Fashion Neurosis with Kristin Scott Thomas

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1:10Hi, come in.

1:16Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Kristen Scott Thomas. Thank you, Bella Freud. You're recently married again. Congratulations. What's it like to have a new name? um it's funny that i've i've been thinking about that but actually i'm so used to taking on different names i don't think it makes any difference i mean it's a funny name because it's a difficult name to to for people to get right i never seem to be able to manage that to get a name that is incredibly straightforward and and um spellable scott thomas is quite easy really that is quite easy but it all you know i get called scott all the time because people think i'm a man really yeah i mean obviously on the phone but that's so funny yeah anyway scott thomas it'll be my new yeah code name for you in france they used to call me scotch tomate no yeah scott what does that mean that was a polite version means it was scottish tomato Scotch...

2:26Scotch tomat. Hilarious. That's a niche kind of insult, isn't it? Yeah. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? Today, let's go from bottom up, I've got some very cosy socks on, which I bought in Paris. And then I've got a pair of trousers, black I think actually the navy blue and then a navy blue spotted silk shirt I've always loved a spot polka dots what was the first garment that changed the way you felt about yourself what sort of age were you gosh I thought an interesting question I was really little I was about 10, I wore a bright, properly scarlet red wool shirt with someone else's name tape in it, Hamill Stewart, and a pink checked skirt with pleats.

3:39And I went downstairs with this and was told, what are you doing? You can't wear pink and red. Actually, I think it was more of sort of orangey pink. And I thought it looked absolutely fantastic. The two colours together worked beautifully in my mind's eye. And I thought, oh, that's really bad. That's terrible. I must be completely wrong. And that was a sort of piece of clothing that made me doubt my own judgment. So that was, I think that was the first thing, but it's not a very happy thought. So let's try and think of a happy one. I don't know. I think that it's interesting how people's judgment, and it's usually comes from someone close, like a mother who casts doubt on your, the thing, the choice you've made that is something to do with establishing your identity and having that kind of negated.

4:40I think it makes a huge difference on what you go on to wear in the rest of your life because it sets up so much. This thing you thought worked and it obviously did work, the orange and the pink, and someone said it didn't. So what is reality? Yeah. No, quite. and it was so disappointing that it was off limits, that I wasn't allowed to wear that. There was a sort of... I was disappointed in them more than me. It was something about being, if you don't see this, that this is great, then I'd have no respect. That seems like a very good reaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, yeah. I mean, clothes have always made me feel different anyway.

5:37I mean, the whole thing about somewhere very smart said that you start off your character when you're building a character with the wardrobe. and it's true because we build the wardrobes way before we get onto set as an actor so you kind of create this this this character by choosing the the clothes it's going to be seen in and what these clothes that are representing this character um and are sort of leaks of her personality and that's always that's always a bit that I really enjoy I mean usually enjoy sometimes it goes horribly wrong, but rarely, very, very rarely. That's so interesting that you build from the outside in with a part you're playing, whereas happens the other way around.

6:26Well, I know, but once you've got the outside, then you can start to work on the inside. And then obviously, sometimes that changes. So you can make a decision about a costume for a scene or something, and then you get towards it and think, actually, you know what, I think I should be not wearing that then I should be and usually when you've got a good designer they can you know we can you can work that out and or they can guide you in another direction or whatever but I mean usually that works quite well it makes a lot of sense it really does because I suppose if someone says these are the clothes she would be wearing you you know them the mood of that person or you have a tiny bit of connection to that.

7:12And you're so good at that. You're so good at conveying these inferences on camera and on the stage. Thank you. I do like to think that the characters that I play, the clothes are quite precise. It's quite difficult to stay away from fashion. because obviously, especially when you're doing contemporary characters, but I think, for instance, in playing Diana Tavener, we've really nailed it, I think. And I say we because it is, you know, obviously it's the costume designer is, you know, I don't choose the costume by myself. He comes up and offers all these choices and he has a really good eye And it's about proportion, it's about texture, it's about movement, all these things that are so sort of telling in a character's choice.

