Fecal Matter

25:07Steven Raj:We were always at like the gay club. We were always at queer parties.

25:11Hannah Rose Dalton:Yeah, at the gay club. and um no yeah no but no one would ever hit on Hannah and then we went to this like straight bar once and this was right after we graduated so it was like the beginning of summer and I was I already ended my relationship with a guy I was with so anyways and I basically Hannah got hit on and she she was wearing like a low-rise like skinny jeans with like a pattern print like pointy boot and like a like a showgirl halter top thing that you made out of like something burlesque like a burlesque skirt that she transformed into like a halter top and then she had black lip and she had hair at that time but it was like a short haircut and she had like a lot of jewelry on and there was this guy that was like talking to her and hitting on her and I was dancing And I saw that all unfold.

26:07Hannah Rose Dalton:And in that moment, I was like, I have to make a move tonight because Hannah is actually a beautiful, you know, gorgeous girl. And I don't think I'm comfortable seeing her with somebody else. And this is my shot. This is like my moment. so before what if she does like you know get a boyfriend and we might have to wait to see where things go so that night I like took her after the party this was like maybe like 4 a.m and then we went to um the park near my place so we took the night bus and then we got off the stop before my place because the park was one stop before and I was like oh we should get off the stop here and then Hannah was like what are you yeah I said I said are you trying are you gonna kill me I don't

26:58Steven Raj:know why I just had this instinct that something was like severely wrong and I was in danger and then you said no like I just want to like walk to the park we should walk around the park I was like okay very weird you know it's four o 'clock in the morning and then you we walked to like the top of the hill and then you just kind of stood there and again like I really thought that something bad was gonna happen sorry and then he said no actually I want to kiss you and I said okay but I'm not gonna kiss you back oh I'm sorry because I was just like oh I don't know and I'd never kissed anyone before and then it was like oh my god but we're like best friends like what is it was all very confusing but yeah that was that was the first time yeah that's so romantic like Tristan

27:47Bella Freud:and is older but with a happy ending. Yes. Wow. Gosh. Your first kiss, that was from Stephen. How wonderful.

28:01Steven Raj:Hi, I'm Brene Brown.

28:03Bella Freud:And I'm Adam Grant.

28:03Steven Raj:And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop.

28:06Bella Freud:A podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling, and questioning.

28:11Hannah Rose Dalton:It's going to be fun. We rarely agree.

28:14Bella Freud:But we almost never disagree. and we're always learning.

28:17Steven Raj:That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday.

28:26Bella Freud:And if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction? I mean...

28:34Steven Raj:That's so funny. We were talking about this at Christmas with Rick. We were talking about this with Rick at Christmas or something. Yeah. And I think we all agreed. I don't remember what we all agreed on but

28:46Hannah Rose Dalton:I think for me it doesn't kill the attraction I think

28:54Hannah Rose Dalton:I enjoy when people have maybe like a normal look or maybe like not the best sense of style if anything I'm attracted to people's minds and sometimes you know as we would know better than anyone else what you think sometimes and how you feel doesn't always reflect how you look so I guess I'd be curious to discover the mind more than what they look like but at the same time for like a um for for me at least definitely you know

29:36Steven Raj:somebody with great style is a is a plus right i think for you i'm more of a mind person also but i guess the initial look across the table or something maybe is through kind of an outer shell perspective but um yeah i'm more i'm more curious about the inside but i love extremes so and bad fashion can sometimes be good in the end. That's what I mean.

30:02Hannah Rose Dalton:Like somebody that looks super botched that has like a crazy, you know, like leopard print leggings and like, you know, like, but it's like fully like, you know, full on.

30:14Steven Raj:That can also be interesting.

