Fashion Neurosis with Kate Moss

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1:10Hi, come in.

1:16Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Kate Moss. Hi, Bella. Can you describe what you're wearing today and why you chose these clothes? I was inspired by you today, actually. this is an old Salamon dress but it reminds me of the kind of things the kind of like masculine feminine that you wear and I'm wearing a Vivian Westwood sex shoe because that's what I associate you with as well like that's how I when I met you just left Vivian and I know that she inspired you a lot so that's why I chose this today. I like the sheer tie as well that's yeah really very pretty and very very kind of belle de jour yeah with the sex shoe oh yeah she's always a good look is a reference belle de jour i wanted to ask you whether fashion was a thing in your household and did you have to ever fight to wear the things you wanted to wear i definitely never thought of my house as a fashion household ever i was never like i want that dress or you know no it wasn't but and I had to fight for a pair of um ankle strap shoes because my mum said they were common and um eventually I got them from Ravel I think I was about eight and I remember driving home with them on they were pale pink ankle straps and I was like oh my god I couldn't stop looking at them and I just wanted to sleep in them and I loved them so it much it's funny isn't it yeah I remember we didn't really have new things and I came to London and visited my dad and he took me to this shop it was called T T Elliot on the corner of Westbourne Grove and I bought these these wedges with a blue they had ankle straps too it's all about an ankle strap how old were you I was 14 then yeah and uh and I remember going home on the train pulling up my skirt and putting my feet on the yeah seat across and like thinking admiring finally I think it is something about an ankle strap being like sexy isn't it like it's still now when I wear an ankle strap it's like it feels like a bit it's there is something it's sort of demure but there's this thing holding your ankle yeah it definitely draws attraction to the ankle and probably the ankle is quite a sexual part of your body yeah like in even in Jane Austen and stuff they go on about the ankle or the wrist you know these bits that they get to see yeah and do you do you have any hang-ups about your body yeah of course because you're so good at I mean I've watched you working and you just treat yourself as an instrument and you act as though you have no self-consciousness and and you're dazzling like in those vampire films where they talk about the vampires glamorizing someone and you do that when you're working you glamorize everyone and we become spellbound by you well I think at very young age I started working and I started doing pictures um topless and I was very very conscious of um I have a mole on my right here and um I hated it so much I would cry I never wanted to show never wanted to be topless I would cry and and I had to get over it because the photographer was like if you don't do this I'm not going to book you for the next job so I had to get over it and so then I was just like nobody really gives a shit about my molar so and then I just kind of like I think as a model you can't be very self-conscious because your body's kind of not your own when you're a uh when you're a vessel for somebody else's imagination god that's so interesting something like that yeah god and was that current with that was that the current day pictures yeah and i was like 15 and i was topless in a magazine and i was still at school and luckily the face wasn't really sold in croydon so not i don't think anyone really saw it but um i was still i know i mean they did they heard and it was kind of like you know they took the piss out of my brother and all that your your sister's got her tits out and you know I think he probably suffered more than I did about it it must have taken a lot of courage I mean everyone else had those pictures on their tear sheets you know as inspiration because they were it was so fresh and beautiful you looked so amazing I think at the time it was very closed I mean it was only me and Corinne and Mel and Drew Drew Jarrett as their hairdresser and Dick Page as the makeup artist and so you know the boys I'd make the boy I would make Drew turn around because he was straight and I was like I'm not having him look at me and you know I kind of was I was really shy but it was so it was like family I'd worked with them so many times already that I knew them really well but I still like even after that shoot I did cry a lot about taking my clothes off with her.

