out. Firms started reaching out to me and say like, hey, would you be interested in joining our team? And I considered some of those options, but they couldn't pay me as much as I was already making. And I was just like, no, I'm going to continue to see this through. But like sometimes entrepreneurship is the path to the career. And you can see it, right? Like with in entertainment, we see it where people start YouTube shows and then they get the show picked up by a network, right? Or musicians or whatever. Podcasters, right? You like your podcasting and then you get picked up by a big media company.

29:32So like doing it just DIY yourself for a while can actually get you noticed by these companies that you want to work at. So it can be a path to just getting a better job. Right. There's even that term aqua hire. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. So an acqui-hire, for the listeners who aren't familiar with this term, it is when a business makes an acquisition for the express purpose of hiring typically the founder and oftentimes the founder plus key members of that team. Yes. So oftentimes a business, a larger business, will buy a smaller business just for the sake of hiring. Yes. The talent. The talent.

30:12Yes. Exactly. Because that's how big businesses grow with talent. And so that is a great way for you to get noticed as well. So I think follow those inklings when you just, when something is on your heart and you have this idea and it just won't let you rest. Because I know we all try to like swat it away. No, no, no, no. Let me enjoy my regular life. But it just keeps nagging you. Then it's just like, you just got to listen to that because it's just going to harass you for the rest of your life. So you might as well just go do it. It's like, okay, I give in. I'll give it a shot. And you don't have to quit your job.

30:44Start a side hustle. get it going on the side for a while. Like you don't have to be without salary while you work on making something happen. Right.

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33:42As you were talking earlier about living like a big, audacious, adventurous life. Yes. So a lot of the people who are listening to this are people who are interested in financial independence, in early retirement. Yes. How would you take some of the same principles or ideas and apply it to that framework? Yes. Well, I'm a big fan of FIRE as well. And so I also am on my own path of reaching fire, right? And so I have a certain level of fire that I have already reached. But like I want another level. So I'm working towards that. Yeah, there's so many. There's lean fire. There's fat fire. Right. Yeah, I'm more of a fat fire type of girl.

34:18But there is a certain level that I've already reached. And this is a pathway to get there. Like earning more is part of financial independence, right? Because then you get to take those earnings and say, okay, what assets do I want to purchase? what income producing or cash flowing assets can I purchase that can allow me to gain financial independence, right? So that has been part of my journey as well. So as my business has earned more, I have been able to take some of that, the profit in the business and put it in other assets like buying real estate that cash flows. And then also obviously investing in the stock market significantly as well.

34:53I've also invested in tech startups, which is a more risky investment. That's what I'm getting into right now is private investing, investing in private businesses, basically. And that is like so much fun. Oh my God. It's so fun. And you get to go to the board meetings and like share your ideas and support this business growing, but you don't got to show up and do the day to day, right? If you've ever been a CEO, you're like, this is a lot of work being a CEO and a founder. And so it's so fun to be in the behind the scenes, to be able to advise, to be able to support, to use your network or your skillset to help that company grow without having to show up every day and creating like just opportunities and pathways for that company to grow.

35:34And yeah, that has worked out for me. I've invested in a couple of companies and one of them in particular is doing exceptionally well. That investment has grown by, I don't know, almost 50 % in three years. So huge, huge returns. And so obviously, I don't want all my stuff in there because that's relatively risky, but I have other things. So So diversifying and having other sources of cash flow. So those earnings, you can use them to like structure this lifestyle. And that's what we've discovered. We were like, huh, we actually already have enough from real estate, from book royalties, which is another, I guess, type of IP, right?

36:11Like it's my intellectual property. I've sold it and I continue to get book royalties for years to come. And so those book royalty payments are now significant enough, especially with several books, where like between the book royalties and my rental income from my house, I literally can just live off of that, which is so cool right now. And then it's like, okay, great. Now I can use profit from the business to like tackle other things. So it's just like, I actually think earning more is how we get to financial independence. It's a great pathway to get there. And there's so many different things to do.

36:45And it could be fun. Like, I encourage people to like make the earning process fun. It can feel like a hobby, right? Like if you enjoy buying real estate and fixing it up yourself and furnishing it yourself and creating this whole vision and we're managing an Airbnb or whatever, however you want to do that with real estate can be fun, right? Or investing in other businesses can be fun. Some of these different writing a book and like having that be a source of additional revenue that you don't have passive revenue. So I think creating these passive revenue streams or even creating a side hustle can feel like a hobby you get paid for.

37:17And I think choosing something that feels like that for you is really smart and it's a strategic way to do it. Right, right. Because yeah, because then you're excited about it, you show up for it more. It is, especially in the beginning, when you're putting in really long hours, that's what gets you to the next level. Yes. And so pick something that you can, that you want to put in really long hours. Exactly. That feels energizing for you, that you're excited about versus something that drains you. Right. Right. But how do you deal with the isolation? Because so much of that is screen time. How do you deal with that isolation?

37:53Yeah, I think it's important to just have balance always no matter what. So like this entire journey, even when I was hustling, I always got my eight hours of sleep. Like I always was getting my sleep. I was very rarely working like at night or I did have an issue with working on the weekends early on, like where I just struggled to like not get something done on the weekends. But what I started doing was I would like book activities, right? Like I'd book family stuff, personal stuff, time with friends on the weekend. So like I couldn't work because I was busy with other things. And that took me away.

38:27And then I'd have my best ideas, like being out with friends, walking through the park or going to a museum or whatever other activities we were doing. And so I realized how much my creativity was really fed by that time off. If you're working full time and you want to do a side hustle, choosing something really strategic is so critical so that you don't choose something that's going to take up another 40 hours. Like you don't want a second 40 hour a week job. So something that you can make a good amount of money in a couple of hours a month. Like for a small business bodyguard, I was sitting there writing for about two or three months.

39:00It took me to write and put together that whole program. And so like, yes, I was like really just sitting in my house like my kids were hanging out or whatever. they're watching their shows and I'm sitting there like just typing away right next to them. And so like, that's what it looked like for a while. And I was very committed to getting it done. Then I got it done. And then I continued to make really good money from it. Tens of thousands of dollars every month for years from that one time that I put in that three months of effort on the weekends and the evenings or during lunch or whatever, whenever I could get it done.

