Your Zip Code Is Quietly Deciding What You Buy, with former Wharton Prof. David Bell

27:32How would a person go about targeting those people? Is that all simply a matter of just being excellent at Facebook ads targeting or are there more specialized things that a person could do? There's more specialized things now, I think. And again, there has been some interesting press about this most recently actually in The Economist. There was an article I saw the other day. One of my friends who's a professor at IE Business School in Madrid was quoted in it. And it was just talking about, I think, the thing that most people know now is a lot of the early direct-to-consumer businesses could really spend money very efficiently on platforms like Meta and Google and so on and could acquire customers fairly cheaply.

28:09that game has kind of gone out the window now because of rising costs privacy and everything else so i think you have to get really creative so i was speaking with a founder the other day and he's actually figured out a hack with the u.s post office he's got a sort of a wellness longevity thing that comes in a sachet that you that you drink it it's quite costly like to send you one of those as a sample but there's a way with the u.s mail you can actually buy a route you can buy an individual postal route of a certain number of homes that some person is delivering to and the cost of doing that i think he can get these things in people's hands for a little bit over a dollar right obviously still targeting through the internet can be important but offline activations obviously would have to justify themselves back in the day warby parker had a school bus that they drove all over the country and we would monitor and the bus stopped in Des Moines, Iowa, did warbyparker.com get more traffic?

29:07And absolutely it did. Like the traffic would go up because this thing is driving around. People are coming into the school bus. They're trying the product on. And what was really good about that was not only did the website traffic and purchasing sort of pop, it obviously started to go down again once the bus drove off, but it never went back to the pre-bus level. Being creative and being clever and trying not to spend too much money is a good thing probably in every community of every size. There are certain people who are more important than others in terms of being a conduit for whatever it is that you want to sell.

29:43So who is that person in Des Moines that if they bought the product they would have outsized influence? I mean it's all basic targeting but the trick is the mechanics by which you do it and the creativity with which you do it. Right. When the story that you tell about buying a particular postal route, so you have strong coverage over a very narrow area, and then with also the example of Warby Parker pulling up a school bus to a specific location, again, strong coverage, kind of media spectacle in a very narrow, constrained geographic area. The common thread that I hear is tactile or physical. either via in-person interaction or via something in the mail.

30:29So tactile, physical, geographically highly constrained such that there is huge coverage in that narrow space. Is that accurate? That's a great summary of the whole thing. And just as you were speaking, it reminded me of another company that I really like. I haven't checked in for a while, but I think it's a fascinating idea. So these guys are out of Los Angeles and they have an outdoor furniture company that's sort of like the Warby Parker of restoration hardware. So say you have a nice house in LA, you'd like to have people over to sit by the pool and barbecue and you need outdoor furniture.

31:04So the company's called Outer, just O-U-T-E-R. This is where the old becomes new again. So there's a reason why there are furniture showrooms and automobile showrooms. Like the showroom idea has been around for 100 years, right? It's nothing new about a showroom. So pre the internet, if you wanted to buy that chair or bed, you would go into a showroom and you would test it out and then they would deliver it to you. So they thought, we're going to have one showroom. So they had one showroom that was their office, but then it's very expensive to suddenly have showrooms throughout the entire country, right?

31:35So they had this idea, what if Paula would allow her backyard to be a showroom for the company? So you buy the outer couch, okay, and it's sitting in your backyard in the Hollywood Hills. And that's actually a very interesting idea. Say I'm also living in LA and I don't want to buy that thing directly online because I want to sit on it. I want to touch it. I want to feel it. But I'm living somewhere near you. I could go onto the website, see that you've already bought it, and they had some deal with their customers where I could book to swing by your house for half an hour, go into your backyard, sit on the thing, and then you got some form of compensation.

32:12And then on top of that, if I actually converted and bought, you got something more meaningful, maybe got a hundred bucks or 200 bucks so they've now got i think last time i spoke to jake order maybe a thousand or fifteen hundred of these so-called neighborhood showrooms and here's the really interesting thing not only do they drive local demand because now joe can go to someone's house and sit in the thing but also drives up the just e-commerce sales alone and i think this is the mechanism so they started getting these neighborhood showrooms in chicago Imagine I'm living in Chicago. I go onto the website and I see there's a bunch of other Chicagoans who bought this thing.

