Tonys Roundtable - Shoshana Bean, Rose Byrne, Joshua Henry, John Lithgow, Nathan Lane & Marla Mindelle

28:59Well, Joshua, you have been so great in a lot of shows, but many of them happen to, I think, maybe coincidentally have been revivals. There was, among others, Violet, Carousel, Into the Woods. I understand that you were pretty set on not doing another revival. So how do we end up here with you stepping into the shoes of Brian Stokes Mitchell, right, a few decades later and very wonderfully, but it doesn't seem like that was in the plans. It certainly wasn't in the plans. I think in the back of my mind, like I said, starting at the University of Miami, I listened to the Ragtime soundtrack and I thought this is the kind of work that I want to do.

29:42Just hearing Brian Stokes Mitchell just being this cavernous thing of glory. I wanted to do stuff like that. But then I had done, I was, Leah DeBestinay, who directed Ragtime, was directing a new piece of mine called The Conversation. And we were in a reading. This was 23. And on a 10-minute break, she takes me to the side and was like, you know, I have this idea. have you ever thought about Cole House Walker Jr. in Ragtime? And I just started laughing. I was like, you know, really. And she was like, I think this could be really special. And I was like, absolutely. I was working on a new musical, and after Carousel in 2018, I was like, I'm done with revivals for a little while.

30:34But that role, you know, where it can take you, I just connect so much as an artist and as a ferocious dreamer, as a musician, and as a family man with that role. So I had to jump back onto the revival train. Well, and I think you've made some other connections here as well. You're a first-generation American? Yes. My parents are from Jamaica. And so the idea, well, first they came from Jamaica and went to Canada. This is actually where we were born. And then we were raised in America, in Florida. And the idea of them having a dream for my brother, my sister, and I am the youngest of three. And what's possible here is something that is so surprising now because they see where I am.

31:3120 years into my career. And when I was going to be a musical theater major, they were like, what are you going to do now?

31:42They didn't know music. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. My dad is like an engineer. And my mom worked at an accounting firm. And that was just not in the cards. But now, I was like, this is, they get to see. and my mom's actually going to be there on June 7th. So just to have her there is going to be really special. Yeah, it's really been a dreamy moment. Well, Shoshana, let's just set the scene of your last two shows here. Hell's Kitchen wrapped up two years ago. That was tied for the most Tony nominations of any show that year. Now you come in The Lost Boys, which is tied for the most Tony nominations of any show this year.

32:27coincidence? I don't know. We'll leave that. Shoshana Factor. Yeah, the Shoshana Factor. It's interesting because I've heard you talk about there were things about these roles and that you were asked to play in these that maybe in your showstopper, in fact, in this show, Wild, you said it's made you think about your own career and things differently. I don't want to go. I'm trying to lead you somewhere. Maybe you know where I'm. I'm following you. Yeah, please. Take it away. I think it's a couple things. I think not unlike you with revivals, I really did not want to be playing another mom. And, you know, speaking into the song that you're speaking about, it's interesting to age and navigate aging inside of this business.

33:16As a woman, I feel like I relate to everything every one of you have said, talking about being pigeonholed or seen in a certain way and feeling like you have more to offer and to prove. feeling like an underdog and unseen in ways that you know you have things to offer. And so a lot of that, I navigated through saying yes to this. That was part of it. I obviously replaced Casey Levy when she decided to stay in Ragtime. And it was a last minute thing. We were going to start rehearsals in a month. And it just on paper did not feel like the next thing I wanted to do. And so through that song, Wild, I feel like I've been able to navigate reclaiming, being empowered at this age, you know, for her as a mom, for me, as a woman sort of aging and evolving in this business and wanting to be seen for all of who we are, not just the acceptable parts or what people, you know, sort of pick and choose that they want from us in any moment, if that makes any sense.

34:22Sure. But I, at this point, cannot imagine not having done this show. These people, the material, I couldn't have imagined. You know, I think a lot of the roles I've played have sort of pushed me to one end of the spectrum or another. And this one seems to allow a lot more, I can use a lot more of my colors and paint. And yeah, it's been a gift that I couldn't have seen coming. And so to watch Casey have this massive gift in ragtime and to see that like on like a soul sister level, it was sort of like just a contract. It felt like you have this and I'll say, let's do this together. And it's been so cool to literally hold her hand and walk through this season together and just have all these gifts just constantly coming from both of our decisions.

35:13Yeah, I can't imagine not having this family. Well, John, you and Nicholas Heitner go back a ways as well. In fact, we mentioned one of your Tonys came for Sweet Smell of Success, which was, I think, the first thing you two did together. Meanwhile, how do you first, I believe, through him, hear about the show giant, about Roald Dahl's darker side? And also, what makes you, you know, this is the first play written, I believe, not only produced but written by Mark Rosenblatt, looking at, you know, just sort of this moment in the aftermath of him writing book review in, I believe, 82. And then now, should he or should he not apologize for what people are interpreting as, you know, sort of anti-Semitic comments?

36:08Can you just take us through how you came to be involved? And also, I really want to underscore when, if you can break down the dates, because it kind of is unbelievable, the timing of all this. The whole experience has been unbelievable. Yes, Nick is an old friend, starting with Sweet Smell of Success. We even knew each other before then a little bit. but that was not by any conventional definition that was not a success but it was a fantastic experience for me a first time in a musical on Broadway and working with an extraordinary team of people and my friendship with Nick was the best thing to come out of it we have stayed just as good friends over the years he of course When we were doing Sweet Smell, he was asked to direct the National Theatre, and I heard his first thoughts on what he was going to do with the National.

37:13He's a man of many talents, but perhaps his greatest is as a theatre manager. And he ran the National for 15 years, invited me to play the title role in a 19th century Victorian farce by Pinero called The Magistrate, and even invited me to do my solo show on two successive Monday nights on the stage of the Littleton Theater, including the first time I did it was happened to be on my 64th birthday and I came out on stage and led the audience in When I'm 64. Anyway, that's certainly an off-ramp. But then along came 2023. I was actually negotiating with another producer, another director, to do a West End new play, which was a very interesting prospect.

