In short
Richard Farleigh discusses why UK entrepreneurship and startup funding are worsening, the “entrepreneurial exodus,” and how UK policy (taxes, non-dom changes, incentives) and public services/crime affect business. He also shares practical pitch/presentation advice from his Dragon’s Den experience.
Guest background
Richard Farleigh is an Australian-born entrepreneur and former central bank economist (Reserve Bank of Australia). He says he went through the care system, experienced violence, and has imposter syndrome despite building/being involved with many businesses (he claims ~100). He appeared as a Dragon on BBC’s Dragon’s Den.
Key claims
UK startup funding is “polarized” toward US “billionaire money” and China “government money,” while UK medium-sized businesses struggle to raise capital and must show profits within 3–4 years. He argues tax breaks for entrepreneurs (SEIS/BADR/manager incentives) have been tightened, R&D credits are slow, and employer national insurance is anti-business. He claims the UK is missing opportunity cost by focusing only on wealthy people leaving, not on those who would come. He criticizes the lack of real-time transparency about a claimed “$20 billion hole.”
Notable examples
Levi Roots’ Dragon’s Den pitch (Reggae Reggae Sauce) where Roots made a major numbers mistake but won investment; Farleigh emphasizes “first minute” attention, avoiding numbers on slides, using pictures, handling mistakes calmly, and being animated. He also cites Home House (his private members club) as a sales/marketing lesson.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Challenges Facing UK Entrepreneurs
0:45 to 4:48
Discussion on the difficulties of starting and raising funds for businesses in the UK compared to the US and China.
“So, and they'll, you know, might write a check for 20 million.”
The Exodus of Entrepreneurs from the UK
4:48 to 8:30
Examination of why entrepreneurs are leaving the UK and the implications of this trend.
“And conservatives don't really have the brand that they had.”
The Importance of Attracting Wealth and Talent
8:30 to 14:01
Exploration of the need for the UK to attract wealthy foreigners and entrepreneurs to stimulate the economy.
“And two, surely we've got to change this.”
Reflections on London's Challenges
14:01 to 15:20
Explore Richard's fondness for London contrasted with its current challenges.
“You know, my two favorite, I'm from, you know, I grew up in Sydney.”
Economic Growth and Productivity Insights
15:21 to 18:28
Discussion on the UK’s economic growth, immigration, and productivity per capita.
“So one more final statement on what do we need to do to turn the UK around?”
Remote Work and Career Advancement
18:29 to 20:52
Debate on the impact of remote work on productivity and career progression.
“like booth, isolation booth time, maybe you could be more productive working from home.”
The Role of AI in the Workforce
20:53 to 22:45
Exploration of how AI could affect job roles and productivity in the future.
“Is there anything, you know, has Labour done anything, you know, we probably don't want to go too political, I suppose, but I don't know.”
Effective Selling Techniques
27:03 to 28:01
Insights from Richard on how to sell effectively and engage an audience.
“Should we now spin this into trying to look for some positives?”
The Art of Presentations
28:01 to 29:12
Learn key tips for effective presentations and audience engagement.
“And the first thing is to have a brief message, a very short message.”
Embracing Mistakes in Presentations
29:12 to 30:51
How to handle mistakes during presentations and maintain audience connection.
“I'm like, you know, if that went Dragon Zen, that's not going to make it on the footage, but this is live TV.”
Show all 27 chapters
Visual Aids and Their Impact
30:51 to 32:45
Discover the best practices for using visual aids in presentations.
“You can't just stand like as if we were doing a one-on-one.”
Memorable Pitch Examples
32:45 to 33:50
Discussion on the best pitches from 'Dragon's Den', focusing on Levi Roots.
“And then in the corner, which means nothing to anyone, I might have a little picture of the next slide.”
Analyzing Levi Roots' Success
33:50 to 38:22
Insights into Levi Roots' unique presentation style and its impact on his success.
“You know, it's funny, you know, I backed him and he's more famous than I am.”
Investment Insights from 'Dragon's Den'
38:22 to 41:28
Explore the dynamics of investment decisions and the challenges faced on 'Dragon's Den'.
“So it really is about just reflecting and being yourself and letting people know you a little bit isn't it?”
The Reason for Leaving 'Dragon's Den'
41:28 to 42:00
Richard Farleigh shares his experience and reasoning behind leaving the show.
“Because they want to get an investment offer.”
Investment Decisions and Show Experience
42:00 to 44:28
Learn about the challenges and dynamics of investment decisions on TV shows like Dragon's Den.
“You know, because you don't have much to go on.”
Childhood Trauma and Imposter Syndrome
44:28 to 46:39
Explore Richard's childhood experiences and how they shaped his feelings of imposter syndrome.
“I won't ask you, maybe I should, and you still feel imposter syndrome.”
Overcoming Shame and Understanding Self-Worth
46:39 to 49:16
Discover the journey of reconciling childhood shame and learning to value oneself.
“You know, by then, at that point there were six of us.”
Business as a Coping Mechanism
49:16 to 51:50
Understand how business success can serve as a coping mechanism for past traumas.
“Like all the way I just wanted to be rescued by my mother.”
The Drive for Entrepreneurship
51:50 to 55:09
Learn about the motivations behind entrepreneurship and the role of past experiences.
“There's mostly stories like the ones we've been talking about.”
Common Mistakes of Young Entrepreneurs
55:09 to 56:00
Identify key mistakes that young entrepreneurs make when starting a business.
“So you've created a healthy addiction from the pain in your childhood.”
Understanding Business Viability
56:00 to 57:26
Learn how to assess whether a business idea is viable and the importance of discovery.
“And they go and order stock and they spend money on logos.”
Funding Your Business: To Bootstrap or Not
57:26 to 58:28
Explore the pros and cons of raising external funds versus self-funding a business.
“No expert will tell you if that'll sell or not.”
Traits of Disruptive Entrepreneurs
58:28 to 1:00:44
Discover the characteristics shared by successful entrepreneurs and their journey.
“And also, you may need further funding later.”
The Concept of Disruption
1:00:44 to 1:02:10
Understand what disruption means in business beyond just products.
Richard's New Book and Its Insights
1:02:10 to 1:03:10
Get insights into Richard's new book and the strategies it offers for entrepreneurs.
“easy to read you can pick it up and and jump in wherever you like and it's called humble stumbles Humble.”
Optimism and Opportunities in Business
1:03:10 to 1:05:10
Discuss the role of optimism in entrepreneurship and the potential for opportunities.
“And how you can get so good at something and still every day...”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00The UK is in an unhappy space. What's going on? The Labour Party are bull**** and they're just finding an excuse to put up taxes. Surely we've got to change this. Someone is lying. As a dragon on the den, how do you sell anything to anyone? So the first minute is crucial. Like, that is a huge mistake. Do never do that! Why did you leave? I was kicked off. Really? So the BBC are... Cheeky. Business is kind of like a drug. It's like 120, 130 business. So I think it became like a deal junkie. Money and success, it's a band-aid. went through the care system. I've been a victim of violence. I always had imposter syndrome, but my stake was worth 40 million.
0:34Biggest mistake young entrepreneurs make? I found one thing. Richard, can you still make money in the UK with everything that's going on right now? I think it's getting harder. I'm a bit almost depressed about the startup world in the UK, to be blunt um starting a business now is is is difficult but it in it's almost like it's it's polarized in the world you've got the us and china the us has obviously got what i call billionaire money and the china has got government money and it's almost like leaving china out for a moment but if you go to lunch in the us and you've got a good idea in in some tech business or anything that's going to require money you can do it over lunch you know there's billionaires with their network and their money.
1:24So, and they'll, you know, might write a check for 20 million. Let's just say a tech company or something and go into AI somewhere, you know, promising space. They'll write a check for 20 million over lunch, give or take, you know, and then off you go. And they'll say, don't worry about making a profit. You know, just get market share, just grab market share. And I've termed this expression infinite startups because they're startups, but they're infinite. They don't have to worry about getting a profit. So with this billionaire money looking for a market share, they go off. In the UK, if you start exactly the same business and you're trying to raise 5 million, it's a nightmare.
