Fashion Neurosis with Haim

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1:10Hi, come in.

1:17Welcome to Fashion Neurosis Haim. Hi. This is the first time I've had more than one guest and I bought extra pillows especially for you. Can I start with you, Este, because you're the eldest and I'm the eldest too in my family and I wanted to afford you your rank. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? I'm wearing Uchila Safdie. I love the fabric of this dress. I love the cut and I love the ruffles. I tend to be more, I think I'm the flirtiest dresser in the family, but I don't think I'm the flirtiest person. I think that's Alana. I think Alana's the biggest flirt in the family.

2:10But I think I tend to dress the flirtiest. You think that's fair? I would agree. um and yeah i don't know i just wanted to i wanted to dress up for you bella thank you so much means a lot danielle how about you i am wearing a jenny fax skirt with a fun little black underwear detail it's actually printed on the skirt i just thought it would be funny um to i usually don't wear skirts i'm more of a you know pants or tailored kind of girl but i'm wearing this jenny fact skirt today and then this jacket is um a louis vuitton leather jacket it's one of my favorites and it's by nicola casquille who i am a very very very very huge fan of.

3:08Alana, your turn. I'm wearing a vintage helmet laying dress and a Callaghan jacket that was designed by Nicola Goskier. I think this is from the year 2000. And I scoured the internet because he only did three seasons at Callaghan. So I scoured the internet for a piece and I wore it because they were the two pieces in my suitcase that I really wanted to wear and I feel like they needed a time out. I'd forgotten he did Callaghan. Yeah, it's really nice, I must say. I love his previous work as well. I love what he did for Balenciaga. A huge fan. A bad suit fan, a big Nicola fan. You are Haim, a girl band of three sisters, one of the most popular rock groups out there right now.

4:05Who's the tastemaker and how obedient are the other two of you at following orders or how does it work between you? I'm a follower. I've been a follower. I'm the youngest. I've been a follower my whole life. I think we each have different, you know, maybe, if you would call it like a tastemaker-y situation. I think Esty's always been the tastemaker when it comes to finding and discovering music. And I think Alana and I have always just followed Esty's amazing music taste. I thought I steered you in the right direction, not the wrong direction. You always did. You always have. You still do. Esty's always discovering the best music.

4:52And in terms of clothes, because my sister told me recently that when we were kids, she would look at what I was wearing always and then sometimes think, hmm, maybe I won't do that. I was like slightly shocked because as the eldest, you have this imperious feeling of like certainty when it comes, well, I did anyway, yet a huge dependency. And I wondered how you figured out your aesthetic identities. oh wow i bella i feel you on a very deep level as the eldest because i didn't have anyone to look up to other than like all i really had was just i looked at my my girlfriends for i guess for fashion advice and then also just magazines and but there were some disasters i really there were some bad fashion choices I think growing up and I wouldn't be surprised if Danielle and Alana looked at me sometimes and were like no no I just I spent my whole childhood stealing what was in your guys's closets that was my I was a borrower no you got all the hand-me-downs I got all the hand-me-downs but I'd also just you guys would notoriously get new things and I would just steal then because you seem kind of quite harmonious in like how you you dress it seems to have a link to it whereas me and my sister for some reason sometimes people think we're each other but we are so different in our aesthetics I'm more of a kind of child soldier and she's more of a little princess.

6:39That was our demeanors. And so we rarely kind of swap clothes, but I expected a certain allegiance, even if it wasn't like replicated in what she wore. I just think Danielle, I think, I looked up to both of my siblings, but I think Danielle, I think we can all agree that Danielle had the best closet. Well, Esty and I would drive around L.A. When Esty got her license when she was 16 and a half, it kind of opened up Los Angeles to us because, you know, our parents, we just kind of stayed in our neighborhood mostly. They didn't really like driving us to different parts of L.A. They just wanted us to kind of just like hang in the backyard and kind of be in our neighborhood.

7:27But once Esty got her license, the whole city kind of opened up to us and we would kind of run around to different thrift shops. The dollar sale was a big one. The dollar sale. We just would go shopping and try to scrounge around and find things that we thought, you know, a lot of vintage shopping. We're really lucky in L.A. we get really good vintage. Especially back then. Before people knew what they had. Yeah. Yeah, we used to have jumble sales before vintage was a bad sale. That's what the dollar sale is. Yeah, a dollar sale was in a parking lot on La Brea in Hollywood. And they would literally take out bundles of clothing, and every piece was a dollar.