8:19But first of all, you've got the choice of the actual person and then you've got whether or not that looks good on camera. She's such a fascinating character and there's such a sense of her interior life. You know, she has to be strict and strong, but she has this kind of sex appeal, which is bursting out. And yet her clothes are quite restrained. But I can't even remember what they are, except for there's this kind of undercurrent, which is palpable. And it's really exciting to watch. Good. on your desert island discs back in 2003 you you chose a pair of christian louboutins as your luxury item what shoes do for you do you change when you put a pair of shoes on shoes are really fun aren't they they really i mean i've always loved sort of i know that i i chose as my luxury item sort of red beautiful sexy shoes or red soled beautiful sexy shoes um completely impractical on desert island by the way but i actually i'm really drawn to kind of a very sturdy things that can take me from a to z you know i really love boots and sort of clod hoppers and clogs i've got an absolute thing i've been wearing clogs since i was 12 But clogs are a cool thing, especially our generation.

9:51I wore clogs at school. We were obsessed with clogs. Do you remember we used to send off of them from Sweden or something? You'd send off of them and they'd come, you'd send them off in things like the Virgin newspaper at the back, the classified ads. NME. Do you remember that? NME. There you go. Yeah. That was it. It was NME and it was Virgin and you'd send them, send off for the clogs and the loons. The loons, exactly. I sent off the loons. We'd sew them up really tight at the bottom. What, to make them drain pipes? Yeah, to make them drain pipes. Take them in. Oh, my God, that's so cool. And you'd buy white ones and dye them.

10:28Oh, you were so ahead of the game. I was so slavishly. I had one pair of loons and a T-shirt with mirrors sewn on, which I wore every single day. Lovely. Those back pages, they were it. They were like the department store for provincial people. I know, I know. It was really fun, the excitement and the waiting for it to arrive. I think I only had one experience because in my household it was, and in my school, it was very looked down upon to be interested in clothes, to care about them. So I had to have slightly secret life, which I was also quite ashamed of. There was a lot of shame around wanting things.

11:15Oh, yeah, I know that. Yeah? Did you have that too? Definitely, yeah. Wanting because it was an imposition because wanting, you couldn't want anything because it was impossible to get and you knew it would cause problems because then there would be guilt. It was a never-ending stream of ideas. But yeah, that I remember, yeah. not wanting things but as far as clothing was concerned we had some sort of cousins and we always had their clothes so we would get these sort of deliveries of really nice clothes they they lived in in they lived on the continent somewhere um And so there were always these sort of slightly strange clothes, but beautifully made in fabulous fabrics.

12:12But, of course, I didn't want that. I wanted sort of white, shiny PVC boots and a crimpling skirt. That's what I really wanted. But, no, we had these beautiful sort of beautiful wool brushed flannel shirts and everything was just gorgeous, but with someone else's nametaping it. But not trendy clothes at all. Not trendy clothes. No, no, no, no, no. No. I think the trendiest thing we ever had was from Lady Bird. Do you remember Lady Bird, which is a range for children? Lady Bird clothes. And my sister and I had matching trouser suits, which we were very, very proud of. God, we never had anything like that.

12:52Never. Never. We didn't have new things at all. Yeah. And then I started making things. there used to be that thing called cloth kits where you could get patches and and then I got these jeans and cut us slashed them up the side and made a gigantic flare oh yes we used to put those inserts yeah make them flare-ier yeah that was yeah I remember that and and lots and lots of dressmaking we did lots of dressmaking when we were young because you just didn't there weren't clothes and anyway you couldn't afford them so it was so much cheaper to make your own clothes and accessible and you could make them the way you wanted to.

13:33And it was great. So I learned to sew and I'm, yeah, we made all our clothes. When I went to my audition with Prince, I was wearing a suit that I'd made myself. It was a very simple cut, but it was a linen, a green linen suit that I'd made to go to someone's wedding. And that's when I went to meet Prince for my first film. Oh my God. I was going to ask you about that when you started under the cherry moon. Yeah. And as his love interest and he's got to be the sexiest man that ever lived. And what was it like having his beam on you? And did he like you to wear certain things? Yeah, it was weird that because it was, oh God, it was so strange.

14:25being put into these I'd never really I'd never been dressed by anyone but myself I'd never had someone else's gaze on me to to turn me into something else that hadn't happened yet and so it was a weird thing to be put into these shapes that I would never even consider I remember one dress made out of sort of pale lilac Devoray velvet, which felt incredibly sort of vampy, and I felt incredibly uncomfortable in it. And did he choose all the clothes? He did, because he was the director, so he did. But, you know, he had Marie-France de Rouen was his designer at the time. She was making all his clothes for shows and things.