30:15Hannah Rose Dalton:That could be really attractive. I like when people are fearless, I guess, when they're fearless in the way they present themselves, whether it's good or bad. It's the intention of just like not caring what other people think about them. For example, homeless people on the street, sometimes I look at the looks and obviously it's true different layers of what they're going through, but sometimes it's so beautiful and you can't help but be like, okay, the proportions and the vibe. Same as you could be surrounded by people that have so much access to beauty and amazing fashion, amazing clothes, luxury brands, and you can look at what they're wearing.

30:59Hannah Rose Dalton:It's like, ugh. So I think it's more the energy and the vibe, but yeah. I know.

31:08Bella Freud:I was talking to Arthur Jaffer, the artist, who was on Fashion Neurosis, and he said it's strange what can be what you like and then what you find you're attracted to is sometimes a bit of a shocker. You think that's gross or hideous or really botched. I haven't heard that. But I'm sort of, you know, I have feelings for this. And I love that kind of thing. It's great. And how do you feel about being naked? Because does that involve being 100 % naked with no makeup Or do you prefer to have elements of your, I've heard you describe as fecal glam to do with your makeup and to feel naked in the exciting way that sort of that naked can feel?

32:06I feel like it's very, very important to have a relationship like with myself, with makeup and without makeup.

32:14Steven Raj:So I it's something very difficult and something I struggle with because sometimes I feel like I don't love myself without makeup or without the clothes and without the shoes and not just any shoe has to be a specific shoe. you know like um so for me a part of I would say my practice is to spend time with Hannah without makeup and also Hannah with makeup and not that they're I mean they're just they're separate entities and the almost different energies in a way but for me it's very important because you can easily get very lost into the makeup and almost use it as a crutch. And I would never want it to be a mask.

33:01Steven Raj:And I think for it not to be a mask, you really have to know both sides. So for me, like naked means no makeup. But I have to feel like Hannah in both. Does that make sense? Yeah. Not one should be better than the other.

33:21Bella Freud:Is there something that you wear that does that or is it about total nudity?

33:30Steven Raj:Sometimes on the weekend or when I have like a time off, I'll like go for a very long walk and I'll be like in a full kind of like running outfit. And yeah, sometimes I dabble in that. which is interesting and for some reason it's like a necessity not as like an escape from this but as a way to connect to that side of myself because otherwise I start disconnecting from that and I don't know again both of them have to be because yeah when you go to bed I have no makeup on and you have to have love for that side of myself also yeah yeah but it's definitely and I I think if you interviewed anyone who does this type of extreme, they would, a lot of people would feel the same where, yeah, you, you have to love both.

34:27Steven Raj:And it's a challenge, I would say. Yeah. What about for you?

34:30Hannah Rose Dalton:Yeah. I mean, I mean, sex with makeup is messy. So.

34:40Hannah Rose Dalton:but um I mean for me yeah I mean I I think I think Hannah for example she's really like 24 7 with the makeup it's like really her it's like really her ritual and it's a big part of her identity like I think we've been doing this for 10 years and I I was like that also before whereas now I'm a lot more like flexible also you know our work life you know being designers and brand owner like it's a lot of it's a lot of um there's less time actually to um really spend on on how I look as much as I did before but I'm still you know if anything now it's just strip back to the basics and like the the the most important parts which for me it's like definitely like how I feel and feeling comfortable but also still feeling like myself and that's definitely with the makeup and bald and this alien-esque look that you know makes me just

35:47Steven Raj:feel like myself but um and also let's keep in mind even if we have no makeup on we're still bald and eyebrowless and still wear you know this whole regalia here so it is still like such an

36:00Hannah Rose Dalton:extreme yeah it's like on a spectrum yeah honestly it's really on a spectrum where it's like there's the extreme version of ourself where it's like you know we can you know put on a full look where we can't even walk and then there's you know the version of ourself which is just like you know airport glam which is you know just like us looking like us but maybe not like not the makeup and sunglasses or whatever but definitely like when I'm at home and when I'm naked it's like definitely comfortable in my skin without the makeup but at the same time um I love um Pierre and I love this sort of way of expressing yourself, true sexuality, that is also very nuanced and, you know, Pierre Molinier with the mask and sort of this cross-dressing direction, which, you know, I'm also attracted to that in that sense.