8:14Wow. And so our mom would give us each$10. So then we got, by the end of it, we'd have 30 pieces of clothing, and then we would just go home and hack away at cut it up. Try to make it look like what we saw in Vogue. There were some really bad concoctions we made. It's important to do those bad things on the journey to finding what's your look. I think they really form you. And there's a lot said about the middle child having a harder time in the family. And yet you, Danielle, you're, I believe, the main writer of songs. No, we all write, but I do take a production rule. Right. Yeah, we all write our songs, but I take a bit of the production rule.

9:15You take a lot of the production rule. She's being modest. Because you seem quite shy as well. And I wondered if you used your outfits to signal the kind of nuance of your personality that you hold, maybe hold back slightly. That's just. No, I've always just had an affinity for fashion. And since I can remember, I think when we got our first desktop computer and Internet connection, I think I was, you know, maybe 13 or 14. And I started, I figured out what, you know, Vogue.com was. I think at the time I was a big, you know, nylon magazine fan. And I was just searching for, you know, different things on the Internet, different, you know, trying to find cool inspiration for, you know, clothing and how to express myself with clothing.

10:07I think it's always just been very, like, important to me. And I think also fashion music to me, they kind of go hand in hand. and I think a lot of our favourite bands growing up, we also took such style cues from. Was there anyone in particular? Well, there was a moment, I think, you know, well, we were huge kind of MTV fans when we were, you know, in our, you know, I think, Lani, you must have been like eight. I was baby. Like seven or eight and I was ten. Nesty was like 13 and it was right around the time that Britney Spears and NSYNC and Backstreet Boys, all of these amazing pop bands were coming out.

10:57And we loved all of the kind of uniform with the boy bands. And the Spice Girls for us, even though we were in the States, were huge. And their self-expression with their clothing, I think, was always so inspiring to us. But it was really amazing to see these groups kind of express themselves with fashion and we were obsessed with them and then also with like destiny's child i feel like i always loved how they would always dress similarly but they all had their own take on it yeah and then there was so that was kind of in our early early teens and then there was a moment i think around 2001 where we saw the strokes on on mtv and we were like who are they why what are these cool jackets and these cool tight jeans.

11:45And I think, you know, that kind of changed our life. But yeah, and I think from then on, we kind of started digging through the internet for music inspiration and maybe more of, you know. I remember when you taught me to hand sew straight leg jeans into skinny jeans. There was a moment when we would see, I think it was in 2001 or 2002 where we discovered paparazzi photos of Kate Moss. And we were just, we just thought she was the coolest looking girl. And we saw her wear, I think they were sass and bide maybe, skinny jeans for the first time. Like this low rise, gray skinny jeans and she wore them with ballet flats.

12:40and I'm being like, how do I find that? All my jeans were, all of our jeans were like flared or boot cut. So we took a needle and thread, we turned the jeans inside out and just from the knee down, hemmed them to make them skinny. It never really worked. It never really worked and they were really hard to get on. But yeah, we kind of were making our own skinny jeans. yeah she was so good at skin she's so good at a new outfit like just you know obviously being a londoner too and she would show up somewhere and you think how did she how did she figure out a white pair of white trousers and a red shirt would be the coolest thing you've ever seen in your life and she just looked like she'd been dropped you know dropped from outer space just dazzling.

13:37She just always does it. The coolest, I mean, I think for a long time my kind of uniform was like skinny jeans that we sewed and then ballet flats and then I think you guys call it a vest. Yeah, you loved a vest. Well, I loved it, a button-up vest but then under would be like also like a tank top and then a button like from a three-piece suit we thrifted like a little vest with buttons and that was like we had so many vests we had so many yeah god from the dollar sale from the dollar they're the best ones because the new one is always like doesn't fit no no you need it tailored already worn down and not know where it's come from somehow and it just kind of makes makes you makes your body and it you talked about at school I mean, at school, the currency is clothes, but then there's also snacks.