39:33So it's like, there is always going to be some upfront effort. Like you're, No one skips that part. No one I know of. I don't have that secret. So yeah, that initial effort. And the thing is, you might feel a little isolated for a little while, but obviously don't let it go on too long. Get her done so that you can move on and start to enjoy the spoils of that labor. Right. On one hand, there's the need to stay lean, especially in the beginning. Yes. On the other hand, there's the need to delegate so that you can grow. How do you, when to stay lean and when to delegate? Like when do you do it yourself?

40:08When do you hire? How do you balance that? Yeah. So honestly, I usually advise my clients like around the six figure mark, you hit six figures and you're growing beyond that. Of gross? Of gross revenue. Yes. That that is around the time like 100. Honestly, I feel like and the research shows this, that once you hit$250 ,000 in annual revenue in a business, if you don't start hiring, that's going to be your ceiling. At that point, it's critical. Like by 250, you've got to have. And I don't mean, when I say hire, I don't mean two hour a week VA, right? I don't mean like a couple hours a month contractor.

40:43I mean a full-time administrative assistant as your first full-time employee. You want to grow a business, hire your best employee and assistant. Guess who's your first best employee? It's you. So hire yourself an assistant and you're going to be able to almost double your output from just getting all of this stuff off your plate, like getting the mental load off of your head. So I think that's a great time. I think prior to that, it's really like you probably are just really hiring part time contractors like under six figures, and which is how it should be truly. And what I would do is like, I really did everything myself early on, unless I ran into something that I could not do, or was just like, for me to learn it myself would take so long and like delay money coming in, right?

41:27So it's like, it's better just like, It's almost like doing the math like anything else, right? If I spend this money within this frame of time, I'm gonna get this time back. I'm gonna get this off my plate. I'm gonna get this time back. And what is getting that time back gonna enable me to do? I'll give you an example. I was probably, this was like somewhere between the 60 and the 300 ,000, right? Like probably that year of 300 ,000, but I didn't know I was making that much yet. And this was before Small Business Bodyguard launched. I was just working in the business all the time and hustle, hustle, hustle.

41:56And it's like that question of, okay, do I hire a VA? And I finally just went for it because friends of mine advised me to do it. And I was like, okay, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it for one month. I'm going to commit to pay for it for one month. And as soon as I hired her, the first thing I had her do was respond to inquiries, right? So like we'd have incoming people saying like, hey, I'd like to hire you. Can we set up a call, whatever? And I was taking too long to respond to them. So then I would lose them. By the time I responded, I'd never hear back because they already found somebody else to solve their problem.

42:26And so that's what I had her do. Immediately, more money started coming in the door, literally like by the second week, because I put her on it. And did she do it exactly the way I would do it? No, but she did it fast and consistent. So they would hear from someone the same day, within hours, sometimes within minutes, and that would just get them in. So they would get the consult booked. They'd have a call with me. And now I have a good chance of closing that person. And so we just immediately started making more money. And I was like, oh, Oh my God. Like, why did I hire her sooner? So like literally just one client paid for her for the month.

43:01This was not full time. This was like probably five to 10 hours a week, somewhere in there that I was paying for. But like one month of her pay for that five to 10 hours was solved with one client, which she immediately got me within two weeks. Right. And then after that, it's all profit. So like I get one client a month that covers her costs. And then everything after that is just money I wouldn't have earned without her. Sometimes we think so much about costs and we're always like, how can I lower costs? How can I lower costs? How can I lower costs? And I get that. But I think we also have to think about opportunities and what opportunities am I saying no to when I lower this cost?

43:36If I lay off this team member, right, or if I don't hire this person, what opportunity to generate additional revenue is also going away? And so make sure that's part of the math equation as well. Because trust me, I'm the first, I love to save money. I love to cut a cost. But the reality is like, sometimes you cut costs and you're like, I'm actually losing. And I'll give you an example. We had this happen recently, not a cost we cut, but we had a team member leave. And because she had personal stuff going on. And so she was just like, I need to like, take some time off. And so she left and she was someone who managed particular marketing campaign for us.

44:14And so now we have a marketing director. And so the marketing director is managing that campaign. But the marketing director also handles sales to some degree, right? And so we had our typical marketing campaign that we do where we used to have an admin person, like project manager type person who was handling all the pieces of the campaign. And the marketing director was handling the sales piece. While the marketing director is now handling both, which she's capable of doing. But then I watched like the results were not the same. And we were like, what changed? I'm like, I know exactly what changed.

44:46Our marketing director could not focus on the sales. And therefore the sales dropped significantly because she was trying to handle both. So it's like now we have it. And I mean, like dropped by like 50 percent. You know what I'm saying? So paying this person this monthly salary and she's a full time employee with health benefits and all the things, her total cost is worth every penny because now this campaign's dropped, which is hundreds of thousands of dollars. So now we're, I mean, we knew it and it was like not something we could solve. She left suddenly because of a personal thing. Well, it was not, we didn't want her to leave, but, and we're actively trying to replace her, but it's not always fast, right?

45:25So it's like instantly costing money. And so sometimes it's very obvious like that. Other times it's not, but I think it's important to dig and really say, when I let go of this, what is it going to do? And it could be even simple things like, okay, my gym membership, I could cut that cost and just go for walks or just work out at home. And then it's like, are you going to do it though? Right. And so like, okay, I cut my gym membership, but now I don't feel as good every day. And now I don't feel like working on my side hustle because I have less energy. And it's like, girl, just pay the hundred dollars a month for the gym and get that energy back.

45:55So we have to look at both sides of it and that will help us make the best decision. Right. So you mentioned we focus so much on costs. Why do you think that is? Like, do you think that we take the template of how to manage our budget in our personal life and erroneously apply it to business spending? I think so. I've always had help for years around the house. And if I let go of that help, I'm sure it would absolutely impact my ability to earn a living. Right. And even if you have a full time job and you're working towards getting a raise and now you've got more on your plate at home and now you're coming into the office tired and you're not showing up as sharp in the meetings or you're not as prepared as you usually are, your chances of getting that raise are now slimmer.

46:36It absolutely affects our earning potential. That's why I'm always talking about boundaries. I'm always talking about your time. I'm always talking about your decisions that you're making, who you're hanging out with. All of that is impacting your earning potential. So I do think it's important, like even in your personal life to look at both sides, right? And you could take this the other way too. So let's say you're considering buying a house and it's like, OK, I could buy a house that's 100 % of my budget or I could go a little bit above and splurge a little bit and hustle for that money or whatever.

