Fashion Neurosis with Helena Bonham Carter

36:07It's like all, it's quite a selfish impulse. and also I do think part of my you know in my head my negatives are always I've become such a cliche I do think like oh god you look and I always think I'm transforming myself and get like no you're basically the same sort of silhouette or the same um and I've got too much on usually um my ex used to say Tim used to say most people take was it Coco Chanel so like take something off before you leave oh really yeah which is quite a clever thing yeah but he says don't take one thing off with you you've got to take seven things off and it's true it's just way too much and I think I love decoration and it's fun and I also know it's gonna be it's like playing in toys with old women particularly I always get that where they you know it's fun yeah so like today I suddenly thought why am I thinking I thought well Bella might like it is this like pearl frame you know a pearl it's from frame um but you know to hold my glasses the pearls because I always think the pearls it's quite a nice thing to have um well one it's around your neck so you don't lose your glasses but also when you you got them on you've got this like pearl frame that actually is very flattering.

37:35I mean, I can't... Well, Coco Chanel said, pearls throw a light on a woman's face and a woman should always have a string of pearls. I actually have got one because of reading that from way back. Well, I'll show you when I get vertical later. What about that? I wanted to ask you about your label, Pantaloonies, which is something I really love. And I wondered how you came about doing that because I was going to ask you if you think somehow hang-ups and insecurities about our bodies make us come up with a good look. Oh, I think it's like the mother of invention, isn't it? It's not necessity, it's hang-ups or the insecurities of the mother of invention.

38:30Totally. I mean, with the pantalonies, there were two strands to it. One was, were bloomers, basically. And I always thought, although now, hello, they're in. But 20 years ago, I said, why can't I get any bloomers? I could only get vintage bloomers. And they were all about, you know, disguising chunky thighs and bums. And like Frida Kahlo, I think she invented her whole costume, her whole look because of, you know, her disability. And Lulu Guinness, she said she was never a jeans-leggy person, so she went 50s. So I think a lot of people's eccentricity or art in how they dress and present themselves to the world is usually to cover up something.

39:22It's a camouflage, you know. um my mom has sort of always gone sort of as she she got older she obviously loves loved food so she sort of became but her shape was like more of a tent you know and now guess what I'm becoming I've got these tent clothes now and go like oh this is what happens and how do you feel about nudity are there things you like to wear to feel naked or can you naked or sexy well they're I suppose it depends how do you, when you're naked, do you feel, I find I have to wear something to feel naked. Otherwise, I've just got nothing on. Well, isn't that the point of being naked?

40:12Are you telling me that in the shower you wear some shoes? No. You wear a jacket. I hadn't thought of that. but it would be very sexy as soon as you put something on and you're naked yeah it becomes more sexy but I wondered how you are about being naked I mean different bits of my life I um I'm not feeling I don't feel great when I'm naked not lately uh and I did a scene in a thing for Steve mcqueen it was amazing director yeah he's wonderful and i did a whole scene it was it was a pilot it never got shown but it was about a 15 minute scene naked with an apron and some i had some really good and a miller meister clocks um and i was entirely naked but i wasn't naked because i was covered in makeup which I will say is a makes you it it's a bit of an armor but I was definitely naked yeah and I had a perfume I do think perfumes can add you do wear that is part of the outfit yeah definitely a mood changer and gives you an armor or creates an atmosphere When I was younger, I didn't mind so much being naked.

41:45But it's not a great look now.

