FKA twigs

27:38FKA twigs:I could always be really presentable. And it just installed this quite adult way of being in me, I think, when I was very young. And so that's carried on into my adult life. Although I'm definitely a bit looser with it now. I like to turn up and I like to do a really good job um I I always with no matter what it is like if I'm gonna reorganize my sock drawer like it's gonna be the most organized so and if when I turn up on a job I mean I'll probably be like 20 minutes late but when I get there it's game on yeah you know like when when I get there it's once I'm on set once I'm in the recording studio once I'm in the rehearsal studio like I lock in and it's my happy place and I like to be reliable for people in that way it's kind of why it's weird that even though like I'm such a free spirit as an artist I actually like like working with brands like when when they trust me I like working with brands because there's this kind of very specific job that you're both there to do um and it's kind of fun and it's a challenge actually like I'm trying to think recently I did the the gentle monster campaign and that was really fun because it was very ambitious and it was a lot of It was also the end of the year when we shot it.

29:17FKA twigs:So obviously everyone's like a little bit more like run down, but it was really fun doing pole dancing and dancing and the stills and everything in one day. It was like such an ambitious day, but we did it. And I love that feeling of achieving something very specific. Same with my tour. you know my tour's very like over ambitious as well and I just heard I think like five weeks rehearsal time something like that and and I love setting everything out in my head and knowing all the rehearsals I need and how much I have to train and what I need to do to get there how many hours sleep I need on that day or training how many weeks do I need to learn that one trick which I really want to like do on the pole um I like setting myself those goals and achieving it so yeah in terms of being reliable it's like that self-contracting system you know like if I can trust myself then other people can trust me like if I say I'm going to turn up and do something then then I do do it yeah um because it gives me confidence in myself like when I when When I turn up for other people, when I turn up for myself, it means I can trust myself.

30:38And if I trust myself, then I don't have self-doubt. And if I don't have self-doubt, then I can be a better friend, a better artist, a better daughter, you know, all those things. So it's kind of a contract in a way.

30:56FKA twigs:There's so much.

30:58Bella Freud:I'm rambling. No, not at all. It's interesting that you can have that knowledge about yourself at such a young age. And do you think that was instilled and that partly came from this good value system that you learned from your stepfather and the fact that you were encouraged and rewarded for your reliability rather than punished for any deviation?

31:31FKA twigs:Trying to think. It's like,

31:38I know that being a woman and being a woman of color

31:46FKA twigs:and being good at something is not enough. Like, I know that and I accept it. I'm not saying it's right, but I accept it that in this year that I am born and in this era of the world that I am born, I know that I have to be more than excellent to be invited to the table and to stay at the table and to be recognized. I know that I'm not afforded the same graces as other people that look differently to me or have different family backgrounds that are maybe more connected or affluent financially. so it's just you know there's no choice um it's something that me and my hair stylist louis always say like sometimes we have the craziest shoot the next day that we have this ambition to do this crazy hair and neither one of us are going to sleep but we just look at each and we just say there's no choice because we will do it.

32:58FKA twigs:There's no choice. So that's kind of how I see it. It's taken me two, three, four, five times longer in my career to get the footing or the, you know, I guess like the recognition, I guess, in a way for what I've contributed to my industry um and I'm not bitter about that like I'm at peace with it because I knew that I would have to work this hard to get there and there's no choice so what am I going to do not do it not turn up yeah moan about it you know like I'm not I'm not saying that there haven't been times where I felt disheartened because there have been but for the most part I'm just really grateful to be an artist and to create and to have a vision I'm just grateful to even have the ideas yeah yeah so I just want to do everything really

34:10Bella Freud:well well you do and and you said about your name fk twigs that you wanted a selection of letters that sounded almost masculine and um it doesn't stand for anything you um it's just a series of capital letters and i wondered did you want the masculine element to sort of act like reputation like the ancient Greeks when you were talking about, you know, having this wanting to be, have your feminine self, but have this kind of slightly soldiery kind of demeanour as well?

