Kwasi Kwarteng On Frozen Britain - The Sinister Tax Grab and The Crushing of the UK Middle Class

28:21He goes, no, we're getting it for 8 grand a year. That's what your granddaddy agreed to. so this this idea that inflation is inevitable and is always going to it's a it's a relatively modern one but they could grow the economy when with with a solid um price uh a stable price but with all this increased debt surely they're not going to be able to control inflation so so you're right the the world we're in now because we've got paper currencies um fiat money is one where we print more money and the value of the currency goes down um and that that ratchet seems pretty unavoidable to me particularly at the level of indebtedness but all i was questioning was this idea that you can have economic growth you can't have economic growth without inflation right which which is clearly wrong because they they grew the economy in the 19th century it's just that the standard of value was was the same so you're looking at productivity you're not looking at right i say yeah should i mean yeah because i suppose on the other side of the argument if you earn a pound, you feel like it's your right that that pound is still worth a pound next year and the year after and the year after.

29:26That's right. And the year after. That's right. And that was the understanding. I mean, you look at interest rates, for example. You know, the old bank rate was 5%. And for most of the 19th century, it was around that. And that was a stable money standard. For about 75 years, the bank rate was 5%. And they lived in that world. They could still make money. They could still invest. They could innovate. They could do all those things. They invented things. They invented steam. They invented a whole bunch of stuff. But they didn't need inflation to grow their economy. They innovated and were more productive.

30:03Are the middle classes now the new working class under Labour? 100%. 100%. Because actually, you look at the, again, history. I mean, that's my bread and butter. The whole concept of working class was people who were working. because in those days, they didn't have a welfare state. It was tough. And people worked. And they worked until they dropped dead, pretty much. And it was only when we brought in the old age pension in 1909. And a trivia question. What was the age at which we brought in the old age pension in 1909, 110 years ago? What? Any, any, any, any? I'm going to go younger than 55. It was 70.

30:43It was 70. The life expectancy wasn't 70. Exactly, exactly. Because those Edwardian parliamentarians, they weren't thick. They said, okay, we're going to bring in a pension. It was at 70. That's how Mark would do it. And your life expectancy at 70 was about 18 months. It's like a pat on the back. Here's a turkey for Christmas. Well done, mate. And, you know, you see your way. And what people like me did over the last, over 100 years was we lowered it. So it went down to 65 in, I think, 1928. And then in 1948, the Labour government said, okay, we'll have 60 for women, because it was the same. And also in those days, it wasn't, you know, women in the workplace was not so common, but they brought it down.

31:27And we basically lowered that pension age, and now it's going up again. But it's not as high as it was 110 years ago. Wow. I knew people would go lower, but actually it's extraordinary. Yeah. And Victorian Edwardian Britain, you know, they were very, I imagine there's people like my friend Jacob Rees-Mogg, very tough financiers, you know, and they weren't going to give much away. And that was the pension age. So why are the middle class now being pulled into the working class? So essentially, so you've got a welfare state that we talked about with its issues. You've got a culture where not just one person doesn't work ever.

32:04You've got two or three generations of people who are living on the welfare state. And they're not working class people. They're not working. I mean, they might, you know, the socioeconomic thesis be described as working class, but they're not actually working class. They're not working. And the people who are working and paying taxes are the middle stratum of society. The really rich can go off and do whatever they want. But that whole, I'd say between about 40 grand and half a million, something like that, that's where most of the taxes are extracted. And all of those people work, essentially.

32:41And is it things like fiscal drag and inflation that pulls people down into working class as well? Yeah. So I think fiscal drag is huge. So, you know, if you're earning, you know, my old constituency, just outside London, people earning 70, 80 grand a year, good wage, but they're not rich, but they were paying, you know, easily paying the top rate, 40%. And you know, they're commuting, their commuting costs are very high. using the train. And those are working people. You know, they're the middle class working people. So that's a very interesting question. And I think there's a lot to be said for that.

33:17A lot to be said for that. The 4 million people on benefits who don't have to look for a job, they're not working class. They're not working. Silver has crashed. It's back to its price in 1974. And I'm going to buy more. And if you'd like to learn how to invest and build multiple streams of recurring income, I recommend you join money.school. Money.school is my global financial education platform to help as many people on this planet get better financial knowledge. For less than four Starbucks coffees a month, there are hundreds of hours of courses, resources, and masterclasses going back a decade to teach how to make, manage, and multiply money and gain financial freedom.