38:10And because Nick and I were often just in touch as friends, I mentioned, oh, I may be in London working in the West End in the fall. And he just tapped back on email with trembling fingers. what's that play because i have something that i was about to send you he he had not wanted to send me giant yet it wasn't called giant didn't have a name yet because he and mark were still working it and they they planned to send it to me i was the only person they could imagine playing the part because Dahl is two inches taller than me. You're a pretty big guy. And an old, bald man. There's simply nobody like him and me.

38:58So I was doomed to play this role. So he said, let me just send you this. And he sent it precipitously before they really wanted an actor to read it. And it was overlong for sure. and it was full of first-time playwrights, this kind of overwrought exposition. But it was unmistakable. This is going to be something extraordinary. For one thing, Mark Rosenblatt has magical touch with dialogue, and that's what you look for. People, just their language tumbling over each other and all the language coming from six very distinct characters. And Nick Heitner collaborating with him on sort of making this into a workable and playable play.

39:51And Nick, who's done 15 terrific new plays at the National, working very closely with writers, including everything from one man to governors to the history boys and four or five or six other Alan Bennett plays. I just said, OK, I'll get out of the other one, even though we are halfway through negotiations. whenever you want to get together and work this, but a workshop is the first thing we should do. And that was in the month of April. In the month of September, Nick gathered together five other terrific actors. This is 2023. All in 2023. And it was so incredible. It was like this table, just actors reading the material with Nick and Mark side by side, slashing away.

40:43I mean, pages came out. We got rid of about 20 % of that play in the course of those three days and did a full reading of what we had ended up with at the end of the Wednesday. And suddenly you realized, oh my God, we could start rehearsing this tomorrow. It had unbelievable power, although it still had unworkable problems. So that was the beginning of more and more and more work. None of us have seen each other's plays. I saw yours. Oh, you've seen it. But you see what an extraordinary puzzle, a Chinese puzzle of a plot that comes together so brilliantly. Like, you can't believe this is a first-time playwright's work.

41:33So much of it came out of just getting smart actors together and just working it and working it with a game writer who completely trusts an expert director. David Byrne was the new artistic director of the Royal Court. He smelled out this play and said, oh, we've got to have this. The Royal Court had been on some pretty hard artistic times for about 10 years, and he wanted this as his first play. Among other things, they'd had a terrible problem with charges of anti-Semitism five years ago, of all places, the Royal Court Theater. And he wanted badly to do something that explored and addressed this problem, which was the whole idea on Mark Rosenblatt's part.

42:24He wanted to write about this strain in English society and politics. He had stumbled on Roald Dahl as the perfect embodiment of so many of these complex issues. I feel like I'm talking much more than my colleagues. No, this is wonderful, but I just want to— Your stories are so much better than mine. I thought, I have five acts to follow. I've been sitting here crying listening to you, and you're beautiful. I just so wish we could see each other act. Well, John, what I want to just underscore, though, is you guys apparently agreed to do this at the royal court on October 5th, 2023. Wow. Two days before October 7th.

43:05Wow. Which, you know, and obviously the last, you know, three years almost have only made this feel more timely and provocative and urgent. So just amazing. Now, with this next round, I want everybody to feel a little loose. I wanted to first just establish each person's backstory here, but I now please just jump in if any at any time. But I thought it'd be interesting to hear what for each of you is the moment in or aspect of your show that you're finding challenges you the most. Here we are. You've all been doing it for for a while already. And I I'd love to love to hear. And Josh is smiling at me.

43:48So he might have an idea. I got it. You got something? Oh, God. There's just, there's many in ragtime for me, but there's just one moment in a beautiful song called New Music that Aaronson Flaherty, the composer and lyricist, and the late Terrence McNally crafted so just perfectly. I think it's like one top three, like best numbers in musical theater. But for me, playing Cole House, you know, he's searching for Sarah and the music in a very ragtimey way is going, just going up to a certain note and then coming back down and going up a little bit higher and then going back down. And then eventually Cole House, after months of searching, just yells, Sarah, come down to me.

44:37And musically, it's at a very high point in my register. And so that moment is one of my favorite moments in all the musical theater. Listening to it before I got this role, but doing it every night. You know, we all have these moments in the show where it's just like, all right, here we go. Here we go. And sometimes you're in 100 % and sometimes you're ready. Like you're dreading it almost? It's an iconic moment and everyone expects it. Yeah, yeah. They're waiting for it. And I did like a breakdown. Yeah. I did a breakdown on Instagram of like training for it back to like 2024 before I even knew I was going to do it on Broadway.

45:15And that moment is just like the moment that challenges me the most. But it's so exciting. It's like when you're on the roller coaster and you're like, it's going to happen. It's going to happen, right? And then you're going down and you're like, it's happening. And then sometimes you crash and burn and your seatbelt's not on tight enough. But that's my moment. How about anyone else? Don't be shy. I mean, Rose, I'll throw, unless you want, I have heard, not an actor, the only person at this table, not an actor, but playing drunk is apparently about as hard a thing as there is to do. And that is, you are increasingly drunk throughout the show, or your character is.

45:54And the physical comedy and all of this is amazing, but especially in light of the fact that you're having to kind of calibrate it to that level of drunkenness. Is that something anything had prepared you for? I think it's hard. Do you guys think it's hard to play? Oh, yes. Why is it? It's a hard thing to capture the fine line, you know? Sort of like, why is it? Well, so that I guess it depends on, so it doesn't become, I guess, a caricature of it. It's usually when you're drunk, you're trying not to seem drunk. Exactly, you're trying extra hard to be very, you're trying to keep it together, you know, as opposed to just a generalized, oh I'm sloppy messy kind of slow totally but he structures it well through the play because it sort of starts out like that excited drunk and then confessional I love you and then falling apart and then violent so it's like it's done very well but it is challenging I'm always like oh my god how do I and just to track it right so it's that tracking thing of like and then all the drinking and the eating and all of that stuff which is just technical right but it is it's like a dance a little bit that technical but I don't know how you guys sing and stuff.