47:04Just be tight in other areas so that I can have my whatever dream home or the nicer house. Even that has another side to it, right? It's like it's not just the cash. It's like what is the mental load of having to be really tight with your budget now because you've taken on this bigger expense? Everything has costs that are not just cash. So I think it's important to look at the dollars and cents, do the math on that, but also look at, okay, what are these dollars and cents also impacting and how is that going to enable me to show up? What's at the core of this type of thinking is recognizing that you are the asset.

47:35You are the asset. And that's why I say, I don't care if you grew up low income like I did. I don't care where you're from. You absolutely can become a millionaire because you have this asset, which is you, right? So like what talents were you born with? What natural skills do you have? What experience do you have? What are you good at? What creative ideas do you have that you can bring value to other people's lives, right? So like you are the asset. So you should study this asset. And part of studying this asset and knowing how you can add value is also knowing what are your limits, right? What do you have energy for?

48:07What gives you energy versus what drains you? Understanding this asset that is you fully is so critical because then it's like, okay, now I know if I take on this side hustle, I'm going to make less money because I'm going to get tired real quick. Whereas if I do this, I'm going to be energized by it. I'll make more money, right? Like these things are important and they impact our numbers as well. Like they impact how many dollars we get in the door. So I think that's really the core philosophy that I have is that I am the asset. And I have that philosophy because I had nothing. I had no network to start with.

48:40I had no resources. I had no nobody giving me money, no money. But what I did have was me and my ideas and my talent. And I could put that together. Like, what was I good at when I was young? I was good at school. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna use that, go to school, get a degree. Okay, great. Now I've got the degree. Now I've got this skill set, this marketable skill. Now I'm gonna take this marketable skill to the marketplace and make money from it. And so it's all coming from you. So recognizing yourself as that asset and protecting yourself as that asset. Just like we protect our real estate and take good care of it, or we protect our portfolios.

49:15It's the same way we need to protect ourselves as an asset. Earlier, you gave the example of, hey, you know what? If you're not rested enough and you're not showing up as your full self, then maybe you're not going to be as good of an employee, which means that when you go to ask your boss for a raise, they might say no. Right. Because you're just not as good of an employee as you could have been. Yes. Let's talk. We've talked in the first section of this about entrepreneurship. But in this latter half, I want to talk to everyone listening who is currently a W-2 employee. Yes. Who wants to get a raise.

49:51Yes. Let's unpack everything that we need to do, starting with how to be a better employee. Yes. And moving to then how to make that ask or have that negotiation. So let's start with, as you first brought this in, being that better employee. What do you do to lay the groundwork before you even go in for that negotiation conversation? Yeah. So one, I think, first of all, understanding the company that you're at is key, right? Like, where am I? What is this company trying to achieve? What is the goals of this company? And even thinking, like, you might have to, if it's a really large company, you might have to think the department.

50:29What's the goal of our department? and what is my boss's job and what is my boss stressed about? What is my boss worried about? What are the numbers my boss needs to hit? And how can I make that a priority? How can I not only do my job and check off all the items on the list, but be thinking strategically about how can I support my boss and hitting their numbers and making sure that their goals are hit? Because that's really how you make yourself invaluable. So like having a full understanding of what's going on here as much as humanly possible. And part of that is asking. Finding those right moments to ask, saying, hey, can we go to lunch together today?

51:05I just want to, I want to chat with you because I want to see how I can be more supportive. Finding out as much as you can about how much you can be helpful, right? And then really, it's as simple as be helpful. Be helpful. Be that reliable person that is thinking ahead and anticipating needs is so valuable. And then also just always being game, right? And does that mean take on all this additional work when you're not getting paid for it? Sometimes, honestly, yes, for a little while. Now, don't allow that to go on for a long time, but part of it is showing what you can do, right? Part of it is, think about it, it's marketing, right?

51:42So imagine that there's a lot of people that will write a book or do podcasts or create all this social media content. It's marketing, right? So you're creating a lot of value for people. You're helping people with a lot of things and you're not getting paid for it yet, but then putting it out there allows them to then find you and then maybe say, yes, I do want to hire you. Right. So I think thinking of taking on additional tasks in the same way, like I'm going to do it for a little while to show you that I can and to show you how much value I can bring. And then we're going to have a conversation about how you're going to pay me for that additional value that I'm providing.

52:15Now, you don't want to be adding that additional value for years and not getting paid for it. Clearly, I'm talking months here, not years. Right. Do it long enough until that conversation comes up for your review. And in the review, say, these are all the things that I can point to, right? So it's almost kind of like have the end in mind and say, okay, what is the raise that I want, right? Or even the position that I want to work towards. And then how can I make that known? And how can I get projects related to that and do a really good job with them so that I'm creating that track record so that when we have that conversation and I say, it's time for me to have a raise.

52:51And my boss is like, why are you deserving of a raise? I'm like, here are all the receipts. You know what I mean? And I'm armed for that conversation. So like lay the groundwork for that conversation before you ever get in there. That's how I would think about it. Just like show up and be useful, be helpful, be reliable. Because when it's time for layoffs, you do not want to let go of the most reliable person on the team, right? Like your right hand or the person that's your go-to, you're not trying to let them go. You're going to do whatever you can to save them. So be that person. Yeah, that reminds me.

53:22So I'm reading right now, the book I'm reading right now is The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Green. Oh my goodness. So good. This should be required reading for everybody. I agree. Wow. One of the laws of power is make others dependent on you. And that's what I thought of when you said, when it's time for layoffs, you never let go of the most reliable person. No, because they are dependent on you. And they're like, I can't live without this extremely helpful, reliable person. The other thing that makes people reliable too, when I think about people on my team, truly pretty much my entire team is like this, where they're not just going to do the tasks on their list.

53:59They're going to think through what's the most strategic and advantageous way to do this task. What are the other tasks related to this that maybe someone is not thinking about that I need to bring to the table and say, hey, I'm going to do this. But I also noticed that, is anyone handling this? Have y 'all thought about this, this, and this, right? So now you're seeing the problems before they become problems and you're bringing them and saying like, if no one's on this, I can take care of it. Or here's the person who I think can do this and I can collaborate with them, right? Like solving problems.