33:54So join thousands of other money and freedom seekers on the link money.school and start today your journey to financial freedom and more money. This is slightly off topic, but I think it's a relevant point. Media in the UK, for example, the BBC, and obviously this thing with Donald Trump suing them for quite an outrageous piece of propaganda, almost, I think. What is the media like? And has the media lost the country. Do we not believe in the media? So look, I think with the B, I mean, Andrew Marr said it. He didn't, you know, he didn't hide the fact, he believes, and you can look at the quote, the BBC should be a progressive, you know, socially progressive, enlightened social Democrat organization.

34:45I don't think he used the word social Democrat, but if you read what he says, that's exactly, you know, he didn't even hide it. He says, you know, we should be for the underdog. We should be for, you know, ethnic minorities. We should be and that's a view that you know, that's fine if he has that but it's not the job of the that's not what the Charter says And I think a lot of people in the BBC and also actually in the civil service Do think that their job is to is to act as actors kind of watchdogs Against you know, people like me trying to try to cut benefits They genuinely think I'm a civil servant and my job is to protect the most vulnerable against, you know, right-wing governments.

35:25But that isn't the job description. But a lot of them take on a moral purpose. And the other thing you ought to remember, many of you, I suspect, aren't civil servants in this room. But the way it's structured, the way the civil servants is structured is that you might, let's say you hire in the Treasury 1 ,000 graduates or 500, whatever. A proportion of them, maybe half, after three years are going to leave. So it's a very sharp pyramid and the ones that leave tend to get jobs either in the Bank of England or the private sector The ones that go to the Bank of England After three or four years might go into JP Morgan or whoever the point is that graduating class ten years down the line is Probably a third of what it was and who do you think stays there?

36:13The people who stay are probably people who haven't got the opportunity to get another job for whatever reason because they're not performing or they're not ambitious. And all they're ideologically committed to the public service, which is great. But that comes with its own biases and interests. So a lot of the time they're regulating things that they don't really have an interest in. So when I look at Treasury saying, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna, you know, get rid of inheritance tax loopholes. And we're gonna put inheritance tax on farms. I guarantee none of those people have ever worked on a farm, or other kids are farmers.

36:48They're They're legislating about stuff they don't understand, fundamentally. And that's because of the culture which they subscribe to. It's not their fault, but that's just the environment of the civil service. So my view is, and I remember when I was Secretary of State, I was 45 when I was Secretary of State. I remember thinking, my equivalent, a 45-year-old who's been here 20, 25 years since leaving school or university, is probably got a certain worldview that won't necessarily be shared by people in this room. Let me put it up. I.e. Marxist. They could be Marxist. They could be eco-warrior zealots.

37:25They could be, you know, really have a social, which is good, you know, social conscience. They're driven by things that, you know, a lot of business people are motivated by, but not to the point that they're going to devote their whole life to being in the transport department, okay? I had a school friend, and I went up to the transport department, and I said, Angus. I hadn't seen him for about 20 years, 25 years. I said, Angus, what are you doing? He said, oh, I work in the Department of Transport. I thought, that's amazing. And how long have you been doing this job? Oh, 22 years. I'm like, what?

37:55You've been here? No, quasi not at this desk. I was over there. For 19. And that, you know, and he's a good guy and he's smart, but that's what, that's, he's an official to his fingertips. And all I'm saying is that the way they think, what they think of their responsibilities is completely different to someone in the private sector. And it's the job of the minister to try and mould them and shape them to drive what the government's doing. And I don't think we do enough of that as a political culture. We let them just run it. So what I can't get my head around is I try and be open-minded, but I can't understand how any government can say things like government money or government funded.

38:41And it seems to be a Marxist view or a left view that the government generates money. That's what they do, yeah. How do they generate money? They take it off producers. They take it off the private sector. So there was the best illustration of that kind of mindset. I remember when Obama ran for president in 2008 the first time. And he was this great, you know, shining sort of figure. And he was on the left. And there was a guy called Joe the Plumber. Okay, Joe the Plumber, and he became this sort of Republican icon. And Joe the Plumber was talking about tax cuts and all the rest of it. And Obama just said, well, you know, you think you're a businessman, Joe the Plumber or whoever.