2:00I've had different companies and you can go through a hundred meetings and they want to see the business plan, obviously, but if you're not making profits within three or four years, they lose interest, then you're another round of funding. And as somebody who starts businesses, the valuation doesn't go up. So, you know, you're hammered on that first five million. That's not a pleasant experience. That's why people don't want to do the first one. And you're also under pressure to make money. And so it's gotten worse and worse and worse. So, you know, I've seen that now with companies I'm involved with, those companies I'm talking to.
2:30Raising money in the UK is just becoming impossible for medium-sized businesses. And there was something I think it published in the newspapers a couple of weeks ago about funding for startups, medium-sized, you know, 20 to 100 people sort of thing. has fallen to a six-year low. It's falling. Now, I bet that's not falling in the US and the UK, sorry, China, where they've got government monies, they'll direct money in different ways through private enterprise, you know, quasi-private enterprise. They'll direct money to the right place to compete in semiconductors or in software or anything like that.
3:03Whereas in the UK and probably other parts of Europe, you're in this middle bit, which is an unhappy space to be. So So I'm actually finding it really pessimistic at the moment. And that's nothing to do with the government or changes in governments. Really? Really? Well, you know, they could toss some bones. The upside is that the cost of, you know, the cost of labor or the cost of smart people here, you know, professional people, it is a lot lower than, say, in the US. So if you want to hire a data scientist, I'm just focusing on tech, but it's the same across a lot of industries. You want to hire a data scientist, for example.
3:38It's a lot cheaper in the UK than it is in the US, almost to a factor of a half. Wow. So that might start to swing things in the right way. But that's only – then you're sort of competing like – almost like being an Asian country. You're competing on price, not on the environment, not on the – you know. Because you want the best, don't you, really? You want the quality. You want the best. Yeah. Well, so you might find – you know, because there's not a lot of stuff going on here at the moment, You might find US companies start to do things here because of the cost advantage. But in terms of funding, which is a big part of starting a business, because it always takes longer and costs more to get it going.
4:14In terms of funding, the UK is in an unhappy space. So sorry to start with such a negative. I think it's good to be realistic because we can look at opportunities once we know where we're really at. So I'd like to find out why. I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years and I've definitely found it harder, harder to hire good staff who really are career focused as opposed to well-being and work from home focused. I found a big shift there, found a major shift. And you can't just blame labour on this, haven't been in that long. And conservatives don't really have the brand that they had. You know, low tax, supposed to be good for business and enterprise.
4:56But definitely over the last 10 years, more and more tax increases. National insurance, for example, that increase cost me 100 grand in the 100 staff that I have. But that wasn't a thing. It was just another excuse to stick a tax in under the radar. So what are the reasons that the UK are not the hub for business and entrepreneurship? Is it lack of talent? Is it being suppressed by maybe a more socialist government? is there a disdain for entrepreneurs in the UK by our government? What's going on? I think it could be all those things, you know, as much as I do. I think, you know, when we call it like the previous government, the conservative government, I mean, are they conservative?
5:40Were they conservative? You know, all the little things like, you know, tax breaks, they were tightened up, you know, benefits for managers, you know, tax option schemes, anything, incentive schemes, SEIS, CIS, you know, things like that. They're all, you know, and even getting, you know, I don't know if the audience are familiar, but they're just breaks that you get for starting a business. And the accepted band of like one in 10 startups working may be optimistic. Oh, so you think it's even less. It might be less now in the UK. So it might be one in 20, one in 50. Yeah, in the UK. And we have to have some reward for that risk.
6:13Yeah, so you have to take, you're taking a bet, you know, and it's a long-term bet and it's highly illiquid. You know, you put in 10 ,000 pounds, 100 ,000 pounds, a million pounds, whatever you're putting into a startup, you've got no liquidity. So you're not going to get that back in a hurry, where if you buy shares in Google, you know, you can get them back, you know, so you've got no liquidity and you've got that terrible odds. So all those things that change the odds, you think, you know, like tax breaks and things like that have a big effect. Um, and, you know, if you can't motivate managers by giving them, you know, I've got a company, you know, or I know about a company where their prices fall and they've got the managers, you've got to keep them motivated, but their share prices fall.
6:49And, but changing that option scheme you know just things like that it's it's nothing is easy it's not like oh we really want you to do that you know here's some and getting you know when you when you've got a company which is doing r &d you get a tax credit so they're shutting that out though yeah well you get a tax credit which can be quite significant so if you've got a tech company or you know software company uh you get a lot of that back from the government a year later yeah because you paid tax on r &d which is fine but getting that back in a hurry and getting that back and without without some inquiry.
7:19You can't put it in your business plan, say, okay, we're going to get, we're going to get that hundreds of thousands back or 10, whatever the number is. We're going to get that back in February. It may not come, you know, it's just things like that. There's nothing like, oh, we really want you to do this. You know, we really want you to, uh, so, and there, there's no new tax breaks and the old ones has sort of been chipping away at even tax deductions. You know, if you invest in a bunch of things and you lose money before you make it, you know, you're not going to get your money back on the ones you know, You know, I mean, there's stuff like that and income, you know, putting money in a company, taking it out.
7:53You know, it's just not easy. There's nothing. You don't feel like you're in Singapore, for example. So I'm going to ask you this. Why are you still here? Because now, get this, you probably know this, but every year since lockdown, double the number of millionaires have left the UK. Entrepreneurs are leaving in their droves. Most of my friends, if not all, are entrepreneurs. and many of them are at the 20 to 50 million level, but many of them are at the billion level. And two of my friends have recently just left who are billionaires and everyone I talk to, they're either on the way out or they're planning their way out.
8:30So one, why are you still here? And two, surely we've got to change this. I love business. You're a champion for business. You were on Dragon's Den. You were like the face of entrepreneurship. And it seems so sad. for me that this is going on it is and i'm the same as you i know people who are leaving um you know for different reasons for the you know for the tax reasons for for you know inheritance tax you know in australia i'm australian in case you didn't pick up my lovely accent you know there's no inheritance tax you know that's one reason i've told my kids if i get sick you know look not too good just get me on a plane to sydney as fast as you can try to get me to die in sydney you know um but you know there's inheritance tax you know but even buying and selling a home you I live in a substantial, nice home.
9:17I'm a successful guy. But to buy and sell it, to downsize, there's 10 % of the government just to move. So I'm not going to sell it. It's just – anyway, to answer your question, I know people who are leaving, the same as you. Some are Jewish people, friends of mine, who live in North London, and they don't feel it's very friendly here. And they've probably paid tens or hundreds of millions in taxes. He started a company which went to a billion back in 2000. A billion? A billion. Wow. Back when a billion was a billion. Yeah. Still a billion. But, yeah, you know, but he started companies. He's extremely successful.
9:51Left school at 16. Extremely smartness, you know. But he's leaving with his family because he doesn't feel the tax environment and everything here is friendly. But also he's Jewish and he doesn't feel it's friendly. But let's not get into that. And then I've got other friends who are leaving because of the non-dom thing. But, you know, I used to be – I think because they're shutting that down and making that harder to do. Yeah. And, you know, the inequality of wealth has grown. So there's no doubt that people who are worse off are more worse off relative to the best of. But it's not the entrepreneur's fault, is it?
10:25No. But so that's a problem, right? So you can understand, you know. I used to say to, you know, my kids, if I was a young lawyer living in Liverpool, you know, from a working class family, and I wouldn't be able to live in London, you know, so I can understand that sentiment. I can understand the sentiment of wanting to level things up. But on the other hand, something like non-DOMs, it's almost like you pencil off this area in London. We call it Mayfair or whatever you want to call it, Knightsbridge. Pencil that off. Don't worry about anyone. They're not us. But they pay a huge amount of VAT.
10:59They bring in jobs. Let them go and buy expensive handbag. Let them live here. Let them buy that house for$20 million because that's$2 million goes in and that pays for a lot of the rest of us. that pays for a lot of hospitals, a lot of schools. Let's just drop the envy on that because, and I know it looks bad, but you're encouraging wealthy foreigners. And ironically, while the UK is killing off the non-dom thing, and I'm no longer a non-dom here, so I'm not speaking for myself. But for other countries like Italy, Portugal, Malta, they're encouraging, they're doing, introducing virtually the non-dom scheme.
