How to Build a Personal Brand Without Quitting Your Day Job - Ryan Dunlap & Njsane Courtney

0:00Ryan Dunlap: One man was a hostage negotiator, sat across from people at the worst moments of their lives and talked them back from the edge. The other, well, he climbed the corporate ladder all the way up to vice president of human resources and then built an industry leading podcast on the side, turning into a trusted voice for thousands of professionals by sharing the truths that most HR departments are too scared to say out loud. And today, they are both in the room. This is what happens when a career built on pressure meets a career built on influence. So picture this. A man sitting in his car outside a CVS, holding a pack of balloons, talking to his phone with zero followers watching.

0:39Ryan Dunlap: And then he wakes up the next morning to 10 ,000 new followers. Then 20 ,000. Then 50 ,000. And then within a day, over 100 ,000 people are watching a man untie a balloon and using it to teach the world how to survive pressure without popping.

0:55Njsane Courtney: I had a friend of mine who said, hey, man, you need to share this content on TikTok. And I said, with the dancing kids? Nah. I went and got a pack of balloons from a CVS. I sat in the front seat of my car. I put my cell phone resting against the gear shift. And I said, hey, we really need to learn how to start untying our balloons. Went to bed one night, woke up the next morning and the TikTok thing was broken. The balloon video had blown up overnight and I was like, what is this?

1:24Ryan Dunlap: That is Ryan Dunlap, former SWAT hostage negotiator, founder of Conflict-ish, author of How to Untie a Balloon, and the architect of a framework that has helped leaders across four different continents stop managing everyone else's conflict and start mastering their own. And right next to him is Jasani Courtney, a sitting VP of HR who built the show My Friend in HR into one of the top podcasts in the industry. He speaks on stages from Houston to London and is living proof that you don't need to choose between climbing the corporate ladder and building your own name. You can do both. You tend to be the sum of your five closest colleagues.

2:06Ryan Dunlap: If you hang around a bunch of people who eat poorly and don't take care of themselves and party all night, chances are you have some or all of those habits. And you want to surround yourself with people who are ambitious. They don't have to have the same goals and aspirations, but they are trying to achieve something greater. Sometimes relationships have seasons. There are times where you do have to say, you know what, I just have to move on. And in our conversation today, we talk about how a cold introduction turned into a true friendship, how a viral video became a movement, and why the people who actually make it rarely got there because they were the most talented in the room.

2:47Ryan Dunlap: They got there because they had the courage to start before they felt ready. If you've ever held yourself back because you didn't feel qualified, connected, or brave enough, this episode is your permission slip. And this is Big Swings Only.

3:22Ryan Dunlap: dot AI slash Kwame. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was me. That's the best way to support the show. I'm going to start with Ryan because look, I know Kwame's story, right? Because it's a story as old as time about, you know, hey, the need for negotiating and know how to negotiate and have the courage to just say the words but but ryan again man the number of followers that you have and and the feedback i mean i see the comments and the message that you deliver is is so timely and so needed but the question is the origin i like every good marvel movie or every good superhero movie i want to know the origin story so tell me how you started down this path of saying you know what?

4:15Ryan Dunlap: This is a message that needs to be heard.

4:17Njsane Courtney: Yeah, man. I think the cool thing about it was it wasn't planned this way. Right. And we landed here because of my intentional efforts to redevelop myself after a career transition. Right. So for those who don't know my backstory, right, I started in law enforcement and I spent a lot of time doing a lot of different things. A lot of folks become cops and they do one thing for their entire career. I did different things every week. Any opportunity I had to do something different, I signed up for it. So I did robbery task force, special operations, burglary detective, gang intelligence, special victims detective, forensic audio examiner, squad hostage negotiation, crisis intervention officer, and a whole list of other things.

5:02Njsane Courtney: And, you know, the red thread for me throughout my law enforcement career was I was I was trained and conditioned to have really, really high stakes conversations. and my wife and I were talking around the 2015 time period about me either joining the FBI or stepping out of law enforcement completely and at that time my wife was kind of tired of me getting shot at for very little money so I stepped into ministry and started serving as the director of security at our church and that was really the first moment the first time in my life I did anything that I wasn't good at. Not the ministry side, but the people side.

5:40Njsane Courtney: I struggled that first year to connect with people in ministry. And I mean, I'm talking in the mirror, like pleading with the Lord, like, please take me back to law enforcement because it was so difficult. And what I've learned, I have got language for it now. I didn't really understand it then, But the biggest challenge for me was I was a very courageous communicator, not in the sense that I was abrasive, not in the sense that I was rude, but in the sense that I was willing to have the hard conversation about the obvious issues. And I didn't realize that most other people weren't like that. You know, in a lot of ministry settings, people don't say the things they they smile and they grin and they bear it.

6:23Njsane Courtney: and I didn't have a tact for that. And so I started learning and relearning communication, not the how to have a hard conversation, but how to have a tactful conversation, how to have a soft conversation. And I realized that most of the problems I was experiencing in ministry was because of things that I had not yet figured out in myself. It was very easy for me to point a finger at all these other people and they're soft. They haven't seen what I've seen. they need to, you know, all those other things. But the reality was, um, I started asking myself questions like, well, yeah, they might be soft, but why am I so hard?

7:00Njsane Courtney: You know, they, they, they, they might have thin skin, but why is mine so thick? So I started working on me. And, and once that happened, it did open some doors for my career transformed. I went from director of security to pastor life safety to executive director of operations for that organization and And was invited to serve on the anti-human trafficking organization as an executive director. Served on two state task forces. Just did a lot of very cool things on the other side of that. But really the crux of this was in 2021, 2022, somewhere around there, I just got fed up with working for other people.

7:39Njsane Courtney: I had my own kind of realization that no matter what job I had, my function almost always became the same thing. I was always the person people called when things got difficult. I was the person people called when the conversation needed to be had, but nobody was willing to have it. And so that was really the impetus for me to think about this thing called conflict-ish. and thinking about from the standpoint of what is it that I'm uniquely equipped to do to help other leaders do that no one else is helping leaders do. And it wasn't conflict with your neighbor. It wasn't hard conversations with another person.

8:18Njsane Courtney: It wasn't negotiating a deal. It was getting honest with yourself about yourself. And so this whole idea of conflict has started with helping leaders get their own itch together from childishness to foolishness to hellish attitudes and squeamish conversations and diminish productivity, how can I help a leader honest with themselves about themselves? Which is what I did as a negotiator. It's what I did as a detective, right? When you sit across a room and you can find a way to convince someone to speak and act against their own self-interests when you are really, really good at interrogation, not to the sense where you're beating people up, but that people feel actually, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for?