32:52Maybe even without going and sitting on it, I can say, well, obviously this made it through the Chicago winter. It's probably okay. So even their e-com sales also went up partly by the social proof, right? So I think getting creative with offline is really, really important. And if you want to, I can actually, I can expound on, there's a company that we invested in that I think is just doing this on a whole new level. Yes, tell us. All right. So there's a great guy. His name's Mark, also like Mark Law. Ironically, Mark worked for Mark Law at Jet.com. And he and his co-founder, they had this insight.

33:31It's like, imagine you want to buy something that's really touch and feel like a chair or a barbecue thing or machine or whatever. And you could either buy it via e-commerce or you could buy it after you've actually used it. Like Carraway, right? It's a great product, beautiful cookware. You might just drop the few hundred bucks and buy it because it looks so good on Instagram. But you know what? Imagine you actually cooked with it first and saw how beautiful it was and how easy to clean. That might further increase your chance to do it. So what Mark's done is he's built a company called Minoan that does exactly that.

34:05So say you go away with your friends and your family and you stay in an Airbnb in Miami and you want to cook breakfast. And just in there is Carraway cookware. So you get to use the product. You're like, this is great. And there's a QR code. You can scan it and you can buy it. So the term that we've used internally to describe what Mark's done, and we actually wrote a paper for the MIT Sloan Management Review to get the concept out there, is we call it the everywhere store. It's a huge idea. I think it all comes down to execution. But if you think about what Amazon is, there's a great book. It's about 10 years old, written by Brad Stone, who was a very good writer from Bloomberg.

34:47And it's called The Everything Store. And it's all about Amazon. It's a great read all about that Amazon literally lost offers everything, right? Right. So the idea of Minoan is the everywhere store. And here's the simple statistic. So if you look around the world, what fraction of stuff gets bought offline versus e-commerce? So in the US, like 22 % is e-commerce. Like the rest of it is in stores. And it varies by category. So like maybe bananas, only half a percent e-commerce. You don't want to buy your bananas through a website, right? I mean, maybe Instacart, whatever. But on the other end, you might have contact lenses, might be 80%.

35:25All comes out in the wash. It's still 80 % store, 20 % e-com, roughly, across categories and countries. China's 45 % e-com, Brazil might be six. So if you just sit back and say, on average, around a random category in a random country, 80 % of the action happens in a store. I say, okay, how much time is Paula spending inside a store? Well, according to the census, two to three percent of your waking hours are in a store. So, OK, where is she for the other 98 percent of the time? And during that other 98 percent of the time, could I sell Paul or something? Like if she walked into the tennis club and she saw lemon perfect beverage, might she buy it?

36:11If she went to an Airbnb and got to cook with Brightland olive oil, might she scan and buy it? So this is the big idea that Minoan is trying to tap into, which is making physical properties more interesting by curating products and then also creating more opportunities for commerce, particularly for things that you want to touch and feel. And obviously, we think this is a great idea and it's not exactly the same, but there was an early version in Uber. I don't know if you remember this. There was a company called Cargo and you get an Uber from Hell's Kitchen and you go to the Met or whatever. and in the back of the Uber, the dude had some chewing gum and I remember this had Snickers bars and the idea was you could buy some of this stuff.

36:54And the company was a venture capital-backed company. It was called Cargo. It went bust, not because I think it's a crazy idea, but I think probably the average order value of what can be sold is a little bit small and maybe it's hard to manage the inventory to get Snickers bars in all the Ubers. Who knows? Maybe that idea, maybe someone figures out how to do it and it comes back, right? Right. Like a lot of this stuff comes back. I can see some sort of a vending, like a mini vending machine type of a model. Sure. For inside of it. Why not? Yeah. So what Mark is doing with Manoa, and he's not doing it in Ubers, but physical properties that already exist, that people are already in, he's working with the owner of that property to create various kinds of products that go in there.

