How Do I Ensure I Get Promoted?

0:07I'm executive coach Muriel Wilkins and this is Coaching Real Leaders. I've spent over 20 years working with highly successful leaders who've hit a bump in the road. My job is to help them get over that bump so they can lead with a little more ease. I typically work with clients over the course of several months, But on this show, we have a one-time coaching meeting focusing on a specific leadership challenge they're facing. Before we jump in, I am so excited to share that we are a finalist for the Signal Award in the advice and how-to podcast category. I'd be so grateful if you can head to vote.signalaward.com today to show your support and vote for coaching real leaders.

0:53We'll include a link in the show notes as well. Now on to the show. Today I'm coaching someone we'll call Amy to protect her confidentiality. She's someone who throughout her career has worked hard and stayed engaged with what she's doing, always looking to learn more. I always am not necessarily looking for the bigger, better thing, but to gain my knowledge. I think it's important for myself to continue to grow and learn and understand that things should be difficult. And putting yourself in those uncomfortable positions to be able to have a different outlook and a different perspective that you get to bring to the table.

1:36There is so much to learn that I never get bored either, which I absolutely love. There's all these puzzles that you get to figure out. Amy is now a manager and credits her career trajectory in part to an early mentor who really helped her grow. She's taken on new challenges as they've come, but then hit some unexpected twists and turns. After a recent reword, she got placed in her current position. I didn't have a choice. I wanted to move up. I thought that's what would be the projection. and I have voiced that to the director that I was working under. So when the reorg happened, it was kind of shocking and surprising to me.

2:21I had no idea that I was moving to a different group. They had lost the manager and I had stepped in, not knowing anything about this department. Now she's been scrambling to adjust to yet another new role, but feels as though she's missing the right kind of mentorship and support to truly accelerate her career and continue moving up more layers of management. That's where we'll start. I don't feel like I'm having that much support. And what do I need to do to move ahead and have that capability of being able to understand the business? There's no mentoring per se. Like there's no feedback, even though I'm asking for it.

3:06and this is kind of where I land today and not only how do I run this team with some of these people that weren't aware that I was going to be the new manager of the department nor me knowing that I was going to be the manager and then the communication from my old director to my new director my old director knew I wanted to get promoted and I have high aspirations for myself in my career and then this director I'm trying to voice that Although there is no, I guess, like feedback or what to do to try to move forward with it. I feel like I'm trying to put out fires every five minutes of my day documenting all of these items.

3:51And I mean, it's giving me great face time with the VP and the MD in this department because I never really got it. so I'm able to show them like this is how I'm trying to escalate items this is what's escalated this doesn't need to be escalated like all those items that I see so that's been helpful but like as far as me trying to get that feedback on what can I do better or what do you see that may need to be more seasoned that's what I was looking for but then now I have an individual that essentially thought they were going to get promoted. So when I got placed in that team, that individual and I were just head to head all the time.

4:39They wanted to be involved in decisions and be involved in making plans. And when I would tell an individual on my team, entry level, that these are priorities, this individual come in and say, no, these ones are priority. So it felt like there's a level of respect that is being blurred. And the individual and I are kind of not on the same page in regards to priorities. And you're her supervisor. Correct. Okay. So let me make sure I have the full story here. The role that you're in now was unexpected, meaning it wasn't one that you went after. It's the result of a reorg, it was a lateral move rather than a next level move, even though what you had desired is a next level move.

5:35And then with that shift, a couple of things happened. One is you move to a new supervisor, somebody new who's supervising you, and your new manager does not provide the same level of mentoring and coaching and career support than your previous one did. And then at the same time, it sounds like you're a bit under-resourced. So it feels like not only are you learning a new area that you didn't have experience in, but because it's under-resourced, you feel like you're constantly drinking, what do they say? Water out of - From the fire hose. Drinking from the fire hose. Exactly. Yes. Getting all my little metaphors mixed up.

6:15And then in addition to that, you have a team member. It just keeps getting better and better. You have a team member who wanted the role that you're in, but didn't get it. Yep. But you nailed it all. And they're acting like, I'm still going to play that role, even though I didn't get it. Okay. Yes. So we've got a number of different variables going on. And so where does that leave you? What are you sitting with today? How are you feeling? I feel stuck. You feel stuck. Okay. Stuck from what? Like if you were unstuck, where would you be that you're not at today? Because you're stuck. I wouldn't say it's necessarily where it would be.

