Know When to Leave: Syensqo CEO Ilham Kadri

0:00A CNBC original podcast. We all have to make big decisions in our lives, decisions that define and influence our professional and personal journeys. If you reflect on them, some are good and some I'm sure you definitely regret. In my nearly three decades as a financial journalist, I've interviewed literally thousands of CEOs, politicians and market voices, and they all had to make decisions and choices to get where they are today. In this podcast, I hear about those decisions, as well as the moments of doubt, risk and conviction that impacted our guests' journeys and the people they lead. This is Executive Decisions with me, Steve Sedgwick.

0:42In this episode, I speak to Ilham Qadri. They said, oh, you have the potential of C-sweets. And I said, what is C? Is it after A and B? Ilham Khadri is the CEO of Belgian materials company ScienceCo. Brought up by her grandmother in a deprived suburb of Casablanca in Morocco, Ilham's education was the launchpad for her career. My grandmother believed in me. She changed me from one school to another. Eventually, a professor in mathematics realised I was that good in analytical and connecting the dots. And he did the diagnosis and said, oh, she's dyslexic. Despite the many challenges in her path, Elam's career has been as successful as it's been diverse, all whilst embracing the pressures and demands of being a CEO.

1:27I think I live in unbalanced life, but I enjoy the unbalance. These are Elam Kadri's executive decisions.

1:43I've known you for a few years now, but there's a lot about you that I and investors and viewers don't know. So if I was at a gathering or I was doing a podcast and I said, who is Elam Qadri? What would you say? A lady who, you know, who dreamed big, scary dreams when she was a kid, a humanist, passionate about sciences in general, believe in humanity, and yeah, find my path. It's not linear, but be curious about the journey rather than aiming for destination. That's me. You've already said a lot about who you see yourself as. Where did a lot of that come from? The curiosity, the desire to enjoy the journey.

2:37Let's go right back to the start, to Derbe Sultan, to Casablanca, to Morocco. Tell me about your upbringing. Yeah, it started in Casablanca, a mythic name, city, you know, in Derbe Sultan, as you said. So very, you know, a popular neighborhood in Casablanca. nothing glamorous like the movie while we were all dreaming of being with Humphrey Borghards and raised by my grandmother I was abandoned by my father, my mother left the country so my grandmother raised me and she was my first role model, an illiterate who who left her life with a lot of freedom. She married a barbarian. She was Arab and denied by her own parents, who were actually wealthy, but she ended up very poor and a widow at a young age.

3:42She became a cleaner. She ended her career as a cook in the kitchen of French families. It was a French colony at that time. So she raised me. She raised me in a humble home where we lacked resources. So we didn't have safe water, potable water, electricity. Actually, electricity came before tap water. So I leave the candle electricity switch. But despite the fact that we were poor, actually, I didn't realize I was poor till I relocate to France for my higher education, right? I mean, I had a home full of love. Yeah. And she taught me to admire people who put their thoughts in writing. And she used to tell me a saying, which I put in my bracelet here.

4:44She was taught that she will have two exits in her life. The first one to her husband's home. so she had to make a good marriage and the second went to the grave and she had a lot of humour she said this is not sexy my little girl find your third exit and actually my exit was rather door education right was my door it sounds that you had a really really tough start the quite poor background that you didn't realise you had no utilities Your parents weren't there for you as well. Was that really, really tough? Like any kid, you want to know your parents, right? You want to live with them. But at the same time, I had this lady devoted for me, you know, every day, you know.

5:35So, yeah, I had absences and, you know, and I was really a dreamer. I was shy. I realized I was dyslexic. I'm still, you know, very heavy dyslexic. At the school at that time, at age of eight, nine, there was no diagnosis and we didn't have the money anyway to do it. So we were rather an idiot than a clever kid. My grandmother believed in me. She changed me from one school to another. And this is public schools in Morocco, right? And eventually, a professor in mathematics realized I was that good in analytical and connecting the dots. and he did the diagnosis, said, oh, she's dyslexic organ. What is dyslexia, right, at that time?