37:02Hannah Rose Dalton:So for me, I'm intrigued in all of those sort of different ways of expressing yourself and sort of adorning your body sexually which is also interesting yeah um you know this the the sensations of things you know we I mean we go to a lot of the coolest parties in Paris like the ones where the music are the most intense and the ones where also there's no phones or usually sex parties and we we personally don't engage but But just seeing the looks and seeing how people express themselves and but with the context of attraction and sexuality is also super interesting and beautiful. So, yeah, I guess I guess it's it's definitely intriguing.

37:51Yeah, it's interesting.

37:52Bella Freud:I love those looks of people. You know, someone has gone out to attract. It's like insect life. It's one, I've got to find that lesser spotted turquoise winged butterfly out there, you know, and everyone is dressed up for to find that particular reflection almost. And I think I think that's really interesting. And you I read that you'd said we as a society are pressured into living a life that involves so much purchasing. And you referred to that, Hannah. And how do you manage to produce fashion, which is so hard to make any kind of profit on and sort of reconcile with that whole thing, which is very hard in this business?

38:44Steven Raj:I mean, right now we have a lot of support from Dover Street Market and Adrian Joff. and he helps us with all of our ready-to-wear offering, which has been such a big support because, I mean, me and Stephen, we had no capital to make anything and kind of get the ball rolling. And for the past 10 years, we were making stuff in our kitchen at home and selling stuff online, direct-to-consumer, which was working, But it took so much, you know, like all day I was at home sewing hoodies and T-shirts and cut up dress shirts and all types of things. And it took so much energy to kind of be that machine.

39:28Steven Raj:And with Dover Street's help, we can kind of just focus on design and the big picture, which has been really nice. So I feel like with their kind of support, we're able to kind of learn how to manage all of that and cash flow and all of these things. Right.

39:45Hannah Rose Dalton:Yeah, I mean, you know, our brand name is called Matiel Fical and we're called Fico Matter. I mean, the meaning behind it was always to challenge the wasteful side of fashion to always also challenge the luxury market. I think the luxury industry in fashion is so picture perfect. And it's all about selling this really glossy, very, very hyper beautiful way of seeing life. But the reality is when you go outside, it's not the case. So for us, it was like the brand name was really important to sort of make that statement of how we see beauty. also, which is, you know, we find beauty in all aspects of life, including the things that are the most gross or disgusting and repulsive.

40:41Hannah Rose Dalton:And it's also showcased that there's power in that. So for us, it's definitely been important to integrate that into our business and find a balance. I mean, you know, that's also why we do a lot of our artisanal looks and our artisanal pieces and and you know we were doing a lot of we work with like we said with Dover Street Market Paris which really helps us source some you know really ethical ways of creating and and it's been it's been a new journey for us because you know we started doing our thing ten years ago and it was really just sort of a protest against fast fashion so that's where we were creating pieces by herself and selling it online and it was all using upcycled materials we'd go like walking around and find stuff in the garbage and recreate it like umbrellas we would turn like beautiful halter top dresses out of umbrellas and you know just create these like really imaginative recycled upcycled pieces but in the end for us I think it was it was hard because I had all those sketches but I couldn't really create it because it was you know when you create upcycled pieces the main thing is you have to use a material that you have access to and transform within those boundaries yeah but when you're designing true sketching or whatever mood boards or whatever you sort of have the full freedom to create whatever you want but in consequence you know sometimes it's not using recycled materials so in some ways I guess we're just still navigating that whole transition but definitely our goal is to learn and to grow and and to have our our business and our our label to be you know sort of hopefully helping helping fashion be a lot more ethical and a lot more uh mindful because hannah when you said you'd got your outfit from the factory like how many um pieces will you make of this particular look um I mean not like not