7:00I think it's necessarily like the mentor and to try to be better in regards to what I'm doing today. And yes, would I like to get promoted? A hundred percent. But then I also know that nobody's perfect. And they're still suggestions of perspectives that I can look out of. But for me, it's more of having that mentor to be able to direct me in that place that I need to go. Because I don't want to just keep going down this wrong path. And then I am either heard saying, yeah, you want to get it promoted. I understand that. But nobody is giving me the feedback on why I can't get to that next level.

7:40Okay. So I have a couple of questions for you. just based on what you're sharing. And I just want to ensure that I am interpreting your words as you mean them. So when you say, I don't want to go down the wrong path, what is it that is telling you that you are going down the wrong path? And I'm focusing in on the word wrong. What is it that makes this feel wrong? I guess it's more so people have face value of what they're trying to tell you. They know that I want to be promoted. They understand that I'm asking for the feedback, the criticism. And what I'm getting from them is you're doing great and you're doing great and you'll get promoted.

8:28But I don't see that action being completed on their end. What would tell you that that action is being completed? Support. Whether it's supporting the team, seeing that I'm down resources and I need that help, or that I'm having someone from an upper level manager assisting with, these are some of the things that would be better, or we can reach out to another team to assist you on that resource, or, you know, work with another manager and maybe offloading some of that work. Okay. So on the one hand, you're hearing you're doing great. You're on the path to promotion. Yep. And yet you're like, but the actions are not from your perspective.

9:19The actions don't support that message because from Amy's perspective, if I'm going to tell somebody you're doing great, you're the future, you're on the path to promotion, then I'm going to try to support them in terms of getting the resources that they need on their team. I'm going to actively coach them and mentor them and provide them guidance on how they're going to do the work. Yes. And where did you come up with the conclusion that in order for somebody to say, yes, you're on the path to promotion, it should be followed up with those exact actions? Where did that recipe come from? so there was a senior manager role i applied for it and i was told you were the top candidate we want to promote you we want to give you this spot i find out that the spot was given to somebody else so it was very eye-opening to me that even though a voice that i want to be promoted and I'm getting the feedback that I'm doing great, now I'm with that false hope that I would essentially be promoted or got the position.

10:40But it's showing me that, okay, I'm on the right track. I'm doing what I need to do to get here. And then it's, I don't know, the rug is pulled out from under you. And so I guess I have this sour taste in my mouth of like, why weren't you just honest with me? That's perfectly fine. I understand that you couldn't be, but you could have still followed up with an apology or that here's some feedback for you or anything like that because I did turn around and ask. Okay. So I'm feeling your kind of reaction to what happened, you know, then. Yeah. And I'm also hearing a lot around what they could have done differently.

11:25Yes. What is the conversation that you have with yourself around all of that? Because I'm hearing what you wish they could have done. What is your control in this situation? So inside of me, I'm thinking, okay, they're taking those suggestions that I have and they're actioning them. But then another part of me is like, why won't everybody just tell me what I need to work on if I'm not there I have read books I have talked to like other people that are in VP positions or other higher leadership you know executive positions for all sorts of companies whether they're in my internal circle or exterior circle so it's like all of the feedback I'm getting are great.

12:22Like not saying that it isn't. There are some things that I definitely, you know, see their point of view where I need to work on. And I understand that. But then another part of me is like, what am I doing within the company that is not having me progress forward? Okay. So what you're hoping for is somebody gives you, hey, here are the two or three things you need to work on. And if you worked on this, you'll get promoted. Yeah, essentially. Okay. How'd that work out for you last time. That's great. I mean, Amy, here's the thing. Like, I'm not trying to belittle your desire to get feedback. We all deserve feedback.

13:03You know, it's equal opportunity and we don't all get it. And I don't know the people that you're working with. Right. What you are getting, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are getting is you are getting the you're doing great. Yes. What you're not getting is the promotion that you're assuming you'll get if somebody does great. Yes. Yes. Okay. And this is why I asked, how did that work out before? Because just because you do great, I hate to say it, but like just because you do great does not mean it's a guarantee of promotion. Yes. That's what I'm realizing. Exactly those words. And so it's like, okay, what do I need to do?

