How to Control Your Hormones Before They Control You — with David JP Phillips

0:00Big Swings Only Host: David, thanks for joining us today.

0:01David JP Phillips: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Coming in to you from Sweden of all places.

0:05Big Swings Only Host: Yes, it is great to have you, my friend. And I appreciate you coming in late night your time. So how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

0:14David JP Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. As you said, you know, it's dark outside here. It's 9.30 in the evening. I just came off a workshop on public speaking, which is what I've been doing for the last 24 years. never stopped asking the question why so it wasn't it's not 24 years of repetition it's 24 years of curiosity yeah i've got three big tedx talks i think the second most viewed in the world on public speaking and body language presentation skills and then i just launched a book like one of the disciplines in public speaking and presentations is self-leadership And the book is about that. And it's out in 35 languages.

0:54David JP Phillips: This came out in Japanese. Wow.

0:58Big Swings Only Host: Congratulations. Thanks. Listeners, his work speaks for itself, but we are excited to have him here speaking for himself in front of us in the flesh.

1:19Big Swings Only Host: That's granola.ai.com to get your time back. Three months free at granola.ai.com. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was me. That's the best way to support the show. So let's start off by talking about the first book, because there are some incredible correlations between what you're talking about and then what it takes to be not just an effective negotiator or communicator, but just a happy, healthy, functioning human being.

1:58Big Swings Only Host: So tell us a bit about the book.

2:00David JP Phillips: So in the book, I go through six neurosubstances, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphin, testosterone, and cortisol. And I give the reader 10 tools per substance on how they can create these at will, in themselves, whenever they want to. And that gives you superpowers because it allows you to adjust your state of mind, mood, and by so also your decisions and your interactions with other people. Yeah, that's in a nutshell.

2:30Big Swings Only Host: You say it like it is not a big deal because it definitely is. And first of all, especially when you think about these neurochemicals, this internal cocktail that we're creating with intentionality, it shows how creative and how playful your name, the name of the book is, which is High on Life. And when you think about this, I really want to hammer this home to the person listening, because you can hear this and then you can make it kind of like an intellectual type of exercise. oh, this sounds nice in theory. But if somebody were to read the book and pay attention to what it is that they're going to learn here today with you, how does their life change if they put some of these practices into motion in their lives?

3:11David JP Phillips: Oh, I think the results are immediate, man. It's like in the book, I refer to a study on negotiation when it comes to testosterone, which is one of the six substances I talk about, where it turned out that people who elevate their testosterone prior to a negotiation will more likely walk away with a higher bid. So if you are a negotiator and you do negotiations, just by learning how to elevate your testosterone levels will net you a pretty sum, depending on how big deals you make. So yeah, that would be just an immediate effect on that particular thing.

3:46Big Swings Only Host: That's incredible. Let's start there. And first of all, let's start with a disclaimer too, because I know at least half of our audience said, Well, maybe I don't want to elevate my testosterone, David, because I'm a woman. So let's address the testosterone, like the gender dynamics of that first. And then let's talk about exactly how we can do it.

4:05David JP Phillips: Yeah, absolutely. Look at that. So the interesting thing between men and women is that a man usually has about 20 times higher concentration of testosterone. So that baseline is 20 times higher. But the interesting thing is, if you elevate your testosterone levels by various psychological tricks and techniques, and you do 10 % increase as a woman or 10 % increase as a man, the psychological effects are similar. So even if we have a 20 times higher baseline, it doesn't mean that we get like 20 times output for a 10 % increase. So men and women, it doesn't matter. And usually, actually, interestingly enough, when I do these exercises with women, they are usually the ones that benefit most from this.

4:45Big Swings Only Host: This is fascinating. No, that's very helpful. Now, so let's talk about it. Let's make it real. So if somebody, the person listening is going into a negotiation, let's walk through how to do this. How soon do they need to start the process and what does the process look like?