42:45Steven Raj:hundreds not I don't know maybe like under 50 units of this suit you know it's not like a mass production it's not a mass production situation at all especially this design because it's you know you know I think the blazer is maybe three and a half thousand dollars retail so you know it's an expensive piece and it requires a lot of handwork inside there's boning and crinoline and all types of things to get this shape and it's not like a million people are gonna have you know maybe the courage to wear this shoulder and this color so I think what we do is um you know it's not for everyone and that's okay but that also means that you know we're not catering to the mass so we're not contributing to waste on a mass level either which is fine for me yeah

43:31Bella Freud:Yeah. No, there's so much criticism of either fast fashion or expensive fashion, but then expensive fashion means someone is well paid for it and the fabrics made by people who are paid, so obviously it's less accessible, but even now in big luxury brands, as you know, to have 50 pieces of a jacket isn't necessarily a small amount. It's really hard to find people to make the things, especially when they're very beautifully and exquisitely made like your things. And to be able to afford them yourself, let alone sell them. I mean, it's amazing that you're on that journey and and so successfully and um is there a public figure that you'd like to

44:32Hannah Rose Dalton:dress i love oprah i mean oprah i'm obsessed with oprah and i'm obsessed with um like her spiritual

44:43Steven Raj:like yeah soul sundays or whatever she calls soulful sundays i think but uh because i grew

44:50Hannah Rose Dalton:up with Oprah my mom would watch Oprah after school I'd come home and she had Oprah on and you know Oprah was like at the time talking you know to her talk show she was talking to people who had AIDS and you know informing you know these everyday women and everyday men what you know people with AIDS what they're going through and she was always trying to um deconstruct the stigma around certain taboo subjects. And obviously there was, you know, sort of, you know, she's a woman of color who, you know, at that time frame was really, you know, sort of like, you know, the most powerful person in the world or one of the most powerful people.

45:31Hannah Rose Dalton:So culturally it was so impactful for me. So definitely dressing someone like Oprah in like a power suit. What would you make? Oprah in a metafical power suit would be like a dream come true I think that I think the public figures that we're attracted to are ones who align with the same values as us I think we've been getting a lot of requests from different people to dress them or etc but I think for us it's always we ask ourselves are these people um sharing the same values as us are they standing up for the things that we're standing up for because you when you're in a public arena, you know, you're, you have a platform.

46:13Hannah Rose Dalton:Well, whatever you do, whether it's promoting, you know, anything, whatever you're promoting, it's, there's a consequence to it. So for us, we're very mindful of that, especially at the beginning of our journey as a, as a brand, as, as a, as fashion designers in Paris. And for us, we're very mindful of, of who we're aligning with. Because I think, you know, the world that we live in today, it's things are so divisive and things are so sort of dystopian. But I think the light in the tunnel is, you know, expression. I think it's art. I think it's beauty. So for us, it's like, you know, aligning ourselves with people that are in that same wave is what we're always towards.

47:02Hannah Rose Dalton:I don't know for you.

47:03Steven Raj:I mean the whole our whole relationship with Gaga has been so magical because watching her as it's growing up was I mean going back to one of your first questions maybe also her seeing her how she was able to express herself on the main stage and you know as a woman just kind of be so powerful in what she wears was so inspiring and so to be able to dress her and just I guess a couple days ago doing the Grammy look for her was she looked amazing that with black feathers dress wasn't it so beautiful it was so it's so nice and uh you know she stands up for our people you know like I feel like if she was at a restaurant and you know in the corner of her eyes she saw somebody being mistreated or something like I feel like she would even you know get up and say something yeah so as Stephen was saying dressing people that kind of have our communities back is really important and she's just been so nice to us also so it's been really wonderful to work with her how long does it take to make a dress like the one she wore well I mean you want the full tea her styling team Nick and Perry are very very nice but I think we only found out that we were