8:58Njsane Courtney: Relieved when they confess to a crime you know what i mean um taking that same energy from the interrogation room into the boardroom and and that's what we've been able to do so it started off initially as coaching jesani but it turned into primarily keynote speaking um and that's a big that's a big part of what i do now you know so i'm still reconciling that so but yeah man that's really the origin of it. The real origin was I was not as equipped to navigate regular conversations. I was dope in a crisis, but when there wasn't one, I created it and I needed to find a solution to not be the problem causer, but to instead be a problem solver.

9:42Ryan Dunlap: Wow. I mean, that's such an amazing story. And I mean, and kudos to you, man, because most folks don't have the emotional intelligence to reflect internally, right? It's so easy nowadays to say that that person's the problem or that person's the reason why this is going on. And while that other person may play a factor in whatever conflict's going on, to have the emotional intelligence to stop and say, okay, that might be true, but what do I need to fix in myself or what do I need to examine to make sure that this gets better in the future or we don't run into those same issues? So that's an amazing story because most folks don't have the courage to do that.

10:24Ryan Dunlap: And so since I got you, you've got two amazing guys, gentlemen here, I want to talk about something, right? So I've been in this space for a little while and the things that I've been able to see and do, it's such a blessing, but you guys have been at it a little bit longer and it's so easy for people who see both of you online. They'd look at your feeds, they look, they do the comments to see where you are right now and just say, man, look at Kwame, man. He's on there with Mel Robbins or he's, he's rubbing elbows and having a drink with Simon Sinek. You know, you look at, you look Ryan, right?

10:59Ryan Dunlap: By the way, I keep, like in every, in every episode that I talk about Simon Sinek, because I literally have his book, Leaders Eat Last. That's one of my Bibles up there. Simon Sinek is actually going to be at the SHRM conference. Simon, he's my mentor. Holler at your boy. He doesn't even know he's my mentor, but he is. And then, Ryan, with the massive following and the way people have gravitated by the hundreds of thousands to your content, it's easy for people to look at where you guys are right now and just say, yeah, well, they've made it and they're the exceptions. but they don't see that what it took to go from there to where you are now and to build this empire or build this business or just build this this uh this effort Kwame starting with you like talk about the evolution about of where you started to where you got here got to and what was the biggest like wow this is a thing this is not a hobby this is a real thing yeah the listeners it's a really funny story, Jasani, because I've recognized that the building element of what I do has become kind of noteworthy, perhaps even more noteworthy than the negotiation stuff.

12:14Ryan Dunlap: So what's been interesting is that, just like you said, there are going to be some bright spots where it's like, oh, this is just something I can do. Hold up. There might be something here. Oh, wait, I got money for this? No way, type of thing. And so now what's happening is people have been asking, hey, what's the PR team you use? And I say, it's not a PR team, it's my team. I built this, my team. And so I'm recognizing now that something that I do, I've done very well is build thought leadership and build a business that is kind of melded around your authenticity. You know, so it's interesting to see the different layers.

12:51Ryan Dunlap: So let's start at the very, very beginning. So for me as a lawyer, I was practicing law. I didn't want to be a lawyer, though. That was the interesting thing. like I which is which is odd for somebody who went to law school they're like let me tell you let me walk you through this let me walk you through it so I was psychology degree that was the undergrad wanted to be a therapist and then I said well as a therapist I can only help one person um but if I shape public policy as a politician then I could help more helping people is always the goal and so then I got my law degree and a master of public policy I was doing that at the same time and I discovered something really interesting I discovered that I didn't want to be a politician.

13:33Ryan Dunlap: I said, as I did more research, I was like, all of this is BS. This is ridiculous. And there's no way for me to be a competitive politician without taking money. And people are not giving that money away for free. So you're just going to be owned at a different level. So I'm like, I don't want to do this. So I was getting sworn in asking myself, what do I want to be when I grow up? Because I didn't know. And so really this negotiation stuff, all of this is me going back to my original love of psychology. And I was trying to find a way back. So I was practicing law, but I started my own law firm after doing some policy work.

14:11Ryan Dunlap: And I said, okay, well, what is, I had to have kind of like a come to Jesus moment. Cause I was like, I never wanted to be a lawyer, but here I am. But what is the thing that I like doing the most? And I asked myself this question. I said, if I could, what would I do if everything in the world was free? And I sat with that for months. And then I said, you know what? I would teach people how to negotiate. And how did I get to that? Because you all know like the prepackaged story about it. It's like, oh, it's a people pleaser. Then I found negotiation, blah, blah, blah. But the way that I was building the law firm was by doing free negotiation trainings around the city.

14:50Ryan Dunlap: And that was my way of realizing that other people needed this, number one. I enjoyed teaching it. And then I said, what if I could figure out a way to monetize it? And there wasn't anything around here that looked like this. So I said, let me just build it. So I started that. And I said, let me just start with a podcast. Because I loved podcasts. And I said, the biggest issue that I'm going to have right now is the fact that I'm 27 years old. There was no such thing as a young negotiation expert. And so I said, how could I figure this out through psychology? So a lot of my strategy is built on bias.

15:28Ryan Dunlap: So I said, OK, most negotiation experts are older and they don't look like me either. So let me find a name that sounds old and established. So that's why I named it the American Negotiation Institute. It sounds old money. I didn't call myself CEO. I called myself director. So it looked like somebody else chose me. And I did that for a while. And I said, when you think about age bias, age bias is a proxy for I don't know if you can do what you say you can do because you're young. So I started doing the podcast to show that I knew what I was talking about. So I was doing that for a few months. And then a lawyer reached out to me.

16:04Ryan Dunlap: And I thought it was spam. I had so little confidence in all of this. I was like, there's no possible way. This is a real opportunity. But I said, I've got nothing to do. Let me call this guy. And he said, I've been listening to your podcast for a long time. And I've got this really sticky negotiation. And I'd like your help. I've been practicing law for 28 years. And I really struggle with the personal side of it. And I said to myself, as he was having that conversation with me, I said, you know what? This man has no clue that I have been walking this earth for 27 years, even though he's been practicing for 28.

16:38Ryan Dunlap: But he brought me on. I made the money. We closed the deal. It was a multimillion dollar federal case. It was really, really interesting. And it worked. And so I did more consulting with him, closed another deal. It was really good. And I said, there might be something here. And so that was the bright spot. And I think now at this point, like I've created a methodical approach for building thought leadership. And now the next element of what I want to add to the business is helping other people do the same. So how can other people create thought leadership and also make a business that actually works for them?

