Fashion Neurosis with Tessa Thompson

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1:27Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Tessa Thompson. Thank you so much for having me, Belle Freud. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? Yes. I'm wearing this Yves Saint Laurent suit, skirt suit, that I found at a vintage store recently in New York City. And I was having what I... I have these moments sometimes where I think, I must go in this store, there's something for me in there. and then I found this and I realized why. I'm wearing a shirt, a silk shirt by The Row that a friend gave me for my birthday recently that I was touched by because no one ever buys me clothes and I'm wearing a pair of Margiela little kitten heels that they gifted me when I went to the recent pair of show and I thought they'd be nice to look down at when I was in the couch and I picked the suit I guess because it felt I feel often when I'm getting dressed torn between them I guess something that feels more aggressively boxy or masculine and something that feels kind of feminine and and this particular suit felt like both yeah there's I've got the boots of those shoes and I've never worn them I bought them at the beginning of the hot summer and then was waiting and then I've tried them on a couple of times but I don't care if I never wear them they're the most beautiful things aren't they gorgeous I realized great that I the straps to these shoes they have a little ankle strap yeah and they're in my purse but I kind of think they're nice with or without wonderful yeah and the tight is very good it's I knew you'd be wearing a great look and you are the suit is incredible can I ask do you typically imagine what you think the guest is going to wear do you try to make guesses a little bit yeah because often when I'm studying a person I see them in these amazing outfits and then a lot of people arrive quite low-key yeah but I didn't think you would I was torn between that my other option was way more low-key but I thought I'd like to dress up for you no I appreciate it also I've sort of wanted to wear a suit you know I've never worn one of yours which I'm excited to one day but I thought I'd like to wear something that felt like an homage to do you oh thank you well I'm I'm definitely revering the whole what did you think I might be wearing well you're really experimental and daring in the way you put things together so I knew I'd be quite awestruck by whatever you had on and this is really exquisite it's it's definitely having an effect on my art what would you call this this thing that i have i know it's um sort of a mini skirt with a train or because it's more than a step it's yeah it's really great i must say it's like a kind of uh you know how you would it has that sort of masculine swagger and it's very feminine.

5:14Yeah when I bought it I thought I have no idea where I'll wear this and it was before I knew I would come here and then I thought this is the perfect place. Great. You're an acclaimed actor in both independent films and major blockbusters like Creed and the Marvel franchise and you have an ability to stop pulses with this look that you have that draws people in and it seems so natural and I wonder have you ever been self-conscious? Oh yeah. Yeah. Hugely. I think. Um, well my father is a big cinephile so I grew up watching films with him but he also because he liked film so much he also liked to capture images and he would often use me as his subject he would test light and try tricks on his camera with a super 8 or with um tape or then digital and he would use me so my sort of early experiences being in front of a camera was with my dad and then I didn't feel self-conscious at all I felt very very free in the same way that I imagine you being painted by your father right there's this kind of comfortability I suppose but then I remember when I first started acting and in television it's sort of and in film it took me a minute to really develop that sort of intimate relationship with the camera and I realized that it so much of it had to do with who's behind the lens you know

7:02and really allowing yourself to be seen by them. And because my earliest experiences were with someone that I felt, you know, so free being seen by, I never had to sort of do that work. And then when I started to work professionally, I realized that there's definitely work to be done. But you had something to draw on because of that experience with him. because he's the musician Mark Anthony Thompson. He has amazing style and developed some incredible looks and part of the collective musicians. I don't know quite how to describe it, the chocolate genius. Yeah, Chocolate Genius Incorporated. Yeah.

7:51And was fashion a thing in your household? Yeah, hugely. But it wasn't even something, not just my father, because he as you said he has such a extraordinary sense of style and always did and then my mom too and i would hear stories about my mom when they first met and these sort of wild looks that my mom would be in she had a real daring sense of fashion she worked very briefly as a as a model and uh she loved color and and and then she also you know learned how to sew and sort of could whip things up and make things so i always was very acutely aware that that fashion or first of all we all wear we have we have to wear clothes but that there's this extraordinary ability to express self with clothing and also neither of my parents dressed me they always let me dress myself from a young age really yeah so i and and i could pick things from their closets so there's early photographs of me in like one of my dad's oversized t-shirts and then a belt that I would cinch at the waist and that became a dress or later I would borrow all this vintage jewelry from my from my um mother um so I was sort of yeah just aware that the clothes were a way to express oneself and it was only really when I went to school and then sometimes would be teased for the things that I would be wearing that I realized that what you could put on could also, it could invite people in, but it could also offend or confuse people as well.

