Fashion Neurosis with Eric Cantona

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1:10Hi, come in.

1:18Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Eric Cantona. Thank you. Why did you choose what you're wearing today? I'm a bit fed up with all the dark colors. I used to wear orange clothes in 2000 and then all blue, all kinds of blue for 15 years. And now I'm fed up with all cars, black and dark gray, dark blue, white. I remember when I was young, in the 70s, 80s, we had a lot of colours in the street with all the cars. And now it's the same with the clothes. I was at the airport and I looked around me and everybody is dressed in black, dark blue, dark grey. So now I like to wear colours. I have to say I've never seen you in an outfit like this in the years I've known you it's a bit new I knew I'd be surprised by something and today it's the colours of your outfit it's a bit of pop it's great yeah and it's because in Arabian you read from the right to the left and you know who means I got nothing yeah and they play with the name of Andy Ward.

2:55And it's a bit, yeah, I like it. It's Moroccan. I love it. It's a friend of me who is a great photographer. It's called Hassan Ajaj. And he designed it? He designed it, yeah. Designed this one. Designed a chi, makes a chi. He has a lot of talent. He's very creative. I went to school as a child in Morocco not for very long in Marrakech in Marrakech, so he's from Marrakech right, I mean this was when I was 7 I think how long did you stay there? I stayed in Morocco for 2 years but not all the time in Marrakech but once I got familiar with the writing in Arabic, then I couldn't remember which way to write in English Yeah.

3:46And Rashida, my wife, who is a original from Algeria, his father, a father and a mother. When she was young, she started to learn how to write. But at school, she was writing French, not from the left to the right, but from the right to the left. So the teacher said to her parents that's just to stop because it will be mixed. It's too confusing. Which is, I think, very stupid, I think. Because the kids can learn a lot of things. Even if they are mixed, you explain to them. They get the hang of it, don't they? Yeah. Do you have any obsessions running at the moment? Obsession? I'm full of obsession.

4:37Anything in particular at the moment? I know you're a very kind of focused person. Yeah, yeah. And that requires an obsessive nature. And I wondered what was at the top of your kind of obsession pile at the moment. Yeah. At the moment, I'm writing something and I want to finish it as soon as possible. I don't know why, because I've got plenty of time. But maybe when I am concentrating on something, I want to be concentrating on it for 100 % and then I can think about something else. So, I spent three hours on the plane, it was like five minutes. So, obsession can be good also, because a flight can be long, very long.

5:33and when you do something interesting that you like you're passionate about time go so fast but i think i'll arrive now in time i will be 58 soon and i want to to take time also but not on planes it's nature listening to the birds smellings nature I want my ear concentrate on something else I'm I feel at the moment that I'm in like you know you know wheels in a system and I need time to because if I concentrate on something on a noise, I don't hear anything else. I concentrate on the sound of nature, on the leaves, on the rains, I will not hear anything else. It's all in the brain. And I think it's important to take time and to be connected, really connected to the nature, the sounds of the nature, the smells of nature, the energy of nature.

6:59Have you always been able to be like that? One of my idols is my grand-uncle that I never met. It's called Auguste. He lived in Ardèche in France. He was a, I don't know in French we say Hermit, I don't know in English, but he lived in the mountains. A hermit. Hermit. Yeah, he was an hermit and yeah, he was completely in connection with nature. I never met him. He died, I wasn't even born, but my grandmother told me a lot of story about him and maybe it was uh maybe it was ways she she said she she she she told me the stories i don't know but i really love him my wife rachita she she did an album and i wrote the lyrics and uh and one of the journalists from a very cultural magazine in france in charge of the music.

8:05People ask her if she listened to the album of Rashida Brackney. And she said, no, I cannot listen to an album with the lyrics written by Eric Anderle, an ex-footballer. Why not? And then she did a new album with a band, with a very famous French singer called Gaëtan Houssel. and I wrote one of the songs the lyrics of the song called Le Tempas and they went to see her and said did you listen to the album of Lady Sir the name of the band is Lady Sir she said oh yes I love my favorite song is Le Tempas because I took another name it wasn't Eric Antoneau the name was Auguste Raurick Auguste was the name of my grand-uncle who lived in nature and Raurik was the name of my grandparents on my mother's side.

