Fashion Neurosis with Kojey Radical

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1:10Hi, come in.

1:18Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Koji Radical. Oh, go on. Can you tell me what clothes you're wearing today and why you chose them? It's like an AVAV. I don't know if it's AvAV, like hoodie. Margella shirt that I cut because it was way too long. Some random jeans that I found in bricklaying that I cut myself as well. Some AvAV shoes. I feel like this is probably like a Stenson hat I've got somewhere. I'll be finding stuff and then all my rings. I think all of these are the Great Frog apart from this one. But I don't know. There's only so many places in life I can get away with wearing these shoes.

2:02So I just took my opportunity really. But I don't really think when I put stuff on. I just kind of go with whatever I feel that morning. It's like I feel like clothes kind of give you the opportunity to kind of articulate how you feel before you've ever had to say anything. I kind of, for the most part, I always go for comfort on a normal day, just like every day. like what do I feel comfortable in it takes a lot of confidence I think to cut a Margiela shirt yeah yeah especially with the janky pair of scissors that I cut them with oh my lord if anyone saw what I was going through even just try making it even but I and I could get the tools to do it properly but no you know I think it's good to show irreverence to clothes as well yeah I feel like we can put them on a pedestal sometimes and it's like actually nah they're just clothes you know.

3:00Especially Margiela who does deserve to be on a pedestal. Exactly. But then I feel like his whole thing is just like almost everything it almost feels like he's made something and then customized it. No it's so true. The shoes are perfect for the sofa they just seem to be like an extension of the elegance. Yeah. Walking on clouds. That's really good. Walking on clouds. Walking on clouds. That's great. And you're a multi-award nominated musical artist who has also been described as UK's rap's renaissance man. You said you've always been a servant of creativity and I wondered how you wake up to that each day.

3:46As long as my eyes open, I know I've got work to do. I think everyone finds their purpose. I think making things is mine. And to a certain degree, I never really knew what I was going to do. When I was growing up, I kind of went through loads of different avenues and never with the intention of making it in any of them. It was just like, I have to do this, so I'm going to do this. And over the years, all these kind of like frivolous side activities kind of like came together in one outlet which was music and I think um that's how I got my name out there but it's interesting because depending on what angle you see me from I'm a different person you know because for me the word radical is the greatest description of anything that has good value and I wondered how you became Radical?

4:46Oh, I wish it was a great story like that. I picked the name Radical at a time where I was, I was a kid. So like certain words were just cool to me. Radical just felt like, I used to skateboard. So like, it was just like a slang word that kind of came up a lot. And at a time I needed a username because my Facebook and stuff kept getting hacked. So I was like, I'm just going to make a new one. and um i drew this comic book cover once and it was called the escapades of koji radical and it was me as this kind of like superhero figure on the cover and when i was picking my username i've looked down the side of my pc and i've seen the comic book cover and i was like that would work as a name and this is before i ever picked up a microphone or anything like that and um i think over time the name started to make sense like I kind of grew into my name because your actual name is Kojo right because I was reading that at school you were like dreading the register and everyone getting your name yeah so so basically so Ghanaian names we're named after days of the week primarily which is why the names come up so often you'll meet a lot of kofis a lot of kwekus a lot of kwamis or kojos they're all days a week um but depending on what tribe village region you're from the spelling will be different because like phonetically certain words come together to be pronounced differently in tree and um my name spelt traditionally has like w's and d's it's like it's a whole thing and like being over here which is all I've ever known like I was born here but like my name is definitely very traditional Ghanaian name the register was was was a was an ordeal and I think my mom just kind of was just like let's just remove the challenge and when they can put like oh what what else are they called like what else do they go by she just spelled it phonetically so she spelled it k-o-j-o yeah so for ages I thought my name was spelled k-o-j-o until I learned to actually spell my real name which was k-w-a-d-w-o wow yeah I used to get called all sorts of things fiend few mostly fraud so how do you say it?

