#53: Diane von Furstenberg: How She Became the Woman She Wanted to Be

0:00Rachel Lim: Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the Who We Are podcast. This episode is one of the most memorable I've ever had. The woman sitting across from me in this interview is none other than Diane von Furstenberg. Diane was born in Brussels. She's a daughter to a Holocaust survivor and her mom smiled as she was taken to the concentration camp, Auschwitz, as she scratched the words, I am leaving with a smile on a piece of cardboard. She dropped it on the ground and was one of the few who survived. And when she came home, against all odds, she had a daughter. And she told her daughter one thing, have a big life.

0:44Rachel Lim: That daughter became a princess at 22, created the most iconic dress in a history of fashion, built an empire, lost it and rebuilt it from nothing. Diane also survived cancer and has spent more than 50 years dedicating her life to making women feel that they are enough exactly as they are. Diane von Fristenberg is 79 years old and she is in every sense completely and unapologetically herself, on her own terms, in her own time. This conversation was one of my greatest teachers. After this episode, I'll come back and share exactly what I took from this. You know, Diane, we're going to dive right into your journey and your stories and your lessons.

1:28Rachel Lim: And I was also sharing with all of them earlier about your incredible mother and how she has been such an essential part of your journey. You know, when she left on the train on board to the concentration camp, she wrote that she left with a scowl. And you said that that has shaped you completely. How has the influence of your mom shaped you? You know, what really defines who the woman I became is the moment I was born. My mother was 21 years old when she got, she was a prisoner of war, and she was a prisoner for 13 months. She went to Auschwitz, she worked in a bullet factory, she did the death march, She went to another camp and another camp, 21 years old.

2:25But she survived. When she survived and she went back to Belgium, she was 29 kilos. You talk about kilos here in Singapore? Okay, 29 kilos is like a nine-year-old child. But she survived. Her mother cannot believe that she was back. She fed her life a little bird, little by little, every 10 minutes. So she gained her weight. And six months later, her fiancé came back from Switzerland. She was normal. And they got married. And they got married, and the doctor said, you can be married, but you cannot have a child for at least two and a half years or three years because you will die and your child will not be normal.

3:16So that was November. the following December I was born and it turns out that I was not normally and so my mother used to tell me God saved me so that I can give you life by giving you life you gave me my life back you are my torch of freedom so I was born with a torch of freedom in my hands which can seem a little heavy for a little girl but I liked it. It gave me my independence. My mother wanted me to be independent from day one. She told me fear is not an option. She would never allow me to be afraid. If I was afraid of the dart, she would lock me in the closet. Today she could go to jail for that.

4:12Although Chinese tiger mom... But as a result, she, you know, I had no fear. The other thing she taught me, no matter what, never be a victim. So those were the two things I was brought up with. But the thing about my birth is that I had won the day I was born. So anything that happened after that was a plus. and the one thing that probably defines the person that who I am is to honor life every day and to be grateful for life so I grew up in Belgium very nicely with a father and a mother I hated Belgium it was always raining and but she pushed me she sent me to boarding school and I you know I went on my life I love being in boarding school because I was starting my own life Then I went to England.

5:13Then I went to Switzerland. I then met a young prince. And he was my boyfriend. And he went to America. I went to Paris. Then I went to Italy. And the one thing I knew is I knew, I did not know what I wanted to do, but I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be. I wanted to be a woman in charge. And I became that woman. And I became a woman in charge because of a little dress. And because it was a little dress that I gained that confidence, millions of women could buy that dress and get that confidence. So my mother, who had said that I was a torch of freedom, that dress became the flag of freedom.

6:12The symbol of freedom.

6:14Rachel Lim: At which point did you realise that, because initially when you started your label, you had said that it was a search for an extension of yourself. Was there a point where you realised that this was so much larger than yourself? What I forgot to tell you, that at the beginning, when I started working on my dress, I also went to visit Egon in America. And I discovered America. Yeah. And it was incredible. New York was dirty. It was dangerous, but it felt free. And there were lots of artists living there, so I wanted to be part of New York. So when I flew back to go to Europe, I said, oh, my God, how can I get back to New York?

