S3E2: What is MEP and How did I get here?

0:05Welcome to the MEP podcast, where I'll be exploring the intersection of sport and spirituality through a variety of practices that ultimately invite us to learn, grow, and connect. I believe that through movement and mindfulness, we can create an awareness within that will allow us to integrate as individuals and connect more deeply to our mind, body, and spirit, together navigating a way to the way. All right, welcome to this episode. I guess like them all at this point, this one's going to be a little bit different as well. I thought I would take this time to explore what is Mindful Endurance Program, how it's evolved the last few years, and also how did I get here.

0:47Whether you're just finding the podcast now, maybe found the Instagram, found me on Instagram. I wanted to share a little bit of the backstory because I haven't really done that before. at least not in a wider context of sort of my career and journey essentially as an adult to getting here sort of the last, I guess, 15 years or so. So here we go. And I'll try to put this sort of in the context of the general lens and scope of awareness that I've been sharing. And yeah, maybe bring some light to myself on things that I didn't realize were happening at the time. But I'm going to go back to essentially the beginning of my sort of career.

1:33So early 20s, mid 20s in that realm. And, you know, at the time, I really didn't know what I was going to do. I was super focused on sports in high school and playing basketball, especially, which I loved and I miss, I would say. and my parents had a marketing company and I kind of just always thought like well I can just be a copywriter for their advertising company because I had some idea of what that was and it seemed like something I could do and so partially as a way to start to like practice that and also share what I loved, which at the time was mostly rap music and streetwear and sneakers, I just started a blog and that turned into an online magazine.

2:28And then that online magazine in, I guess it was 2009, became a printed magazine. And that printed magazine was then called Inventory. and I think a lot of what came before inventory was you know experience and experiments and trial and error and learning and building and growing along the way but when it became inventory it was the first time that I sort of started something of my own that was gonna was meant to generate revenue was meant to be a business and was really the medium for sharing what I was passionate about and started to bring people together like my best friend at the time Owen and then shortly after right before we started printing I met Simon so if anyone followed the magazine you might recognize these names or people from photos and stories at the time or bylines in the magazine and all that stuff but yeah these two guys especially were crucial and in sort of the early stages and you know ultimately uh inventory was a oh i can't remember the tagline but it was really about like menswear and design and sort of the philosophy of making things like with a lot of passion and and slowly and we did a lot of interviews with people that had been working in their craft whether it's designing collections every season or making shoes or making furniture for you know decades and having a really sort of understated beautiful timeless uh taste and design and we tried to bring that to the magazine itself and then um around the time our second issue came out in the spring of 2010 we opened our store in vancouver and we started selling brands uh most notably probably engineered garments which we had to uh hound angelo at engineered garments for years to get him to sell to us.

4:32And when we finally were going to open the store, he agreed. And it felt like such a crucial thing for us to lock in and made it seem like a viable, real thing. And so thank you, Angelo. Man, I have so many good memories of visiting you guys, visiting the showroom, conversations, trying to figure out if you hated us or liked us. and uh eventually working with us and um yeah just uh it was a beautiful journey and really uh cherish the memories and the times in in italy and in new york and uh yeah just the conversations and everything and and also just being super inspired by what angelo and daiki and the whole nepenthes engineered garments crew and team were doing because there was such a like varied level of projects, collaborations, and things where, you know, there was a sense of consistency, but also total unexpectedness.

5:32And I think, like, that's something I've always really been inspired by. And they just created a really beautiful and special version of that. And I think anyone who is sort of aware of menswear in this sort of time of 2008, 2009 through I don't know exactly when if it even ended because engineered garments are still making great stuff but um I know Angela's moved on but yeah it was a really like special decade at least for me personally and they were a big inspiration and so when we were doing collaborations and working with different brands and making footwear and clothing you know there was always uh usually some needles or engineered garments or nepenthes references and you know what we were doing so big like shout out to them um but yeah inventory was you know this magazine and a retail store we were publishing online every day you know essentially like blog format and uh selling online having a little space in vancouver that was pretty shabby to uh start with but eventually we actually got some lights and some shelving and uh started to look better but uh we had our office right in the back so it was just like super efficient shoestring budgets but you know figuring it out as we went and um honestly I just learned so much in that whole experience from you know making a magazine and doing press checks and what goes into the design process and you know also shout out to like the designers that worked on the magazine Chris Allen originally I worked really closely with him um but he definitely put together a lot of like the foundation of the design of the magazine and then uh aunt anthony hooper came on board and uh kind of took it from there and we evolved it and then the last few issues redesigned it and uh honestly i look at those issues now and i'm like wow this could come out today and it's like just as good as anything else of course i'm biased but i also i'm not usually one to say like my own work is that great but honestly looking at those magazines I feel really proud of it and I feel like it's it's timeless and fresh and you know it's interesting to to look at those issues you know issue 11 12 and 13 especially and be like damn it took us you know five years to get to the point where we made something that really felt our own in a sense and then of course we pulled the plug and moved on from there.