9:26But my parents, whenever I got dressed at home, they never made me feel like anything I wanted to wear was wrong or out of place. So I always felt a tremendous amount of freedom getting dressed. Yeah, because I watched some of your Vogue getting ready dressing videos and was really struck by how you put things together and it's so inventive. And do you remember the first piece of clothing that you became obsessed with as a child? Yes. My dad had been on tour, I think, in Paris, and he brought back a pair of green suspenders for me and a suit that had a little vest. And it was some sort of like light tweed.

10:17It was a little boy suit. And those two things I just was so obsessed with, A, because the idea of Paris felt so glamorous. I didn't even know, I didn't know its connection to fashion necessarily. I just thought, wow, something from Paris. That is so cool. And then also I quite liked that it was boys clothes. Yeah. Because then it felt sort of like a costume or a disguise. But the suspenders, I loved pairing with all sorts of things. And actually an odd outfit that I wore, and I only know because I've seen photographs, is I wore long johns with a white t-shirt tucked into it with those green suspenders and then this big beaded necklace that I must have maybe gotten from my grandmother.

11:02And it was such a funny little outfit with a pair of skater shoes. These simple. That sounds so good. And I loved that outfit so much. I just thought it was so cool. How old were you then? I was maybe six or seven. Oh, gosh. Yeah. That's great. And I just, yeah. But those green suspenders, I wish I still had them. Yeah, because here we call them braces and suspenders are the things that hold up your stockings. Oh, that's right. But I would have loved a pair of those. Yeah. They sound like they would have fitted the story as well. Completely. I also had these pair of boots, which I only know because my mom has told me stories about.

11:46They were lace-up boots. And in school, I got the nickname Granny Grip because they thought I looked like a grandma because I wore these sort of lace-up boots. But I love them. I love them. Because you describe being bullied at a particular school and your mother being very immediate about not putting up with any of that and getting you straight out. And do you think her deft moves about protecting you influenced how you make decisions? Oh, wow. That's extraordinary. I never thought about that. Yeah. Yeah. I think probably this idea that I'm, I guess inside of that, that there was nothing wrong about me, just the place was wrong.

12:33You know? Because it's quite common for the person in the position to make, you know, to the parent or whoever, the protector to sort of lose their nerve and think maybe that this is better than somewhere else. And it's so great when somebody in a position of authority just gets you out of the danger and protects you. And it sort of reminds you what to do, really, if that comes up again. Yeah, what to do for ourselves, too. I think she recognized in me that I probably needed to be inside of a school that cultivated what I think all children have, which is a sense of they're still finding their individual selves, but unsocialized.

13:27Kids wear extraordinary things, say extraordinary things. And this particular school was very rigid and also very big. And I think she recognized that I maybe needed a bit of a smaller space and needed to be in an environment that sort of nurtured and cultivated my individuality as opposed to suppressed it. And yeah, I'm grateful to her. God, it's so wonderful to have a mother like that. It's just, that's a rare thing. Because at college, was it at college or at school you formed a racial harmony group? In my high school, yeah. How did that work and what was your objective with that? um my I I think my objective was I did it with another student and a teacher we got involved in what we did it's sort of such a wacky idea now that I think about it and yeah it's a funny idea we got basically a hundred students together to talk about race and it was 20 students from at that point I don't know how we define race now in the United States but at that point there were like five main racial groups.

14:44So people that identified or were any of those racial groups, we had 20 from each group. And you came together and you spoke sometimes to your own race group about perceptions about yourselves relative to race. And then you spoke about perceptions about the other groups relative to race. And you put your ideas, different stereotypes, ideas that you either hold yourself or ones that you've been told and then we came together and can got to sort of be in dialogue with each other around our mutual perceptions and we spent a weekend doing that and all camped out at the school having these conversations about race it's a brilliant idea i I mean, it should happen in every school.

15:33It's such a genius to make it normal to ask questions and get answers and find out about. I mean, it's so obvious, but people are clunkily awkward about how to get somewhere or just dim-witted about what's obvious. Totally, and also scared to say the wrong thing. thing. And so there was something about writing these perceptions on these boards in secret in these groups where you feel safe, basically, to talk about some of these perceptions. And then you have a kind of privacy around speaking about some of those things. And then you come into conversation with others and really talk it through.