11:38So you've got to think the UK has had this scheme for tens, I don't know, 50 years, whatever long, right? And that's attracted a lot of people. And now they're turning it off. Well, all the other countries are turning it on. You've got to think, hang on. And we're not competing. You're not giving breaks to an English person, a Brit. You're attracting wealthy foreigners. Now, I'm a wealthy foreigner, right? But why not attract those people? And also, you've just got to suck up. Okay, it might be distasteful them driving a Ferrari around Knightsbridge or whatever. But on the other hand, they probably spend hundreds of thousands a year, pay a lot of VAT.
12:14Maybe they create jobs. If they're entrepreneurs, they are creating jobs. So you just allow that to happen. Let's get the cake bigger. I don't want to talk like a classic Tory, but let's get the cake bigger, particularly from foreigners. So the whole non-dom thing and scaring people away, I think is a mistake. And if other countries are bringing it in, just bring it in. find other ways to level up the wealth inequality. And the other thing is, I used to be an economist. I was a central bank economist, the Reserve Bank, like the Bank of England here in Australia. So that's where I started. And I've never seen any analysis here.
12:48All the analysis is, oh, if we hit entrepreneurs and we introduce taxes and non-doms, how much is it going to cost when those people leave? All we hear about, as you mentioned, and I've been mentioning, is people leaving, right? But where's the analysis of the people who came, who aren't coming? Where's the opportunity cost? So I was living in Monaco, as one does. I'm a working class kid. I grew up in a, you know, went through an orphanage and care home. So, you know, I'm not ashamed to admit, you know, that I've worked hard and made money. Right. But so I was living in Monaco and I came here, you know, as part of the non-dom thing originally.
13:22And I started a hundred businesses. Wow. If I'd have been there now, I wouldn't come to the UK. So the Treasury might be doing the numbers, oh, it's okay if 50 millionaires leave, that's okay. But what about the 100 who are going to come in? So the price is not 50 leaving, the price is 150. You see what I'm saying? I do see, yeah. The opportunity cost, what you're missing out on is all those people. I don't know any, do you know any people moving here? No. Are there any entrepreneurs moving here? So that's what, so I know myself. I'm in online communities with global entrepreneurs. No one's talking about coming to the UK.
13:56So that's, you know, the place is closed. Yeah, the place is closed. And then add to that things like the terrible public services that used to be good and the crime and the lack of convictions in central London. Add that to the mix. This really makes me sad. Well, you know, I love London. You know, my two favorite, I'm from, you know, I grew up in Sydney. My two favorite cities in the world are Sydney and London, you know, and for five, you know, five good things for Sydney, five amazing things for London. I love London. It's like a New York, but it's low rise. You know, it doesn't, you're not honking taxis all night long like you got in Manhattan.
14:33You know, you can see the sun. There's lots of park area. The people are lovely. I love English people. Good banter with the Aussies. You know, sports culture. You know, the food is now good. But, you know, like, you know, and I just love being here. So I really am reluctant to move. And it's not, you know, life isn't all about money. But if I was focused purely on money and business opportunities, I'd probably go to the US or somewhere else, even Portugal, you know. Wow. So that's a sad thing for the UK. Do you remember when people from overseas could come to the UK and there'd be no VAT on goods they would buy?
15:06And then, bang, they slap the VAT on. So we've stopped all the tourism. and aren't we supposed to be one of the biggest tourist nations in the world and our monarchy and how that was a great brand for the world and now that's in a complete mess. So one more final statement on what do we need to do to turn the UK around? I think there were some GDP numbers the other day and they're talking about growth didn't go up. I mentioned I was an economist before and growth didn't go up much. but I'd love to see the growth per person. So the growth is not adjusted. No, but you've got to find out how many people there are actually here because I imagine they're suppressing the immigration figures.
15:48Yeah, so it can feel worse off even if GDP goes up, even if total size of the cake goes up, if there's more people and more demand for... So is it per capita you're saying? Yeah, I'm saying per capita, yeah. So productivity, you know, the output per person, I don't want to sound too techie, you know, economy, me but but uh you know the productivity is not great so why hasn't that in in an era where you've got ai now but before that you had the tech explosion i mean in terms of capability you know why isn't the output per person going up you know something cultural i don't know there's something you know um and i don't know if working from home is that's going to be another hit to it i don't know you know can people be productive working at home like the same in the office i saw the ex-head of Google, he basically said, you miss promotion opportunities when you work from home.
16:37I've never really been a mega fan of work from home. Can you have the culture, the dynamism, the promotion opportunities when you work from home? Well, you know, I, you know, I used to run a, you know, before I got in business, I was an economist, then an investment banker, you know, so I ran a trading area and, you know, half of it, you know, I'd learn from people more junior, junior to me, but half it's by the coffee thing or just going out for lunch or, you know, and you have someone sitting next to me, they would ask me questions, but they probably wouldn't phone me up when I asked me a question.
17:07But they just, I'll just have a go at that or I'll talk. What are you up to? The value of that I just think is – I guess on the other hand, and there's always – if there's a commute cost and it's expensive here to get around on a train, the commute cost, if you save that time and you save the time, then maybe there's a balance. If you don't work Fridays, but you're saving two hours commute and you're saving that amount of money and you do put the effort in, as long as there's enough cultural exchange. If you've got four days a week, maybe you can still get your promotion. You can still get your exchange of ideas and you save a bit of money by not coming in.
17:47I don't know. I don't know. Do you think people work when they're at home? I think we all need accountability. and I was having a chat with one of my staff members who kind of thought that you know I had it easier because I work for myself and I said no no I'm accountable to my business partner my board all my customers the three million followers I have on social media and I'm just as accountable as you are to me I'm accountable to more people and the thing you don't have from work from home is as much accountability because it's easier to take the dog for a walk it's easier to relax and I just think human nature is to take the easy route.
18:25So I would say if I'm going to try and be balanced, I would say if you're a hardcore coder or you need focused, like booth, isolation booth time, maybe you could be more productive working from home. But if you want career progression, if you're creative, creatives need to be around people. Like you said, catching those random conversations about things going on, I would say no. What about the one other positive, I suppose, is, you know, if you could reduce the number, the office space, you know, that, you know, I don't know if there was hot desks and things, you know, you know, people have one day off a week, but it can move around.
19:03So you only need you need less desks and maybe less expense. I'm just trying to, you know. Is it not about wanting to get productivity up? Yes. This is the thing that really frustrates me. Labour seem to say nothing about productivity or the old school hard work or working our way through these difficult times. Yes. Yeah. Work is a four letter word. N-D-E-N-K. Yes. It's like work is the antichrist. Yeah. I started out by saying, you know, in a world where we've had a technology explosion, now we've got AI helping us particularly. You know, that should push up, you know, that should make people more productive, shouldn't it?
19:42I mean, you can do a website almost, just go on a ChatGPT and almost do a website or a coding for you. So that's got to start to come out in the numbers somewhere, hasn't it? I mean, you know, I did a logo. A company of mine did a logo. Just boom. They just got it off the freaking chat. You know, they would have paid five grand to get a logo design. Now, you know, or a business plan. You know, so that's got to filter through, hasn't it? A sooner or later product, that's got to help. But if it doesn't, then something's wrong. I think it will, but it will cost those people who don't take work seriously their job.
20:12because if it can do their job for them, why are you going to keep them? If you know Labor are going to be banging up national insurance for the employer, what you can do is go, well, why do I want to employ loads more people? Yeah, well, we're venturing onto AI. I mean, maybe all this conversation will be surpassed by, you know, what's going to happen within the next five years when a lot of things are redefined. So maybe all this tinkering that we're talking about productivity, Maybe it's just going to be half the white-collar work won't be needed. I mean, I don't know. People should be scared about that.