47:05Like, that's great. That's no cool to me. It is crazy. I just think it is. It's so extraordinary. We'll talk about that, Marla. I mean, like, the eight times a week of anything, again, seems daunting. But when, vocally, I mean, and I know this is Joshua and Shoshana, too, and I'd like to hear from this side of the table about that. Like, does it get any easier with time? You guys have been doing it. No. Or is it, no? Not for me, anyway. Not for me. Yeah. Well, Celine Dion songs, I mean, she's the greatest singer in the world. They're the hardest songs. They're the hardest songs on the face of the planet.

47:37So it's just like getting through it amidst all of this, amidst this time, I feel like a superhero. Yeah. For sure, because it's the highest and hardest singing of my life. But for me, the hardest moment of the show, there's a whole section of the show that's just completely improv. I wanted to ask you about that. Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. So when we were coming up with the idea, I mean, obviously it was born and bred in a dinner theater. and we didn't know how to transition from one scene to one scene. And so they're like, Marla, just like improv something. And I was like, okay. So that little tiny moment that we were doing in a basement just kind of blew up.

48:09And so now there's a whole section of the show that is just completely improv'd by myself every single night. Totally different. You could come see the show 30, 40, 80 times, 600. There's somebody who's seen it 600 times. It will never be the same show. But what is it around? So it's just transitioning from one scene. they're going from, you know, if you've seen the movie Titanic, they're on the stairs and then they're going to steerage for the first time. And Ty and Connie, the co-writers, were like, we don't know how to get them to steerage. Marla, just like, it's Celine Dion's story recounting what happened on the Titanic, which is already such a farce.

48:41So just like improv, how they got down there. So it's just blown up and like, now it's become a, there's political satire. There's, you know, I haven't seen any of the shows. So I talk about, you know, I do scenes from other shows. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, we'll sing songs. I put Connie in dresses and wigs. I make him dance. And so it's just, but thinking about that, it's one thing to do the same show eight times a week. But to have to think about something to do eight different shows a week has been the hardest challenge of my life. But it is like stand-up comedy. Sometimes I'll do something and it, like Christy Gnome, Brian Gnome, when that whole thing came out, I did a whole thing on that, gangbusters.

49:22And sometimes I do things and it falls like a lead balloon. But it's the one time that I do give myself, as hard as it is, I do give myself grace because I'm like, you know what? It'll be different tomorrow night. And if it didn't land tonight, and it, like, I'm not going to. It lands most of the time. But sometimes there are clunkers. Shoshana, any secret to doing this? I mean, without blowing out your. Well, first, I just have to acknowledge my friend because I've known her a really long time. And I know what a psychotic. I am psychotic. Neurotic. I'm neurotic. Like, I am, and she puts me to shame in terms of her self-judgment and her insanity about being in perfect voice and delivering a perfect vocal performance.

50:05Own worst enemy in that way. And so we saw each other the other day, and we're talking, and she's like, I'm just too busy to even worry about it right now. Like, I just go out there and know that whatever I'm going to get, and I'm just so proud of that because I know how hard it is to get there. but I think that there's nothing terribly challenging about my show compared to what you guys are doing on stage every night I have it easy I think our backstage is the hardest part getting up those stairs the palace is three floors and we walk those stairs every time I go upstairs that's probably the hardest part but I think what I've navigated on this one again I hate to be a broken record but just getting older and our voices change and navigating that I have the same frustration of like every time I go out there, I want to be, I want to deliver what I know I'm capable of and being tired and being sick and like not wanting to call out because I don't want these children to think that it's okay to call out and like pushing myself.

51:02But like my producer, Marcus J, I hit him the other day and I just was navigating weeks of not being well and feeling like I'm going out here every night giving you like 80 some person, like I want to be the like machine gun at a knife fight that I know I can be and it's so infuriating. And he was like, Shoshana, Steph Curry, who's one of our co-producers, this is a sportsman analogy. Steph Curry has won multiple championships and taken home multiple MVP trophies with ripped hamstrings and sprained ankles. Like, you can still go out there and be the best at your craft with it, like, not at your best.

51:39Just shut up and do your job. And I was like, it's like it unlocked something in me. And the self-judgment went away and the frustration at my limitations just went away. And I was like, it's just not about that. Do you know what I mean? Yes. I love that. I feel like this whole process for as exhausting as it can be for all of us has liberated me as a performer in many ways. Because I'm so tired that I feel like, you know what? We're doing eight billion things during the day. And when I go out on stage, if I am imperfect, if I crack or if a sloppy riff comes out, I'm like, it doesn't matter. because the gift is just us being able to do it.

52:15That's right. And I had a conversation with my sisters, and they said the greatest regret of your life during this whole process will be if you do not feel immense gratitude, no matter how you feel, to just be in this position. You have to just be grateful, and that unlocked everything within me as well. You're transformed, pal. You're a different person. Thanks. Yeah, we go back, and I'm a critic of myself, so thank you. Thank you. Well, I am curious, since our last two to weigh in on this, are our biggest veterans at the table. The heavyweights. Yes, 24 and 25 shows. You'll get there. And, John, I mean, just again, your Broadway debut, 1973.

52:54Nathan, yours, 1982. Are the things that daunted you in the early days still things that you think about, or are there other things that come along, you know, at this point? Well, it's because I'm older. I take very good care of myself. It's like an athletic event. You have to, and it depends a lot on your stamina, and you have to get a lot of sleep and all of the things you're supposed to do. And as Ethel Merman would say, you've got to live like a fucking nun. And so, you know, with something like this, the whole thing is challenging, to be honest with you. It's a big challenge. But that's why I wanted to do it.

53:45And that's why you want to play these parts is to have that challenge. And it's, you know, eight shows a week of salesmen, that's a real challenge. After all of the Tonys, we'll be doing seven, which is helpful. So lucky. But it's just, I love it, and yet it's, you know, be careful what you wish for. Are you thinking about? I'm sorry, please. No, it's just, you know, it's just you want to be giving 100%. And, you know, on the second show, on a two-show day, it becomes a little like an out-of-body experience where you think, and yet some of that works for Willie Loman because... Yeah, he's beaten down.