5:01David JP Phillips: There's various ways to approach it. You can have a look at like a long-term buildup of testosterone. on. So imagine this, that you have an important negotiation on Friday and you know that. So you start Monday by what I call stacking victories, which means that you just look at TV shows that build your testosterone. You look at replays of games, which you know the team that you root for is victorious. You look at those things. You play music, which builds that sense of confidence. You do activities which build your testosterone, which is any risk-taking activity, really. You just spend that week building that sense until you get to Friday.

5:47David JP Phillips: Now you've stacked so many victories or sensations of testosterone along the week that when you walk in there, you'll naturally have a higher baseline. And obviously working out heavily as well is also prone to increase testosterone levels. So that's the long game. That's a week. You have that focus. The worst thing you can do is go Thursday. You look at something that makes you sad or a loss. Or you look at your TV show and you look at Sons of Anarchy, season four. No spoilers, but that's not a good season for that guy. It just goes worse to worse to worse to worse. And you go like, you're testosterone.

6:28David JP Phillips: Because the reason testosterone is increased is because you root for the protagonist. And if the protagonist is having a bad time, so does your testosterone. So we can relate to the character and by so are testosterone affected in that. So yeah, you have to pick the stuff that you watch, look at. So that's the long one. But imagine then if we need a short boost of testosterone. What you can do then is there are six scientifically proven ways to increase confidence slash testosterone. They're not all proven to increase testosterone because they didn't study that. but closely related. And I call this, I call this again, testosterone stacking.

7:08David JP Phillips: So the way you do is you stack these six scientifically proven methods on each other. And the way you do that is I'll recite them and whoever's listening can just write them down and then try them out after the podcast. So you start off by A, you walk like you own the world. So you kind of like long strong strides, slow strides, chest out, chin up, arms out. You go boom, boom. You know, like you just walk like you're on the world. We know that posture and movement has a direct effect on confidence. So you start by doing that. And then secondly, you add a breathing pattern, which is the kind of breathing pattern you would use if you go hunting.

7:57David JP Phillips: So it would be something like not I don't want people to go into anger because but that's quite easy so if you're easy to anger don't do this exercise but otherwise you go into a breathing pattern that sounds something like this where you go

8:18David JP Phillips: like a warrior like sensation and you start to build up while walking when you've got that going for you you put on some music which is like the stuff the music you you should drive your car too fast you know the feeling don't you like when you're suddenly you're speeding you're like what on earth happened that kind of music that makes you cocky the stuff you listen to before you do like that big rep that big try when do bench pressing or whatever it is that kind of music you know it boosts you so you just use this in combination now so this is the third thing that you stack. Upon this, number four is you start uttering some kind of mantra, which is like, mine is personally, is come get me.

9:01David JP Phillips: Come get me. Come get me. And then maybe now, and then I tend to toss in a swear word there as well for my own victorious purposes. So that's your fourth one. Now, the fifth one is primal scream, which is a bit of a weird one. So preferably it should be silent around you or like you call it be by yourself or something like that anyhow the primal scream is simply you going you just do this primal scream loud and then the sixth one in combination with this is that you do a an anchoring gesture so this is used in sports by elite athletes all over the world you do an anchoring gesture mine is this where i house my chest so i do the walking I do the breathing I go, go, come get me, come get me come get me, come here and then I go and then I scream out I get instantaneous goosebumps over my entire body and when I do this in workshops I ask them to listen to my voice look at my eyes before I do this exercise and after I've done it and you will see testosterone and they go like, yeah, that's so evident and when women do it the when i ask them what it feels like they're like i feel freaking invincible man yeah and that's a power move that takes you about two minutes when whitney sees me next she is gonna be in for a surprise

10:30David JP Phillips: well played man well played don't tell me i did i did i don't tell me i told you you

10:36Big Swings Only Host: You would appreciate the credit. No, this is great, man. You know what's really cool about this? And now I can get a bit vulnerable too, because in the past year, I've been really focusing on mindset and trying to play around with different things to do in order to adjust my mindset. And now I was like, I was too afraid to share. I'm like, people are going to think I'm weird, but I accidentally stumbled upon some of these things because I would think about some of the like, you see it so well in athletes when they are like in the zone, when they're at their peak. And I can just identify some of this behavior in athletes, like walk like you own the world.