7:02Yeah. So that's when I started to make the samples because I went back to that factory. You know, when you begin life, you don't know which is going to be your door. And that door of that printing mill in Como was certainly not the most glamorous door. But it turned out to be my door. When I went back, I said, oh, I understand why I'm here. I'm going to make samples. and then with the samples, I would send them in America. In the meantime, Egon comes back, we meet, he goes to Asia. I find myself pregnant, so I have to get married. So before I know, I am married in America with samples, baby in my stomach, samples in my suitcase, and I begin life.

7:59I had two children in one year. Wow. one in January, the next one in February

8:06Rachel Lim: oh my god, I am definitely an overachiever I, at the same time I would go to the factory, I would work on samples I mean, the whole thing became so active and at age 27 27, 28 I was making 25 ,000 dresses a week I was very successful I separated I was very much a woman in charge and I had two children you know life went very very fast very fast but then you know sometimes when you're very high on success everybody thinks you're at the top maybe you know you're not totally at the top and also sometimes when people think you're not at the top maybe you are more than they think so i think the adventure of your own life is a personal adventure and what is most important is that very early on you have a very good relationship with you because your relationship with you is the most important relationship why because once you have that any other relationship become a plus and not a must and I never wanted to be Lily.

9:37Rachel Lim: And you know in 1979 by the time it was 1979 your business was also at its peak you know hundreds of millions of dollars and soon after it fell through. Well you know when you make one same dress.

9:59Millions of them. You know, obviously at some point, everyone, everybody has one, two, five, ten. How many more can you buy? You know, so you kind of saturate the market. Then I licensed my dress business, and I said, because I had started a fragrance called Tatiana, and it was going very well. So I said, okay, now I'm going to become Estee Lauder. And so I licensed my dress business and I built a cosmetic business. And within five years, I built it into a huge business, which I sold. But of course, then you sell it for a huge amount of money and you think it's great, but then the company that sells it ends up, you know.

10:51So it's never really quite ongoing. I mean, you have adventures up and down and left and right, just like in anything.

11:02Rachel Lim: I think what's most admirable, Diane, is that even through the ups and downs, which a lot of people, perhaps who were, if they were in your shoes, would have long given up. But you picked yourself up and you rebuilt everything almost from nothing. I mean, it's a little pathetic too. I mean, you know, sometimes you just say, why? but you you do the best you can and it's it's not really ego I don't know it's different times than I oh my god I've done so many different things I could sit here for two days and tell you all the things I did but it's been interesting and recently I took the company back because I didn't like the products that they were making and I have to especially at the time of you you make your legacy, you want to leave behind the things that reflect what you want to do.

11:56So that's where I am.

11:59Rachel Lim: How can women, those of us listening to you today, how do you think we can stay whole while also pursuing love, ambition, and motherhood without losing ourselves? Well, the one thing you cannot lose is yourself, period. Because if you lose yourself, you're No good to your children, to your business, to the men in your life. You were no good to anyone. What I have discovered in the late stage of my life is the power of kindness. And I discovered that kindness is a currency, just like money. And it compounds, just like money. And generosity is the best investment. And I know it sounds stupid to say that, and I used to think when I was a young girl that if somebody said you were kind, that was almost like saying you're stupid.

12:57But it's not true. It's not true at all. So I believe in kindness. I believe in light. And I believe in the power and the strength of women. You know, I always think that women, what defines a woman is solution and seduction right we know that women always have the solution even in the most remote tribal circumstances most submissive woman when there's a fire in the house the women take over they take the children, the jewelry sometimes they take the jewelry before the children laughter and they carry on. So we know women have the solution. And seduction is not about showing your legs. Seduction is about making your solution happen, making others believe it's their idea.

14:00I think Asian women know how to do that.

14:02Rachel Lim: And you know, Diane, also, before I open the floor to some questions, one of the things that I really love about you is how you are embracing growing older and wiser? First of all, this thing with aging, especially in America, I mean, women are crazy about afraid to age. And I don't understand because aging means living. So the more you have lived, the more you age. So age is a sign of having lived, right? So I can't pretend I'm a week younger than I am because last week I read one good book, I learned things, I experienced things. So I don't want to be younger. And so I think there's a little trick.

14:46Instead of saying, how old are you? Ask yourself, how long have I lived? And then all of a sudden you're proud.