20:47I believe they should be scared about what Labour are trying to do, and I believe they should be scared about their jobs and do something about it. Yeah, I don't know. Is there anything, you know, has Labour done anything, you know, we probably don't want to go too political, I suppose, but I don't know. Has Labour done anything anti-business in particular? They may not be doing any pro-business. Their main tax grab in the recent budget was national insurance for the employer. Yes. So that's pretty anti-business. And if you look at the balanced reporting afterwards, now you've had some time after, like on balanced publications that take both sides, everyone seems to agree it would have been better being spread on income for the employer and the employee.
21:28But they couldn't do that because they said they weren't going to tax the workers. So I think it's very anti-business to charge national insurance. Well, as you say, there's 100 ,000 straight on your bottom line. Straight on your bottom line. Yeah, and you're going to employ less people for that. And where are you going to look at your cost-cutting? Yeah, and if you've got AI that might do it instead, you're going to think twice because there's no NIC for AI. No, for AI, exactly. So it might be, you know, I don't know. What's Entrepreneur's Relief they've come for? Entrepreneur's Relief, I mean, they call it BADR now, don't they?
22:02But they've chopped that and chopped that and chopped that and chopped that down and they came for it again and they've increased the tax. So less benefit for being an entrepreneur. So it's kind of same old labor, but they did it because the Tories stuffed it up. That's the story. Now, okay, I've got a point about that. Someone is lying. Someone is lying. Really? In politics? Yeah, that's unusual. I think maybe more than a few, more than one. But someone is lying, okay? Because as I said, I used to work for the central bank, you know, and there's a treasury department. The government should not be allowed to tell us about this$20 billion hole.
22:39That should be reported independently by the Treasury along the way. Were we all duped? Have the Tories duped us into this$20 billion? Have the Tories duped us into this$20 billion hole without us knowing? We vote. We get a say in that. We're shareholders. Do we get a say, though? If that is true, we should be told that along the way. This is big numbers. $20 billion. We're not talking about someone who's lost a freaking thing in the corner. This is$20 billion. So either we get told along the way or the Labor Party are bullshitting and they're just finding an excuse to put up taxes. So which one is it?
23:18And we shouldn't –$20 billion is too big to miss. Sorry, the Treasury Department, the government and the Treasury Department should be obliged to tell us – I'm going to bang my water. I'm going to get excited about this. But they should be obliged to tell us the real number in real time. You know, six monthly up that, you know, like they know. How can the Treasury Department, there's some job losses. If they know about 20 billion hole, those economists, and I was one, you know, should be fired. AI wouldn't miss a 20 billion hole. So, but you see what I'm saying? Someone is lying. I know it sounds, but someone is lying.
23:54Either Labor are using it as a typical tax and spend rubbish or the Tories have hidden mismanagement. Well, maybe both. Maybe it's$10 billion each. Maybe both. But we should, don't you agree, we should be told this. It's like imagine you're running your company and then you change the CEO and then they come, oh, the accountant comes up, oh, we've got to do this. And you're like, what? I want real-time information or, you know, a month or two, $20 billion, someone's, you see what I'm saying? So that's the problem. So if Labor are just using that as an excuse, then that's really bad right if there is easier to blame the previous administration yeah but they shouldn't get away with it when we vote we should know the real situation if the tories do that then kick them out right and and if there isn't this 20 billion hole then no we don't want this we don't want these tax rises there's a 2.7 trillion hole isn't there in the government debt really well you know but it has you know you know if you look at an economy we have a lot of assets You know, like the railway system is an, you know, like, so it's like a business, you know, on the balance sheet.
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24:53You know, you've got more than 2.7 trillion. There's a lot of infrastructure, isn't it? There's a whole, you know, I don't know what, if you value the entire UK economy, you know, the hard, you know, the assets in it, it'd be worth, God knows. Yeah. Even Elon Musk couldn't buy it. You know, it'd be worth, you know, so you can have some debt. It's just the ability to finance that debt, you know. But, you know, the governments anywhere don't seem to be able to making hard decisions. And I think that's probably why Trump, without going into whether that's good or bad, I think that's probably what people find refreshing about that, that someone's going to do something and maybe Elon Musk, you know, he's coming in to shake up the cost side.
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26:47Now remember, do not invest unless you're prepared to lose all the money you invest. This is a high risk investment and you should not expect to be protected if something goes wrong. This is not investment advice and it is not recommendation to buy or sell any particular digital asset. Should we now spin this into trying to look for some positives? Yeah. And by the way, I think this stuff is really important to talk about. Yeah. Okay, so as a dragon on the den, seeing hundreds of pictures, how do you sell anything to anyone? Well, I'm not a natural. You know, I started a business here called Home House.
27:21Have you been there? It's like a very successful. You haven't been there. You get in a cab now, you say Home House. It's a beautiful Georgian masterpiece. You know, huge. Like, I don't know, it must be 60 ,000 square feet. It's got a gym, it's got restaurants, but it's a Georgian masterpiece. It's got the ornate ceilings. I must have been there. It's like going into Palace of Versailles. Right. And it's a private members club, but it's a casual dress. The reason I'm mentioning that is because even though I was a main owner, the management after a while stopped me selling it, like selling memberships because I'm not a salesman.
27:53You know, I'd go in there with friends or people I knew and I'd feel bad asking them for money. And my friends would say, oh, don't worry, just come in for nothing, you know, because you charge membership fees. Yeah. Anyway, what I have learned about presentations and selling is because I've done, like you, I've done some public speaking and TV. And the first thing is to have a brief message, a very short message. I'm sure you're the same. When I go to presentations, sometimes I go to business presentations with spreadsheets and all the rest of it. You zone out. Everyone zones out sometime. There's no way, even over five minutes, unless you're listening to us and we're very interesting to listen to.
28:29you know, that you will pay attention, you know, so within the first minute, get like a question in their mind or something exciting in their mind. Don't start out when I was a little boy and you know, like sometimes I get emails asking for investment. Starts out, well, my background is this, I used to like bicycles and you know, I'm like, I'm not going to read this. It's like, it should be like, do you want to change the world in the bicycle market? You know, that's, it's got to be, and why? And the sooner you get that out, so the first minute is crucial. The first minute you have to grab their attention right so that's the first thing and and you know get that out really quick uh another another one is is to uh embrace the butterflies so i found when i've done public speaking i've probably like you have probably you know i've done hundreds now of after dinner speeches and stuff like that uh or lectures and and i find if i'm feeling flat if i'm not nervous it's normally i don't enjoy it i'm just like yeah i'm like it's so tedious for me and it's probably for the flex my performance whereas you've got to be a bit like today i'm a little bit got a bit of butterflies but i'm not nervous enough to like you know uh so have some butterflies don't worry about having butterflies uh have you another thing is uh i used to go on a matthew right show you know it's a live it was a live tv show here which did very well million audiences live and and we used to review the news in the morning and uh there was one morning it was the middle of summer i don't know why that window opened somewhere and we review it and this is live tv with a million people watching a live audience and somehow some wind came through and all our newspapers went flying with the thing.
29:57Well, this is fucked. Sorry. This is a problem. I'm like, you know, if that went Dragon Zen, that's not going to make it on the footage, but this is live TV. And they go, and he goes, oh, look at that. They were having fun. I'm like, and it just reminded me, and it was fine. You know, just pick it up, you know. But it just reminded me of how you react, if you're giving a presentation or, you know, I think that's what we're talking about. If you're giving a presentation or a pitch or something and something goes wrong, like you mix up a number or you, or you, you know, you do your fly's undone, whatever, you know, how you react is the audience will react the same way.
30:32So if I'm really embarrassed and I go, Oh my God, I've, I've missed up my numbers. They feel awkward and it's bad for everybody. You know, it distracts, you know, but if I go, ah, sorry, that number was wrong. Let's start again. Oh, hang on. I've got the wrong, you know, sometimes your slides don't work and you're like, Oh, hang on. And they're fine as long. But if you're like, Oh no. So they react like you do. And then another thing is probably to animate, animate yourself because it tends to, even just standing up, you know, I'm not a big guy, but if you're standing up in front of particularly in a big audience, you've got to be more animated and speak maybe a little bit more forcefully or loudly than you normally would or use your hands.