9:09So she didn't know that it was me who wrote this song. So sometimes we have to dribble. Yes. Yeah, as the next footballer I know how to do it. I can play with the people if they want to play. Can I ask you, if you fancy someone and don't like the clothes they're wearing, does it kill your attraction to them? If I fancy someone in, what, physically? Yeah. Intellectually? Physically? Yeah. I don't think I can fancy somebody who is not dressed the way I like. And I also can really like somebody who is not physically so, you know, what we say that it's a beautiful person. If she has a look, you know, she has a certain way to move, to look, how she's dressed.

10:07I think for me it's the most important thing, which is, I think, the beauty of inside. So I cannot fancy somebody who is not dressed the way I like. I like when I see something charming in somebody. It's kind of test. Like if I will speak with her, I don't think we will have a connection. Maybe it's a bit rude, maybe. I don't know. But it tells us a lot in terms of creativity, in terms of tests and everything, the way you dress, the way you speak, the way you move, the way you smile, the way you speak. I think it's all in the... This is the only thing interesting. There is a song of Serge Gainsbourg called La beauté cachée du lait du lait.

11:11I don't know. You don't know this song? I don't know. La beauté cachée du lait du lait. This is the hidden beauty of the horrible man. Because he didn't like himself physically. He said that he was... So the hidden beauty of the horrible man is that? Yeah, yeah. So this is inside beauty. Everybody speaks about it, but me, I need to feel something. But I think it's the same for everybody. The way you dress is... I like it or I don't like it doesn't mean that it's nice or not. It's just my feeling, my own feeling. And it's important. And I like when it's not too... You know that I feel that somebody didn't take so long to do it also.

12:02You know, just naturally and spontaneously dressed with spontaneity also. Yeah. Just have something special. I don't like when it's too, you see that it, they decided for hours as a way that we dress, with the way they cut their hair and everything. I don't like this. It's too complicated. I like spontaneity. And I like artists, Pollock or Carre L 'Appel, all these kind of people who do painting in just a few minutes. It's more subconscious. conscience? Apparently Velasquez painted very fast and he also, yeah, my father told me he painted very fast and he painted clothes really well. I mean I'm always quite interested in looking at clothes in paintings and my father said he, you know, when he was painting those royal families he had to do it really quickly.

13:09Yeah, but fast in this kind of painting? Well I think probably faster than my father who took about a year to do each painting. Yeah. It's exciting. I agree. Let's be honest. Are you happy with your job? Like really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted in the first place. But still, we stick it out and we give reasons like what if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place. And maybe the most common one, isn't everyone kind of miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving.

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14:41I like when you feel this freedom. Yeah. This freedom and this impulsivity. Is it English? Yes, yeah. Impulsivity, this kind of thing. But also, for instance, the painting of your father, You feel this freedom. You feel this. It's unique. This is something from the feeling I got. When you see the paintings, it's like when you see somebody in a room and this is something special around him. Or around him. And I think the painting of your father is something that you cannot see. it's something that you feel around around the painting the woman or the man I'm glad you think so because it's just I've seen some exhibition women in every painting I think I feel this I read something Al Pacino he said to the DP remember you have to catch my soul I think this is great I love that and the painting of your father he catched the soul of his or her model Do you remember the first clothes you bought with your first paycheck from football?

16:19I remember it was it was a a trouser Benetton I wanted everybody to know that it was a Benetton I was a bit stupid I was 16 maybe so I took the Benetton inside of the trouser you know and I you sewed it yeah on the pocket you know that's fantastic so everybody knows yeah but it was so expensive for me you know So I wanted everybody to know that it was a Benetton at this time. It was great. It's still better. Yeah, it was an amazing thing at the time. It's like the sappers, you know, who keep the labels on all their clothes. And now I'm completely the opposite. If there is a brand somewhere, I don't buy it.

