Arlo Parks

0:08Hi, come in.

0:15Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Arlo Parks. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? Yeah, so I decided to wear things that friends of mine had made and all my little lucky charms while I'm wearing my blue Burnham jewelry. And then my friend Jawara created this kind of hardware piecemeal Massive Attack shirts, because I do enjoy kind of wearing references on my chest, on my body. and my friend Victoria made these parachute pants for me and these acne shoes so I think things that feel me and things that carry meaning today the shirt I mean it's all really beautiful and it all seems to sort of gel together but the t-shirt is just fantastic thank you I love that I'm a huge massive attack fan and I've seen them so many times and it feels great that they're somehow in the room thanks to your t-shirt it's really really good yeah and there's something to me about the kind of metallic uh quality in the hardware with the colors and the soft I don't know there's something about the the soft and hard textures that really speaks to me and he's he's wonderful yeah and also there's something about the safety pins the safety and the pin and And they both seem to, massive attacks seem to do that.

1:47They puncture, you know, delusion. And then they hold things together in terms of, well, for me, this is how I recognize them as like the holder together of integrity and, you know, reality. Yeah, that's beautiful. I also feel like the way that they, you know, draw from Caribbean sound system culture, like UK hip hop and poetry and even, you know, the equipment they're using to create their music. It does feel like this blend or this collage of drawing together these different things to kind of have this like real kernel of truth. Yeah. They're so inspiring. Yeah. I like their backdrops too. They have these backdrops created by Adam Curtis, you know, the filmmaker editor.

2:41When I saw them, I saw them, I can't remember if it was in Bristol. I think it was last summer or the summer before. And they had one that said, give me some good news, which I wrote down. Yeah, it's interesting that you do that too. I feel like there are certain kind of sentences and fragments that seem like they repeat themselves and that I somehow see everywhere. And I always note those down because I feel like it's clay for some kind of creation in the future. Do you have a notebook that you use? Oh, yes, I do. I'm such a creature of habit. We were talking before about, you know, people who sprawl and people who organize.

3:22and I think having notebooks I have this moleskins of specific dimensions different colors for each one but I think because I'm constantly kind of in motion and live quite a restless life I'm always writing on little bits of paper and promising that I'll organize them in my notebook and never really doing so so yeah I do yeah I do that too I have millions of lists and I love them

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5:01And you're a singer and songwriter, and you won the Mercury and a Brit when you were 21, and you've been recognized right from the start of your output. And how's your relationship with success, And is it relaxing or is it nerve wracking? That's interesting. I feel like getting those accolades and achieving that success at that age with a record that I created, you know, in a space that was quite unobserved. I was just writing poetry and expressing myself and didn't feel like there were any eyes on me. And then to be praised for something that I created where, you know, the North Star was completely me and my meanness.

5:46I think having that at that age did allow me to relax into this sense of trusting the journey. And I've always wanted to be a career artist. I've always wanted to be somebody who's making albums till the end. And so I think that it definitely allowed me to settle into myself and know that, you know, if I trusted myself, that would be the right thing to do and put me in the right place. Yeah, because when you start something, you kind of presume it will be successful until there's some kind of interrupt, you know, something happens or something doesn't. I mean, I'm only speaking for myself. I feel like I was going to say, I feel like for me, it's almost the opposite.

6:28I know. Like, I think I very much thought that, you know, music was something that I would be doing in obscurity, quietly, away from everyone's eyes until the end. And so I do think that success was a surprise. Maybe the kind of success, you know, because I definitely did feel that, you know, there was something to the work, which is why I shared it. But I think for it to be recognized in this kind of global way that was so much bigger than me was a surprise. It's very, I mean, obviously it's gratifying, but it kind of generates more sort of energy for more success, I think. When something goes well, it makes things go well.