31:08You've got to be a bit more expressive. You can't just stand like as if we were doing a one-on-one. You know, if we were doing one-on-one, I wouldn't necessarily be, you know, but you've got to be like that. So that's, that's probably another thing. And when you give me a pitch, I think as well, don't put fricking words on it or numbers on the screen. Like that is a huge mistake that will kill your presentation. Wow. Right. The number of times that they go up and they start talking about these numbers, everybody, me included, is like, what's that number? Okay. What's that? What's that say? Right.
31:38So you're reading that. No one can do, you know, I'm a chess player. I can play multiple games of chess at the same time, but I cannot listen and look at, look at this. Right. So that's kill. Do never do that. right maybe one word you know if we let's go back what we're talking about bicycles bike don't have in 1652 the number of bikes was this and the number of that and that like the graph is going to do that in year four we're going to do that i haven't got a clue what he's saying or if i do i'm like why is that there it's just horrible so no put pictures up what i do when i give a presentation is put pictures up and if you want to talk about bicycles it's a picture of a bike that's it and then i don't use notes without you know i talk for maybe 45 minutes but I don't use, I'm giving away my little secrets here, but if I don't, if I don't, I don't use a, I don't use a script, you know, uh, I just talk off script, but I know what I'm talking about.
32:27You know, I think I do, but, but I have, I put up this and I go through, cause I've had a hundred businesses. I've got a lot of different ones I can talk about, you know, and I've done enough speaking that I know which ones are easy to talk about or which ones people like to hear about versus the ones which are too hard to tell, you know, anyway, so I will have a picture of whatever I'm talking about, if it was bicycles. And then in the corner, which means nothing to anyone, I might have a little picture of the next slide. As your own prompt. As my own prompt. So if the next thing I was going to talk about was bubble gum, my bubble gum business, I've got a little picture of maybe a bubble gum, or I may even just have a little B.
33:00Yeah. Or a BB for bubble gum, BG. Yeah. I might even have BG, which means nothing to anyone. It's not going to – and then I go, okay, that's what I talk about next. Yeah. And so because sometimes in the middle of it you might go, So I use pictures. So that's a big no-no I would emphasize. Do not put numbers up on the screen. Put pictures and maybe little prompts for yourself. And don't read a speech. That's a killer. But apart from actually selling something, you know, I don't know, you know, enticing someone into, you know, that's a sort of salesmanship. But in terms of pictures, they are very useful tips that I've learned from experience.
33:40So I find them useful. Thank you. That was great. And what about the best pitch you've ever seen on Dragon's Den? You know, funnily, you know, I did Reggae Reggae Sauce. You did, Levi, yeah. He's been on the show. Has he been on your show? Yeah, years ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, you know, I backed him and he's more famous than I am. And he gets to, I love Levi. Does that piss you off? And he speaks at business conferences. I'm like, hmm, I must have learned a lot in the meantime. You know, he's lovely. He'd laugh. He would laugh, you know. Yeah. And, you know, oddly enough, he embraced some of those things that I was just talking about.
34:13So, you know, I don't know if it was a while ago, but it's quite a viewed episode on Dragon's Den. The reggae reggae. I think it's the most viewed one. Yes. And so he came on, he brought his guitar on, singing, got your music in your food for me, I got the reggae reggae. And he came on and he'd been sitting there for two days. You're not allowed to see the set, not allowed to see us. And he'd been sitting there for two days waiting for his slot. In the meantime, he'd broken his guitar string. So the BBC apparently told him not to use his guitar, and he's like, I can't do it without the guitar, and he insisted, which was a big move.
34:44So then he got his – and he came on singing. So that was a nice – in a way, we're talking about that first minute. That was something you don't get. You're sitting there filming for week after week, and suddenly you see something like that. It's a mood lightener. And then also just the way he reacted, like when we said, how come you've got such a cool name like Levi Roots? and he goes, well, it's really Keith Graham, but I just prefer Levi Roots. And he laughs. So we laugh. Whereas if he's like, oh, well, actually, it's not my name. So we reacted like that. But the ultimate was when I go, well, Levi, and he's waving an order around.
35:16So again, I've got no idea how many, and I'm pointing as if he's over there. But I've got no idea how much sauce he sells. But you know as well as I do, when an order, a verification that a product will sell is very valuable. So if you come on, I've got an order. like you know I don't know anything about sauce if someone serious is going to buy it that gives me a lot of comfort so he's waving around this order and I've got you know and he's been selling it for Notting Hill Carnival for years and years but I don't think he's had that much success to that point and he's waving around this order I'm like and I'm used to leaders being Australian and I'm a numbers guy I'm going hang on this sounds like two leaders per person in the United Kingdom this sounds it sounds like it's not quite right I'm like and uh so so I said so you know I It's on the film.
36:02I said, Levi, I think you're at by a factor of 1 ,000 to 1 on your numbers. Now, this is the epitome of what I was talking about before. Levi, when something like that happened, and that's probably the biggest mistake I ever saw on the den, when something like that happens, normally it would be, okay, Levi, whoever it was, would start shaking and embarrass as hell. That's obviously the end of that. right and then off get up stop wasting my time you know peter would get stuck right into him you know what i just get off and uh he's just like oh yeah yeah any other questions i'm like who is just you know who is this guy right and as i say reacting like that made us react like that so instead of me going instead of peter or whoever going you're an idiot we go he obviously doesn't care so why should we but it was around about that time so to me that was an amazing by accident an amazing presentation because he did everything right he had presentation he gave out the sauce to each of us to try but even then that doesn't mean much i'd have to have blind tasting you know to do like a wine tasting i'd want to have 10 10 different sauces i don't know what they taste like and taste that so even that and but duncan was out straight away because he doesn't like it anyway anyway but you'd have something like that but he he's his initiation like with the guitar the song, you know, smiles, his hair, his look, you know, and then he came out, he gave everyone a product and then just being so nonchalant about mistakes and like, you know, and like that.
37:33And that was to me was the best presentation sort of by accident. But, but, uh, so I've got jotting down on my note about my notes about, about him. And it was like a Eureka moment because there's no way you're going to invest in this source. I mean, sorry, you know, Levi, I don't think you, you know, you know, but I'm like, the product is not the source. the product is this guy this guy's a product anyone love him how can you not love levi and like and also you know this is going to be shown for 15 minutes on bbc you know prime time tv with five million people watching like this guy's a product and i wrote it on my pad i've still got it yeah the product is not the source the product is him you know and therefore invest you know so it was like that you know and so so for that reason and that's a funny reason he's the best presentation and that changed his life it did and it's interesting that he probably made the biggest mess up of numbers on the entire show to get it out by a factor of a thousand but yet he still got the money and you do wonder if you had a time machine if he didn't mess that up that made him more likable yeah and somewhere those mistakes made me like him right and if i hadn't liked him yeah and peter jumped on the back of it so we split it that investment but if i don't think peter would have invested if i didn't invest so if i hadn't have suddenly decided i like this guy but if he hadn't made the mistakes maybe I wouldn't have liked him.
38:48So it really is about just reflecting and being yourself and letting people know you a little bit isn't it? Right yeah yeah I love that story because it is easy to get yourself all nervous and hit up and sometimes it feels like business is really serious and that's why I love his story. Can we go through the numbers on that then? What the 10 ,000 the numbers on what? On the investment. Yeah. So how much did you put in? You know I think it was 20 ,000 each I think it was 40 ,000 between the two of us. Okay, so you put 20 grand in. And how much of a share of the business did you get? Again, you're testing my, I think we had 40%.
39:21I think we put in 20. But, I mean, it's easy for people to look it up, and I'm probably wrong. But it was something like that. It was something like 20%. You know, at the time, it was like, yeah, let's give him some money. Right, so for you, that was not a lot of money? Not relative to the amount you're supposed to invest, no. And how much did that investment make you? Well, I sold out early. How early? Probably wrong. Right, how early? wrongly well certainly wrongly yeah uh because levi and bless his soul he he then wanted to go the us and i'm like you know i'm like our advantage is here in the uk yeah and i know uh i have it uh i call this thing the one percent myth you know like uh oh yeah when they think they take one percent of the market yeah you can get one every you can sell one chinese to have one toothbrush to every chinese you know one percent myth and i thought okay if we just sell one bit of sauce to one every one yeah i thought you know and even boots had failed going to trying to get into the US.
