#44: President of Microsoft Asia: Lessons from My Mum, Asia & Leading 30,000 People

0:00Rachel Lim: Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Who We Are podcast. I am so excited today for this conversation and even more so because I get to have it in person with someone I've really been looking forward to learning from. Rodrigo Kede Lima is the president of Microsoft Asia, leading an incredible team of over 30 ,000 people across 20 countries in this region. But beyond the title, what really drew me to him was the way he speaks about leadership with clarity, humanity and a deep sense of responsibility for the people in his charge. He's someone who has navigated bold transitions across industries, continents and cultures and still continues to show up with purpose and presence in every chapter.

0:46Rachel Lim: Today, we'll go beyond the headlines. We'll talk about identity, reinvention, fatherhood, and what it truly means to lead with soul in a fast-changing world. I'm also curious to learn what keeps him anchored, what he's still unlearning, and maybe, you know, even the quiet moments that have shaped the leader and person he is today. Rodrigo, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Happy to be here. Maybe, you know, we can start by you taking us back to your early days, before the titles, before the companies. Who was Rodrigo as a child? And what parts of that boy still live in you today?

1:26Oh, that's a good question. You know, we're doing, I'm part of this YPO and we're doing an exercise next month. And exactly, part of the exercise is to go back and ask some people that know you since you were a kid and try to ask them the same question. What is him today? And any deviation from what you think he was going to be when he was younger? So I was always a happy, adventure, curious kid that was always very competitive. And I was always around a lot of friends and I always loved people. So I think at the basic, I'm still the same person. I don't think I'm deviated from my essence. When I was younger, there was a lot of discussion about what I was going to be when I grew up.

2:35And my family was expecting me because I told them that I was going to go to med school, which changed. But yeah, I mean, I think I'm kind of the same person. And I think I've been trying to not deviate from that. I'm still, my mom keeps saying I'm still a kid.

2:58Rachel Lim: Always childlike. And I think that childlike curiosity, like what you spoke about, I think comes through also a lot in your journey. I want to, you know, go back to what you touched on. You wanted to go to med school. And I also read that you really considered being a doctor. What drew you to that path? And perhaps what part of that original or initial dream do you still bring with you in your life today? Yeah, so I grew up, and I don't know exactly why I grew up saying I was going to be a doctor. I was very connected to my granddad, which was much older. And I think he had some health issues.

3:32And I think part of that was my desire to help him. But I was also that kid that we were playing soccer. Soccer was still a big thing in Brazil. I was playing soccer and there was some dispute. Everyone would come to me and say, ask my opinion, right?

3:52Rachel Lim: Yeah, what do you think? Yeah, as I would be the one to trust. And even if it's against my team, I would give the right. Objective. Yeah, I would say the truth. I wouldn't say something just to get the point or win. Amazing. So I think I always thought that going to mad school would give me the chance to help people. But in Brazil, you have to file for your senior applications to all the universities that you're considering going. So I filed to 10. Nine, I fired for med school and one I fired for engineering school. They didn't have a med school there. And I ended up going to become an engineer, which surprised my family.

4:39But and I don't know, I don't know what drove that. I think was basically my instincts.

4:45Rachel Lim: And, you know, it's so amazing how when you were sharing also, like since a tender age, you know, people could already rely on you for a strength that you had, which was, you know, being very objective. in any situation as well. How many siblings do you have? And what was life like growing up? I have two sisters, two loving sisters. Are they older or younger? They're younger. So one lives in the West. The other one lives in Brazil, in Rio. And you told me that, you know, this morning before you came for this interview, you were also speaking to your mom. You have a very close-knit family, it seems.

5:22Yep, I do. Yeah, my mom and my grandpa They had a lot of influence in my life. As I told you before, my mom was the first woman to have an executive role in Brazil in the 60s.

5:37Rachel Lim: Amazing. And that was so, like, because she was the first, she was on TVs and newspapers because of that. And there are so many interesting stories about her career. Like the first time that she went to work using pants, not a skirt. her boss said why you're using you know pants because i want to use pants uh so she was pushing like she was challenging the system like there was this when when actually she was offered a c-level job uh for the first time they said we're going to give you the job but not the promotion and she said why so the you know her boss danced a lot and she said look who is the most who is the leading candidate for the position?