7:18I agree with that. I do think it's quite generative. And I guess it depends maybe on the angle, the type of success that you achieve. But I think when something that you've kind of created from a pure place is accepted in that way, it also generates a lot of confidence, I think. Yeah. It feels like it snowballs in a way. Yeah, that's true. The confidence is a really helpful thing to have. I mean, I know it's obvious, but you don't notice it till you have it, I think. and realize I find decision making gets more succinct it it's there's less I mean I'm have been the queen of self-doubt for a lot of my life so when I notice I'm quick to a decision I I'm quite quite stimulated by that yeah I think I mean it's a muscle almost I think yeah decisiveness and being able to, you know, have that real line between the gut and the action and not really doubting that lightning.

8:22I do think, personally, I think I've always been quite in touch with that part of myself. But I do think that when you're making a decision that isn't just for you and that you know is going to kind of ripple out into the world, it does start to create a little of self-doubt or you're kind of checking again and again to make sure that that's really what you're meant to do there's a line from your new album ambiguous desire that says i kind of wish i wasn't me and i wondered why does that feel tempting and is there someone you've imagined being i think there's something about escape to me i think i often feel you know as quite a cerebral person who spends a lot of time in my own head.

9:07I do think I often fantasize about being outside of it. And I don't necessarily think it's about being a specific person, more, you know, the concept of being outside of my own thoughts and my own patterns. I think I find a lot of comfort in patterns and in doing things a certain way. And I also think in terms of that song, a lot of it is about, you know, being hypersensitive and being so porous to the world and feeling so much all the time, being like, I wonder what it would be like to be a bit less like that. Not that I would really want to be, but it was a fleeting thought. Yeah. I suppose it's magic realism, isn't it?

9:46Thinking if I was them, and I've done that, definitely. There's a few people I think, if I was them, I'd be able to handle this somehow. It's true. It's true, definitely. Because you seem to have a confidence about your identity from the word go and what was the first garment that changed the way you felt about yourself the first thing that comes to mind I think is this denim jacket I got it at one of those kind of kilo vintage sales in Camden when I was maybe you know 13 or 14 and I remember the process of sewing on my little badges that I felt kind of announced my identity in terms of the bands that I loved.

10:29I had my little Arctic Monkeys one and had, you know, a Smashing Pumpkins one. And there was something about how baggy and oversized it was. It felt like this little cocoon or this shield. And I just remember wearing it day in and day out. My mom was like, are you ever going to take that jacket off? I was like, this jacket is me. I'll never take it off. There was something about that jacket that I still, I still think about it. I still want to wear things that make me feel like that denim jacket made me feel. It's a real link. It's a clue, isn't it? Exactly. And you grew up in Hammersmith in London and you're half Nigerian, a quarter Chadian and a quarter French.

11:13And you've said no one else in your family is remotely creative. And I wondered where your love of reading comes from. and you because you cite so many different literary references yeah I think I think the urge to write came from within but my love of literature you know my dad would play audiobooks almost constantly maybe even more so than music and it would always be you know books that he wanted to read it would be Kurt Vonnegut and Gray and Green and Moby Dick Treasure Island And so I think at first my relationship to language was that it was this puzzle and this mystery. You know, I would only understand it in parts and fragments and would go to the dictionary to look up words that I didn't know.

