James Hinchcliffe: F1TV expert on surviving ovals + being inspired by Villeneuve

24:16James Hinchcliffe:I was bleeding quite a bit. Got me to hospital. Obviously everything worked out fine. But yeah, it took me out for the rest of the season as I was recovering. Were you immediately aware of the severity of your injuries? Mercifully, I was so concussed in the accident. I have no recollection of that. You know, I was driving, everything was fine. As far as my memory goes, I blinked and I wake up on a table staring up at bright lights in a collar strapped to a board tube down my throat a lot of concerned people looking down and you know even then i mean it at that point i realized something's gone wrong here but uh it took it took a few days for me to understand how complicated the injury was and the severity of it and you know ultimately what the what the rehab time was going to be hinch you're you're a bright guy how did you justify how did you square away in your mind the risks of racing on ovals?

25:11James Hinchcliffe:Before or after? Okay. Or both. Give us both, yeah. Well, before it's simple. You know, I think any driver acknowledges racing's inherently dangerous. And when you're presented with an opportunity, you find ways to justify it. I think it's as simple as that. How do you justify it? It'll never happen to me because I'm really good? No, I think it was more the sport's much safer than it was. You know, I'm not racing on ovals in the 70s with, you know, aluminum fuel cells sitting in the side pods. I'm not racing in an era where the driver's feet are in front of the front axle. And so I think you justify it by saying the safety's come so far, it's unlikely to happen to anyone.

25:55James Hinchcliffe:You don't even make it personal. It's, oh, that's not going to happen. and I was very ignorant you know when I got to IndyCar by that point you're racing on ovals you've done Indy Lights you've kind of learned to appreciate them for what they are and they are amazing when when you do learn to appreciate them and I think I very ignorantly thought that I was racing in an era where we had passed the point of losing drivers and then my rookie year we lost Dan Weldon and that was a that was a bit of a wake-up call but when you are young and you are naive and uh you're hungry for success you you justify in your head by thinking it's it's probably not gonna happen what are the chance landing strikes twice you know am i right in thinking that greg moore was an inspiration for you as well he was very much so who tragically we lost on an oval as well and when i was young greg died in 99 and he was my hero he was my guy that day i was i think 12 years old maybe racing go-karts and that was the day i started hating oval racing.

26:56James Hinchcliffe:And I hated oval racing up until the day I was forced to do it if I was going to continue a career in IndyCar. You know, for a time there during the split in American Open Wheel, you had the champ car side, which really didn't run on ovals, and then the IRL, the Indy Racing League, which was in its inception exclusively ovals. Well, I don't like that series. I was on this side of the war. For a long time, I didn't really think it was something I was going to have to face. 08 happens, the merge happens, and it becomes a much more kind of balanced schedule, and the reality is, yeah, you're going to have to start doing this, and you just had to face it.

27:33Cadillac has entered Formula One, deepening the racing pedigree behind every V-Series on the road. Discover a lineup that delivers pure adrenaline in the form of modern luxury. Experience the The quickest Cadillac ever, the all-electric Lyric V, the peak performance of the CT5V Blackwing, the nimble agility of the Optic V, and the legendary roar of the Escalade V. All engineered to thrill. Find out more about Cadillac's performance story in Formula One and our race-tested V-Series lineup at Cadillac.com.

28:21Back to the crash. You're out for the rest of 2015. Did you consider not racing again? No. Did you consider only doing road courses and street tracks? No. Because it is extraordinary that the very next year, you go and put the car on pole for the Indianapolis 500. Phenomenal. How difficult was that?

28:47James Hinchcliffe:Um, it was difficult in the sense that qualifying pole at Indy is always difficult because you've got 32 other teams and drivers trying to beat you. But Hinch, you must have had so much going on in your head just getting into the car. No, you're giving me too much credit. You take the chip out. A little bit, a little bit. You know, I woke up from the accident, understood, you know, what had happened. I was out for the year, fine. My third question when I woke up, you know, I couldn't even speak. I had to write it on pen and paper because I had a tube down my throat. My third question was, when can I get back in the car?

29:21James Hinchcliffe:And that's not an inspirational story. That's not an uncommon story. I think most drivers, when they are faced with an injury, you're so fearful of losing this thing you've worked so hard for. You've sacrificed so much for your entire life. And so you immediately are like, I can get back in a car, right? When can that happen? How I sort of reconciled the whole situation, there was two elements, I think, that really helped make getting back in the car not an issue for me at all. The first was I had no memory of the impact, of the extraction, of the pain that I would have been feeling on the day.