6:23It's you. Do you believe there is anyone that can do the job better than I will do? No. Then you give me the position or you give to someone else. I will not do it. So a lot of people in her position would just take the position, not get the promotion, and say, I will change the world when I'm there. She didn't do it. She didn't accept that. Yeah, she didn't accept that. So she was the one when I was already working with a high position in the company. she would come to me like in a breakfast on on a Sunday morning in her house and ask me about you know how many women you have reporting directly to you right and she was she would ask questions about and so so she was was very interesting what a trailblazer especially you know

7:07Rachel Lim: having all these characteristics in her time is really uh so respected yeah I want to ask you What were then some of the beliefs that you've inherited from her or your family growing up about success, failure, or even worth? So a few things. And I think I was heavily influenced by her and my grandpa. But first is that you only grow when you're out of your comfort zone. So out of your comfort zone is really you wake up in the morning and you don't know where to start. so when I looked at my career I think I took that always as a principle. The second thing was always be around people that are better, different, smarter, braver than you and I think for a lot of people especially when you're young that's counterintuitive but she always sat out to me and which brings my belief in diversity.

8:10I think diversity is the more diverse is your network, your connections or your experiences, the better your ability to connect the dots, to read in between the lines, to identify patterns that are not obvious. So in my life, I have always tried to be around people that were different from me. I always had different tribes that I was part of, from engineering school to my surfing friends to the health exercise friends. So it was very different. All my friends, they were very different from each other. And I think the last thing is success. And that's more from my grandpa. he used to say that obsession wins over talent.

9:03So you can have a lot of talent, but success is going to come if you really work hard. He had a second thing that he always taught me too was that struggling, he always said that in Portuguese, but struggling is a biological requirement for greatness. So that's okay if you're going through a tough time because you're only going to be really good if you have those moments to learn. So, you know, I think I used that throughout my life. Of course, life and career, they're never linear. Yeah. But I used it all my life.

9:47Rachel Lim: Yeah. It sounds really incredible having all of this positive influence and bold examples for you in your life. and they must be so proud of you and also, you know, the journey that you have had so far. But, you know, going back to your professional career, Rodrigo, you have made some, I was reading up and about you and your journey and was really so in awe of, you know, the bold moves that you have made throughout your career from Latin America to Asia. And during those transitions, one of the things that really came to my mind that I want to ask you is, Were there moments of doubts, uncertainty, and how did you navigate through these moments?

10:27All the time. I mean, when you leave your hometown, your country, and you move to another country with a different language, especially if you have a lot of external responsibility dealing with customers, so everything you do is not in your native language. It is an interesting process. Many times I question myself, should I have stayed in my home country? There are always opportunities in your home country. Brazil is a big country. But the challenge and the adrenaline and the curiosity and the learning was always stronger and bigger than the concerns or the challenge. So I always had questions, but I always thought that I can go wrong.

11:18I mean, I'm going to learn a ton.

11:20Rachel Lim: What an amazing mindset. But in that moment, you know, then where perhaps you couldn't see beyond the challenges that were just right in front of you. What do you tell yourself or in moments where you really feel like you're drowning? What helps you get through all of these difficult seasons? Well, first, I think it has to be your family, right? So you need your family, you know, and you need a few friends, right? They help you go through everything because they know who you are in essence. and also these believe that the journey is more important. So if I'm learning, if there is something new that I'm doing, even if it goes bad, if for some reason it's not as successful as I planned, that's okay, right?

12:15You have to assume that you have to believe on the end game, right? So there is this book that I love from Simon Sinek, Infinite Game, I think it's about that, right? So you've got to take all the challenges as an opportunity to learn. You know, they're difficult sometimes. You get angry, you get upset, you get frustrated, but you've got to keep moving.

12:35Rachel Lim: And if you could share with us, what is something that you learned, whether about yourself or the situation recently? I think that when you, so I moved to Asia about nine, ten months ago. I think that when you, it's very humbling when you go and have to deal with other cultures. When you are in your own country, in your own culture, you kind of know everything. You know all the stories. You know all the jokes. You know all the sports. You know all the history. So if somebody goes on TV and says something you know, when you are in a different country, you don't know anything. so you really need to step back and say there's a lot to learn uh so this is this is my biggest um was my biggest learning uh since i moved to asia was assume that i have to learn much more than i initially thought which is which is feels good but it's amazing to me how you would continuously in different parts of your journey, is you put yourself in situations where you have to, you know, start all over again, you know, even at this stage in your life.