6:22No, it was tough, but at the same time, with the force of nature, with the pillar, that grandma giving you the unconditional love, which now I know is part of my backbone. So she gave me the self-esteem. She gave me, you know, the support I needed. And in the Sultan, as you mentioned, a lot of solidarity. I mean, you enter any home, it's your home. Any lady in that street is your mother in a way. She taught me to be respected, to have a voice, to have empathy, to have fun, by the way. We never took ourselves seriously in that Darf Sultan. So a lot of laughter. And I see those qualities in you every time I meet you as well.

7:09You and I have done some pretty dull panels as well. And we've always managed to have a bit of fun in there as well. So you've brought that with you throughout your entire career. Absolutely. Absolutely. And actually, more I climbed the ladder, more I reconnected with the younger me in a way, because I'm now bringing my whole self. Did you consciously decide to go down an academic route? You've talked about these amazing inspirational characters. First of all, your grandmother, and then a math teacher who saw great things in you. But did you personally say, I'm really going to make something of myself?

7:42So as we were pulled, we were renting books from a bookseller, right? He was renting for 10 cents, right? There were books which shaped my dreams and inspiration. One book was about Marie Curie. And here you are, a lady who was immigrant in France, a scientist, got the Nobel Prize twice, her daughter got a Nobel Prize, married the man she loved and a widow. She had an affair and the whole world against her. And, you know, my mother also taught me through her life to really seek for freedom. Freedom, financial independence, freedom to marry who you want, you know, the man you love, you know, etc.

8:35And Marie Curie, wow. I mean, what's an inspiration for me? I mean, and also... And I think this is how it started, to be honest with you. But she was so ahead of her time in so many ways. Two different fields of science, a woman in what was a male-dominated, and to be fair, in many ways, still male-dominated a hundred years later. Absolutely, absolutely. The only woman who got twice the Nobel Prize. So that book with Virginia Woolf, another, you know, feminist writer, was probably one of my first English book, just inspired me. And by the way, my grandmother named me Ilham, which means inspiration in Arabic.

9:12Not that she wished for me to inspire. She wished for me to be inspired by others to start with books. So I read every single book I could find in Arabic, in French, in English. How old were you when you decided to become a scientist? I think I was 13-ish. Dyslexia diagnosis was about that. and then I realized wow I'm really good at mathematics and they recognize that I have they call this a handicap which turned to be a superpower because now I know why I'm behind. I love science because what is impossible today can be possible tomorrow. What is true today can be challenged and revisited tomorrow.

10:00And I like that. I mean, my life is not about certainty, linearity, what is possible. It's about actually the other part, right? The impossible, the no's, the unknown. And science is great, you know, as a domain. Actually, literature and creativity is great equally. It's a huge part of your life, isn't it? When you, part of your relaxation is literature yeah reading reading reading i think that's what saved me in Durstel time yeah it's reading you know because it was a boring life and you know i have a lot of friends etc but in our humble one bedroom right where it turned the living room into your bedroom right that's how it went um no tv with tv was really boring at that time anyway reading reading everything possible, right?

10:52And literature was part of my story. How did you get to university and how did you get to Strasbourg? So at age of 17, I got a typhoid fever. So almost killed me, right? So that was unsafe water, right? In Morocco. So water is important to me. But then I eventually passed my baccalaureate the sort of IB right and thanks to my grades I got two scholarships a Moroccan one and a French one actually I was disappointed because I had the American dream like Venin you know in the Sultan we were all dreaming of going to America ended up in France following my higher education was amazingly cold winter you know I've never seen snow right it was very interesting in the east of france um so yeah little by little that was you know a path to engineering i wanted to become an engineer did master's degree in in canada so all true scholarship you know without public money and that's why i'm i'm so much you know grateful for the public you know support right i got through my career and my studies uh to engineering and then i knew I wanted to do a PhD because of science.

12:20You know, at that time, I didn't know if I would stay as a researcher, go to teach or not, right? So, yeah, I made it to the end. You are at heart a scientist who happens to be a CEO, aren't you, rather than a CEO who studied science? Yeah, it's very rare, right? But, you know, listen, I just followed my passion, you know. I was not thinking of becoming a CEO at all. I never dreamed of being a CEO, by the way. So for me, each step was already a victory, right? Getting to France, leaving Morocco was a tough decision because I left my grandmother behind me. Coming to France and finding a new ecosystem, which was also equally tough, right?