54:30That's really what we're at work to do, right? So look for the problems and solve them. That's really, that's what makes you invaluable. Right. Well, and that's a very different way of thinking because to your point, a lot of employees come in and say, all right, I'm going to execute these tasks. Yes. I've seen a number of people just like, They come in, they're task executors. Yes. But they're not problem solvers. Right. Exactly. So it's kind of like add some strategy to the task execution. Yeah, get that to-do list done. But think through what's beyond the to-do list. What's next in this project?

55:06What part of this project do you see that's not being handled well? What opportunities do you see that are not being taken advantage of? And part of that is taking a risk, right? Because I think sometimes people just execute the task because they're like, oh, I don't want to overstep. I don't want to overstep. I don't want to inconvenience. I don't want to put myself out there and then be rejected, right? And I think you have to. It's true with entrepreneurship. It's true as an employee as well. If you want to get the maximum out of your career, you're going to have to take some risks. And that risk might be knocking on your boss's door and saying, hey, can I run something by you real quick?

55:39And just say like, hey, I'm working on this project. I noticed this, this, and this. Please let me know if I'm overstepping. But I I just wanted to raise it in case it might be helpful to blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, OK, thank you. I didn't know that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Let me think about what the best way to solve that is. And you can say, well, if I may, I've got an idea. Now you're solving. You've done the thinking before. Your boss has to do it. So that's an approach. And you can always do it in a way with like, hey, let me know if I'm overstepping. But I noticed this.

56:07But those people who are willing to step up and take the risk and they might say, like, actually, I did think about that. We don't need to do that. But thank you. Even the thinking, even the willingness to go the extra mile, even if it's not an idea that your boss wants to take advantage of, it's showing them that you're going beyond the to-do list. And then they're going to start to rely on you and say like, now instead of just giving you a task, they might give you like, hey, we need to solve this problem. But before we even get there, I've been trying to do research on this and I just don't even have time.

56:40Well, you research all the options, you narrow down to the three that you think are the best solutions, and then present that to me. Then I'll hear the options, and then I'll tell you which one to go with, and then you will do that part too. So now you're not just getting the task, you're getting the thinking and the strategy related to the task as well. Exactly. And that's how you get paid more. Right. Well, and as an employee, you should be eager to take that on. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And if you're not, you might be in the wrong profession, and it might be time to find a career where you can get excited and hype about it, and you're energized by work.

57:10If you can be energized by your work, the ability to make more money becomes so much easier because you're not reliant on discipline. Like I just have to show up and I've just got to do it. I just got to power through. That's not how I show up. I show up to work like, what are we doing today? How fun? Let's go. Everything that I'm doing is highly connected to my natural talent. So it's just fun. It's easy. It's stuff I would be doing anyway, even if I wasn't getting paid. And that's why I say study yourself. Take personality assessments. Take career assessments. understand how you like to work, because that's going to help you find that right fit.

57:43And now there's no job that's going to be 100 % just a joyride, right? Like there's always going to be grunt work. There's always going to be some part of it that's a slog, like that's part of it. But if you can get closer to 80 % of your work is exciting and energizing, instead of draining, that would be a game changer for your career. Right. And one thing I want to highlight one thing that you said, because you talked about being proactive about noticing problems or noticing elements that need to be solved. Yes. But don't just bring the problem to your boss. Also bring the solution. Yes. I've definitely seen people who, they bring the problem.

58:18They're great at bringing the problem all day long. And it's like, great. Do you have any solutions? Yes. Because after a while, it just starts to sound like a long list of problems. Yes. And I'm like, yeah, I've noticed these too. Do you have any solutions? Right. Exactly. And if you think about it, right, if your boss is running a team, if everybody's pointing out problems all day long, someone's just constantly bringing that person problems. Right. And that person maybe doesn't even have the time to think about the solutions. And so it just becomes overwhelming and frustrating. And so, yes, like it's essentially, honestly, it's not unlike entrepreneurship in that you want to have empathy for your target market.

58:56You know what I mean? So it's like, who is my ideal client? Your ideal client in this case is your supervisor or whoever is in control of the race. And it's like, okay, what are they struggling with? What are their pain points? How can I have empathy for what they might be experiencing in their workday? Because I think a lot of people just automatically hate their bosses or see them as an enemy or someone to avoid or someone that is in the way of them getting what they want. And it's like, okay, well, maybe see it through their eyes and recognize them as a human. and like, what are they struggling with?

59:29And having empathy for them and saying like, okay, here's how I could help support them and then support them and expect that support to come back reciprocally. And if it doesn't, right, then find a new job with a new boss, you know? But if you're working in the right place, that should come back to you. So I actually train, this is part of our onboarding for every team member that if you bring me a problem, you must bring me three solutions and then tell me which one is your favorite, it. Which one do you think we should go with? And it's now to the point where my team brings me a problem. They tell me the three options and whichever one they said is the one to go with.

1:00:04That is what I go with 90 % of the time. Unless I've been through this kind of scenario before and I know that that won't work. I always give their solution a shot because they're closer to the issue than I am. And so like they're seeing all the pieces that I'm not necessarily seeing and I trust them on it. And then that way it gets to either be their win or their loss. And if it's their loss. Great. Now you've become valuable to me as an employee because you've made a mistake and you will never forget it. You've learned from it. Right. So now you're even more valuable. I don't want to send you somewhere else.

1:00:32Stay here. And then if you get the win, it's like now you've got a huge win under your belt that gives you confidence. Right. So either way, it's a win for me. Right. What else is in your training with your new employees? Like what else do you want your new employees to know? Yes. So I have a whole document called how to work with me. It's like how to work with Rachel. And it just tells them my leadership style. It tells them like our company values, what I expect of my leaders on the team, how to learn something new, because I used to get the excuse, well, I don't know how to do that. Great. I didn't know how to do half the stuff I've done in this business.

1:01:07Like when I first started, I'm learning new things all the time. I'm having to figure out how to do new things all the time. And so here's how I approach learning something new. And so I have that structure in there. which decisions to bring to me versus which decisions to make on your own, right? We have like a whole matrix for that. So it's just like a lot of things like that, that is letting them know how I think. And then also to how I am as a person, like I am not a micromanager by any means. So I hire people who are autonomous, who want to be in control of their projects. Because if you want me to like sign off on every little bit, we're not going to enjoy this working relationship.