54:36He is having, he's all, it's all happening in his head and he's living in the past and the present at the same time. You know, what makes him, you know, these are, we're playing very flawed characters. And they're, but what makes him interesting is he's fighting to the end. He believes in what he's told his kids in this flawed version of the American dream, which is all about being well-liked. And his whole self-worth and idea of success is based on the opinion of others, which is actors we all can relate to. If you go on Facebook, everyone is looking to get liked. Right. But, and that's what sort of drives it, and the fact that he keeps thinking he's going to win.

55:24Because he is right about this and he's been searching in his head and in his past for where did it go wrong? But I know I'm right about this and I'm going to win. And when it doesn't go right, he thinks, well, biff. Biff, we're going to have that dinner. So it's an easy part to fall into self-pity or just out of exhaustion. You start to feel sorry for yourself. And yet he's got to, it's one, at the end of the scene, it's like, I'm going to that dinner and it's all going to work out. And then it doesn't. And, you know, it's about a guy who doesn't see that the people who really do like him, the people who love him, are sitting there right in front of him.

56:13And it's only when he realizes his son does love him that he's free to finally let go. So are you, I mean, there are other people here who are playing parts that have been played by others. But Rose, I don't even know, 70 years ago, who was in these parts? You know, Tallulah Bank. That's right. Okay, well, that's big. We know about Brian Soakes Mitchell. But, I mean, how many great actors have played Willie Loman and been remembered for it? And it's been from 49 through just a few years ago. So are you, is that something that you, does it kind of stay in the back of your head? Or are you able to shut that out?

57:00Or are you influenced by prior performances? That's something I'm curious to know. Oh, sure. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of them. Yeah, yeah. Going back to Lee J. Cobb on television. And yes, I was haunted. And one of them was a very close friend, Brian Denny. Right. So I have been haunted by some of that and had I've had to block it out. And and that's I mean, that's all you can do is to let go, especially with this production, which, you know, I think the reason it's all because of Joe Mantello. People find it revelatory is that he is a tougher he thinks it's a tougher and more ruthless play.

57:39and I had to let go of a lot of my own deeply ingrained feelings about the play and it's you know it was challenging through rehearsal but all you can do is go moment to moment and you know talk to the other actors and that's what starts how you start to create your own Willie Loman and what they give you what people like Laurie Metcalf, Chris Abbott, Ben Hollers and the rest of the company. You know, you find your own willing home, and I don't know, whatever it is, that's for other people to judge. But, you know, it feels, it's very different from what I initially thought it might be. I'm wondering, it's also been, you know, beyond my dreams, what has happened with it, and the fact that people have so warmly received it.

58:36Yeah. Yeah. Well, John, it's interesting because I know this is something, again, that applies to many folks in one way or another. But you've said the third act of your show is getting home because everybody stops you and wants to talk about this show. It's provoked so many think pieces and conversations and debates. It's also caused people to flock to the show. You guys made your money back in 10 weeks, which doesn't happen. So I wonder, though, if you can talk about just the kind of being part of and also observing people's, what it brings out in other people. And also just if it's made you think about things differently.

59:24Oh, of course. Of course it has. I mean, I think the best art comes from people who create things that they can't not create. And I think this came from Mark Rosenblatt. And he just simply enlisted me in telling his story. It's just a marvelous create. We have had a few conferences. We've referred to the whole difference between doing revivals and doing new material. I absolutely love new material and working with writers. You know, of these 25 plays I've done, I would say only about six have been revivals. I've worked with so many of our playwrights. One of the reasons why a lot of the shows have been flops.

1:00:17You've got to, you have got, it's very, very hard to get a brand new play, turn it into a smash hit on Broadway. This is one of the astounding things about Giant. Just the whole process of crafting it, I did six years on Third Rock from the songs, which was always working with a team of between a dozen and 15 writers. But the entire thing was the interaction of this little troupe of six or seven running characters and these 15 writers. The director's role, this marvelous man named Terry Hughes, great English director out of BBC Comedy, He knew perfectly what his role was, which was to simply referee that little space between writers and actors.

1:01:08And as a result, we were constantly, we felt like we were co-writing everything. Of course, we weren't writing, but we were constantly saying, what is wrong with this moment? Or how do we make this moment work? What made it deliriously fun was, how do we make this funny? Look for the funny. In the case of Giant, mainly because Dahl is such an extraordinarily complex man, a man who, yes, everybody's talking about the dark side of Roald Dahl, but his light side is his wit, his ability to make people laugh. He can be enormously charming. He was loved by people, by two of the characters in the play.

1:01:56They speak about him when he's offstage, about the value of this man, the genius of this man. So for me, the great challenge was navigating between this spectrum of how cruel, wittingly and unwittingly cruel indisputably anti-semitic this man was and how adored he was his work was adored but he was adored as a person i had the great advantage of knowing someone who knew him extremely well this was an an actress we most of us know maria tucci whom i worked with many times, 30 and 40 years ago. She is the widow of Bob Gottlieb, the great editor who was Dahl's editor at Alfred Knopf, the man who fired Dahl from Knopf, even though he was a money machine for them because he couldn't stand his people being treated so abominably.

1:02:56I went to Maria immediately, as soon as I read the play, and I said, tell me everything. She loved him and she hated him, And she could describe every aspect of his character that gave you that love and that hate. And I spent hours on the phone with him, including with Maria, including physically. The fact that he loved children. It's a great canard that he disliked children. He loved them. And he loved entertaining them. And he was passionate about his role as a great writer for children and a great educator of children. my job in playing this part and the trajectory of the play is revealing like peeling an onion finding the very core of his truly horrifying cruelty was to just find the reason for it where it came from my way in was to just look at all the damage that had been done to him as a person You know, ruminating on anti-Semitism, prejudice and cruelty and hatred of any kind, to me, it's quite clear it all comes from the damage to a person, the demons that that person lives with.