40:13You know, a lot of, it's a great line. Brits and British companies are going to the US super hard, isn't it? Yeah. And, you know, we have to be honest, you know, Levi got that big leg up because people knew who he was. Yeah. So for that reason, I'm out. Right. Now, for that reason, I sold out. And I probably shouldn't say because it's probably company confidential, but it was a nice return. But you got a good X return. Yeah. A big X return? A big X, yeah. If I could get that X on everything, I'd be out there doing Xs. So was it more than 10X? I can't say. Yeah. But, you know, you got the idea.
40:42Okay. Right. Yeah, because then the next question is, was it more than 15? I've got kids. I'll stop. Was it more than 10X? I'll stop. Okay, great. Because 10X is, I guess, a big return. What was the biggest deal you did in the den? Reggae was the biggest, put it this way, it paid for all my others. Right. And, you know, I made a profit out of Dragon's Den, if you want to look at it that way. Right. And that one paid for all the others? Yes. So did all the others lose? I think they did, yeah. Yes, they did, yeah. Wow. And one didn't proceed. And just for the avoidance of doubt, the one that didn't proceed had nothing to do with me.
41:17I tried to get it. It was bad for me that it didn't proceed. But one thing I will say about it. And it fell down negotiating afterwards. Yeah, I gave them a lot of help and then they pulled out. Right. And also, you're always at the risk that people want it coming on for publicity and then just getting the investment and then not taking it. Because they want to get an investment offer. So they go and use it as leverage somewhere else. There was criticism in the newspapers about deals not getting done. but that the rate of deals getting done was very typical for reaching you know if you and i reach an agreement now on some business that i've got or whatever then you know when you look at it oh no it's not quite what i thought or you know and i i did one on dragon stem whether we're a young guy i don't think it was his fault um you know i asked him you had a patent he said he had a patent i asked me had any debt he had no debt and i asked me had stock and in each of those three cases he gave the wrong answer so when i went to invest there isn't a patent you know and there isn't stock and there's money i'm like well it's not the deal uh so you and also as we were saying before you do get some people come in want to do a deal for investment to get the 15 minutes on the show but then with that fame they can drop out and get a higher price elsewhere cheeky yes so cheeky but i think i think i think the rate of of you know given you don't have those benefits we talked about being able to google something or being able to research the person or the product you know um the rate is you know the rate of getting deals done or success is pretty good Yeah.
42:37You know, because you don't have much to go on. You're sitting there, you've got maybe 20 minutes to make a decision about investing in someone. Yeah. And why did you leave? Did you leave? I was kicked off. Really? Unceremonious. No, it was kicked off nicely. Why? Which was, and then all the press, there was press speculation. I mean, I don't really want to, you know, I don't want to, it was a very good experience for me. I really enjoyed it. But, you know, because they wanted to racially rebalance the show and they were brought on James Caan. And that was a newspaper speculation. Do you think that was true?
43:11I've got no idea. And I don't want to. I'm not saying that's true. I'm just saying that was speculation. I mean, I was surprised because I was told I was the most popular dragon. Right. And that I had, oddly enough, I was making so many offers. I was determined to make offers, even if it was a long way away from what they wanted, because I wanted, you know, there was a price for something, but it may not be what you want. Yeah. So I was making a lot of offers and, you know, they were very happy with me. So I was surprised. So I don't, the story about the rebalancing might make sense, but you know, in, in, it's a long time ago and I'm like, it was only good for me.
43:46Um, you know, I, I always had that, you know, talking about businesses, it's like being like an artist, you know, if you like, you know, you, I don't know if you ever feel the same, but like, okay. If you, not that I'm a painter, but if you painted something saying that you're good at it, you know, like saying you're good at business, business is, it's not, it's not, it's a moving thing like it's not you know how like i never felt i always felt i always had imposter syndrome really i'm giving my opinion but but what do i know so you've you've had a hundred companies yes and you still feel imposter syndrome yeah and don't you have don't you find it elusive there's no like you know it's you know there's no i never get so that's you know obviously you know there's sort of rules of thumb strategies in my book not to hire not to you know not to spend too much but you know you know when I was on Dragon's Den I'd go in a restaurant and the owner would come up and say oh can you give me some suggestions about my business I'm like you know way more about your business than I do I'll never know you know so but also because of my background you know I had a tough childhood you know I always had that imposter syndrome anyway so I never felt that comfortable about sitting there in my chair and saying you're that's a good business that's a bad business that's really fascinating that someone who was on Dragon's Den the most popular person on Dragon's Den, have a hundred companies, made probably hundreds of millions.
45:06I won't ask you, maybe I should, and you still feel imposter syndrome. Yeah, and oddly, I don't think the others had that at all. No. You know, just to be... So what did they have that you didn't? Why did they believe in themselves more than you? You know, I went through the care system and, you know, I was in an orphanage for a while, taking away from my parents, so it was quite traumatic. At what age were you taken away? When I was three. Wow, do you remember anything about your parents? Yeah, I remember, you know, I remember, you know, leaving my mother and, you know, and we were, I mean, we had to be taken away.
45:37We were, we were not in good shape. Right. And then, and I remember the orphanage, you know, where it was actually a girl's, because I was a little boy, I was in the girl's, you know, home. And my sisters were there, because I'm one of 11, but, so I had sisters there, but they weren't 11. So were you all taken away? Yeah, we're all taken away. And we were in the outback of Victoria, of New South Wales, and we were put on a train. Wow. You know, I spent the night in the hospital. You know, they took us from my mother. But we lived in a tent. I know this sounds like one of those comedies, you know.
46:11Right. But we lived in – my father was a sheep shearer, you know, so we travelled around just from town to town. And he was a good worker but sort of alcoholic and violent. But he wasn't – and we just had so many children. I mean, 11 kids and we didn't have a home. So we lived in two tents and in a truck and we'd drive around. And my older sister, Betty, who's like not much more than a year older than me, she was sleeping in a box and I was in a little thing on the tent. But we were undernourished and the police had come and told our parents that they were going to take us. You know, by then, at that point there were six of us.
46:46Long story, they'd given away kids to other families in the outback. So you were all split. So the six of us were there. And then so they came and took us, which was, you know, my mother was distraught, but my father was, you know, uh, and then we ended up and then I was in a home, but the home was so cruel. This is, you know, I'm 64. This is in the early sixties, mid sixties. And, um, you know, so cruel, you know, like there's been books written about just how bad, you know, so my sisters could hear me crying. They weren't allowed to come in, you know, like, like who, who would do that? Yeah.
47:17Like, you know, that doesn't sound like a, but when I think of it, sometimes that sort of imagine them, imagine me, you know, like, you're just taking away from your mother and you know, you can't see each other. You know, I feel sorry for that little boy. You know, I didn't know that. I kind of remember, you know, the feelings of it all. But when my sisters told me that, it really made me fricking who would do that. But that's a nice thing that you can feel sorry for that little boy. Cause I think a lot of people can't have that connection with their childhood. Can they? Cause I, I, my therapist has been not seen her recently, but she kept trying to get me to love that little boy.
47:51And I found it so fucking hard. I couldn't, I just couldn't do that. There was so much shame. Yeah, just so much shame. But you learned to love that version of you. Well, you know, part of me, you know, because I've got children, when I had my son, my first child, I remember thinking, and by then I was 30, you know, early 30s, and when he was like, I kind of forgave myself. When I had him, I'm like, and he was like two, and, you know, like a battered wife, you might be the same thing, you know, like a battered wife who blames themselves, you know, victims who blame themselves. So did you blame yourself?
48:24So deep down, I'd blame myself. Like, I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous. But it's common, I think. That's what I'm saying. Blame yourself for the rejection from your parents. Yeah, so I thought I'd done something wrong. Like, obviously, you asked me if I did something wrong. Of course I didn't do anything. No, you were three. I had all the emotion and the belief and the guilt of someone who'd done something wrong. And so do you think this is where the imposter syndrome still stays with you? Yeah, and you think you're shit. I mean, you really think. How many hundreds of millions do you have to make to prove?