34:55FKA twigs:I don't really know how much I thought about it. It was a very quick decision. I think it was like FK1 or F I don't know I had like a different selection of letters at some point um but I like that it's tough yeah you know I like that because I think yeah I'm quite like I said gentle in my demeanor but I'm actually really tough so I think maybe it's like just like a little um like warning yeah yeah it's like a warning because just for other people more than me you know just to make sure that you know I'm not like underestimated yeah for them maybe more than myself um that I am tough like I'm very petite in real life and and I can be quite quiet and I'm very gentle but there's like a

36:09FKA twigs:I don't know there's like a spear to me yeah yeah um and and so it just feels I mean sometimes I think it's such like a silly name actually but um it is me you know sometimes it's funny you kind of decide these things in your early 20s and then like that's you but actually you know across the whole span of like almost two decades it definitely makes sense when you look at when you look at the name of the with the work it makes sense but I don't think if I was called like Talia it would really tell the same story no it's true

36:46Bella Freud:it's got angles to it yeah it needs some angles yeah Support for the show comes from Amazon. There are the things you can plan for. A first birthday party, a movie marathon, a renter-friendly bathroom reno. And then there are the things you can never plan for. A surprise rainstorm, a Blu-ray player calling it quits, stick-on tiles that looked way better on the package. For all things planned and unplanned, Amazon has you covered. You'll find low prices on everyday essentials and last-minute lifesavers. Shop Amazon and save on essentials. Save the everyday. I'm Scott Galloway. And I'm Ed Elson.

37:31Bella Freud:And we're bringing the Profiting Markets Tour to Chicago. That's right, the city with big shoulders, I think. Chi-town? Is that what they call it, the city with big shoulders? Anyways, I call Chicago the old navy of cities. I think it's 80 % of New York for 50 % of the price. I went there with my son. You probably don't love that.

37:51Bella Freud:I went there with my son and I had literally, I had the best, we had the best weekend. We went to this amazing steakhouse. We went to, we hit, we went to a batting cage. We did a bike tour. We had the best time.

38:03FKA twigs:What can they expect from us in Chicago? We'll have predictions. We'll have hot takes. We'll have some of Scott's signature rants live and in person. And you will have the chance to ask a question as well. Come to the Vic on Monday, June 1st. You can get your tickets at ProfitMarketstour.com.

38:20Bella Freud:That's ProfitMarketstour.com. Because we first met, I think, when we went to see Marina Abramovich's performance at the South Bank when she did the takeover. And it was the first time I'd met you in real life. And I remember being struck by how self-contained you were. and you've described yourself as being deeply reserved rather than shy and I wondered what the distinction is for you between those two things

39:02FKA twigs:maybe shy has more doubt yeah maybe shy there's like a fear that one can't do something whereas maybe reserved is knowing that you can do that thing but knowing that you just need to choose when

39:25Bella Freud:yeah that's really good I really know that feeling and I suppose being reserved is about kind of regulating your energy as well like when you're going to allow it out yeah and you said also um i don't want to dance i want to do extreme things with my body and what what's the difference i mean okay so an example would be on this tour i've had this

40:03FKA twigs:crazy thing I got it about two weeks before I went on tour it's called plantar fasciitis so basically like the bottom of my feet became so tight they went into a spasm that I couldn't point my feet so obviously dance is all about lines yeah um and then at the end of the tour I do this pole dance which is more like balletic like I don't have like the big pleaser um heels on it's bare feet and I'm just in nude underwear and it's supposed to be this beautiful more balletic contemporary number on the pole where like the lines are really good and I've always as a dancer like prided myself in my lines like that's something that that I feel very confident in um and I got this plantar fascia itis and I've not been able to point my feet for two months because every time I point my feet I get the most insane cramp all the way up my legs and I have it in both feet so the pole dance at the end when I was trying to I couldn't even go and releve and the thing is it's like dancers will understand I don't have naturally like a really high arch or a good feet I really I really have to if I really point my feet then it's like will be in the line but if I'm not concentrating on it I will have biscuits so I've I have to really concentrate yeah it's like like a dancer's term for like if you can't point your feet then you have like biscuits at the end of your you know like I don't know like you have like a biscuit at the end so instead of it being like a line like this is like we'll just be like um and so I've always had to really like really concentrate on pointing my feet the whole of my life because I just don't naturally have that flexibility um and so I'm doing this pole routine and I can't point my feet and I can barely straighten my legs but the difference between dancing and doing extreme things with a body is that when I don't look at it as dance it doesn't really matter that I can't point my feet because I can splay my toes and and I can still be very flexible and and overextend my split and being an open like an over split but but my toes can be splayed and my ankles can be flexed and it kind of maybe even makes it better yeah and I think for me that's been like the switch of not looking at things as dance so much like just looking at things as like a an extreme thing with my body and and that can be like an emotional extreme as well it can be expressing an extreme emotion or it can be expressing extreme tiredness sometimes when I go on the pole I like I'm so tired at the end of the show and especially at the beginning sometimes it would take me a couple of goes to get into a move because my body's tired and it won't like do that thing but then there's this feeling that that's a part of the show that to miss a move and have to try a couple of times again especially in cellophane is it becomes a part of the show so there's then so much strength in being in front of 10 000 people and falling out of something and having to do it again and it's just this like focus of because that's life you know you fall out of a dance move you do it again you fall out of a dance move you do it again um so that's what i mean by doing extreme things in my body and that's why i'm not really scared about getting older as well because you know i'll just figure it out i don't have to be doing like insane like flexibility things forever you know there's there's lots of ways of moving for when one gets older like in martial arts there's you can do wuchu with like in a fire way with everything's like sharp you can do it like water you can do there's lots of different forms of martial arts for different ages you can do tai chi you see like older people doing like tai chi but it's actually like so powerful the muscles are still so tensed still working so hard but it's maybe you know when you're at a different stage in your life emotionally physically like in your age