16:24I guess at the time I was just interested. I mean, I'm multiracial, so probably that was a part of the texture too. But the high school that I went to was a big public high school, 4 ,000 students. And it was the first time I'd ever gone to public school since that school that my mom took me out of. And something that I really observed at the time is that there was a lot of just, I'd walk around campus and people were sort were siloed in their groups. And a lot of the times they were sort of segregated by race. And I felt sort of confused by that. And also there had been a period at my high school where I think there was some, what the faculty thought of as racial related issues that were happening on campus.

17:16And so I guess I was just curious to talk about it and to create some way to organize around talking about it. And I think maybe it was before I understood that I wanted to do that with storytelling, that I wanted to create these things, these provocations that I wanted to be able to ask people questions through a piece of work that they could go home, hopefully, and talk to their friends and family. I didn't yet know that. It was before I started doing theater. I think I started doing theater the year after. But I think I was longing for a way to be in conversation with others and to start one and to wrestle with the things that I was wrestling with internally in community, I guess.

18:02That's so clever. That's brilliant. Yeah. I don't think it solved anything on campus. You just never know how someone will take something away and what they might do with it. You know, like your mother making that swift action. I know. That's so interesting. I'd be so curious to speak to another student that was there and talk to them about their memory of it, actually. It's such a formative time. Yeah, it is. it's really when you learn where you're going to make a stand or not really. Completely. Yeah. And sort of who you are and what you want and how you see the world. And it's oddly can feel like a pretty lonely time somehow.

18:54So I think, and I was in like so many clubs too. I think I was just really wanting to be in kind of community and find people that were like-minded and figure out things together. Today's show is brought to you by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. You know how certain pieces of clothing can haunt you? That vintage Saint Laurent blazer, the perfect pair of jeans that represents an entire decade's rebellion, or the 150-year-old shoe style we're all suddenly obsessed with. Claude is right there with you it's a thinking partner that helps you explore the deeper psychology behind what we wear and why it matters when you're trying to understand why certain designers become cultural lightning rods or examining how fashion reflects our collective anxieties and desires Claude helps you trace those invisible threads together you can explore how a simple hemline shift signals social change or why certain aesthetics resurface when they do.

20:00What's compelling about Claude is how it works with your curiosity. Whether you're analysing the cultural influences of a particular era, exploring the business behind the beauty, or working through your own relationship with style, it becomes a collaborator in understanding fashion as language, as history, as neurosis. Try Claude for free at claude.ai slash fashion neurosis and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. Because you talked about wanting to play roles normally performed by men, and I wondered who you'd like to play. Oh, that's a good question.

20:44I played Juliet once when I was 18, and I remember at the time I thought, oh, I'd really like to give Romeo a go. Yeah. It's such a good idea. I still think it'd be quite cool to do a production where you just swap every night. I agree. It would make it much more. It's always so boring, Romeo and Juliet. I know. And you featured in one of my all-time favorite music videos, The Pink by Janelle Monáe. Yes. I watched that about a thousand times. You were clearly the favorite girl in the group, and I wondered how do you deal with being the favorite? Oh, gosh. I don't know that that's something I'm often struck with having to be.

21:40you know that was so such a fun thing to make because there was so much spontaneity janelle and her team had told me this idea of this emotion picture that they wanted to make um but when i got there i didn't really know much and those extraordinary pants that i'm kind of birthed out of there was so much of that that was just sort of improvisation and and just reacting in real time to the clothes, really, and to how kind of dazzling they were. And I've always had an interesting relationship with color, and especially colors like pink or red, these colors that are sort of, I don't know, have this kind of particular connotation or something.

22:33so I also really loved this this idea of this this song this pink there's something kind of lush and and and sensual and also private about about that color and I think I always really enjoy it's what it's one of the things I love about what I do is that it gives me an opportunity to to wear things or to to to move in ways that I don't necessarily and it sort of nudges me in that direction so especially having the opportunity to wear to wear color because it's not always the thing that I'm inclined towards but especially while making that I realized I actually really love the color pink well you just you couldn't not love it I mean whatever ambiguous relationship you might one might have to pink after that you're just completely you got the virus I mean it was just so witty and sort of about girls and women in the way that we know as being those creatures you know that all the kind of little closenesses and yeah the clothes were amazing and I had somebody told me that that I don't know if this is true but the design school in Antwerp's the director had gone there and said you've got to make these things and yeah they'd worked overnight and made these incredible sort of vagina trousers which were actually the most glamorous dainty things you've ever seen in your life completely and in fact I was there when they arrived really on set and it was like it was amazing it was extraordinary to watch because I did I didn't know that they were coming and then they arrived and there was just this excitement from from everybody that yeah These special pants had arrived, and then when they unboxed them, I was like, wow.