1:04:18So the great challenge and the great exciting process for me was just to track all those colors. Can I ask a question of him really quickly? In terms of like reading that material, obviously you have no fear approaching subject matter like this or this person. No fear of what might come, how people will sort of reflect their feelings about him onto you or what you might do. Have you dealt with any sort of backlash? Have you navigated anything? Absolutely none. None? No, no. People are, I mean, there have been a couple of instances where I've heard people say, I agree with everything he said. And I said, you, what?

1:05:02But no, I mean, what's thrilling to me is everything I just described, I think I've made it work. I think I've found those moments where people see into Dahl and, in fact, weep for him. I mean, there are these hard, he's suffered these incredible tragedies in his life. And to me, that's my rocket fuel. The humanity. You've seen it. There are those moments when you see just how much he mourned the death of his daughter or the horrifying accident that when his son was four months old that left him brain damaged for life. He suffered terrible tragedy. And his way, it's like he was angry at the world.

1:05:50I don't know whether I'm accurate. I'm not the real Roald Dahl. But to me, that's the only way I could make his story make sense. I have a touchy follow-up, but I know you've spoken about it, so I hope you'll humor me. This is a show about an author of beloved children's books who said some close-minded things that turn a lot of people off. I know that many people are very excited to see the adaptation of Harry Potter that you'll be a part of written by J.K. Rowling who has of course done similar things. I wonder if Giant has made you think about her and any of that conversation differently and I want to preface before you say anything that you have been an incredible figure in this kind of conversation going back to Garp.

1:06:45You nominated for an Oscar for playing a trans character. Nobody's responsible for anybody else's comments or behavior. But I do wonder, I think I'd be remiss to not ask, given the conversation the giant brings up, just how it's affected your thoughts on that. Well, the entire issue of J.K. Rowling's feelings about the transgender issue, it's something I take very seriously. interestingly just before I was offered I was offered Dumbledore in Harry Potter just after the premiere at Sundance of a film called Jimpa that I had made with a bunch of Australians in Amsterdam a great filmmaker named Sophie Hyde which was her own story as the mother of a trans teen.

1:07:43I played her mother. Olivia Colman played her. Her own child, Odd, played this trans teen. And it is, to my mind, it is the best and the most warm-hearted, open-hearted, and positive creation, any film or play, on this subject in total just sort of support of kindness and acceptance on this issue. And saw a wonderful opening premiere at Sundance and then got offered Dumbledore. And only months later did I really understand the depth of this issue in a lot of people's minds. J.K. Rowling created a fantastic canon for young people. I feel about entertaining young people just the way Roald Dahl did.

1:08:41And the Potter stories are beautiful. Dumbledore is a beautiful character, gay, incidentally, or not so incidentally. And it's a series of stories and episodes that are all about empathy and love compared with cruelty and hate. And to my mind, that is the great value of what J.K. Rowling has done and what I respect her for. The other thing is, I think she probably, I still have not met her. I certainly will. She's not directly involved with production, at least as far as I've experienced it. But I think, for the most part, she's a deeply empathetic person, or she couldn't have created this. Interesting.

1:09:25I just disagree with some things she seems to believe. Well, clearly, because again, you've done great work on that subject matter. So I want to close with some fun, big picture, kind of rapid fire. First thing that comes to anyone's mind. Again, don't be shy and just jump right in. What's the most unusual thing in your dressing room? Oh, I have a wonderful photograph that was brought to me by an actor named Mark Winkworth, who was in the original cast of The Changing Room, my Broadway debut 53 years ago. So there was a day, it was about a rugby team in their changing room in northern England, a cast of 22 men.

1:10:13And concurrently with us on Broadway, there was a big starry revival of the women with a whole bunch of famous women, including Myrna Loy and Alexis Smith. And the Broadway Show League staged a kind of press event, a softball team between all the men in changing room, all the women. And Mark Winkworth brought a photograph of all of us, 53 years younger, all the women and all the men in our Broadway Show League t-shirts. That's the most unusual. That's great. Anyone else? It's not unusual. I mean, I have an unhealthy addiction to sugar-free Ricolas, so much so that they have a pocket in my dress.

1:10:55We call it a boot pocket. And I stick Ricolas in there. I probably have, I want to say, like five pounds of Ricolas. If you excavate my dead body and open me up, they will just pour out of me. So I had my dressing room design. I have no other skills besides musical theater. So I did have a friend who is a designer, design. And so it's beautiful and impeccable. But man, they call me Hansel and Gretel because there's a trail of rappers everywhere. You know exactly where I am in the building based on the rapper of a Ricola. That's hilarious. Mine's a gigantic bedazzled bottle of ketchup. That seems to be the big attention getter in my dressing room.

1:11:30I was in the cast group chat one day, like, does anyone have ketchup? Does anyone have ketchup? And no one was responding. And they were talking about other things. I'm like, literally, there's no ketchup in the building? How is this possible? And for opening night, two PAs brought me the largest jar of ketchup I've ever seen, and it's bedazzled, and it's my prized possession because ketchup is truly a perfect condiment and belongs on everything. So I haven't opened it yet because it's more like a centerpiece. Well, I'm at Lincoln Center. and is bougie. Those bathrooms, if you've worked there.

1:12:05So we've got the, what do they call it? Bidet. Oh, yeah. That's probably the most famous thing. So on a two-show day, I hit the bidet. It's like, I've never had a dresser that has had that. I don't use it all the time. No, you should be honest. You use it all the time. Once a show. It's part of one of the perks of Lincoln Center. Nice. That's so magic. You know, the roundabout is so lovely. They put in the dressing rooms all the actors who were there before. So you've got, like, my friend, like, Ethan Hawke is up there. Like, you know, Lily Rabe. Like, it's magic. It's all these incredible, like, who've been there before.

1:12:43So it's like little, just, I just get lost looking at these photos that are, like, watching over you. Nice. And I just love the silence in my dressing room. It's awesome. To go in there. I've got two little kids at home. I just go. Get a break. The middle of Times Square, too. It's just silence. It's just gorgeous. Yeah. I don't have anything. Nothing good. That's fine. We'll go to the next one. That's loud. That's fine. I'll get nothing unusual. I'll get the usual. We've got to get him something unusual. Yeah, we've got to get you something weird. I'll send you something. I'll send you a camel.