8:12But yeah, inventory was like kind of where I learned everything. And it was through that that we met amazing people and brands that gave us as a team and a company opportunities, but also me personally, opportunities to go and take photos and create more books and more publications and work with a brand like Stussy. So I started working with them, I think around 2015 to 2020. and they had already sort of begun turning the ship with their leadership team and Fraser Avi who gave me a big opportunity and you know it's funny when I first moved to Vancouver I remember like hitting him up and like oh can I just come like take some photos of this or a store opening or whatever and so he gave me some opportunities you know just working for free or for trading for product early on and then you know years later after building inventory, I got to come in and work with him and drive some of their initiatives and special projects.

9:15And yeah, I just feel so grateful because that was a different type of platform, a different type of energy, different resources. And again, just like learn so much working with him, working with a bigger company, learning how to be more adaptable and flexible, which at times I think I drove them a little bit crazy. But yeah, I had five years working with Stussy, and that overlapped with my time with inventory. And, you know, I got to make some books, work with Alistair McKim, some amazing photographers, campaigns, go to Tokyo, and all sorts of stuff like that. And Dover Street Market, we really, like, kind of launched that partnership with them.

10:00And the Shop and Shops around the 35th anniversary, I believe it was. and just, yeah, so grateful for the opportunity and the trust to go explore those things. And, you know, led to the next thing, which was moving to New York myself after living in Vancouver. And as inventory sort of wound down, which is a very challenging experience, honestly. First, we kind of closed up the physical retail and then sort of finished off the last issue of the magazine. And, you know, the team sort of dispersed and we moved on to different things. And eventually, you know, it just kind of was it. And we put up the notice.

10:41And it took me actually many years to come back and sort of like grieve that loss. I was also going through like a heartbreak from a relationship, which had really sort of, sort of like smashed my whole self-concept to pieces. Or at least smashed a huge dent in it. and then all the pieces sort of slowly crumbled off while I tried to like tape them back together. And so because of that, I just didn't really have the capacity to grieve the ending of that sort of era of inventory and all it meant and the friendships and the relationships and the travel and, you know, so many things. And so I think I just sort of like stuffed it down and kept moving and moved to New York and, you know, somewhat struggled and found some other beautiful opportunities and, you know, continued with Stussy at that point and got to work with Woolrich and shoot some really cool campaigns and eventually ended up with Todokayo.

11:41And that was a whirlwind of an experience that eventually was sort of like the straw that broke the camel's back for me in terms of like personally and creatively. You know, on paper, it was an incredible opportunity and kind of allowed me to do all the things that I loved. And for, you know, eight or nine months, I embraced it to the max that I could. And I really actually enjoyed the process and got to do some amazing things, even in a short period of time. But it was just a very challenging situation. And I still had some other plates I was juggling work-wise. And meanwhile, I had gone for my first Vipassana.

12:24I went to Thailand and was trying different cleanses and diets and just knew something was off and I didn't know what it was. And so it wasn't working 60 hours a week. It wasn't making more money. It wasn't living in New York. It wasn't a diet. I could feel my energy just like draining and draining. I wasn't able to run like I could before or work out like I could before. and so you know eventually just felt like I gotta like do something else I gotta like see what's going on under the hood and connected with an old friend who has been doing health coaching and he basically you know extended his arm to me and was like let me try and help you and I was like okay and yeah I think it was a few months later where I was like all right I'm quitting all my jobs and leaving New York.