24:48They're worth the wait, these things. Yeah, complete works of genius. Yeah, they really were. I don't know where they are now, actually. It's a good question. They should be in some sort of place that you can go that makes you feel better. Right, that you can visit like a little pussy portal. You can visit them. Exactly. because you you've said you're attracted to men and also to women and i wondered does your romantic style of engagement change depending on which gender you're with that's interesting i hadn't thought about that i mean i don't really know i've been thinking about this a lot because i feel like we're in such a space of um there's so much sort of focus on identity and how we categorize ourselves and um i think i've never felt too comfortable with that i've never been really interested in labeling what it is i am or certainly who it is i love i think i'm just attracted to people and and and to who they are and occasionally i've been surprised by thereby the people that i've been attracted to and where it's taken me but i think it's it's it's people first.

25:59I'm not sure that it changes my relationship to, to, to myself necessarily, but I, I just think that sometimes gender hems us in this idea of how we should behave or how we should dress. I sometimes think that we would, we would do things differently. Were we not so concerned, um, about how it lines up with, with, with, with our gender, frankly, I think that's the thing that I've always felt struck by. Like I remember one of the things I loved about that boy suit that my father brought me is I always felt kind of curious about the experience of someone else just full stop in general. I remember one time going to a park and tucking all of my hair into a baseball cap.

26:47It's actually very Shakespearean and sort of dressing like a boy and going into the park just to see what it felt like to be in this park as a boy and to interact with girls as a boy. Yeah. I don't think that it's, I didn't feel like a girl then. I very much did. And I think that felt, you know, very comfortable. But I think I just felt curious, curious about what it must, you know, feel like to move through space as a boy. Yeah. And I do think clothes have an incredible ability to literally make us move through space differently. and I just have a rather large appetite for feeling for feeling for feeling all sorts of ways and I I sort of feel like I use clothes to inch me there you know I I totally agree it's I mean there's something about your father giving you the boy suit which is aligning you with him almost like a father and son and having that kind of fun together by him doing that.

27:59It's true. I still love taking things from my dad. I love occasionally borrowing his jackets or vest or my little sister Jalen and I love to take his old like vintage torn up t-shirts. yeah I think that feeling of connection did you did you ever did your father ever give you something an article of clothing yeah well when when I used to sit for him sometimes I'd wear one of his shirts yeah and then when I'd go on a summer holiday he'd give me some shirts so I didn't get a tan he didn't want like button down shirts yeah he had men's shirts that sometimes he had made right and then yeah I would I liked wearing his things it just anything I could do to get closer and be more like him in a way yeah and then these shirts were quite kind of pure in a way and then I felt like I had this garb of purity but I could you know not be pure underneath that but it was it's like a kind of almost like one of those greek mythologies where they someone gives you this thing and it brings you something some sort of extra strength yeah and do you think it had a great influence then on the what you would make yeah i think there was something about his composure like because when he was painting he would wear more rag he would wear these chef's trousers and a shirt that had somehow got paint on so yeah and sometimes towards the end of his life he had this hideous jumper this v-neck this kind of weird barley colored thing and then there was an enormous hole in the arm so he just cut the arms off and he just kept wearing this jumper and and he'd sort of stomp around the studio but that was one of the only times he's ever worn anything I've thought oh I wish I wouldn't wear that and did you did he ever wear something that you really coveted that you were like I want that thing he used to have these these kind of um cashmere vests from huntsman which was a savile row tailor with a little white collar grandpa you know those stands yeah so he looked like someone from the turn like 1900 or something but they were really soft and i i really wanted one he never gave me one of those he never gave you one i remember going into closet which was my dad's old room in my grandparents house which now my dad actually my family lived there um so it's been in the house for ages and i found this one platform shoe that my from my dad from the 70s which is a purple sort of kind of a magenta purpley with a buckle and i just found the one And I remember for years and years, I was really trying to find the other.