17:18Ryan Dunlap: Because for everybody that I've talked to who is a thought leader, a consultant, a speaker and everything, the speaking, consulting, the coaching, that's the easiest part. Right. That's the easiest part. The hard thing is getting people to see you that way and build a business that's sustainable, like the quality of content and the quantity of content and the ability to build a brand. That is a separate and distinct skill that I've had to learn. And so the next iteration is going to be still doing the negotiation stuff, but also helping people to build their thought leadership, too. wow that's a that's a great story i mean and there's just so many points where people can get nuggets from that in terms of understanding like first of all taking a chance and the way you positioned it was brilliant right because it when i first met you and i said the american negotiation institute like it sounded like it was founded like in you know in the year of our lord anno damini 1742 right i was like i was like wow this guy he made it to ceo right Exactly.

18:20Ryan Dunlap: I gave myself promotions. Periodically, you get on LinkedIn. I went from director to managing director to CEO. And every time everybody's like, wow, congrats. Yeah, Kwame started a new position. That is amazing. That is amazing. Well, I appreciate it.

18:39Njsane Courtney: That's your gas lighter. That's hilarious.

18:43Ryan Dunlap: So, Ryan, with your journey, I mean, what I really want to know is, okay, so again, you started off in law enforcement. You decided to use your gifts within the ministry. And, you know, and there's, again, this evolution to this individual that we see in front of you. Tell us about that journey in terms of, like, when did you know, like, wait a minute, okay, this is more than just me having a job. This is a calling that can actually provide, you know, that can actually go off and do my own thing. Tell me, tell us about that mental process.

19:16Njsane Courtney: Yeah, you know, it's a strange thing, man. I've always felt like I was that guy. I always felt like I was given a picture of what the feature was supposed to look like years before I got it. So for me, it was never a question of, oh, I've got a thing. It was just figuring out how do I package the thing and when will that be? um so you know i was that kid like i i started my first business when i was 14 i was cutting grass and then i started a studio i we did i still i had a lot of friends we we bought cars when we were like 16 years old i'm talking like the day i i was able to purchase a car i bought a car because i had been saving for it right and we you know we were big into like i don't say street racing but like we were into like you know fast cars and and so but a lot of my friends kept getting in trouble with cars and so i started another business when i was like 17 or 18 years old called get ice.com which was for imports classics and domestics it was all about car shows and car performance and um i mean i did so many different things i i think i was a cereal entrepreneur while I was still eating cereal.

20:23Njsane Courtney: Um,

20:25Ryan Dunlap: so, uh, say that again, I was a serial

20:33Njsane Courtney: entrepreneur while I was still eating cereal, you know? None of those things work, you know, as well as, as conflict this does. Right. So, um, I never thought I was going to be doing this. I thought I was going to be doing music. In fact, the first business that I started that I thought was going to be the thing was a forensic audio enhancement program. When I left law enforcement, my goal was to work with federal government, state and local law enforcement agencies to enhance clandestinely recorded audio for court purposes. So think like wiretaps and interrogation videos and things like that nature that you can't really hear well.

21:09Njsane Courtney: That was my job as a detective. I was going to start a firm to do it. And I just quickly realized I didn't want to work in that space. specifically to conflict this man i started doing videos with no goal in mind i i didn't like i didn't consciously start creating the content because i wanted to market or build the brand what happened was i knew i had a counter-cultural understanding of conflict one that looked inward instead of outward and so i wanted to reality test the frameworks in a public way. I just wanted the feedback. So I had a smaller channel that I wasn't using on Instagram. I just overnight without telling anybody, I just changed the name, deleted all the videos, called it conflict dish and started posting conflict videos, which I know for the 500 or so people who were following me on account were like, who is this guy?

22:05Njsane Courtney: What does he think he's doing? And so I was just sharing, just sharing ideas, you know, and I was expecting people to push back that's what i was expecting and and i didn't get a lot of pushback i got a lot of people who were just like hey that's an interesting perspective tell me more so i would share more and that just happened for a little while and uh things didn't go very far i didn't get much traction on it i had a friend of mine who said hey man you need to share this content on TikTok. And I said, with the dancing kids? Nah. Nah, I'm good, man. He says, no, man, there's a lot of learning happening on TikTok.

22:45Njsane Courtney: You really need to like, you need to consider just post the same videos, but post it on TikTok. And I was like, this dude is crazy. But I did it. I started a little TikTok channel. I had zero followers and I started cross posting videos that were on Instagram. And one video I did, I was sitting in the front seat of my car. I had just left like a CVS, I think it was, and I had bought a pack of balloons because I had this idea. I didn't know what I was supposed to do with it. I didn't reality test this stuff. Like I wasn't like Kwame. Okay. I just came up with ideas. I went and got a pack of balloons from a CVS.

23:17Njsane Courtney: I sat in the front seat of my car. I put my cell phone resting against the gear shift, and I said, hey, we really need to learn how to start untying our balloons. We get full of hot air, and it's really hard to let that air out without popping under pressure. like I don't even remember what it was that I said that's what I said I posted it on TikTok went to bed one night woke up the next morning and the TikTok thing was broken it said you have 10 ,000 plus new followers and I was like yeah that it doesn't the TikTok is broken that's why I'm playing over here and I swiped it closed I put the phone down went and got a cup of coffee and I'm walking to the living room and I tell my wife I was like see this is why I don't mess with TikTok this thing is telling me I got 10 ,000 followers over here and she was like let me see so I open the phone again and the notification says you have 10 ,000 plus new followers and I'm thinking it was the same message but it wasn't it was a new 10 ,000 follower message because when I went into the profile it said we had 21 ,000 followers and the balloon video had blown up overnight and I was like what is this and so we swipe it and it says you've got 22 ,000 followers And you swipe it, it says you've got 23 ,000 followers.

24:29Njsane Courtney: And you swipe it, it said 24. That night, I think it was that day, or maybe by the next day, we had 50 ,000 followers on TikTok. And you know what I was thinking. Yo, forget Instagram. We on TikTok now.

24:42Ryan Dunlap: All in TikTok now.

24:46Njsane Courtney: So that was the first video that went viral for us. And it only went, I think, maybe 300 and some odd thousand views on TikTok. Now, here's what was interesting. And here's what changed the business. That video had been sitting in Instagram for weeks with no traction. After it went viral on TikTok, not reposting or sharing anything, it spiked on Instagram the day before Thanksgiving 2022, I think it was. And I know this because I was driving down the interstate to my dad's house and my phone was going crazy. I mean, my wife was like, what is happening? And I was like, and it was just new follower, new comment, new follower, new comment, new like, new.