12:01And there was something about, felt like uncovering treasure in a way. And so I think after, you know, having that in my younger years, I just became fascinated with poetry and literature and, you know, the way that books made me feel. and I think because I was quite a solitary child not necessarily unhappy but I just I like to be by myself with my books it just became this refuge for me and it still is it always has been yeah it's interesting Moby Dick for some reason is a book that surfaces in every writer's repertoire from when it was first written to now it's the sort of linchpin I must reread I read it sort of a hundred years ago but it keeps coming up and I can't even remember what it's about except for it has some sort of thing yeah I think it's there's something about this there's something about the white whale there's something about this kind of the symbol of that and this being you know this creature that kind of haunts this person and there is this kind of fascination that you know capturing this whale is going to be the thing that you know this sense of revenge this kind of cyclical quality to the book I was always fascinated by that I think that and mythology and animals and you know I was always really inspired by that as a child there was something about being fixated on this one thing that will kind of heal well supposedly would heal some internal thing and kind of finish this loop that's something that was really fascinating to me as a child because it sort of has a soundtrack that goes with it doesn't it it's as soon as you say the word Moby Dick there's the you can hear the sound of that kind of haunting sound of whales and the pathos of a whale and the huge history and and like that it does feel mythological I I love mythology too yeah the kind of ancient these kind of feel like these ancient wanderers um yeah there's something about Wales that I've also been fascinated I love this Wales detour but yes yes I agree with you well they seem when I was kind of 10-ish I they seem like a sim again I was looking for these these kind of places of um um power of good values of truth of daring and not just in the greek warriors but some something about a whale had this um this atmosphere about it that as a child i i clung on to and thought yes i you know i'm gonna be with the whale and i'll i'll be saved i'll be saved i do think i mean there's something about that also for me the sense of like the deep sea and that kind of ambiguity and that vastness was always really fascinating to me I think I mean earlier we were talking about the romantics and the sublime and you know this kind of destructive power of nature and I was always wanting to be you know if I was at the foot of a mountain or you know a massive kind of vista and I felt really small I really liked that feeling there was something really comforting to me about you know feeling like a small little ant and faced with the vastness of nature gosh that's that seems like a good sign I think so yeah being comfortable with being small I guess in a way you're right yeah and as a kid did you had a have a code way of dressing did you did you dress to stand out or blend in?

15:53I think it was a little bit of both. I always kind of, I always felt like quite an androgynous person. And so I guess I maybe dressed in a way, you know, it was always quite baggy and oversized, really inspired by, you know, kind of sportswear and practical things. And that felt like, you know, in a way it was kind of concealing and shrouding me but I always felt really myself in those kind of clothes but I was kind of the only person I knew who dressed in that way so I think in a way I did stand out and felt content with that too so it was it was a little bit of both. Yeah because you said I feel this need for forward motion all the time and And I know that feeling very well.

16:42And is it a fear-driven thing or restlessness? And I wondered if you remember the first time you were conscious of this and how you dealt with it. I think it's a little bit of both. I think I've always felt a little bit uncomfortable in stillness. I think sometimes I'm afraid of being stagnant and I'm afraid of being in one place for too long. I think there's something really kind of voraciously curious about me as a person so I think I'm always kind of seeking and searching and I've always been like that as a child I think just having a complicated relationship with being present looking to the future looking to the past I think I've always been you know trying to keep hold of all of those things at once which of course you know isn't possible but I think even as a writer and a creative person I've always been somebody who likes to keep moving and learning so it's not a fear it's not a kind of anxious like I have to move I mean it probably is a little bit anxious I think I think I always have this sense of you know it sounds a little bit morbid it's not mortality in a morbid way but it's more that there's so much that I want to do and see in my life that I feel like I have to kind of constantly be moving towards that and absorbing as much as I can.

18:10And also just being a creative person who wants to kind of sprawl in many different directions, you know, write screenplays and, you know, get into other parts of songwriting also. I do feel like I need to be making progress in all those different directions at once. Maybe also just being young and excited, you know. yeah that's great to be young and excited instead of young and paranoid which is that's true that's very true because I think of that um there's a certain thing in one's 20s I find that it's like life finishes at 30 so if you haven't done it in your 20s it's like life's over and then And I found when I got to 30, I thought, oh, my God, I'm actually young.

18:57I should just enjoy some of this instead of being driven by the humanities at my heels, you know, just like in this sense of. But maybe because I wasn't really achieving stuff in my 20s, but it's a wonderful thing. thing. I feel connected to the second part of what you said, because for me, the idea of, you know, aging and gaining wisdom is really inspiring to me. I remember reading, I think it was Marina Abramovich's memoir, or maybe it was, yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. And just her talking about, you know, the work that she was creating later in life, the fact that she had to, you know, accumulate that, that confidence, um, over time and that wisdom of course and that she could never have made the work that she made in her later years when she was in her 20s she just wasn't there yet and I'm excited for that kind of gradual series of arrivals over the rest of my life that's exciting to me yeah because you've cited Zadie Smith as a big heroine and I wondered what do you find so compelling about the way she uses language?