31:18And then he also had a pair of purple velvet pants that I held onto forever. And then finally they fit me. Gosh. But I just used to think about him during that time because, yeah, he would wear lots of color and wore platforms. He was the coolest. When I looked him up, I was just astonished by how beautiful he was and still is. And just the way he wears things is really inspiring. I often get more inspired by a man's style because I feel I can do something with it. It will suit me more than a feminine thing, which I tend to look less feminine in. Yeah, I think I kind of have the same thing. although I loved big like frilly dresses when I was little like I just I just had a couple of those that I really really loved but as a family we would go sort of as a matter of necessity sometimes we shopped a lot of thrift stores and now my family still we all love to shop at thrift stores but really got me into vintage clothes yeah yeah and uh I went through a period I sang in this choir in Los Angeles and the dress code was you had to wear a floor a floor length vintage gown and so I went through just a period where I just had so many because I would just love to collect them and and I just love the sensation of sort of swaying and and singing in them but I agree with you like they felt like aggressively feminine I can only do it in that context but otherwise they just never felt like they you know sit on me right so great to have to wear a floor length gown then you just drop all your reservations go the full completely completely and I read that you have a tattoo of the word yes on your body and I I wondered what's that a yes to kind of everything I also have a no oh really which I got years later I think it's up here somewhere tiny little no or on I guess depending on how you're looking at it it.

33:28Yeah. I never bothered to look this story up to make sure that it was true because I didn't want it to not be true. But I remember hearing the way that John Lennon met Yoko Ono as he went to a group show. And in it, she had a piece. I forget what the piece is called, but it's just a white ladder that has stood in the middle of room. And if you walk up the ladder, there's a magnifying glass attached to the ceiling and if you find the right spot there's a tiny little yes and when he got off the ladder he asked whose piece it was and it was a group show so they said if that's pieces yoko ono's and that's how they met and i always thought it was such a romantic story it's fantastic what a way to meet somebody so good it's very alice in the wonderland right yeah this idea that you just if you follow it you know you'll you'll you'll you'll you'll find something um and I just love that story so much and I told the story to a friend of mine and she already knew it it was a story that she loved too and so we decided on a whim that we should go out and get these tattoos yeah together I like and she had 19 vintage typewriters and she happened to have one typewriter that did cursive writing and so she typed a tiny little yes just like the one that would have been on the ceiling and then we went in and we used that as the model for this tattoo oh that's so lovely that's great it's good to have a yes you know i think so yeah i like the idea of it being more for other people now you know i started getting tattoos because my skin kind of scars so easily like life would give me these tiny little tattoos and i thought i should just oh that's great kind of tattoo myself now um because the little scars i would have i wouldn't even know what they're from and i was like i if i'm gonna you know yeah be marked i might as well mark myself yeah things that make me remember something i i desperately don't want to forget And if you're feeling low, are there certain clothes that make you feel better?

35:45Hmm. If I'm feeling low, usually if I'm lucky enough, I probably would want to stay indoors maybe and be cozy. So something that kind of feels cozy. I always love people that like when they don't feel good they dress up or want to look sort of sexy or they want to feel you know that doesn't really work for me I think I like to just I like to feel sort of wrapped in something like like a sweater or the idea of like walking around at home in a robe like that yeah that feels good if I'm feeling down or maybe I would have cozy up in bed and I'm just wearing like a slip that sounds nice wrapped in blankets like something cozy I had a friend who would the more unhappy she was the less she'd wear I remember meeting her in the morning for a dog i mean this was years ago and she was wearing a floor-length aussie clark flimsy dress just sort of clinging to her body with this dog just dragging her along and really high shoes and i just thought it was so impressive that's so cool i i i want to be here Yeah, same.

37:15What do you wear when you're feeling down? I think a shoe kind of gives me courage. It's like if I wear a high shoe, like a wedge, you know. Yeah, not like a stiletto. I feel like it gives me literally more backbone and my resolve is like recalibrated. Yeah. So that kind of takes care of my misery. Yeah, I find that too. I find that too. I honestly think this is so silly, but you know, during the pandemic, I didn't wear any heels that basically that whole time. And, uh, it might've helped my spirits. It might've lifted them a couple of times had I, cause sometimes I'll, especially when I'm walking around, if I've gotten dressed in a rush and then I come home and I have to sort of tidy up the bits that I've left behind.