48:51No, but it's not just money. You know, but money, okay. Or a hundred successful companies. Yeah, but, and then because I was traumatized by that, and then I came out and I didn't speak, you know, I didn't really talk that much until I was 10, you know, and then I was put in special learning classes and I was told I was stupid. I'm basically told to my face that I was stupid. You had that with your teachers, didn't you? Oh, sort of my foster father was not, was just telling me stupid the whole time. So the foster home, you know, it was no refuge for me. I didn't, and I miss my sisters. Like all the way I just wanted to be rescued by my mother.
49:19So, and, and, but being, you know, I could, I knew I was in a special class and I had friends who were like, they were all, you know, in that class, but you know, I knew I was in special learning. I knew I had problems, you know, so it didn't. So I just felt, you know, uh, stupid, but, and I had all the, all the, whatever the emotion or the feeling of the belief of someone who was responsible for that. And then I was stupid. And, and, and so when I had my son, you get this little boy and he's perfect, you know, Like any one-year-old is. They're perfect. Especially when you're the parent, they're perfect, right?
49:52Yeah. You know? And I'm like, and it really dawned on me, like with Levi Roots, it's like I couldn't have done anything wrong. Like I know it sounds obvious and it is obvious, but it hit me like what could he, what would he ever do that I would send him off to an orphanage? What would he ever do? I'm like, I can't, like it really hit. And so then I sort of started, and it wasn't just overnight, But it was a slow, you know, that I realized that you don't have to feel like that. But I still carry, I still don't have amazing self-esteem or, you know, and, and success, you know, money and success, it's a band-aid.
50:27And, you know, you can pull away that band-aid. It's an onion, you know, as people say. You know, I used to say, I used to say to girlfriends, watch out, I'm an onion. You know, I've got lots of layers and I can make you cry, you know, jokingly, jokingly. but but um you know uh so so you know money and success it's it's it's it's a band-aid yeah but you know but and also if you get and when you get recognition for other people for those things you know i you know like i think i'm lucky i did this lucky i did that you know like a good fortune you know i worked hard but but you know i don't think i deserve this suddenly i'm on tv and people adore you and they they trust every word you say about their restaurant you're like i don't deserve that so you know yeah but you know to me i'm more surprised by people who don't feel like that so So I agree with you.
51:11For example, all the information in the universe, I know I know nothing. But I mentor hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs. And if I said that, none of them are going to learn from me. And I also know whilst in the whole grand scheme of the universe, I know nothing. And I humblize myself to that. In terms of business and entrepreneurship from someone who was broken his 20s in debt, I actually have got a pretty good track record and I've got some good results. And I do know a thing or two. And I can also learn from people like you who've got more experience. So there's nothing wrong with owning a bit that you know a bit.
51:48Well, having said that, I'm going to go back to my book. But I put, for some reason, it's 47 strategies. There's mostly stories like the ones we've been talking about. But strategies, I do put strategies that I've learned. There's this section on strategies. So having said that, I have distilled it into strategies. So while I say I don't, I guess, you know, there's strategy. I have these strategies, which I see people breaking so I can understand. Again, it's a bit of imposter syndrome. I shouldn't feel like that. But all the evidence says I should be able to advise someone. And you still do it because you write books.
52:21And on the other hand, I still feel like I think this is right. Yeah. But that's from your childhood? Probably, yes. And you said that, because I really want to drill into this, you said that success and money, it's a Band-Aid. Had you not had the void from your childhood, you might not have driven for the success and the money because you had nothing to put a Band-Aid on. Yes, that's true. Yeah. You know, like sometimes I meet sort of what I'd call, you know, my childhood was very unusual. But I meet people with normal childhoods. There's no motivation. And, yeah, and I'm like, God, I'd be the laziest bastard on the planet.
52:55Like, you know, like you've got a nice home and wherever and you're like, your parents are doing this. Like, you know, I mean, I wouldn't have done. So, you know, so when you don't have a choice, you don't have a choice. So I don't know if I was motivated. I just didn't have a choice. When you're in the care system, when you leave at 18, I had to leave the foster home at 18. My friends are going to university. By then I was getting good school marks. I couldn't go to university. I had no money. The government support, I did some work for charity, and one of the things we did was advocate for support.
53:23When you're 18, you just fall off a cliff, and then they all ended up on the streets or taking drugs. I was lucky that I got a job straight away, but I had to go to university at night when all my friends are going during the day because I've got parents. You know, but so, you know, I didn't have a choice. And I knew if I didn't do well at university, I'd know. You know, if I didn't do well at school, you know, I learned early on where I went from the sort of special learning class to the top classes because I was, I wanted to do well. I like, I'm going to, and I like school because I didn't like being at home.
53:49Yeah. Well, I think there's a lot to learn in that story. So I'm glad you shared it. Well, you probably got the same by the sounds of it, you know, motivated by. Yeah. I'm definitely running away from things and towards money and business and entrepreneurship and books and podcasting and all this stuff. Part of it is running towards what I want to achieve, but a big part of it is running away from stuff that happened when I was young. I used to hate all that stuff I was running away from about myself and I used to just hate myself. Then I suppose when you get some external validation and you get some actual results as well as just words, you're like, okay, I can turn this into something productive.
54:27and so you can still run away from what you're running away from because I'm 45 now you thought I shouldn't be running away from things that happened when I was nine or ten but if what you're running away from propels you towards something productive and valuable and useful to society which you know you know books on teaching people how to be entrepreneurs and investing in upcoming entrepreneurs and creating a culture of entrepreneurship in the UK like you were involved in to me that's a massive thing it's a good thing yeah you're right it's a good thing yeah so hopefully yes amen and uh and we can own that now yeah yeah yeah um and i suppose you know you know business is kind of like a drug you know it's exciting i was like became the reason i've done so many it's like 120 130 business is i think it became like a deal junkie like i loved yeah oh yeah you got a new one of these yeah let's do it you know and i have to stop myself i have to say listen you've done those before they don't work you know i know that feeling yeah so so And you meet someone and you think, oh, wouldn't this guy be amazing?
55:25Yeah. You know, like. So you've created a healthy addiction from the pain in your childhood. Yes. Well, there's worse things to be addicted to than business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. So we're going to do a quick fire round. Okay. I'm going to try and get all these. I've probably got like 15 questions. Yeah. So do you reckon you could do them in each one in about a minute? Yeah, I'll shut it down a bit. Biggest mistake young entrepreneurs make? Spending too much. On. well you know um you know i sort of classify in my book uh you know that business businesses discovery uh disruption discovery and defense you know so you've got to disrupt one way or another it's either on price you're either selling this by disrupt by price i can make this cheaper exactly the same or disrupt because it's better with a better material or whatever so i can disrupt one of two ways so it starts with disruption uh then it's discovery so how long how if i make this how long does it take me to figure out if i've got a viable business So if you're starting this business with$10 ,000,$100 ,000, any number, you're starting that business, most entrepreneurs go, this is going to work.
56:27And they go and order stock and they spend money on logos. They might have an office. They get their business cards. And they spend all the money and then it takes longer. Like a house renovation, it costs twice as much. Takes twice as long. So they run out of money. And they run out of money before discovery. This may be a good idea, right? But they don't have enough money to find out. They spend a certain amount of money to find out if it's a good idea. They waste the money on one thing. The first year is a research project. The first year is spending the money to find out if this is viable.
56:58That's what you want to find out as quickly as possible. If it means not having a shop front, not having any offices, not having a briefcase, just go and sell that and find out. And so many times, even I made that mistake in my early days, I'd run through the money before we found out if the product was viable. And I feel like you've watched a movie, but you haven't watched the second half of the movie. You don't know. Was it a good idea? So they're spending too much money on the business before getting through to figure out if the product to work or not. Yeah. Find out. It's an idea. Find out.