17:12Yeah. This is the only thing I've seen you wear with a writing. Yeah, but nobody knows. No one knows what it is. If it was Andy Warhol that everybody can read. I don't think it's a brand. No. Andy Warhol. I don't think it's a brand. Nobody can read it. That's great. It's good. It looks idiosyncratic, which is something I associate with you anyway. Yeah, but... Because it's the way they do it. And the people don't realize, we live in a world now that you have to wear a clothes with a big name here, a big brand. Like when I told you I was stupid when I was a kid, I wanted everybody to know that it's Beneteau.

18:06They use a naivety of the people saying we will make a dress with our brand big ear so the people will buy it because they will be proud to wear a big brand. And at the same time the people make advertising for these brands. and it's a perfect reflection I think of the world we live in. It's funny though because there's something I can't help slightly admiring when someone's wearing something with a brand name on and they clearly don't even know what it is but it looks good as a decoration and then I think that's the ultimate achievement that it's gone into a different universe of meaning. It's just, it's a pattern and people are responding to it because of that.

19:12Yeah, but most of the time it's just a name. Yeah, it is. It's just the name of the brand. And if there is not, if you don't have a big name on the bag, you know, for women, maybe you will not buy it. It's like art, like paintings, like everything, like artists. What makes the difference between them? Is it the quality of the artist or is it because he's surrounded by people? The value, the real value of clothes, browns, or an artist, contemporary artist. it's very subjective. Yeah, I suppose that's why sometimes I hate those brands and sometimes I love them and I'm quite interested to find when I like it, even though I hate it.

20:13So I quite like having my mind sort of almost being seduced by something I don't like that I suddenly find I'm liking. When did you start to feel that clothes could be a tool in your life. When you played for Manchester United, you used to tan the collar up of your football shirt. I wondered how you decided to do this. Where did that come from? Because it was such a good look. It was so definitive and it felt like part of your winning abilities that you had this thing. I didn't really thought about it before. I think it was more something like came like this naturally and then we won and then like superstition.

21:08I didn't think about it. And then it became like a brand. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't do it again because it was something special maybe. It has been a superstition until the last game of my career. So then you always did it? It was just superstitions. Yeah, they're important, those superstitions, unless they prevent you from doing things. Yeah, but for some... In football, it's difficult because we don't have a lot of things. We have a pair of socks and shorts. Yeah. But for me, it's very, very important how I feel, what I felt on the pitch. Really, the colors. If I don't feel comfortable in it, I need to feel, I don't know if I am elegant or I was elegant, but I needed to feel elegant.

22:16maybe because the Dutch from the 70s I grew up with the Dutch with Holland with Johan Cruyff they were all very elegant Ajax Amsterdam they were all very elegant it was a school of elegance until now what kind of thing how did they how did they look they were not the shirt was nice the shirt was orange maybe it was the first time we saw an orange shirt we didn't watch many games on TV because there were not so many games on TV and when I was very young it was black and white TV so the first time I saw the orange shirt from Holland was something special maybe it was I told you we started this interview and I said to you that in early 2000 I dressed in orange, a lot of t-shirts orange.

23:18I like this color, it's a positive color. The Buddhists also use this color. I don't know, it's very positive. So they were very elegant, Ola and Ajax, Johan Cruyff, Ridicor. like they were selected by a first buyer for their elegance. So when I played, I needed to feel elegant. And if I didn't have the right number, I remember in Leeds, I played in Leeds a game, because at that time we didn't have a number for all the season when I arrived in Leeds. even when I arrived in Manchester the first season and then we had a number for all the seasons so I played with a number two or number three I think because I played at the place of the right or left back, I don't know so I had his number because the rest of the team didn't have officially this number but when they were playing, they were in the first eleven for instance the number 10 was Gary McAllister and he played and he had the number 10.