11:13Big Swings Only Host: That's the Conor McGregor swag, right? Oh, yeah. True. Yeah. The loose arms and breathing pattern while walking. You see a lot of UFC fighters do it when you see people like Novak Djokovic getting locked in. He has that deep breath. People would make fun of him. But now I'm recognizing this is psychologically sound. The music. So what I've recognized is that the music with the most bass is what I want to listen to before a keynote speech is what I listen to when I'm in the gym lifting heavy. And now with this AI music, what I was doing, David, is I would take my like excerpts from my journal and think about the things that were making me afraid or insecure.

11:47Big Swings Only Host: And then I would put like the counters to that in music and play it loud. So it's customized music for myself talking about anytime I think, oh, no, I'm not good enough. The music just counters every single insecurity with that music playing. And something I started to do with my sons is like when they started to get down, focus on their posture. But I'm saying, okay, when I think about it, humans are primates. What do primates do when they're showing that alpha domination? They'll pound their chest. And so I recognize that when I was alone, I started to enjoy doing it. It felt really good. And then with my kids, I would have them do it.

12:22Big Swings Only Host: They would start to feel really good. This is incredible. I don't have a mantra. Need that. The primal scream. I need that. The anchoring gesture. That's missing. But this is powerful because you can do this at almost any time.

12:36David JP Phillips: oh yeah absolutely yes the primal scream is probably the only one that holds you back from doing it anywhere uh but the cool thing if you and i'll tell you this if you haven't tried these six stacked on each other and you do it god it's a mind-blowing sensation like when you go into that negotiation or do that when i do keynote speaking you just walk differently you're you're in a

12:56Big Swings Only Host: different world man yes you're it's funny that you talk about with keynote speaking because that's that's when I do it the most because I have the hotel room to myself. And I, you know, sometimes I think about, oh, one of these days, I'm going to take my family to the, to these speeches. And I'm like,

13:16Big Swings Only Host: I don't know if that's the right vibe. They'll be like, who is this man? He is not the guy that we left in Ohio. This is so cool. But again, David, to your point, We're seeing that if we play around with the testosterone levels that we have, then it leads to more aggressive behavior. But then if we can temper that with probably the other parts of the emotional cocktail, like oxytocin, for example, we can make it a bit more measured. So if we have the negotiation skills, but now we have a bit more of an aggressive, assertive mindset, we're going to drive more toward our goals. Am I getting that right?

13:53Big Swings Only Host: Yes, yes.

13:54David JP Phillips: It's partly, it hasn't been proven to only be connected to testosterone. It can be connected to testosterone. It's rather kind of an amplifier of your social skills. So if you are, it's quite strange actually, but if you know that being funny is your optimal social skills, testosterone will amplify that ability. So if your game is being funny on stage and you increase your testosterone levels, you'll be funnier. If being social is your social game, testosterone will amplify that. And I think people can relate to that where they, when they feel like when they feel testosterone elevated, they suddenly become very good at being social, not just being social, but being good at that particular thing in being social.

14:44Big Swings Only Host: So would it be fair to say that it's almost like testosterone makes you a better version of yourself, like amplifies yourself?

14:52David JP Phillips: Yeah, yeah. From this perspective, absolutely. And the issue is, though, however, it's also connected to risk taking. So you become bolder, which means that that can obviously lead to hybris. And it's been shown that men are generally not as good as women when it comes to picking stocks and doing day trading, because we take bigger risks than they do. We're better at bonds, and they're better at stocks in this particular study.