14:36And you said you didn't have good snacks. We did not have good snacks. I was so interested because I was so embarrassed about my lunch. I used to go under the table and eat it really quickly and pop back up and then sponge off everybody else and look at them like a hungry dog until I got there kind of stuff. And what were your snacks then? Our snacks? We didn't really have snacks. Veggies. Veggies are like an apple. An apple, which is very sensible, honestly. My mom would, she would make us every day a sandwich. A sandwich. So it was mostly a turkey sandwich with mayonnaise and mustard. Amazing.

15:16Nothing else. But was it like huge hunks of brown bread or nice soft white bread? It was just like whatever was at the supermarket, like the sandwich bread. But I think what growing up, like when you went to a friend's house and they had like a snack drawer or a snack closet, it felt like a movie. Yeah. Like you have just dunkaroos. Yeah, gushers. And gushers. Fruit by the foot. Yeah, just readily available. We stayed friends with those friends. Yeah. Those were good friends. When kids had like M &Ms. Like who were those? Candy. Or like the friends that had parents that would bring our friends fast food.

16:02Oh, yeah. For lunch. For lunch. Like that was jealousy. Also Lunchables. We never had Lunchables. Do you guys have Lunchables? Yeah, I've heard. I've seen them in the supermarket. You were cool. You had the pizza Lunchables. Yeah. I still do that when I go to someone's house. I open their cupboards and I just stand there and look and see what they've got what are the choices they I never have anything until my son comes home and I rush to the supermarket but I have a very bad fridge it's got like some mayonnaise and that's it we can relate we were like a an ingredient family I don't know if you've seen yeah online where it's more of like, there's like a lot of food in the fridge but you have to make the meal.

16:56It's not just like a grab cell. Yeah, so my mom loved going food shopping. We always had food but it was always like you had to actually cut up the vegetables. Yeah, you had to prepare it. Well, I'm just a terrible cook so it was, I'm a true baby of the family. I just sat and waited till somebody helped. But yeah, our fridge was, we were never, that's why no one ever wanted playdates. Yeah. No, it really directs your friendships at a certain age, doesn't it? Thinking about what you can indulge in at that age. Oh, yes. And Stevie Nicks is quoted as being a fan of yours, too. And are you planning something together?

17:39Maybe. I don't know, Bella. Maybe. We don't know yet. Even you saying that out loud is like, it's like crazy. thing to hear. She's always been such a huge inspiration to us. She's a big inspiration to young artists. There are so many people who cite her and her music and her look and fashion wise she's a big influence and she just never stops and it's great that she's kind of found this kind of connection with you all and has such lovely things to say about how you work as a band and how you complement each other, what the things I read that she'd said. But I know you clearly can't say anything about it, but anyway, it's something to be excited about going forward.

18:35Yeah, we absolutely love her so much and have always been. Just in awe of her. We've seen her so many times in concert, and every time I'm in awe. It's just incredible. And I'm always interested in the transition from girlhood to womanhood and it's also a time of sort of inexplicable secretiveness within family relationships and I wondered who was the worst in this area. Of going from girlhood to womanhood? Yeah, and also, you know the sort of sudden withdrawal from what people expect from you where you just think, I'm not telling you anything. What would you think? I would say, Essie, you were the oldest.

19:25You had no one to guide you through. I think I'm still figuring it out. I'm being honest. Yes, I totally relate. Yeah, I think, well, I think my teens were pretty tough. And then college was also pretty tough. and then getting out of college was also pretty tough. What kind of pressure did you feel? What were you stepping back from? I didn't really have a lot of confidence as a kid, even though I loved performing, but I think when I was offstage, all three of us, we grew up doing shows for our parents in our living room, and like with the kids in our neighborhood we would put on shows god then I think once I got off stage I think I really have a lot of confidence in myself I never really felt you know I don't know good about myself I had really really like like there were really nice kids that went to my school and I had friends but like I never really felt like I fit in and I think that kind of continued from like elementary school and middle school into high school and I think the when I really found my stride I think I was well into my 20s and I think I'm maybe just sort of hitting my stride now yeah honestly I I think I yeah I I think, you know, gaining confidence is kind of, you have to work at it every day, I think.