37:38That's a win for the customer because you get to experience cooking with Carraway before you buy it. that's better than seeing the insta ad it's good for caraway because since you've actually used the product before you bought it you might be more predisposed to buy even more of their stuff you're more attached to it right from the get-go it's good for the property because now the property is a bit cooler because it's got all this awesome stuff in it and it's good for mark because he acquires customers sorry it's good for the founder of of the brand right because that founder of the brand acquires customers.

38:08I think as an idea, and in practice, it's already being proven out, but that to me is like a really fascinating innovation of sort of understanding where people are and what are the opportunities to show them stuff.

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39:04What's interesting about the conversation that we've just had in that we've been talking about tangible items that are often physically marketed in small geographic areas. We've just had a 40 minute conversation about innovation in business that has on the surface nothing to do with AI. and that I think if we kind of zoom out at the meta level having a conversation about innovation in business that is not an AI conversation where where we often hear the conversations that we typically hear right now are sort of the opposite everyone's talking about digital innovation other than back office support of course AI can can provide back office support to any company How do you see, as we move into a much more AI future, how does that play a role in this story?

39:56Oh man, it's a great question. So AI can really play a role in a couple of ways. So one is, as you've already articulated, right, in sort of back office efficiency. And as I was taking the train, I saw, as you do in the New York subways, an ad for some sort of AI CFO finance role. Like this will just pay all your bills and do everything in the background for a company. You don't have to think about it. So there'll be a ton of that. But I think where AI is really interesting to me is on the more kind of creative end and figuring out what people actually want and sort of how to put it in front of them.

40:33And I think there'll be some really clever innovations. I'm not technical enough to be speaking about innovation and the LLMs and the underlying technology but innovations and how people start to use this stuff so there's an example always stuck in my mind that's probably a year or so old and it was in the New York Post so I'm gonna reveal that I sometimes read the New York Post and the Daily Mail in the morning there was a kid very bright young kid and the story was all about how he'd been rejected by sort of the elite universities in the United States and why this was kind of a bit of a conundrum because what this kid had done is he'd built some kind of app that I'm sitting there at breakfast eating bacon and eggs and I hold my phone over it and it immediately from that picture tells me the caloric content and the protein and fat and everything that I've eaten.

41:22Wow. And I forget what it's called but isn't that clever right? Yeah that's great because it's so annoying to have to manually. 100%. Yeah. And this is what this guy had done. And he'd just kind of, it's a very good use case. And I think he'd build his business up to whatever, 10 million in revenue. Guy was like 19. Like, why is Harvard not knocking on his door? So I think there'll be a lot of things there. There'll be things, for example, I think a lot about customer insight work and market research before you start a company. So your ability to kind of do that now through conversations with your favorite AI, is this a good idea?

41:58Yet you could build a synthetic audience to test as to whether they actually like the thing that you're contemplating. So I'll give a shout out to a good friend of mine who's a professor at Columbia University, Miklos Savry. And he's a very good sort of academic researcher. And what he showed recently in an academic paper is one of the bread and butter things in market research is a perceptual map, right? And so you have all the different products. So, for example, let's say we did a perceptual map of business schools, since we talked about business schools. And you might have on this side of the map would be like Harvard, maybe Northwestern.

42:35And we'd say on this side of the school is like Dartmouth and MIT. And you say, what's this to me? Oh, this is about size. Here's the big schools over here and the small schools over here. So people will create these maps to see where the white space opportunity is, right? And then maybe up the top here, there's Harvard. Down the bottom here, I should have reversed. to whatever as Wharton. And so, well, that dimension is sort of quantitative orientation. This is more qualitative at the top. So often before people start with a product, they'll ask customers questions to see how the existing products are perceived.

43:07And usually the way you get that data is I say to Joe and to Paul, how similar on a scale of one to seven is Stanford Business School and the University of Chicago. And you give me a number and I get all these numbers and then I crunch them through some math and then it puts all the alternatives coming out in the map and then I figure out what the dimensions are. And you do this when you introduce new beer or sunscreen, you're looking for, and you see these things, almost every investor pitch that you see will show, here's all these other products and we're doing this different thing. So anyway, what he showed using just AI is he could reproduce these kind of maps for, I think he looked at automobile, beer and a beauty product.

