What We Can Learn from Failure with Ami Colé Founder, Diarrha N’Diaye

26:02And you thought you were like ball in the hood. 100%. They could drop you somewhere, but they ain't got no money for a friends and family. There's no friends and family. I can take you to the person that might give you something, but that's not coming from your community. My uncles were still charging me, so that's another conversation. But listen, you know, it was a hustle. You know, I was just learning. I was literally watching YouTube and asking the questions, but there was no babes. This is how you structure this and that. And that's a difficult place to be because I took a lot of advice from investors.

26:31And I think the advice from investors was, you got to grow. And in order for us to unlock the next tranche of cash, we need to see full chain. We need to see this. We need to see an executive hire. And I just kept chasing those things to get to the next level. but I think like the strategy to actually sit down and work backwards and have that intention could be really difficult when you have opposing investors with opposing ideas and not a single board, you know, working towards one thing. So it was difficult. I don't think there was like a hardcore mentor pulling me through saying, hey, we've seen this done here.

27:06This is what you do. I think everyone was just bringing the best that they could. And honestly, we were solving tough questions. Multicultural brand that was serving no makeup makeup. We were not giving you Instagram, TikTok, wild worthy makeup that would stop you in your tracks. This was serving skin, emotion. It's like finding the perfect pair of jeans. It takes a little emotion and education to it, right? So it was a little bit of a slower burn. And then we're bringing that to Sephora. Is she shopping at Sephora? Wasn't she at the beauty supply? What's happening between the beauty supply store and Sephora and how are you getting her there?

27:42And a lot of that was on me to figure out how to get her there. And Sephora would support you, but like the Sephora machine is like, we are going to meet you on the second floor. How you get to the second floor is on you, babes. So once the machine is running and the engine is running, that's when we turn you on. Gone are the days where Sephora is coming in the nineties and you're like fresh beauty or you're one of 10 or you're a drunk elephant and they need you as much as you need them. There are 150 brands. So being, you know, a black owned or whatever, those optics were not enough to get that audience into Sephora to know about you, et cetera.

28:20So, and this for me actually is a, it's a very, very important distinction to make because if you believe that distribution will solve the problems to your business, you're in trouble, right? And I can take this back just thinking about my own experience. When we started Good American, we launched with Nordstrom and that for me was such an important part of the brand success because from day one, I was getting a set of data back from my own direct to consumer customer on the website. And then I was getting this sort of more legacy customer from Nordstrom that, you know, went in for a pair of frame jeans or for a pair of Page and walked out with a pair of Good American.

28:57They weren't looking for my brand. They were happening upon our brand. But right from the outset, you know, Nordstrom has 168 doors in this country. We're like, we want you in 50 doors. And I said, I can't go into 50 doors. Good for you. How'd you know that? Well, and that's the thing. I knew because, let's be honest, I'd never run an apparel company before. 50 sounded like too much. And so I asked you the question because you launched in 250 doors. I mean, Char, why didn't you say no? I want to understand. That's a great question. Because there's a little part of this that goes, is there an ego thing here?

29:36Because you're like, I'm in 200 doors. That's a great question. Was there nothing in you that went, you know what, I can't go from where I am today to 200 doors? And were there no one around you that said, listen girl, you might need to walk before you can run here. Oh, I love that question. And one thing I will say, every founder is going to say this, but I don't think ego is at play. I just needed to know what to do to get to the next step. Tell me what to do. And the conversation is you need to get into the full doors. Because Sephora came to me. I will give Sephora their credit. Let's start on dot com.

30:10I went to the investors. They said, let's start on dot com. They're like, no. Doors. Okay. Go back to Sephora. I need doors. And they're like, I literally had three-way calls with Sephora, investors and myself. Investors are like, give her more doors. Sephora's like, slow down. I'm like, what do I do?

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32:26Hindsight's a fine thing. What I would have done is said, I understand the reason my investors are looking for doors because doors is exposure. Exposure is marketing, visibility, all the rest of it. But you've got to learn to walk before you run. And so I'd have said, I want.com plus 10. Okay, that's too much. Our fleet doesn't work like that. well, then what's the minimum I can start to have a reasonable goal? And, you know, because again, it's like, what are we optimizing for here? For me, when you're starting out in wholesale, so when you're going into a retailer, you have to test and learn.

32:58That's right. You know, because not all doors are created equal, right? Usually a retailer will have an A tier door, a B tier and a C tier, meaning they will have a store that makes, you know,$20 million on a Saturday and they'll have one that does too. And you need to test your brand in each of them. So when you're looking at the fleet, you're not actually saying, I want to go into all A doors. You're saying, I want a smattering of what you have to offer. I need, you know, three A's, three B's, three C's. And I want to test and learn my way into it. I want to be on the dot com so I can understand that.

33:32But it's a lot to chew off. 250 doors out the gate because how do you finance that. Uh-huh. With 1.7 million dollars. So how did you do the math and say, I've got 250 doors I need to go into. I've only raised 2.7 million. And in hindsight, I would have loved to do that. In hindsight, can I tell you what I love to do? Please. I would have done 20 doors. I would have had a full brand expression. In 20 doors. In 20 doors. Not a half-assed in 250. No. Hello. Hello. We were on next big thing. And I do think that the investors thought, you don't pay for that shelf on next big thing. So I will caveat that.

34:15So when you technically look at the overhead, it doesn't look as expensive as an inventory play. But at that time, an inventory, it just looks like an investment. You're not calculating velocity and you're not calculating what skew will proliferate. May I just stop you there? Because again, for the audience, really important thing to remember. So just explain velocity. so people understand what we're trying to get to in beauty sales. So I'll take it even a step further back. The next big thing is that gondola or bay shelf that you walk down the aisle and you see like Danessa, all the new brands that are kind of emerging through social, essentially.

34:53I was there. You don't pay for that because that's a Sephora initiative where they want you to discover. Yeah. That's kind of your test. When they're trying to highlight new brands and it's a testing space for new brands to say, how do you resonate with customers? Are people gravitating towards you before you get shelf space, before we give you this prized piece of space in our store? Let's see how you go here. Exactly, exactly. So that is your test and learn for you and for Sephora. And then you graduate. You graduate to another one and the fixtures look even more beautiful. It's a big moment.

35:23So again, in my world, I would have had 20 doors. I know my markets because we had DTC for a year. Atlanta, New York, LA. I know your markets and I don't even know your business. Business, period, right? So I would have done that. And then I would have actually showed you who Amikoli is. It's very hard to get that experience when you're walking to those shelves. Let's be realistic. It's kind of sloppy sometimes. If you know about it already going into the store, possibly two things can happen. You go with your checklist, your Sephora checklist from TikTok. Or someone on the floor convinces you to try this company and the brand.

36:03If you don't have the capital to invest in a field team, and I would argue, honestly, if you're on the next big thing, I wouldn't invest in a field team. It's too early. Too early. Yeah. So long story short, yes, that was a very expensive bet to make. That was, at the time, what I was told to do. Pushed to do, I could say. Without the right mentorship, you'd be like, babe, you need to slow down. I don't think anyone around me was saying$250 is too much. In hindsight, that's what I want to do right now. Shaking the table. I feel like. I know. Let me ask you this question. Do you think Sephora or any major retailer for that matter is, you know, like a game changer for a brand or just a mirage?