30:01James Hinchcliffe:I think that's important. I don't have flashbacks of a crash. And then the other thing was I made a very conscious effort very early in my recovery to not associate anything that I was going through with the race car. I told myself I had a car accident because in my head, I didn't know any different. I had no memory of it. So I told myself it was a car accident. I watched the video like I knew it wasn't a car accident, but I just I managed to just push it out of my head that the race car had done this to me. It was something unrelated. and it was never a question about getting back in the car.

30:38James Hinchcliffe:Did it help that it was a mechanical and that it wasn't a driver error? I have thought about that as well, and I do think that's an element of it because it's not like you think, hey, in that same scenario, would I make the same decision that led to this outcome or will I not take that same risk because I'm afraid of what could happen? It was dumb luck. It was bad luck. And I do think that makes it easier too. Right. So you put it on the pole. Can you remember now, 10 years on almost, the emotions? Yes, I can. And it's funny, man. I think back about that day every once in a while, and I'm a little disappointed in myself because I didn't allow myself to enjoy it enough in the moment.

31:24James Hinchcliffe:I think the overwhelming feeling was relief. So relief that you can still do it? Yeah, basically, because I came into that month and there were a lot of talks about would he still be able to, you know, run well at the 500 because I had a decent track record at Indy. I'd qualified in the front row a couple of times and we'd had a we had a pre month test. There's always an April test at Indy and they had made some fairly significant regulation changes to the aerodynamics of the cars for 2016. And we went there for that test. So my first time back at the track and it was a disaster. I didn't do a single lap flat.

32:04James Hinchcliffe:The car felt like it was trying to kill me and it was very concerning. I had no conscious issue with being at the track, being in the car, trying to go fast. But at that point, I'm thinking, is there something subconscious now? So I don't remember the accident, but maybe my subconscious remembers the accident and thinks, oh, I've been here. We're not doing that again. And of course, everyone on the team, everyone in the paddock, everyone in the media has that same thought. And I was like, guys, I'm telling you, there's something wrong with the car. Typical racing driver, right? It's not me, it's the car.

32:40James Hinchcliffe:and but i mean we left that day and you know i've subsequently found out there were crisis calls between my agent and the team and you know like oh is he like is he done is this it and i just said nope take it back to the shop we'll come back in may and we'll see what happens and we took it back to the shop they claim they found nothing we go back in may and second lap first practice flat out. No problem. What changed in me? Nothing. They'll tell you the car. Nothing. I don't know. It gave you two weeks of just pure terror that maybe there was something wrong. So I told all my crew, I said, look, for 11 months now, I've been telling this story.

33:19James Hinchcliffe:We're going to leave this month with a new story to tell. And that was kind of our, that was our motivation going into that month. And I think qualifying on pole, pole at Indy is so unique. It's such a cool thing. qualifying days in a lot of ways it's the coolest day of the year for an indycar driver and uh and it means so much to the teams to know that they built the fastest car and the differences you know you're looking for the the smallest amounts you have to perfect everything on the car everything on the run and so there's a lot of pride for teams and for drivers in that day and i think uh yeah that relief kind of came that we'd built up this sort of storybook you know this fairy tale story of this comeback and if we had qualified third it would be like oh yeah that was good but like it wasn't going to be as cool and so i think getting pole it was relief but then my my mind immediately switched way too quickly i let it switch to the race and be like okay well now we're starting first now we have to win and so there was immediately this new pressure of okay how do we continue this next week were there any lasting effects from the crash the previous year were Wait, did you have a limp?

34:27Did you? I mean, when I was watching Dancing with the Stars,

34:32James Hinchcliffe:you look fine physically, but maybe you're just putting a smile on it. No, no. I mean, if there were a hundred things that had to happen just wrong for that accident to happen and that injury to happen, it's a very bizarre freak sort of thing that happened with the suspension coming through the car and through me. A hundred things had to go just wrong for that to happen. A thousand things had to go just right for me to have not only survived that accident, but leave with no lasting side effects. I've got some cool scars, but no, physically it, it, it didn't hold me back in any way. Do you view life differently now?