13:57Yes, and it feels really, I was asking, somebody was asking me that question last week. I mean, do you feel you're starting again because you moved to Asia? I said, well, yes and no. I mean, nobody knows you. You go to customers who never met you before. So it feels like you have to prove yourself, right? So, you know, I know many customers in the Americas that they know me for 10, 20 years. So they trust me.

14:27Rachel Lim: Yeah. I do have an image in the market. Yeah. I do have a reputation, but not here. So you can't take anything for granted. So it's almost like a new start. And a new relationship you have to build all over again. Yes, yes. But I love that at the end, right? Because it's the amount of things you learn. I've been saying that for a while now, that in 10 months in Asia, I probably learned more than in my last five years. Amazing. In these times of change and uncertainty, besides family and friends, what anchors you? Is it a specific ritual, routine, or mantra that really anchors you? Well, I'm obsessed with wellness, with health, because I do have a crazy life, a crazy schedule.

15:20And I really don't want to get older and have restrictions and challenges. What's the point, right? I need to be able to play with the kids, to surf when I'm a child. I mean, my mom, when she was 75, one day I was in the U.S., she sent me this picture of she jumping on a parachute. Wow. She was 75. Yeah. So I was like, I want to be healthy when I'm older. So I do take care of my health. And I do a little bit of like crazy stuff like cryotherapy, infrared sauna. I try to meditate. I do exercise. I eat reasonably well. I should eat better. But I think that's important. And I try to wake up around the same time.

16:08I try to do fasting sometimes in the week. So I think taking care of your body and taking care of your mind, I think it's important for you to have a good life.

16:21Rachel Lim: I love that. Because a lot of times there is a lot of focus on the physical health, taking care of our hardware. But our software, our internal health, like you talked about mind, I think it's something that people often perhaps neglect. But of course, in today's world, we're paying a lot more attention to it. So what are some perhaps for yourself, you know, you talk about meditation. What else do you do to also ensure that you stay on top of your game internally, mentally and emotionally? So one of the things I like to do in addition of meditating, I mean, some types of exercise for me is meditation.

16:57Like when I go surfing, as an example, it is meditation because I completely empty my mind. I forget about everything. That has a similar effect. I like to do things that are probably different. Like I do play the guitar. I do have like my instruments that helps me disconnect from this life and go to another kind of life.

17:25Rachel Lim: Into a different world. And I try to read because when I read, it also disconnects me from this busy, noisy world. I love so much reading that I give all my leadership teams books every quarter. Well, please tell me, what are some books that you would highly recommend? The last book that I gave to them was this book from Clayton Christensen. He wrote The Innovator's Dilemma. Okay, I'm going to get that. He's a professor from Harvard. He was an advisor for all these massive tech entrepreneurs. He passed in 2020. In 2010, he found out he had cancer. And as a very methodical Harvard professor, he used his methodologies that he was using in business.

18:13He was a massive consulting team too. And he wanted to understand what success would mean in his life. Yes, he was like, I hope that all these companies and these people become really successful. What's going to be success in my life? And I don't want to give you spoilers, but to make the story short, the conclusion of the book is that there is one thing that measures our life, and it's the positive impact and influence you have into others. And there are some videos that are funny where he was a big guy with an interesting voice, and he was Catholic. And he was explaining, you know, what he think was going to happen when he dies.

19:01And he was like, okay, I'm going to die and then I'm going to go to this heaven. And God's going to come to me and say, hey, Clay, let's go through your life. Clay, I put you in that situation. That's what you did. I put you in that circumstance. That's how you react. So I do think life is full of those situations and circumstances where we have that mission, that obligation to help others. We don't have to do it 100 % of the time, but everyone has a similar mission. So I wanted to, one of the reasons I work for Microsoft, by the way, because I do believe this is a company that goes beyond the technology.

19:45They want to use technology for good to create progress. And I try to get that with my team too. I mean, don't think this is just a job. This company can be a platform for you to do good.

20:01Rachel Lim: I love that so much, you know, about the importance of having purpose and impact, even in the work that we do. You lead 30 ,000 people across a vast region. what does it really mean to lead at scale with soul and purpose yeah so it's a lot of people so um one of the things i found out through time is it's really hard to scale so you have to think systemically when you work with your organization just before you stepped into this role how many people were you leading uh i think the team was a little bit north of seven eight thousand but i had bigger teams before i had like almost 50 000 before in my career so so yeah when you when you really manage big teams uh i think you really you really have to think differently uh what i've been trying to do with them is um is is first uh understanding that culture is more important than anything second um i don't believe in traditional hierarchy and these corporations They are these big giants with structures.