44:53Bella Freud:yeah it's fascinating it's it's so um encouraging that the idea of that um and because you said um i've spent my whole life in fight or flight and i read that you'd been exploring and polyvagal somatic theory and has this changed what risk looks like to you is it more of an ecstatic thing rather than a warrior stance? I think I've just had to learn to work with my body a bit.

45:34FKA twigs:Because like I said, my body will kind of do anything. So I've just had to work with it and honour it. and make sure that I do things that calm it down from like a nervous system point of view. I'm not talking like a warm down or give it a stretch because really that's still trauma. Even like stretching at the end of a session is still like tearing muscles. So I'm more aware of what do I need to do to sometimes calm my vessel down in a way that's not useful in any way to moving or performance or artistic expression um so yeah i can at the beginning of usexur I developed a 11 step movement method called the 11 and um it's movements that I've learned like that I've not like made it up from scratch I've just sort of collated a group of movements that can go together for different aspects of one's life and then those things also work with the polyvagal nerve and the nervous system to like calm you down um especially i think for people that find it hard to meditate it's really useful useful as well because it's like a physical meditation and also it's a self-contracting system so So, okay, so say for example, this is the one I always use.

47:07FKA twigs:It's called croning. So if you have like a screen addiction, like technology addiction. Okay. So if I was sitting here with you now having this nice conversation slash therapy, and then I was like, I really actually just want to go on my phone. This is lovely, but I really just want to check my phone. then like there's this cue that I could do which is just like rubbing my hand like this and it just reminds me that actually I don't want to look at my phone I just want to sit here and talk to you because it's nice and then while I'm doing this you have to think of three things that are in the room so you've got really nice candle burning and also your sofa's really smushy on my back like it's almost like a memory foam so I feel really held on my back and then the air is really still so I'm thinking of these three things and it's like a little cue to myself and all of a sudden I'm back in my body and I'm not craving the external stimulation of scrolling or whatever so that's one but then that you can do when you're out but then the other one you can do which is like the polyvagal like nervous system calming it's for 11 minutes you can do that movement over the whole of your body and you can do it to like a song that you like or I love doing it over like techno and you basically rub you give yourself like a body wash over the whole of your body and you touch every part of you like even things that you barely touch like you know I can't remember the last time I really touched like the back of my knee or like when was the last time I like touched my armpit or when was the last time I touched behind my ear and you do that for 11 minutes you just like check in with yourself and and you know touch between your toes and in between your fingers and it's like really nice because you just don't ever like touch these places um and you can do it really hard if you sometimes i want it like really like and then sometimes i want it really really soft you know just like a caress and it's really nice so that's like one of the 11 and it's called croning Croning

49:22Bella Freud:Croning yeah And is that the word that you invented?