7:10I really didn't want to do it. And do you remember the first time you found a piece of clothing that made you feel different? I think, like, Vivian Westwood, like the bustier, when I was, like, 15, I thought, I think. Like, we'd go down the Rue St George in Croydon and I had, like, a pair of Adidas high tops I'd got in New York when I'd gone and a puffer jacket a leather not puffer jacket a leather goose with a mink collar black and we'd gone to Harlem to buy it on Easter Sunday and it was packed it was so mental and um I went home and they were like oh my god it was like proper fashion in Croydon that was the look and um yeah I was allowed in the recent Georgia after that and there was 15 ha because I had a good look on it's amazing the power of a look where it just kind of makes people accept you I mean it sounds prejudice but it's not actually it just a good look and I mean if you wanted to get in a nightclub at 15 you had to have a look for sure I mean even if you're a boy at that time you know if you were head to toe in westward you know and a three-tongued trainer and a you know I don't know it was all like it was more fashion then yeah like late 80s like the wag and the brain and that you know the clubs that we used to go to and come up from Croydon on the train and and it was like are we gonna get in and um you know we'd push us to the front obviously the girls me and my friend and um And, you know, we'd be all like, you know, trying to be sexy and get in.

8:58And they were with us, so then they'd get in, the boys. Do you remember that night we went to see George Michael at the Albert Hall and then we all went back to your place afterwards with Stefano Pilati and Johnny Shankid and Gerry Stafford and then you made us all dress up. You dressed everyone up from your wardrobe. That is my favourite thing to do, really. like it's like it's almost like a challenge for me like when I go like I know what I've got to look for you and like the challenge of like I can I in my wardrobe I've got something for everyone and I love doing that it is my favorite like creating like a look on somebody that they never thought they would do or they wouldn't have thought about it's like it's um it's it brings me a lot of joy doing that because when did you start doing that I mean I think I was in my 20s when I started like getting a lot of clothes like collecting clothes from like you know I bought things from India or you know just on travels and stuff it's always been easier for me to buy something that I can fit in my suitcase because I lived out of a suitcase for so long um I wouldn't think twice about spending three thousand pounds on a dress but when it comes to like something I can't fit in my suitcase I like a piece of furniture or a picture I can't I don't know um I've got like a block so I had a lot of clothes because didn't you used to dress up your little brother yeah Sylvia he was called Sylvia and I think basically I was my mum wouldn't really didn't really like people coming over to play I don't know why but um so I would get bored and I'd dress him up and then I'd make him like ring the doorbell and pretend he was my friend and sylvia he found a picture of sylvia and framed it saying to kate love sylvia i mean it's the most hilarious he's got i don't know where i've had a brown wig he looks like elizabeth taylor kind of gone wrong he's got like massive tits he's only like seven or something it's so funny it's really and blue eyes shadow obviously and a beauty spot and red lipstick.

11:15He looks like a really major drag queen, like, but as an eight-year-old. And you dress him up? Yeah, I dress him up and make him ring the doorbell and say, is Kate coming out? Can Kate come out and play? So I had, like, I made up a friend. And how did your mum react to that? Can't remember. Probably, no, she can't. I don't know. You silly bugger, I'm cooking the tea. Leave me alone. I don't know. And where do you start with an outfit? I start with like, where am I going and who am I seeing? I kind of, I always, because I have to, because if you've got too many options, you have to kind of, I think, narrow it down to like, who am I, not who am I today, because it's always, but who am I with today and what kind of, I always like want to please someone a bit.