21:11I'm a believer that everyone should connect to anyone if there is a reason for it. So I go directly to somebody like five, six, seven levels down, and I want people to come to me when they believe I am the person that will address that situation faster. And I also been trying to, these big companies, they create great stewards. But I think if you're not cautious, they kill the entrepreneurship, which firsthand made the company great.

21:48Rachel Lim: Yeah. So I think my goal is to drive that culture of fast communication, always learning, and people should not forget that they're not just stewards. They should balance a little bit stewardship and entrepreneurship. And I need to make sure that they understand that this company is a company that it's not just creating great technology. It is a company that has a role. is a company that wants to set the standards for what now AI is going to be going forward, that technology can solve many of the most complicated problems of society. That's what I want them to think of. And creating this culture, like you said, where everyone has a voice and where people don't just perform, where they also feel like they belong and are contributing to a larger purpose and impact.

22:46Rachel Lim: What are some of the rituals or routines that when you came into this role, you implemented or removed? Well, what I tried to do was the first thing that I did was get very close to the team on the ground. That's how we call it. I've been traveling like crazy over the past 10 months. You know, you have this app that measures your, reads your calendar and measures where you have been and how many flights. So I've been like eight times around the earth in the past year. Wow. I mean, it's more than 300 ,000 kilometers. So what I've tried to do is spend time with the teams on the ground in each one of the countries and go to customers and have round tables.

23:35That's the best way to get a sense of what's going on. and to get them to understand that I'm part of their team. As I don't believe in traditional hierarchy, I want them to understand that I work for them, not just they work for me because my role is to make them successful. And to make them successful, I need to understand what's going on. So that culture with less hierarchy, more agility is what I've been trying to implement.

24:06Rachel Lim: And what's been the most fulfilling part of your journey for yourself so far? I think the most important thing for me is, so there are many, many things that are fulfilling. But being in Asia at this point, I think I'm a lucky guy because what is happening in Asia right now, not just in terms of innovation. it is amazing so I was given an opportunity that is like every time I travel to a country and I meet a customer and I see what they are doing and how they are doing I see my own team growing it's it's very fulfilling to see that and you you've had a very privileged and special seat where you have literally not just seen but immersed yourself in different cultures from Latin America to, you know, America to even Asia.

25:07Rachel Lim: What would you say is the key strength of Asia and leaders in Asia? So I think there are many things, right? I think Asia was for many years a hub for the world, for labor and for manufacturing. and this has changed, I think Asia now is a hub for innovation for the world. And I usually use a term that I grew up in a world that was made in China, made in Vietnam. And I think we're living in a world now that is created in for the world. So I think that transition made leadership and people in Asia extremely hardworking and resilient. and creative. So, you know, I think, you know, you have those moments where the stars align.

26:07Rachel Lim: Yeah. And I think it's happening to Asia right now. It is happening to Asia right now. And I think, you know, that also reminded me of even the recent example of, you know, I was watching a YouTube review of some American and European car enthusiasts. They were giving reviews on the Chinese cars and they were just blown away at how incredible, You know, like the Chinese class as they say are heads and shoulders above what's being made in Europe and America today. And it really goes to show, like you said, I think the world is really changing and changing rapidly. And the Asians are really stepping up in a very strong way.

26:44Rachel Lim: You have also said in some interviews that, you know, that you think that Asia can lead the way for this AI revolution. What do you think are some values that we need to hold on to as we build towards this future? Well, so AI is such a disruptive technology that I think we are still in the early days. I usually compare AI to the previous waves of technology disruption. If you think about the PC, then the internet, then mobile, and then cloud, how these things change the world, change how we work, change the business models of companies. We don't think about it, but if I go and take the internet, what happened to your business?

27:30If I take your PC, right? I think AI is more profound and deeper than any of these previous waves of technology disruption. Those previous waves of technology disruption, they somehow were democratization of technology. So more technology available to more people and more companies of different sizes. AI is democratization of knowledge. So I think we're still in the early days of AI. But I do believe that because of the, you know, because of AI is all around knowledge, I think it's really important that we have discussions about responsible use of AI, government, you know, companies, small, medium, big companies.

28:22I think it's really we really need to make sure that the human side is put into it if you think about like social media social media was exploding in what 7 and 7 8, 9, 10 I don't think we discussed social media at that time the way we should and today it's a great technology it's a great tool and a lot of people are using but people are talking about the impact on kids people on mental health. So I think we should learn with that and make sure that we do have the discussions earlier in AI, which I think we are having the discussions in AI with society in general, because this is a very profound change.