13:48Because ultimately, I don't want to be a shark and burn bridges. You need these partnerships with other people. And I see how valuable that is. So should I come to my career and say, this is where it's going to land and I'm going to be this knowledgeable person in projects, in departments, in a specific area? Which, okay, that's fine. Although I guess It's like the reassurance that I need that I don't have to put in 120 % on 24-7 because this industry works 24-7 all day, all night. So if I am working this hard, what am I working this hard for? That's a great question. What are you working this hard for?

14:35I'm working this hard for a promotion, although it's like, I guess, do I need to come to realization that it's just not going to happen and I just need to be OK with that? And that's where I'm like seesawing between the two. And in a way, I think you are laying out, you know, the two extremes, which is I want a guarantee of a promotion because if I can be guaranteed that I'm going to get the promotion, then I'm going to put in the effort in these two or three things that will get me there. Or I want the guarantee that I'm not going to be promoted. And if I have a guarantee that I'm not going to be promoted, then I'm going to go home at five o 'clock or whatever, whatever it is.

15:24Right. Yeah. And I wonder for you, how would you manage your career? What choices would you make if there was no guarantee of either? I don't know. I feel like I'd be stuck in this like twilight zone of just keep going on replay of what is happening. Because if I get promoted, I guess also it's not just to sit there and say, I got it. Or maybe I would continue trying to climb that ladder. This is what I kind of sit with my thoughts about because I am the mother. So if I keep climbing this ladder, something has to give, right? Because I'm spending so much time at work. And it's like, I guess if I'm not going to get that guaranteed promotion, then I would want to spend more time at home or things that I love.

16:17And I don't want to call in at seven, eight o 'clock, midnight, two in the morning for these calls and then get up in the morning and just be extremely tired and running off fumes to go about my day, you know, for the next day. And that's like a continuous process. So it's like, if I'm going to get promoted and I'm going to do it, I know the con. I know that I'm going to spend more time at work, the pro that I see is I'm chasing that career that I've wanted for a very long time. So it's like this catch-22 that I'm in. And I don't know how to get out of it. I mean, the only way to get out of it is to take yourself out of it.

17:02But taking yourself out of it is not by getting a guarantee from other people. Because there is no guarantee. You've already experienced that there's no guarantee. You didn't know you were going to get moved into the role that you're in now. And there it is. Nobody guaranteed that. And there you landed there. You know, nobody guaranteed that you were going to move from one industry to the other and keep getting, you know, more and more responsibility. And therefore, there you are. Nobody guaranteed that you were going to end up with the manager who was great at giving you feedback. It happened, Right.

17:35Like there's part that is in your control, which is what you do and the steps that you take. But what outcome it leads to is not guaranteed. We'll be right back after this.

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21:48As we dive deeper into this coaching conversation, I'm getting the sense that Amy's frustration might have less to do with whether or not she gets promoted and more to do with her desire for certainty. She's looking for a formula. If I work hard, get the right feedback, take on more responsibility, then I'll know I'm on the path to promotion. But careers don't really work that way. We can make choices that increase the likelihood of that outcome. We can ask for feedback, build relationships, develop skills, and make ourselves visible. But we can't control whether an opportunity opens up, whether someone else gets chosen, or whether an organization changes direction.

22:29and that uncertainty can be really uncomfortable for leaders at any level of their career. With that context, it might be helpful to reframe the conversation from, what do I need to get promoted, and instead look at the bigger picture and more proactively at what is within Amy's own control to decide and build the kind of career she wants, even when there are no guarantees.

22:58my question to you or the part that needs some exploring is what does it look like for you to manage your career without the promise i.e the guarantee that it's going to end up one way or the other right kind of like i feel like what you're asking me is hey before i'm a character in the story, I need to know if there's going to be a happily ever after. Pretty much. Or if it's just going to be like ho-hum, right? And depending on which one it is will dictate how I move through this story. Yes. And I think what I'm asking you is maybe we ought to spend some time talking about how you want to move through the story regardless of how it ends.

23:52Mm-hmm. Because nobody is able to tell you how it ends so far. And I'm so sorry. I hope this wasn't a waste of your time, but I can't tell you how it's going to end. Yeah. And I think that's where I sit with it in regards to the subject matter expert in this department. I feel as it's a roadblock. That is a roadblock to what? To you getting promoted? She's a roadblock to you getting promoted? I feel like yes. And I'm not able to learn because she is that roadblock where the emails that are sent out, she just handles and I have no idea. OK, so the roadblock, just to clarify, OK, because I think it's very important to understand what it is that you're trying to accomplish, because on the one hand, I think you have your eyes set on promotion and it is so glaring.