12:11It's almost like I want somebody, I want to wear something that when I turn up, they go, oh, I like that. I wouldn't wear like the same thing to see you as I would to see Katie Grant. Weirdly. Or somebody like that. I don't know. Or Camilla. I don't know. Like women or men or whoever, I think. And also like where am I going? Like and who's going to be there? And what do I want to? and I want them to like it I suppose this is like my dream look the things that really inspired me when I was first starting my own label this I like cover up but I like very short and legs I think so funny because I wouldn't have thought that about you I always I always you know think you're a suit girl yeah apart from when you wore that amazing pink Osley clark do you remember that yeah oh my no was it aussie clark no you had a dress on from like the 20s yes i i had one that suzy cave sent me oh my god and it was just like this rag and it was the prettiest thing so amazing i think you should wear dresses more like you know like that time i you had a note you had something at your shop and i found that aussie clark and it had the red green and gold stripes oh yeah and I was like that's so Bella yeah and you were like where's that dress from yeah I love it when there's so many times when you've appeared and you've done exactly that I've become enchanted by what you've done with what you're wearing and the kind of effect it's had you're a master at that um I don't know about master or anything oh yes no do you and Lila still do fashion police yeah I did it yesterday I was not just me and Lila just me on my own I was like I was in the car and there was this woman and this man and they were walking down the street and she had like a I don't know it was the weirdest look and I went I bet where are they from those people they're definitely not English and he had a big camera so I knew he was like a he was a um a tourist and they were walking down Camden High Street she had a port pie hat and a yellow chanel backpack tight leather shorts and a yellow nike high top trainer and it was extraordinary and i really was like nina nina nina pull him over and then i was like where are you from and they were france because we had a bet that they were canadian canadian i was like they're definitely not from paris for sure i'm terrible it is a bit they were nice though i said oh bonjour day you know and you know have a lovely day I wasn't rude but I do like it I do like going like wow what are they thinking I love the new not like I don't like doing that I don't want to be judgy but you know when you just go like nino nino like fashion police there is a there was a tv show wasn't there called fashion police was there there should maybe I'm making it up maybe I should have one yeah you should have one we should have one together all around the streets of all the different countries especially and then like the really good ones like wow where did they come up with that yeah but it's like it's the code isn't it that's what I love about what you're describing sometimes I get on the tube and I see some someone wearing just amazing look yeah and I wonder what they're they everyone's always doing something it's like how am I going to affect and uh and I suppose in our in fashion there's so much code I hate code what what bit of it don't you like because I I hate it as shortcut like what you're describing a shortcut but oh tell me what the code oh I hate fashion codes yeah like I hate like oh this bag's in fashion so everybody designs the same fucking bag and sells the same bag i hate that kind of thing like oh this is fashionable so everybody has to have that in their shop i really don't like that like i walked through the airport the other day and in every shop was the same shoe in the same bag from like every designer i was like what the fuck is the point in doing that i don't understand nobody's just nobody's like they might just put it on the runway different but then when it gets to the shop it's all the same it's like why it's not it's not fun when it's fashionable or like you know like the trends that's what they call them in their trends yeah trends are terrible trends are awful because as soon as it's a trend you can't wear it anymore yeah it's out you're you're dated the minute you're trendy yeah it's done is there anyone who's inspired you fashion wise so many people David Bowie Jolly Thunders Keith you know men I think inspired me just as much as women like you know Bridget Bardot um Grace Kelly Anita Pallenberg yeah Anita was yeah Anita inspired me well she inspired me because of her love for fashion as well like I I would hang out with her and we would spend all night in my wardrobe, like doing looks and playing and shopping.

17:46And we'd go to like, you know, vintage places. And she would be like, that dress is a 30s Schiaparelli or something. You know, she knew so much about it as well. And she kind of, she was really, she had like an amazing taste. She put things together in such an original way. way but even saying the word original way sounds awful she was just she just had no there was nothing that there was no barrier she would just do things and then you'd wonder why on earth yeah you've never seen that before because it was just so i know that's the last thing she like when i when i went to stay in jamaica and she just left and she left me a present on the bed saying you You know, I'm sorry I'm not there.

18:37I hope you have an amazing time. They were lime green lightning bolts, like down for this long earrings, with like crystals all over them. I was like, wow, she would actually wear them. She would. I mean, that takes like, she's like fearless when it came to fashion. Yeah, she was fearless. And God, she was so strict as well. So when she chose something, when she'd say, oh, I need to buy a jumper from you. And I think, oh, thank God, you know, it's OK, you know. Yeah, if Anita likes it, I'm doing all right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Oh, God. But I often think of her, if I feel like I need a compass, I think Anita.