38:07Sometimes while I'm tidying, I'll just put on one of the heels that I've left behind. And the idea of sort of like clomping around my house, sort of tidying in a heel, I love. Yeah. It's great. It changes your physiognomy with everything. Completely. I have more courage than I did five minutes ago. This is definitely working. Yeah. My dog Coltrane has this funny habit where when I leave the house, I come home and he takes my shoes and puts them on my bed. It's so sweet. But now I think of it as him putting the shoes that he thinks I should have worn instead of the ones that I did wear when I left the house.

38:49That's so good. And he's unbelievably strong. He's not a huge dog, but he's had like big boots. Like he's, it's sort of, it's so impressive. How interesting. Yeah. Support for today's show is brought to you by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. I'm not exactly an early adopter, rarely first out of the gate with new tech. But you don't have to be a tech person to be curious about AI. So I teamed up with Anthropic to try Claude. I'm building a real budget for fashion neurosis. It includes paying people, planning seasons, and not guessing cash flow. I opened Claude, dropped in last year's costs and sponsor forecasts, and asked it to help me think, not write for me.

39:41It turned my chaos into a zero-based plan with clear buckets, production, post and marketing. It modeled best and worst case revenue. It helped me build a monthly checklist for invoices, payroll, renewals plus 10 % rainy day reserve. It even flagged sneaky line items like platform fees and insurance. And if you want to see what it can do for you, you can try Claude for free at claude.ai slash fashion neurosis. Because you said, I've always been conscious of ways in which identity is a creation and you have so much agility in this. And how do you anchor yourself when you're on this kind of exploration of casting an identity?

40:34Oh, that's interesting. I think maybe because sort of my early folks that I was interested in, you know, like Prince or Bowie, all these extraordinary people that just really play with identity or Grace Jones or they sort of felt like partially constructions but also they constructed the thing that is most true yeah in a way that's such a good point actually yeah finding your identity by exploring some other kind of visible yeah i think to make to make sort of visible fundamentally your your your values and your philosophy. Yeah. You know? I think maybe what grounds, I don't know, it's interesting.

41:30I think I used to think of, particularly in relation, I mean, you know, when I'm working so often there's this idea of sort of costume, the things that you put on that indicate character. um and i feel like sometimes so much of the you know a part of a big part of the work of character is done um with costume um but i don't think of it that way so much anymore personally i think i used to see like when i'd get ready for a red carpet i used to think of this idea as sort of fashion as armor and I don't know if that that idea at least for me personally feels kind of antiquated yeah in a way I think I'm more interested with being um not having any armor actually yeah like having less of a boundary between myself and and everybody else you know um yeah I think that's the way that I think about it now and I find that a lot a lot more grounding actually yeah it's a really good point it's something I've been thinking about a lot of allowing there to be less armor yeah and just yeah you might get hurt but you also might have this wonderful connection with somebody and that's worth it.

43:03Getting hurt is worth it for that. Completely. Because I also feel like armor implies that you're going into something that is violent or you sort of need protection. And I really understand why people might feel that way, particularly about like a fashion space or a red carpet. I suppose it can feel that way. but I think I'm just more interested in tenderness than I used to be. And I find that really grounding. It is. It's much more, it's like a million roots instead of one kind of spike that goes down in the earth to hold you up. Yeah. And if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

43:57It doesn't kill my attraction. It complicates it.

44:04And it makes it more curious suddenly. I'm sort of like, what a funny thing. it makes me question I suppose the nature of my attraction in a new way but I I find it kind of charming there are some things I really really dislike like kind of full stop like um when men wear pants that are too tight especially around the calves and ankles that's really challenging for me um but but you know clothes are things that we take off and i also find when you're attracted to somebody and and you're in relationship i don't know if you've had this or you feel this there's sort of like a the more that you become a unit you kind of influence each other you know because suddenly I mean obviously you're you're an individual and you and you dress for yourself but there is a there's a kind of consideration of the other so typically I find like when I'm really attracted to someone and them to me um there's something that kind of happens in our in our style collectively yeah and I kind of really enjoy that um so all that to say that if i'm really attracted to someone i assume that even if there's something that i really don't love that they wear that they probably won't wear it much longer yeah yeah hopefully and you just played hedda garbler and nia da costa's new film adaptation and your love interest, Dr.

45:54Loveborg, is a woman. Yeah. And you're mesmerizing in this film. Thank you so much. I much preferred Loveborg as a woman. Much better. I found him a bit of a bore. How many times have you seen the play? I think twice.