7:13Freud because it's a German Austrian name and e-u is oy but I just got rather used I quite like being called fiend that was cool like alright yeah yeah yeah use them as alter egos if you know and your artistry started with a love of poetry when did you first realize that language was your ally oh i like the way you phrase that question when was it my ally um i used to um go to a place called hoxton hall and there I met a guy called Rhymey and he was uh I don't even want to say a local MC because I feel like talent wise he should be global but um but at the time it was like growing up in Hoxton everyone knew Rhymey Rhymey was the rapper from Hoxton and um and repped Hoxton but also kind of gave back and would work with the kids in the area or whatever through Hoxton Hall and um I remember one time we were set this kind of challenge and it was to write a poem and I've gone away and I've written this poem and I've come back and he was like, you're rapping it, slow it down.

8:32And I said it back again slowly and it's like announced all the words and all that stuff, got it all out clearly. And he was like, your pen's special. Wow. And I was like, thanks, mate. That's goosebumps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was just like, well, maybe I should keep doing this. But I never took it serious. And like years and years later, a guy called Sully Breaks had come to my college. And Sully Breaks is like a prolific poet from the UK, been doing his thing. And I think he's actually even doing a little bit of comedy now, interesting enough. But he came and he was doing a special assembly that I didn't really even know was happening.

9:14And one day we just got asked to go into like the assembly hall and he was there and he's doing these poems and everyone's like transfixed and like locked in on everything he's saying. And I'm like, well, that's cool. And I've turned to my boy and I'm like, I could do that. And he's like, go on then. And I was like, all right. What should I write about? And he's like, I don't know. Write about feet or something. I don't care. I was like, okay. So I went home and I wrote this stupid poem about this lady having her feet out on the bus. and I came to college the next day and I've said it in the canteen and then everyone's crowded around like right I was sick do it again so I did it again do you remember it could you say it now absolutely not I don't even remember a lyric I don't even remember a lyric from it because I think I purposely just tried to delete it from my brain because it was it wasn't what I wanted to be known for you know like I think once I realized I can capture people's attention with the poetry I didn't want to be like a comedy poem writer.

10:17I wanted to use it to actually speak about what I felt and what I was seeing around the world. And kind of very quickly started writing about like life and my mental and politics and all of that stuff. And yeah, eventually through kind of chasing the spoken word scene around, I was like, I'm in the grand scheme of the scene, I'm not that good. so how do I how do I make myself stand out and I started incorporating music bringing my guitarist maybe like a cajon player to kind of give me something to bounce off in terms of like rhythm and suddenly like the crowds got bigger you know until here we are today so great and who were the poets that you first read and loved?

11:10oh I always say it's Saul Williams and Benjamin Zephaniah. Benjamin Zephaniah in a literary sense, like reading his poems, was always so interesting to me. And Saul Williams in a performance sense, in a spoken word sense. I used to watch his clips on Deaf Poetry Jam a lot. And yeah, one day he took me on tour actually. Did he? Yeah. I remember this one particular show. that we did. I think it was at the garage in Islington and he invited me on stage with him while he was doing his set as well because I like opened for him but he was like come back and we shared this moment on stage together and I was like wow.

11:54I wonder if he'll ever remember that because that would never leave my memory. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But I wonder if that was a thing for him or if it was just him like arm around a young G. Do you know what I'm saying? Like just go for it. But hey, it inspired me. Yeah. they're so important those moments i got really into the last poets do you know about them yeah i do so who took me i think i see them at ronnie scott's yes yeah yeah yeah yeah someone took me there about 10 years ago yeah i was there is it yeah yeah i said well my bad my bad my bad my bad i love them and i became friends with with them actually because i i was i was aware of them when i was a teenager and then when i was doing one i just decided to make a jumper with the last poets on i didn't know if they were still active i couldn't find anything wow so i made this jumper and after about a year maybe i got an email saying you're treading in murky waters why are you using our name so i was like oh no oh god i was really excited and like i'd done an homage and that wasn't well you know so anyway after a certain amount of correspondence they came over and and we met up and they came for dinner in my house really what'd you make them well i was so anxious my i my ex husband who was a really good cook he made this amazing meal and i thought what if it's not enough and so i got some extra like takeaway and some really nice rum punch and we had such a nice time and then and i've then become really close friends and um i went to see abydon ayawale when i was in New York last, a couple of months ago.