43:48using AI, he could produce those maps to like 85 % of the accuracy that you would have gotten from going out and actually talking to real customers and probably paying some consulting firm$100 ,000 to do it. So that's, to me, is really interesting that that early insight work, I think, can be really supercharged through AI. So for a person who's listening to this, Yeah. They are an aspiring entrepreneur. They have a handful of ideas. Yeah. They're not quite sure which one to pursue. Yeah. And they would like to, in a very low cost way because they're bootstrapping this, they would like to go down that route and see if they can use AI to gather some customer insight.

44:31Yeah. What would the average individual do? So I think what you could do is say you want to introduce a new kind of beverage, very crowded space, right? We just saw, was it poppy, I think? Yeah. Just got bought for a couple of billion dollars by Pepsi or someone, I believe. So very crowded space. And traditionally, you might look at a map of the market and say, oh, my God, there's big opening for like prebiotic, probiotic, whatever. Let me do that. I think what you could do is you could just get into a conversation. You could use something like prompt cowboy or whatever your favorite thing is.

45:03And prompt cowboy is kind of funny because you say, I want to learn about the beverage market. and then what it does is it takes your prompt and it creates a much much more articulate longer prompt and then you copy that prompt and you send it to Gemini or whatever your other favorite is so you could start interacting and just asking it like where where are the opportunities how many brands are there tell me everything you can about like why Poppy was successful you could get probably free market research reports that have already been done just upload them into AI and ask for a perspective so even just a little bit of hacking around for an hour or so plus with your own human creativity because you can't replace that you might come to the conclusion that man i should create a brand that's like sunscreen only for kids and the way that they should apply this thing should be like through fun stickers you know like maybe that's the output but it's going to also require thinking by yourself too because the ai it does some thinking but it's more of a synthesis of what's already out there Now you don't have to hire a consulting company or have a more junior person do that.

46:10That work can be done. But what can't be done is the thinking piece. And I can give you some examples. A favorite brand that was actually discovered by our team, in particular my co-founder discovered it. We talked about this earlier. It's an amazing brand. It's kind of a cultural phenomenon. It's called Touchland. The handset. Oh, yes, the handset. And they've got all of the, I have Touchland hand sanitizer. I'm so glad. If you'd sort of spoken to AI, and I encourage the audience, if you haven't seen it, just go to touchland.com and you'll see just beautiful branded website, cool products. And so anyone who's got kids has seen this out the wazoo.

46:48So this was discovered, again, as my co-founder is always looking for, he saw this on Instagram years ago, and then we kind of built a relationship with the founder. Now, could have AI conceived of that? I'm not sure it could have, right? But if you'd gone to AI and said, man, there's this really boring category called hand sanitizer. Tell me what's wrong with it. I mean, it might tell you something, right? But what the founder, Andrea, the genius of what she did is she took something that's a functional benefit product, like her product sanitizes just as well as Purell. But she layered into it two other benefits that's very important if you're starting a business.

47:24She layered in sort of emotional benefit, like it sort of feels cool to use it. And then she layered on top of that, like what I would call a symbolic benefit. So when you and I are at lunch and I pull the touch land out and you're like, oh my God, David's so cool. Look at, he's got this watermelon. And then I share it with you, right? So she sort of layered in these additional benefits that the other thing didn't have while still retaining the core functionality. And then on top of that, there's many things that that team did that were incredible. But one of the, I think, most important was selling that product in Ulta and Sephora because I remember our team having a discussion where we were thinking about how's this product going to sell at retail and how am I going to tell Paula and Joe, the customer who's looking at Purell and now looking at this new thing and this thing's like five times the price at$10, the same quantum of Purell's only two.

48:15It turns out that Touchland's still better on a price per use basis because it's a spray, not this awful. No disrespect to any Purell people, it's not this sort of alcohol sort of goo, right? So it's a better product. It's five times the price, but on a per use, it may actually be better. So we were kind of scratching our head saying, now, how can I get that message across at the shelf? Because you're going to make a decision in a second, right, at the shelf. And then somebody, probably Andrea, realized the best way to tell that story is just sell the thing in Sephora. That says everything about that story that needs to be said without having to say it.