36:45Emma. Now, in this day and age. Just questions. Because it's not just about Sephora. It's about Sephora. It's about Ulta. It's about CVS. It's about Nords. It's about Target. It's about Target. It's about all of it. Yeah. Oof. What's your viewpoint? My view is that you need to be a brand before you go into those stores. You need to know how, it's like a kid. I have a baby, right? You need to know how to walk, talk, say, hey, it's time for the potty. And then take that energy and DNA into the brand for people to meet you there. I don't think Sephora is going to make you. I think Sephora is going to propel you.

37:21So I do think that before you get into that door, your business needs to be grid tight. Your margins need to be prepared to take that distribution hit. You know, you're having healthy 85, 90 % margins on D2C. Boom, amazing. And then boom, you get into that. And you think that your complexion stick or your foundation's actually going to do more velocity for you. Again, velocity means how much you're selling by door, by SKU, by day, by week. How much are you moving? Which is the only thing that matters, right? The sell through, the velocity. That is the metric by which the retail partner is looking at your brand to say, do they remain in or are they out on the next floor set and I think listen to contextualize because I work a bit with Sephora and I understand that you know a lot of these businesses had incredibly good intentions and it has to be said that many many brands have you know done incredible business with Sephora many black-owned brands you look at Danessa for example and I'm like Danessa's killing but I do think again for the purpose of this conversation readiness ahead of you going into retail are the things that you need to be able to absolutely drill down on, because it will trip you up.

38:37And it might not trip you up in the first season or the first few months, but it will come back to get you. And by readiness, what we're talking about is margin profile. Are you able to make a profit on that product when it moves from being something that you sell and you take all the margin to when it becomes something that you're selling at a wholesale wholesale where you're having to split that margin yeah that's right so are you able to do that are you able to play in the marketing mix because each of these retailers have their own way of marketing their own website their own in-store promotions their own you know teams and they have everything if you can't be part of those initiatives that make that retailer tick then you're already on the back foot and so some of these questions are things that have to be asked Now I want to talk about investors.

39:22Yes. Because you keep saying the investors, the investors. So we got to talk about these investors. Yes, the investor here. The investor. I mean, and listen, it's fair to say, I was offered to invest in your brand. Yes. Early on. Yes. Now. Oh, this was early. Yes, I remember. Yes, I do remember. Like super early. You wrote me in at COVID times. COVID times. Because I don't think I was leaving my house. I think you had to send, we couldn't meet because. I sent you a package. I was living in Brooklyn. Yeah. And I was living in Bel Air. and I got this package and I decided not to invest. Yes. And again, for me, that was a decision because two things.

39:56I think at that point you hadn't launched. And my investment thesis is that I only ever invest in people that have a track record if it's pre-launch. And the reason for that is because I want to see somebody who has launched and they're six, nine, 12 months in and they're tracking. Yeah. Or I want to see the track record because I'm spending my own money. That's fair. So it's like, for me, it's one or the other. And I don't invest in people that haven't had a previous track record and they haven't, it was pre-launched. Right. So that was my decision. But I was like, let's stay in touch. Yep. Let's see what you're doing.

40:31I watched you. I've been a customer. It's like, I've, you know, I used to carry bundles of your product in England for my sisters. I'd be like, I'm going to support this brand. But you did find investors and you did pretty good finding investors, right? When we talk about black women massively over-indexing as entrepreneurs and founders in this country, and yet only receiving 1 % of the capital that goes into new businesses, you were one of the very, very few. What do we say? 30 women to have raised over a million in this country. Absolutely. Very, like a minuscule amount. Odds, yeah. Ridiculously low.

41:08You were one of them. Yeah. So talk about the relationship with your investors and how you were working with them. In hindsight, what worked, what didn't. Okay. So, yes, we had a plethora of investors that were, I would say, you know, we had a mix of high growth, as you mentioned, like, you know, this could take off in three years. Yeah. We could be good. And then other ones that are a little bit more hands-on, like Catherine Powers. She's one of my investors. She, you know, she's my neighbor, Catherine. Is she? We live opposite each other. I love, love, love, love. And she is hands-on. She's an operator.

41:43She understands. And I think that, you know, there was a level of patience there as well, but also this is high growth. Well, and also this is one of the things I think is really important because not all money is created equal. And one of the things that I have learned and you learn the hard way is that when you start to raise money, you'll hopefully make friends and you'll make, you know, partners if you're investors. and what I've learned is that my investors that are operational, were operators in their former lives, are infinitely more useful to me. Well, do you look at that. Than those who, you know, just came straight out of school and went into private equity.

42:23So I think about somebody like Andrew Rosen, who I can call and say, hey, Andrew, like, you know. On this deal. Five-year strategy. That's right. You know, can we talk about this? or I'm opening a store in, you know, a mall in Miami. What are you paying? Or I can say to him, you know, Andrew, this shelving in the new, you know, store is not working. What do you recommend? And he will have answers for all of those things. That is what you want. Because his experience is there. That's what you want. Yes. But you're saying you didn't necessarily have those relationships. Yeah. So, no. I had two people that I have to shout out.

42:59Ben Bennett. You know, he's a builder. And I think both Ben and Catherine both knew that we were solving a hard question. Again, like once you get to Sephora, then what? How are you getting that customer in there? Because that will require capital. So yeah, that's a relationship. And let me be very clear. I still have a great relationship with all my investors. Good for you. Yeah, so I— It's very important. You don't know when you're going to need them again. Listen, it's a small world. I mean, I know that working in the industry, all these people that, you know, that you intern with are now CEOs and editor-in-chiefs.

43:28So that was really important for me. No, relationships are really important. But what you're saying is that your investors were at odds with one another. And you weren't able to manage that because you had one set of investors saying one thing and another set saying something else. I think that generalizes it. Because I do think that at different phases of our company, we had different problems, different problems to solve for. Again, things were good until they were not. So it's like the issue, I think the major issue was like, now you're at this retailer. How are you going to sell through was the major question.

44:04And the capital required to sell through between your influencer marketing machine, you know, the cost of Meta, all of these traditional playbooks that we were using, is that working for your core customer to get her into that? That required more time. Time is money. And we require more capital to figure that out. I think in hindsight, we raise just enough to figure out one problem, one issue, one solution. Instead of raising$10 million to get you through, you know, two years. Two years to actually figure out, oh, that's the machine. It works. We're going to power through this. And sometimes that in of itself, and I think I speak to a lot of female founders who say to me, you know, Emma, I'm trying to raise a million.

44:45I'm trying to raise, you know, 1.5. And I'm like, why? You need 10. You know, the idea of, again, because a million dollars is such an enormous amount of money. But by the same token, when your goals are so audacious and when the competition is so, you know, so crazy, it's really hard to think about what you could do on$2.7 billion. And then adding the complexity of that level of retail onto that, it would have been insurmountable. Or interviewing someone who you think would be an amazing president, right? And then you're talking, you're lounging, you're schmoozing, you're coming to the LA, going to the New York, and they're like, my salary is a million dollars.