24:49And even if this person wasn't there, it's still not guaranteed. Yeah. Okay. So we got to be careful of creating causality. Right. Okay. The other side of it is you said, well, when I said, well, what is the roadblock? And you said, I'm not learning. So there's a goal that I'm hearing from you around in this role, you want to increase your knowledge so that you could effectively manage the team. So you want to increase what you know and what you learn. Yeah, definitely. And you consider this individual to be a roadblock from that. Okay. Or that's getting in the way of that. So let me ask you a question.

25:33When you're out there in the streets driving and you face a roadblock, what are your choices? To move. to move what? To move to the next lane, to speed up and move in front of them. I don't know. No, no, don't. Let's not say you don't know. Let's lay out the options, right? What are the options? You're driving and there's a roadblock that comes up. Okay. And they're a single roadblock. So it's a cone. There's something there. What are your choices? one of them you said is you move around it okay is that what you said yeah redirect redirect the other what are your other choices to plow through it plow through it you run right over the roadblock remind me amy to not get in a car with you okay most people say that but it's okay you can plow through it okay what else you can stop you can stop and do what be stuck and be mad okay this is very interesting because i could wait you know part of it is you could stop and wait for somebody to move the roadblock you could this is all coming up for me because we used to have a bunch of construction right outside our house and there was like roadblocks all the time.

26:56I'm going to give you another option. You can stop and you can ask the people to move the roadblock, right? It's like a cone or something. You could get out of your car and remove it yourself, although you could get in trouble if you do that. The point is there are a number of options that you have, but it's interesting to me that you said the notion of waiting for the roadblock to move is equivalent to being stuck. Yeah. Why is that? Because you're waiting for something else to happen, even though you're in control of it. And kind of like to this point, like I'm in control of it and I can make that choice.

27:41so it's learning how can i use her not use her but be effective the both of us and how do we marry that together to see that succession for the team because i do i see it it's just i guess the vision of it like how do we both see our visions and how are they so separate like how do we come together i appreciate that and i want to bring it back to the theme because there's a theme here in both you dealing with this individual that translates into this, why am I not getting promoted when I'm doing all these things, which is what are the things that you can control and what are the things that you can't?

28:27And you feeling like when I am just waiting for somebody else to do something, it feels like I'm stuck. Yes. Versus seeing waiting. I'm not suggesting that that's what you do. I'm just saying it's an option waiting for the roadblock to move. When it is a choice, it's still a choice that's within your control. So I want to reframe the conversation a little bit and ask you, given your experience of observing other leaders, given your experience that you have had increased responsibility, I want you to tap into you being your own mentor. If you were mentoring yourself, somebody else who is in the same predicament as you, what would you recommend that they do that is in their control?

29:25What is within their control that they can do that would help them feel less stuck than the way they might be feeling today. One word comes to me is to be patient because I'm not a very patient person, but also releasing that control, trusting in others that they will get the job done. But I need to trust that fact that that person will come back to me and give me a high-level recap. Okay, so again, you're mentoring yourself. What do you need to do in order to ensure, or not even ensure, we're getting rid of guarantees here, but increases the probability that you get that recap? I guess building those relationships and meeting with the people, having them be the owner or responsibility of a product and not feeling like I have to be the one-stop shop, that I'm stuck with that knowledge, I guess, or that feeling stuck that I need to rely on others that they can get the job done and that I need to be trusting in that.

30:37Okay. So I hear you around, you need to be trusting. And on the one hand, yes. And And you're also saying, but I also need to see some action to support it. And so what's the conversation or what's the request that you need to make in order to have that followed up with action? What is it that you want them to do? What would they need to do or what would you need to do to gain the knowledge? I guess more having follow ups with that person. for myself if I was meeting with a director another peer another manager and we had things to discuss I guess it would be the frequency and then just give me a high level what we're going to go through and this is where we are what do I need to action like where do you need a leader to step in and where do you not need a leader to step in is what I would tell myself that's what you would tell yourself okay i'm hearing a lot of expectation in order to get what you need what i'm not so clear on and you tell me if i'm off here what i'm not so clear on is how much are you making those expectations explicit probably none i mean oh so tell me more amy what do you you're just expecting them to know yes just read my mind oh and then you'll live happily ever after of course i guess my expectation is that and i i definitely need to learn this in my career is that not everybody's going to be vocal like i am not everybody is going to have this aspiration to be XYZ.