48:24Hannah Rose Dalton:confirmed for that how many days like a week yeah I think we had like nine days to make it yeah but then it had to be shipped to LA so we had to actually have somebody flew from Paris to to bring it to bring it to her so we had to actually have the dress done in two parts to fit into two suitcases and but um but but I mean luckily we you know we've been working with Gaga for the past year with her concerts we have all her measurements and we actually have you know it was actually super easy and you know everybody we sort of dropped everything we were doing yeah and we all hands on deck all hands on deck all the all the the the people that work with us in Paris so it was it was definitely a labor of love but definitely you know couture look in our shows like you know that you know I usually design the the collection so I usually sketch everything out um almost like six months before or eight months for the for the past two collections so um the and and well when when I sketch basically that's what you see on the runway we we tried to stay as close to the sketch as possible and so those looks can can definitely take a long time to create because it's it's a lot of handwork I mean it's real couture and and that's the beauty of being in Paris and that's where we moved from Montreal to Paris because versus also coming to London or, you know, the craftman's and the expertise and the petit mains.

50:02Hannah Rose Dalton:They're so passionate. It's passion. It's the love of details, the love of creating these, whether it's like trimmings or the plumerie or everything. It's just so beautiful. And to be honest, that's our favorite part of our job is working with those craft people and creating with them. So it's actually very interesting to see when you have a little bit of time to create something, but you're so in love with it, how much you can do. So it's super cool.

50:41Bella Freud:I remember going to one of those plumeries near the Pompidou Center in that area and just going and being completely sort of spellbound by all these things they have. And how many looks do you have for each show?

50:58Steven Raj:The show coming up in March, I think we'll have probably 55 to 60 looks. So it keeps getting bigger and bigger.

51:09Hannah Rose Dalton:For the last 10 years, everything in American politics has basically revolved around one man. And as a political journalist who came of age during Donald Trump's rise in 2016, I've had a front row seat. I am officially running for president of the United States. It's going to be only America first. America first.

51:33Bella Freud:Thousands of supporters of President Trump stormed the U.S. Capitol building.

51:39Steven Raj:But is it possible to talk about politics without talking about Donald Trump?

51:44Hannah Rose Dalton:That's the question I'm going to ask in our new show from Vox.

51:47Steven Raj:The idea of like a post-Trump or not exactly Trump-focused show can exist because he's not really driving any agenda items. It really does feel like so reactive.

51:54Hannah Rose Dalton:You know, I think this Iran thing is also going to cause a big split in the GOP. So far it doesn't among like people who say they're MAGA voters are still with Trump. But like for the first time, you see on a major issue, open opposition from the start of this war. I'm Estet Herndon and welcome to America Actually.

52:13Bella Freud:Because you're also part of the Rick Owens family, which I secretly feel I'm also a part of. And you met him when he invited you for dinner in his place in Paris for Halloween. And you said his home is really beautiful. And what's your home like? And I wondered how your domestic life is influenced by your aesthetic.

52:40Steven Raj:I mean, to be completely honest, at the moment, we live on top of a pizza shop in Paris, in a very busy, busy area. And it's nothing glamorous. It does not look like Mathieu Fécal at all. It's the same apartment we've lived in since we moved to Paris in 2022. and it's fully furnished so that means that it's not our furniture at all and yeah it's kind of like I don't know it's some sort of torture at home sometimes because it just you know there's a bright yellow velvet couch in the living room which is like the furthest thing possible from