48:52And by the way, you're sitting there at$10 where everything else is$15 to$20 and above. And if you've ever done this, which I've done many times, if you go shopping with a bunch of fifth graders and sixth graders going crazy through Sephora, I mean, they love that thing out the wazoo. So I think for the listeners, taking something that's old, prosaic, boring, hasn't been rethought in 40 years, which is frankly most of the stuff you see in the supermarket and putting some of your human ingenuity with a bit of ai who knows what you could cook up with touchlin too that the shape of the i don't even want to call it a bottle because it's not about the shape of the container it's so unique and it kind of sized like your hand absolutely in your hand you know i mean And this is another thing that goes back to if you read about Steve Jobs, right, and how obsessive he is.

49:49And I'll tie this into Touchland. Right. I think this is true. I read one of the biographies, and it was saying about how he obsessed about, I think maybe got this from his father, that you build a bookshelf and you put it up in the room and people only see the front. And he's like, well, Dad, why'd you spend all that time making sure the back of the thing was perfect? No one's going to see it. Well, yeah, that's not the point, right? Right. Things should be done to like a very high level of quality. And I think the amount of thought that the team put into, it's got to, the haptics have to be good.

50:21Has to be something that when you pull it out of your bag, you can do it with one hand. Like that's really important. We don't want you. So every nuance of how that feels, how it looks, how you use it, how you use it in front of other people was thought through by the team to the nth degree, you know. Right. I'm thinking through like what it would actually take to do something like that, right? Because you can design something beautiful on paper, but then how do you even begin to figure out how to manufacture that? And who's going to manufacture it and who's going to do a good job and how is it going to get shipped?

50:55And so what strikes me is you need a board of directors and then suddenly things start to get very expensive. What would you say if the person wanted to build out an AI board of directors? right yeah okay funny so yeah it's a great question look there's many things you can do with ai so i'll sort of distinguish two layers so if we'd been having this conversation five years ago before ai was really in our everyday consciousness i would have said the enabling factors are kind of there what i mean by enabling factors like the ability to build a website the ability to find a contract manufacturer someone typically in asia who's going to make the thing like a lot of these things can now be done through some form of outsourcing and i had a really bright pen under undergrad student it was probably about that same time ago more or less rajesh and just for fun he wrote this tongue-in-cheek article for either forbes or fortune and it was how to build a startup in one day and he did it sort of as a joke but he really did it he built a coffee delivery company like he put up the website he somehow sourced the coffee you could already did the whole thing in a day just to make the point that for something of that scale the enabling factors are there so i think those are still there you can find all of those things but i suppose now with ai you can put some of the human component into it right so you could have the ai help you think up the marketing messaging you could have the ai process all of your invoices you could have the ai help you forecast how much inventory you need and you know I think many people may have seen this now.

52:29We spoke briefly about it just earlier, but I think the company is called Medvy. It was in the New York Times, and it's the story of a gentleman in LA who built a GLP-1 business, mostly just through AI doing all the work, figuring out how to source it, figuring out how to market it, and so on. So I think we're going to see more and more of that. We're ending part one here, but stay tuned because on Friday, David comes back for part two. And in that episode, we're going to get into the world that he actually works in now, the world, the very mysterious and opaque world of venture capital. Venture capital is the money behind almost every brand that you hear about today.

53:13Warby Parker, Harry's, Touchland, none of them exist without it. But it's a world that is basically invisible to average folks. It's this hidden pocket of investing that very few people understand. What is it? How does it work? And how are some of the incentives not what they seem? We're going to unpack all of that on Friday in part two of this interview. So hit follow so you don't miss it. In the meantime, let's review some of the key takeaways from today's conversation. Key takeaway number one, the products that might be the best fit for you are not necessarily the ones that are on your local shelves.

53:54And if you're an entrepreneur, this means that there is an opening because the strongest online demand shows up when people can't get what they want nearby. So David refers to these buyers as preference minorities. Their tastes don't match the taste of their neighbors. and so the local store never carries the thing they want. And for anyone who's selling anything, that gap is the opening. Sell to the people that the shelves ignore. And if you're selling a digital product or service, that means go to the places that are adjacent to where all of your competitors are going to. Go to the places where you may still find a few preference minorities and position yourself in the places where you'll find the people who want what you have to offer, but don't know where to find it.