45:23Can you afford me? And by the way, you know, I could do 600K for you, but I'm going to need to hire 15 people because I'm not the operator. I am the strategist. I will go get this for you, but I need a team. I can't afford you or the team. So now we're back to point A. Because you were trying to hire a president. Oh, for sure. Why were you trying to hire a president? Because I know what I'm good at. Okay, I can do the product. I know the storytelling. I know this girl. I need someone to have my back, to build the blocks for the infrastructure, to kind of create this cocoon for us to be safe, to be able to scale.

46:00Yeah, I was going for a president, going for a CEO. And we've tried people that were not successful, by the way, that investors helped me find, that were not successful. So behind the scenes. I've had that. Yeah, you're not going to strike gold every single time. But we knew what the issue was and we knew that we needed to hire the right team. In fact, to be very transparent, I fired the entire team almost in November because we knew that we needed to get in a big girl team to get you there. We got in the big girl team and we still didn't have the track record. And we're like, actually, never mind.

46:34You don't have anything shiny to give me. You don't you're in full chain. The velocity isn't there. Sure, you have a good team. But to your point earlier about that track record. This wasn't that. Talk to me about the turning point. When did you know things were no longer going to work? Ay-yi-yi. It kept turning. Because right when I thought it was no longer going to work, we got an investment from like L 'Oreal. And these were things that were like, are we done? Are we not? You know, it was kind of like cautious optimism up until the final hour where we thought, you know, we're talking to very like prominent business owners that we could possibly acquire this company.

47:13And the deals just didn't flow through. And then as a human, especially a very intuitive one, I'm like, okay, universe, these doors are shutting. Maybe it's time. Maybe this is not going to work. And that happened up until a month before making that decision. Slowly kind of, you know, laying off the team. Slowly pulling back to preserve cash runway to make sure that we can even close out this company because that requires money too. You feel like you were in slow motion, like... Death by a thousand cuts. Yeah, death by a thousand cuts. Yes. Yes. And some investors that were working hard behind the scenes, trying to make those investments, trying to do, you know, the soft landing, as they call it.

47:56And it didn't come to fruition. At what point did you know, I have to close the door? As I mentioned, in November, we hired a new team. Badass team. When you say a new team, how many people were you talking about? Five people. Five people. Head of growth. So you're hiring five people, but you know that the business is like spiraling at this point. Did you think they could save you? Okay, let's walk back a little bit. Yeah, please. So when we hired the team, that was a handholding with the investors that were getting a new team. The team that you had was not working. We're getting you a new team and we're going to raise just enough to get them in the house.

48:33But we need a big girl team to come in, audit this business, understand the path forward, create a plan, sit down with Sephora, and then march forward. Now, this was pre-our president, pre-tariffs, and pre-other hits that were just waiting to happen, right? So by the time the team came in, actually, oh, we thought we needed to raise one. It's actually going to be$2 million. And everyone was just like, all right, like that, we're not going to give you$2 million. You know what I mean? And there wasn't a point for you where you were like, I've raised one, and I've raised 1.7. Like, what is another one going to do for me?

49:10Because at that point, the signals are there. Yeah. There wasn't a part of you that's like, I can't keep doing this, even if only for yourself. And let's be very clear. This is not a, this is a tricky thing to say. This is a business thing, right? It's not like a, you know, a minority founder thing, right? Like, if you're raising tranches of capital, you're going to be exhausted. It's a hamster wheel. You can't do your work. You can't do your job. You can't do your job. And you can't thrive in anything. Raising is a full-time job. It's a full-time job, right? So the thing is also, like, I will work.

49:45So I will do it. You know, I'm prepping for an investor call, like, weeks out of giving birth. You know, I was the one that would— Well, to add on to all of this, you had two kids. Two kids. This time. So I work hard. No doubt. I think, I think, again, it's like, was the two million going to be enough? Right. I think that's the question. But if your team, you hire a CFO, if they're telling you it's going to be enough, then you're trusting that it's going to be enough. So you're the opposite for me. I don't trust anyone. I feel like everyone's lying to me all the time. I know now. You know, but I do.

50:23I think there's a part of being a founder, a CEO, an operator where your job is to question everything. Right. And I think that diagnosing the problems and being able to take the benefit of like what is happening over and over again, like that is, that is your job, right? That is your job to say this is not working. I think the unfortunate thing for you is that there was a severe lack of anyone around you that was able to point you in the right direction. And I think that that is going to be the case for so many people. Unfortunately. Listening to this right now. Yeah. What would you, if you could go back and do things differently, thinking about around the raise, stepping into support, like really what are the key lessons that you've learned and how would you do things differently going forward?

51:15I think understanding what type of business you want to run. If you're going to go to hire out, you have to hire the big girl team early. You have to raise the capital early and you have to set out those milestones to get to those metrics and be very clear of that waterfall backwards. Like the goal is this. So year one to two, we need to be here. And if we're not there, we need to ask questions. Two to five, we need to be here. If the revenue is not here and the margin is not here, what are we doing or who are we hiring to get there? And I don't think that we did that versus actually sitting down together to understand what type of business are we building?

51:53Is it that high growth or are we taking the slow and steady route? None of them are wrong because I think that also begs the question when it comes to high growth, your cadence of launching products, you know, is that really our ethos and philosophy? If we're coming back and saying less is more, but also launching a product every quarter, you know, how does that actually work? Sitting down with Sephora to understand like when you have that one shelf space, it's one in, one out. So the product that you believe in that might take a little bit more time to market, that gots to go if you're going to be launching a new lip oil, powder, whatever have you.

52:32So I think sitting down to really map out that kind of ecosystem and what are we really building. I would also just not launch in so many doors. We ended up in 600. We launched 600 doors in August after a year in Sephora. For a year. But that must have signaled that something was going right in the 270. No, you must have been doing well. Yes, of course, we had hot spots. You had traction. Sephora. We had hot spots. Hot spots. So, Sephora. I think that this is an absolutely genius lesson in sometimes not listening to everybody around you. Because this is one of the things where to go from, if you were killing it in$250 to go to$600 is one thing.

53:16But if you had hotspots, then the hotspots should have been looked at and be tried to replicate in the remaining 600, right? Like, it's like, how do we look at all of those markets where we're tracking, figure out what the common ground is, what the similarity is, and then try to pattern match that to the remaining 600 that's in the fleet? Not let's roll into the next 600 because quite frankly, you didn't have the team, you didn't have the infrastructure and you didn't have the finance to be able to operate in 600 doors of anywhere. And wait for this, of the hotspots, a lot of that love was organic.

53:57So how do you even turn a machine on to something that is happening organically versus like, okay, we're giving this machine platform or, you know, marketing thing is giving us a row as of two. I know what to do to make it a row as a four. It was this pure love, that love that you felt when we shut down. it wasn't a measurable thing that we could apply to our strategy to get those hotspots to then make the other markets on fire. But then again, Emma, I'm in 250. There are hotspots. There's a glimmer of hope. And I need to go back out there and raise. And what we raised on was hotspots are cool, but can you give us more doors?