1:13:13Here's the juicy one I think you'll enjoy. What's the behavior of audience members in 2026 that you currently find most annoying? Great question. The rappers and the ice. Yes, and it's always like, it's like someone pulled them aside and taught them to begin to open it in the quietest moments, which there are not many in our show. We have the loudest show on Broadway, hands down. It's always in the quietest moments, and guess who has the quietest moments? There you go. Yeah. Oh my God, okay. Amazing. I think I've heard, Nathan, you've got something at the end of a show. Maybe this is for everybody, but like instead of actually applauding or doing, which they're certainly not.

1:13:55Oh, they're filming. with their phones. Filming? It is an odd thing. You think you're not experiencing it. You're just filming it for later. It's weird. The curtain call. They just want to film of the curtain. Yeah. No, I don't know. I mean, I have, you know, that... I must say, and I should not... It's pretty quiet. I guess it's because it's so sad. It's pretty quiet. And we do hear people crying out there. But, you know, in other shows, you know, when people, because they can bring drinks or a bottle of water in, and then they drink it, and then for some reason people nervously crinkle it. Yeah.

1:14:40In the middle of it, it's always a quiet moment. And that used to drive me crazy. The other night, I were in the middle of the first act, and someone was having a seizure in the audience. Oh, that's a lot. And I was, you know, babbling on the way I have to. And they said, with the actors, I heard the stage manager say, it was like someone had slapped me across the face. I was like in the middle of this thing. And they said, please leave the stage. And I was myself and the two younger versions of Biff and Happy. And this person, we had to wait for an ambulance and a stretcher. And then we had to go back and sort of pick up.

1:15:25It was so bizarre. Like a DVR. And we had stopped. And they wanted me to go back. And I said, oh, I'm not going back. Yeah. And we walked out. And I put my head down. And I started talking in. Wild applause. Right on. Oh, my gosh. And, yeah, it was strange. I had an interesting one at your show. the person in front of me somehow thought it was like a call and response. So they were like talking in response to things that were going on on the stage. Oh, yeah. And I was like, you know. What was he saying? It was a lady, but it was just... Yeah, attention must be paid. It was basically, basically.

1:16:07Yeah, I'll pay it. That's right. That's right. I saw all my sons with Bryan Cranston. Yes. Marianne Jean-Baptiste in London was extraordinary. But this woman was on her phone next to me. The whole time. The whole time. Oh, God. Yeah. Just putting it back. And I just ended up going like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like my experience with the play was my relationship with this one. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. But she just hijacked the whole thing. Yeah, they ruined it. Eventually, she sort of saw me looking and was like, but then she did it again. And I was like. They got to throw them out. It's like, why are you.

1:16:37Go meet. Unless it is in. Go meet your friend for coffee or whatever. Unless it's in. It just was like. That's my. It gets so angry about it. I am with. We have. It's extraordinary. Yes. I say a few lines that make people literally, oh, oh, oh. But to me, that's music to my ears. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I'm in the impact business. For sure. For sure. Our show is the complete opposite of Death of a Salesman. It is like a gay Super Bowl. So it is, I have never heard an audience response in my entire life. And so it feels almost like this cult-esque Rocky Horror now where every gay man from the tri-state area, and his mother now too, are coming and they are singing, they're belting out drunk Celine Dion songs.

1:17:26And at the end of the show, we do encourage people to film at the end because it is kind of like a concert. But people think that I'm Celine Dion so much that they will sometimes rush the stage. Oh, my God. And they'll start touching me and trying to hug me as if I'm her. And so that's been, we've had to get security down. Oh, my God. So that's been pretty crazy. But maybe it's good because maybe I'm emulating her so much. I will say you're chest thumping and all this. You got her. Nailed her. Josh. Ragtime is the hardest part about one of the challenges is coming back from intermission. Cole House, the character I play, has a soliloquy.

1:18:05And something really hard has just happened in the first act, the end of the first act. So I think the audience is slow to come back, but it literally starts with me in the center of the stage in a spotlight and super quiet music. And he's just there pretty much at the side of a grave. And, well, people are still trickling in. So I'm like, you know, so it's like you're there. And Vivian Boman, it's three quarters around the audience. So seeing people just walk, walk and walk and sit down and flashlights literally. So I'm like, oh, so that's a challenge there. I did a show at the Newhouse at Lehman Center, which is the same, a smaller version of that bowl.

1:18:45And it was my solo show, Stories by Heart, in which I perform a couple of short stories as monodramas acting. And the first one is a P.G. Woodhouse story, hilariously funny. But I talk to the audience first. And as I talk and tell my own story, talk about my father, much as I did today, I noticed a man fast asleep with his wife next to him and because it's this bowl of theater everybody in the audience could see him and I was ready to begin the story and I sat down with the book in a chair to begin my PG Woodhouse and I said to his wife you might want to wake him up this is the good part and the entire audience roared in laughter he woke up And he saw 500 people laughing at him.

1:19:39And it was probably the trauma of his life. Never returned to the theater again. I love that. His first show, right? Okay, so here's another fun one. If you could snap your fingers and make it so, what would be the ideal number of performances your show would offer per week? Six. Four. Which are we losing? Matinees. Matinees are inhumane. Okay, interesting. Although I have to say, our matinees have been so crisp and wonderful. I'm a matinee fan. Yeah, I just, yeah. Yes, I love matinees too. It's like the first thing of the day. And I have more energy. Yeah. You know, there's a. The first impulses of the day.

1:20:17Yeah, and they're, they, those people really want to be there. They're grateful. So let's cancel the Wednesday nights. Yeah. Just a Saturday matinee. Maybe it's plays versus musicals. Yeah. Our matinee audiences are sleepy. Oh, really? Oh, really? Like warming up body and voice is like a nighttime event. It's so interesting. I thought you guys would for sure be like. We'll give you the win. I do love a Sunday matinee, though, because your body knows the game. We don't have, well, we have like a five-show weekend. We have the craziest girls. Oh, that's horrible. Our schedule is horrible. You know, I went to Brazil.