15:22Big Swings Only Host: Yeah, because I remember, and maybe we're thinking about the same book, I was reading The Confidence Code by Caddy Kay and Claire Shipman, and they referred to that study. They were talking about during the recession, men who ran the firms lost more because of the risk taking. So it's important to balance that with some strategic thinking as you're getting hyped up before your negotiation. And when we think about some of these other neurochemicals that would be applicable to negotiation, what are some of the other ones that come to mind?

15:50David JP Phillips: I definitely recommend oxytocin. Oxytocin is a neurosubstance that can be connected to empathy, presence, and that you're open to connecting with your group. So it kind of makes you open as a human being to your group. so what why why is that important in this sense well let's put it like this if you look at if you got kids you know you got kids if you look at them when they were small they will be like if look at them when they were like i don't know how old are they now got three and nine i am i so you look at the nine-year-old you look at what he or she or both boys boys okay so look at him when he was like three like look at him and he's so it's like cute he's like this beautiful little bundle and you look at that and you can feel your oxytocin levels increase and because there's just this there's love there's connection in this this is very important to do in a combination with testosterone because if you don't do this you will walk in and people may perceive you as cocky like too cocky.

17:02David JP Phillips: So what you want to do is you want to combine testosterone with oxytocin. So you do your testosterone exercise. Bum, bum, bum, bum. You build that up. You can feel that sensation in you. And I always do this before my keynotes. I do the testosterone exercise and I spend the last two minutes looking at photos of my daughter when she was like three, four, five, six and my son actually as well. And I get all teared up. I do this for two minutes and I hear my name, David J.P. Phillips coming up on stage. I hand my phone to technician and then I walk up on stage And I'm so freaking present, man. I am calm.

17:33David JP Phillips: I'm present. I'm caring. And I look at my audience and my sensation for oxytocin is transmitted to them. So now I am high on testosterone, high on oxytocin. That combination is the sexiest combination around, man.

17:51Big Swings Only Host: Man, this is powerful because you're right. You're right. The testosterone can make you appear cocky. And honestly, I think if you are like a larger, more physically imposing person, it would be easier to get tagged with that as well. So that's something to be mindful of. But I love the idea of blending that with oxytocin. That is an incredible psychological stack there. And one of the things that you said, I want to dig into this too, because it's a really interesting note. So you feel more connected to people within your group. So when we think about it through the lens of psychology and we have in-group versus out-group bias, now does it not at all extend to the out-group or can you break down that element of it?

18:35David JP Phillips: Actually, the reverse, apparently. What that means is that oxytocin seems to be the purpose from an evolutionary point of view is that oxytocin is supposed to bond you to your group and to keep your group safe. So oxytocin also increases your hate towards other groups. so there are theories that oxytocin is partly responsible for racism so yeah by segregating so in in a company you can as a manager you can listen to how people speak because if they speak like this they go guys in sales freaking idiots freaking idiots we don't want to have anything to do with and how can they be paid so much like iq 85 so that is that is and that is that's like production saying this so what they're actually doing is that they from an evolutionary point of view is they're bonding that's why they're doing it they don't feel strong enough so they want to bond but what they could have done instead is which is the other option then is to build oxytocin through peaceful ways in their production group which is care for each other, listen to each other, help each other, see each other, be vulnerable, be personal, be generous.

19:54David JP Phillips: All of those things can also add to like what I then call the Harry Potter version of oxytocin, which is the good part. The other one was Voldemort. That's like the dark oxytocin kind of stuff. So yeah, it's quite important for our group and group.

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22:48Big Swings Only Host: That's the best way to support the show. That's really fascinating. Because when I'm thinking about this, we want to build this cocktail with a little bit of precision, too. So maybe the testosterone is good for the, like a more, I mean, it's just good in general. But then it's almost like the oxytocin could be the thing that gives the most, but also could take a lot as well. If it's a really hostile negotiation, perhaps oxytocin might not be that great at the beginning when you're working through those hostilities when you still see them as the other.