29:07Rachel Lim: And for yourself, you know, after speaking to you and understanding you a little better, I also learned that you are someone who is huge on personal development and growth. So what are some things that you yourself of learning or unlearning around the areas of tech, leadership, and self? Oh, that's a broad question. So I look up. I think the first time that I realized that I needed to develop that muscle to unlearn was actually when I moved to the West with my kids in 2017. My younger one, I have two kids. One is in college computer science in New York. The other one is in school here in Singapore, in high school.

29:51So when we moved to the U.S., he was seven, the younger one, and he didn't speak a word of English. And we put him in a public school. The public school had English as a second language. And I still remember, we had like two or three months. I was driving the car. I picked him up in school. and I simply asked him, hey Gabe, Gabriel is his name, hey Gabe, is the school here better or worse than the school in Brazil, which was a private school in Brazil? He said, well, I think the school here is better. And I was like, really? Better? Why? He said, well, I don't know that, you know, first, there's no bullying here.

30:36I said, what? You're telling me there is no bullying in the U.S.? And then, you know, I was driving, he put his face like next to me and said, dad, it might be bullying, but I don't speak the language, so I don't know.

30:50Rachel Lim: Ignorance is bliss. So for me, that was an aha moment because English is his first language. He speaks Portuguese, makes some mistakes.

31:05And he can't, I mean, his writing is bad in Portuguese. But what's the message there? The message is he was a kid. He was not worried about learning something. He was not concerned with the challenge. He was like, I'm going to do it.

31:25Rachel Lim: And in fact, he saw the bright side of it, the positive side of it. Yeah, so he was in – that's why adults, when we have to learn another language, we do have accents. And kids, they don't. They don't. That's why when you get a doctor that is used to regular surgery and you've got to use robotics, he struggles a little bit. So I use that for me because I try to challenge myself on everything that I do to do differently. AI is exactly that because everything that you do, if you're writing an email, if you are writing a document, if you are researching for something, everything that you do is going to be different.

32:10If you're a teacher in school, so everyone is going to have to unlearn, not unlearn the topic, but unlearn how to do it and find the different ways to do it with AI. So AI is going to be that discussion that my son had on asteroids because it's going to, everyone is going to need that ability to unlearn.

32:35Rachel Lim: Yeah. But it's going to have to feel that that's okay. Because if you feel that you're going to climb a huge mountain to unlearn, that's not going to happen. So you need that same kid spirit. Yeah. Child. Childlike. Yeah. Yeah. And what would you say to someone who's listening to you and say that, oh, but you know, I didn't grow up in a world like this. And I'm so used to another different world. And it's going to take all of me to be able to unlearn and relearn something completely new. What would your advice be? So, look, the advice has to be that you have to start, right? First of all, a lot of people think that this AI reinvention is about the technology.

33:21And the technology will be there, but it's not about the technology. I think this is about processes. This is about each one. And I like to give people a comparison of Excel. The first time you used Excel, the first time I used it was about 30 years ago. And you say, by the way, Excel is what we call a low-code tool because you really can program. You can write code there. Everyone uses Excel. If you're in finance, if you're in HR, if you're in marketing, if you are in sales. So why people don't feel constrained? They don't feel that's a challenge. They just feel it's going to take time. And once they do it, they're going to feel more productive.

34:12AI is that. So if you are a teacher, if you are a police officer, if you're a lawyer, if you are a doctor, and we have plenty of examples, you have to start using AI. I had this presentation that I used to do a few times that the title was AI is the new math. What's that? So why, if you're going to be a doctor, if you're going to be a lawyer or a dentist, you have to learn algebra in school. It's there. Everyone has to go through it. You're not going to use it. But the point is the cognitive development that comes with it. So I think AI is the same. If you're going to be a doctor, if you're going to be a lawyer, whatever career you decide to go for, you need to understand that AI is going to be in everything.

35:05You might not need to code anything, to write any line of code. You might not work with that, but you need to understand how it works. So that's why I keep saying AI is the new math. So you have to accept that this is something important for you. Accept that you're going to need to do things differently because of AI. And it's a massive opportunity. It's a massive opportunity.

35:27Rachel Lim: I love that. And where would you suggest or recommend for someone to start if they're overwhelmed? Well, what I tell customers is, I tell them to give access to everyone in the company to use the paid or the free version of our tools, like when they are my customer, like Copilot. But everyone should do it on a personal basis. You should have an AI tool to help you research, to help you prepare a recipe, to help you plan a trip, to help you analyze a document. So when you start listing the things that you can do, and, you know, the first time might be challenging, the second time is going to be easier.