39:21It's like, yeah, but who made the roads? Who pays for the schools that your kids go to? Who, you know, provides the infrastructure, the support for your business? He doesn't think of business people being innovators or entrepreneurs. He basically thinks that the state, the government, enables you and everyone in this room to do whatever business they do. I mean, it's crazy, but that was very much, when I saw him say that, I said, I totally get their mindset. They think government comes first and that everything else that anyone does is almost like a, not a blessing, but it's almost like a gift that the government, with the government money, is giving to entrepreneurs and innovators, which is completely insane.

40:06It's the other way around. It's actual private enterprise that's providing money for the government to do whatever it is. Well, the private enterprise built the roads contracted by the government. That's right. So even that, but the reason I mention that is I remember watching it on television thinking, just, you know, the scales dropped from my eyes. I said, this guy genuinely believes that the government is why we have all these businesses and why we have a good private enterprise system. He genuinely believes that. And the other person who believed that was Gordon Brown. He was very similar.

40:37He thought the state was a great enabling force and allowed all these people, you, me, and everybody else, to do whatever it is we wanted to do. I mean, I get that it's a valuable service if run well, but how can someone either be so ignorant or so arrogant to think that it is the creator? Yeah, they do. They think... How? They think, and I think it's because they don't know business. They don't have anyone in their family that has ever been in business. You know, they can be academics, Gordon Brown, you know, his father was a minister in the church. Obama had, you know, whatever background he had.

41:16The thinking is they don't understand private enterprise. And they think somehow that the state was always there and that private enterprise is something that just, you know, the state allows through its benevolence. But that's obviously complete nonsense because you look at it privately. In the 19th century, the state barely existed. Spending to GDP was like 5 % or something. There was a free enterprise system. But they don't think of it like that. And so far they do think like that. They think that was bad. And they think now we're progressive. We've got more state. I remember I had a debate with, I was literally like this with Tony Benn.

41:58Does anyone remember Tony Benn? Yeah, everyone does. We're all old. And I remember him saying, we were in some debate, I can't remember if it was a literary festival or something, you know, I was a young Tory MP, he was getting on. And he basically said, well, look at the war, you know, the state, we won the war through state planning. So why can't we win the peace through state planning? And I thought, oh, my God, I can totally see how he thinks like that. Because he thinks, well, you know, everything should be like on a wartime footing where the state commandeers everything. and it's bonkers but that was very much and i think i think we talk about history but i think the world wars did change britain and a lot of people like tony bent coming out of world war ii certainly thought well we all club together the state run everything to defeat hitler so why can't the state run everything forever um and i think that's very wrong but i can see how this thinking to answer your question uh comes comes about and i think there are historic reasons in this country why we've gone left quite severely.

42:59Whereas we invented capitalism, Adam Smith, trading, all of that stuff. That was here before anywhere else, the Industrial Revolution. But we've become very socialistic. So we're going to be like Kodak who invented digital photography and then went fast because they didn't do digital photography. So we invented capitalism and we're going to go down with socialism. Yeah, I mean, that's a risk. I actually am more optimistic. It's a risk? Yeah, I think I'm more optimistic. I think fundamentally... No, you're not. We had a chat in the hallway. No, no, no. The first thing you shook my hand and you said, this is socialism.

43:32True or true? Yeah, I did say that. But I don't think the socialism is forever. I think fundamentally... And I've said this before in these gatherings with you. I think fundamentally, Britain is about risk-taking and entrepreneurship. I mean, everyone in this room, you know, we've all grown up here and you've all plotted different paths in terms of entrepreneurship. There are lots of countries where that doesn't happen. They do look to the state or they do look to the military or whatever for employment. But actually, you know, we've got this individuality. We still have an individualistic culture.

44:05We're mavericks. We want to try different things out. We don't want to be told what to do. I still think that that's a fundamental thing. It might be eroding, but I think in the end that will kick in and prevent mass socialism being adopted. But who knows? Yeah. Yeah. So you've said cut spending is important. Very. Put that to the side. What else can we do to get growth? So once you've cut spending, then you can start thinking about cutting taxes. And you've got to work out which taxes are the best ones to reduce. And I think, for me, corporation tax is something that I would very much focus on.