13:04But rewarding because it was learning and I love learning. I'm a learner. Life is full of tough decisions. That was your toughest early decision though, leaving this amazing person behind. Yeah, I mean, I was excited. to move on to France, right? I mean, this is, imagine, the Sultan and university and even a room, which was much more than what I had in Morocco. But leaving behind the woman of your life, it was tough. But it was the right decision. It was the right decision. And she wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Oh, my God, no. That was her dream that you got there. Freedom, freedom, freedom.

13:45Is that how you saw it? Is that how she saw it? Freedom? She saw it as probably through me living a life she would have loved for herself. And I remember when she left me in the airport, she said, remember inspiration, ilham. And she said, live every day like it's your last day. Enjoy it. That's an amazing thing to say, but it's hard to do, isn't it? when you're working so hard and everything's so intense. Yeah, but I learned how to do it with age and progression. I enjoy it every day now. Do you? Yeah. And that's actually, let's go into that. You find the right balance every day, do you? No, I mean, it will not be true to say balance.

14:35I think I live in unbalanced life, but I enjoy the unbalance. enjoy being with you now 100 i don't care what's gonna happen after or before it's it's me it's here so so i really learned how to enjoy the moments and be present in the moments and i think that's part of my leadership i hope my team and my people they will tell you i bring my whole self and i'm with them 100 for sure i mean i was looking at the the introduction you gave to your employees when you became the CEO of Solve, you were passionate about science, passionate about chemistry, passionate about innovation and improving people's lives as well.

15:17And I think that last line is very much of the Ilham Qadri that I know. Well, that's what's happened to me is mentors and sponsors and people along the way have helped me to improve my own life to prosperity, but prosperity, richness of through education and obviously money but also you know just impacting others

15:42I think you were an intern at Solvay very very early on weren't you so it's very circular yeah I arrived in in France as I told you and I wanted to to pass my driving license I have no money so I said I'm gonna do an intern and I ended up in the middle of nowhere in a village called Tavo in the east of France doing an internship. My first salary, I mean, I sold donuts in the beach of Casablanca, that's all. But my first salary, Tavo, is a Solvay plant. And I was laughing in 2019. I said, watch your intern. They can end up your CEOs. Well, absolutely. Well, that's a great progression for anyone, isn't it?

16:24But you've worked at Royal Dutch Shell. You've worked at Leondel Bassel. You worked at UCB, Huntsman, Roman Haas, Sealed Air Corp, and Solvay ultimately as well. Have you enjoyed, when you've made those decisions to go to different companies, have they been easy decisions, difficult decisions? Was there a plan? No, there was no plan and nothing really linear. So Shell was my first, you know, employer. It was amazing. It was, you know, they hired me out of school. I was still ending and finishing writing my PhD. and they have what they call the shelf life course. So you spend one week being assessed, right?

17:05They measure your IQ. I didn't know that we can measure the IQ. So it was funny. You do a sort of an essay and you present your PhD anyway. And then they said, oh, you have the potential of C-suite. And I said, what is C? Is it after A and B? They said, no, no. I want to be A-suite. C-suite, you know. So they said, no, no, no. this is a really nice progression. You are going to be part of high potentials. It was amazing. I mean, you could at that time meet Mark Moody Stewart, the CEO, you know. It was just an amazing onboarding school to the world of corporation. I started with the research. And I was lucky they gave me, you know, technicians and people working with me.

17:50So here I am, you know, managing a research project and managing people. And I said, wow, you know, this managing people is different because PHG, you manage yourself over three years. You are lonely with the projects. So I started enjoying people management. And I remember one gentleman in Shell Chemik is saying, before you make strategies and you become a business leader, go and sell. Try to understand what the salespeople are doing. It was a tough, tough, tough experience. You fell into this key, I guess for want of a better word, decision in your life of diversifying your skill set. You're a scientist.

18:33You're a chemist. You understand polymers. You understand macromolecular physical chemistry. Yeah. That's your background. Yeah. Now you're doing sales. That was not a conscious decision. No. I mean, I hated that. And I said, this is a mistake. And I felt, you know, but, you know, something in life tells you just do it, right? Just do it. So I followed that advice. I never regretted that. I spent three years in, you know, in sales and products management. And then, you know, just the rest is history. You talk about regrets. Are there some key decisions in your life that you have regretted professionally?