19:27What would Anita do? What would Anita do? Yes, yeah, I know. She was just the best. Yeah. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. and is there a random garment that a man wears that attracts you a random garment well I suppose I only say that because I think if I see a man in a khaki shirt I just down I just think oh that's attractive yeah I was gonna say a shirt really yeah see I like um weirdly kind of like old men's shirts one of my boyfriends had this shirt that um was like passed down from his grandfather and it was a dress shirt but it was like so old and like you know when it's just a lived and he would wear it and I was like oh so you know because I don't know like old things like um my friend's grandfather died and she gave me his old like um Turnbull and Nassar pajamas that he you know like they'd been worn and worn and worn and worn and they were so beautiful I was like oh you know like that kind of old worn yeah I'm not really I don't for for me like men in like trendy fashionable clothes don't do it for me at all so if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing does it kill your attraction well it's funny you should say that actually because there was a boy that I really fancied and I was like, oh my God, but he wears cowboy boots.

21:28The fuck am I going to do with that? I can't go out with somebody who wears cowboy boots. And then a long time ago, when I was like 17. And you know him, obviously. He was American as well, disaster, in a cowboy boot. And I was like, do you know what? I'm going to let it go. I can get rid of them. I'll just lose them. so I did and um I went out with him for ages and you know he was one of the like the loves of my life so thank god it was you know it didn't put me off so there's always room for negotiation I think yeah that's a good way of but then I did see somebody the other day and they had a really bad shoe on and I thought no I can't I mean he's really cute it wasn't for me it was a friend of mines uh he was a friend of mine and but she asked me what she think and I was like he's really cute but that shoe it's kind of like a no-go so they have to be bigger than the offending piece of clothing or gun accessory yeah it's awful in that seems so shallow it it sort of sounds it in a way but I think there's something in it because I think there are other messages so it's like a love test if someone like the cowboy boot you got over it but there and there was a love and sometimes you override it which is different yeah and it's a disaster like I think you know those kind of holiday romances like when you see somebody on a beach oh my god they're so cute and then you see them in normal clothes.

23:10That can be a passion killer. You get them back to London and you're like, oh, God, me, no way. It's like a kind of different person, really, for me. It's like if you're wearing, you know, it's like almost like city clothes and then beach clothes and somebody on holiday is so different than somebody in, yeah, in town. I suppose it changes all the proportion, doesn't it? Because they can look like on a beach completely sort of just a person. And then when they, if the clothes are wrong, you see the wrongness. You're the same as me, aren't you? Because I don't mind. I mean, I quite like unfit looking men.

23:58Yeah, me too. I don't like buff. I don't want anyone that looks like they've been to the gym. No. even if they do go to the gym they can't look like they do really like natural yes natural muscles I know it's a funny I just sort of registered that recently and thought yeah I actually find it quite sexy when someone's a bit out of shape yeah yeah I'm not into like I think it was probably from like growing up around male models as well I just really like those kind of pretty boys with perfect bodies just don't saying that you never know do you but you know usually it's not the kind of guy I go for you obviously my track record is not the kind of man I'm attracted to do you remember the old Vivian days of Vivian Westwood shows like when you first walked in her show and um what it was like I'm I always remember seeing you in one of I think it might have been the first one you did because I'd left by then and I came to a show in Paris and you came out in a corset, but it just finished under the boobs.