21:05Yeah. And I think I'm just sort of starting to really feel like myself or like my truest self now, I think. I suppose maybe it's a bit of a myth feeling confident when you're young and, I mean, you are, you've done so much, all of you, but it's, It's a mysterious thing, but what's great is feeling that that's coming when it's been such a kind of tenuous thing. I mean, obviously, looking at you all, you just seem so shining. Thank you. You know, you give so much to your music, and people feel so good listening to your music, and the thoughtfulness of your lyrics and the kind of mood in your music.

21:58And I just wanted attention from boys. And I didn't get any. Didn't we all? I think that also. It was inconceivable. That was tough for me. You could, like, drive a truck through my two front teeth. I mean, now I look back on it and I think it was, like, chic and, like, cute. But at the time, it did not feel that way. Now I kind of miss it. I have my gap still. Yeah, Alana still has her gap. We all had a gap between our teeth growing up. That's the coolest thing. I mean, people practically make those gaps. I know. And I read that you're all obsessed with Phoebe Philo. Yes. Oh, my goodness. We're all obsessed with Phoebe Philo.

22:40What is it about her that you're captivated by? It all started when I saw a picture of MIA wearing the banana print, a banana print dress. And I just, I was obsessed with that pattern. And I remember, again, I was still understanding the internet, because I think this was like in 2003. And I think I somehow stumbled upon, oh, this is Chloe, the brand Chloe or something. And from then on, like every couple months, I would remember to check the internet for, I didn't even know what like a fashion week was, but I just kind of understood, oh, there's like some sort of show where there's like really cool clothes coming down to this sort of runway.

23:25and I started really trying to understand what the fashion world was. And I think, yeah, it was Chloe, like 2003, 2004, that I really started loving. And now I've gone a little bit back and I love the Stella and Phoebe collab and earlier Chloe and then, you know, Phoebe, Chloe, and then also have to shout out again, Nicola. Nicola's Balenciaga was huge. huge huge huge for us but of course it was just you know it's not like we could ever even dream of owning anything from these brands but we would just go on the internet and just look at these beautiful clothes and I'm just a huge fan of Phoebe and then later on when she did Celine it was like mind blowing and now her own brand is beautiful so yeah we're just huge fans I love what there's so much seriousness and then there's so much these fantastic jokes and the glamour, the way she just brings in a colour and it seems like she's invented this colour.

24:38Totally. She just brings this kind of swagger and this charm to dressing, but super chic. But you could be, you know, on the street or going to some fancy event. And it seems like the quality in her personality that comes through in her work, which I really love. Yeah, we're huge fans. I think it was, yeah, especially around the 2005 era. I will never forget. My first ever, ever, ever big purchase, there was a sale at this place called Fred Siegel. I think I was 18. And we heard that on the last day they do 95 % off. Bottom of the barrel. So we woke up early. We figured out somehow when it was the 95 % off day and I got all my money from my birthday and I found a Chloe top.

25:43You both did? We both each got one. They were 95 % off, so they were$50 each. Yeah, so yours was the green one with the black buttons. And I had a pink one with buttons, like a ruffled tank top. But they were each$50. And for us at the time, I can't believe we're spending this much money on a top. But, you know, it felt like a piece of history. and honestly, it was. It was one of her last collections. Mom found it. Yeah, my mom just was cleaning out the house. She just found it. But that was such a big deal for us to own. You never wore it. You actually, like... No, I wouldn't because I just didn't want to get it dirty.

26:22No, but it was like a museum piece. Yeah. Like, you knew that it was art. Yeah, but also R.I.P. Fred Siegel. Yeah. It was such an amazing story. Great story. We only went for the sales. We only went for the sales. But they were really amazing. 95 % off is insane. It's good to buy things that you never wear, though. I know it sounds a bit like elitist, but I have got things that I never wear, but I don't regret. Not many, but they're so beautiful. And I think maybe one day, or, you know, I look in the cupboard and think, oh, I love that thing. And sort of waiting, you know, I don't know when. I think Danielle's going to frame the Chloe top.

27:06She's going to frame her frame and put it on her wall. Do you all have different attachment styles? I think, Alana, you said being a little sister, you feel like your job is to be the wrangler of the family. And I wonder, what's your main wrangle? I think I have always grown up just being happy to be here. Oh, that's so nice. I just always, my siblings were so extremely powerful growing up. And then I came along and I just wanted to fit in. And I think for me and my siblings, I think when I turned 16 was when I turned from annoying little sister to friend. And once I kind of bridged that gap of being annoying to friend, I just was so afraid I was going to lose it.