1:20:51They did this. They did Titanic in Brazil. And I was like, how many shows do you guys do? And they were like, two. And I was like, Brazil has it, right? Yeah, really? Yeah, I would do, I would love four shows. I mean, if I could do any, four shows. That's what I did in L.A. We did four shows. And I was like, oh, it's great. The weekends, and then you have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. One way or another, it's a very hard thing to do. When I saw Nathan in Producers, I had just begun rehearsing for Sweet Smell of Success. And Nathan knew I was doing that. We didn't know each other very well at that time, but I went to your dressing room to thank you.

1:21:27And you got up from your makeup table and said, Don't do it, Josh! No, I really don't. Do you remember that? You know, I saw Josh do the ragtime, and he's just magnificent in this. But I did think, I don't, how the hell did I ever do musicals? I don't know how it's just that he sings, you know, so gloriously. Oh, yeah. Thank you. You see that and you go, oh, my God. I heard you say something about you feel you've, that you've kind of conquered the voice because you feel so secure in your technique. I think, I don't want to give people the wrong impression. I said I've, like, ragtime made me feel like I've mastered the voice.

1:22:20Right. It's just so challenging. I just don't think there's anything harder that I've ever sung. Right. Now that I'm doing that seven or eight times a week, sometimes on five hours of sleep, I'm like, okay. If I had confidence before, I feel like I'm really— Well, you make it look effortless. Well, thank you. Got it. But to answer that question, I feel like five. Five, okay. Because then you satisfy everyone, right? Five is less than we're all doing now. You get the matinee on a Saturday for the folks that want an afternoon situation. and the producers are never going to go for four. I'm sorry.

1:22:58I know, I know. No, no, no. That's my dream world. Or maybe a double cast situation. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, almost there. Don't go for a second. Excluding family, whose attendance at your show has meant the most to you? Oh, we had Jerry Seinfeld in. Oh, that's cool. Wow. Yeah. Because our show is so funny. That's a joke. It's like a soup nut. Anyway. We had Meryl Streep. Who's that? Who's that? That was pretty great. You know, it's when people, you know what's really great is when people come back. I've had people come back and just fall into my arms weeping. Yeah. You know, who can't say anything.

1:23:49I mean, it's lovely when people are eloquent about their backstage etiquette, but when people just can't speak, that I find really, I'm really moved by that. For sure. I feel like we've done something worthwhile. One lovely thing about succeeding on Broadway is people want to come see your show. Yeah. So people from your entire life have had two high school girls. girlfriend just last night that's great women i haven't seen in 60 oh my god oh that's awesome i look pretty good

1:24:34we are we um steven spielberg came not bad that was amazing i was like oh my god that was extraordinary yeah he's obviously just such a legend and he was so um lovely and yeah it's so As long as people are laughing, I'm happy. I'm happy our job is done. That's great. I had a wonderful visit from Timothy Shalom. Oh, yeah? Who played my grandson in Interstellar. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before he was Timothy Shalom. That's great. And, you know, that's a big thing during Nick's playoff season for him to show up for you. He even mentioned that. Shoshana? I don't know. Me. Yes. three-time Tony nominee.

1:25:19I think it was cool opening night that some of the guys from the original movie came. That was really cool. Because hearing their experience, I think when you work on movies, so I'm told, it's quick. You have three weeks to a couple months and you don't really make families with each other the way we do in theater. And so them coming and sort of seeing, yeah, that was... That's great. That's great. Michelle Obama came the other day and then she came backstage and just for 10 minutes took pictures with us and told us how important the story was and how incredibly moved she was not bad I can't follow that Lauren Michaels came to see the show and obviously SNL growing up was a huge thing and then Patti LuPone came and she's featured in our musical as a cardboard cutout so it was very important what did she have to say about that?

1:26:15Well, she left after, but she said that she just had a blast and she laughed so much. That's great. And then, you know, again, my show is not a drama, but again, it is This Is Your Life. I have so many people from my past and so many people who know the journey of how hard it was to get here. So people come back and they just burst into tears out of happiness and pride. And so that has meant something because it is a— Do you guys like knowing if people— No. Oh, you love it? Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I don't know. Your mother comes, your second cousin. So Joshua's the only one that wants to know?

1:26:45Yeah, everyone's different. When you first started previews, I was like literally telling the kids backstage, just don't say it. Because we're still in our heads and in process, and it just was like too scary. Now I don't. You're okay now, yeah. I don't want to. If you ever come, don't tell me. No, I don't. It's just like. Do you think about it if you know it? Yeah, of course. I just get like, I can't like. Yeah, I can't. That makes me feel like. Chris is a good friend of my husband's, and he's like the greatest comedian. meeting of all time. And I was like, thank God I didn't know he was there because I would have just been like for someone funny, you know, I was like I just couldn't, thank God.

1:27:21I just don't want to know. I can't do it. I should hide behind. Hashtag I'm with her. I can't do it. I feel like eight shows are so hard to do, especially over a long run, that like anything that spikes my attention is, oh, okay, I just, I mean I've got the fuel to do this show, but I'd love to know. He likes to know. It energizes him. Here's the big question. Marla, what would you do if Celine showed up? Oh, I always say this. Oh, this is so great. I always say that I would fully die on stage. She would get up from the audience, walk over my dead body, and be like, okay, girlfriends, I got it.

1:27:52I'll take it from here. And the show would be exactly the same. Because she's just so kooky and heartfelt and wonderful. She could talk to anyone. It would just be the exact same show. And she loves improv. Oh, she does. Yes, Anne. Well, have you seen her in Vegas? She'll go on tangent after tangent. She has such a good sense of humor that I'm kind of... Wait, let's dig a little further here. She's sitting in a place where you can actually see her. Oh, I would die. I would die. You'd have to just avoid the whole section altogether? Oh, I would think... Ariana... Because Frankie Grande is in the show.