41:50On the opposite, I'm really, I would never be naked. Now I might, you know. Well done, woman. I know. I'm going the wrong way around, but at least it's happening. I'm quite pleased about it. I know that wrong way around thing. And I've gone the wrong way around about lots of things, but not about being naked. And I loved you as Princess Margaret in The Crown. You reminded us all of how attractive she had been. And I met her once when I was 17. I went to Mustique. I was sort of supposed to be doing a job there. What's the job? You're doing a Mustique? I was taking people on horse riding. I went I was sort of sent anyway it was horse riding yeah so I was supposed to be looking after the horses and um and she was there she because it belonged to Colin Tennant and who was a friend of my dad's and and then so I remember going to a cocktail party at her house and she was very remote and roddy llewellyn was extremely friendly and you said you met her through a psychic and uh you were consulting about something else and she pushed her way in and i wondered what she'd said yeah i mean i did actually meet her not via the psychic i mean in real in real life but there was a funny um and she was very remote in fact she was remote and quite I met her a couple of times because she um she told me actually it was at Windsor you know when the place burnt down and then they had a thing where they invited people to see the new hall I guess yeah and she I remember meeting her there and she was saying she said oh you are getting better aren't you and I was kind of like oh god and then I think that's quite funny because I just thought well I'm glad I'm getting better because I ended up playing her so um but then the psychic bit was yeah I was seeing someone I'm interested in all that and um this particular medium person who's I was asking about something else which I don't necessarily take wholeheart but I like just trying anything it's an adventure and I definitely feel that some people have gifted with another sense um but it was so remarkable what this she said i feel there's this woman does it make any sense she had no idea what was about to do what my job was and she's in full regalia it's she's a royal i was like geez and she the thing the bit of advice not that i remember everything but the one thing that i remember thinking that she said don't underestimate the power the cigarette and holder as a form of expression gosh which actually I thought that's a really good note and I knew that in my sort of exploring about Margaret she it was very you know she wasn't very tall she was tiny and I think Nikki Haslam said that was what she minded she didn't mind about being you know her younger sister and the heir but she did mind about being so tiny and that her great granny had or her granny had said something about her really early on when she was a child about being so short um so she did everything to elongate her and so and if you're royal you know you you're really your job is to be seen so she was very good at posing and and that the you know the cigarette holder and that wouldn't be an extra line she was also knew about dancers you know so creating lines in that's so interesting that definitely helped so I thought that is actually a great um note god that's brilliant isn't it how I love the idea of her zooming into your you know your well she elbowed her way through because I wasn't actually consulting about I do think strangely in a way you kind of want to put If you're playing someone who actually existed and is no longer with us, you kind of want them on side.

46:27And you know you want to feel that you've got a responsibility and also that they wouldn't mind. It's like writing someone's biography. You're like, it's a tricky one morally. It's a good idea there because you've also checked out potential partners' handwriting with a graphologist. And I wondered what shone out about your boyfriend's handwriting and what your own handwriting reveals to you, if there's anything that immediately occurred to you that you hadn't thought of from doing that. Well, the graphologist who I consult is my aunt, who is 95 and lives in New York and is an amazing woman and unbelievably astute as a graphologist.

47:21And over the years, she's pointed things out to me. I mean, of course, no one in our family writes to her anymore. Unfortunately, because it's like we don't want to have an X-ray, you know, an MRI, as it were, psychological MRI, as someone said earlier. and no one writes anyway sadly I mean I do love handwriting it's something that I actively enjoy doing myself and I remember Renata saying years ago oh you're getting much more confident and I had no idea gosh and I had lots of different kinds of handwriting and it doesn't matter she still can detect what's going on in you yeah and there's some amazing things she can tell to do is it's quite complex um i gave my boyfriend but i she didn't she looked at it for a second and said actually i don't want to look she likes loves him anyway so she just said let's not even go that so maybe there's a question mark with that handwriting anyway god that's fascinating it is fascinating so it's like a real So whenever I play someone who's real, who's existed, I will tend to, there's two witches.

48:36There's Renata, who's my graphologist aunt. So I'll give her the handwriting. So she gave that. She looked at Margaret's handwriting, but throughout her life. And the Queen Moms. And Elizabeth Taylor. Gosh. And I've got a whole archive of real people. and then also I go to this amazing astrologer called Darby Costello who's like you do an hour and a half with her and um because with each I'm pretty anal with research you know rather than right reading the biography which I'll read anyway yeah you'll have three inches of biography William Shawcross on the queen on the queen mother and you go to Darby within an hour you've got like like 50-minute, you know, it's just concentrated essence of person there on a plate.