25:26Njsane Courtney: And I was like, oh, no. By the time we parked at my dad's house, we had gone from, I don't know, maybe a thousand or so on Instagram to close to one hundred and fifty thousand. That was when I was like, OK, we might be on to something. So we started leveraging social media in that way. And then we stalled out for a little while. And I started realizing some of the videos that were shorter did much better than the longer videos. and I didn't know why. And at the time I learned eventually that Instagram only recommended videos that were 90 seconds or shorter. I was like, 90 second content is easier to create than three, four minute content, the long content that I was creating.

26:11Njsane Courtney: So I created this framework for messaging to take these really, really complex ideas that I had around conflict and to reduce them down to 90 seconds worth of speaking. For me, at the rate that I speak, 90 seconds of content is roughly 250 words. So I knew if I could write 250 words concisely on one topic, I could deliver it at 90 seconds or less and Instagram would recommend it. And that's how we were able to scale from 150 ,000 to now almost 550 ,000 on Instagram is with 90 second content, no trends, no trending audio, no dancing, no carousel stuff, just trying to do a daily video, 90 seconds or less is really what we did.

26:51Njsane Courtney: we stayed consistent in this space when other people were constantly trying to chase an algorithm. And it's worked for us. I don't know if it will work for other people, but it's been really, really helpful for what we do in this space. And what's been really cool for the business is I thought the following meant that I had a deep well of consumers I could market to. I was like, oh man, that's 550 ,000 people who are going to buy my insert, whatever. And that's not what this is. That 550 ,000 on Instagram and the 200 some odd thousand over here, I think collectively we're at just under a million on all the different platforms, right?

27:32Njsane Courtney: What that does is it gives me credibility for the corporate contracts. So this is why the 450s call. This is why we have clients on four continents because they see that that's a trust factor and because of the trust factor of so many consumers we we're trusted in the in the boardroom so that's that was the big pivot we had to make was to stop trying to sell to the instagram crowd and the tiktok crowd and to start connecting with the businesses they work for i mean again two really powerful stories

28:03Ryan Dunlap: about what it took to get to that next level and take y 'all's value proposition to the masses and make it successful because you guys have done such amazing work. And the thing I'd like to kind of focus on now is, so first of all, again, the only reason why Ryan and I are talking is because Kwame is gracious enough to share his network. And it's one of those things where people really miss out. I'm telling people all the time, your net worth is all about your net worth. And honestly, like I said, there's about four or five really good connections I've made just through various encounters that have helped me get to where I am.

28:46Ryan Dunlap: And then same thing with you guys. I think, again, the iron sharpens iron concept. And people really underestimate the power of reaching out. And here's the thing, not reaching out when you need something, reaching out to establish that network and trusted partners and collaborators so that when you do need something, it's more of a favor versus an ask and things like that. So either one, I'll just leave it open, right? I mean, in terms of establishing your network, if somebody came and told you I'm an introvert and I don't wanna be on Instagram and I'm not trying to do all that, but they say they wanna increase their network, what do you tell folks like that?

29:26I would say, go ahead Ryan.

29:29Njsane Courtney: Nope.

29:31Ryan Dunlap: look right i want to hear ryan's story right shaking his head like call me that call me is

29:35Njsane Courtney: the king of the network i mean everything that he's done in his last year is a byproduct of the reach out yeah right you landed on some pretty big some pretty big podcasts recently right

29:46Ryan Dunlap: how'd that happen for me just reaching out that's it big swings big swings man and so it's it's it's So interesting. And it's like Mel Robbins, that was a cold pitch. I said, I was like, okay, let me try out this mentality. 2025, it is an experimental year testing out a hypothesis. Big swings only. If you have what it takes to hit the ball out of the park, the only thing that holds you back is whether or not you're going to take a big swing. I said, well, I'm swinging it for the fences on everything. Most of them will miss, but nobody sees the misses. And then you just... The first thing that I ever got from Quince was this pair of really nice formal pants, but they were stretchy and made for travel.

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32:54Ryan Dunlap: You can try it totally free for three months. Just head to granola.ai. slash Kwame. That's granola.ai slash Kwame to get your time back. Three months free at granola.ai slash Kwame. Just build on the hits, right? So like, it's so interesting to see how this works. So Mel Robbins, cold pitch, down on that. And then she introduced me to my now book agent, Heather Jackson, and she was the agent that worked with Tim Ferriss for four hour work week. And so now you see how we just keep on moving through it. I asked for recommendations and Mel and her team got me connections to some other big shows. And then whenever I go on a show, I think about I ask, hey, who else do you think I could help with this message?

33:42Ryan Dunlap: And it's all based in generosity. And so it's then you just keep on moving through it and everything like that. And I try to do the same for my friends, too, because I know how this works, how it worked for me. And I want to be that catalyst for other people. And I think for the person who might be an introvert or whatever the self-limiting belief might be is a couple of things. Number one, sometimes you have to be uncomfortable at first to do certain things. That's number one. And number two, there are more avenues that could really resonate with you because you can be a really, really great podcaster and be introverted.

34:17Ryan Dunlap: The myth about introversion is that they don't like talking to people. That's not true. They like having deep conversations with one or a very small group of people, right? And so that's great for podcasting. And so that same person who's introverted and doesn't want to network and doesn't want to be on Instagram and things like that, then don't. Then just do a podcast and have somebody turn it into clips and then they put it on Instagram for you, right? Right. And I think you just have to figure out what really, really works for you while still trying to push the envelope a little bit. So podcasting was my thing.

34:51Ryan Dunlap: People didn't know what I look like for the longest time. I was like, oh, I'm making it pretty well in podcasting. That's it. No, like no social media was good for me. Not LinkedIn, not Instagram, no nothing. It was just the podcast. And then I heard because I did a couple of posts on LinkedIn and it never went well. I never saw a business case for social media on like Instagram, TikTok and everything. And hearing Ryan's story, you see how silly that was. And so I said, oh, listen, LinkedIn isn't working for me. These posts don't work. The algorithm doesn't like me. And I remember seeing a Gary Vee post and he said, the reason why your content isn't moving is because it sucks.