32:26They're just not. And I need to learn that. I always tell my employees, your 100 % is somebody else's 25 % or the other way around. Like your 25 % is their 100%. Not everybody is going to work at your capacity and we need to understand that. And I guess I should follow up the same advice of not everybody's going to read my mind. I just expect this, especially when it's not around tasks or procedures that have deadlines. It's more like around kind of this topic, you know, having the one-on-ones and wanting a high level. I expect them to come into these one-on-ones with what they're working on, with how they're getting it done, but that has never been said to them.

33:19Okay. So if what you're trying to do is increase the probability that folks on your team will not keep you stuck, right, will not be roadblocks. We can go back to the example of an on the road. you can either wait for them to figure it out on their own and not say anything not even mention that the roadblock is a roadblock they don't think they are they think they're just nice decoration right you can move around them so they continue to be a roadblock or you can explicitly verbalize set the expectation and oh by the way because you're their manager hold them accountable to acting, behaving in a way that turns them from a roadblock to something that is more supportive or conducive or productive for the way you want the team to operate.

34:27And that's your choice. But we can already see how each of those options will lead down a different path. Yes. Again, no guarantee that they will be able to do what it is that you're requesting, but at the very least, then you know and you can go back to what you said you want from your leaders, which is to provide feedback and coaching and supporting and mentoring. Tell me how that lands with you. It makes sense. It makes sense. Not everybody can read my mind. And I think it's like that perspective of it. You know, I not only in my career, like I expect this outside of my career also, that it's just I have high expectations for myself and I expect others to.

35:25and I guess that's where it marries together you know it's like I expect this for myself and I expect them to do it and I'll do whatever it is to move around them like that roadblock I'll go through it if I have to I will get out of my car and I will move the cone even though I'm not supposed to I will do it I will drive the opposite way I don't care I'll go through it and I guess it's more of the, to your point, to have those conversations with the team and just to be like, these are things that I expect as a leader. And that when we come to these one-on-ones, I trust in you, but I also need to know when is the time that I need to step in so that the ball's not dropped on our end and we're not responsible for it.

36:15because I can't control everything else, just like as you said. And so maybe that's more of the perspective I need to look at, is not how to drive around the cone, is not how to, you know, oh, here's a cone, go the wrong way. It's how can I have that work with me? And having that other person move the cone, waiting there until the work is done, I think that needs to be my expectation, Or that needs to be more of my outlook of others. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, in a way, what you're articulating there, Amy, so well is like, how do I meet them where they are? Yeah. And try to move them from there, rather than either go around them or pick them up and put them someplace and they don't even know that, you know, what's happening, or just wait for them to figure it out, you know, and oh, by the way, then get frustrated because they're not doing what you want them to do.

37:22Yeah. And that's a lot of it. And maybe this is just some of the stuff that I feel stuck in, in the group at least, is that I've had such efficient teams, skill set wise, knowledge wise, that this brings a whole nother level to me in my managing and just in my knowledge of the development. I want the team to be successful and I want them to feel proud of that. Some people are fine coming and doing their job, work their eight-hour shift and leave. But my expectation internally is you need to do more. And I shouldn't force that, I guess, is what that makes me sound of I'm doing. Look, I think that just because you operate a certain way doesn't mean that everybody else is going to operate in that way, which is what you're saying.

38:15What I would ask you to sit with the question is, is given what the objectives, the goals of the business are, given where your team fits into those goals, where does this team need to be in order to meet those goals, those conditions of success. Because then you take it out of it being because of your preference. And it's more about performance, right? Performance relative to goal. Does that make sense? Yeah, because I never really thought of it as a team that you're looking at their performance. The group that I manage at the moment is very task oriented. So I can put KPIs around the group if I wanted to.

39:06And showing that performance rather than going to management or going to anybody who asks about the team and me just saying that nobody does in the expectation I want them to do. And it should have been like two days ago. It's valid. Yeah. And also the data might surprise you. The data might be like, oh, actually, we're doing well enough. We might not be in the top tier, but we're operating, you know, well enough to be able to meet the standards that are expected. At least you can have a little bit more of a less subjective management of performance and not it being reflective of just like, oh, because I think we should always be doing more.