49:31And that's fascinating. Yeah, that's such a brilliant idea. And sometimes you can gather all these, and then you see, then you cross-reference, and then you go like, okay, the common thing that everyone goes, because I find it's helpful to boil down the essence before in trying to, you know, explore someone, like getting to a source. Yeah. and if you gather all these different things and then and then you've got the real ingrate you go like that's the pith or that's the thing is that where you start from when you get that sense and then you build outwards from there i have a sort of collection i've got a sort of um extremely extremely probably over anal obsessive compulsive way of going in search of somebody which is what I get off on I guess it's possibility as my ex said you're not writing a flipping biography it's like I said well in a way I am I'm wearing it on the inside and um well that's why you're so good well I don't know you are you're really good it's that you always just every time you're in a part this it's exciting because it feels like there's something to find out and I know that's the same in every film but you really do bring that your characters and it's one why you're so popular and everyone loves your work and you.

51:06This is my compliment. Yeah I'm very good at paying them. I love paying compliments even though. I like paying compliments too. Raise the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sails. Captain an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one. Get started today at linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

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52:18You spoke very eloquently after your divorce with Tim Burton about, you said, with divorce you go through massive grief and it's a death of a relationship so utterly bewildering and your identity everything changes and in your case you had a creative partnership as well as a romantic and I I wondered when you emerged from from that did you find you were different in your friendships that's an interesting question what do you mean by different in my friendships or Well, having gone through such a kind of huge thing, whether you treated your friendships differently or you kind of noticed that you wanted something different and gave something different or whether that affected them.

53:18That's an interesting question. I hadn't really thought of that. I mean, I think I was incredibly grateful for my friendships. I think maybe my appreciation of them got bigger because they survived and supported me through this huge sea change. Also, very much so for my children, because that's the... You rely on your... I think when you go through a divorce, well, I did anyway, you rely on your other people around you to help carry the family. I felt I had to almost hitchhike on other people's families too while I was, you know, feeling like mine was falling apart. And a divorce is truly, in a family that's close to ours, is transformative to everybody.

54:14Having said that, if you don't fit each other, it takes a lot of bravery but it's better to move yeah then stop each other from growing i really believe that too yeah i mean we're not meant to be forever and i i've never actually gotten married because i can't say those i can't make i can't honestly make that promise because i just don't think it's a healthy one so you were never actually married no interesting yeah no not interested quite apart from also you know i've got adhd so the idea of organizing i mean it would be both be a great thing but i'd be so flipping obsessive about every single choice and you know it'd be just like oh my god because people are quite obsessed with what you wear and as if your clothes are a kind of code they're trying to crack.

55:14Sorry, I'm having some caffeine. Yeah. And you're quite tantalizing with what you choose to reveal or hide. And I know you're a private person, but you enjoy some of the playing. Honestly, Bella, I'm not even aware of playing or what I'm revealing or not. I'm the, there's only one way of surviving being in this business of, is don't ever engage or look at what your online it's only online now but it used to be in the press whatever that identity is yeah it's like that is a different it's an entity out there and it will it's the sum total of what people want you to be but it might have very little to do with oneself um otherwise there lies madness if you go like oh i could just you know this is what you know whatever um as long as I have continued to just not give a fuck, frankly.

56:17That is the important bit of playing. And as we all know, if you're trying to create something, you've got to not give a fuck. Because you can get tied up with, oh, this isn't good enough, or that isn't good enough, or whatever. And it's like, oh, let it all go. And in that moment when there's a real failure, then things can happen it reminded me of a thing i remember once with mom who i have learned a shed load of but we were on holiday when we were kids and she was wearing this white silk you know blouse and we're eating spaghetti and we got a bit of bolognese on it and then she said it doesn't matter why don't we put more and we ended up flicking bolognese so it was spotted with bolognese and it was just like that's it and then I love this phrase that I read which is if you stumble make it part of the dance and that's it just like oh what does it matter in the end and I loved just flicking it was so fun me and my brothers were just flicking um bolognese all over mom's silk so it was sort of dotty which I mean she's always like rocks the spots and dots.