24:38But if he was injured and I played, I could have the number 10. But me, I had the number two or number three, which is very defensive and I didn't feel comfortable at all. Really? But I scored a goal. I scored a goal in this game. But I remember I hated this game. I hated this game. That's fascinating. I hate it. I hate it. You didn't feel - Like in the clothes, you like it or not. Now, I look at my clothes, I put this trousers, I put this shirt. I feel it or not. It's nice, it's not nice, I don't care. I don't just like when I do a lot of things in my life, I want to do it quick and feel freedom.

25:32I don't want to look bad, but I believe in my instinct. And because I believe in my instinct, if I feel it, I take this shirt with this trouser, this is the right decision. If I start to think about it, I will feel bad all the day. Yeah, I'm the same, actually. because I find even though I need to be prepared for things to do and to wear things, if I organize it in advance, it just feels like it doesn't have any life. And I find sometimes I get the best outfits when I throw things on or if I'm really cold, I put too many things on and then I quite like the way that looks and I'll use that. and then sort of things that, like I wear socks with everything because I'm cold, but I like the way it looks as well.

26:26And I like that feeling of, you know, you've just got the clothes, the last clothes on earth and you've put them on, but you've managed to give them some style or some polish just before you rush out of the door. Yeah, but you have to be, it's why I say that I believe in my instincts. And I want to believe in my instincts. Also, it's practice. It depends on how I take the decisions. And I become the same, I'm getting old now, I become the same with the people. I know the people I like, I know the people I feel comfortable with, I know some people I feel a good energy, a bad energy, and now more and more I don't want to waste time.

27:17I remember we were up. It was a projection of a TV series I did in a festival. And I was in front of the restaurant with the team of the film of the series we had. And it was full of people. And we were waiting to find the table. And I said, I waste my time. I don't want to be full of people surrounded by people. people that I will make an effort to speak and we make an effort to love and we make effort on everything and I don't want to. I never in the past I didn't do a lot of efforts but more and more I don't want to make any effort but for the people I love, my friends I love, for my family I can't make an effort and I do it with a great pleasure, like you give a present to somebody.

28:21And the people I love, I prefer their... The priority is their feeling much more than mine. But for the other people, I don't care. I don't care. And I don't care what I think about. If they're not happy, I don't care. I'm just respectful. I say thank you, I say please, I say everything. But I don't want to waste time. I don't, in 20 years I will be there, or maybe before, I don't know. But the time goes so fast, I don't want to. Yeah. There is so many things to do, so many things I want to do. I was going to ask you about what you thought was the best kit out there, and like the players that wore those super short shorts.

29:12But you talked about the Dutch and how elegant they were. Yeah. I remember I didn't like the shirt we had in Manchester the last season at Spender. I didn't really like it. Was that the red one? Yeah, it's always red, but every season they change it, you know. Oh, OK. Every season, every club, they change it because they have thousands of fans. They have to sell shirts. Everybody wants the new ones. This is a business. But for the player, when you feel comfortable on the kind of shirt, you don't want to change it. And sometimes it's better, sometimes it's good, and sometimes you don't feel as comfortable.

30:03But it's you. It's you with yourself. but now I know that if I don't feel comfortable if I don't like something for instance I write a lyrics or I do a painting sometimes you say it's nice you feel inside of you that it's not the right thing you want to do you didn't do it with all the freedom you wanted to do it and you want to tell yourself, you want to persuade yourself. Persuade yourself. You want to persuade yourself that it's nice, it's good, oh no, it's good, inside of you. But you know that it's not nice. And every day you feel this, you feel uncomfortable with it until the day you put a color on it and you do something else on top of it.