35:31Ryan Dunlap: Make it better. I was like, oh, my God, I'm the problem. So then I then I tried to actually make it better. And lo and behold, it started to work. So you have to experiment, figure out what your strengths are, double, triple, quadruple down on it. See where you could strategically expand with intentionality and do that. And then just keep on doing that and experimenting over time. And I think a big part of it is be resilient and humble and very curious. Everything's an experiment. If you take this personally, you will not make it. You won't make it. There's always a reason to feel offended, hurt, or disappointed in this game every day.

36:09Ryan Dunlap: It's a constant emotional roller coaster. You get a deal, you lose a deal. They want to feature you. They don't want to feature you. Some big name says they want to get on your podcast. You're like, wait, you reached out to me. And then you schedule it. And then they're like, ah, just kidding. They're like, what happened? I already told my family. You know, it's all of these constant ups and downs. So it's not just about doing the thing, but having the resilience to do it over the long term. Yeah.

36:38Njsane Courtney: Ryan, I mean, what's your thought on networking in terms of branching out? I think your success is limited by your circle. And tell me more about that. And I don't even think it's I think sometimes we hear that and we automatically say, oh, well, you've got a lot of people around you who are small thinkers or doubters or things like that. They'll hold you back. And that's a part of it. But I think the other side of it is if you are surrounded by people who are content or are smaller thinkers, right, then you will have constrained thinking as a consequence. Right. When I sat down with Kwame last year, just hearing some things that he was working on revealed some things about me.

37:16Njsane Courtney: Right. I don't see myself the way other people see me. And so I struggle with this. I mean, I'll be in airports and restaurants and other cities all over the world. And people are like, oh, my gosh, you the ish man. Be like, first of all, like, I don't even call myself that. Like, what are we doing right now? You know, like, get yourself together. I was in Portland. I was in Portland a couple of weeks ago. What was this? April. Yeah. So a couple of weeks ago, April, I'm in Portland and I'm just I'm minding my own business. and I walked down the sidewalk and this lady about jumped out of her skin she said oh my gosh wait a minute why are you here of all places in Portland you're here like right here you're here I watch you you're YouTube the ish man right and I was like

38:10Njsane Courtney: like I got a name my mama don't call me ish man so So I say that to say I don't see myself the way other people see me. Something Kwame said to me, he says, Ryan, they're the Mount Rushmore thought leaders when it comes to this negotiation and conflict space. And he said, I don't know if you realize it, but you're on it. That was terrifying for me. Right? Because I know everything I don't know. And I still feel like the same version of me before I started all of this. so I think for the person who is sitting back and saying you know I don't want to be known I don't want to be visible I'm introverted I don't want to be on social media and things like that welcome to the party I don't either right but I can also tell you that I have a lot of friends in my circle my network who have been on tv who are grammy award-winning and grammy-nominated artists and you know what we talk about when nobody else is around and no cameras on how much they don't like crowds and people how much stage fright they still have how much they don't like to stand out how regular they are.

39:11Njsane Courtney: I was just, when I was in Arizona, the gentleman who brought me out there, his, um, he is family with some very, very successful entertainers who are, their net worth is in the B, not the M the B. Right. And so we're having this conversation about, you know, their family and they were just like, Hey, they're just regular people. You know what I mean? And I think that's the thing is like, how can you build something without losing yourself in the process? And so my whole mantra has always been do it scared and to borrow confidence from your network, which means you need to be around people who are doing things that are bigger than you.

39:49Njsane Courtney: So I don't have to have all the confidence in the world. When I look on my Instagram feed and I see Kwame sitting down with Mel Robbins, you better believe I'm irritated. Not because I don't want him to win, but because I know that I'm also able to win big two. And I haven't pushed myself to do it. That's the thing, right? The difference between people who make it and the people who don't is not capacity. It's not competency. It's not even opportunity, man. Sometimes it is just ignorance. I had the ignorance to try. I had the ignorance to believe that I could do this. Some of the people at the top of different industries, it is surprising.

40:38Njsane Courtney: You'll be like, how did you get here? How are you the person? And it's because nobody else was willing to do it. everybody else was too aware of themselves. They were too aware of the potential risks, too aware of the consequences. And so they would rather hang on to a mediocre yes or mediocre reality than to grab a hold of some bodacious dream that is not nearly as far out of reach as they think, you know? And so for me, man, it started with surrounding myself with other people who were at least willing to push themselves out of their comfort zone. They didn't have to be successful, but they weren't going to woo me into comfort.

41:16Njsane Courtney: That's what I needed. You didn't have to be rich. I just needed you to have a rich personality, some rich character, some rich confidence, and some rich courage. I can build my own momentum off that because if I look to my left and the person I'm running with is quitting, and I look to my right and the person I'm running with is satisfied, I'm going to do the same. I'm going to measure myself based on the people around me. But when I look to my left and the person who was standing next to me is up here and the person that was over here is up there and they're not running. They're looking back and say, come on, bro.

41:49Njsane Courtney: Hey, let me connect you with my. Hey, let me let me get you on the. That's that's what you need. Right. And so Kwame is not dragging people with him, but he is showing people a pathway. And I'm not dragging people with me, but I'm showing people a pathway. way. And so a big part of the platform now, Kwame was alluding to this earlier, how do I get out of this space of just doing the thing I'm good at and helping other people do the thing they're good at? Right? How do I duplicate this model of building the thing that other people look to? Right? Because I've built my thing and I know there are other things out there that need to be built and it might have nothing to do with conflict or conflict strategy or negotiation a negotiation strategy.

42:31Njsane Courtney: It could be anything else. I talked to a gentleman the other day. He wants to build a food business. I've had a chance to work with McDonald's and Chick-fil-A. I've learned from some of the largest food franchises on the planet. They called me and asked me to teach them strategy. I learn things when I'm in those ecosystems that now I can take to this gentleman who has one restaurant. When I sat down with Piata and they said, We want to scale from here to here. We're going to take Italian food and spread it. I learned things from that group that I can now share with people who haven't started yet.

43:04Njsane Courtney: That's what network is. I can't build a restaurant. I don't want to build a restaurant. But I've learned some things from people who have done it. And if you're in my ecosystem, you can learn what I've learned. And you have to have the courage to pick up your cross, so to speak, and walk. That's the power of networking, I think.

43:22Ryan Dunlap: and and it's such an untapped superpower really that a lot of people just sleep on a lot of times because people feel like i wouldn't say people but i think there's there's this the mentality of some folks who haven't stepped out into that into those waters to think that oh i have to have this education or i have to have these resources first or i have to get these things done before I do that. And I think that, I think one of the things that I always tell people is that, I mean, there's no day better than today. Right. And just, just, just get started because momentum begets more momentum. Um, it's the kinetic law of motion, right.