53:18Hannah Rose Dalton:anything that we would choose on our own um so it's the opposite yeah but I think I think what But there's a charming aspect to it because at the same time, I think a big part of our work, I think a big part of our life also is that we, I think we grew up in so much suppression and we grew up with so many obstacles of being ourselves that in some ways I can say that even our home is that. You know what I mean? In some ways, like an obstacle. so it's like having something super normal sort of devoid of our personality enables us to maybe you know go bolder in what we look like so you know I sketch everything on that same couch so it's in some ways I actually think it contributes to the expression because maybe if we were in like a super in a home that reflected everything that we looked like maybe it actually would just mirror that and it wouldn't contribute to something new whereas like we're always like because you have a lot of windows and we see everybody outside because also the pizza shop is like super busy so there's always a lineup and you see all these different types of people's tourists a lot of tourists so you see all the tourists and like you know what they're wearing with the families and you know it's it's the environments that we grew up in that we don't live with anymore but in some ways maybe there's an attraction to that maybe there's Maybe there's a fetish also to being so in juxtaposition to something that doesn't reflect what we look like, which is part of it, I think.

55:04Hannah Rose Dalton:I really do think it's part of it. I think it's in our nature to have to jump over a fence. And maybe our home right now is the fence. But maybe in the future, hopefully we have the resources to, you know, that's why we love Rick and Michelle so much. Because, you know, they always sort of like made it work, whatever they had. And they sort of, their personality, their aesthetic just bleeds out in everything they touch. And I love that about them. And I think that's definitely something we aspire to be and experiencing their home, which is so curated and so abstract, but at the same time so homey, is something that's so beautiful.

55:54Hannah Rose Dalton:But I think, if anything, the thing that really stands out the most in our home is the clothes, because we have clothes everywhere. So the clothes is sort of like the art objects that just like exist. And I think our cat, Cunty, our Sphinx cat, Cunty, she definitely, that looks like us. So she's literally our third member. She's bald and, you know, hairless and probably the same, almost a little lighter shade than pink than Hannah's tailored jacket right now. But it's definitely, yeah, our little family. I mean, to be honest, we love being normal also. There's a part of us that really, you know, we're just a normal straight couple that's with their cat watching TV.

56:41Hannah Rose Dalton:So, yeah.

56:43Bella Freud:Yeah. Also, I think that interior thing takes time. And I certainly remember getting my first flat that was mine a long time ago. And I didn't change anything. There was carpet up the side of the bath and all these things that were considered really naff and everything. And I was so thrilled to have a place that that was enough. And it took 20 years more to, you know, get the curtain I like, you know. So it just, there's something about what you described, the lack of something that makes you want to fulfill it somewhere else. And like all these people, like there's a part of South London called Bromley where lots of very creative people come from, like David Bowie and Hanif Qureshi, the writer, and Susie Cave.

57:46Bella Freud:And there's a whole group called the Bromley Contingent, and it's the most suburban place. And it's kind of spawned these generations of extremely creative people. And like Lee Barry, who grew up in some suburb, I think it was called Sunshine or something like that, somewhere near Melbourne. And in fact, Hannah, when you were talking about being off duty in a sort of running suit type of thing, I find it there's something really glamorous about seeing highly, you know, people with really developed a developed look that's a real thing and something of extreme beauty off duty. because there's a whole other kind of conflict going on.

58:43Bella Freud:And I remember when I used to go and sit for my father when he was painting Lee Bowery, and he would have an off-duty look. But it was just as kind of mesmerizing. He'd wear this kind of curly wig, and then he had the kind of dimples in his cheeks from where he used to put the mouth, where he'd plug it in there and a tracksuit. But there was nothing anonymous about him. And there's this thing to do with how to be naked and how to be dressed. But I find even if my pajamas are too anonymous, I cannot wear them because I'm quite low-key in my style, but it has to be representative. Otherwise, it feels like annihilation, really, on some weird spiritual level.

59:44Bella Freud:I feel the same.

59:46Steven Raj:Because even, you know, like when I'm saying, oh, it's like a relaxed version, you know, it's still like very curated. You know, like it's always head to toe white. Really? Because maybe actually now I'm thinking about it, But maybe because I don't have my white face, but then I put the white on the, you know, the tracksuit or whatever. The gym clothes. Huh, isn't it funny? But yeah, it's still very like curated as you're saying. And there's still something quite, you know.