49:25FKA twigs:Yeah I invented Croning because it's like Cronenberg Because all of his movies include the really fleshy meld with technology Like it's always like bodies melding with technology And that's kind of what we're doing with our phones Yeah So I called it Croning from Cronenberg Oh that's great

49:52that's so good it's um it's amazing how powerful that because when you were describing it i could feel my body following it and i love anything to what i love about this somatic experience

50:08Bella Freud:therapy that i'm also doing and that it makes you think with your body and it's not such a pressure on your mind and suddenly there's all these other things that come to life and to light and and there's other places to think from i i find that really stimulating i was fascinated by your interest in mary magdalene as well and how history has reduced her to you know a kind of prostitute like figure and um I remember going to see Jesus Christ Superstar when I was 12 and it was one of the few good things my stepfather who wasn't such a positive influence on me but he took us to see Jesus Christ Superstar in London We lived in the country.

51:05Bella Freud:And she was the person that really stood out to me and seemed so reasonable and credible. And she had this great song. And I wondered what drew you, what appealed to you about her?

51:20FKA twigs:I mean, so many things, actually. I think, obviously, like, Jesus is fab, but also Mary Magdalene was really fab as well. And I think often what she did isn't really spoken about enough. There are many scriptures and there's a lot of evidence that shows that she actually funded a lot of Jesus' missions. She also, in some writings, was our first, I guess, idea of a doctor. in the sense that my understanding is back in those days, like you wouldn't really have one person that you went to for everything. She was a herbalist and she used herbs and fragrances and oils and seeds and foods to heal people.

52:17FKA twigs:So along with Jesus, she was actually treating people as well with these herbs and these oils. um there's the story that when jesus died she went to his feet and poured spikenard which was the most expensive oil at the time all over his feet and this is you have to imagine this is like in biblical biblical times so this oil is the equivalent of billions and billions of pounds or dollars and everyone said you're mad because she's pouring this expensive and rare oil over his feet and they said you're wasting it you're mad and so she took down her hair and she wiped off the excess of of the oil with her hair on the ground so it like soaked up into her hair with all of the dirt and jesus's blood that's like a protest for people saying she's wasting it so she's mad so she's like fine i won't waste it she mops it up with her hair um so things like that that's kind of I relate to to that feeling and and I relate to um you know especially in the beginning of my career dating men that had a lot more commercial fame than me and and everything I did was quite like shrouded by that and it was very difficult because I was doing some like really special things and special work and special art and and um it was kind of swallowed by the monster that is sort of tabloid culture and yeah and these things this is actually like almost like pre-social media a little bit quite old but yeah like it was a very like specific time and um yeah it's then learning about her and thinking oh this is like an amazing woman one of many by the way i'm also not saying in any way that i'm as great as mary magdalene but i just i just saw some parallels yeah and i found it comforting that with time her story came out and i guess that's like that patience and that being able to be reserved and knowing that with time everything kind of works itself out because i think that even in recent times there's just a lot more understanding of who she was and I guess the reality is as well that I mean some in some scriptures it says that her and Jesus were actually lovers and a couple and so when he died they had to say that she was a sex worker because then it would basically if if she was to have children then it would make them illegitimate because it's like in everyone's best interest that there aren't descendants of Christ, you know, because that would be confusing for a lot of people.

55:06FKA twigs:But, you know, I don't know. Like maybe there could have been, but then there weren't because their rights would have been taken away from them because they said that her mother was a prostitute. So, yeah, it's interesting. I just, I also quite like the idea of the virgin in the hall. um i like really like holy beautiful things but i think i like the kind of underbelly yeah as well you know like my um magdalene with this duality like it was holy and it had this operatic beauty and this rawness but and that's why I really started to dive into pole dancing and and embracing that culture as well because because as women we we are both we are the virgin in the hall yeah that's when we're the most powerful I always talk about this I am the virgin and I'm the hall together and a lot of men can't accept that actually they find it very difficult well I think even in even those stories

56:16Bella Freud:and seeing it in that musical, which was actually one of the most brilliant things I've ever seen. But the person who was relatable was her, Magdalene, because being, you know, everyone's so one-dimensional, really. The other characters, Pilotsy, I mean, everyone had a bit more nuance in that play, but I always wondered why she seemed like the one who was relatable. Rather than Virgin Mary just seemed one-dimensional, Jesus in some ways as well, because he was just good, you know. And she seemed to have more understanding, and so she was very attractive as a person. And yeah, and because when with with the pole dancing, I was thinking how you seem able to embrace and bring into your artistry these things that are attributed to, you know, like pole dancing is associated more with dancing in a strip club or something.

