5x Ironman, 15+ Brands: The Customer-Acquisition-First Playbook w/ Eric Hinman | AOAB Episode 38

0:00And I think that's an important lesson for entrepreneurs, you know, especially in these direct-to-consumer companies, CPG brands, like many spend too much on marketing before they really understand who their audience is and how to talk to them and how to reach them.

0:15Chris Cruz:Eric Hinman is a five-time Ironman and an early stage investor in a lot of brands you wouldn't know. He's helped build Kane Footwear, Beam, Normal Brand, and a dozen others. But the way he does it doesn't look like anything you've been taught. I'm not interested in just being a billboard for a brand. I want to have a relationship where I really provide ROI for them. He doesn't network. He doesn't do outreach. Every brand deal he has now comes from someone recommending him to someone else. And it took him six or seven years of posting content before a brand ever paid him. You know, sure, you can acquire customers, but is it sticky?

0:46Chris Cruz:He gave us the exact playbook, how to seed product, how to DM creators, how to build community that converts without ever feeling like a funnel. And the whole thing starts with you getting product in people's hands and just getting them talking. This is episode 38 of Anatomy of a Brand. I'm Chris Cruz. This is my conversation with Hyrux, world champ, entrepreneur and brand builder, Eric Hinnman. Eric, you recently posted this thing that had a ton of my brain energy going. You said, I focused on one habit per year until they became habitual. You have so much success in so many areas. So I know that mindset has to kind of translate into different areas, but unpack the patience or whatever you needed to have that kind of frame of mind to go, I'm going to focus on one of these per year because everybody wants to focus on all of them right now.

1:34Chris Cruz:Yeah. I mean, I think too many of us try to multitask when, you know, motivation is fleeting. It's so much better just to have structure. So when I first got into reprioritizing wellness, I recognized that there's a million different things you can do. And I tried to dial in one at a time. So it became autopilot. The first thing for me was hiring a personal trainer and having that commitment in my calendar every morning at 6 a.m., a 30-minute workout. and after six months of doing that, all of a sudden working out was on autopilot. It wasn't hard for me to go to the gym anymore. Like it was just something I did.

2:18And then the same holds true for diet. I spent six months to a year tinkering with different diets and until I landed on something that was working well for me. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, I know exactly what I'm gonna eat and when. I don't have to think about it anymore. And then I moved on to sleep and then I moved on to recovery and then I moved on to community And I've just built all of these things into my life in a way that it works well for me. And it's just part of my structure. You know, I don't have to think about it. I just do it. And I think that's so important to be successful in anything is, you know, it's just being really boringly consistent in the things you want to be really good at.

2:58And to do that, you know, I think the best way is structure, you know, taking your calls at certain times, working out at certain times, knowing when you're going to eat, what you're going to eat, knowing around what time you're going to get to bed each night, knowing what time you're going to wake up. Like all of these things are just on autopilot for me now.

3:14Chris Cruz:Do you, do you in that process? Because I, what I love about that is like, it truly allows you to kind of be in that thing that you're working on. But I, I wrestle with this idea of like, man, I'm, I have to beat down the comparison conversation. I have to go. I'm not where I want to, I want to be further. Or how did you have to like, or did you even wrestle with, man, this is not going as fast as I want and I got to stay in my lane? Or was there another way of looking at it? I don't know. It's something that I think about when I saw that post, I was like, I love this idea. I know the demons I have to fight off with just focusing on one thing.

3:49Chris Cruz:Yeah. Well, I mean, you've heard the saying, comparison is the thief of joy. So I recognized that fairly early on when I was showing up to races and I was thinking about, did I do enough? You know, how am I going to be as fast as these guys? They look fitter than me. And then, you know, I started to realize that everyone's on their own journey and you really just want to compete against yourself. So, you know, if you're trying to lose some weight, then that's you competing against yourself. You don't have to look at the guy who's shredded and be like, I need to be there. If you start seeing progress in the things you're doing, it will become sticky.

4:24You'll keep doing it. So I think that's the key is being satisfied with progress. And that's ultimately what I'm obsessed with now. You know, I just got back from the High Rocks World Championships and I thought I had a chance at winning my age group, but it wasn't something I was thinking about daily. All I was thinking about is I just want to put in work every single day and continue progressing. And, you know, if that leads to an amazing results in a big race, awesome. But I'm obsessed with progress. That's what keeps me going day in and day out. Just improving a little bit with my bike wattage and running a little faster at a lower heart rate and lifting a little bit more in the gym.