15:25and then she was hired to do the costumes on this and she made these really sort of extravagant costumes for him, those high collars, those sort of frock coats, the trousers, buttons down the side, all those sort of things. He did all those. I was a bit scared about what she was going to put me into but it was the fashion to have sort of 18th century frock coat type thing going on and we had lots of things like that and it was it was sort of yeah he must have been choosing it but he was trying to make me into make turn me into a love interest that everybody else would be able to relate to so you have to become a kind of slightly standardized version of love interest because you have to appeal to a lot of people.

16:18And that was so not me, it was so far from who I was, that was quite weird. Because it was an early thing in your career. First thing in my career. And, but do you think it gave you a kind of, a bit of agility about being able to cope with that? Because it's, it's quite difficult wearing things out of your comfort zone range. it is difficult wearing things out of your comfort zone range and that's why a lot of actors always kind of look the same in films or they do in French cinema in English cinema or American cinema they do change more into character but a lot of the French actresses will always be seen exactly the same thing but it is difficult and yes I think it did make me more agile and I think that that thing I was saying earlier about finding the character with the clothes that's something that I learned as I went along so that's something that I've sort of developed as I've as I've gone along to try and be brave by choosing brave clothes so once you've got the shell you have to then fill it and I'm thinking of particularly I'm thinking in this instance I'm thinking of um Only God Forgives oh yeah Nicholas Winding Refn um I mean I created that that character was we didn't have a budget for costume and the costume designer was also the set designer so she was completely overwhelmed and so she said would you mind going and doing your own shopping so I was let loose in Bangkok trying to find clothes that would be suitable um and had great fun doing it um but that was definitely a sort of because didn't you have a like crazy hair wigs yeah I had a crazy wig and I wanted to look as sort of brassy as possible um what was that dangerous that was really scary do you know I had I was thinking about this before I came here I was thinking about times when what you're wearing has really affected the what how people perceive you and how it makes you feel and I've never done kind of quote unquote in my real life I've never done and indeed in film because I was trying to avoid it so which because it makes me uncomfortable.

18:54So, you know, when we have to, we kind of get to a compromise, make clothes that are sexy. I don't really do that. So one day I did a photo shoot with a friend because I've been to a fancy dress party and I'd gone as Amy Winehouse. It was a pop star party. I'd gone as Wendy Winehouse. No one recognized me. Everybody thought this was hilarious. And then we thought we would do a photo shoot with me dressing up as different characters, which was such fun. And one of my characters was a man. You know, it was sort of lots of people do that now. But one of them was a sort of prototype for Crystal, the woman I played in Only God Forgives.

19:39And we had a blonde wig. We had massive lip line. and the costume person, the person who was dressing me, Vincent Daré, put me into this sequined mini dress with silver high thigh-high boots and a little kind of tiny little handbag and they took me out onto the street. It was the most terrifying experience I have ever had. cars slowed down people beeped one man actually tried to grab me and pull me up pull me off the street god people from the i mean we were doing a photo shoot so it was obvious people were looking but people were pressing their noses against the windows of the shops looking out pointing laughing I got insults, insults, people shouting out abuse from their cars.

20:33It was absolutely, and I was just dressed in these clothes. And in the end, it got so frightening that we went back to the hotel and we said, I'm not doing that again. Just enough, enough, enough. It was amazing. It really was amazing. Because you talked just before, you were saying things to do with proportion, And I think wearing an outfit where it changes your proportions or it changes how you address your proportions, that's what I find the most terrifying and the most insecure making. I could wear anything as long as I've got the proportion right. Yeah. But that where you're, you know, you're emphasizing, you know, your middle section, I suppose.

21:22That was, yeah, that was scary. Gosh, that's so dramatic. But I mean, I'm genuinely frightening. Yeah, it sounds it. Not just, oh my God, this is awful, but genuinely frightening. And very revealing about men. Because it wasn't women shouting abuse at me, it was men. Anyway. It's interesting because not normally dressing like that, you sort of think, I'm sure people aren't as bad as they sound, you know. I've always liked the look of nuns. I've always liked that sort of, I love the flow of the veil. And I love the sandaled feet. And I live in Paris, I live in an area where there are lots of sort of nuns, I don't know why.