54:38I'm like, we got to get more doors to get more money? And they're like, yeah, Mordor's new team. And here I go. Okay, Mordor's new team. I'm going. Almost like a zombie. I'm almost like a zombie. I'm like, okay, this is, and again, this is like Harlem hustle mentality. This is what I got to do to get the bag? Let's go for the next bag. And listen, I hear you. Listen, I come from Plasta, which is like Harlem in England, right? Same, same, right? Same culture. I did not go to business school. In fact, I left school at a very young age. And so I totally hear where your decision making was coming from.

55:14I think there's some things need to come from me. Yes, you said it. Some of it is kind of a sense and it's easy in hindsight to sit here and say that. But again, you and I decided to do this podcast together because we were like, we're going to let people know. We're going to show them what it looks like to fail out loud, learn out loud with courage and make sure that the path forward is a clear one. Yes. This is my first business venture. You give me goosebumps. And it won't be your last. Of course not. Once an entrepreneur, always an entrepreneur. But everyone has questions of what happened.

55:51This is what happened. This is what happened. This is what happened. And have I learned? Absolutely. And have my investors learned? Absolutely. I think one of the first phone calls was like, listen, I thought, I wish we did things differently together. And I love that you say that because I think that the idea is always, especially when you have to shut something down, it's like, you know, oh, poor you. And I think that it is, oh, poor you. But the investors lost their money too, right? And so there is this, it's like there are no winners in this situation.

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58:49What is one piece of financial or operational advice that you maybe wish you'd have taken to heart or is a big learning for you coming out of this? Advice coming from… What advice? Let's reframe it, actually. What is a piece of advice that you would give to other founders and entrepreneurs from a finance and operation standpoint, given what you know now? Got it. But a company that is D2C is completely from a company that's full chain distribution. You have to give yourself time to know what works at Ulta, Target, Sephora, whatever. Because what's working on your website might not work on that franchise or whatever space you are in.

59:36And that's important because my margin profile for my lip oil is different from my margin profile from my skin tint, right? So if you look at the business from a P &L perspective, you're like, why is your margin going down? But your velocity, the number of SKUs that you're selling is going up. Oh, that's because we're in 600 doors from 250. So the inventory is on shelf, but we're not making as much money on that because, you know, you can crunch your margins even more. but it was a very expensive, beautiful formula. How can you optimize with what you have right now based off the learnings? You have to give yourself time and raise, if you're raising capital, raise enough money to figure out those hard questions before you put a light on match to that thing.

1:00:21Yeah, right. I also think that one of my biggest learnings is that how you start is never really how it goes. Yeah. Right, so in the beginning of like, I'll take good America because I feel like it's like, you know, the products and the journey was so similar in so many ways. But, you know, what we did in the beginning was make a very complex product, right? It was like this four-piece trouser waistband and reinforced belt loose and recovery fabric. And as you say all these things, this is just like more dollars, more dollars, more dollars. Even the, you know, the pocket lining was special because it acted as this tummy tech technology.

1:00:54Now, as you grow and you scale, putting the same amount of value into your product to every stage is very difficult. And customers were clearly saying to me, I want a sub$100 product. And I was like, well, I make jeans that are$169. And to give you everything that you want at 99 isn't possible. So we had to go, okay, are you going to trade down the customer into a cheaper product, but potentially win more customers? Are you going to then move everybody that was, you know, paying 169 into a different product? Or is there so much market share there? These are questions, decisions, and those are not things to be taken lightly.

1:01:37And so, as you said, when you're starting to, whatever you start with, once you get to that fleet of 600 doors, it might not be that that offering looks anything like that, right? And I talk about this idea of transitioning on the way up all the time, meaning things have to change. the team changes, the way you operate changes, your packaging might change, also the formulations and what you're selling might change, the product might change. And so I do think as a founder, it is your job to constantly be looking at what you're doing and saying, the business we have today, for the shape of the business we have today, what is the right business that we have to run?

1:02:17And that is a very difficult thing to do when you started with something so beautiful that got all of this traction. But at the end of the day, what you were running on day one versus what you were running when you were in 600 doors was two very different things. Two very different things. And also very quickly. The speed is a thing. The timing is a thing. Because what you're explaining right now in terms of, it's called evolution. Evolution doesn't happen overnight, right? So if you're moving so quickly, we know the problems. We actually know them. We knew that we had to improve those margins.

1:02:47And actually, we were doing that. Yeah. We increased that, You know, the margins from, you know, being at literally at one point 58 percent high. And we have paths to that being 72 percent within one year. So I would argue that that was impressive. And we did the work to do that impressive. But if you're already running out of cash, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't give you that runway again, once again, to figure out the evolution and the mistakes along the way if you're not funded for that. No. So you have to have the funding. You have to have the team. And I would argue that even with me not even having, I guess, quote unquote dream team.

1:03:30And I will give my team credit because, again, they built this thing with me. It's beautiful, right? They got you so far. They got you so far. I would still be knocking on people's doors. Former founders, existing founders. Like, hey, what's working for you over there? What's your margins? What are you charging? What are they charging you? So I would be asking those questions. So you were doing that. You were trying to get information from your industry. Oh my goodness, from everyone. From everyone, including Sephora. Whenever there was a Sephora summit, you see me next to Alison Hahn like, okay, so tell me about what happened with OCC.

1:04:03Why is it no longer here? I'm asking those questions. I'm calling on the side. But regardless, you know, you still need time and money to get that right. This is a difficult question to ask. What did you do wrong? Ooh, I love that question. Why is it difficult? Well, you know. No. You're a nice girl. You're funny. Number one, I think I went into this thinking, I think this is a tricky thing, right? They say, know what you're not good at and hire someone to do that. That's what I say all the time. But not, but you also need to have the literacy in that. Be careful. I'm like, I'm going to focus on product, people, PR, positioning, packaging, brand elevation, community.

1:04:47Oh, you got this? So if I'm hiring you for finance, I was expecting you to really kind of bleed through this. And yes, did I have literacy enough to go in and explain line by line why this went up and down? But like, babe, why did the margin go to 58? What happened here? How can we get it quicker? And I think by the time I caught on to it, it's like, is it too late? Is it too late? Or should we have gotten that quicker? Not enough understanding of what you didn't know. Yes. Is that fair? Not enough understanding of what I didn't know. That's fair. Fair. That's fair. I should have fired quicker.

1:05:22That is a... It sucks. And the feeling there was, this is my team. These people I love. Like, what is it? No. I was in disbelief that these people would risk their lives to come work for me. Risk their lives. But, I mean, again, like, I was like, this is a dream come true. Like, you want to work here? Wow. I'm so honored, you know? I think I carried... You felt so honored. Honored. While you're paying somebody to do a job. Yes. Crazy. Oh, not me, girl. Blasphemy. Nuh-uh. So I think, yeah, it was that honoring feeling. Do you think there were multiple times where you should have exited people from the business and you didn't?

