In short
Podcast Episode Notes: Capital Allocators – Inside the Institutional Investment Industry
Episode Title: WTT – The Impermanence of Permanent Capital Host: Ted Seides Episode Description: This episode discusses the challenges and misconceptions surrounding the concept of permanent capital in investment vehicles.
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Key Concepts
Permanent Capital
- Definition: Permanent capital refers to investment vehicles that do not provide redemption rights to investors, allowing managers to invest for the long term without worrying about short-term liquidity needs.
- Examples: Closed-end funds, such as the Morgan Stanley Government Income Trust (GVT), are highlighted as permanent capital vehicles.
Investment Vehicles Discussed
- Closed-End Funds: Publicly traded funds that do not allow investors to redeem shares directly, offering liquidity through the stock market.
- Public Permanent Capital Vehicles:
- Bill Ackman's Pershing Square Holdings (PSH): Trades at a discount to NAV and employs a leveraged investment strategy.
- Blue Owl Capital: A public asset manager overseeing $140 billion with different permanent capital strategies.
- Private Equity Strategy: Brent Beshore's Permanent Equity, which has a 25-year life and pays out free cash flow annually.
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Key Discussions
Advantages of Permanent Capital
- Long-Term Orientation: Managers can focus on long-term investment strategies without the pressure of immediate investor withdrawals.
- Alignment with Liabilities: Institutions such as universities, foundations, and pension funds can better match the duration of their investments with long-term spending needs.
Challenges of Permanent Capital
- Not Truly Permanent: Many permanent capital vehicles are not genuinely permanent. For instance:
- Closed-end funds may trade at discounts, leading to shareholder pressure to redeem shares.
- The dynamics within investment firms can change, posing risks to the longevity of these vehicles.
- Human Element: The reliance on key individuals within investment organizations can jeopardize the stability of permanent capital. For example:
- Leadership struggles, as seen in Blue Owl, may lead to changes that affect investor rights.
- The average tenure of top institutional investors is under six years, introducing job risk.
Behavioral Implications
- Permanent capital can help reduce behavioral biases in investment decision-making by encouraging longer-term perspectives among managers and allocators.
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Conclusion The episode concludes with a reflection on the complexities surrounding permanent capital, acknowledging that while it offers advantages, it also presents significant risks and challenges. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding these dynamics in institutional investing.
Additional Resources
- For further insights, listeners are encouraged to visit [capitalallocators.com](https://www.capitalallocators.com/) for past episodes and premium content.
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Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:04Back in 1994, I was overseeing Yale's boring, internally managed bond portfolio. We benchmarked the portfolio to the Lehman Brothers Government Bond Index and occasionally sought to add value buying securities with the same characteristics as a bond at a discount. One example was the Morgan Stanley Government Income Trust, GVT, a closed-end fund comprised of securities backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government that traded around a 10 % discount to net asset value. Closed-end funds are one type of permanent capital vehicle. The manager of the fund does not offer redemption rights to investors.
0:44Instead, closed-end funds are publicly listed on an exchange, and investors get liquidity by trading shares. When we found a good manager trading at a discount at Yale, we supplemented our long-only portfolio with closed-end funds investing in domestic equities, international equities, and fixed income. GVT was my first professional involvement with a permanent capital vehicle. Permanent capital vehicles are a dream for money managers. Whether markets go up or down, or investors fall in or out of love with their strategy, the assets can't leave. Managers can play for the long term without worrying about interim liquidity needs that almost everyone else in the industry faces.
1:24Even 10-year private capital strategies end up buying assets with longer durations than the funds can hold. From an allocator's perspective, permanent capital vehicles make intuitive sense, aligning the duration of their underlying investments with that of their spending needs. Universities educating scholars for centuries, foundations supporting humanity, sovereign wealth funds supporting citizens for generations, and pension funds doing the same for retirees have an incentive to optimize their return potential by matching the duration of their assets and liabilities. Continuation funds initiated from investors' desire to hold great assets rather than watch GPs flip companies from sponsor to sponsor, incurring frictional costs along the way.
2:10I currently invest in three permanent capital vehicles that offer different attractive features, although this is not investment advice. Two are public vehicles with the permanent capital label, Bill Ackman's Pershing Square Holdings and Blue Owl Capital, and one is a private equity strategy, Brent Beshore's permanent equity. PSH offers Bill Ackman's strategy with a little leverage and trades at a significant discount to NAV. OWL is a public asset manager that oversees$140 billion and collects fees on three permanent capital strategies. Permanent equity is a 25-year life private equity fund that pays out free cash flow annually and owns businesses with no intention to sell.
2:56The problem with so-called permanent capital vehicles is that most aren't permanent at all. Closed-end funds tend to trade at discounts to NAV and are subject to pressure from shareholders to narrow or eliminate the discount. For example, Bill Ackman regularly buys back shares of PSH, each time increasing NAV per share but effectively redeeming a small sliver of AUM in the process. Brent Beshore's funds are effectively permanent capital, but neither he nor I know what will happen at the end of the quarter century term described in the fund documents. Another challenge with permanent capital vehicles arises when people are involved, which is always.
3:36The media recently reported about strife inside Blue Owl. The leaders of two of its divisions, Owl Rock and Dial, apparently aren't getting along and may part ways. I have not read Dial's fund documents, but I imagine investors could have a key man provision that triggers a withdrawal right if its founder, Michael Reese, departed. The potential for change within an investment organization poses an underwriting challenge for allocators considering a permanent capital strategy. In private equity and venture capital, GPs sign on to manage a fund for a decade, even though the average length of a marriage in the United States is significantly shorter.
4:16Permanent capital vehicles take it even further in assuming individuals driving the investment strategy will be around in their seat until death do us part. Let's not forget that allocators are people too. The organizations they represent may own assets with a perpetual life, but the individuals making investment decisions on behalf of the institutions are anything but eternal. Charles Scarina reports that only about a third of the top 100 endowment CIOs have held their role for a decade or more, and the average tenure is under six years. As Jeremy Grantham pointed out long ago, job risk is the biggest risk in institutional investing.
4:57Despite the messiness of the concept, permanent capital, or at least longer-duration capital than others, provides a competitive advantage that allows a manager to persist through market cycles and organizational challenges in an industry whose time horizons are shorter than everyone believes they should be. And whether a feature or a bug, permanent capital vehicles are one way for allocators to reduce behavioral bias in decision-making. If I recall correctly, GVT held$800 million in assets, and its manager, Raj Gupta, ran a multi-billion dollar open-end fund side-by-side. Through a series of persuasive private letters, David Swenson convinced the board of the closed-end fund to merge the vehicle into the open-end fund and eliminate the discount.
5:43In the blink of an eye, the permanent capital vehicle was gone. Thanks for listening to the show. If you like what you heard, hop on our website at capitalallocators.com, where you can access past shows, join our mailing list, and sign up for premium content. Have a good one, and see you next time.
From the publisher
"Nothing lasts forever" as the aphorism goes, and such is the case with permanent capital. The quirk in the theoretically sound concept cause some challenges for both managers and allocators.
Read Ted’s blog here.