44:01Ryan Dunlap: And it's just like anything at rest will stay at rest and you, and you have to get things going. And Ryan, it's funny what you were just saying, because when you were talking about like mentoring people and talking about people and like not necessarily dragging people with you but saying hey have you thought about it like this this makes me think about the conversation Kwame and I had earlier this year and so it's funny because Kwame is he's one of those guys he's gotten he's got at this point now where his email goes somewhere else right he don't even answer his own emails right he didn't even uh you'll get that you'll get that automatically applied we don't I don't check these emails Wait, Ryan.

44:41Ryan Dunlap: You didn't say that. I didn't even schedule this podcast. I'm going to be honest with you, but go ahead. Look at Simon. Simon.

44:52Ryan Dunlap: But here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. I've gotten to the point where I know Kwame, and I know that this man will get back at me. And he called me, and I'm telling you, one of the things that, Kwame, I'm giving you a flower publicly right now. Because I was at a turning point early this year. So I finally got to a point with my business. I think I hit I think I hit 12000 followers on LinkedIn and and the podcast. And I was thank you. Thank you, Ryan. I got to a certain point with my YouTube channel and some other stuff. And I had done some things on YouTube that were kind of jacked up.

45:27Ryan Dunlap: They kind of messed me up. And I had to start my new channel. And and then I was talking about my podcast and kind of the formats. and Kwame asked me a really very simple question when I was thinking about all these different things he was like and Ryan I want to kind of get your input on this because it was like he says why are you doing that who who who told you you had to do any of that and I said well I was I was watching this this video and it said that if I did this he says let me show you something and he said He took the time to go pull some stats on my own podcast. This is what this man did.

46:03Ryan Dunlap: He pulled stats on my own podcast and sent it to me. And he says, look, you are consistently posting. You consistently have hundreds of downloads per episode. You've only been at this for a couple of years. He says, you are already within the top 25 % of podcasts just doing what it is you do. So who's telling you this? and and i was about guys you have no idea i if i would have gone down that path i would have i would have divided my efforts 14 different ways i was going to have 14 three or four different youtube channels because of these neat different niches and so ryan i'm curious especially having known kwame have in in your in your evolution of what you do for ish ish man that should be a t-shirt so much you should sell it i'll buy one have you what was that key piece of advice or guidance that you got that really kind of helped keep you grounded or is it just kind of a self-reflection thing so i've got a good friend

47:08Njsane Courtney: of mine i always reflect on this conversation montel jordan from the you know this is how we do it back in the day um we we've we've had a number of conversations over the years and And he's got a testimony about his career transition and trajectory of how, you know, you go from like lights and stages to like almost nobody showing up to the show. Right. And there's been this reinvention and redevelopment of him. And I've always remembered his evolution. Right. Because I love Mont's journey. I love his story. And one of the things for me was recognizing that I never wanted to count the faces in the crowd.

47:49Njsane Courtney: as some metric of success. And I I'm saying that now because you just said something to me that just like took my breath away. When you said, I mean, I got up to like 12 ,000 on LinkedIn, bro. Do you know I have a stadium back here in our backyard that can only fit 12 ,000 people. And if you were to sell that place out, you're a headliner, but we get 12 ,000 followers on social media and we think we haven't done anything. We think we have, because we see Ryan with his nearly a million and we feel like that's the thing. 12 ,000 people are locked in and connected to you. You can't get 12 ,000 people in a room for a keynote unless you are like the man or the woman.

48:31Njsane Courtney: So I think what happens, man, is like we have to start measuring success very differently than numbers because the quantitative metrics don't satisfy the brain. we'll look at 12 000 and be like well how do i get to 20 what we get to 20 like yeah but how do i get to 50 you know so-and-so thought leader they've got this much and they've got that much and man i'm gonna tell you um i had a lot of followers when i went to kwame's place last year and i can tell you I hadn't made nearly as much as he had at that time because we talked about it right so then that was one metric that didn't matter now you better believe we changed some stuff when we got back and we we doing great right now right but the numbers only tell a portion of the story and I love what Kwame did because he he gave you the story behind the statistics right he gave you perspective for what those numbers mean for me and my business I'm going to tell you my analytics are turned off I don't look at them I don't get daily downloads I don't know how many followers I have from platform to platform literally the only reason I know how many followers I have right now is because we're putting together a media kit and I needed to know what the numbers were but prior to this week I I had no idea and people say all the time oh man you over 500 something oh is it really okay that's cool i don't pay attention to it um it is it's it's shut off i don't get those numbers because for me it creates a false level of uh first security and then anxiety because i know me i'll be the same thing like oh i gotta get to this number now i gotta get to this number now the comparison story so i don't even know if i answered the question you asked man but i just wanted to stop and pause for a second so that you can fully take in what i don't have 12 000 followers on linkedin that's crazy well i mean is it though i don't i don't maximize that because you have the platform there too there that's so interesting

50:42Ryan Dunlap: though because it shows how different each platform is and how each platform is like

50:46Njsane Courtney: its own container yep you know so interesting you gotta be at where your feet are at man you have to win where you're at. And this is why for the person who says, I'm an introvert. I don't want to do video. Don't do video. Go right. Go right on Substack. Right on LinkedIn. Do a podcast, but just your voice. You don't have to do it with your face. If you want to do videos, do videos or create a LinkedIn or TikTok that only does memes and written content and schematics and drawing. There are so many different ways to put your content out there. It doesn't have to look the way I'm doing it. Right.

51:19Njsane Courtney: And also know that views do not equate to, to dollars in pockets, right. Followers do not equate to, to, to dollars in pockets at some level, you have to be able to deliver to that audience. And, and I think that's the gift that Kwame and I have is that the people who call, we're able to give them such value that they call back. You know, when I first started doing this, I was like, wow, I would love for somebody to pay me two grand to come and do a thing people call now and they're like we only can afford a hundred thousand dollars and i'm just like well you know if that's all you've got you know what i mean but i mean we'll make it work at some level it's just like the numbers don't mean anything anymore you know um so you just have to you really substantively you have to have something that you can stand behind something that you champion.

52:12Njsane Courtney: But the analytics, the quant metrics, man, I don't, I think there's only so much value in that.