39:53We should be doing more? I don't know. No, it makes sense because I feel like I was trained or taught from mentors to be promoted that it's driven off those figures and how your people are working. And so I think I've always associated that instead of just looking at the true performance of what the team could do, whether I have some bad apples or I have some really great apples. In the end, we're all a team and we're all trying to work towards that performance. We'll be right back after this.

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43:34At this point, I'm noticing some connective tissue between a few layers of Amy's concerns. that Amy is looking outward in a lot of different directions for the thing that's going to help her feel unstuck. She's looking up toward the leaders above her for the mentoring, feedback, and support she believes she needs to move forward. Sideways to someone she thinks is infringing on her territory. And down at a team that doesn't always operate with the same expectations she has for herself. And there's an important belief underneath that last piece. the belief of if I can do it so can you. Now that belief comes from a strength.

44:12Amy has high standards and knows how to get things done but what works as a personal operating principle can become a leadership blind spot. Just because Amy can figure something out and push herself to get there doesn't mean everyone else will or should work the same way. So instead of asking why can't they do this the way I would, the more useful question might be, what do I need from them? What do they need from me? And how do I want to lead them? Leadership isn't about getting everyone to operate the way you would. It's about figuring out how to get the best from people who may have very different strengths and ways of working.

44:52The more Amy can focus on what's actually within her control, the less dependent she is on everyone else behaving exactly the way she hopes they will.

45:07In what way does this translate to, because we were dealing with two things. One is managing your team and the roadblocks on your team. The other, which is what we started with, which is the, I'm not being told what I need to do to get promoted. And that's the roadblock there. So how do you operate now? Now, what are your choices, given that the feedback you're getting is you're doing great. That's what we know. And what you're not getting today is a guarantee of promotion tomorrow. So what is in your control within that realm? What are your choices? I mean, I can just think of two extremes as to stay or as just to leave.

45:56and if you stay how do you want to stay i envision staying but it's with a team that i guess i'm happy with and when i mean happy it's not necessarily driving the results but having a camaraderie with the team it's not it doesn't feel like work you know it's like you're there, yeah, you are driving those, you know, performances and you're driving to close these items and all of that. But at the end of the day, you're leaving with less stress because you know this team is taking care of it and you're all achieving that goal together. And how much of That is in your control. Some of it, but it also depends on them, you know, and I need to understand that they have different expectations.

46:52They have different responsibilities and they also have families, you know, and I try, I guess it's like really considering that. Like I say it, but I don't really think it through, like from my perspective. Mm-hmm. And so you're saying you feeling okay about where you are is contingent on how the team is? Yes. Okay. And how about relative to what if over the next couple of months you don't hear anything about a promotion, yes or no? what is within your options of what you can do with that even within the in between the range of stay and do nothing leave i think it's just getting more knowledge working with other teams on what projects they're working on and how we're all twined together and so you can't just pull a string out and leave it over here without the whole ball coming apart.

47:55It is going to. And so understanding how all of those teams kind of come together, I think would be interesting for me to put it all like, oh, this team does, you know, steps one through three, but I do steps seven through 10 and what's all in the middle? I have no idea. And so I think like that would be what would make me stay is that curiosity. So meaning as long as I'm on a learning path and I'm still growing, even if it's without the promotion, basically I am developing. Yeah. Because developing doesn't always mean promotion. Developing means you're learning. As long as I am developing, I'm okay.

48:40And here are things that I can do that support my development. I can go learn about these other departments. I can work with a team that's unlike other teams that I've worked with before. I can, you know, do these KPIs. All of these are things that will continue to develop me regardless of the promotion or not. Yes, definitely. And in the way that you said, I have not up until now made my expectations explicit with my team, right? I just expect them to know. Are there conversations that you feel you need to have relative to your development in your career aspirations with leadership in your organization that you haven't yet had?

49:24I guess. Well, not that I guess. I can see why or see a reason to have those conversations in regards to, you know, how not so much around the performance, but more around like the leading the team, leading the people. And what are those expectations that they're also looking for? Okay. And what would that get you? It would just give me more of that outlook and that perspective of, okay, not everybody is driven with just performance. They want the right people in the right places, whether they have all the knowledge in the world or that they can successfully manage a team. Because in reality, if you have a good team, the leader is just leading versus, you know, everybody following and they're all on different paths.