28:05So I was just always was so incredibly excited to be involved, like that my sisters would go to a party and they'd be, they'd say, you want to come? And I couldn't believe it. So I always knew I was like, I got it. I got to play it cool. I just got to fit in. I had braces. I knew I was always the youngest person at the party. So even that was cool. and I was just happy to be there. So I think now growing up, again, I'm just grateful you guys accepted me.

28:39I'm still scared they're going to be like, you can't come, and I'm in my 30s. Was that anxiously attached or fearful? I definitely have an anxious attachment style, for sure. I don't know what the anxious avoidant and anxious... what's the other one yeah anxious avoidant and anxious i think insecure attached yeah so i have an in i have an insecure attachment style i'm but i'm working on it i think i like avoiding every so you're anxious avoid i think i'm avoidant i like to run through life just hoping that everything's gonna be okay i worry about the problems later i think things change change with different people you can be different things in different relationships because I kind of find it quite fascinating when I discovered the whole thing now attachment theory is such a kind of interesting part of understanding inexplicable kind of behaviors within oneself and I've like you yesterday I've always been quite anxiously attached but now I'm morphing into more anxious avoidant, which I much prefer.

30:00Yeah. What's the secret, Bella? What's the secret? What is the plan? I think I agree with you. I think that it's something you kind of have to work at. I'm currently working through it. Having somehow the courage to go against the anxiety, which is so terrifying. And then it depends on the person that is most sort of affecting in that. Yes. There's someone in particular and either kind of face them out or dump them. Yeah. Well, the dream is to just find someone with a secure attachment style and to be around people that are secure and then hopefully become one of those people as well, which again, currently working.

30:51But I was reading this, I don't know if you've ever followed Esther Perel. Esther Perel? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I read her book, Mating in Captivity. Oh, yeah, I read it. And she talked about the kind of myth of security and how somehow searching for security was almost... The death of a relationship? Well, that too, but also kind of insecure making because there's this security, but then there's this other stuff that is missing, which is the kind of charge of insecurity. So how the hell do you reconcile that? Maybe I'm chasing after some fantasy after, you know, watching my parents' weird relationship.

31:34I loved that. I mean, I loved that book, but it was also the catalyst for one of my breakups. Right. We read it together and I think we were both like, oh, okay, I think this is done. God, that's fascinating. This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, every film on MUBI is hand-selected, so you can discover incredible movies and series, streaming anytime, anywhere. Now streaming on MUBI is Twin Peaks. The cult TV masterpiece is now on MUBI in celebration of its 35th anniversary.

32:20I've been re-watching the series and it's as mesmerising and adrenaline-inducing as ever. the beauty of the filming the David Lynch lighting so moody and evocative the music by Angelo Badalamenti is haunting and then there's the cherry pie the whole thing is a feast you can watch for yourself try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash fashion neurosis that's MUBI.com slash fashion neurosis for a whole month of great cinema and TV, totally free. And Este, as the eldest, like me, you had some time without sisters. Yes. Do you always feel the most powerful just out of habit? Or is there one of you that you kind of, there's a consensus, who is the leader?

33:19No, I think that all three of us kind of take the lead depending on the situation. And I think that's why this works. I think that we've figured out our footing and we know, you know, when we see one sister struggling, we know that, you know, one or both of us have to kind of step in and help. I don't know. I think that, you know, we've spent our entire lives together. I know that there were three years when I didn't have siblings. I don't really remember. I mean, it must have been fun. I know. I mean, I see pictures of just me with mom and dad, and I'm like, what an amazing trio. I wasn't that bad.

34:05I cut off all of Danielle's hair when she was like three or four. I woke up in the middle of the night, and with safety scissors, just cut off all her hair. There's a lot of photos of Danielle with like crooked bangs. And my mom tried to fix it as much as she possibly could, but she didn't do the best job. but I mean, that was when we were like young, young, young kids, but you know, I can't even imagine what happened when I came along. You guys both had to deal. We liked the pet. I think so. I don't know. I don't really remember. No, I don't really remember that either, but I think that we've, I think we've just, you know, we've grown up together.