44:46And that was why I backed Liz Truss, actually. because we were going to increase corporation tax from 19%, which was universally very competitive, to 25%. And if we just stuck to that, you know, things might have been different. But that, to me, was a very fundamental incentive. You know, lots of you, I mean, I also construct my affairs around a company. And actually, it's nicer to be able to pay even 25 % than 45 % on income. and and you know greens will say well they should equalize the two but then you're going to kill any incentive for anyone to to form a company so corporation tax is very important i think business rates and i think they have tinkered around with them um to give them some credit uh i think business rates are very important as in reduce them yeah yeah yeah and i think i think we've got to think about incentivizing investment income tax is important and i want to reduce that but if i had to choose one or the other I would look at capital taxes on well or the corporations uh on investment even dividends that sort of thing investment income investment opportunity yeah should be encouraged why in the UK do we not just tax businesses a lot but the thresholds are so low they're very low like in America and Dubai it's hundreds of thousands before you get anywhere near any top brackets.

46:13That's right. As I said, they introduce things very lightly, and then all of a sudden the thresholds just stay forever, and more and more people pay more and more. You look at inheritance tax, very low levels. I mean, in America, I think it's$12 million. So anything up to$12 million, you're not paying inheritance tax on. And that kind of makes sense. I'd love to see something like that here. But no, everything's at a much lower level, and more and more people get dragged into the net. How do you think Donald Trump's doing in America? I think he's doing pretty well. I mean, I'll say, I mean, I don't agree with tariffs, okay?

46:48I never, ever would agree with that. I mean, you have to have some, though, surely. Yeah, so the argument for tariffs is reciprocal trade. Yeah. So, you know, if you're a total free trader, the other country puts a 20 % tariff on your goods, a classical free trader would say we're not going to retaliate. But I think that's unrealistic. So you retaliate. And when he came in and he said look China is a big problem. He said that from 2015 And you will remember in 2015. I was there 2015 and 14 president Xi came to England and pretended to like bitter with David Cameron in that pub in Oxfordshire I mean, we were like this with China and and Trump to be fair to him was one of the first Western leaders to say no China is a problem And you know, I've been to China.

47:32I've seen factories in China They use they didn't have health and safety like we have they use what could only be described almost as slave labor, prisoners, all sorts of things. You know, my kids, I've got a four-year-old and a one-year-old. They have these little ducks, you know, in the bath. Any parents, you know, with young kids, you've got these ducks. They're all made in China, those ducks, all of them. And the people making them are, a lot of them are prisoners. They're people who aren't being paid. So yes, slap trade tariffs on China to equalize it. I get that. But then, you know, he's doing it all around the board.

48:04I think about 140 countries that he slapped tariffs on. And I think that's regressive. Having said that, they raise a ton of money. And I don't think they're going to get rid of them. I think even if the Democrats came in, they wouldn't get rid of them because a lot of American business is helped by, you know, tariffs are defensive. They keep other competition out of your country. So a lot of productive interests, production interests, are going to support keeping the tariffs. So, and this is an example of one guy reaching the highest office and totally bringing a sea change in global trade. I think if it wasn't for Trump, nobody was going to put these tariffs.

48:48He's been banging on about tariffs for 40 years. But even your bog standard Republicans, they're like me, they don't like tariffs. And the Democrats don't like tariffs. So it's just an example of one person totally changing the dynamics. And so in his own terms, doing what he says he wants to do, I think he's quite effective. I mean, more and more people are saying to me now that they feel, even people in politics, by the way, not just entrepreneurs, that maybe the people that run our country need to be business people with business experience, need to be entrepreneurial. Yeah. What do you think?

49:25I think that's true. but I think, I mean, I was in the House of Commons for 14 years. And even in those years, it was less and less attractive. You know, you could go into the House of Commons 15 years ago and you could keep up your business interests. It was much easier to do that. Now, yes, you can have them, but you've got to declare everything. People frown on it. People, you know, you're a greedy so-and-so for doing this or that. That's just wrong. You know, you go back to 50, 60 years. it was good to have MPs who had lots of different interests. They could bring something to the debate. They knew about logistics.