13:57And it feels like really close and their lyrics and their words and - Incredible. It's just so meaning, it's everything. And there's something about poetry. It's just like intravenous. It just goes straight in and you don't forget it. It's so intense. Exactly. I remember when I was coming up, it was the spoken word scene was kind of like, it was almost like a variety act so you would get a lot of shows that were being put on and you'd have like a singer you'd have a rapper you'd have a comedian you'd have whatever it was and then you'd have a spoken word artist and um the spoken word portion of those shows kind of always like you could tell like everyone was super transfixed and whatever that person was saying and I think even being in those audiences was probably what made me kind of get that imposter syndrome of going ah that's good like what i'm doing is all right but that's good you know and um i kind of even now i kind of carry that imposter syndrome through but i'm learning to get rid of it i think do you think everyone who's kind of driven has that i don't like that phrase because i feel like the p i mean you aren't an imposter you are the real thing and that's why everyone is so drawn to what you do and how you do it and then i don't know where that phrase it feels like it came out of a sort of you know bad magazine yeah and but it's i think it's looking for the next creative opening is like okay where am i going how am i going to move forward and that's useful unless it's crushing you yeah and uh but but ramesh was saying to me yesterday we were speaking about this yesterday and he was basically saying a lot of the time that comes from the expectations you have on yourself yeah yeah and i guess the moment that you stop having those expectations what happens to you so it's like maybe lean into it you know like maybe stop seeing it as a hindrance and something that's supposed to like anchor you down rather than it being something that kind of sets you free into whatever else that you want to do yeah yeah that's a good it's always good getting other people's ways of how they handle this stuff yeah it's so daunting yeah i always find after i enjoy my stuff through the ears and eyes of other people no it's a great exhilarating feeling and you cite your mother as being a very supportive person in your upbringing and I wondered was it a soft love or a tough love no my mom's gangsta she's like she's it's not soft it's not tough it's just love she's just a g in it like at the end of the day mumsie had to hold down a lot of us do you get me by herself and maybe by the time it got to me because I'm the youngest by far I'm the youngest by about 10 years Really?

17:07Yeah, yeah, yeah My sister's 10 years old Well, my youngest sister Who's actually one of my managers Is 10 years older than me Gosh So maybe by the time I came And especially by the time I fit my teenage years Maybe she'd like Calm down a bit Or softened up a bit But there were still certain things That she weren't going for I remember there was one time There was one time I'd come to her now And I'm like, yo Because I was working part time I'm like, yo, Mumsy, I want to, what's them people called, yeah, at the galleries that stand there and they tell you about what's in the exhibition? Oh, yeah, they're docents, is it?

17:46Them man, yeah. Yeah. So I said, I said, Mumsy, I want to be a docent, yeah. And she says, what's that? I goes, oh, you know when you go to the galleries and the people that are standing there, they tell you about the exhibition or whatever, and it's a thing, like, it's nice in there. She was like, is it paid? I was like, nah, nah. She's like, you wanna be standing there for free? I was like, I mean, when you put it like that, she was like, go to work. And my mom was never like, you can't follow your dreams. She was just more like, make your dreams make sense. You know, like don't be a burden because of your dreams.

18:28Do you know what I'm saying? Find a way to make your dreams make sense for you. And it was never like I was like scared to tell my mom what I did or anything like that. But until I made it make sense, I didn't feel like it was worth telling my mom. So I remember like, I didn't really know. My mom and my sister didn't really even know I was doing music at this point. And then I had a couple of tunes and I get a call from young father's manager. And he's like, oh yeah, we want you to come on tour. it's like 17 dates but the boys really want you on the tour I'd never I didn't know what that was so I've gone home and I'm like mum, mama, sister gather around and I've told them like yo I do music and I'm doing pretty alright and there's this big band that just won a Mercury Prize that want to take me on tour and my mum's just like looking at my sister like And my sister's like, that's amazing.