52:20Ryan Dunlap: Everything that we do, we create and everything, life will give you these story fragments. It's our job to tell a good story about it. Right. So it's like, okay, 12 ,000 followers. Okay. I need to do more. That could be one story. But if I remember correct, I think it's only 10 % of people on LinkedIn have more than a thousand followers. That's the story. Yeah. Right. And so it's all about the way that you package it. Right. And so you niche down as much as you possibly can. Oh, let me tell you a story about my stories. So with the negotiate anything, um, when I started the podcast, do you, did I, I don't know if I told you how many active negotiation podcasts were there when I started any guesses?

53:02Ryan Dunlap: No, take a while. What a hundred. Okay.

53:06Njsane Courtney: Ryan, you want to have no context whatsoever?

53:10Ryan Dunlap: 101.

53:11Njsane Courtney: I'm going to hit it with the prices right.

53:12Ryan Dunlap: Okay. One dollar. One dollar. Active. So there were some that died. There were some that produced and stopped. But active at the time in 2016, when I started the Negotiate Anything podcast, zero. None. No active. Really? No active negotiation podcasts. Except no old Stani. Later on, of course, more have started. But in 2016, when I started Negotiate Anything, there was only one, which made me the number one negotiation podcast in the world. In the world? Oh, my God. In the world on Earth, right? And so that was, listen, I am 27. I've got no other accolades. Cool. If there's a field of one, I'm number one.

53:55Ryan Dunlap: I'm also last place. I'm also last place, but I'm not. That is Delorean talking right there. So I was like, number one, who cares that it's only like me and my parents listening to the podcast? I'm number one. Oh, my God. So then you speak it and then you kind of grow into it. But it was factually true at that time, right? And so what I think is you niche down as much as possible so the competition is you. And so then you're like, I'm the best in this narrow vertical. And so the thing that's really interesting is that everybody has something in their story that is truly remarkable and unique and something, some skill, some experience, and it just comes down to how you package it.

54:42Ryan Dunlap: And so if you think of yourself as less than, then you're going to say, oh, I did some things, but I'm not this, so I shouldn't even ask. But if you, with the right mindset, you look at the right, the story, the background and everything, it's like, okay, is there, I've been in law enforcement, ministry, and I've got these connections, and then I'm an incredible storyteller. There's nobody else like Ryan. There's nobody else. And there's nobody else like Jassani. There's nobody else like the person who's listening. And once you start to really embrace the power of that authenticity and uniqueness, now you can create stories that are both rooted in what is true, but also can speak to the people who can either help you or want to work with you.

55:23Ryan Dunlap: But a lot of times we are doing the people that we could be serving a disservice by playing small. yeah so good wow i mean gentlemen you have given i mean listen i mean some somebody's soul got fed to do somebody's soul definitely got fed they are high on nutrients and simple carbohydrates they are uh or is it complex which one's a good one simpler complex i like them all bro it's all good they're all delicious they're all yeah carbs are delicious um but so before we close out So I want to give you guys a chance to give some closing thoughts. So somebody somewhere is listening to this podcast.

56:00Ryan Dunlap: They see three brothers on here. We got social media stuff going on. We're all public speakers. And they're just like they got something in them. There's a spirit. There's something calling to them saying they should be doing more. um what do you tell that person who just needs that nudge to get out and just go out and pursue

56:23Njsane Courtney: their passion i'll start with you ryan man do it scared um we're we're building the airplane while we're flying it right and i think especially for those of us who are uh people of color we are some of the most overqualified, underutilized people in the space. And I think a part of that is conditioning. We've been conditioned to believe we've got to get one more credential, one more certification, one more degree, one more accolade, or one more word of affirmation from another person. And at some point, you've got to take the reins and realize you've got everything you need to at least start. And the greatest information you're going to get is on the other side of starting.

57:07Njsane Courtney: And all of the clarity that you're looking for, all the confirmation you're looking for, all of that, should I do this? It's on the other side of activation because you can't move a parked car. So for anybody out there who's looking to get some traction on something, start, do it for a little while, and then look back and see if you've gotten closer to what your intended goal was. Because sitting around and planning all day is not going to change your life or the people's lives you're supposed to be helping. And so you got to start, you got to do it scared. Build the airplane while you're flying it.

57:38Njsane Courtney: That's what I would say.

57:41Ryan Dunlap: All right. Beautiful. I think just staying on brand, take big swings and tell better stories, you know, and tell better stories about yourself that are rooted in truth and authenticity, but actually can speak to how great you really are. And like Brian said, borrowed confidence. So you can borrow the confidence of people around you. So ask your friends, what is it that I do very well? What is it that you think sets me apart? And then you see how other people see you, then you reflect that back out, right? And then you just keep on building up on that thing. And I think the two other things too, recognize compound interest and strategic luck.

58:20Ryan Dunlap: So with compound interest, we understand this is an Einstein, what was it Einstein? Einstein quote. He said, the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest, which obviously is tongue in cheek, but it just shows the power of just constantly putting in a little bit and then you will get a little bit more in everything that you do. So think about with the posts that you make. For everybody that listens to a podcast, sees a post, for somebody looking at it, it is their first time seeing you. So every time you put something out there, it is going to build momentum slowly. So the compound interest works.

58:56Ryan Dunlap: But like Ryan said, you have to do it scared. You have to start because you're not going to build any compound interest if you are not taking any kind of action. And so that leads us to strategic luck. In your audience, let's say you're trying to sell something, there is always going to be a percentage of people that will purchase or work with you or follow you. And so there's always going to be a percentage. So the more shots on goal you have, the higher the quantity of successes you will have. So the more you take shots, the more compound interest you will have, the more people who are aware of you and the more the luckier you will get so so the big swings get bigger just because you have availed yourself to compound interest and strategic luck and at a certain point it is just math and you will not move forward if you don't try so as long as you're moving in the right direction you're on the right path yeah love it so i guess my two cents would be leave them turkeys alone.

59:53Ryan Dunlap: And here's what I mean by that, right? So turkeys gaggle, but eagles soar alone. And sometimes you got to separate yourself from some of those turkeys to reach your full potential. And let me clarify that just a little bit, because I don't want people to think that, oh, I got to leave my friends alone and I got to do all these things and I got to become a different person to be successful. That's not what I'm saying. But as Ryan and Kwame Boast just said, talked about a little ago, a little while ago about you are the sum of your circle. Right. And your circle of friends really helps. It's a big indicator where you may end up being.

1:00:32Ryan Dunlap: I think Harvard Business Review came out with an article that says you tend to be the sum of your five closest colleagues. And because those those are influences. If you hang around a bunch of people who eat poorly and don't take care of themselves and party all night, chances are you have some or all of those habits. And you want to surround yourself with people who are ambitious. They don't have to have the same goals and aspirations, but they are trying to achieve something greater because that will motivate you to, number one, see what's possible, which is why I hang around these gentlemen.