31:02and by experience now I know that if I don't look at it with the freedom I need it to do to have when I do it I will not like it for life I will not like it I know that will not I don't have to persuade myself you get the impression of being supremely confident and I wondered if you'd ever had any hang-ups or any insecurities about your body? It was last week. I woke up before my wife, Rashida, that you know. And I used to hear birds in the garden. And I didn't hear the birds in the garden. And I said to myself, I become deaf. So I waited to wake up and I said to her,

31:53it's strange we don't hear birds today and she said to me yes it's because it's so cold so i was happy that she didn't she didn't hear birds so i wasn't deaf but yeah so sometimes i feel insecure with my body

32:18fashion designers i think i i've got a friend who's called anthony price who's a fashion designer and he said if we were confident or in our bodies we'd never be designers because if you're perfect you don't only need a pair of jeans and a t-shirt but most designers well certainly me and him we have loads of hang-ups and loads of insecurities and And it makes me look for how to be a master in proportion and how to shape things in a way so that you can step into them and kind of project this image that makes you feel your best look. And then it gives you an extra courage. I think it's in the same chapter that the answer we gave before, with the beauty.

33:18Yes, yeah. I think it's the same. We have to find in art, in creativity, in the world we breathe around us, the observation of the world or the way we dress, the way we express ourselves. we have to find this beauty and then we will feel comfortable with what we are. I think if we don't feel well psychologically or physically, we have to find a way to feel better. And I think most of the artists, they feel uncomfortable in some way and they have to express themselves to be able to live in this world. To be able to have friends, to have family. That's why sometimes they ask me a question why I do so many things.

34:16Just because I need to express myself. It's a kind of, I don't know if it's a kind of, it's not physically, it's psychologically my concern. For me. Yeah, it's not physically. Because physically I was, I played football at a high level. But psychologically, I really need to express myself and find a way to be able to live with myself and also live in connection with the people around me who are in this world also of expressing themselves. Like dealing with a restlessness. restlessness what does that mean like uh you know when you feel like you need to be moving but not necessarily literally but kind of finding out what your next curiosity is because i find i get very down if i i get very depressed and go into a sort of passive gloomy place and so i need to have challenges quite a lot but not challenges that are so great that they crush me well now I know myself better I recognize this restlessness and it's I need to experiment I need to go a little further and yeah that's partly what this is about I've been wanting to tell stories about my experiences in this world of fashion and clothes and how it changes how people feel about themselves, which I'm always really interested in.

36:07In fact, if you're feeling low, do you find there are certain clothes that make you feel better or is there something you go to? Yeah, I think so. It's why I had different periods, as I told you. In early 2000, I and it was a rain and then blue. I love all kinds of blue, mix of kind of blue. And then I fell up. And I want to have colors. So it helped me. I don't know, it's because psychologically I am in a certain state that I need to change. And I don't know what to change, I don't know. But for sure now I need colors. I really yesterday I saw a car very old car yellow yellow orange and I was with my daughter and she said yes it's orange but not orange like in a supermarket orange like the orange you find in gardens not in England because you don't have orange in the gardens but orange in the gardens in Portugal or in Morocco for instance, this kind of orange, natural orange.

37:25And this guy was so nice. And I remember when I was young, we had a lot of cars, green, yellow, orange, blue, but blue, a nice blue, blue sky, different blue, wonderful. And now it's all dark everywhere. So I decided now I will put some colors until the next decision. But now I need to have colors, like pop. It's like a magic carpet. It's like your transition is with these colors until you get to the next. Exactly. I know that it will be the next. I hope so. You're very good at the next, I think. In fact, when you're acting in movies or playing a part. Are you involved in choosing the clothes or how important is that for you to find the character?

38:27It's important that we do it together with the director, the chief customer, and me. Yeah, it's important that we all agree, but I really need to feel comfortable in them, on the clothes and I need to have natural things cotton linen all this kind of thing I hate synthetics synthetics yeah synthetics like I hate to cross because now we have to cross every time in the airport somewhere with thousands of perfumes oh yeah synthetics perfumes big browns But I hate this smell. I hate them. I love the perfumers. People who are really passionate by it. And it's all natural. I love Serge Lutens. It's so nice.