19:31You should let him go. My mom's like, well, all right, go then. I was like, that's it. I don't know how I'm going to go. And then my sister sat there on me on Trainline and Booking.com. And we booked all the trains ourselves, all the rooms. Had to go lowest to highest because you get me, early days. But booked all the rooms now. And then off I went, me and my guitarist, a guy called Jude. and um yeah that that was like that was a test that was a test because i think up until that point music was kind of like this fun thing i was doing in my local area that was kind of building traction because of like soundcloud and tumblr but it wasn't like do you know i mean like i went i went hitting the road and then all of a sudden it was like okay wake up train next city boom show pack up next city like you're moving you're moving and grooving and yeah there was ah there was one day sorry if I'm just chatting too much no this is great it's lovely there was one time yeah this is why I never been to Oxford again Oxford might never see me again we still got beef Oxford yeah we still got beef Oxford because so I feel like Oxford must have been like city number nine or something like that it was like mid tour and up until that point we had run into some jankiness like there was one promoter in new castle that didn't want to pay us or whatever it was like some silly business there but everywhere we'd go the routine was kind of similar yeah so you get there uber to your hotel quickly check in boom drop the bags off head to the venue sound check go get some food come back do the show easy because young father stuff was already on the stage so and my setup was mad simple it was just my laptop and the guitar.

21:24So it's like two DIs and you're good to go, yeah? So get to Oxford. There's no Uber. You have to get a taxi. I didn't know this. So we're standing outside that station for time. Finally get a taxi, get in a taxi. Taxi man tells me, depending on where we're going, the tariff goes up. I say, where we're going? He says, yep, up. So then now I'm paying more for this taxi than I would have paid for the Uber. but I'm like, all right, boss, take me where I need to go. So we're going now on our merry little way and about five minutes away from where we're going, he's saying, ah, there's something about this road that sounds familiar.

22:02So I'm like, what does that mean? So then boom, pull up. Ah, yeah. There's a brothel on this road. Opens the door. I'm like, huh? What are you talking about? So I get out, there's no hotel. I'm like, there's no, there's no way. but it's just this house in it and like they've got a sign that says whatever whatever hotel like they're running a hotel out the crib i'm like all right cool whatever this is what you get for going lowest to highest but it's my business so we're getting in uh they're chatting mad fast asking me to sign the contract sign the contract pay the deposit they give me a key the key says like 112b i'm looking around this gaff i said there's no way there's 112 rooms in here He says, nah, nah, you gotta go up the road to door 112 and it'll be room B.

22:50I was like, right. So we carry all our stuff up the road, get to 112, open the door. It's just sticky notes on the door, A, B, C, D. Like it's just, we're like, huh? And through the hallway, we see a man with a lady that I know they did not go school together. So I don't know where they know each other from, but they're in this building now anyway. Boom, so they go into their room now. We're like, open B. Bear in mind, everywhere we go, we've all the twin rooms. This is just one big double bed. Yeah, look like the sheets have been starched to the bed. Like the whole room just had this green tint.

23:26The TV had the big back on it. Like there was mold in the bathroom. It was grim. And we're like, there's no way we can stay here. We go back, have to argue up the man at the other place to give us some of the money back. Gives me a little bit of the money back. bear in mind i'm only getting about 100 pound a night only because young fathers is giving me an extra 50 out of their own pocket so boom now i'm in the red anyway between the cab and paying for that i'm in the red but we have to get to somewhere else to stay find a little travel lodge somewhere again big tariff so i'm super duper in the red get there pay it get back to the venue do my sound check one of the band members from young fathers he didn't even know i needed it i think he could just towering his heart.

24:12Took me out for lunch afterwards, after my sound check because Lord knows how I was going to eat that day. But I've ate with him, he's giving me my advice. I'm feeling super inspired now. Get there, get to the show, I'm ready. Doing my show. I'm wrapping my little heart out. Nah, giving it bigger now. Middle of the lyric, I'm down, I'm going up.

24:37I look up at the sound man. Turn the mic off on me saying changeover. I didn't even get to say goodbye to the crowd. No. Turn the mic off. So I'm like, bearing in mind, Young Father stuff is already on the stage. They have to just lift the curtain and the show is ready to go for them. So there was no changeover. He just was tired of me. So I'm just sat in the back now staring at the ceiling thinking, boy, do I even want to do that? What is this, man? Like I'm struggling through these nights, man. I'm broken now than I was when I left. Do you get me? Like what is this music thing? Like what am I doing?