1:00:14Hannah Rose Dalton:You look beautiful. You look so beautiful. I think you're selling yourself short. Okay, sorry. That's a good running look. You still look super alien-esque. skin um I think it if anything it just shows another side of you that is that is you know beautiful to see you also explore then you know because because you're you seem really comfortable in that look too so I mean I think that at least for for me I think freedom is true defiance and I think that that's really that's a big part of freedom is you sort of have to defy something to achieve it or to experience it and there has to be something that is sort of in your way to get the freedom yeah if that makes any sense total sense yeah and do you um now you live in paris do you go to visit the louvre do you is there any art that you like to go and look at in particular

1:01:16Steven Raj:when you do you go to the Louvre much um honestly we don't Stephen loves to walk to the Eiffel Tower and I think walking is like such a big part of it yeah the nature like the parks we always love

1:01:35Hannah Rose Dalton:to do that yeah the architecture in Paris I mean that's we just you know we'll just go to those areas and to the monuments and immediately get inspired the Seine is you know the water and I think we're we're also constantly trying to create art for ourselves and through our own process and we're surrounded by so many um references a lot of times but for us at least it's it's sort of sort of nice to not be in those environments to get inspired I find it comes out more in like blank spaces yeah so we we often do that but definitely you know we you know I mean Paris has so so much art everywhere and it's so beautiful and uh seeing the people we people watch a lot yeah so you know we'll we'll we'll hang out in the corner somewhere and just watch people and and create stories around them and analyze and and all of that but um a lot of books I mean we have a lot of books at home yeah and um a lot of photography books yeah like Pierre uh Pierre Moulinier, Irvin Penn, like those are, I mean, Francis Bacon.

1:02:59Yeah.

1:03:00Hannah Rose Dalton:So there's, there's just so, so much. And Lee Bowery, I mean, we saw the Lee Bowery exhibition that happened in London.

1:03:07Bella Freud:Yeah, that was great.

1:03:08Hannah Rose Dalton:So beautiful. I mean, you know, Lee is, is, is a big inspiration for us. I'll never forget seeing, I think it was like the Harrods, like video on YouTube.

1:03:18Bella Freud:God, yes.

1:03:18Hannah Rose Dalton:Where he's like, you know, in full look and, you know, because, you know, I think that we've coined is provoke society. So we've always been saying provoke society when we go outside because people look at us whether we like it or not. So we sort of provoke society is like an empowering way of just like embracing the fact that people are looking at you. So sort of like give them something to think about through looking at us. At least we're like, we feel like we're sort of promoting critical thinking to our look.

1:03:52Bella Freud:Yeah.

1:03:52Hannah Rose Dalton:So Lee Bari, that's a big part of that video. That video of him in full look, you know, in all the things that he made. And, you know, just twirling around this luxury department store. During the day. During the day with the families in the luxury space. It's like ultimate freedom, ultimate defiance and a huge inspiration for us. I think that video, single-handedly, is a major inspiration for us and for so many people in our community that also dresses up and serves looks and, you know, is doing this. It's a big, big, Lee is like God.

1:04:30Bella Freud:Yeah. He was a bit like God. He was so full of confidence and sort of authority without, you know, you just believed in everything that he did. And it was so brilliant and funny as well. And interesting actually because, you know, I was talking about being naked and my dad painted him naked. And, you know, it's not like he looks like somebody without himself, his essence. He looks just as kind of impressive. And I can't remember if he shaved his eyebrows because when you've been talking about that, it's the first thing that drastically alters how people look at you, I think. And unless I go back and find a picture of Lee, did he shave his eyebrows?

1:05:34Hannah Rose Dalton:I think I think he did I mean the nickname photos that we love also I think I think he did yeah I think that shaving the eyebrows at least for me when I did it I remember I just did it randomly at home coming back from fashion school one day and I just didn't and my mom came in from work and she was like, you've gone mad. Are you okay? What happened? Are you going through like a psychosis? Like what's going on? Why would you do that? And then I called Hannah and then Hannah was like, what's happening? Are you okay? I thought you went mad too. And then like fast forward to like two months later, Hannah shaved hers.