1:01:45I'm like, I want you to do it. And then call me when you need me kind of working relationship. So I want to be very honest about who I am and how I show up in this business and what the philosophy and the values of this company are so that they can decide, is this the right place for me? We tell every new team member, this is a 90 day onboarding. We're still assessing whether you're the right fit and you're still assessing whether this is the right fit for you. And if it's not cool, no hard feelings. And in fact, I'll help you find your next thing. If it is a fit, great, but let's be like really honest with each other about what our expectations are and whether you feel like you can meet those expectations and whether I can meet your expectations.

1:02:23So I just want to be as upfront and transparent as possible so people know if it's the right fit. And we've definitely had people come in, interviewed well, we felt like they were a good fit. And in the first 90 days, they're like, this isn't for me. The pace doesn't work for me. It's too fast paced or I don't like so much autonomy or whatever. There's just different things that don't fit. So all of that. And then, of course, we have a lot of training material for our clients and our employees go through that training material so they know our content. They know who our ideal clients are. They read my books as part of the onboarding.

1:02:55Like, basically, it's like a study of Hello7 in the first 90 days. And that really helps them. Now they have a ton of context to be able to take on their job because that's what I want them to have. I don't want them to just do their job and be like, these are tasks that I'm getting done in isolation. No, I want you to understand the full picture of where we're going and what we are collectively looking to accomplish so that they can see, OK, these tasks, I can see how they relate to the ultimate goal. We want them to understand their role in the machine. That's part of the onboarding as well.

1:03:24And then it's also just like letting them do the jobs. And we also make it like they get three check-ins a week with their supervisor when they first start. You have tons of questions. There's a lot of uncertainty. That's just more support in the beginning. So that's part of our training process.

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1:05:32We talked about how to be a good employee. Yes. Now it's time for an employee to ask for a raise. Yes. What are your recommendations when it comes to how to approach that negotiation? One, I would look at, okay, what's going on with the business? Did we just come off of a win? Because if we've just come off of a win, that is the best time. Like, don't kick a dog when it's down. You know what I mean? So if your company is struggling, if targets are not being hit, if it's hard economic times, that may not be the best time to ask for a raise. I'm not saying it's absolutely out of the question during those times.

1:06:06I've given raises recently and the economy is not doing great. But really look at what is happening in the company is like step one. You want to time it when the company is on a high, if at all possible. So that's one piece to consider. And then, again, track record. What are you bringing to the table to show what you're bringing to the table? You want to show like, okay, these are the projects I did. These are the wins. Like we just did this where we send out like a form to our team periodically where we just say like, hey, what are you enjoying about work? What are you not liking about work?

1:06:38What could be better? It's just a series of questions. Where do you see yourself in a couple of years? Lots of questions around work that we ask them to fill out. And one of my employees in the list and like share some wins that you've had recently that's in there. One of my employees put every win she had, which was like a list of 25 wins. She had so many wins that she talked about. And I've forgotten all that she's gotten done. And that's the problem. You're a boss will too. So make sure you tell them. Because if you don't tell them, it's not that they don't care or they don't value. It's that they got so much going on that they're not able to focus on it at the moment.

1:07:15So get them to focus by getting it in front of them and show them what you've done. Show them what the track record is. And so she was showing me just like what she had gotten done in the last six months. And I was like, oh, my God, this woman deserves a raise. So before she even asked for one, I gave it to her. You want to make sure if your company is not asking you, and especially if you're going into an employee review, walk into that review with your list. And don't be afraid to take up space. Give them the whole list. OK, I don't care how long it is. The longer it is, the better, because then you're really making a case for why you are invaluable.

1:07:47And also you could say like, hey, this is what I would love to do, but I feel like I can't in my current role. I'd love to have the authority to make these decisions so I could just take this off of your plate for you. Someone trying to take something off my plate is music to my ears. OK, so these are some of the things to think about for that conversation. But making sure that you've got your track record ready. And then also do your research like what is the standard salary in your area for your role? What's the salary range for the job that you have? And if you're wanting to go beyond that, okay, make a case for why you are better than 90 % of the people in your role out there and how you add value to the company.

1:08:24Understanding market research as well, doing a little bit of that. So there's a lot of prep. And then using that to figure out what your number is going to be. Once you've timed the conversation, right, then email your boss or reach out to them and say, like, hey, can we set up a meeting? I'd love to have a conversation with you about what's next for my career. And then go in there and just ask for the raise. Your boss expects you to ask for a raise from time to time. They're not going to fire you for asking for a raise. The only time that asking for a raise creates red flags for me is if I feel like the employee is completely not self-aware.

1:08:56And they're not winning at work. And they're not meeting expectations. and they're not aware that they're not meeting expectations and they're asking for a raise, that's a red flag. Like, okay, you don't actually know that you're doing a terrible job, which is concerning because I know I told you, you know, like, because I'm very upfront about it. So anyway, so that would be the only time. So just make sure you really, and if you're somebody who's always late, is not reliable, is always saying no, when you're asked to do something, you do not have that track record, then asking for a raise is probably not a good idea because the chances of you getting it are pretty slim.

1:09:29And instead, maybe you want to go somewhere else where you actually want to commit to the work. That feels more aligned. Many companies have built in annual performance reviews. Yes. Should this conversation, you talked about ask when you're on a high. Yes. But how do you do that in a context where your company has an annual performance review? Maybe they do annual cost of living adjustments. When I was at a newspaper, we had once a year a cost of living adjustment that would range between three to 5 % depending on your performance. Right. Right. And so that was considered everybody's raise, so to speak.

1:10:07Yes. But the raise was so limited and it was okay. Either you're going to get 3%, in which case you've just kept up with inflation. Yes. Or maybe you'll beat inflation by one or 2%. And the only time to ask was at the holidays because that was the one annual time. Yeah. What would you do in a situation like that? If you want to maximize your earnings from your skills and your labor, then being someone who's just always in compliance, I don't think is aligned with maximizing your earning potential. Because most people are not going to maximize their earning potential. Most people are going to take what they get and call it a day.