19:12No, not really. I thought it was a regret. It was not. one of the tough decisions was in another company I will not name them but actually I was on maternity leave expecting my baby it was a big deal and I did it right and you know it took four months etc and then they reorganized the company but they forgot me in the organization chart actually what they told me as now you are turning a mother you are not gonna travel so as a marketing manager don't worry come back we'll find something else for you that sounds to me incredibly sexist you're the woman who's a trailblazer you've grown up idolizing Marie Curie who's another trailblazer you can imagine someone in the 21st century has turned around to you and said yeah you're a woman you're a mother you're not traveling yeah yeah and and he forgot to ask you of course I was furious and my husband could see it and his career actually was I mean he was more senior at that time than me and he said you by the way he's my secret in a life I can say it now he he said listen you have to follow your passion you have to be okay with what's going on and I was not okay so I ended up answering calls which I refused to answer before because you know I was so you're being headhunted previously but you refused to say those calls.

20:43Yeah, yeah. And my son was four months or six months old. My husband resigned from 20-year career. For you? Yeah. He's quite a man. Yeah, leap of faith. Yeah. I mean, it was amazing. Without him, I would not have been here. But Ilani, he's got a 20-year career. Yes. His career, he's more senior than you at this stage. But he had faith in his wife, who's just had his amazing son, to follow her dreams and her career. And it has been this way for the past… He's a visionary as well. Yeah, 25 years. He's my invisible hero. This is about your decisions. But I'm interested in his decision. Just talk me through how you as a couple and how he decided to say, no, Ilham, we are back in your career.

21:35And this is not the first time he did it another time. I mean, I said, this is crazy, you know? I mean, he said, no, don't worry, we're going to move on. So he was backing you before you were backing you. Yeah. And we moved to another country called Switzerland. Yeah. I mean, which is, and he found a job, by the way. So here he's following me, found a job. And we have a dual career, right? So cool, you know? but then it's very difficult to find kindergartens and childcare is very very tough to find in Switzerland and at one point of time he already make one sacrifice and I'm like it was not working I don't have a family a nanny costs a lot and even if you find one that's not that reliable and that was the time where are really struggled because there is no, there should be no choice between the job and the kid.

22:37There is no choice, right? You will go for the kid. This is the only time in my life I thought I'm going to stop working. And it was so painful. And at that time, lighting the tunnel, we find an au pair and my husband eventually at one point of time stopped for following me and helping with the kid. That is an extraordinary story as well. But tell me a little bit within that story about why you felt you were just going to give up your career to bring the family up. You're a brilliant woman. You're a scientist. You're a trailblazer. Your grandmother has already named you inspiration as well. What swayed you to stick with your career?

23:24Well, because that's one point of time. And that's why, you know, if you don't have help, if you don't have the ecosystem supporting you, I think the middle name of mothers is guilt. You want to be a superwoman, a super, you know, leader, super professional, a super wife. You take care of the kid. I mean, it doesn't exist, superwoman. And here I have my husband who finds another job. and I'm not gonna say stop it again right I'm like no this is my turn right I'm gonna so that's how I feel now for families by the way I launched 16 week paternity leave at Solveig you understand why of course and my husband's saying it needs to be a woman to give men that long paternity leave it's because I suffered in 2005 in 2000 you know uh eight in Switzerland when I had to take care of my kid doesn't it make you so angry i'm a man and i'm angry that women in this day and age have to make that decision career or family but this is how we we lose them steve is it still the case yeah of course look at stem science technology engineering and math look at the ceos so you need to prepare the pipeline you need to help women specifically during maternity leaves and and parents in general.

24:52I think I see it with the young generation at Solvay Science School with my son, he's 20. They are keen to support. They are keen to have a dual careers. They are keen to sacrifice one for the other, like my husband did. But he was, you know, trailblazer. He was pretty ahead of time. I know men, without doubt, a lot of them will make the woman feel guilty, which is just outrageous. Do women make other women feel guilty? Oh, yeah, more actually. I mean, the maternity leave story, right? It was a woman. It was not a man who told me that story on the phone. Who told you your career was going to be curtailed or different.

25:33Yeah, I mean, you're not going to travel. Because you were on maternity leave. This is a woman and a mother, right? So don't make a decision for me. Ask me the question. Never make assumption about my life. I, you know, I own it. I own my life, right? And I make my decisions. So yeah, I think it's getting really better in mentoring. There are more women mentoring other women. But you can feel lonely. Like the CEO job, I think motherhood can be very lonely when you are active and if you don't have the right support around you. You've mentioned lonely two or three times now, and you mentioned it to me when we were off camera.