23:22David JP Phillips: Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. That's a very good point.

23:25Big Swings Only Host: Now, what about dopamine? Let's wrap with dopamine, too, because dopamine might be the behind testosterone might be the one that is most recognizable to most people. So when we think about the effect, well, actually, no, let's start with what dopamine is, because I recognize that a lot of times people don't fully understand what it is, and that misunderstanding might color the rest of the conversation. So let's break that down.

23:49David JP Phillips: Oh, absolutely. And I just also want to add this, that in the book, High on Life, I go through different kinds of cocktails for different kinds of situations. So like, when should you combine testosterone and oxytocin? When should you combine endorphins and dopamine? When should you combine and so on and so forth? So I call these the angels and the devil's cocktails of our lives. To answer your question on dopamine, it has multiple functions and effects on us. But looking from this perspective of negotiation and psychology now specifically, it has two effects. And the one is, it is actually part of reward.

24:30David JP Phillips: So when we eat chocolate, we'll have a sudden increase of dopamine. If we eat food even, we'll have a sudden increase of dopamine. Spending time, actually, this one is interesting. This one just came out quite recently. Spending time with other humans increases our dopamine levels. So yeah, just rewards like that gives us dopamine. But that is not where dopamine is strongest. Dopamine is strongest on the anticipation of reward. So the process of looking forward to eating that bar of chocolate, walking down to the local superstore, every step you take, every thought you think about that chocolate, how you're going to just bite into it, how it's going to feel, if you're going to bring it back home, have it when you watch your telly.

25:22David JP Phillips: That entire process of the anticipation of reward can be seen as way more powerful than the reward itself. So that would probably be key in this case where in a negotiation, your perseverance and your stubbornness to get your negotiation to land will most likely be correlated to the amount of dopamine that you feel for the end result. The more you feel that the end result is important to you. Like for instance, if you're negotiating for the life of your family, your dopamine will be so high, nothing will stop you. But if you're negotiating for a client you barely care about or they've been mistreating you, whatever, your dopamine level will be so low that the amount of creativity and the amount of decisiveness, everything will be impacted by your level of perceived reward.

26:22Big Swings Only Host: This is fascinating. And so, I mean, really, it sounds cheesy, but you truly need to care. You actually need to care about the person and the outcome. And the level of drive that we have is going to be correlated to the amount that we care about the person and the outcome.

26:42David JP Phillips: Yes, yeah. You truly want to get the best out of your mind, your brain. Because if you're high on dopamine, you will most likely be more creative. You'll see things from various perspectives. You'll be more open-minded. You'll see opportunities instead of problems. Sometimes you'll be a different version of yourself. So let's bring this down to keynotes because that's what I do. I coach people and I do keynotes. So the keynote for this book is called The Angels and the Devil's Cocktail. And I've done that maybe 500 times now. So the 500th time I do that keynote, I'm going to do the same slides.

27:25David JP Phillips: I'm going to do the same stories. I'm going to do the same metaphors. I'm going to do the same thing. is a bit adapted, of course, because clients are different, but it's going to be quite the same. So how do I avoid that being robotic? How can I go out on stage and truly give them my everything? Well, before I go up, I charge myself with dopamine before testosterone. So I do that by replaying my origin story. What I refer to in an origin story is why did I write the book? and I wrote the book because I was depressed and I had been depressed for 17 years. I had wasted so much of my life in darkness and I can't even go into how horrible that was.

28:09David JP Phillips: But even just, I just want, I don't want to get into it. It's just horrible. But those 17 years, a waste, so much of a waste. I hatched my depression when I learned about these neurosubstances because Just that is what literally antidepressants attack are these neurosubstances. But I learned how to harness them myself personally. And I just became obsessed with this subject, which led me to years after that, write a book and years after that, delivering the keynote. So what I do before going up on stage is I replay my origin story. I go back to the darkness. I go back to the revelation of hacking my depression.