13:17And at that point I, you know, I started working with a therapist for the first time and this would have been in 2017, I think, um, where I kind of like finally it was like, all right, I gotta like look under the hood. Um, and so yeah, that was really the beginning of this sort of like inward introspective exploration and um yeah it was uh very challenging and i think in some ways you know you're always in the moment kind of like white knuckling it hanging on for dear life while trying to figure out what's going on and so it seems kind of manageable uh it's only really in like retrospect that i look back and i'm like holy crap i was like really a mess.

14:06I was really dysregulated and really just feeling super scared. I didn't know what was going on and it's confusing and didn't feel like things were getting better and just kind of like desperate essentially. And, you know, I think that sort of crisis and desperation is, is what brings a lot of people to, you know, this work of, you know, looking into the shadows and looking into our unconscious and it's not often that somebody's like wow everything's going great i think i'm just gonna like flip my whole understanding of life and existence and the universe on its head and see what happens it's usually like we get to the point of like i'm totally aft i need some help what the heck is going on and so i went and did a retreat at this place called the Haven in British Columbia.

14:55And that was shocking and eye opening and heart opening and body opening. And that was the first time I ever did holotropic breath work. And it was honestly terrifying seeing what other people were going through in that process and then mustering the courage to do it myself and seeing what came up and, you know, and from then it was just like, there was kind of no turning back. I went and stayed with my friend who was the health coach for a month, month and a half. And at that point was the first time I drank ayahuasca. You know, I went and drank ayahuasca for four nights in a row, which I can't help but laugh at because I would never recommend somebody go do that for the first time.

15:42It was incredible and ultimately quite overwhelming and very challenging to integrate. But it's taken me many years to learn that lesson so I guess it was perfect right um I turned 40 in April and a guy in our men's group asked me this question of like what would you tell your 20 year old self and what do you imagine your 60 year old self telling you now and the thing that came up for me telling the 20 year old self is just do whatever you think you have to do you know but do it fully and so I think of that now when I think of things like, ooh, I don't think I would recommend that. But at the time, that's what I had to do, you know?

16:23And I thought I had to do it, and I had to, you know, go for it. And there's this funny trait of, like, that I correlate to my dad and how he approaches things at times where it's like, oh, you're going to have the supplement, and it takes, says to take two? Well, it should probably take four then. That's got to be twice as good, right? So I went in for four nights of ayahuasca. And, you know, there's basically two things that have happened in my life that I've never been the same since. And it's almost hard to relate to the experience I was having before that. And it's drinking ayahuasca and having a child.

17:01Those two things are some of the most impactful, huge shifts in my human experience that, you know, essentially just like fundamentally changed the paradox at which I experienced the universe and can never go back to before that. So that was quite an interesting period. So I spent some time back in Canada and then moved down to L.A. kind of beginning of 2018, I believe. And so at that point, you know, really didn't know what I was going to do. Found myself sort of wanting to reject a lot of the fashion and design stuff that I had been like so obsessed with and really sort of latched my identity to.

17:48But at the same time, didn't know what else was going on. And I think kind of fell into just going deep and deep into the sort of spiritual exploration. exploration and you know it's a funny like term like being spiritual or spiritual exploration or inner exploration or like you know it's like none of these are actually very accurate of what it is but they're the terms that we use so I'll just kind of like stick with them for now um so at that point I spent I pretty much like was doing more a lot more meditation and reading a lot of books and podcasts and ended up finding Paul Cech and taking his courses online and then was fortunate enough to work with him and also take his HLC level two course down in San Diego area and you know that was a huge kind of changing point as well I think in terms of working with somebody at that level and for me meeting somebody with such a intense masculine energy was something I've always resisted and not felt comfortable with and just felt this huge draw to that and it was really interesting because that was a huge part of like tapping into that myself and starting to cultivate that and at least like being around it in a way that was really unlike anything I'd ever experienced before and you know he's been a huge mentor and an amazing teacher and continues to be just through you know creating the content he's doing and and all the work he's doing so highly recommend paul check if anything i've said sounds interesting um he's like just one of the most inspiring unique versatile um humans i've ever come across um and so i was working with sitting with ayahuasca still pretty regularly about every sort of six to eight months for the next few years um which was you know incredible um and sort of the pinnacle of this experience was three summers in a row I did something called the isolation dieta and it's where you go for a full week and you do ayahuasca ceremony and then you essentially fast in the forest by yourself for four days and nights and then you finish the week with two ayahuasca ceremonies and you also work with like a specific teacher plant that's not psychoactive and that helps to open up sort of deeper layers and so it's the seven or eight day experience um being in the forest alone and then coming back and and sitting with ayahuasca and i just remember like being like this is the most intense thing ever.