5:03That's what I'm obsessed with.

5:05Chris Cruz:Okay. So I love that you're calling that out. So you have this, you have five, five-time Ironman and you've, gosh, over 15 brands that you've worked with and helped and all of that. But you're saying that mindset, does that mindset apply to even to the business stuff that you've done when you're looking at the companies you've invested in and built? are you looking for like, or are you looking at it differently when you're thinking about some of the brands that you, cause you've worked with amazing companies that everybody would know for whether it's 10 ,000 Oakley, normal brand beam cane footwear, you've had so much success in these things, but is that mindset the same there?

5:39Chris Cruz:I mean, I think a lot of that is staying in my lane. I understand where I can add value. I tend to work with early stage wellness brands where they're community-oriented, they're in the sports I'm involved in, they align really well with my lifestyle. I kind of fell into this world of influencer marketing and content creation and working with brands. I had past businesses that paved the way to some freedom and flexibility that allowed me to start training for Ironman. And by training for Ironman and sharing my journey, I started amassing a small following on social media and then brands started reaching out.

6:14And it wasn't until six or seven years in to posting content on social media that I ever got paid$100 to post a picture for a brand. So I was never building with the intention of having a personal brand or turning this into a business. I just kind of fell into it. So the beauty of that is I never wanted it to feel like work. I already had work. So I've been very careful to make sure the brands I work with really align well with my lifestyle because the priorities for me are hitting hard workouts every single day, having people over to do contrast therapy, being in environments that I enjoy being in, going for a bike ride in the mountains, like all of those things are prioritized over making money now for me.

6:57And, you know, with that comes the ability to say no. And I say yes to brands where I really feel like I can add value. So all of those brands you mentioned, you know, I'm an investor in them and I felt like I could really add value by getting involved with them at an early stage, introducing them to others in my network, obviously, you know, creating content for them and sharing it to my audience. But I host a lot of community events and, you know, I literally get product in people's hands every single night. I host people for contrast therapy at our home in Denver and our home in Austin pretty much every single night of the week.

7:33Chris Cruz:What does that look like? I'm interested. What does that look like when you do, when you say contrast therapy, what does that whole process look like? Yeah, two to three rounds, two to three rounds going from a hot sauna into an ice bath. And I started doing this about 10 years ago and I started meeting amazing people. And I wasn't doing it at my home back then. I was doing it at a place called Denver Sports Recovery. And I was just having these amazing conversations. And I'm like, there's something to this. There's something to a sauna convo. And when you're in there, you know, most people aren't on their phone.

8:04It's too hot. Your phone is going to overheat. and the sauna breaks down barriers really quick. You know, when you're hot, your endorphins are racing, you're a little bit uncomfortable and I've just had so many amazing conversations in a sauna. So, you know, when we bought our home in Denver and when we built our home in Austin, we know that a big part of it was to host people for contrast therapy. And, you know, it started with just friends coming over and now it's turned into, you know, thousands of people have hit a sauna session with me just by shooting me a message on Instagram and saying, hey, I'm in Denver.

8:36Can I pop over in sauna? I see you do these 5 p.m. communal sauna hangs. And, you know, I'm going to do it every day anyways. And I'd rather do it with people. And it's how I meet new people. That's my coffee meeting. That's fascinating.

8:47Chris Cruz:Yeah. What I'm like, the common thread, even just so far in our conversation that I love is like, there's something about you going, I want this for my life. And I think there's others that share in this. And that there's not this like, all right, I'm going to build this ideal customer. And then I'm going to craft this whole experience with ideal customer. where you're like, if I like it, there's other people that like it too. And that seems to be the threat for a lot of how you've built so much momentum. Would you feel like that is the playbook you would encourage a lot of founder-led brands to think about?

9:22Chris Cruz:Or does that feel like kind of how it works for you, but may not work for others? What's your thoughts there? You know, I think too many entrepreneurs spend too much time early on trying to dial in the branding, the website, as opposed to focusing on customer acquisition. I'm very focused on customer acquisition. Whenever I start something new, it's usually because I've already acquired customers in doing it. So, you know, let's take, I have an organization called Founders Only. I put on wellness retreats for founders of companies. That literally was just from me having people over every single night to sauna.

9:57I was like, there's something to this. I can turn this into a business. I already have, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of people who'd be interested in, you know, living a day in my life. So I'm going to turn this into a business now. So yeah, with everything I do, I always start with customer acquisition. And I think that's an important lesson for entrepreneurs, you know, especially in these direct to consumer companies, CPG brands, like many spend too much on marketing before they really understand who their audience is and how to talk to them and how to reach them. And, you know, that's really something I feel like I've become an expert in is how to acquire customers, how to speak to them.