28:44and I can feel the shift from going dark to light.

28:49David JP Phillips: And it's so powerful that I tell myself, if I go up there on stage and I can influence one single person to feel anything remotely close to me, what I felt, oh, that's going to be my success. And I can feel this flow in my veins that every single slide is going to be delivered with passion. Every single metaphor is going to be delivered with passion. And then I do the testosterone exercise, and then I do the oxytocin exercise, and then I walk out on that stage, and I'm centered, I'm there, and nowhere else, I'm confident, and I'm caring.

29:26Big Swings Only Host: That is powerful, David. Powerful. Thank you for sharing, especially for me as a keynote speaker myself. You know, sometimes it can feel a little bit routine, but it's important to be able to tap into something that makes sure that you still care. And that was such a powerful note that I know I should end there, but I'm too damn curious. I have one more question before we wrap. Go, man, go. I'm thinking about this because a lot of times there are people who are listening to the show who are afraid of difficult conversations. Even sometimes expert negotiators, there's a particular person, a particular situation where you just don't feel confident, where you struggle to stand up for yourself and have the hard conversation.

30:03Big Swings Only Host: So for the people who are experiencing fear before an important conversation that they know they need to have, what would you say is the best neurochemical cocktail for that scenario?

30:14David JP Phillips: Well, you can attack it from two perspectives, three perspectives. Perspective number one is full force, which is the testosterone and the dopamine. So you just go in like just forcefully. You're just a beast. Secondly, if that is not your cup of tea, you would go the soft way, which is oxytocin, which is you come in from a very caring point. So you're literally you're you're coming from a point of appreciation, of gratefulness for anything and everything that they may have done or might have done or could have done. And if not that, you justify their behavior by maybe just replaying a made-up story that their family situation is bad, that they were brought up in a particular way, that they're not responsible for themselves.

31:11David JP Phillips: You go to the soft side of the human connection. You look at perspectives like we're on this planet hurling through space. Just become small, become insignificant, but become caring and appreciative. Because everything in your demeanor then will de-weaponize them. It'll remove their protection because you just come in with a heart, man. That breaks most people, as long as they're not psychopaths, you know, because then they can't sense that. Right. And then the third one, the third strategy would be endorphins. So endorphins comes from, it's two words put together. It comes from indigenous morphine.

32:01David JP Phillips: So morphine is a painkiller and endorphin has similar effects. However, morphine is way more potent. So if you increase your endorphin levels before a meeting like that, you are usually less affected by any kind of pain that they may inflict on you. So you're simply like you create a protection around you. It's the same. There's a similar study that if you want to go the long game, I told you the long game on testosterone. But imagine you have this meeting on Friday. So the study showed that if you look at predominantly happy faces for an entire day, you will be less able to see sad faces at the end of the day, sad and angry faces.

32:53David JP Phillips: So imagine doing that for like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you just look at happy like whatever you do, your feed is just funny or great or happy or whatever. You don't look at the news at all because that's just sad faces more or less. you just program yourself to not be able to even realize that the other person is pissed off yeah playing around with your substances and this is self-leadership right you know it's like so many people they take their emotions for granted like they wake up with them and then they just stay in them and maybe they use music to kind of change them they're so much more moldable than most people imagine.

33:32Big Swings Only Host: This is incredible. I've got a full page of notes and one page is not sufficient because I know there are multiple pages in your book, High on Life. David, I really appreciate you coming in today. And before you go, just remind the listeners about the book and how they can get in touch with you and work with you too. Absolutely.

33:51David JP Phillips: So yeah, absolutely. You can reach me on Instagram, LinkedIn. Both of those are probably the easiest if you want to reach out with a DM or something like that. I usually respond within a day or two. Otherwise, the book High on Life is out here and there in America on Amazon. So, you know, you can pick that up. There's no American audiobook, but I am half British. So you'll have to stand out with my English. But there is an English audiobook if you want to pick that up on Audible or something like that as well. If you want to learn more about public speaking and what I do, I have a phenomenal global program, which is called Presenta Mastery, where I go live with my group every week.