20:43And it really was. And it was amazing. And each three times I did it was life changing and inspiring. And I really didn't know how challenging that was going to be to integrate. And so I'd say a lot of the suffering on my journey has been going into these deep deep deep opening states of almost like the true nature of what we are and then coming back to a relationship or a city or a job or a family and trying to reconcile this while it's almost all unconscious all in the nervous system all in the emotional body and the mind is trying to make sense of it. So I'm like, well, no wonder that was almost an impossible task.

21:31And, you know, I remember them saying like the real work starts when you go home from these retreats and it is really true. Um, and so yeah, if anyone's thinking about working with these medicines, I would just say like, you know, do some research, talk to people who have worked with them that you trust. Um, they can be incredibly amazing and I don't regret any of it, but I also can see how it has made things harder at times maybe walking this path and just this sort of intensity that that sort of can bring on but it was through these experiences that I sort of then got to the point of feeling like all right it's time to I feel called to do something or share something I want to like talk about this stuff and I think that can happen a lot of time with people and psychedelics is like they want to tell the world about it and tell everyone how amazing it is and that they have to do it and I did some of that although not through the new platform which I called Into the Well and so Into the Well was there that's when I originally launched this podcast and we did some workshops and some small collaborations and some um uh that's basically it it was like a blog podcast nice looking brand that never really was anything and I think that was part of the issue for me and the challenge for me because I just didn't know like what to do with it or where to take it but I just needed some kind of outlet to share and talk about and like ask these people questions and um that I had on as guests and so it was beautiful and it was great and I think it did resonate with some people and um really enjoyed just the process of it but eventually kind of was like felt like it didn't really have a direction or a purpose and and so kind of like that was the I went into like you know several months of just like what is this what is it meant to be what's it going to be and that's kind of what led to MEP and Mindful Insurance Program at that point and so yeah it was uh interesting because you know I went through like I've created you know I've got all these decks on my computer about like the clothing brand and the retail space and the movement space and these collaborations and this product and that product and the business plan and okay we need this much money and I need these three people.

23:59And, you know, it was kind of, I guess it's a good exploration, but ultimately, you know, none of that stuff sort of materialized. And I can't exactly say why, other than it must've not been the right time, but for whatever reason, um, I did feel inspired to sort of focus in at least as a sort of brand and title on this kind of space of like endurance sport and spiritual inner exploration. And I think getting back into running after tearing my ACL and then getting into cycling and then triathlon, you know, was a big part of that and starting to train with other people and notice like what that experience was like.

24:40And well, what if we brought in some breath work and some intentional prompts and some sharing circles, things I was learning from being in a men's group, which has also been a huge kind of piece of this puzzle. This month, it's been six years since joining, which was at that point called the Samurai Brotherhood. And now it's called the ARCA Brotherhood. And then a year and a little while ago, broke away from that, started my own group called Circle of One, which continues to evolve and has some interesting plans for next year. So I'm going to be sharing more about that in the near future. But this sort of like, yeah, group of men being able to share, explore, do challenging exercises, embodiment exercises, breathwork journeys, you know, I've learned a lot from that, that then comes into some of the MEP experiences as well and vice versa.

25:37And so, yeah, that's been truly amazing. And so finally, when I was like, okay, it's going to be MEP, Mindful Endurance Program. originally actually like I wanted to call it MEP and I thought of the brand like APC and like nobody really knows what that is or can say it unless they speak French and that works and I was like what if it's MEP but like it could be mindful endurance program or like movement experience practice it could be like all these different things like it doesn't even it isn't even one thing. And, you know, I think I like that idea and I've realized sort of like I have this sort of shadow, well, shadow gives it a negative feeling.

26:20And to some degree it's like a negative polarity. Um, but it's just a, an urge to not be put like in a box. I don't want it to be stuck being one thing. And I think eventually with inventory, that's what it felt like. And that was what was sort of like creating some agitation for me to want to break out of it. and do more freelance, take on other clients, and eventually sort of wind it down, because it felt like it got too rigid, and it was like, too, this is what it is, and it can't be something else. Of course, it could have been, but that's how I felt anyways, and it was so personal that that's, I didn't want that to happen to me, and so that's been something that's been a bit of a through line is like this sort of reluctance to commit fully to something, uh, because it's not complete or it could be pigeonholed or it won't include all these other facets of things that I'm interested in.