25:09And I thought, oh God, that corset's on back to front. That's so funny. I don't think it was. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. No. I looked on YouTube. By that point, that's what I'm saying. I had to go over the whole like tit thing. And then everyone just wiped my tits out, even though I didn't even like, I had such a phobia about them. I was like I mean still well not actually still but you know like for a long time uh I would do shoots and I had no top on a long time and um yeah and at Vivian's show and I think because they were they were I was kind of so flat-chested that it wasn't like vulgar they could kind of use me as like like it wasn't if I'd have had like amazing big tits like Helena christian sort of something and they put her in a closet with their tits out it kind of would have changed the vibe because i was so flat-chested and i had a big mole it wasn't it was different yeah you were just like an ingenue i mean i you just were so enchanting it was you were so charming there was so much charm in your whole demeanor and how you wore that and it was like you didn't really notice the nakedness and vivian wasn't she wasn't really into sexualizing people she just wanted the clothes to to be a certain way and to be radical yeah and you it's funny you should say that though because all those clothes i think of are so sexy like the bustiers and the sex shoes and that they're even the punk stuff that was like you know radical was so sexy it was and the crutch minis and the whole thing is like but the way she saw it it was never sexual in that way was it yeah it was kind of like fuck you way I know it was it was amazing so I remember her developing the corset and we went to the no way were you there yeah I was there then and um because she'd come back from Italy and and I started working for her then I think I was about 23 or something or 22 and we went to to the costume department of the the national theater no the opera house and she said I want to find this corset like the old oh my god and then she found it and it I was expecting something like you know that had room for breasts and but there was this thing it was like flat yeah totally flat it was like a kind of washing board or something and I thought oh no that's awful and I just so didn't get it but she her thing you know she just saw beyond crazy and then she made the corset I remember the first one took something like 28 hours to make and then gradually obviously it speeded up like mad and what was amazing was that all the girls just became obsessed with them yeah i mean in croydon i used to go to cinderella rockefellas and there was like like if you didn't have a fucking 50 and west for corset you were not getting in you weren't anyone you were like i like it's like you just weren't it's like a thing you have to have one and i'd saved up i mean i saved up and every you know it was just the yeah it's like so it was such a thing of my of that that era for me and for lots of people i think vivian westwood was such a statement of like i don't give a fuck i'm gonna wear this and you know my parents couldn't you know it's like it was a rebellious thing i think she had like it was she set out to do something like that and obviously not with punk and everything but even you know as well when she did all that um with the bus chases it really was like rebellion it was it was amazing also using her love of kind of 18th century and stuff and having this decollete right up under the chin and then this flat rib cage and then this it was just wild wasn't it yeah so i know and then with the rocking horse shoes all like laced up and with the angels painted on the bustiers and the whole like and the pearls and that i mean i mean she's major she was amazing she was so great yeah and i loved i mean doing her shows and the chaos and the whole like you know it was all you know it's not it was so um punk still wasn't it even though she was like everybody was in the front row like it was so like mental it was really really exciting yeah it was really exciting and then fashion shows were much longer than as well it went on for yeah yeah exactly well you know then we'd have like three but you know some shows we'd have six looks yeah now they have one look and they have like five hours of hair make or like something ridiculous like the last show i did and lila was in it she had to be at the show at eight in the morning and the show was until seven at night god it's like fucking hell what are they doing to her yeah and then it was like rehearsal rehearsal rehearsal this i don't know i mean i have no idea i was like oh my god can you imagine i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't um get away with that i mean under the way i was like i'd turn up like half an hour before yeah everyone knew what to do even though it was complete chaos yeah and it didn't matter even if I turned up three hours before I'd still be the last one to get ready anyway so really yeah because I just couldn't stop talking to everyone I was just so I couldn't sit still so I'd like just procrastinate about having it done and I'll be like oh there's such calling first lips and I'd still be smoking back in the day yeah backstage yeah what what made you feel secure back when there were all the supers did you have like a big sister who super who took care of you I mean you the youngest of all of them and did you have like a favorite or yeah yeah I mean Christy and Naomi kind of took me under their wing it's uh you know yeah they did and then I felt scared but there was a long time where I didn't have friends you know who did as well before I even knew Naomi and Chris Carla Bruni she was so nice to me she took me for dinner once because I was like starving to death we were in milan she's like darling you know and i was like i'm so hungry when you know where i'm staying there's no food there's no room service and um she took me for dinner she was really nice what you don't hear about in you know film or you don't see in films or you don't hear about is all the loyalties in the fashion world and i know there's loads of terrible stuff but there are is a lot of good stuff and there's a lot of friendships and yeah people do look out for each other yeah definitely I mean when I there was you know when I had a bit of a uh what do you call it scandal um I had so much support from people in the fashion business you know that they were like fuck this and you know as soon as kind of I was able to go back to work I I got booked by everybody in like kind of like a um no we're not going to let them cancel you kind of thing yeah it was amazing it's so good because I mean I know fashion's corporate and everything but there's still the individuals within it are so yeah conscientious you know people really stick up for each other and they just don't take shit yeah and they don't conform nearly as much as other I mean I've got most I've been in you know most of my oldest friends are in the fashion business I mean a lot most of my friends I've met through the fashion so you know it's you know it's not they're not just fashion people they're like my oldest friends yeah I mean I've known Jess Hallett for 37 years it's like fucking mental so amazing she was a booker did Did she work at Storm when you first started?