20:08I think she's just, she just creates such rich stories and these, you know, really three-dimensional characters that I feel like I know. I remember when my dad gave me White Teeth and it was actually the first book he ever really gave me and was like, you should read this. Yeah. And I just remember being so moved. She just has this sensibility that's, you know, is just really sharp and intuitive and natural. She seems like such a natural writer. And we exchange emails occasionally, which I like. An email feels like a letter in a way, and I love letters. But there's just always been something in her fiction.

20:46And also, you know, her as a playwright, I saw The Wife of Wilsden relatively recently, and I really enjoyed that too, and how she kept that kind of organic, fluid style in her other medium. she's just amazing yeah she is amazing in fact has she been on this she has she was okay on the first my first recording was with her and then rick owens wow and i had a picture of certain people who i thought would really illuminate this idea that had been And kind of I'd wanted to try and make work for a few years. And so I had the good fortune to she was the first person and Rick came in the evening. And I just loved how she taught.

21:42I knew she loved clothes. And then her writing is so amazing. And she's such a literary figure. But there's none of that kind of almost kind of indulgence in crusty dryness that sometimes people buy into. And I think writing is the most glamorous thing you can do on earth. It's true. I agree with that. It's so exciting. You know, it's so appealing and it's so sexy. And she really kind of captivates, you know, she encapsulated that. and I thought, I have to have her. There is something very glamorous about her, definitely. Yeah. In this effortless way, and it does find its way into the writing and the way she talks about relationships and chemistry and pain, it still has that sense of poise and style.

22:39I think it's her sense of style just in all ways. Yeah, yeah. Because Sadie changed her name from Sadie and you changed yours from Anais Mourinho to Arlo Parks and did you need a different name in order to be as intrepid as you are I definitely I think so I think for me it was almost like putting on this they're putting on an armor or you know allowing myself to experiment in a way that felt a little bit more anonymous and a little bit less observed and it also just almost put me You know, when I was writing as Arlo Parks, there was this sense of, you know, daring that came over me or this playfulness, this sense of experimentation.

23:26I think as a person, especially as a teenager, I think there was a kind of rigidity about me and the way that I was in my daily life. I think I was relatively shy and to myself, but I think when I was writing or playing guitar or exploring sonically, there was this kind of courage that came out of me that I kind of associated with Arlo Parks or having a name other than my own. Yeah, it's interesting that I think any device you can find to get yourself out there is a great device. Definitely. I remember Zandra Rhodes talking about how her mother called her Zandra because she wanted her to have this already something to negotiate with.

24:18And it was everyone always called her Zandra. And there was something where she had to fight to get people to call her by this actual name that she'd been given. And already there was the exercise in being recognised. Yeah, and in inserting yourself. in that way. And I do think names hold a lot of power, even when you think about, you know, the names of records or films. I think there is a power to, you know, the first thing that you see on the, you know, on the front, you see the cover of the book, but then also, you know, that name emblazoned on the front and it, yeah, there's a promise there that I think I really connect to.

25:00even though when it comes to writing I think the the name of the song or the record usually does come at the end um because I guess I want a sense of what it is that I'm trying to describe yeah and encapsulate after the fact yeah I was going to ask you about record covers actually because they had such a big aesthetic influence on me and I remember certain ones so specifically And I wondered if there was a record cover that had particularly affected you or that you'd noted. Definitely. I mean, we were talking about Massive Attack. I remember Mezzanine. And also all the kind of single covers of the Blue Lions record as well.