27:20And, and so I think that's some of the thinking there, but I think like objectively is like building a brand, probably a acronym that could mean an unlimited number of combinations of words is maybe not like the best way to build brand awareness. So I ended up sticking with Mindful Endurance Program. And I actually still like the name and it works well. And the funny part of it though, is like, people are like, well, what's the program? Where do I sign up? Like, what is it? And it's like, well, it's not really a program. That's kind of just like a bigger context for what it's about and it and it sounded good and looks good and um so yeah it's been interesting uh now of course they're kind of our programs you know there's like a half we did a half marathon program and a triathlon program and you know we're doing retreats running and cycling um looking at next year hopefully gonna add a gravel cycling retreat and a marathon program and so there are programs but there's not like the program so it's kind of funny in that regard but it's become a great medium for exploring a lot of this stuff of bringing people together and you know I've still struggled though however to like make it a business and I think like that's been a big challenge but just to kind of like yeah go back to MEP and its beginnings and really kind of launched it around doing the first cycling retreat which was four years ago this spring summer and so yeah that was kind of a funny experience as well because I had kind of just gotten into cycling and I don't really know a ton of cyclists I'm not like integrated into like the cycling community a lot of the cycling I was doing was in the context of triathlon training and really cycling and cycling communities are pretty removed from like triathlon triathlon training and most cycling brands don't really even want to be like associated with triathlon which is actually similar to running brands most of them don't really want to be associated to triathlon which is silly and a lot of these brands are missing out on the huge market but all that to say um yeah it was a funny choice to do this and anyways it worked out and amazing people have been coming and now we've done it for four years and honestly it's like one of the highlights of my year every year and so i'm just really excited to bring more of those experiences and so now i'm back with the podcast we're doing retreats We're doing these two to four month programs.

30:06We're doing different workshops and kind of little one day experiences. And I've got, you know, plenty of ideas in this space. But I guess ultimately, like, what is MEP and like, why does it exist? And what is it to me? Those are sort of the questions that I kind of wanted to now dive into as I've shared a little bit of the context and the journey for getting here. Because, you know, as I've reflected back on, you know, starting my blog and writing about sneakers and streetwear and rap music to an online magazine about menswear and fashion stuff. And then more into it with inventory and the retail space and all the things that we did there.