1:10:43So you got to be willing to be a bit of a rebel and go outside of the system sometimes. There's a system, but you don't always have to work in it. Like I gave a raise this spring. It was not in the middle of annual reviews necessarily, but it made sense to me and we had the capacity to do it. So we did. You don't always have to do it that way. And so what I would say is you have a big win and you're going into the summer and the first half of the year, you've absolutely crushed it. Ask for that conversation then. And even if you have to wait till the annual review to get the raise, you want to preempt to that conversation because by the time you get to the annual review, they've largely already made their decisions and they're just informing you about it in a big way.

1:11:27So if you can preempt that conversation and say, let's have a conversation about my career. And I know we have annual reviews at the end of the year, but I'd love to check in now because I just want to share what I'm thinking and I want to get your feedback. You can ask for feedback and say like, hey, here's what I'm seeing in my work. Here's how I'm adding value. Do you agree? And you can even say, you could just be straight up and say like, hey, I really see myself in this particular role or I really would like to be earning more. What do you need to see from me for that to happen? I love for an employee to ask that because then I'll tell them.

1:12:00I've had people come to me and say, hey, I'd really like to be earning significantly more than I am. Here's the number I really want to get to. What do I need to do to do that? And I'm like, OK, here's exactly what you need to do. You're doing this, this and this really, really well. If you could also take on this or if I could see you take that to the next level or like this is your weakness. And if you work on that and strengthen that up, then I can see how that's going to help this company make more money where I can then have the money to pay you more. So like I will happily name the specific things that will make it easier for me to say yes to a big raise like that.

1:12:36So ask, just have the conversation. I think when we're afraid to have those conversations is the problem. And also too, like let's say you have the conversation. It doesn't work out the way you want. Great. You got the experience. You did it. Right. So like now you're more prepared for the next time that you do it. You can definitely ask for the conversation. And it's not about like, give me a raise today. But it's like, I want you to know that I'm looking for more money and that I'm looking to show you my value. And I'm looking for you to show me that you value me. So it's kind of like now I'm aware and your boss is aware.

1:13:07So now they're thinking about, OK, what do I need to do to get this person a raise as well? Because they understand once you've asked for a raise, if I can't do it this year and that becomes a conversation every year, I know eventually you're going to leave. Maybe you're not going to leave right now, but you're going to leave in the near future. You're going to start looking for something else. And if you're invaluable, I don't want that to happen. Really put some effort into developing a rapport with your boss where these conversations feel less scary. Treat them like a real person, ask them to treat you like a real person.

1:13:34As much as you are in control to do that for how you show up. And just, I think the more you can build that trust and build that relationship, the easier these harder conversations are. How, um, a lot of jobs are virtual these days. How do you build that rapport in a context where you're working perhaps with a fully remote team? Yes. It could just be as simple as like, Hey, how was your vacation? What did you do this weekend? Here's what I did. Right. Like just being willing to like, shoot the shit really a little bit, like Just being willing to have some conversation and like just a little bit more of connection.

1:14:10And with really anybody, if you're trying to develop relationships with people, it's like look for the commonalities. What do you have in common? Do you have kids the same age? Did you grow up in the same area? Did you go to the same school? Do you like the same basketball team? Right. Like find your in. And it could be like, are you both into fashion? And you can say like, oh, I discovered this new brand. I'm going to send it to you. I feel like you'd love it based on what you wear. Like, I love when the young people on my team help me be cool. Like, hook me up. Tell me what's the slang. I want to learn this cool slang.

1:14:44I want to know what it means. Like, I want to know the cool brands. What's hot right now? What's not? What's trending? I'm probably not going to do half those trends, but I want to know about it. Yeah. So, yeah. So, like, just find ways to, like, points of connection so that you can just build that into conversations. It doesn't have to be long, but just a little bit all the time where you're enjoyable to connect with and talk to. I think then you're going to get more out of those conversations. We've talked about entrepreneurship. We've also talked to the people who are listening who are W2 employees who want to get raises, want to earn more.

1:15:17But let's talk family. Yes. You've got four kids. Yes. How old are they? 24 is the oldest and the youngest is six. Wow. And then I have a 12-year-old and a 13-year-old. Wow. Oh, that's a very wide range. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Tell me about the 24-year-old in terms of launching. Yes. In terms of how they are launching into the world. Yeah, it's so important, right? And it definitely impacts your finances as a parent, your kid's ability to go figure it out. Because otherwise, they stay asking you for money. And I actually saw a stat recently that I was floored by two thirds of adults under the age of 43 years old.

1:16:0543. I'm 43. So two thirds of adults still ask their parents for money. They're unable to get by financially without asking for some money from their parents. And I think if you're a parent of a teenager or a college student, a young adult, that's pretty scary because you're like, at what point are you getting out of my house? And at what point can I stop paying for your life? That impacts your ability to put money away for retirement or just downsize if you want to once your kids are out of the house. So, yeah. So I think it's important. But, yes, for ours, that's what we did with her. We sort of are like, hey, if you're not going to go to college, then you've got to have a plan.

1:16:43And the plan can't include sitting on our couch for the rest of your life. And so we slowly but surely sort of pushed her towards independence. And I think that push is so necessary. Once she got a full time job, it's like, OK, great. Now we'd like you to start paying rent like you can keep living here, but you need to pay rent. And we're not going to charge you market rate, but I want you to get accustomed to paying monthly for your housing. How old was she when you started charging her rent? I want to say 19. Yeah. And so she was actually, of course, she was like, you don't love me. You know, and I'm like, no, I do love you.

1:17:17And that's exactly why I want you to get accustomed to the real world. Right. Like you're an adult now, because I think kids these days, it's like it's DoorDash this and Uber that like they don't even touch money. So it's like there's not this awareness that every time I order DoorDash or like an Uber that the balance is going down. It's like to them, it's just this never-ending balance. And at some point, you as the parent have to make sure they're aware. And it can't be when you're mad because they're not listening then. So that's what we did. We charged her rent. And guess what she did? She was like, OK, I'm going to move out.

1:17:50If I'm going to pay rent, I might as well move out. Exactly. That was the point. She's had starts and stops. She gets a job. It works out for a while. Then she leaves or whatever. She gets laid off or something. And then she's looking for another job. And so we said, OK, great. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to pay. we pay for healthcare. We were paying for her cell phone for a while. I cut that off. My husband was like willing to pay for it for a long period of time. I was like, shut it down. Okay. But we, we pay for healthcare. We pay for therapy. If you ever want to go to, we have a family therapist.