25:42I think Mezzanine, that kind of metallic, you know, the insect and that eeriness and that foreboding. and then you know that song angel or inertia creeps there's something kind of crawling about that that whole record but in the best way so i love that record cover and then you know almost on the polar opposite end i love the pink moon uh nick drake album cover i haven't seen that it's really beautiful it's this you know quite it's like this green painted kind of surreal landscape that I think really connects to the dreaminess of the record and of the music but I think I was always attracted to either album covers that felt like they really grated against the content and there was a friction there or that felt like you know they spoke to each other really naturally I think it was one or the other yeah and I always remember um Marvin Gaye what's going on and being totally obsessed with what he was wearing and how perfect he looked and this patent leather or leather jacket you just see the collar yeah and the black roll neck exactly just thinking there's so little but so much there and how is that so exactly and it also makes me think of uh makes me think of bjork for some reason on all her different album covers and the way that you know the light and the fabric interact and how i mean i remember listening to something that she had called sonic symbolism which was kind of about the symbolism of the the clothes and the artwork and how that related to the music in each era and she was talking about her album post and you know being immersed in trip-hop and bristol and glasgow and being in the city um and the lights and the color and what she was wearing and there is this kind of sense of it being almost this flare so much life and color in it so i i think of her as well and the way that what she wears kind of feels like it links to the soundtrack of the music and And as she changes and her artistry changes, it's really interesting.

27:56Yeah. Yeah, I think she's written one of the best songs about emotional pain. There's a line that goes something about my own private torture. And I thought, God, yes, how does she know? You know, it's so, so good. And I love her work. In your song Room on your album My Soft Machine, you described the fraughtness of being involved with someone where drugs came first. And what do you think makes you the carer and not the actor-outer? Oh, that's interesting. I think I've always been that way. I think there's always been a desire to kind of nurture and save in my personality. I think I often have also found that role in in groups of friends or in relationships in general I think being the one that maybe is a little bit more kind of calm and grounded and stoic and is able to kind of be a rock or an anchor in those more turbulent times but I do think you know on the inside we all have that inner child that is you know that does kind of act out and come out in moments but I do think a lot of my songs are about you know observing friends or lovers or people who are moving through these things because when I am actually living that there is a helplessness or there's an inability to put it anywhere other than in the song because it's not about me you know so I think it comes out in journaling and in poetry especially in those situations where I feel kind of frozen and where the focus is on on taking care of this person who is struggling.

29:44Well you describe it so well in your songs because a lot of your songs refer to that and every all the things that I've been listening to you it sort of springs up like a you know like a mirage almost and you I can picture those scenes and that the feeling of it is so is so powerful and I really recognize that it's such a specific observation that a lot of people don't make or they miss it or they don't want to. Yeah and I do think I've always been almost hyper aware of you know those little micro just micro things in general but you know even in a in a group of friends I can always feel when somebody is being a little bit left out or there's some kind of unspoken discomfort.

30:39I always feel so attuned to that. And I can't help but act. I think some people ignore those little signs, but I think it's kind of built into me to respond to them. Maria, you have a podcast now and you need to start acting like it. What's the first step as a podcaster? Well, you have to ask lots of questions. I'm Maria Sharapova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. I have a few Pretty Tough questions for you.

31:16Okay. Ready. Do not sugarcoat something for me. No. No. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Pretty Tough is your front row seat to the women who have demonstrated the power in being unapologetic in their pursuits. I hope you'll join us. New episodes drop Wednesdays on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app.

31:49Immigration may be Donald Trump's signature issue. President Trump is now targeting predominantly Democratic cities for ice raids and deportations. protesters clashing with immigration and customs enforcement agents in Minneapolis. We will begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal aliens back to the places from which they came. But what we want to do in this space is talk about America and politics beyond the current president. So what do most Americans think about deportation and border security, period? I think that Americans are definitely against the kind of violent displays that we've seen in the street from ICE.

32:26When it comes to the question of deportation, the answer is more complicated. My sense is that people want border at the border. They don't like the idea of having no idea who's coming into the United States at any given time. The view on immigration from the bottom up instead of the top down. That's this week on America Actually, every Saturday in your audio and video feeds. in 2022 when you were 22 you cancelled your u.s tour saying your mental health had deteriorated to a debilitating place and it clearly takes a lot to stop you and what was the thing that stopped you in this moment i think it just got to a breaking point you know as honestly since i was child, I've always been the one who put pressure on myself.