25:19I sat there and I thought about it for time and I was like, bro, what else are you gonna do? And I just got up and got on with it. Finished the tour out, sickest tour ever. Do you know what I mean? But that was the day where I really had to sit there and think to myself, boy, is this what I wanna do with my life? Short answer was yes. and here we are today, man. I'm on the sofa. You get me? You went through the mirror. Yeah, I do. But you haven't been back to Oxford since. They couldn't pay me to go back to Oxford. They could pay me. Large sums. Yeah. I bet they will as well. I'm really pleased that the Jane Goodall collection with Brilliant Earth connects to my vision of how we can live in harmony with nature.

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27:28And you have amazing style and you dress in a superb way. Thank you. And were you obsessed with anyone's look when you were a child? Oh, bare people. Because I went through phases, innit? I went through phases. And the phases were always linked to the music I listened to. Do you get me? So when I was skateboarding, I wanted to dress like Pharrell. But like, not like, I wanted to dress like Pharrell when Pharrell was like, pretending like he could skate. And there used to be these merch t-shirts that said, Skateboard P can't skate. it's funny as hell but um yeah i wanted to dress like that it was like supra days like there was this trainer brand called supra yeah i remember and um i saved up my little shillings when i bought these shoes man i bought them rocked them till to the back started to lean up uh i don't even know what angle to call it no more but i burnt through those shoes but and then there was like my little rocker stage when i thought oh yeah man i'm into i wanna I want to be a little punk boy.

28:31And then there was my super colorful stage when everyone was jerking. I remember my first pair of skinny jeans, man. I got them from Uniqlo after my GCSEs. Gosh, I can't picture that. Yeah, aced that. Boom. Went straight to West End. That's when West End was a day out. Yeah. Went to Uniqlo. Boom. Greased my legs up and jumped in them skinny jeans. Asked me if I ever do it again. Maybe you're the only person that's ever looked good in the skinny jeans. Maybe. but at the time everyone wanted to be a little jerk everyone wanted to do the little dance moves we was rocking plimsolls outside man changing the laces in the plimsolls do you know what i mean roman road market get your fakes had me a couple fake louis belts yeah man all sorts a lot of trial and error to get to where we are today but my mum would tell me like when i was a kid i'd get back from primary school or nursery or whatever get changed three three times in one evening.

29:29Really? Yeah, the outfit for dinner, then my after dinner outfit, then my bedtime outfit. She was just vexing me all the washing. And she just allowed, she didn't like try and stop you or she was just - She called out, I'm too quick. Too quick. Oh, that's such a, I love that story. It's so good. Yeah. And sometimes you wear grills and I wondered what it feels like to wear a grill. Is it like - You ain't got a grill? Come on, man. I've never had one. Is it like a protection? I thought it was more just a guy thing. That's what the next episode is. We just pull up somewhere, get a mold done. Get a mold done for you.

30:10And what's the feeling? How does it make you feel in your heart? No, never had anything. Not even like an Invisalide, nothing. No, no. It's a feeling on your teeth, but I think it was kind of linked to... Like I remember growing up and seeing grills on my TV kind of was linked to a lot of like American down South culture. The Air Force Ones, the grills, like it was all like this aesthetic. And then I think maybe the initial meaning or the value of what grills were kind of been lost over time just through generations, not necessarily knowing the history. but I think um I think for a lot of people their insecurity one of their first insecurities is usually their teeth and I feel like I felt like grills kind of gave people a way to wear their smile again yeah there was like a generation of kids that didn't want to smile until they got grills in their mouth and um I was probably part of that generation um but also it's like them learning how to make them.

31:16Like there was so many, like a lot of the girls I've made, that have been made for me were made by kids that were learning the craft, do you know what I mean? And starting their own business for it. And then now they got shops in Hatton Gardens and stuff like that. But before it was them running around with their little mold kit, just trying to figure it out with a little Dremel and just work it out. And then what now everyone's doing a tooth gems. I ain't quite got to that. but I've lost I've lost more girls than I can count really where do they go I mean everywhere like tissue yeah do you know what I mean like I've got to eat well I'm putting tissue leave the restaurant it's gone nah I lost I lost one recently I was doing a show and I always like start with the ambition of thinking I could rap in them and then it's TMI but it works up too much frigging saliva in my mouth yeah so then I can't rap no more so I've got to like slide them out and I think I slid them out at a show when we was announcing the album and then put them in a cup.