10:36And, you know, then I dial in the branding, the marketing, and typically what that looks like for me as a partner with someone who's good at doing those things, because I understand what I'm good at and what I'm not good at or what I want to do and what I don't want to do. So I have a business partner and founders only who, you know, he handles the website design and the email flows and the logistics of putting on the retreats and the online community. And, you know, I focus on what I do best is just creating relationships.

11:01Chris Cruz:And do you in the, in this process of customer acquisition, is that, is that one of the first things you're talking to when a founder comes to you for investing? Or is there something else when they bring a product to service a thing to you for investing? Cause I'm sure that happens to you a ton. What, is that the thing you're looking for? Is there other things that you're like, all right, that's one, here's two. And sometimes it's back and forth. What is the thing you're looking for when a founder comes to you? because you have such success scaling brands and helping them grow. That is one of the big things I'm looking for.

11:28Like, do you understand who your customer is and how to reach them? You know, my expertise is brand building through community events and then social media marketing. So, you know, I tend to invest in brands where I understand how they're growing their business. And, you know, then I'm also looking at LTV to CAC ratio. So, you know, sure, you can acquire customers, but is it sticky? Is it a subscription-based company? Is it a four to one LTV to CAC ratio? Meaning for every dollar you spend - Yeah, okay, unpack that for people. Yep, yep. For every dollar you spend to acquire a customer, do you make$4 on the long-term value of them?

12:09That's kind of the magic ratio I'm often looking for. And then if I'm investing in a company, I'm looking at the founder, their ability to build a team, their ability to build a company to sell because ultimately when you're making these early stage investments, you know, the only way you're going to get your money back generally is if there's a liquidity event, if they sell the company, if they go public, if they're acquired by another company. So, you know, building a company to sell is very different than building a lifestyle company. So I want to see if they have the traits to build a company that can be acquired.

12:43So, you know, oftentimes that's looking at the cap table and, you know, Hey, is a Unilever on the cap table? Okay. Well, that's interesting because they've acquired a lot of brands in this wellness CPG space. So, you know, that gives me some comfort that they probably will acquire it down the road. But yeah, I'm looking at growth. I'm looking at revenue growth, customer acquisition. And then, you know, is it where, is it just a marketing company or are they building a brand? You know, meaning is there a long-term value for the clients? I like brands way better than marketing. Okay.

13:15Chris Cruz:Yeah. Okay. Dive into that because I think that is such a nugget right there. Okay, tell us more about that. Well, so right now, let's say a brand raises$10 million, they can just spend a lot of money whitelisting, but they could be losing 70 cents for every single dollar they spend acquiring a customer. And sure, their revenue is growing, but that doesn't mean that they're spending money in a way that is sustainable and that the customer is staying with them. You know, if you see an ad on social media and it's a good ad, you might try the product, but if you don't subscribe to it, then, you know, that's a, that's a lost opportunity.

13:53And I don't see them as building a brand. And also I really enjoy like a brand makes you feel like you're part of something. It leaves you with a feeling. And those are the types of companies I really enjoy working with. Like we just had an ambassador summit in Montauk with Kane, the footwear brand I work with. You know, their team was there. They had half of their ambassador team. And, you know, we got to see the next five years of the company. We got to give them feedback on us, you know, using the product in the real world and got to bond with the other ambassadors, got to bond with the team.

14:26And, you know, for outsiders looking in, they want to be a part of that. So those are the types of companies I really like working with.

14:33Chris Cruz:Okay. If, if you had to, if you had to look at how, you know, you said you kind of stumbled into this, but then it transitioned into something else and it's become something else. Also, while the world has developed influencer marketing and some people look at it and they're like, I don't trust it. I'm scared of it. I don't know. But then there's those of you that are actually building brands and almost like there's a different term. The category, yes, influencer marketing, but there's like this term of the way that you think versus I'm a product placement for just another company. There's something different there.

15:05Chris Cruz:How do you kind of gauge that difference between, all right, the influencer market has product placement and the stuff you're doing. Like what, what are brands actually looking for and how is that different than some of the other stuff out there? Yeah. I mean, it all comes down to product market fit and the brand partnering with the right people. So, you know, once the brand understands who their audience is, make sure you're partnering with creators who have an audience instead of looking for someone who has an audience that would be really receptive to the product or service that brand is selling.