33:18I had a real sense of how lucky I was to be in this position where I could write and create and share that with people. So I think it meant that I shouldered a lot more than I should have. And it came from a place of real excitement. You know, everything was new and fresh and exciting, but it got to a place where the pacing just left me so exhausted and I felt like a husk of myself you know somebody who's I'm always you know quite full of life and quite a vibrant person and I felt that you know fading away and that's what made me feel like I needed a break and even though I was doing things that I loved there was something that was kind of eroding at me and I think it was just the sheer volume you know I was only sleeping two or three hours a night.

34:07And I was, hadn't been home in, you know, nine months. I'd been home for one day in nine months. And it got to the point where I knew that, you know, in order to preserve that excitement and that life, I had to, you know, stop for a moment. And I only, you know, I only canceled a few dates. I was only home for like four days, but I needed, I needed something. And that was enough to, you know, sit, drink tea, you know eat sleep 14 hours a day and that's just what I needed I think in order to keep going yeah because it's a term that you read about a lot you know having a breakdown but doing a lot of have you know having a big life and doing a lot sometimes I wonder what what's the moment where you can't reset yourself because I often think about that and think what does that actually feel like when you know you you have to stop rather than doing some breathing or you know doing the hoovering or whatever it is that calms you down and then you're back what is it that stops you for a bit do you remember that yeah there is that elastic limit yeah when when you just can't find your shape again.

35:29And I think maybe it's that it's when the things that your whole life have been sources of joy and nourishment and the things that always make you feel better start not being able to pull you out anymore. And that's when you really do need to stop because especially, you know, when I think about longevity, when I think about doing something for decades, pacing is so important. And I didn't want to be somebody who you know had this like bright shooting star and wasn't able to you know have this longer arc of creativity and you know what mattered to me most was feeling like I was in touch with myself and my art and my fans and the people around me but also my family my partner you know being a human being and maintaining those relationships was also so important to me so when something feels really deeply misaligned and those you know those people or those things that always bring you comfort can't really touch you anymore I think that's when it's really time to to stop yeah definitely and do you find there are certain clothes that make you feel better when you're feeling low definitely I think for me it's always it's always leather for some reason I think like A leather jacket and leather pants.

36:50That feels like my armor. There's something about it to me. Where I feel so myself, I think it's the androgyny of it. I think it's the way that, you know, when you wear a leather jacket over years, it really kind of, you know, your shape fills it in this perfect way. um and I think also you know having jewelry and little charms that friends have given me over time carrying those in my pocket you know my my partner gave me this little gold matchbox with these doves on it and I think when I have things like that and I carry them with me that makes me feel protected in a way there's something that you know regulates me I think um having things that have meaning and have accumulated meaning you know as I've carried them around with me through airports and cities and venues yeah there's something about just that act of putting them on as well that's like I'm not I'm just not going to be a blob I'm going to Yeah, exactly.

37:57Exactly. You're so right. Remind myself of. You're so right of the fact that I'm alive. You know, that's so funny. That's exactly how I feel. I think that's what the leather jacket does for me. The leather jacket and, you know, like a chunky chain and some, you know, stompy boots that made me feel like I can get out and dance and, you know, take ownership of my life again. I think, yeah. Anti-blob mode. I love that. It's a very 70s town blob, but it does the job. Yes. Because you've been dressed by some of the world's greatest designers, including Tom Brown and Simone Rocha and Gucci. Which designer do you think really gets you?

38:43Oh, that's a great question. I think I do want to say Simone. Because I've been wearing her clothes for a long time And there's something about, you know, the contrast between that femininity and, you know, the embroidery and the pearls and that delicate quality with, you know, the slightly more oversized silhouettes and the stompy boots. And I think as a human being, I think that masculinity and femininity are always, you know, constantly tussling and come to the forefront in me differently on different days. And I think the one I'm wearing, Simone, I feel like I can, you know, both can occupy me.