32:18Someone dashed the cup away. Just lost them ones. Yeah. Or like some other ones over there, I sat on them, bent them up a bit. It's peak, but I'm gonna have to get some more. Because they have loads of diamonds and stuff in sometimes. Yeah, some people get the diamond things. I don't really like the diamonds. I like to keep it. I used to do the rose gold. I like a bit of ding. Yeah. like you Roy used to wear these amazing gold teeth but then I stopped wearing gold I only wear silver now I need to get some silver ones done if you're feeling low are there certain clothes that make you feel better if I'm feeling low what like emotionally

33:05yeah fabrics certain fabrics make me feel better really yeah certain fabrics make me feel better i like fabrics that are like softer touch like crushed velvets and things like that like almost like that weird kind of almost like not real fur like faux fur oh yeah kind of like that stuff um but it's it's it's tough i think i think certain clothes can make me feel low yeah because they don't fit right yeah so like putting them on me makes me go You know what I mean? And then sometimes guys get like, we get like insecure in weird ways. Do you get me? Like a t-shirt can be the meaning of like a gym membership sign up immediately.

33:52You put it on and go, nah, how did I let it get this far? And then you're at pure gym the next day, just curling, just curling. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? Like the medium tops ain't fitting the way you need them. You need them to hug. Now they're all baggy. I'll do the baggy thing. But before, I'd start sizing down. Start sizing down just for the look. It's interesting though with the t-shirt because it's such a kind of simple garment. But when it's wrong, it's more wrong than anything. Oh, yeah, it's awful. When it's wrong, it's bad. Yeah. It's bad. It's like, and then do you know what?

34:30If I have fun, it's like at a certain point, bad becomes good. Before, a belly top, impossible. can't go out in no belly top. But now everyone wants to crop their t-shirt to the point where it's all snail trail and boxer lines. Yeah. I'm like, what's going on here? Then I do it and I'm like, eh, it's not too bad. Do you know what I mean? You got to hate until you try it. Do you know what I mean? I'm going to hate until I try. There's so much to be said for changing, reviewing like your opinion. Yeah. I hated gazelles. I was like, why is everyone wearing these flat shoes? I put them on. I said, all right.

35:06I understand it though yeah they have a lot of charm don't they yeah just gotta give it a go man there's so many things I hated on until I tried it yeah skinny jeans I used to hate on those until I tried it but now I'm back to being a hater but at one point I was a supporter that's that's the joy of clothes to go in and out of or the joy of fashion anyway do you know what I hate single-breasted suits oh really I hate them god that's fascinating I need double breasted. I need two pairs or nothing. Something about a single breasted blazer makes me feel like I'm back at school. Okay. It's so powerful that the trap of like what something reminds you of sometimes.

35:52Puts me back there. School uniform getting peanutted in my tie. When you were shortlisted for the Mercury Prize for your album Reason to Smile, you described feeling trembly and almost tearful and it was a moving to listen to you being so unguarded and i wondered who in your life had showed you how to be like that as a powerful thing i don't think anyone showed me i think i wasn't discouraged for showing emotion yeah i think maybe that's why i go back to my mum being a gangster it's like i wouldn't get penalized for feeding in a way. And I think I couldn't really, like I was, everything was me back in the day.

36:42Do you get me? Like when I had to share my music, it was me searching up 150 blog writers and sending out the emails to all of them only to get two responses. It was me on my Twitter, going through all my followers, sending my link one by one to everyone. Do you know I mean, sitting there writing, one day I'm gonna get a Mercury prize. They can't stop me. Do you know what I mean? And then now I'm there, I'm like, ah, like it means too much to try and hide. And like, I'm a cool cat. I could be a cool cat sometimes, but it's like being emotionless isn't cool. Yeah. Like we're all human beings. Like our feelings, that spectrum of feelings is kind of what drives everything that we do regardless.