1:18:23So it's like, whenever you want to go to the therapist, that's fine. We'll pay for that. And literally that's it. We don't pay for anything else. So that's what we, but we slowly back. first we started charging her rent. Then we said, okay, you've got to pay for your own cell phone bill. And then we were like, she left the house. And then we were like, okay, we're not going to continue to pay these different expenses that I noticed you have pinging my bank account every month. So you're going to take these on, right? We're going to ease you off over this period of time. And by that time, it's all you, but we will continue to pay for healthcare and we will continue to pay for therapy.

1:18:56And that's it. Everything else is on your own. If you're in school and you need help with school, let us know. She's switched schools a couple of times. And so in that process, it's like, okay, you need help with books, we'll help you out. But she went to school and it was like dropping classes after the period. So you've paid for the class. But now she's not getting the grades. And I was like, no, cut. Nope. So it's like, I have rules about what I will pay for. And it's pretty limited. And it has to be something that's actually improving your life. I'm not paying for you to hang out with your friends.

1:19:31And so she's become an adult in that process. And I think a lot sooner than a lot of other young adults that I see. And it's because we were willing to basically cut her off in a gentle way, but still cut her off. What strikes me as I hear you talk about your oldest daughter versus when I hear you talk about your own young life is that life cut you off at a young age, you know? Exactly. I don't think that I would be the entrepreneur that I am today. I don't think I'd have the career that I have, the income that I have. I don't think I would have the success that I have if I didn't learn how to deal with hard things.

1:20:16I think we as parents, unfortunately, try to avoid any challenges for our children. And it's like, no, no, no. Like the whole point is for them to be challenged with support and then with decreasing support as they get older and older, right? Like every passing year, there's a little bit more that you're letting them handle on their own. There's a little bit more not swooping in for certain things, right? Slowly but surely, like the goal is their independence and that includes their financial independence. And so at some point, you have to make it sink or swim because they will try to stay forever.

1:20:51That's what the stats show is that they are staying. Now, is it totally their fault? No. I mean, we have the housing market being what it is, inflation, student loan debt, all of these things are colliding and their wages are not as high as their parents were. So they don't have the buying potential. Or even if it looks like it's as high, it's not because of inflation and all these other things. They don't have the buying potential that their parents had in their early 20s. People were buying whole houses. I talked to a woman the other day who went to law school, I want to say in the 80s. She said she paid$3 ,000 for law school.

1:21:21She said she would work over the summer. Sorry, not law school, med school. She'd work over the summer and that would pay her tuition for the year. Those days are so gone, right? And so they're dealing with very real challenges and they do need a financial plan to help them with that. And their whole financial plan can't be us forever because it's just not realistic. And also you think like it is absolutely going to impact your ability to stay for retirement and the other moves that you're trying to your own ability to get financial independence if you're supporting your kids in their 30s. And now these stats are showing till early 40s.

1:21:56At some point, pay for your own life. You know what I mean? I've done my work. Well, and again, that's what strikes me. So you didn't have you just didn't have that option. So your father passed away when you were 14? 12. 12. Yes. When you were 12, right? And so your sister was supporting the family, your older sister. Yes, exactly. And yeah, right. And so I had that example in front of me of like a young person who was making it happen because she had no choice, right? And our kids have choice and we love that. But I think we need to take some of those choices away because otherwise there is a real failure to launch because they don't have to.

1:22:36Yeah. I have friends who are very successful, who grew up in families where they were very well off or very comfortable financially. And their parents also were like, go get a job at a certain point. When they finish college, it's like time to get that full time job and I'm not paying for your life anymore. I'm going to help you for a period. There's going to be a weaning off period. But then after that, you're on your own and like call me in an emergency. But don't be calling me every week to pay your regular bills. You've got to make that work. That's where you learn real financial skills, right?

1:23:05of like how to manage your money and how to make it all work and what moves you need to make. Now, do you want your kids in the most desperate situations? Of course not. They're going to call you way before that, but you also don't want them in the most luxurious, right? Which is living off of your labor for the rest of their lives or for another decade when they complete college. The thing is they don't want to live with you. They want to go start their own lives. They want to have their own home, run their home the way that they want to. They want to have their independence. They want to have a career.

1:23:34They want to be successful. And so we need to give them the tools to show them how to do that today. In this day and age, what we were told or what might have worked for especially baby boomers is not available to them. They need a path to make it happen. And I think it's important that we allow them to struggle a little bit so that they can see that they can figure it out. And then when they figure it out, it's their win and that builds their confidence, right? And so I feel like it's really important. So of your four kids, the oldest is 24, the youngest is six. Yes. Do you see any differences, like the way that they understand money at that age versus when your oldest was six?

1:24:19Yes. Right. Which was 18 years ago. Yeah. Do you see any differences over? Massive. Real. Okay. Huge differences. I saw a meme the other day that said like each one of your kids is having a completely different childhood. And I think it's completely true. The only ones that probably had the same childhood are the two that are close in age. You said 13 and 12? Yes, exactly. So they're 19 months apart. And so they had a very similar childhood. But the little one, he came in and we were already rich. He doesn't know struggle, right? Like he's like struggle. What is that? Whereas the oldest, she watched us building this and she did see lots of struggle.

1:24:57We were still struggling or not struggling, but we were still building as she was like in high school. So she got to see something different in the ones in the middle. It was almost like optimized, right? Because your first child, you're doing your best and you're figuring it out and you're probably still building your career in a lot of ways and you're learning. And then the next ones come and you've learned so much from the first one that you're tweaking your methods now. And financially, we were definitely more comfortable. So that was also part of it. But one thing that was always true for all of them was we always sent them to the best schools that were available to us.

1:25:33Of course, as we had more money, better schools were available. But that was the first thing I spent my money on. So even my oldest graduated from an amazing private school because as soon as I had any extra, like my first set of extra went to amazing schools because like education was everything. That was the game changer for me. So it was like my top priority. So they all went to amazing schools and that's the same. But for sure, I think their understanding of even money. The other thing too is I changed, right? Because I learned so much more about money. Like now what I know, yeah, I'm writing books about it, right?