50:17And so I think that's more where I need to come together. Okay, so sort of understanding what the expectations are of you as a team leader and understanding that based on your track record so far, you might not get those expectations laid out very clearly. All right, just because the expectations are not laid out very clearly doesn't mean that you don't do anything. What it says is, well, then you better come up with your own expectations. Yeah. And I think that's what's happening right now. Yes. You know, just because you're not getting the guidance, just because you're not getting the feedback doesn't mean that you don't do anything or you or you stay stuck.

51:03You then say, OK, well, let me try to figure out which is what you're doing. What are the two or three things I can do? And we'll see if it continues to move me or not. Right. Definitely. But none of this points to, to bring it back full circle to where we started, none of this points to a guarantee of promotion. And so what does that leave you with? I have to either be okay with where I am and develop in a different way, or my other choice would be to leave and be okay with that. So it's either one of those two. And I think that will have to be some soul searching within myself. And I'm the only one that could answer that, as you said.

51:53You're the only one who can answer that. And part of it is, you know, to kind of go back to your question about patience, right? It's not about be patient. It's how patient do you want to be? Makes sense. Okay. So what are you leaving with from this conversation? that is different than how you walked in? What I'm leaving with is more so for the team to have those expectations and communicate with them. I think it's most important to know where I stand, why do I stand like that? And to communicate that out to them, to help them in regards to know what the greater good is for the team and what I'm trying to accomplish in the team.

52:42And the second thing, as far as being a leader, and not a guaranteed promotion is where do I sit with it? Do I continue working for the company and sit where I am and develop more personally in the knowledge and, you know, working with other teams or even outside of, you know, the industry and maybe just learning about the business in general? Or am I okay with leaving and going somewhere else with it? with my knowledge and trying to get a higher title, more money, and being able to sit in that seat of making tougher decisions, I guess, for the business. So yeah, I think there's things to see on the leadership side, and there's something to also say about learning on my team.

53:39Okay. And so how stuck do you feel now versus when we first started? Now, at the end of our conversation, I think it's not being stuck, but it's seeing the perspective of what is out there and sharing what my perspective is with the team. And then in regards to the leadership style is really like honing in on what am I okay with? Yeah. Okay. All right. So a little more movement. A little more movement means a little less stuck. Okay. Yes. All right. Let me know where you net out on all this. You got some conversations to have and you got some thinking to do. Okay. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you.

54:32When we began our conversation, Amy articulated that she felt stuck. She was looking for answers from above her, from the people around her, and from the team she was managing. And underneath all of that was a very understandable desire for certainty. Tell me what I need to do and tell me whether it will lead to the promotion I want. But there are no guarantees in our career. What we do have are choices. Amy can choose how she leads her team. She can make her expectations explicit, build stronger relationships, and measure success against the goals of the business rather than her own expectations of how hard people should be working.

55:13And she can choose how she thinks about her own career. She can keep learning, expand her knowledge, work across teams, and decide how long she's willing to stay without knowing whether that promotion will come. Realizing she has these choices gives her something she didn't feel she had when we started, movement. And sometimes getting unstuck isn't about finally finding the answer. It's about realizing you have more choices than you thought you did.

55:45That's it for today. Come back in two weeks for a new Coaching Real Leaders Ask Muriel Anything episode. and a reminder to vote for us in the Signal Awards. We'd be so grateful if you can head over to vote.signalaward.com today to show your support for Coaching Real Leaders in the advice and how-to category. If you want me to coach you through an issue or have a question you want answered, head on over to coachingrealleaders.com and let me know. And if you want to unpack the episodes from Coaching Real Leaders, you can join me at coachingrealleaderscommunity.com, where I host live discussions about each coaching session you hear on this show.

56:27You can also follow me on LinkedIn at Muriel Wilkins and on Instagram at Coach Muriel Wilkins. A reminder that if you love these coaching conversations, it would mean the world to me if you would go to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to subscribe to the show and leave a five-star review. Thank you to my producer, Mary Du, sound editor Nick Kringko, music composer Brian Campbell, and my chief of staff Emily Sofa. Much gratitude to the leaders who join me in these coaching conversations, and to you, our listeners, who share in their journeys. I'm Uriel Wilkins. Until next time, be well.