30:56And then into the well and now MEP. and you know through using the gene keys um it's really helped me sort of like ask these deep questions about like why am i doing this like what is it about it and ultimately the sort of like thing that came through this year for me was like i love exploring and sharing i love exploring and sharing and i even think back to like being in high school and like finding like the dopest basketball shoes and like showing them to my friends and in like grade 10 on our junior team I was like oh this like place has the Allen Iverson questions and they have them in this color like who wants them we'll get them as the whole team and it'll look sick and so like that was just like what I was doing as a 13 14 year old that's exactly what I'm doing now which is kind of dawning on me and then I went to like rap music and mixtapes and sharing that and so I've just always loved this experience of like exploring and sharing and exploring and sharing and within to the well i was like wow i'm exploring all this like super interesting complex stuff i need to share it so it's like i need a podcast i need to put this on t-shirts i need to like get it out there and you know that now is really the through line with with mep is like i just love exploring the human experience through endurance sport i love exploring you know the outer reaches of consciousness to be honest like um you know i've shared obviously my sort of love for psychedelics and you know that hasn't changed uh at all ever since it started you know i never really did drugs growing up at all and you know i don't really think of these as drugs but you know it doesn't really matter what you call them like it's more about like how do you relate to them and what's your intention um and so for me uh you know having a child and sort of moving really changed like the complete like the complexion of my day-to-day and year-to-year and you know spending a week in the forest by myself wasn't really an option but i was able to sort of like pivot and maneuver and start to work with these uh you know medicines at home and find you know unique ways to do it and integrate it into my daily life which didn't take me away from the family too much and that has been its very unique challenge and opportunity as well and I'm very grateful for it and you know at the same time recognizing like some of the patterns that has me reaching for that to help me when things feel overwhelming and so I'm currently actually in a period of being committed to not sitting with any psychedelics or plant medicines in a ceremonial uh like deep dive sort of experience for the next few months which has really opened up um a bit of a dark night of the soul for me um over the last four weeks and who knows for how much longer but it's been really interesting and interesting that the podcasts has sort of emerged from this dark night as well because i really felt like this draw and pull to share um even in this time of sort of confusion and uh just like murkiness of like what's gonna happen and where am i going and really the sort of experience of this dark night is like just inviting me much deeper into the truth of like not knowing and surrender and letting go and you know even though i kind of like know these and understand them on a very deep like physical cellular and nervous system experience it's super challenging to to let go of four decades of of conditioning and um interpreted fear and things like that and so i'm kind of like left in this process but at the same time and i guess this happens a lot like in the midst of sort of a period of suffering like expression and art can emerge and so my hope is to to lean into this because I feel again like I want to share I want to talk about my experience um just honestly like it's it's like selfish and altruistic because if it helps somebody that's great and I don't need anything back and it's like for me like i just really enjoy speaking about this it helps as i articulate it it helps me understand it i can sort of connect these different dots real time and i just find it quite cathartic and um enjoyable and so yeah exploring and sharing that's kind of like really if mep had a like sub tagline that's probably what it would be and i think that would be like my theme for this life and so i continue to explore these realms of consciousness through my own practices every day and through these deep dives uh with with the different medicines through the gene keys and uh you know other whatever modalities are sort of coming to me in the moment and then of course endurance sport and what's possible there with the body and how that sort of interconnects with the mind the heart and the spirit and what that can unlock and it's quite a lot honestly um i think like my whole relationship with endurance sport is massively transformed this year alone um into something it has never been before and uh it honestly makes me feel very like excited and optimistic to wake up each day and be like yes i've got this hard 90 minute run like what's gonna happen like what's gonna come up and go into it with curiosity and excitement uh i honestly look forward to it every day so then i love to share that share that with the team share that on the podcast um you know wherever the case at a retreat in a workshop and ask these questions about you know how do we know that we exist or who am i or um you know how like how do you identify with the ego versus the sort of divine self and starting to just like have these conversations around sport and movement i think just gives it this really interesting texture and then if you bring in something like breastwork uh it really just like creates a special and unique environment so i guess my hope really with mep is just to bring this to more people like i think you know sport and movement is natural to humans and it contributes to our health and like that's a great sort of like baseline to check off and once we do that like then where can we take it right and i think no matter where our sort of level of awareness is or where our sort of motivation is or the why that we've connected to is we can really you know just take that and just like flesh it out and explore it and chew on it and eventually it will sort of evolve and that's what's amazing you know it's like we can't extinguish like the experience like there's just so much to experience there's so much like dimensions within the human experience alone let alone as we can sort of venture into like other dimensions you know through sport or through breath or whatever the case and so there's just so much to explore and I think I remember you know doing the first half Ironman and I was like why am I even doing this and I think you know it's like nobody cares what my time is or anything and I just was feeling like well I just want to like explore and have like really interesting dynamic experiences as a human and you know that same kind of question and the same answer essentially came up with like having a child and having the family is this like like what could be a more big version of that is having a child really and it's like yeah like let's do it you know because it's it's scary uh it's super unknown it's intense on the heart it's intense on the body the mind you know different relationship dynamics but like if i know like as a human in this lifetime i want to explore like the the limits of consciousness and have these really dynamic experiences, then that's a great measuring stick to bring to these big questions like why to have a family, why to have a child, why to do a half Ironman, why to run a marathon, whatever the case.

39:58And then from there, it becomes a more open-ended, curious experiment of exploration, which gets me super excited. And then I love to share that experience and bring people on those experiences. And, you know, it's kind of funny. I was talking to somebody recently about like, well, what is like, what do you want to do? And, you know, I do feel like I can't really, you can only experience it by like coming on these experiences really. And even then it's kind of a glimpse of what's really happening. But the idea of like, I'm going to go to, I'm going on an adventure to the center of the earth. Who's coming with me is like, I just love the way that that like resonates within me and it feels like you know the way that this goes and so like who wants to do a four months half Ironman triathlon journey that involves like hard inner questions and tackling like our purpose and our career and our why and like who we are and things like this and how does that affect our relationship dynamics and being a parent and a husband or a partner, whatever the case, so many things, right?