57:28No expert will tell you if that'll sell or not. No one. No dragon. No one else. You've got to find out. Like developing a pharmaceutical drug. You've got to do a trial and find out. Got it. as a dragon, in one minute or less, should you raise money to start a business or self-fund and bootstrap it? Depends on your circumstances. If you've got plenty of money, then you may not. That's a tough question because it depends on your circumstances. Good. I like tough questions. Yeah. I mean, if you have a choice, then why would you take external funding? Because you're giving away a share of the business.
58:05Yeah. But what if you could grow to 10x with other people's money? Well, that's doing a different business. So they're starting the business or they're starting a bigger business with other people's money. So you have to find out the value of that money. If it means you can quickly access markets and do things better and get to the answer of whether this is a viable product, then get the money. It's worth it. Right. And also, if it comes with expertise, then fantastic. Right. And also, you may need further funding later. And if they're shareholders now, they'll follow the business and you can get the extra bit for the expansion.
58:34What are traits of disruptive entrepreneurs? Well, I think all entrepreneurs are disruptive. That's one of my Ds, disruption. Or? All. Yeah, you either have to disrupt on price or on product. So everyone is, you know, you're doing something different. Even your podcast is something different. Anyway, I do find a lot of people have little quirks. You know, they're not your sort of Joe Average from Joe Average family or Jill Average family. They tend to have little quirks and be motivated or something to prove. So maybe they're not the healthiest people mentally. you know, because you've got something to prove.
59:07But they need, I found one thing, there is no, I don't know, entrepreneurs come from all ages, all backgrounds, all countries, all religions, whatever, but there are no lazy entrepreneurs. So whatever gives you motivation, there are no lazy entrepreneurs. What's the biggest disruption that's happened to you in your life? Well, obviously being thrown in the care system at three years old was disruption. You know, going into investment banking from stopping being an economist and going into investment banking, which I was good at. That was a big disruption. Taking a chance, I left the government sector and went into private sector and did well.
59:44What's the biggest risk you've ever taken? Probably that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And when you don't have a family, salary is important. I took a pay cut to go in the private sector. Right. So that felt really risky at the time. Yeah. Wow. What's your biggest failure or regret? Well, I've got lots of failures. you know 120 companies and uh you know and knowing now i know we talked about this but when i do think what i've learned in business you know there's some of the stupid stuff i did you know spending money too quickly all that kind of stuff not getting discovery you know like there's so many i've made so many you know there's one in the book where i well there's a financial one where i had a company you know which was worth a billion i was a you know a small shareholder but my stake was worth 40 million i didn't sell and then it was eventually worth a tenth of that and i'm like that was pretty stupid.
1:00:29Things like that. There's a lot, you know, when you're 64, you know, you just, but you try to learn and not be too hurt. This show's called Disruptors. Yeah. Okay. I like it. What does the word disruptive mean to you? Well, it means, you know, a lot of people think disruption is only on disrupting with a product, but as I say, you can disrupt with price and you can, you can, and disrupting with a product may not even mean the product's different, but if these, if these are for sale in London, but not in liverpool and i go and start selling those in liverpool that's disruption so it's the same thing same price but it's a different geography yeah so disruption can be a take a lot of forms so people some people call it usp but i prefer disruption right and can you tell us about your new book yeah yeah so it's it's it's uh it it it rose from a series of newspaper columns i used to write for city am uh 10 years ago or more which did very well and it it it it sort of goes from business but a lot of personal stuff you know so it's a collection of stories it's got about nearly 50 strategies in there which are defined very clearly disruption all that kind of stuff which are things i've learned and the simpler i can make them the better yeah um but it's got 50 things in there uh and then it's got a series of stories which go from all sorts of things right up to like ridiculous things ideas i had in the middle of the night and all that kind of stuff and experiences well even that one you know playing chess and what that the way that you think and how that means for the odds of business investing in movies you know i've had pharmaceuticals and freaking modeling uh i don't know bra company you know the source company you know i've had every sector the home house i've had been involved in airline so that and i kind of learned what's the more interesting and instructive so it's these stories organized into different sections so it's easy to read you can pick it up and and jump in wherever you like and it's called humble stumbles Humble.
1:02:16And if I get the rest of it right, it's Humble Stumbles, Strategies, Stories, and Soul Searching from a Serial Entrepreneur. Isn't that good with the S's? Very good. Strategies, Stories, Soul Searching from a Serial Entrepreneur. And then where can we follow you for, you know, you sharing content on social media? Well, you know, I'd never got into social media. And then, you know, people are now telling me, well, you've written a book, you've got to go on social media. Well, it's also part of that imposter syndrome. I'm not very good at, well, LinkedIn is good. Yeah. And then my, what's the other word?
1:02:48Instagram. You're really selling this, Richard. I'll start to put stuff on Instagram and YouTube. That would just be, if we search Richard Filey, we'll find all that. Yeah, if you go to the website first and then you can contact me. But the book is a good place to start. Then you'll feel like you know me. But I should get better at this, shouldn't I? This is like a breath of fresh air to me. I love the honesty. And how you can get so good at something and still every day... just struggle with your own beliefs. I think that's very inspiring. Yeah, I wonder. Do you think entrepreneurs are very confident normally?
1:03:22No, not all. I think we're all carrying baggage, and I think we've all got areas where we lack a sense of belief. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I do write that I'm probably – I am an optimist, funnily enough. I know what we talked about, but it's in the book as well. But being slightly optimistic is very good. I like the way you said slightly optimistic. You can't be unrealistic where you think these are going to sell by the zillions. That's fantasist. Yeah, fantasist. But being slightly, which for an economist is funny because optimism means you're making a mistake. It means you're over-calculating the odds, the true odds.
1:03:57You roll a dice, an optimist thinks they're going to get three and a half. They don't think three. They think whatever the average is. Sorry, they think they're going to get a four. You know what I mean? So they think above the average, whereas it's technically wrong. So an economist would say, you should lose out of that. You'll make a mistake. but by being slightly and all the research because i find it interesting all the research about being optimistic it's a good thing yeah and i think it's also magnetism people who are slightly optimistic are more fun to be with yes so they get other people around them yeah no one wants to be with a pessimist too much do they um well i mean in recent times with everything that's gone on in the uk yeah um that you know people are um yeah they're pessimistic about the future of the uk i actually also i've said that a lot but i also think there's an opportunity in that If a lot of people are leaving and you're here, you've got opportunity.
1:04:45I think Labour government are going to need the help of entrepreneurs in the end. I don't think they're getting enough advice. So, yeah, I think there's always an upside, I think. Anyway, we want to finish on a positive note. Yes. London is a great place. Yes. Hopefully the Labour government, the Labour government in Australia worked out okay. Everyone was panicking. Yeah. But they're fine. So hopefully this is a more Tony Blair than a, who's the other, one of the old ones. Yeah. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. Richard this has been a lot of fun thank you very much yeah thank you
1:05:39you
From the publisher
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Rob meets Richard Farleigh, ex-Dragon, serial entrepreneur, and self confessed business addict. Richard talks candidly about the state of the UK right now, why the entrepreneurial exodus should worry us all, what REALLY happened behind his shocking exit from the BBC, and how the next generation of business leaders can harness knowledge to create life-changing wealth
Richard REVEALS:
Why the UK is falling behind in business investment
What the true impact of UK tax laws will be
Why the work/life balance matters
The secrets behind successful pitching
The shocking truth behind wealth inequality
What lay behind Richard's shocking exit from the BBC
BEST MOMENTS
"Starting a business now is difficult, but it's almost like it's polarised in the world."
"In the UK, if you start exactly the same business and you're trying to raise 5 million, it's a nightmare."
"The cost of labour, the cost of smart people here, is a lot lower than, say, in the US."
"Someone is lying. Either Labour are using it as a typical tax and spend rubbish, or the Tories have hidden mismanagement."
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ABOUT THE HOST
Rob Moore is an author of 9 business books, 5 UK bestsellers, holds 3 world records for public speaking, entrepreneur, property investor, and property educator. Author of the global bestseller “Life Leverage” Host of UK’s No.1 business podcast “The Disruptive Entrepreneur”
“If you don't risk anything, you risk everything”
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This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/