14:56Rachel Lim: And what do you know now at 79 that perhaps you couldn't have known when you were 49? So I want to share something. I shared it with you at lunch. I'm born on New Year's Eve. So every New Year's is a new year, a new diary, a new white page. And I usually pick three words for the year. And I will share with you the words that I picked this year because so far they've really worked quite well. First one is wisdom. Sagesse. It's in French. I write it in French. Wisdom. Then I wrote imagination, which is ideas, dreams, wishes, imagination. And then I wrote a word that I never used before, magic. Because you have to believe in magic.

15:48And in order to believe in magic, you have to make space for the magic. you have to have time to see the little detail that is happening and so I wish you all to take the time for magic to happen and for you to see that magic happen you know you have had such a rich and colorful life

16:14Rachel Lim: filled with so many lessons and experiences if you could share an advice with all of us listening to you today what would your advice be?

16:27My advice would be be true to yourself do not lie and enjoy being you no matter what embrace your imperfect if you embrace your imperfection they become your assets if you embrace your vulnerability you turn it into strength you have so much power on yourself, even if you are totally powerless for the rest of the world. And my mother proved that. You know, I mean, she survived. She wanted to survive. She survived. So we go back to square one.

17:07Rachel Lim: But I want to open the floor to some questions that you might have. Hi, Sophie. Hi, thank you so much, Rachel, for bringing us all together. And Diane, I've been a fan for a very long time. I wanted to thank you for the confidence you gave me in my twin days so I'm really grateful for that and I'm really intrigued by the evolution of how you look at kindness how you said at one felt that one point in your life you felt that it was stupid and now you're embracing it as something that's really important could you tell us a little bit more about that evolution how you you made that journey from not appreciating it as much as you do now?

17:46I play a game. I mean, every morning, I make sure I do one miracle. Every morning. And the truth, I make more than one. Okay. How I do that? By introducing someone to someone who can change their lives or improves their lives that they wouldn't know without me. Okay? I don't have to include anything. I don't have to speak. leave a message. All I have to do is write a thoughtful, intelligent, evocative email to one person. And that kind of, first you do it like that, then it becomes a game, then it becomes a muscle. Then I find myself sometimes, I meet someone who I barely know, and they tell me something and I think to myself, I should introduce them to whoever.

18:46I have no interest. I barely know this person. Right? But then all of a sudden you realize you have a magic wand. You know, when I was a little girl, I think I was a little bully. I wasn't particularly I mean, kind. So it didn't, you know, I... But I discovered the power of kindness and the pleasure of kindness. And so that's what it is. And that's why I love words so much, you know. I think you're getting this little book. Yes. This little book is something I wrote during COVID. And it was supposed to be a book about being in charge. But then I realized that to be in charge is owning it, right?

19:35It's a commitment to owning who you are. And then I started writing it, and then it felt condescending. And so I decided to use words. So this book is like a little dictionary, and every word brings you, it's either a definition or an anecdote that brings you back to owning it. And so all that to say the power of words. Words have power. And we use words without thinking. So all these little things, words, kindness, all of this, they make the body of your own power. And when you discover that, it's very nice. And it's also very good for your karma and for the karma of your children. So I'm a great, great believer in kindness.

20:31kindness as a currency.

20:33Rachel Lim: Thank you, Diane. And one last question, Diane, what do you love most about being 79 at this stage of life where you're at now? I can't believe I made it this far. Because I had everything very young, I didn't think I was ever going to turn 30. So I remember I had small children. I was 29. They were 5 and 6. And I used to say, you know, you must be independent because I don't know what can happen to me. And they used to look at me and I said, no, no, I don't intend to go, but I could go. So I repeat my age every day to anyone who meets me because I can't believe it. And having said that, I hope I will have a long winter.

21:22and I have now decided, I've picked a beautiful stage for the winter of my life and that is Venice. You see, the difference with Venice and any other city is there are no cars and therefore people live the same way as they've always lived before. And when I get concerned and worried about the status of the world, I look at my ceilings and my ceiling has been there for 600 years and I thought, okay, it's fine

22:00Rachel Lim: Well, thank you so much, Diane for spending your afternoon with us and sharing your stories and your journeys Thank you to Diane Dantas-Singham

22:20Thank you.