35:12James Hinchcliffe:Yeah, very much so. One of the questions afterwards very often was, you know, has it changed you? And the answer was professionally, no. Like I was happy to strap back into the car. I would take the same risks. I would, accept the same outcomes. But personally, yeah, in a huge way. Can you describe a pole lap on an oval like that? How different is it to a road course? I'm thinking of Alonzo when he went there in 2017. I think he qualified fifth. Is it a completely different skill set? And you'll understand in a minute why I'm asking you about this. But just do you get oval specialists or can you do both?

35:50James Hinchcliffe:You absolutely get oval specialists. And you nailed it. The description there was perfect. It is a different skill set. You know, it's the same car, the same engine, the same tires for the most part, but it is a completely different skill set. And essentially what it is, is on a road course or street course, the inputs you're getting from the car are very big. An oversteer moment is very dramatic. An understeer moment is very dramatic. A lockup is very obvious, right? On an oval at those speeds, everything is so much smaller, you have to recalibrate your senses. Like the first time I went out on an oval and a test, and I drove around like, how's the car?

36:29James Hinchcliffe:Fine. I'm flat, I'm turning left, I don't know what to tell you. My brain could not comprehend how much understeer that car actually had, or if it was on the edge of adhesion in the back. I mean, you have to just fine tune all of your senses to a completely different level. The speed you're going, obviously, you're having to predict things so much further ahead. The way you've got to read traffic is different. Yeah, specifically in a qualifying setup, you know, you are trying to balance this thing on the absolute limit. You know, the old saying, loose is fast, right? So you've got to have the car fairly free, you're pulling as much downforce as you dare off the car.

37:05James Hinchcliffe:But knowing that if you get it a little wrong, there's usually no coming back. There's very rarely a good save in a qualifying lap on an oval. So it's daunting. How do you know how much to trim the car before it's too late? It's a bit of roulette, to be honest. You know, the old saying goes, there's two types of drivers on ovals, those that have hit the wall and those that will. Essentially, you've just got to learn to feel it. And it does come from just experience. You've got to build up to it gradually. And it's a good thing about indie is you have you know five days of practice six hours a day um to kind of slowly work up to that feeling do you think the great drivers can do both max verstappen on an oval yeah i think he'd figure it out i really do i i think of a description that alex albon gave recently where he said max is so set you know that the mouse settings the mouse settings on maximum that to me seems absolutely perfect very well suited for ovals absolutely and that's why i do think he would be he would be a very quick study on ovals yeah the reason we're talking about this is i wanted to ask you about american drivers i mean alex palau is is dominating this year in indycar he won the indianapolis 500 this year could he make it here and that sounds such an arrogant thing to say but when you look at his junior career he ran out of steam in europe he to go to Japan.

38:27It kind of, it was difficult to get a read on him over here in Europe. Right. Do you think he's got it?

38:33James Hinchcliffe:Yes. Yeah. He's the max of IndyCar. Like I said, if you pulled the other 19 drivers here, who's the best on the grid, you probably get a pretty close to unanimous answer. It would be the same in IndyCar right now. And look, obviously that changes, that fluctuates, right? There's a cycle to that. But Pillow has done some very, very impressive things behind the wheel of an IndyCar in the last, you know, 36 months. What he's doing this year is just, it's outrageous. You don't see that kind of domination in a, I hate to use this word, but a relatively spec series, right? I mean, there's no element.

39:09James Hinchcliffe:It's kind of like Max in the sense that there's no element of the game that he is lacking in. You cannot say there's a driver that's better over a single lap, better over a stint on hearts, better over a stint on sauce, better at restarts, better in laps, better at outlaps. There's nothing that he's missing. Again, drivers don't do this in isolation. His team right now is also just absolutely on fire. And it is that combination. It has to be that combination. But I do think, and I mean, Alex did an FP1 at Austin back in 22, I want to say. He did some TPC testing with McLaren and the feedback was remarkable.

39:46James Hinchcliffe:I remember watching that first practice that he did. First time driving that car because everything that he'd been driving was two years old. And I think he was two tenths off Lando at Coda, which is a long lap, difficult circuit. And that's an impressive display from a driver. So he's, yeah, I think he's the real deal. Cadillac has entered Formula One, deepening the racing pedigree behind every V-Series on the road. Discover a lineup that delivers pure adrenaline in the form of modern luxury. Experience the quickest Cadillac ever, the all-electric Lyric V, the peak performance of the CT5V Blackwing, the nimble agility of the Optic V and the legendary roar of the Escalade V, all engineered to thrill.