1:06:19Hannah Rose Dalton:And I think there's something about eyebrows that frames the face in the most human way. And when you take that away, you lose that frame from a picture and you just get the canvas. And that's how we see our faces. It's just like a blank canvas. So the eyeshadow can extend beyond the eyebrow. There's no limits. And hair is the same thing. You know, Divine is the same thing where she would like, you know, paint the eye wing so far back that it wouldn't even go beyond the ears. And that extension, that distortion of the human body is something that intrigues us so much. And I think it all taps back to, at least for me, like growing up feeling like an alien and resonating so much with aliens.

1:07:11Hannah Rose Dalton:I used to be so obsessed with them because I felt like I didn't belong and I felt like I didn't belong in my environment. And I was dreaming and fantasizing about all these things that look so different than reality. But the more we sort of went into our alien look, the more we realize actually how human it is to feel that way. And that's why our first collection was titled The Other. because, and we had all of our friends and family, most of them, they're walking the show in the finale looks. And it was sort of to celebrate the utterness and that feeling of not really belonging. But I think it's a big part of the human experience.

1:07:53Hannah Rose Dalton:I think everybody sort of feels that way in some way or another. You can go to a different country, like when we go to Tokyo or Japan, and we can feel like the other also. And same as if someone who's Japanese comes to Paris. So it's a feeling, I think, that we all resonate with. And, you know, it's, if anything, we're all searching for belonging.

1:08:15Bella Freud:Yeah. And you're both so elegant and beautiful and have these squizet looking bodies. And how do you take care of yourself? Do you have a routine for your...

1:08:30Steven Raj:My routine is lots of cakes. I love sugar. I'm addicted to anything with like cream or custard in it um I love pasta like I really I I don't take care of myself internally which has actually been on my list of things to start doing apart from the walking but no but Stephen is all up in it yeah I love working out and um I love

1:08:53Hannah Rose Dalton:running and um it's also just you know it's a form of discipline that I really enjoy and need also So even before doing the fitting or work, like I have to go to the gym or I have to work out, I have to do something physically because it's just a way to release also the tension. I mean, I work heavily with my therapist and we really realized that, you know, especially when you go through an extensive amount of bullying and abuse that I went through growing up, like you sort of internalize all the frustrations and the brutality of it. you sort of like digest it but doesn't actually leave your body it sort of like stays in it yeah yeah so you need something whether it's like it could be working out it could be you know it could be anything really but you need something to sort of release the violence and release the the pain and the aggression so for me it's been yeah it's been it's been definitely like healing to to get into that but um eating is also the same thing I mean I grew up you know my mom she was like a compulsive eater so emotionally eating and so that's a big part of it like everybody in my family had like diabetes and it was like a whole thing so for me I'm I sort of in some ways have to be self-conscious of all of that to like be as healthy as I can but um but yeah I mean it doesn't help having hannah who's just eating whatever she wants but um but if anything it's nice because sometimes i could take it too seriously yeah and it's nice to just like yeah

1:10:36Bella Freud:just enjoy yeah i know i know exactly what you mean i can get caught up with too much self-discipline and forget that nothing's going to happen if I waver, but I can get too sidetracked by these rules for myself. And they then stop being helpful to see the horizon, you know, and to break out and everything. And anyway, thank you, Hannah and Stephen, so much for being on Fashion Neurosis. It's so lovely to see you there in these incredible clothes and to listen to you and how you make clothes be so inviting. And I think a lot of people can be afraid of extreme beauty and how it's manifested in any kind of different way.

1:11:41Bella Freud:and you just have such wonderful personalities and it's really nice to have you in the world. Aw, thanks Bella for asking us.

1:11:54Steven Raj:Thank you for your nice questions.