33:45Yeah, she worked at Storm. She was my booker and then she was my PA and then she was my maid of honour and then my daughter's godmother and, you know, she's family. She comes every Christmas. So it's not really through fashion you make really good friends. Yeah. I think because people work so hard as well when you work together in that way. They understand what you have to do. Like, if you're told, like, normal people, like, you know, my mum still doesn't understand. Like, when I say I've been working so hard, she's like, yeah, right. What do you do? Stand in front of a camera. That's what I think that she means when she says she don't work.

34:28Like, you don't really know what I have to do. I know. I think people perceive models, I think maybe less so now, there seems to be finally a real appreciation of what a model can bring to the story, how a model lights everything up, gives the... Because clothes are nothing without people, of course, and that's why, you know, when you did go through that horrible time, everyone just wanted to show you... We wanted you there, you know. We wanted to be by your side and you showing how great you can make everything look. I think it's quite funny. Even yesterday I was working and they were like, God, you're so good.

35:21And I was like, people are still quite surprised when they see me working, I think. Some people just don't get it. They're like, really? How is she still working? and then I go on set and they're like oh god do you know what I mean yeah for sure I mean I go I do get I still get surprised some you know that I get like oh my god I'm still working it's mental I do get surprised because I did not think that I would be working at 50 that's for sure I was like 19 I got my whenever it was 18 I got my first vocal offer and I was like okay I came out I'm fine with that that's fine I did I did it I'm done even if I never work again I did Vogue you know what I mean yeah and how many Vogue covers have you done now I don't know a lot I think I'm like I've had the most British Vogue covers do you ever do runway for a boyfriend to remind him of how good you are that's so funny imagine like this is what I used to be like this is how I can move no I never do run but I do strip I do as I do quite like stripping as my I think it was um I think it was I was a stripper in a former life actually and being naked do you how do you feel about being naked do you wear something to be naked or do you are you good at being totally naked I need a heel or if I'm totally naked I mean I can do I I mean I don't on my own but with a man I definitely I like to have a heel yeah so interesting that because I don't want to I can never be totally naked but really no I like to have something on and then I'm naked but being interesting being naked it's like I suppose like when I was sitting for my dad I'd have no clothes on yeah and that was there was that was for a purpose yeah yeah if you're a picture I can be like well yeah when I said for your dad I was totally naked and yeah it was a different exactly it was a purpose but in my own life I could I can with a shoe but you wear something like what what would you wear am I not supposed to ask you questions you can ask i'd probably is anyone gonna do you no yeah i wear i probably wear a bra i don't know why i mean i've got hardly any tits but i like that i somehow feel like i've got some control or there's something still left to take off oh god now i'm gonna take that on the shoe is still very good something still a mystery i don't think there's anything mystery with my boy by now I might try the shoe though yeah I put the shoe on quite good and are there certain clothes that make you feel better when you're feeling low

38:25no I think if I'm feeling low I'm feeling low like if I oh I actually if I'm like you know if If I'm feeling low, usually I don't want to go out. So if I, like, have a bath and put, like, a nice nightie, like something like that always makes me feel better. Like going to bed in, like, something pretty and, like, oh, even though if I'm in bed and I'm not going out, then I still feel better, yeah. And what's the best present that a lover has ever given you? It must be quite daunting to buy you something. what like clothes wise yeah oh um my ex-husband bought me a pair of shoes he's the only person to have ever bought me a pair of shoes not purse he's the only lover to have bought me a pair and they were christian louboutin and they were like cerise cerise pick they were satin and they were like a purpley pink they were fucking gorgeous i was like when i opened that box i was like that was inspired because I fucking loved them and I was like that is the sexiest gift I've ever got that's really yeah they were amazing class they are amazing I still got them are they the ones he called after you the so Kate shoes no it was before the so Kate it was like it's a stiletto but it wasn't a so Kate yeah I can't walk I can't walk in the so Kate anymore I try to walk in so Kate's so high.