57:33That is genius. And if you fancy someone don't like something they're wearing, does it kill your attraction? No, I think if I fancy someone, it's going to be about an energetic set, you know, the sexiness doesn't begin with what they're wearing. It's more to do with what they're wearing on the inside, isn't it? It's like the energy. Does it with you? Well, as you're saying that, I'm thinking, what if their energy's manifesting in this hideous garment? Then you don't fancy them. Whatever they're wearing, it's going to be, you can't change what they look like. I mean, you know, it might be more to do with, do I need to have a relationship with that person?

58:20Or do I need to, you know, that would be like a no. But, you know, I don't think it's going to stop you fancying. I suppose it's if... It can be off-putting. There's bad clothes and there's clothes that indicate something that you're pretending not to notice. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've got somebody who's completely narcissistic, incredibly sexy, but just like... But, no, I mean, it is, I don't think it would stop me. Yeah, it tells you a lot about the person, but it wouldn't stop me wanting to, you know, if you fancy them, you're going to fancy them. Yeah. You might be off-put that you might go like, no, I don't want to, like, it would be the same as them saying something really crass.

59:17Well, that would be just dreadful. The clairs of fun. Or good morning. Yeah. Yeah. Good morning. No, good warning. Good morning. No, it's goodbye. And your character, Bellatrix Lestrange in Harry Potter, it's like your innocent ingenue side revealing a dark side. Because even when you were playing the drug-addicted doctor in Miami Vice, you were just so pure. I was not exactly well cast, put it that way. It was so sweet and matter of fact. And who were you channeling to be the feared and adored role that's so popular? Bellatrix. I remember thinking like, oh, she's a real sociopath. How am I going to do this?

1:00:08I'm not a natural sociopath, luckily. I think I remember thinking of little boys when they get rid of insects and they get really like, it's that sort of, they're pre-social. You know, they're about age three or four and they really love exterminating insects. It's that sort of prime. I just thought she's not grown up. She's very arrested. That's so interesting. And I also thought, and I kind of know that with kids, they like watching other kids. And if you're playing a baddie, if they are childish, they enjoy that. Yeah. so and i've got a natural you know i like being being young for me is very easy inside um and my granny was like that and my mom we've all got a healthy inner child it's so healthy it's more outer than anything there's nothing in her about it so it's permission to play you know so yeah yeah but then over it now I'm having like an unlikely and I seem to remember I was trying to justify why Bellatrix would have gone to the dark side and I think but I don't think it's really worth taking seriously but I think I made a link to Unity Metford it's partially because my cousin was buried who wrote a biography of her this this week david price jones but he'd written a biography and i thought if you're one of many sisters there is something about how a need to distinguish yourself particularly if you're not the brightest if you're not the most beautiful how do you make yourself outstanding in a family of so many sisters.

1:02:08And that maybe it was that. It's like, I'm going to define myself by going off and becoming, you know, Hitler's mistress. Yeah. And that need to be adored by all of a leader. You know, it's a lack of confidence. Most people know American Express for their iconic personal cards. Some know them for business cards to help entrepreneurs grow. But American Express also offers something built for companies at scale. The American Express Corporate Program. With the corporate program, you can apply for employee cards tailored to their needs, issue virtual cards to your team and suppliers, and even automate accounts payable with American Express 1AP.