40:38Find out more about Cadillac's performance story in Formula One and our race-tested V-Series line-up at cadillac.com.

40:56There's more to come from Hintz shortly. I just wanted to let you know about the other official F1 podcasts you can listen to this week. F1 Nation's preview of the Dutch Grand Prix is out now. I'm joined by Jolien Palmer and Alex Jakes. And this week's F1 Explains is all about pit crews with Haas. That's out on Friday. Just search for F1 Nation and F1 Explains on your podcast app.

41:28can we talk specifically about american drivers first do you think formula one in america needs an american driver because there was this belief i mean i've been doing this for 30 years hinch right and when i back in the bernie era there was this belief we need an american driver Scott Speed, etc. It feels to me that the sport has broken through now and it doesn't need that. Do you agree? I do.

41:56James Hinchcliffe:I do agree that it doesn't need it. Obviously, Formula One in the US is quite healthy at the moment. That said, it's a very proud place and it's not about needing an American driver, but I do think an American winner would kick it up to a whole nother level. You look at how that country celebrates, you know, their, their Olympians, for example, right? That's a, it's a very big deal, that point of pride. And when you look at a global sport, like Formula One, between Cadillac coming in and really embracing the American identity, I think that's going to bring a little bit of pride, but being there isn't good enough.

42:38James Hinchcliffe:good enough isn't good enough. If there's an American that's winning races in Formula One, I really think that would be a huge, huge thing back in the States. Who's the most likely then? Let me throw a name at you. Colton Hurta, right? So he's P1, I think, because he has been in the car. Alpha Tauri were kind of actively pursuing him at one point a few years ago. So they've clearly seen something in him. His McLaren test went incredibly well. Andrea Stella had nothing but good things to say about him there. He's had some European experience. You know, he did some of his junior career over in Europe.

43:11James Hinchcliffe:Lando's teammate. Lando's teammate. And actually, Lando does say he was really brave, quick through the fast corners. There you go. From Lando, that's as he is. So it's so, so different, right? The biggest thing is the tires. The way the tires work in Europe right now compared to how they do in the U.S. is so different that even a driver with some European experience would need to come over here and really do their homework, really put the time in. There'd have to be a lot of prep to get a driver up to speed. But yeah, I mean, Colton is definitely, I think, P1 on the list of prospects. And is he hungry?

43:45James Hinchcliffe:If he got the opportunity, got the super license, would he do it? Yeah, oh yeah, I believe so. Colton's a little bit like Max in his passion of racing. Colton's not a flashy guy. You know, he's a pretty simple guy. He likes waking up and driving race cars. And he's starting to golf a little bit now, which is concerning but other than that you know he so i think any opportunity to drive anything he will do i think he's been pretty successful in anything that he's driven um be a massive undertaking you'd be walking away from a pretty comfortable gig in indycar where he's running a gig he could walk back into at any time in theory but you never know there's no guarantees in the sport right so he would have to do it with the understanding that that's a possibility but there's a small chance that for whatever reason a good seat's not available on the year he decides to come back if he decides to come back so you know are you willing to go drive for a back of the grid team when you're return your triumphant return to indigo so there's a lot of things to consider but yeah i think ultimately if if the opportunity was presented he would take it hinch it's been such a pleasure talking to you thank you for your time you've obviously taken to broadcasting like a duck to water um i did want to ask you one thing about that because you started broadcasting while you were racing.

45:03How difficult was it to one weekend be putting a microphone in someone's face and then the next weekend be wanting to beat them? Very tough, very tough.

45:12James Hinchcliffe:You know, in 2020, I did a partial season in IndyCar and curtailed it with, or dovetailed it, sorry, with some TV work on the races that I wasn't doing. And that was very difficult. That was a challenging year. How did the drivers react to you with a microphone? The drivers were great. I mean, they're all friends, right? Your colleagues, yes, your enemy's on the racetrack, but the camaraderie, I think, in the U.S. is a little bit different. I think the IndyCar paddock's a little bit different than certainly some of the European paddocks when you talk to guys that have come over. Why do you think that is?