1:26:06When I was still getting these lessons with my first. So I talk about money in front of my kids a lot. When we're making big financial decisions, I tell them why we're making it. I ask their opinion and let them weigh in. Even if I'm not going to go with what they said, I still want them to just be a part of the family financial decision-making process because otherwise, how are they going to learn? They have zero experience with money, right? I also pay for grades with the 13 and under, which we didn't do with the oldest. We gave her an allowance, but I think it would have been better if we paid for grades.

1:26:39So like I do performance based bonuses on my team and I'm like, I'm going to bring that to my family. So you get a performance based bonus when you bring home A's. So I pay a hundred dollars for every A and I pay a thousand dollars if you get all A's. And then they are required to invest half of that money. And then the other half of that money, they can spend with whatever they want. So go make stupid decisions because like, I want you to make those decisions so you can feel the weight of them with this small amount of money rather than when you're an adult with a larger sum of money. And so they're just getting a full financial education that I did not have even just mental capacity.

1:27:14I was so tired. I didn't have the capacity with the oldest. But now she does. We've had lots of conversations, of course, about money still as she's gotten older. But we weren't having these conversations when she was really little. So I think that's kind of cool. And like my youngest, he has gotten allowances and he goes and he wants to go buy a new dinosaur. So he gives the money and he gets the change. We make him pay in cash so he can see the change, you know, and get that back. And so like he's interacting with money in a way that the other ones didn't when they were his age. So I think like the more we can talk about money with our kids, the more we can make financial decisions in front of them, the more we can give them some money and let them manage it on their own so they can have the experience of that.

1:27:57and then have conversations about, do you regret that decision? Are you happy with that purchase? That kind of thing. I think that's really valuable to give them that education because otherwise, where are they going to get it? Like you don't want to wait until they're 25 before they're actually learning about a dollar and what it means. Well, Rachel, thank you for spending this time with us. Where can people find you if they'd like to learn more? Yes, you can find me on Instagram, Rachel Rogers ESQ. I also have a podcast called the Hello7 Podcast. So if you're interested in becoming an entrepreneur, That's a great place to learn more about it.

1:28:29And if you're interested in my latest book, it's called Future Millionaire, especially for young adults and teens. So if you've got young adults or if you have a graduation coming up, it's a great gift. So go to futuremillionairebook.com and you can get all the details about getting your copy or books are sold. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

1:28:48Thank you, Rachel. What are three key takeaways from this conversation? Key takeaway number one, focus on earning more rather than cutting expenses. Rachel faced$330 ,000 in debt on a$41 ,000 salary. And yes, her salary would have increased in subsequent years. But the only reality that we have is the one that we live in in the present moment. And in that present moment, she had a salary of$41 ,000 and debt of$330 ,000. Her debt was eight times her annual salary. She didn't try to penny pinch her way out because that would have been ridiculous. Instead, she focused, she zeroed in on increasing her income because that's the second I in FIIRE.

1:29:31Increasing your income has a much, much deeper impact, a bigger impact, not just on your financial life, but on your circle of influence, on your happiness, on everything. increasing your income is so much better than trying to penny pinch your way to success. There's a reason that the F in F-double-I-R-E stands for financial psychology rather than frugality. You cannot shrink your way to greatness, but you can with the right mindset and the right habits and the right systems, increase your income, use that to make investments, use that to buy real estate, and use that to catapult yourself into entrepreneurship if that's what you want to do.

1:30:15Remember, just like with regular FIRE, with financial independence, retire early, the R and the E, the real estate and the entrepreneurship, those pieces are optional. They're there for you if you want them, but you don't need them. But the F and the two I's, those are foundational. Financial psychology, which is mindset, increasing your income and investing. Those pieces, the FI part is foundational and the FI part is for everybody. And the R and the E, those are options. So going back to the lesson that we learned from Rachel, she embraced the letter F by shifting her mindset towards abundance, towards earning, towards income, and then focused with all her effort into earning more.

1:31:02And that's what allowed her to tackle her debt aggressively rather than just make minimum payments for decades. The key was earning more. There was no amount of adjusting expenses because truly I couldn't live off of$41 ,000 and put a huge amount of money towards debt. Like that just wasn't an option. Honestly, even just paying the bare minimums on my loans was not possible on the$41 ,000 a year. That is the first key takeaway. Focus on earning more rather than simply cutting back. Key takeaway number two, at work, make yourself indispensable by understanding your boss's pain points. Rachel gives the perspective of a CEO of a multimillion dollar company, and she explains that the best employees don't just execute tasks.

1:31:51They think strategically about how to solve their boss's biggest problems. That means understanding your company's goals, understanding your boss's goals, knowing what keeps your boss up at night, what do they worry about, what's on their mind, and then positioning yourself as the person who makes their life easier, who has ideas and brings solutions to the table. Because when layoffs happen, you want to be the person that they cannot afford to lose. What is my boss's job? And what is my boss stressed about? what is my boss worried about? What are the numbers my boss needs to hit? And how can I make that a priority?

1:32:31How can I not only do my job and check off all the items on the list, but be thinking strategically about how can I support my boss in hitting their numbers and making sure that their goals are hit? Because that's really how you make yourself invaluable. That is the second key takeaway. Finally, key takeaway number three, bring solutions, not just problems. As a CEO, Rachel requires that her employees come to her with three solutions whenever they identify a problem. This makes employees more valuable and shows initiative that leads to raises and leads to promotions. And it trains people to think strategically rather than just pointing out what's broken.

1:33:12This is part of our onboarding for every team member. I actually train that if you bring me a problem, you must bring me three solutions and then tell me which one is your favorite. Which one do you think we should go with? And it's now to the point where my team brings me a problem. They tell me the three options and whichever one they said is the one to go with. That is what I go with. Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with the CEO of Hello7, Rachel Rogers. Thank you so much for being an afforder, for being part of the Afford Anything community. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends, neighbors, colleagues, cousins.

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1:34:56In fact, if you want to talk to other people about what you learned and how you might take action or what questions you have, if you want to talk to like-minded people, go to affordanything.com slash community. It's completely free. Everything I've mentioned is totally free. The newsletter is free, affordanything.com slash newsletter. The community is free, affordanything.com slash community. This is all here for you, for your benefit. So take advantage of what is available for you for free because it's here to help you on your wealth path. Thank you again for being an afforder. My name is Paula Pant.

1:35:32This is the Afford Anything Podcast, and I'll meet you in the next episode.