1:06:00I wouldn't say multiple times, honestly. I think by the second time I knew that people had to leave. So I was learning. But those two people were too long. I only had, what, 10 people maximum at the height of us. Yeah, so two people. Two people is like the culture. It's like the culture. Totally. So when they leave, everyone feels it. But I think that, and these were people that were, I guess you could say high up. So fantastic lessons. You know, so firing quickly, having true literacy, but also not having too much literacy. I was on the marketing calls asking questions about this asset versus that asset.

1:06:33I was in way too many parts of the business doing everything, but not anything excellently outside. I mean, I can't, sorry, I'm gonna take that back because the products were great. You know, just really kind of like into many things and available to answer those calls. I was like taking calls at 10 o 'clock at night. Like, yeah, what are you saying? Like breastfeed. It was just too much, you know, and it felt unsustainable. You are very honest. Yeah. Yeah. And if I were to bring the company back, for instance, right, to your point earlier today, I would need someone with a track record of failure and success.

1:07:12because I've spoken to people that have the amazing track records that just like, this is too good to be true. I talk about that all the time. You wouldn't know what to do with my business. You don't understand Sephora. Listen, too much success actually masks so many problems in a business. You don't know what's going wrong when you're on an absolute tear. You miss a lot of things. When a business is like difficult and clunky and you have to get in there. Yeah, you uncover so many things and that's really helpful. Yeah. So I agree with you. You need somebody that you can work with that has had both journeys that can actually look ahead and see the problems before they're coming.

1:07:50I love that. They're future-proof in a business, right? And that is, it's so important to know and to have these lessons like really spilt out. I want to ask you the unpopular thing because if I was a man, I couldn't ask you this question. Let's talk about the babies. If I was a man, that's funny. Yes, yes. Well, you know, because nobody wants to, I talk about the kids all the time and I talk about how much I miss with my kids. Okay. You know, how much I don't do as a mum. You had these two babies in the middle of starting this company. Like, listen, you have the most beautiful, exceptional, heavenly children.

1:08:29So I'm not asking you about that. But when you think about the timing and you think about what you were trying to build. Yes. Like, just— It was hard. It's so hard. Thank you. It's so hard. What are you talking about? Yes. I got sick. I was so stressed out. And I don't— I think I still need time to understand was I burnt out. I don't even know. Because I was just so used to being on go. Well, I can maybe answer that for you. Well, how did you take off after each kid? What are you talking about? Off? Exactly. I knew the answer to this. I was answering a PR call on the, literally in between contractions.

1:09:08It was insane. But I'm like, this is what you gotta do. This is the thing. This is, business is hard, you know. And that has an impact. It does have an impact. On not just the business. Forget the business. That has an impact on you. Yeah. Your health, your well-being, and your ability to come back into the business. Yes, absolutely. So let's call it what it is, because I've been there. I had Lola, my second child, three months before we started Good American. she came to the launch at the Grove. And I remember that day like it were a dream. Like, you know, I remember Chrissy doing like my makeup and I thought, God, I look good, but I don't know what this face is.

1:09:50It was somebody else because like so many women that soon after having a child, I was not in my own body. I was not in my own thoughts. And this child was here and I'd brought the kid from fucking England. And then, you know, it's like we're at the Grove and the photographers are flashing and Chloe's there. And I remember Chloe saying like, are you good? And I was like, yeah. Like, no, no, I wasn't good. But the reality - What are you going to do though? What are you going to do? Well, I want to talk about the realities of it because again, we have to skirt around these issues. so much. That would have also taken a toll.

1:10:29Let's be honest about what it was. You have two kids while you've got this third child of a business where it's not all working out and it's a huge distraction and hugely draining of your energy. That's the truth of it. I thought that was normal. I thought that was just what it is. Because, you know, you turn around and you see like Whitney Wolf with a three-month-old, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, NASDAQ. I'm like, this is what, This is the grind. I worked for Rebecca Binkoff when she was literally nine months pregnant, bouncing on a medicine ball, asking for a seltzer water, preparing for New York Fashion Week.

1:11:02She did it. So you think as women, maybe we're setting ourselves up by putting those images forward of like, you can have it all. Are we setting ourselves up or is this the reality? Because my mom did it. I don't know. Yes. And our moms all did it. But it's a different thing when you are being asked to manage somebody else's idea of what your business should be because they've given a capital injection. You have a team. You have new kids. Your first and second time mom, you don't know how to do too many things that you're doing. Yeah. Right? Yes. And so I would say there's too much learning having to happen at one time.

1:11:44My mind is still, I still don't know how to silence. And that's why I told you, like I felt freedom. I get you guys can't have the lip oil, but oh my goodness, what I've been living the past six years, three of which you guys have witnessed. We just made four. Just made four. I've been, I took my second child. WWD called. I'm like, I'm not missing this. Booked a room. Took the nanny. A 10-week-old baby was on the flight from JFK to LAX. I put her upstairs. I pumped. I got dressed. I dressed when I'm wearing all, I think, you know, like all like brown. She was upstairs. And I fed her in between my meeting, my panel, excuse me, in front of this massive room that I'm like, I'm not saying no to that.

1:12:34And then I breastfed upstairs. And then I was in a car going over stats to go to my investor meeting. You did it because you didn't feel that you could say no. Yeah. A little bit of that like scarcity mindset. Yeah. Yeah. for sure. Like I can, if I miss this opportunity. Yeah, it's never going to come back again. I'll never have another chance. Yeah. Which, by the way, you know now is not true, right? Hello. Okay. Just, I just want to check. I got some sleep now. Because it's, because it's a really important point to know that when you're deserved of your moment, it's always there for you. It's always coming back.

1:13:14And I think that that's something that I suffered with myself. I speak about this all the time. I used to wake myself up in the middle of the night to answer questions that were coming from America on a contract. I'd take flights that I didn't need to take because I felt like if I wasn't there, then it wouldn't, like the deal wouldn't land. And what you learn is that none of that is true. That is all self-imposed. In your mind. And it's just honestly a fragment of your imagination. But what is real is the mum guilt, right? And I want to ask you, because I think so many mums feel this, but when you're working, when you're pitching, when you're traveling, when you're managing investors, doing the late nights, How did you cope with that piece of it?

1:13:52The mom guilt? Sometimes it's not about coping. Maybe the question is, how did you navigate it? I moved through it, similar to how I moved through fear. I was still doing something terrifying. I'll still go through it. What can I say? I think that, again, this is a good and bad thing, right? My mom was a worker. My mom would be gone. She would drop me off at school, and she'll come back home at 11 p.m. So I also think that—I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, because, of course, I miss some times with my mama. but I she inspires me but by the way that's how so many of our mothers especially single moms my mom wasn't a single mom but especially single moms like I was raised by a single mom and I made the dinner for the kids because she would get in at 9 o 'clock and that's just what it was there was no you know we've been fed this idea that we have to be there for every single milestone of our kids be there in the morning be there at night do whatever needs to happen during the day gotta get the job done I mean I certainly wasn't raised like that it would be wonderful if that were the reality for a lot of working women, especially entrepreneurial working women.