45:45James Hinchcliffe:I don't know. I don't know why that is. Because I remember when we ran A1GP, it had very much a North American feel, and all the drivers made that comment. I didn't know any different, but all the all the european guys all the guys that were running you know i guess it was gp2 at the time or whatever we're saying like oh yeah this is just fun we're having more fun here and i don't know why because it's not like the racing's any less serious it's not like we're not you know putting the same kind of pressure on your on ourselves when we're in the cars but yeah something about the off track quality of life's a little bit different is it because the indy car season is so intense you're back to back to back to back to back until it's done and that you guys are just a traveling circus?

46:29James Hinchcliffe:I think the traveling circus part is accurate. And, you know, a lot of drivers, you have motorhomes, you stay at the racetrack. So you're essentially living in a little community together. You, you know, know each other's families. You watch each other's children grow up. I mean, so it is kind of like a big family. Like a family, you have family members you like more than others. You fight like family and eventually you get over it and you move on because they're going to be there tomorrow and they're going to be there next week. So holding grudges is really a pointless endeavor. But no, yeah, the drivers were always really supportive and they were great.

47:03James Hinchcliffe:It was all the internal stuff that you're battling in that sense. Hinch, two more things. Can I get a prediction out of you for the championship in Formula One? No points for saying McLaren are going to win the Constructors' championship. That's literally what I was going to say. Oh, it's such a tough one. It is such a tough one. Do you think it'll go down to the wire and what do you think could you see one of them lando or oscar getting a bit of bit of a distance at this point we know where we are now round 14 when we're having this chat 10 races to go i think there is still enough time for one of them to when the pressure really starts to mount separate themselves but it still does seem like there are tracks that are going to suit one better than the other and they are so close that your you know advantage track is probably going to fall your way barring some issue or or whatever and i haven't done enough analysis of the remaining 10 races to really pick and choose who i think's got more tracks coming up that suit them so honestly at this point it's it's it's so hard to to tell is it gonna be track suitability or is it going to be who deals with the pressure best yes so is it going to be the mental side that wins this more than car setup and feel and i think it's all of it yeah true i really do think it's all of it um they are so closely matched though that yeah at the end of the day i think the the driver that is able to execute the most consistently as the pressure mounts will likely be the one that's, you know, holding a trophy at the end.

48:43James Hinchcliffe:Brilliant. Hinch, look, final one. I'm asking everyone on the pod this year. F1 is 75 years old. Do you have a favorite moment or a favorite memory from the 75 years of Formula One? Jacques Jerez, 97. Okay. Jacques taking the championship, the outrage that I felt against Michael Schumacher on the day. It was a really powerful day for a young Canadian kid who had followed, you know, Jacques IndyCar career, followed his transition over Formula One, thought he should have won the championship in his rookie year. This was going to be the year. And then the way it all went down in that final race, I mean, pure drama, you couldn't write a better script.

49:25James Hinchcliffe:And yeah, I'll never forget that day. I remember exactly where I was when the race was going on. And it was, you know, a very proud moment as a Canadian, you know, wannabe hopeful racing driver to see Canada get their first F1 world champion. And it was crazy close, wasn't it? Do you remember in qualifying, we had three drivers in the exact same lap time. Both Williams and Michael. It's a three decimal place. Yeah, yeah. To peak Formula One. Yeah, absolutely. Hinch, thank you so much for your time. Of course, thanks for having me on.

50:00Who can forget Hareth 97? So much at stake and so much drama on track. Imagine for a second if we had a similar final race showdown between Norris and Piastri this year. Now, I love this chat with Hinch. He just knows racing and he understands its idiosyncrasies, which makes him such an interesting guest. I loved his take on Oscar and Lando and on Max. I want to see Max have a go on an oval just for a test to see how he gets on. And as Hinch says, I'm sure he'd be quick from the get-go. Hinch, thanks for your time. I love that. And I look forward to seeing you again soon when you're back with the F1 Circus in a few weeks' time.

50:41Well, that's almost it for this episode. Thank you very much for listening. And I will, of course, be back next week with another great guest from the world of Formula One. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by Formula One and Audioboom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.

51:04Cadillac has entered Formula One, deepening the racing pedigree behind every V-Series on the road. Discover a line-up that delivers pure adrenaline in the form of modern luxury. Experience the quickest Cadillac ever, the all-electric Lyric V, the peak performance of the CT5V Blackwing, the nimble agility of the Optic V, and the legendary roar of the Escalade V, all engineered to thrill. Find out more about Cadillac's performance story in Formula One and our race-tested V-Series line-up at cadillac.com.