41:08It's like, it's on, it's not the average triathlon program. Um, and the retreats are not your average, just like running retreat either. And so I just love doing that, you know, and, uh, I love taking people there. I love connecting with people that are willing and excited to go there and push themselves. And if you are willing to push yourself, like your inner experience and then your physical experience through endurance sport and you have that shared experience together it's just like magical honestly and so i guess i'll use this as a note to say like we're having a running retreat in early november november 6th to 9th and joshua tree so if any of this sounds interesting to you we probably have two spots left right now and this is what we're going to be doing we're going to push our bodies we're going to do it together we're going to have this shared physical bond.

42:00We're going to be tired. We're going to get in the cold plunge. We're going to breathe together. We're going to talk about it. We're going to eat together. And it's going to be awesome. And so, yeah, here's the invitation. If any of this is sound, sounds interesting and you can come get a good taste of like what an MEP experience is like on one of these retreats. But yeah, that's kind of like what MEP is about. And, you know, through my career in design and, you know, making product and collaborating, like I love that side of it too, the aesthetic side of it. And it's honestly quite tricky to balance all of that too, you know, making the time to make a nice video and, um, do sick graphics and find budget for any of this stuff, uh, you know, put it out on time, post on social media, you know, it's, it's challenging and it has been challenging, but there's like nothing I would rather be doing right now.

42:58And so it's interesting because here I am, MEP is four-ish years old. We're almost halfway through this triathlon program. It's just a, I'm so stoked and grateful for the group of guys in it. It's been so fun. We've got our training camp coming up, another race this weekend. Yeah. The running retreat, you know, it takes a lot of legwork and a lot of emails and things like that and you know ultimately it doesn't and hasn't really generated like a ton of money and so it's interesting because you know here I am 40 years old I have a three-year-old and a wife and we've got a house and like the pace of my life and the sort of complexion and dynamics of a day-to-day are pretty amazing and pretty awesome and there's also still like a chronic stress of sort of insecurity and that belief of lack that, you know, in some regards, like drives me to do things, uh, like a mushroom journey, but at the same time, totally stifles me in terms of how does this generate financial abundance and what does that look like?

44:09And, and it's so interesting how, uh, you know, a person can have that same wound, inspire creative action, or it can inspire like total suppression and avoidance and shame. Right. And so, you know, I'm still personally in this experience of like, how does this make sense? How does, you know, how is being enough? How can I just sit in being and, you know, have things happen? You know, there's this Taoist saying that I've mentioned probably every time I record anything, it's like nothing is done and nothing left is nothing is done and nothing is left undone. And it's like, there's a deep resonance of truth in my being of that phrase.

44:56And my mind is like, but how the hell does that make sense? How does that make money? How does that make your wife feel safe? How does that make you feel safe? How does that get you the gravel bike you want or those other shoes that you want or the vacation that would be nice or whatever the case, you know, it's like, it doesn't make sense to the mind. And so, you know, ultimately MEP, exploring and sharing my own personal exploration, what is that all leading to, you know? And I think like, essentially the only thing it can lead to is, is realization, you know, self-realization, non-self-realization and kind of touched on this in the last one but that's really what MEP is about you know and I use this phrase a lot with MEP is like sort of one of the taglines is like a way to the way and they talk about the Tao as the way but if it's like you're talking about the Tao then it's not the real Tao it's like it's undefinable it's uh there's another tradition that talks about you know oneness but it's like you can't call it that because then it's not the real thing so they call it like the not to which i love and so there's this really interesting like this undefinable merging with the with one with the oneness with the truth of the universe the truth of our humanity the truth of our divine eternal self and it's like realizing that and embodying that gnosis and knowing it, it's not a belief.

46:42It's embodied truth of what and who we are, which is undefinable. Getting there is the point of MEP. and so for whatever reason like i love movement and endurance sport and i love all of the different spiritual teachings and teachers and methods from you know yoga and breath work and kundalini and daoism and the chakras and you know synthesizing all these different things into different teachings and understanding and the process of differentiating out like what we aren't so that we can realize what we are and so that's kind of like the whole point i guess is to see how far we can get in this lifetime like how deeply can you embody the truth of the universe in this lifetime how deeply can you realize your truth in this lifetime and so how does that How do you reconcile that with making a trucker hat or a t-shirt or a tote bag or making money?