1:14:53But it just ain't. I'm sad, but I have like nanny cams and, you know, FaceTimes and I'm very present when I'm with them. And it fills my cup. Do you think that motherhood gave you a different perspective on failure? Ooh, failure is not an option for me. I think I move now with more intention. If this is going to take me away from my kids, what is it going to yield for me and for them? as the breadwinner is like, I got to bring home the bacon. So what, what do I need to do to get there without hopefully sacrificing them? You know, I, them kids in the bed with me at night, you know, like they, when I'm at home, they don't, they have no idea sometimes like, or if I have to do something, they're with me, you know, they're with me at Sephora.

1:15:42Literally my, my daughter is like literally cleaning up the shelf. She's like, mom, These are yours. What are they doing here? This is yours. So yeah, I think, again, the balance is a mirage. The failure gets me like, okay, I'm on the ground. I'm on the floor. What do I need to do to make sure that I'm failing up? And for me right now, that means sleeping. That means getting the acupuncture, getting the services, getting the massage, getting the therapy. Yes. To reframe my mindset out of what I now know as survivor mode. Again, when you're one of 30 raising over a million, you're like, the city is on my back.

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1:19:04I completely understand why you felt the weight of the world and especially the weight of the community, right? The culture. Because you had been held up as this, you know, look at this woman, she's one of only 30. She's doing these incredible things. But I really hope you know that all around us, there are mostly men building and failing and losing money and starting again. I have plenty of friends that way. And it inspired me. I'm like, you raised$82 million and walked away and now you have a new job? Interesting. It happens. Yeah. But it happens so much more than we know, right? So again, I think it's about understanding like this thing happened in a business and there are parts of it that you can learn from and there's parts of it you should learn from.

1:19:57It's not really just about you. And I think as women, we would do really, really well to understand and be able to separate ourselves. I think it's one of the reasons we're speaking today is so that we can really share those learnings and you have those learnings and you are able to speak about it in such a mature way. Like, you know, and there's not really that much distance. So I really give you so much credit for that. Thank you. But you should 100 % have another business in some way. Yes, amen. Because the benefit of everything that you've been through, the benefit of everything that you've learned, you will be able to take that with you somewhere.

1:20:34Absolutely. But as you're speaking, one thing does come up to me because the anxiety went both ways. The anxiety was the fear of failing, but also the fear of succeeding, especially because you're one of three or 30, excuse me. Like when you see Myel, Honeypot, and these brands actually making it and making that kind of success, then you still, I still have the community on my back. Like, are you going to sell out? again you only know what you know with the information that you have yes and so part of the reason that I'm doing this show is a to inform people right because we want to share the information I talk about how small it is at the top it's not small it's minuscule literally information gets passed around in this miniature little prism of like dudes and I was gonna say what we're doing here is sharing the information to the people that don't necessarily have access Yeah.

1:21:29And so it's really, really key for everyone to understand what we're trying to do here. When you build a business, when you grow a business to the point that it is on that very narrow docket to be acquired, the point is that you sell it. Acquired. Are we listening? Are we okay with this now? Because we're still having this conversation though. We cannot still have this conversation because it is to the very detriment of what it means to grow something and to start something and then see the rewards of your work. You are supposed to have an exit plan if that's what you've optimized that business for.

1:22:08Yes. Now, some people start businesses and they're family businesses that they want with their family for generations. Some people start businesses because they, you know, love and they have a deep passion for what they do and they just want this thing and they want to hold it. It's different businesses. Different businesses. But if you build a business in a commercial sector that has opportunity to be acquired and you have that come at you, you should sell that company. That's it. Can we just make space for that? And I think really understand that. And I do think, honestly, we're making, because of platforms like this, we're making strides.

1:22:42And I do think an interesting point that came out of this discourse was, well, if she sold, with this been the outpour. You know, sometimes it feels like it's like, oh, poor baby, we're comfortable there, but not ready to have those celebratory moments where people are like, oh, they're going to change the formula. We talked about that today. Well, I even think the very way that you set those two things up, we cannot be more comfortable in this space. Scarce in your mindset than in that space. We cannot. because as a culture, we cannot be comfortable in commiseration and not in celebration. It just won't work, right?

1:23:27End of. When you think about Amy Colleen now, do you think about it as a success, as a failure or as something else entirely? Both. Absolutely both. I was very successful with many things and I failed at many things. And I'm grateful for both of them. Someone always says, like, don't take a compliment personal or a dis-personal. And this is the epitome of that. Am I excited? People are excited. Absolutely. But I'm always thinking, so funny, I work, and my mind works this way when someone's like, oh my God, I love this foundation. I'm like, oh great, did you? So what would you have done differently?

1:24:01Do you think that it lasts throughout the day? Like, I'm just that way. But I am. And you know what? Speaking of legacy, like, this is my mom. You know, I named it up for my mom. She was one of the last people I told. I was terrified. I didn't want to break her heart, you know, because in someone, again, the community is so beautiful. I was reading the TikToks and watching them. One woman was just in her car. She just parked her car. She was like, you know what? We're talking about, like, this woman, this could have fed her family. You know, that acquisition, that whatever, could have been the legacy that she could feed not only my family, but my mom, my dad, you know?

1:24:41people back home in Senegal, the artists that I was just like, I can't wait to get a little cash so I can just give you the world, you know? And it took me having to talk to her and she's like, girl, Oprah knows your name. You're good. In my book, I'm like, oh, how many odds we beat to be here is in some form successful. There's no denying of that. I mean, when you wrote the piece for the cut, it felt for me like you were, it was almost like a love letter to your community. Why was it important for you to do that and to frame it that way? We started that way. It's just us. It's our DNA. You know what I mean?

1:25:16We're the brand singing in the shower. You know, sometimes we hit the note. Sometimes it's embarrassing. We always set out to be the big sister next door to help you. There was no pro makeup artistry to it. It was very much like you can take this and grab it and use it. It's foolproof. It's easy. You know, we took you through the branding and everything. I think it would be dishonest as scary, embarrassing. I'm not embarrassed by it, but like how you could feel very vulnerable putting that version of the story out there. One thing you won't do is take my voice, my idea, my grit and my love. That's mine.

1:25:52That's yours. That's all yours. It's all mine. You wrote in the article, you said, why wasn't that enough? About making, you know, a full range of colors that match all women of color. What do you think the answer is to that question? I think we answered a lot of it today. You know, it's really, truly like it's not enough. You need infrastructures and you need to have the reservoir to understand, especially if you're going out there to change systems. We're changing systems out here. That's hard work. And it requires everyone to kind of hold hands on that. So having that reservoir to understand if you're trying to build a legacy company and brand, what would evolution look like and how soon should it have started, for instance?

1:26:38Like we were in, again, I'm so frustrated sometimes, too, because we were in the motion of this. I know. We sat down with Sephora to say, hey, are you going to launch Lighter Shades? What does that look like? Are you prepared for that? You know, what's the storytelling there? And we were in the kitchen, literally working out. Because you understood that you needed to expand. Yes, we have to extend. We literally, right now, our tagline was clean beauty made for melanin rich skin. That's where we started. Yeah. If you go to Sephora right now, that tagline is different. We were ushering new chapters of evolution where we were celebrating rich stories and rich skin to be able to invite people to the table to play with us and have that kind of rich feeling, whether it's formula, texture, undertone, all of that.