50:01They knew about agriculture because they were farmers, a lot of them. They knew about the law because they were lawyers. Whereas now you've got a large section of professional politicians who know nothing other than politics and policy and scheming in an abstract way. They don't really have experience of the economy, of the life of the country. And I think it could get worse. And that's why you get these student politicians, essentially. All they've done is be a president of a student union and then become a special advisor and then become a speech writer and then become an MP and then become a minister.

50:39It's kind of crazy. Nigel Farage and reform. Do you think they'll get in? And do you think it would be a good thing if they got in? So I think it's 50-50. We're still far out. anything can happen. I feel that the, the alternative. I mean, the polls say a bit more, don't they? Yeah, but I just, you know, things can, you can see now, I mean, this absurd thing about, oh, you said such and such racist things in the 70s. He was a teenager. They're digging, I mean, that says to me they are desperate to stop it. You know, they are desperate. You know, if you're digging up something that some guy said in 77, you know, when he was a teenager at school and trying to use that, weaponize that, you are desperate.

51:21You've kind of lost every argument. And you're literally just trying to tear this guy down. And that says to me that they are very, very committed, particularly the Guardian and the left, to stopping him. So they're worried. They are, clearly. I mean, why would you say, oh, he said this in 1978? Literally. I mean, you weren't alive then. But, you know, makes it hard. But does anyone, I mean, people said all sorts of crazy things. But we were having a chat. You know, I'm remembers what they said when they were 17 or 21. And also the culture was different The jokes the human the family. So I know people in the city Respectable lawyers lovely people pretty centrist You know, they said all sorts of crazy things that I remember when they were kids You know people did and so to bring that up says to me these people aren't serious They will do anything to stop him.

52:15So there's that left be a conspiracy or agglomeration of interests to stop him. And I also think that, you know, what he's doing is very difficult. It's never happened before, okay? If you look at what Nigel has done, he's created a new party, essentially, and he's on the point, as far as the polls are concerned, of forming a government. That never happens. You know, we've had great Pollock Churchill, Disraeli, Gladstone, whoever you want to name, Thatcher, they all worked within the party. They never created their own party and won an election. They were all part of the system, if you like. So what he's doing is pretty extraordinary.

52:50And that's why I would price it at kind of 50-50, because it is an extraordinary thing that's happening. He could do it. Trump did it. But even Trump took over the Republican Party. He didn't create his own party. And he deliberately didn't, because he had a reform party actually in 2000. But he realized that the best way to actually become president was to join one of the established parties. He just had to work out which one. So what Nigel is doing is extraordinary. And, you know, I'll believe it when I see it. I think a lot of forces who work against him, I think the left are going to go nuts.

53:26And let's see it. Now, do I think it would be a good thing? In some ways, I think it would be a very good thing, because it'll throw open the system. You know, I've talked about the civil service. You talk about, and I said he's got three obstacles, the House of Lords. That's all human rights laws, basically. I mean, broadly, that's their center of gravity. You've got the judiciary, again, which has its own biases, I think. And then you've got the civil service. So he's got these big institutional challenges. And at the moment, he's the only one, his party are the only ones who are going to challenge a lot of those orthodoxies.

54:02I don't think we should abolish all those things. Of course not. But we've got to try and challenge people's thinking. Because whatever's happening isn't working so well. So in a way, I can see why people would vote for them. I think that there are a couple of things, a few things they need to iron out. Like, Nigel, until very recently, was in favor of scrapping the two-child cap. That was a very popular policy. And I think you've got to have individual responsibility at the center of a welfare system. You can't have a situation where people can come to this country, have 10 kids, and expect the state to pay for them all.

54:36I think that's wrong. um and and he then think he quite you know he gets it but then you've got to distinguish between british citizens and other citizens and it's it's a mess so just have a cap um and then i think he's right to say he's got to start thinking about spending but then people will ask him so what are you going to cut and then there'll be scare stories so it's a it's a long road for him but i think that's a way in which you can you can you can shake things up yeah and to be honest with you I thought Kemi did a good job yesterday. I thought she really stuck it to the Labour, to Rachel.

55:11And I'm very interested in, as a Tory, I'm very interested in what the Tories have to say because I think there's potentially some sensible stuff. But it seems to me, to put it very bluntly and simply, you've got a left block, which is Plaid, Labour, Lib Dems, on and off, SMP, Gaza independence. You've got the left greens. And then you've got a right block, which is just Tory and reform. And one of these blocks is going to win. I know who I want to win. I don't know what the configuration of seats will be. But I definitely would rather have them win than a coalition of the left. And if Nigel got in and he called you up and he's like, quasi, come be my chancellor.