48:08It's challenging, and I think that's where I feel challenged is I know if I can embody the truth of that and sort of heal these misguided beliefs of lack, then I would be embodying the truth of what I am, which is abundance. The true nature of what we are, the true nature of the universe is abundance. The true nature of money is abundance. There's so much money out there and they just keep printing more of it. There's more than enough money for everyone. I think. Um, and so, although maybe our like capitalistic system wouldn't allow for everyone to have all that money in that way, but we are also extremely creative beings.

48:59So we made up the system. We can certainly break it and come up with something new, uh, from the heart though. It would have to be from the heart and not the mind. Um, so yeah, it's really interesting to want, you know, it's like all these phrases, like Alan Watts is always saying, like, you are what you seek, you know, it's like, I want abundance, I am abundance, but I have to embody the truth of being abundant, so that I can realize and have the experience of abundance, right? So it kind of works like counterproductive, because if we're unconsciously chasing it, we can get the financial abundance, but we're not even aware of what the thing is we're actually chasing or where a desire is meant to be leading us and so it ends up being unfulfilling and then we sort of like end up chasing all sorts of other things where really we're just trying to return home to ourselves right return home to the realization of our true self and what we really are and so yeah what is MEP and how did I get here that's kind of a yeah a 50 minute journey and there's probably lots more stuff and honestly I love talking about this stuff and I love answering questions so I don't know if this is an opportunity to put out the sort of feelers for like to ask me anything but if anyone is listening to this I'll try and figure out how to do that because I would love to answer questions in the context of what I just shared about how I got here you know it's hard to cover 10 years and 15 years and 50 minutes but that's sort of the the shape of the journey anyways and um yeah where it's gonna go from here I don't know I've got some like vision for next year and the mind is getting in the way because it wants it to make money somehow because then I'll be able to feel safe and then I can do what I really want to do but I just need to do what I really want to do and trust that it'll be okay and so you know always sort of bringing more and more awareness to this to get off the hamster wheel and ultimately trust you know is is kind of the key and patience is sort of the practice of trust and listening to our intuition and following it through is the practice of trust and there's a beautiful line in the gene keys when you get into something called the seven sacred seals and there's a one of the the seals is forgiveness and the line in there is trust beyond all understanding and i really have been like using that as a mantra because it's so beautiful and it's so true and it's also so necessary you know to trust the Tao to trust the oneness to trust God spirit it's beyond all understanding of the mind the mind cannot comprehend what that means what that looks like it can't even comprehend what we are who we are these sort of like truths can only be contemplated and then embodied that's the only way to know them we can't really know them with the mind it can be helpful to have context and understand to a degree but it's not true knowing it's not wisdom and so yeah setting out on this path and it's never ending and it's always exciting and it's always an experiment you know i think you know the idea of like the mindful endurance program and like creating a program, I find really, I would find very challenging to create a program that would just run over and over again, because I feel like I'm moving through this process at a relatively fast speed or pace.

52:51And so I'm always bringing like my, where I'm at and the experiments that resonate with me to whatever's happening on the next call, in the next retreat, in the next workout in the next race and so there you know there are some sort of foundational practices and pieces but ultimately it's never the same you know uh you never step in the same river twice is another great uh phrase and i actually tried to make a t-shirt with that where you never go on the same run twice uh which i still probably do so don't steal it um but i love those things and it's like that's really like a great mantra for mep as well it's like you'll never go to the same retreat twice you'll never go on the same run twice you'll never sign up for this same program twice because i'm not going to be the same and you're not going to be the same and literally everything else in the universe isn't going to be the same and so it can't possibly be the same experience and so that's what's like so exciting you know the unknown can be terrifying and the unknown can be extremely exciting at the same time and you know the mindful endurance program is always pushing into the unknown, you know, physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and that's what it's all about.

54:04And, uh, so don't come and don't listen to this if you're not interested in that. But if you are, we've got stuff coming up, run retreat, um, more, uh, sort of like one-off workouts, got a potentially cool one coming up with some riding and some running um and then programs and stuff like that for for next year and so yeah i'm really excited about it uh also nervous also don't know what's going to happen but we can all find out together so welcome to the mindful endurance program and i'll see you on the next episode