1:27:26but again it required some time so in hindsight that's what I would say oh oh oh exactly you learned so much I have you really and I'm so grateful for that no I know that that really comes through what do you think the hardest day at amikola was can I say two days yeah go on give me the two days. One was team. There are certain people that just look at you with like an eye of like, you're going to take us there. So it was really hard to just be like, and I get it. Like, you know, you know, layups are hard. So I think just having that. And I think I was very transparent with my team as well. I led with pretty radical transparency.

1:28:09Like we're fundraising. It's not going successful. We need more time. We're doing this because of that. We're scaling back because of that. So I think that, you know, final, like we're not going to make it call was really tough not to do it through tears because I'm like, this is final. Once you put it out there to your employees, it's final. The second is calling my investors. I don't want to lose your money. I have to train myself even how to understand money to bring it into this company and treat it as the necessity, the energy. Like I had to really reframe my mindset because coming from an immigrant family, you wouldn't ask anything.

1:28:45Even if you were starving at home, you would never ask for money. How dare you? My dad's like, you're doing what? Yeah. So I had to reframe that and then to go back for someone to believe in you pre-seat with no track record. With all these things, I'm like, hi, we're here. This is why. This is how we got here. We need to move quick about this. This is happening. And you made those calls yourself. Yes. Every single one of them. I made myself talking to Kelly Rowland, one of my investors, like, girl. And then also learning from that, like how people respond. You know, some people are like, oh girl, like what, you know?

1:29:22And some people are like, are you okay? Did anyone give you shit? Like give me a hard shit? Hard time? No, honestly. Because behind the scenes, we were working. Yeah. You know? No one can give you as hard a time as you're going to be giving yourself. Yourself. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. So those are the two hard days. That's two hard days. And then afterwards, the community. The community. We were like expecting like, okay. Yeah, I mean, it's a little frustrating in a way because what I was seeing was that, you know, you made the announcement or, you know, the floodgates opened, the community was just, you know, speaking.

1:29:59And then your product started flying off the shelves. And I just, it's such a full sense of hope. I know, I'm like - Do we have to give this back to you? I'm like, what are you talking about? It's selling. We made literally in 10 days what we made in a year. Oh, I want to cry. Like, I literally want to cry. It's hot. It's whiplash. It's whiplash. Yep. And it's a false sense of hope, right? Because that's not sustainable once again. Exactly. The outboring isn't sustainable. There's no infrastructure around that. No, and there's no way to scale that. What are you going to do? Keep doing sad things?

1:30:35Keep closing down? Like, it's just... Be on the floor. On a pole or something. I'll run over today. And that's not my M.O. That's not my M.O. either. I am full of light and I do, I thrive off of that, you know. It took a lot to get there. And honestly, we were like, sorry, you can't get this lip oil. Like, I'm trying to get as many as we can. And hence why we had a final launch. Like, a part of that was to get people their things. You know, that was my North Star as well. So it's been difficult and it's been a lot of emotions for everyone. For everyone. And including founders. Oh, yeah. I'm hearing founder stories that make me sad because they're like, oh, if you can't, then why should I even try?

1:31:19I'm like, no. No, no, no, no, no. And that's why I'm here today to make sure you know this is where I went wrong, where I went right, et cetera, et cetera. You need to fix this because one person winning is not enough. We need 10 Danessa Myricks and Fentis. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. and I will not stop thanking you for being brave and for being honest and for saying that because the whole point is that what happens to one doesn't necessarily happen to the other, right? Some people make 150 calls to get investment. Some people get the investment the first time they ask for it.

1:31:53It's like the time, the culture, the moment. There are so many things that go into this and I think that you are a cautionary tale but you are not the be-all and end-all of what can and might happen. And I specifically want to say this to black female founders, because at the end of the day, a founder is a founder. There are stories, there are narratives, there are things that happen, there are commonalities, there are complete differences. And what you are right now is incredibly graceful for sharing your story. But it doesn't mean that what happened to you is going to replicate. I'm in a group.

1:32:29I'm like, you guys better keep going. You better keep going. You better keep going. I'm going to hunt you down if you don't. And maybe with the benefit bit of some hindsight from you. Yes. So you announced that the brand is closing this month in September. So what do you think you're going to do on your last day? Oh my God. On my last day? And I think we should talk about this too. There's no last day. I think closing happens when you're selling, but I still have a lot of things to do to wind down the company officially. Let's talk about that. I don't think people know that. My lawyers told me like, you need to be prepared.

1:32:59Like closing down a company could be as tedious and time consuming and expensive. as getting acquired. You just don't get like, you don't get the baby out of it. You don't get the glory out of it. But like, it's going to be a lot of work and without the team. Do you know what that work entails right now? Yes, I do. So we've mapped that out and we are working really closely to be able to obviously have a memo and everyone to the investors and try to figure that out. So that's that. But I think in my next chapter, you told me to do this by year, understand like what went wrong, what started to go wrong, what went right, in case there's another venture.

1:33:37And there will be another venture so that you don't repeat those mistakes. I know, again, what I'm really good at. And I know where my blind spots are. Product, community, storytelling, being able to emotionally connect with someone not even knowing them. I do think I have that gift. So let's see what the universe does with that. and I'm being cautious also of like, you know, how to make it fruitful versus scarcity. I'm so happy that I'm not in that scarcity mindset. And I think the freedom of owning your story and being transparent awards you that. Like, yes, cat's out the bag. Now there's no pretending or, you know, keeping up this facade.

1:34:16Like, here you are in a bowling alley with all these creators and community people. Oh my God, four years, amazing. You're like, I don't know what tomorrow brings. But today, I'm going to be president. I'm going to give you what you need. I'm going to share this story because I still believe in it. But I don't know what's going to happen. And I've learned to move through that, which is difficult. What do you think that anyone can learn from your journey? Do it. Do it scared. Do it with the possibility of failure. Listen, one in 10 businesses don't succeed. Can we also just talk about it? Like, listen, it is what it is.

1:34:55Business, right? You get what I'm saying? So like, you know, understanding the channel market fit. And if you're going to be adventurous or push the needle, make sure like all your partners are aligned with that. And also present to you like a lot of people ask, like, what are you going to do for us? I'm like, okay, what are you going to do for me though? Like, how are we going to actually, you know, manage this together? But stay true to what you are. and also know who you're, know the why. You talk about the why all the time. Know why you're doing this and who you're actually trying to connect to.

1:35:28Because I think that that's the biggest gift. I've gained a family out of this. Like I walk in the streets, I'm like overwhelmed with like, oh babe, you have no idea what you've done. And I'm like, oh, okay. It's true, it's true. You closed your piece in the cut saying, thank you to all of the women that let you be part of their daily routine. Oh my goodness. What do you want to say to those women now? I see you, girl. I see you, sis. It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. And I think even more importantly, I did what my mom was able to do. Come to the shop and you start to realize the locals. Locals become your friends, become your mentors, start to share secrets and things like that.