39:56I know. It's ridiculous. I don't know how I ran around in those for years, but I did. They're so high. I think after the pandemic, I just couldn't do it anymore. Two years of not running around in a So Kate, and I was out of practice. He's making them short. He's made them smaller. He's done a lower version. A lower version, yeah. Because granny can't wear them anymore. so it's something about stilettos that are harder to wear as you get older but i still wear platforms and i love a built-up shoe yeah i love to have elevation yeah that makes me feel i can do anything anything yeah if i'm feeling low yeah and i get the shoes on yeah something then you're ready to go you can like take on the world kind of yeah yeah and do you have a fashion kink what's that mean well i'm not totally sure but it's it's a sort of an off thing that you go to as a sort of as a sort of guide to feeling I've got it for tonight No Black I mean I don't know Well like if in doubt Black cocktail dress I don't know What's a kink?

41:20A kink Or like is a kink something that you wouldn't expect? No I think it's a sort of aberration from your normal self Like I mean it's not like you do think You have your very original full stop anyway but it's like and you're you're so familiar with fashion and is there a like a place where you go against fashion but it's part of your sort of way that you know you've got it right no I think no I mean fashion for me like there's always something in my mind that's like like that's leading like is it it's like a weird instinct that I feel and when I'm not feeling that it's a disaster like to get dressed if I haven't got like some kind of excitement or something if I'm nervous and I don't want to go or if it's like I just can't get dressed I just literally anything I put on just doesn't work and I just don't want to go and I'll like cry I have cried before like i haven't got anything and pulled everything out of the closet like once or twice in my life i remember like just having complete fashion crisis and being like in a heap on the floor with loads of clothes around me and shoes and like nothing is going to make me feel like i want to leave the house terrible isn't it but you know what i think a lot of girls have it and i don't know about men but i know like i know um i don't know about a lot of girls but i know they do they do they I think everyone has it like nothing fits nothing looks good nothing you know I think it's just an internal thing it's like a superstition almost isn't it you get dressed and you think oh no this hasn't worked I don't know what to do did I ever know what to do you know and suddenly yeah exactly and something I think it is like a super or something like for me something just doesn't feel right like suddenly like the trousers aren't fitting like they were or or it doesn't like hit the ankle like something like it just feels weird in my skin it just is like wearing a weird like it just it's what I like putting on a different skin and the skin does not feel like your own or something no I suppose it goes back to that thing of when you can feel a totally unconfident and you can get the clothes to do the job for you.

43:51You can follow behind it and then it works for you and then your confidence comes and you know that you have in your wardrobe these resources. I remember writing a poem. I tried to write this poem once. I tried to write it back. Well, I started and I was sitting for my dad and then he wrote the whole thing and it was called Dress Sense and it ended, In Your Wardrobe, Hang Your Brains. Oh, my God. Of course he fucking did. Clever bastard. That's so annoying. egg oh my god in your wardrobe hang your brains because he always had I remember like anyway you know like he had that same look all the time which was so major like that cashmere you know that um coat the herringbone what was it there yeah you know that herringbone coat and it was so it looked like you know he'd had it forever I don't know but it was so luxurious wasn't it it was like something like the wool or something it was like as though an animal had its coat on it was just so soft yeah it was so soft and it put him together i mean yeah i mean he could have been wearing like literally his pajama and you put that on and you're just like the chicest man in the room yeah that's what i like see i do like that kind of dressing yeah for a man it's the best a suit someone who knows yeah exactly how to wear a suit is we're done yes thank you so much Kate for being thank you I can't wait for my um evaluation well it was so lovely to have you here and to hear your amazing thoughts and feelings and thank you.

45:55Thank you. You're free.