22:13and you see them whether they're sort of almost just above ankle length skirts and they go along with their shopping trolleys and they've got these sort of flowing veils there's something really lovely about that you don't see or hear about nuns much these days but no you don't when we were growing up it was definitely an option i remember lucy ferry saying she wanted to be a nun. And I definitely, even though I didn't believe in God, I thought it was a bit like joining a kind of protest group. But of course, the moment of the excitement of renouncing everything and the exhilaration, I was in fact going to ask you about that, wanting to be a nun and whether you thought you could have seen the whole thing through or whether once you'd done the kind of grand gesture of giving things up.

23:12But you see, the tragedy of me is that I didn't really want to be a nun. I just wanted to, I wanted the kind of drama of it. I wanted the instant saintlyhood, which is why I became an actress, because it's quicker. Your picture is on those holy cards, you know, faster. There's something about the, and you're right about the renouncement. That is quite exciting. The thought of being able to renounce in safety. And with approval. And with approval. And also the uniform is kind of good. Oh, yeah. I was thinking about uniforms as well, about coming and about how I just can't resist. As I was looking for something to wear today, I thought, God, I wish I had a navy blue cardigan.

24:01And I thought, you cannot have a navy blue cardigan. That is pure school uniform. So never, ever, ever buy a navy blue cardigan. But I would quite like one. A nice thick one. I can make you one. You know. You lived in Paris a lot of your life. Yeah. And you have the refined association with French women, although you're cut glass English. And do you think French women dress better than English? I think certain, I suppose the, I think nowadays it's all so globalized, isn't it? And I think it's very difficult to tell. You used to be able to tell nationalities when you saw them walking down the street, but it's much more difficult now because there's a Zara everywhere.

24:53So I think, do I think they're better dressed? there's a certain style that some French women have that is sort of perfect, which I really love that. A sort of casual elegance that is, you know, really desirable, I think. And it goes along with sort of... It's a sort of nonchalance that I find very enviable. it's a kind of is it a chic would you say are you thinking of a middle-aged woman no i'm thinking about young women yeah young the whole range actually um young women who who are very they're quite staid i suppose it's quite restrained i wouldn't say stayed restrained and there's definitely the uniform is definitely is it's like bon goût or mauvais goût and mauvais goût is just a no-no and bon goût is is there's very very strict rules about what is bon goût and what isn't i've never really been able to penetrate that but anyway the the is far more rigid than we have here so here people are far more relaxed about what they wear how they wear it how they want to be perceived they're much more relaxed about it and therefore many more mistakes are made but they're sort of made heartily and that's rather nice I think and I think there's a lot to do with uniform so I mean in England you know all schools sort of seem to have uniforms and I think it's a great thing a uniform and so afterwards once you get once you're rid of that uniform sort of anything goes and there's a sort of freedom to that whereas the French never have a uniform at school very very rarely in very sort of snooty private schools but most French people will never have worn a uniform and the idea of it they find completely insulting and infuriating and outrageous that you should be told what to wear and yet they've created their own like sort of rules that are really really strict about clothing it's funny That's so interesting because this thing about you know and mauvais goût and bon goût and taste and code that, because there's this myth, French women are always better dressed.

27:42I agree, it's not quite what it was anymore, but maybe the lack of uniform means they get to develop their own sense of what works or not. There's something heavenly about the way British people just haven't the faintest idea. And that's very touching. And also you get some amazing outcomes. But this kind of thing that French women seem to have, which is an innate thing, and it seems to affect the way they walk. They have this great walk and they know what to do. They know that you don't put this with that. But we don't know that. No one ever tells us. They're quite good at choosing what kind of,

28:34who they want to be seen as. You know, they know the rules for dressing a la something like this. You know, sort of, so they're going to try and look like Charlotte Gainsbourg or they're going to try and look like somebody else or they're going to be, they want to belong to that group. So I think that their own self-inflicted uniforms or chosen uniforms are very precise about which gang they want to belong to, if you like. Yeah. I think we're much more, one day I'll be like this and the next day I'll be like that. And I'm going to try this and I'm going to try that. And I think we're much more experimental.

29:23Yeah. Also, I don't think scruffy really exists outside of Britain. Because when I lived in Italy, I would wear scruffy and I'd get these horrified looks from the factory where I was working because they thought I was dirty. and that really freaked me out because I really... You're quite a clean person. Yes, I like being clean. Yeah, I know. And they didn't understand about frayed, you know, or worn out things and so I had to kind of get the balance right. Get a bit of polish on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when I was living in Paris, people would always say, oui mais les Anglais. So I'm not quite sure whether that was what they were commenting on that.