1:36:10Like that is beautiful. And we've been able to kind of create a space, a conduit to create a safe space for that type of very emotional exchange to happen. And I'm so proud of that. Can you see past the, you know, the finalization and the closure of the company to understand what's next for you? And when you say that, do you mean like tactically, like what job? Yeah. And that's the question. Are you looking for a job now? Yes, I am. I'm not going to say that for you. So it's like now you're looking for a job. Yeah. Now it's like trying to understand what the next chapter looks like where you're combining the art and the money.

1:36:50okay, as Jay-Z said this, he's like, you know, I don't ascribe to the starving artists. It's like, literally, like, how do you create something beautiful, but also something that can pay it forward? And for me, you know, that means providing not only for my family, but I'm still trying to figure out ways to give back to those artists that I see. It's just so much more to be invested in. So I'm still thinking about that, but I don't think it'll be far from what I'm doing and what I've done. What I'm doing, what I've done at Amicole is what I've done my whole career. I was a person calling an influencer at L 'Oreal.

1:37:24Sorry, but like, it's not 10 ,000. Ask for 15. If there's 150 influencers and there are five that are women of color, hi. Can we get 20 more that are, you know, multicultural if our goal, and it's always it's tied to the goal. It's money-making decisions, right? Like if your, if your goal is to acquire 1 billion new customers, it's not going to do it looking one way. So I was always doing that. I'm going to continue doing that. And I did it, you know, tactically and tangibly with product with Amicole. Yes. But it's my DNA. But it is in your DNA. And I think that, you know, when you talk about the things that you're good at, that you are uniquely good at outside of making a really beautiful product.

1:38:10It's very, very clear to me that you are an excellent marketeer. You're an excellent product person. You really fundamentally understand an audience, their needs. And when you don't, you know how to go and figure out what it is that they need. And I feel like every brand needs that. Every business needs that. And hopefully where you land is in a place where your gifts can be like really shared and can be really useful in an organization. And you'll be able to get that other side of things and that proximity to some of the business decisions and what's happening behind the scenes so that as you go forward, because I know you have another business in you at some point.

1:38:50Emma insists. I just know, do you know what it is? It's like, I see so clearly what happened. And I think it was this great convergence of a number of different things. And you said it beautifully, death by a thousand cuts. And what is interesting is your mindset right now that you know there's something in the future for you but you're not too proud to say there might be a little period in between that that I take a job that I you know have a moment yeah and figure out and understand what happened to me and then in the future do something and that just shows me that that is there for you that that's going to happen for you and I think that you're going to find you're going to find out some very interesting things about yourself and about how people view you in the next few years that are going to be very exciting for the next venture.

1:39:36And I think that that is, you know, I look at like your next few years, you're so young. You've made such an incredible impact. You are. I mean, you look so, that skin is incredible. But, you know, I really do think that you're going to be in this kind of stopgap and have this incredible learning moment that's going to give birth to something else. And there is no, I'm so cheering you on. I'm cheering you on for this next couple of years. I'll be cheering you on in the future. I have said it a couple of times in this podcast, but I appreciate you beyond, Shara, for coming and doing the hard thing and doing it because you have a true love for the women that you are serving.

1:40:19And sitting here today, you're doing exactly what you've been for the last four or five years. Thank you. You're coming out with something that nobody, nobody does. No one does it. So I'm so unbelievably grateful to you. And I know that we're going to have so many comments. We're going to have so many people getting in touch. What I really want out of this is that the right energy and the right thing comes to you. So I'm going to be wishing and hoping and manifesting and praying that the right thing comes your way because you really deserve it. I receive that. Thank you so much. Okay, now I've got Wrapify.

1:40:52questions for you. What is the first thing you do when you wake up? I pray. I do. I do. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed? Unfortunately, I'm on my screen. I'm like, I'm either watching the nanny cam, like a, like a stalker. Psycho. Or I'm like, one last TikTok. One last TikTok. Oh, it's terrible. You're in your life. I mean, that's fine. What is a book that changed your life? The Hard Things About the Hard Things. Andrew Corvitz and it's about the hard things about the heart literally the hard things about the hard things I don't know that book but the title says we all need to read it and it's very tactical as well it is uh-huh and it's and it's it's the things that I wasn't good at the hard conversations like you gots to go you gots to go this is the end of your ride for you now you know you're like see you honey and there's another one though it's about love can I just tell you a quick framing that I have just, I wish I'd have said it in the podcast, but here's always my framing.

1:41:52Anytime I have to let someone go, which happens, right? It happens in the usual course of events. It happens because I've had to do reductions in force over my time because, you know, not everything goes right. I always think deeply about that person. I really do. But the other thing that I think about is the other person that could be in that job. you not being what's needed in that role is stopping somebody else from having that role and stopping the company from thriving and therefore us being able to hire other people and it's a recontextualization I used to think of it as a bit of a cheat but it isn't because it's the truth and when you stick in a place that's not allowing you to move forward you're not helping yourself to hire more people you're actually reducing your ability so it's just I'm laughing as I go through a divorce.

1:42:42I'm like, actually, you might be stopping me from my husband. Literally. So true. Stopping you from what you're supposed to have. That's a husband. There you go. What are you aspiring to in your next chapter? I am aspiring to abundance and ease. And a different form of ease that comes through not laziness or slowing downness per se, but making sure it's actually impactful. Yeah. So by that, I think something I learned to quote, you know, even when I was younger, you work hard or you can work smart. In this next chapter, I want to work smart. Good for you. As you should. What's a beauty trend that you wish would die?

1:43:27Die. Okay. You're the person to ask. It's very controversial because I'm in Los Angeles. Go on. Go on. Fillers on the lips. Just overfilling. I just think that sometimes it's like, there's something so beautiful about aging and like expression. Yeah. I don't want to say die, but just like tone it down like two MMs.

1:43:54I love that you gave some specificity there. Just two MMs. Okay. What is one thing that you value now that you didn't value when you started AmiKolay? I'm literally going back to myself in Harlem, like on the floor, like trying to, being careful with my time. I do think that I was a yes girl. I said yes to everything, like taking the coffee with the intern and all the things that I knew I didn't have the bandwidth for, but I overexerted because I was just so grateful, you know? So I think that in that moment, I would have said like, how dare it? Who do you think you are that you can't have this call with this person?

1:44:35And I'm like, today, I'm like, I actually, I don't have it in me to give you. So if it's not there, I can't provide that for you. And I do think, though, that a lot of that has changed because of motherhood. Because I usually have to go home with the full cup so I can be a good mom. So I am very careful when I can't take that call, that meeting, I'm going to say no. And I didn't value that before. I was very terrified of it, actually. But it was really an ego thing. Like, you think you're better than? Like, you can't stop on the street and talk to that person? and now I'm like oh I kind of understand why people do say no you don't have it in you and you gotta respect that and it's not coming from I don't want to or a place of I don't like you it's like I don't got it I don't got it it's me every day I don't got it amazing thank you my darling thank you I loved you today literally thank you

1:45:36If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you love with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilead-Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, Leah Reece-Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black.

1:46:12Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.

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