15:36And, you know, a lot of this is on the brand as well to do a good job, making sure the creator has the ammo to create good content for the brand. So right now what's working well for brands is whitelisting. And in order for what does that mean?

15:54Chris Cruz:Yeah. Whitelisting is sponsoring content through a brand's through a, through a creator's channel. So let's take Kane, for example, they would sponsor content through my channel. So I create the ad, I may not even post it on my feed, but they have access to my meta and they're able to sponsor a post through me to, you know, whatever audience they want or whatever audience meta sees is converting. and in order to do that well the brand needs a lot of content from the creator they need various hooks they need various bodies and they need various calls to action so im8 you know a brand in the wellness space they have upwards of 10 000 pieces of content loaded into meta at any one time so it it requires a lot of content you know that's why ugc content and you know just like this whole ecosystem is booming right now because that's what's working for ads.

16:53Lots of content from the creators for the brand to be able to whitelist it and test different ads. And then meta does a really good job with their algorithm of figuring out what ads are converting with what audiences.

17:08Chris Cruz:And so if we were to unpack and dive into the, um, the, that the way that you're looking at it, your knowledge that you have feels very different than someone who's like, oh, these guys want to send me a product and I want to talk about their product. You have this almost the same way that you have this rigor around your optimizing health. You have this kind of mentality. How do people start getting that mentality so they can actually look at their brands that way and or look at themselves as content creators building brands through that? Like how, what's the keys they need to have in that mindset that you have that is not the same as someone who gets shipped a product and does an unboxing.

17:50I mean, putting yourself in the other person's shoes and providing ROI, you know, those are the two hats I wear. I've been on both sides. You know, I've owned businesses, I've invested in businesses, I've raised money for businesses and you know, I'm a creator. So I've played in all the different verticals to understand what each party needs for it to be a successful relationship. And I just look at everything as ROI. You know, that's why I picked the brands I picked to work with. I'm not doing it to make money. I'm doing it to provide value. So, you know, ROI is top of mind for me. And I put myself in their shoes to understand what they need from me to make sure that it turns into a long-term relationship.

18:31You know, I'm not interested in one-off pay deals. I'm not interested in just being a billboard for a brand. I want to have a relationship where I really provide ROI for them. So I guess I would encourage, you know, influencers who may not have a business background to reach out with people who have a business background to understand, you know, how to wear that hat in the relationship. And then same goes on the brand side, like reach out to influencers who are doing a really good job for other brands to understand, you know, what works well for them when the brand is interfacing with them, you know, what, what kind of briefs work well, uh, what types of content perform well?

19:08Like I, I provide all of the brands I work with, with a B-roll folder so they can just, you know, chop up ads. I provide them with a visual hooks folder. So they have lots of ammo with like how to start videos. So I'm just, yeah, I'm not thinking about it as a one-way street. I'm not thinking about it as, yeah, I have this following and, you know, you should pay me to work with me. I'm thinking about like, how, how, how can I provide value to you? Uh, and you know, I want this to be a long-term relationship. I want it to be a win-win.

19:36Chris Cruz:That is that, that level of effort and kind of forethought for what brands are needing that if a, if a content creator and influencer could just think, cause I think they get nervous of like, Oh, I'm just going to give away too much and they're never going to pay me. There's, but there's, there's a generosity to how you look at things there. It's, there's something there that I'm like, where does that come from? where does that generous, that generous mindset and that generosity, did that always exist in you or did you have to nurture up in a small town, upstate New York and, you know, very blue collar.

20:07And I don't know, I guess I just grew up around like, be nice to people. That, that was, uh, you know, being in a small town, your reputation matters. You know, I didn't grow up in New York city where you can just screw a bunch of people over and, you know, no one ever finds out about it. So I think just having that small town upbringing, and then I went to a small college and then I lived in a small city. So I've always been in pockets where your reputation matters. So, and you know, I've always just, you gotta be known somehow. I enjoy giving, I enjoy connecting. I actually have a reel going live, I think today or tomorrow where in Stockholm, Sweden, I'm making an introduction to two of my friends who are world-class high rocks athletes to a brand I work with because they were wearing that brand on their feet, Kane.

20:52And like, I just, it's gonna, it's gonna be a real showing how I make introductions. Like I do it in the moment. I connect to people on a text thread and like, I want people to win. So, and you know, that's a lot of the contrast therapy sessions I have every single night, like a young entrepreneur messages me and you know, they message me in a thoughtful way. I'm like, come on over on Tuesday night and let's hit a sauna session at five.