1:28:24So Ariana Grande came. An incredible Celine Dion impersonator and also the great singer of the North. And I had... I saw her in the opening number. I had a panic attack the entire show. So I can only imagine. They better put her in the mezzanine where I can't see her. Where I can't see her. No, I would die. I grew up listening to her. She is my icon, you know, so, yeah. So we are the Hollywood Reporter, so I have to ask, would you be interested in being part of a screen adaptation of your current production? Now, Nathan, obviously you've done that before with producers and others here have done, I mean, I think you're being filmed, John, but it's not, I'm saying, like, if they were to, I think they, are they going to be filming?

1:29:06Rose and I have the same experience, this capture, they call it. They filmed with three cameras over three nights, a performance in London, and it will be released in October. But I guess let's say you hear from Steven Spielberg or somebody, they want to do, or let's not even put, let's not put names involved. If somebody wanted to film it as a film, not filming the stage, are you guys into that? Sure, of course, absolutely. Wait, wait, let's hear it. I want to get this. So John's yes, and we're coming around. Mainly because if somebody else played it, I would stoke. You'd get first. You'd be right.

1:29:42You'd be right. Nathan, would you? Well, you know, there's a planned film of it with Jeffrey Wright and Octavia Spencer. But I don't know. Something has been held up a bit. They were supposed to film it this February, I believe, but it hasn't happened. But it would be hard to, I mean, you could do a version of it. But this particular production, it's so theatrical and abstract and psychological. You know, you could do a capture, like what you're talking about, of this stage production. But, yeah, if you were doing the film of it, it would probably, it would have to be strictly the 1949 period.

1:30:30And I think all of us feel this is a lightning in the bottle. I mean, this is a moment that can't be duplicated in any way. If it's a film, it's going to be a completely different. Sure, different. But would you even want to remain involved with that? I mean, I'm going to come back this way, Marla. Is this good? You're in? Absolutely. Well, this might be my only shot at the silver screen. So the answer is yes. Okay. I think for my particular show, you could do it like a reefer madness or like a fun, I don't know, underground kind of thing. I would absolutely want to be a part of it. Okay. Yeah.

1:31:05Joshua? A thousand percent. Yeah. So many times, I mean, you do shows on Broadway, and there's like, oh, are they going to film it? Are they going to make a movie? And for whatever reason, you might be too young or too old. And for me right now, I'm perfectly in the groove of what Cole House Walker Jr. is and with life experience and have the chops to do it. So, like, let's go. Let's go. Anybody talking about that? I'm talking way too flirty about it tonight. So should do that. I mean, it would be great to see that as a big film. Yes. Nathan, I'm going to bring it up. I'm going to bring it up tonight.

1:31:42It's such a great, great musical. I said I'm going to talk to Aaron's and Flaherty, the writing team, about it tonight. All right. Shoshana, you just mentioned. Absolutely. Yeah? I think it would be cinematically glorious. Yeah, and people love the—it would be so different from the original, but also we know there's an audience for Ray and Rose. You know, they did one with Joan Collins. It's a TV movie, A Fallen Angel. It's been a few years. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I've got to check it out. Let's see how it holds up. There we go. There we go. Okay, last question. Put it out into the universe.

1:32:18If you could play any role on Broadway that you haven't played before, what would it be? Call House Walker, too. Thank you. Very good. Good luck. That was always my answer. That was literally always my answer. They kept asking that, like, what other role would you play? And I was like, if I could body swap with you for one day and know what it's like to have your voice, that would be a dream come true. It's just also one of the best written roles. Like, it is, and they don't always write that shit for girls. So it's, yeah. I always think that I'm better off with other people's brainstorms. All the best experiences I've had have come as total surprises.

1:32:59How could you possibly see me in this role? I think many times other people are more creative about what you can do than you are yourself. When I was asked to be Winston Churchill, I thought they were mad. I said yes immediately. But I said, well, if Stephen Daldry and Peter Morgan think I can do this, well, of course I'll do it. But, no, I was terrified and thrilled. so I let things surprise me Nathan there's got to be one that you've been wanting to do well I'm doing it but yeah you know this might sound silly I mean I was using it as a punchline before but there is something about the play Harvey that fascinates me because especially for right now I also think it's sometimes it's played as farce and it's a gentler comedy.

1:34:00But I think you could do more in terms of the technical aspects of the sort of the magic of it. More than just a door opening and closing. But I see it as sort of a parable. And he not to sound pretentious, but Elwood Dowd is sort of he's like this Christ-like figure. And it's all about empathy and, you know, and kindness and the effect that it has on other people who all think he's just a drunk or crazy. And there's something about it I find very moving. And I wonder, you know, there's something about it that has intrigued me for a long time. That would be awesome. Because for right now, it would be maybe an interesting story to tell.

1:34:52I'd love to see that. Lovely idea. Rose? I love that. I'm a bit like you, John. I feel like I can't anticipate things as much of like what, but there's plays I love. Like I love God of Carnage is one of my favorite plays. I love Auguste or Sage County. Like there's these great works in the canon that I've always long admired, but I'm a little bit like that in that I feel so lucky to have had this experience and had this chance to like do a pure comedic kind of piece on stage. It's been so marvelous. And I have to also say, Giant feels like a complete experience it's been so thrilling and it's exhausting it's completely draining me and I have turned 80 years old and I can't honestly at this point I can't imagine doing another Broadway show I think this is the perfect way to round it up thank God I saw it it was a master class thank God Shoshana closes out There's got to be, aside from Cole House.

1:35:52There are a million that I wanted to play. I love new. I love new. I'm not interested in doing a revival and trying to reinvent any wheels of a dream. Yeah, new stuff. And I also want new creatives, new writers, new people behind the table, new ideas. So, new, new, new. Same. Well, congratulations to all of you. It's been such a treat to get to see all your work. And thank you for making the time to do this. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Beautiful job. Thank you. Good job. Thanks. Wow.

1:36:28Thanks for listening to Awards Chatter. We really appreciate it and would really appreciate you taking just a minute more to subscribe to the podcast and to leave us a rating and review on your podcast app. And to follow us on Twitter and Instagram, where our handle is at Awards Chatter. On those platforms, we announce upcoming guests and provide details about special live recordings of the podcast that you can attend. Until next time, thanks again for tuning in.

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