34:30David JP Phillips: And yeah, you'll just learn how to become a master presenter and self-leadership through that as well. So I invite people to give me a holler if they're interested in that and I'll give them the information they need.

34:41Big Swings Only Host: Incredible. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

34:44David JP Phillips: Thank you, man. I've just got to say that when I came into the podcast, you just gave such a beautiful human sensation to me. like a caring, kind cessation. I know this is something that you do often, and maybe sometimes you do it robotically, I don't know, but I just wanted you to know that truly it felt warm, heartful, and caring. So you must have done some oxytocin injecting before you came into the call, man.

35:16Big Swings Only Host: Thanks, man. That means a lot, especially nine years in, over 1 ,500 episodes deep. I still love it. I still love it. Because again, like you, I realize like just one person can listen. One person and it changes their whole life. So I was excited to have you on, man, because I see how powerful this is. So anything I could do to help spread the message, I'm down.

35:35David JP Phillips: I'm impressed.

35:36Big Swings Only Host: I'm impressed, man. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you. Likewise. Congratulations. You've just joined an elite club. By listening to a full episode, you're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team. So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show. The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations. Keep learning, keep practicing, and keep getting better. Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations.

36:14Big Swings Only Host: Again, thank you for joining the team. We're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode. I'll catch you later.

36:26David JP Phillips: If the other person is in cortisol, it's very difficult to negotiate with that person.

36:31Big Swings Only Host: So how can we prepare the right cocktail for the other person in a negotiation so that we can affect her or his mood?

36:39David JP Phillips: Well, it depends on how early you can start affecting that mood. So let's put it like this then. You can affect a person's oxytocin levels by anything from the paintings that hang in the hallway to the room that they're going to. You can affect it by the scent that is in the air. You can affect it by the music that is being played. You can affect it by the color that is around them. You can affect it by the people meeting them when they open the door. The person sitting at the desk, if it's in a company, will affect their oxytocin levels. So this doesn't have to begin in the negotiation room, but adjusting the person's mindset can begin far, far, far before that.

37:23David JP Phillips: And then in the actual room, obviously, my second TEDx talk is called The Magical Science of Storytelling. And that's where I teach people how to inject these neurosubstances in another person by telling stories. So if you tell this story, it increases dopamine. If you tell this story, it increases oxytocin. Now, sometimes we're not perhaps allowed to tell a full story, like 30, 40 seconds, but metaphors are very powerful as well. Anchor words are very powerful as well. So the way you speak, the metaphors you use are very powerful when it comes to adjusting another person's mindset as well. Because what you want to do here is actually increase preferably oxytocin because that brings down cortisol.

38:10David JP Phillips: So that's one of those key things that you potentially want to decrease. And you have to remember as well that cortisol goes down slowly. So if they're high on cortisol when you see them, you can get their cortisol levels to go down slow, slow, slow over a period of about 10, 15 minutes. But then you know that you're heading in the right direction. So wait 10, 15 minutes before you pick something up that is sensitive. Just give it that moment. We all have this, you know, like there's an email that drops into our inbox and we're like, what on earth? Who wrote that? Oh, I'm going to give them. And you got like, I'm going to get it, I'm going to get it.

38:46David JP Phillips: And you send it off. And 15 minutes later, you are not proud of your behavior because you allow that high level of cortisol to make the decision for you. But if you waited 15 minutes, your decision would be not as reactive as that.

39:01Big Swings Only Host: And that would make a difference. Wow. This is so good, David. I don't know if anybody ever told you this, but you should write a book.

39:13David JP Phillips: Good one, my man. Good one. I'll do that. I'll come around to that one day.

39:18Big Swings Only Host: Oh, man. This is great, man. Listen, I appreciate it.