1:01:04Ryan Dunlap: um they let they they give me a good picture of what good looks like but at the same time they also inspire and just know that sometimes relationships have seasons um there are times where you do have to say you know what you're i i just i have to move on because i can no longer associate or do those kinds of activities maybe you got a bunch of single friends and you're married with kids right married folks can't do what single folks do i don't care what TikTok tells you. But at the same time, it's one of those things where you have to navigate where you're flying towards. So I say sometimes you just got to really, really, because that was one thing with me.

1:01:43Ryan Dunlap: I hung around. I have a lot of really great friends and they're good people. But when it comes to my professional network, I really, if I wanted to achieve greater things or just not live status quo, I had to insert people in my circle that, A, will kind of motivate me. Because then I got people like Kwame saying, where you at? I ain't seen a podcast episode in three or four weeks. What's going on? Crap. Okay, he's following up. It's like having a personal trainer. So I think it's important to have people in your circle that do that. And if you don't have those, look, Kwame reached out to Mel Robbins, right?

1:02:22Ryan Dunlap: And I mean, And if you have not checked out that episode, oh, my God, it's a really great episode. He can have it. You should go find it. But find those people. Find those folks. And honestly, Kwame is really good. I'm really good. Ronnie, reach out. Ping us on social media. It might take a minute, but we'll get back. It takes a while for Kwame. But no, but he will. But there are people out there that will help you. You're not in this alone because all of us had to start. Everybody had to take that first step. I don't care whether you're talking about myself, Ryan, Kwame, Oprah, Mel Robbins, Simon Sinek.

1:03:04Ryan Dunlap: Everybody started with that first step and that first action. And that's usually the hardest one. So that would be my two cents. Guys, I know you're busy. And again, I want to be respectful of your time. So first of all, I want to say thank you for your time and not only your time, but sharing your wisdom and your history. because, again, somebody got fed today, and I think we might have helped generate the next generation of influencers or content creators or whatever, whatever their goals is. So I want to thank you. So real quick, if they wanted to catch up with you guys or if they want to follow you or if you guys are speaking somewhere, Ryan, where can folks find you over the next few months?

1:03:40Ryan Dunlap: Where are you going to be?

1:03:41Njsane Courtney: Yeah, so you can find me at the American Negotiation Institute.

1:03:51Njsane Courtney: um no man um man we're obviously you can find us anywhere online uh conflict ish social media our website and things like that we are going to be we're working to expand some things and so i would say keep your eyes open for for um what's coming we want to be able to serve people in a new way and we're having to make some internal pivots and i'm really excited about what that's going to look like. But in the meantime, if people just want to stretch their conflict competency a little bit and not have to pay a dime for it, we post every single day on social media, conflict-ish, and help you get your ish together.

1:04:26Njsane Courtney: Come find us, man.

1:04:28Ryan Dunlap: Absolutely. Kwame, where are you going to be, brother? But yeah, the podcast and follow me on all the socials. I'm at Kwame Negotiates and on all of those things. And then LinkedIn, of course, we have courses. I don't know if I told you all this, but I have a Kwame AI, a Kwame coach. So like all of my thought leadership into it, cloned my voice, everything. And it's actually really good. I use it when I'm creating content and I want to just stay in a flow state. I'm like, what do I think about this? Oh, right. Yes, there it is.

1:05:02Njsane Courtney: What do I think about this? What would I say about this?

1:05:09Ryan Dunlap: And every time I do it, I'm like, that is what i'd say oh my god it's really funny i remember um whitney used it one time and she would she was asking it questions that uh where i have like a unique perspective on it and um to see whether or not it would get it right and it was she was very impressed it's very good so i like it um because coaching isn't scalable i love coaching but i just can't do it as much as i want so we created that ai and we're creating some courses too i mean we we had those courses with not had. We still have those courses with LinkedIn learning. Over 51 courses is going to be later this summer.

1:05:48Ryan Dunlap: And 2.3 million people have gone through that. We also have the LinkedIn certificate, the negotiation certificate. We negotiated to deal with LinkedIn to create the only negotiation certificate on the platform. So we have 55 ,000 folks globally who have been certified through that. So you could check that out. And then I was like, damn, I'm making all this money for LinkedIn. Let me make my own courses too.

1:06:08Njsane Courtney: hey listen we launched a course last year and it's been phenomenal it's been really really dope you got to keep that keep that in-house for sure yeah man so we're gonna so we'll talk

1:06:20Ryan Dunlap: offline about course marketing so i can learn a little bit you see how this works just how it this is how it works so yeah man those those are the places you can find me kwamechristian.com as well we're we're pretty easy to find that yeah excellent excellent and so and if folks want to running to me um i will actually be if you're if you're across the pond i'll at a jolly old london like my london i know that's uh hello hello that's gonna kick you out before you blow up bro i don't know i just lost every uk follower i i've ever read um done it yeah so i will actually be in london uh in two weeks at the spinnaker people maritime conference i'll be speaking about generating the future generation of talent, how to hone that.

1:07:06Ryan Dunlap: And then I will also be at the SHRM National Conference speaking there in good old Orlando, Florida in the week of June 12th. And then if always, you guys can find me on LinkedIn under My Friend in HR, My Friend in HR podcast, which is now on YouTube as well as Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcast fix from. And then subscribe to our newsletter. It has some really cool stuff. We have a new article series. I tap into my inner 80s nerd where I take 80s concepts and apply leadership. My most recent article dived into The Breakfast Club where they had the five different types of students. And it talks about not managing people to stereotypes, not putting people into boxes.

1:07:51Ryan Dunlap: And actually, Kwame, you would appreciate the one I did before, which was about coming to America. So the title of that one was, he was royalty, but you probably would have phone screened him anyway. And it talks about how they had this great talent, but McDowell had a mop in the floors. And how many Prince Akeem's does every organization have working for them? So check that stuff out. It's actually really cool stuff, if I do say so myself. New article comes out on Monday, Back to the Future. I'll let you guys read it, figure out what that concept is going to be about. But yeah, you can find me there.

1:08:26Ryan Dunlap: We ain't hard to find. So, but anyway, but folks, as always, you know, be well, not just to others, but also to yourself. And as we say on my friend in HR, remember that your life is not meant to support your job. Your job is meant to support your life. Until next time, my friends. Boom. I love it. That was so good. That was great. Man, look, that was great. That was awesome. That was awesome.