54:46If I went into the supermarket in Philly and I said to some poor guy in the store, can you tell me where the Vegemite is? He's going to look at me like I'm totally insane. And why can't I buy Vegemite in Philadelphia? Well, because I'm a preference minority. There's not enough other people like me to justify the position of that product on the shelf. And so the internet's like the great liberator for the preference minority. That is the first key takeaway. Key takeaway number two, people don't pay for function. They pay for feeling. Touchland is a prime example. Touchland took a basic product, plain hand sanitizer, and the founder kept the function.

55:29It cleans your hands. It sanitizes your hands as well as Purell does. But the founder then stacked two more layers on top. First, there was an emotional payoff. Using it feels good. And then there's a status symbol. Pulling it out makes you look cool. You add this beautiful design, this great hand feel, this watermelon scent. And now with this layer of feeling and status layered atop, you're willing to pay$10 for a bottle of hand sanitizer. sir the genius of what she did is she took something that's a functional benefit product like her product sanitizes just as well as purell but she layered into it two other benefits it's very important if you're starting a business she layered in sort of emotional benefit like it sort of feels cool to use it and then she layered on top of that like what i'll call a symbolic benefit so when you and i are at lunch and i pull the touch land out and you're like oh my god david's so cool.

56:29Look at these, got this watermelon. And then I share it with you, right? Those of you, about one third of this audience has some type of small business, either a side hustle or a full-time bootstrap small business. And you're probably not selling a physical product and most of you sell digital products. But remember the function is the only part of Touchland's story that actually lives in the physical world. The two layers that are stacked on top, the emotional payoff and the status symbol, that is pure psychology. There's no manufacturing cost to that. And that's the part that translates even when you're selling digital products.

57:11So as you're selling online, your product, your service, the skill that it teaches or the problem that it solves or the result that it delivers, fulfill your function. I mean, that's your core role. But if all you sell is function, you're competing on price. And when your bootstrapped, competing on price is a death sentence. So add the emotional layer and then add the symbolic layer. What type of person is drawn to the thing that you offer? What does it say about the person when they buy the thing that you have to offer? And for those of you, this part of Hutchland's story, the way that they told a story.

57:54They put themselves in Sephora. That inherently told the whole story without even having to say a word. So your version of the Sephora shelf, that is your brand. That's your positioning. That is the identity that your customer gets to wear by virtue of interfacing with your product or service. And as a bootstrapper, The beauty is those are the layers that are the cheapest part, right? That's the cheapest thing that you can build and the hardest for a competitor to copy, right? Anyone can clone your feature list, but no one can clone the way that your product or service makes you feel, makes the people who encounter it feel.

58:42And no one can clone what it signals about them because that's built out of trust. All of that is baked into the second key takeaway. That's a long key takeaway, but it's an important one for any product or service that you're offering. So those are two out of three key takeaways. Finally, key takeaway number three. AI can run your market research for almost nothing. So before you sink any money into an idea, David describes how you can test it with AI for a fraction of what it used to cost you. He points to a CBS professor, a Columbia professor, who rebuilt the maps that companies use to spot gaps in the market.

59:29That's the type of study that used to cost six figures. And AI gets about 85 % of the way there on its own. So it's better than the 80-20. So if you are bootstrapping a side project, that is critical money saved, right? You still bring the creativity, but the expensive grunt work gets a lot cheaper. What he showed using just AI is he could reproduce these kind of maps for, I think he looked at automobile, beer, and a beauty product. using AI, he could produce those maps to like 85 % of the accuracy that you would have gotten from going out and actually talking to real customers and probably paying some consulting firm$100 ,000 to do it.

1:00:13So that's, to me, is really interesting that that early insight work, I think, can be really supercharged through AI. Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with former Wharton professor David Bell. Today's episode was part one of a two-part interview that we are doing with him. The next episode will air on Friday. And in that episode, we're going to unpack the opaque world of venture capital. What is it? What does it mean? A lot of us hear jargon thrown around, but we don't actually know the inside of how it operates. David unpacks that for us in the next episode. So make sure that you hit the follow button in whatever app you're using to listen to this so that you don't miss that upcoming episode.

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