55:53He can't afford me.

55:57Even Nigel. But actually, I speak to him. No, but I speak to him. Would you? I speak to him a lot, and I want to feel that I can put some input into the... Yeah, I've said to myself, look, I'm 50. I don't want to get back to the House of Commons or the Parliament immediately. And I've got other things. I'm doing other projects that I'm very engaged with that you know about. So I'm a friendly ear, if you like, and a friendly voice. But I think leave others to do the theatrics of politics. If you could rewind the clock quasi and go back just before you were UK Chancellor, what advice would you give to yourself?

56:35Funnily enough, it was the advice that Liz Truss says that her late majesty gave to her. Pace yourself, which was, I don't know, I knew the Queen a little bit, the late Queen. And she had incredible judgment of people, incredible experience, intuition. and she clearly saw something in Liz that said to her, just pace yourself. And actually Liz was good enough to write that in her book. That's the one thing. And then the second thing is, you know, if you're going to try and reduce taxes, you've got to try and reduce spending. I mean, I might be, I'm not a Reaganite, but even if I were a Reaganite, the markets aren't Reaganites and you've got to try and show some degree of discipline on expenditure.

57:24before they give you the benefit of the doubt on tax cuts. Those are the two bits of advice. If we have a more right-leaning government at the next election, how do we reverse all the damage done? So I think some of the stuff can be done quite quickly. So I would abolish the mansion tax. I think they can do that. Because even according to their figures, it will raise$400 million. I would get rid of that immediately. It's not a huge amount, you know, compared to the$3 billion you're spending on the two-cap, getting rid of a two-cap child or a cap on two children. So you can do that. I think some of the stuff that Nigel said about a flat rate, you know, 300 grand and you're done.

58:04In Italy, it's 200 ,000 euros. So once you pay 200 ,000 euros a year, you're done. You paid it. And I worked out, you don't have to be an Einstein to work it out. You know, if the top rate is 45 % and you're paying 200 ,000, Anyone earning over half a million, which is a lot of money, but anyone earning over half a million is probably incentivized to go to Italy. Now, there are other things, family, lifestyle, language, all of those things. But given the fact that they're mega, mega wealthy people, the£200 ,000 is quite a low. And I think in London, in England, you could charge maybe 50 % more than that.

58:42Anything that would bring in more overseas and stop people leaving. I think people, you know, very wealthy people I know say, if I had to pay$300 ,000 a year to live in it and I was done, I would do that in a heartbeat. So that's one thing you could do. I think you're going to have to get tough on things like, you know, mental disability because the welfare bill isn't, you know, it's not just because people are more disabled. It's that there's a whole raft of people who have mental illness and essentially qualify for disability benefit through their mental illness. Now, I think that should be interrogated much more closely.

59:19Because essentially now it's like we used to have self-certified mortgages. It's almost like that. I'm depressed. Self-cert mental health. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't press the point too much. But, yeah, it seems to me. I mean, it's not very hard to strike yourself off work, is it? Yeah, and also the thing with mental health is that you can't see it. You know, when we brought in disability, you know, we'd had wars and people didn't have arms and they didn't have legs. You could see who was disabled. And then we said, okay, there's mental health, there's mental issues, and we get that. But the problem with that is that you can't prove anything.

59:53I mean, who are you to say to someone who says, I've got mental health issues, I can't work? Oh, just pull your socks up. That's what we would have said 30 years ago, but you can't say that now. And they've tried to, successive governments, us included, have tried to rationalize that and go through a process. because otherwise it is like a self-certifying thing. And that can't be right. Is there anything we can do to bring entrepreneurs here and encourage innovation and productivity and growth and business? All that sort of thing. So I think you've got to have a stable environment. I think you've got to lower taxes.

1:00:30You've got to lower regulation. And I think if you did that for a whole parliamentary term, I think the whole picture would be totally different. Wow. I think it'd be totally different. And then you'd have the momentum. But otherwise, everything gets stuck and it's not moving in the way that we want to see it. Kwasi, thank you very much. Thank you.

1:01:26This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co.uk to learn more. I love you.