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1:03:51One of the things I loved so much, one of your very short film that you made, the Prada film for the therapy directed by Roman Polanski with Sir Ben Kingsley, who plays a Freudian analyst. And while you're chatting away about your daddy issue on the sofa, he spies your coat, your fur coat on the hanger and becomes ecstatically transfixed by it. it's just a masterpiece and i how did you come to play how did you get that role how did i get that role i mean it's always the best ones you just get offered i mean i just it was a bit of a no-brainer polanski said would you play this part so i was so excited because i had all the lines and i was with tim at the time we went to paris and stayed at the ritz it was a really fun weekend and he knew polanski in fact polanski was around when we were first getting together yeah and um and he just took one look i took ages because there's a hell of a lot of lines you know weeks to learn it and he looked at it just the night before and he said oh it's going to be on ben's face i said and true it was me blabbing on the background he said you're fine it's going to be on ben's face so ben and and the and the coat because it's a commercial for Prada.

1:05:10Yeah. But it was fun to do. I was Polanski. I mean, you had the whole of his team. I mean, you had the music writer, the set designer who I met once. I'm trying to remember his name. He was a complete genius. Everyone was a genius. And God, it was just... And it was a one-day job. how that's a no-brainer yeah it's like it's so good oh it's just I regularly watch it it's just one of the great pieces it's so good and um and you come from a long line of liberal politicians aristocratic liberal politicians and your great-grandfather was Asquith, the Prime Minister of Britain in the early 20th century.

1:06:04And in your new series, The Seven Dials, the Agatha Christie, you play Lady Catrum, who's quite a complex figure. And I wondered if there was someone in your family that you were thinking about and how did you develop power of kinks she was pretty well drawn chris chibnall wrote her um and it's she was very precisely drawn actually no there was more to it first of all what's interesting about this is that it's not it's adapted from agatha christie seven dials but my character didn't doesn't actually exist in the in the novel oh really no so what is clever about what chris did is well one it's great because people could read the book and go like oh no he did it because it's different the essence of it is in the in the adaptation um but he made in the original novel it was lord cater and made it made a woman and in fact it's much more interesting with bundle who's the lead i'm her mum and it's so it's a mother-daughter relationship and then added to which i got obsessed with agatha christie when i was um before i was doing this and watched lucy worsley's um series and biography and she's really fascinating and i think a great um woman in herself and i sort of felt that chris had not necessarily consciously but put a lot of Agatha Christie in the character yeah in Lady Catrum and a lot about grief um and the impact of grief and Lady Catrum lost her son in the Somme Yeah.

1:08:00So 10 years before the story takes place. And she's lost her husband in the Spanish flu. So in a way with her, she's completely governed by the people who are absent, like her son, her husband. And it's more about the fact that she's stuck in 1915. she's not moved on it's a sort of Havisham yeah stopped and she's not mourned or she's not gotten over their loss and I think it was only when I was doing it that I thought oh my god of course I had to bury my son there's a flashback and then I did think of the fact that my great uncle did die at the Somme after whom my father was named Raymond after whom my son is named and it was like a strange feeling as I went into the chapel to bear it to this young man was playing the corpse actually was on his phone can you believe it like everyone was on their phone even the corpse was on the phone it was like I was going oh god I'm getting a right right like why is everyone on the phone there's no chat anymore anyway he was texting in his coffin and i thought but at the same time i had this ah my ancestral baggage here is here because it's raymond raymond asquith of course he died in the soul and there was a lot of no recovery in the family from his death yeah you You know, so I don't know.

1:09:43You can analyze and you can also, but it's kind of, sometimes you find yourself doing things, you don't quite know why, and then halfway through you go, well, of course I'm doing it because of da, da, da, da, da, you know, and it all makes sense. And I do think we carry our ancestors. Yeah. And where we've come from. And they're only just here. and they seem to appear at strange times i mean i don't really think about it but then suddenly someone who never think about seems to be influencing something or other i mean it sounds a bit far-fetched but why not it's not far-fetched and it's our privilege also makes us less lonely yeah it's a really and less alone good reminder yeah and that while we're here the bodies are here they can come through and even if it's just in the fact that we've been handed this package of DNA there's certain things that we can do here while we're here yeah that's so important isn't it well thank you so much Helena Bonham Carter for being on Fashion Neurosis it's so fun really fun I can have a snooze

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