30:08Well, people, yeah, there's this myth. But then there are all those amazing French people, the incredible style like Loulou de la Falaise or, you know. She was English. Yeah, well, true, true. Well, there you go. But you always think of her as being French. And that actor Pierre Clemente, who played the glamorous lover in Belle de Jour. Oh, God, yes. I mean, maybe he didn't dress like that, but that was punk rock, wasn't it? I mean, I was obsessed with him. Do you remember that? But I'm just trying to think of all the other sort of, and then you think of Anoukimi in, you know, with her Macintosh, and you think about all these sort of, or Brigitte Bardot with her fluffy skirts, or, you know, just amazing sort of silhouettes and styles.

31:14Yeah, I mean, it's really... French cinema has been... As Belle du Jour, that's Portuguese, but is it... He was Portuguese, no? Or was he Spanish? He was Spanish, yeah, Bunuel, Spanish. Bunuel was Spanish. But all the clothes were French. I mean, that was so good. Think of Les Demoiselles de, whatever it was, de Rochefort. Yeah. All these things have just so... And Anna Carina. It's amazing how film influences what people wear, isn't it? Yeah, very much. I mean, Anna Carina looked like she was at an English boarding school, but just so, so enchanting. So it was like a virus. When you watch some of those films, you just, you had to follow through.

32:04You had to obey the information that you would receive, which was to find out different things about how you could dress. And, I mean, as teenagers and stuff, I was just completely spellbound by those. Yeah. But a lot of it was coming from abroad, wasn't it? Mm-hmm. All that style was coming from Europe rather than America. I can't think of one. I'm trying to think of a film from America that influenced the way I wanted to dress. I don't think I can. That's such a good thought. It hadn't crossed my mind. I suppose Robert Redford, you know, Day of the Condor or that peacoat. But it didn't seem like clothes.

33:03It seemed more like these incredibly hot guys. Yeah. I always loved that Louis Mal had great costumes in his film and Viva Maria were they. Oh, God, that was fantastic, wasn't it? I made it. One of my first collections was all based on that. My first fashion show. Really? Everyone was in the style of. Oh, that's great. That was so good. Is there a particular garment you find attractive on a man? I love a suit. Yeah. Something really reassuring about a suit. I suppose it depends which kind. Any particular crushes at the moment? No, no, not really, because I don't really, I can't, but there's something.

33:53And there's something particularly elegant about, there's something very reassuring about a man who has a sort of quiet, as I think I used this phrase before today, a sort of quiet elegance that that suit can give. And I just love the feeling of assurance. I agree. I find it totally disarming. Disarming. A man in a suit that's just, because it's so simple. Obviously, if it's a bad suit, it's a disaster. But it's more than sad. It's like a magnet that goes the wrong way. It's just repellent. How could you do this, you know? And I'm obsessed with suits, as you know. It's true. You don't, men don't wear suits as much as they did.

34:53I know. When it happens, you just become completely docile. I do anyway. I just want to submit and be completely ordered about. Bloody hell, you should be lying here. I love it. But it's so powerful. It's so powerful. I know, I know. The discreteness. Yeah. Yeah. I used to, my dad, when he was working and I got to know him really when I started sitting for him. So he'd wear these, he used to buy these chef's trousers at Denny's in Soho and he'd wear those with these huge boots with no laces and quite a good shirt. He'd have these shirts made and then they'd all get covered in paint. Yeah. But then when he'd go out for dinner, he'd kind of suddenly appear in this gray flannel suit.

35:48And it was like magic. You know, there was a shimmering light. And I think I love that transformation. Yeah. But also with a man, it's fast. Like, I mean, I'm fairly speedy. There's no fussing. I mean, there's something really just so, that's what I mean, but the simplicity of it. No, that's a good thing. I think going back to uniforms as well, I mean, when you see men in a really glamorous, well-cut uniform with lots of braid, that is quite spectacular as well. And also when it's subverted, like a lot of the reggae artists They would take those, you know, kind of royal medal-laden things and just change them up.

36:47It's so disarming again, so glamorous. It's the taking of the traditional and the official and owning it as a revolutionary. I love that kind of defiant act. I find a bit of khaki on a man is irresistible.

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