26:18Is being the CEO a lonely position? Yes, it is. I mean... Do you talk to other CEOs about this? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm a mentor. I'm mentoring CEOs. You're mentoring... Yeah, I'm mentoring CEOs. ...the gentleman who's taken over from you at Science Park. Yeah, but also other CEOs and people who will not get the job or should not take the job, right? So I'm a professional mentor. Loneliness happens because at one point of time, you have tough decision to make, you know, because, you know, you have, you know, when you get in the top of the pyramid, there is another one on your shoulder, which is completely inverted pyramids.

26:57It's called the board. It's called the media. It's called activism. It's a lot of stress. It's the only CEOs who can understand the stress and the loneliness of being a CEO. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, when you get into the job, there is no really preparation for it, right? We are getting better to prepare CEOs, to mentor them. And it's tough out there. Competition is tough. Discussion, the quarterly discussion, you know, being in front of Steve saying, why are your share prices doing this? Why are your EBITDA at the bottom? It's part of the game, right? It's part of it. But you have to build that double skin.

27:35You have to understand it's not personal, yet it's impacting people around you. I generally like a lot of the CEOs and you and I have always got on really well. I find it quite tough when I interview on the quarterly numbers. I already know the analysts don't like it. Your shares are cooled down. And I've got to say to you, Ilham, why is everyone so disappointed with your numbers? And you've put your life and you are the person at the top. And you challenged me. I remember Steve one day on restructuring. I apologize. No, no, don't apologize. I think you did the right. But it was hurting. Because not you hurt me, but I know that's restructuring, it's impacting lives.

28:18Is that one of the toughest decisions, restructuring and cutting people? Absolutely. Oh, eight or nine were miserable years in my career. I shut down plants at Roman House, right? And you know, I mean, we had to do it. So I decided to resign, to quit the company. I was the only income of the family at that time. Again, my husband was by my side. and you know i remember myself putting my resignation explaining why leaving feeling freedom but responsibility with the kid and the family and yet a phone call came in very quickly what's about going to the middle east i said come on middle east yeah yeah there is there is a project going on in the Saudi Arabia, Sadara.

29:09At that time was not known. So I ended up in the Middle East, becoming a water lady. You remember water, which was precious in my... Yeah. So I built desalination plants and grey water filtration plants. It was tough because I think my Saudi friends now say, how come an American company, Dow, is sending us a general manager woman who couldn't mingle with men. And at that time, I had to change my garde-robe. So I was with abayas and not being able to even travel alone without a chaperone. You know, can you imagine? And I did that. No, I can't imagine. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't imagine how strange that must be for a successful North African, European, top businesswoman to do that.

29:59Yeah. And my friends were saying, it's crazy. What are you doing there? After six months, my Saudi friends, and I called them friends, they are really friends, they realized I'm not there as a joke or for fun. And I became their sister, sister in the Arab world. You get into the right seat and you become a competitive advantage. And since then, we have a relationship forever. So that was great. And yeah, working on the water, I mean, my nickname in the kingdom is the water lady. was one of the best events in my life. And actually, it's even better when I was leaving the Middle East to join the headquarter of Dow, and I got a phone call to work in a hygiene and cleaning company and transform it.

30:47It's called Diversi. And that was amazing because the people who called me didn't know that my grandmother was a cleaner. And I remember my husband was laughing. And he said, you forgot to ask for your compensation. I didn't. I just said yes. I'm going to do it. Because of that connection? Yeah, I knew I will be okay. Don't worry.

31:18We've got to the stage where you've had an amazing career. You've done some extraordinary things. You're at diversity as well. Why did you take the job? Is it the biggest decision of your career to have become the CEO of Solveig? Not really. I was CEO of Diversity and actually worked for private equity, which was also interesting. It was a great experience. The thing is that when Solveig came in out of the blue, I called my husband. And it happened my husband is Belgium, right? And I told him, well, just listen to a voice message and someone is proposing a job in in Belgium. And he laughed and he said, oh, there is only one company for you, it's Solve, but you know, oh, you will never get this.