36:13But when you start listing every little thing that you can do using an AI tool, you're going to start getting comfortable with it. And that's what we need. We need people that get comfortable with AI. We need people that help AI get better. Because the more people use it, the more they will put the feedback in the system and say, I need to adjust this. I need to adjust that.

36:36Rachel Lim: To refine it, to make it even better and better. Wow. I am, you know, going to switch gears as we move towards the end of our conversation to about your personal life and, you know, kids, the way you talk about being a dad. What has fatherhood taught you and what have your kids also taught you that perhaps no boardroom could ever teach you? Yeah, many things. So at some point I was trying to make sure that the kids have, you know, two sports and they had good grades and they had this and they had that. I realized that the most important thing is you build the right values on your kids, right? And my older son is 21 now.

37:16And now he's one of my best friends. So it's so interesting because, oh, when he was 16, 17, was like that challenge every day. You know, I felt that he didn't want me close.

37:31Rachel Lim: Yeah. He didn't want me like asking questions. And we're like, it's all that teenager thing, which I think it's normal. But then he made like this very nice, honest, great adult at 21, like hardworking kid. And I was like, okay. It turned out great. It turned out really good. What's the secret? So it's really at the end, you know, it's about building the right values and giving the right example. because at the end, look, what is success in life? Success in life is at one day, the work is going to be less important. Everyone's going to forget. Most of people will forget what I did. I think success for me is when I'm older, my kids want to hang out with me intentionally, not because it's Christmas or because it's Thanksgiving or because it's a national holiday.

38:26It's because they want to be with me. So, yeah, I mean, it's...

38:32Rachel Lim: This is so powerful. Yeah. And can I unpack that a little? When you talk about instilling the right values, what values were you intentional about instilling in them? Well, first, I want to always be kind to people. I want them to be honest. And I want them to be hardworking. I mean, there are probably other things that are important too, but I was like, if you treat people well, the way you want to be treated, be honest with yourself and with others, right? Honesty is something really important these days. And really work hard. I don't care where you're going to end up. If you're going to have a nice title, a big job, happiness doesn't come from that.

39:20Happiness comes from family, from friends, from having a career where you were doing something meaningful, We were helping others. So that's what I tried to do with them. And I'm happy, you know.

39:35Rachel Lim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, pretty good. Rodrigo, what do you think matters to you now that perhaps didn't matter to you a few years ago? You know, when you get to a certain age, you start changing your priorities, right? I gave a friend that was transitioning career another book, Second Mountain from David Brooks, which is a book that talks about the first part of your life. It's about you. You're taking, right, from the system. You're building your career. You're making some good money. You're raising your kids. And then there is a second part, which is you giving it back. that's connected to the other book that I mentioned to you from the Harvard professor.

40:28I think I have been on a journey over the past few years to do and to plan what's going to be my second mountain. And it's still going to work, but it has to have a level of give, of return that is different than the first half of my life. That's what has been on my mind. My kids are getting older. Of course, I do want to enjoy life. I do want to, now the world is so small for me. I feel comfortable going to any place in the world. That's the thing when you move to Asia. I mean, I'm like, I can go anywhere right now. But this second mountain is something that has been on my mind a lot.

41:15Rachel Lim: And my final question is, if you could have a billboard down the streets of New York, your favorite city, or even Tokyo, what would your billboard say and why? My billboard, what I would love it to say is that everywhere I spend my time on, everywhere I go, I left behind a better place or a better person. So that's what's at the end. When I look back to what I did in my life, what gives me joy is when I see someone that I think it's better because of me or some organization that I think when I left, they were in a better place. Right. And better place, not just because of the financial metrics, but in a better place overall.

42:09And people, you know, learn, people are growing, people got developed. And yeah, that's what I, I mean, I go back to the book, but I think that book had such an impact on my life. That's, you know, that's what I believe it would be. I'd love to see it.

42:25Rachel Lim: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Rodrigo. This has been an incredibly enriching conversation. And, you know, thank you for what you do. Thank you for choosing Asia, you know, as a place where you also want to make an impact to the lives around you and the organization as well. So we hope to be able to see you soon and hear more about the amazing developments that you're going to do through Microsoft. So thank you so much, Rodrigo. Thank you so much.