57:29Bella Freud:But, and you said you wanted to learn it because you wanted to learn how to fly. And it's so poetic and beautiful how you use it, especially in the video of cellophane. It's incredible. And it seems somehow both wireistic and very private. and I wondered how you nurture that balance of those things in your, how you show yourself.

58:03FKA twigs:Yeah, well, I think for me, you know, learning to pole dance, it was also about reclaiming a narrative as a woman as well.

58:21And I know how to create an allure with it and I know how to seduce with it.

58:28FKA twigs:But I also know how to intimidate people with it. And I know how to make other people feel uncomfortable with it as well. And so that's been very empowering and it's been important for me as a woman to reclaim that narrative in my life's journey. I don't know I guess I'm very like respectful to to the language of of where pole dancing came from and I like being able to add my story to that narrative as well and it's been very healing and it's amazing to see so many women now pole dancing and and getting in touch with their bodies in that way i love pole dancing as well because the pole becomes your partner yeah and like unlike other partners like that pole will never let you down as long as it's screwed into the ceiling properly you know like that pole's always going to be there for you it's always going to hold you like when you're hanging on to it it's never going to drop you you know so there's that trust there again pole dancing installs a lot of trust in me because i have to be very present uh because you can fall off and hurt yourself so yeah so it allows me to be present in my relationship with something which which i like and then becomes a nice microcosm for the

59:51Bella Freud:rest of my life yeah it's really hard i did some lessons once in um in la and it's an amazing um feet to be able to do it i had no idea how hard and how expert it is and to hold on to that pole and leave your hands free and the way you do it is like um it looks like real freedom it's incredibly beautiful yeah it is the best feeling it's really fun because you were you were talking about um wushu as well and the chinese martial arts and that you've also included in some of your work and um i i remember i used to go to the cinema on sunday night sometimes in leicester square at midnight this was back in the end of the 70s with my best friend and we would watch They would show martial arts films all night long, no subtitles.

1:00:57Bella Freud:And most of the audience were the Chinese community. And it was amazing, the atmosphere. It was so, everyone was talking and laughing and eating. And these films were absolutely incredible. And I read that you're working on a screenplay about the relationship between martial arts and the black community.

1:01:24FKA twigs:Yeah, I mean, you can see like from the 70s, really, there was a really big explosion of martial arts films and including a lot of amazing black lead characters.

1:01:37Bella Freud:Yeah.

1:01:38FKA twigs:And yeah, it's really beautiful the way these two very different cultures came together to create like a new genre, which is my favorite thing when things like that happen it's my favorite thing culturally so yeah I was working on I have a video called sad day yeah and um I love that video it is it's been a slow process and I've learned so much in this process of trying to shape something that's very delicate and very beautiful but actually I feel like this year a lot of good things have happened with it like small incremental moves but um is that the right word incremental yeah incremental moves with it but um it's often just about getting the right family around something yeah honestly like and that's what I mean about being reserved like it's not sometimes it's just good to wait because the right couple of people will come along and be the perfect final um ingredients in the potion and i think i don't want to say too much but i did have a meeting a couple months ago about it and i was like oh this person like if they on board like it's gonna all come together and and we're in talks so yeah it's exciting i need to practice although wushu is the one thing i feel like i don't get to practice as much now as i used to I can still cut some shapes, but I'm like aware of that skill that I need to work on it more.

1:03:12FKA twigs:Do you have a teacher?

1:03:13Bella Freud:Do they have sensei in Chinese martial arts, like in Japanese?

1:03:19FKA twigs:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, in LA, in the past I've worked with a teacher called Mr. Who or Master Who. and uh teak who is in the sad day video i was just in america training with him and then sam mack in the uk but sometimes it's hard because i'm just not in the same place for a while you know so that can be difficult to find the find the weeks because really it's like you have to do like a few classes every single week you know like it's like the hours add up to train three times a week for two hours in the morning and then if you do that for six weeks you're gonna get really good at it yeah

1:04:06Bella Freud:i suppose it's like you were saying about practice yeah and it's so it's so nuanced i uh it's totally mysterious it's brilliant though i uh i was just laughing in my head because i

1:04:23FKA twigs:do a bit of rushu on stage and there was this one show where we had changed the show slightly and and i have started dancing the whole show in heels now so i have these like big stilettos that i do like the whole show in and we did this a quick change and i go on and i do the next section of the show and we'd only practiced it in the show if that makes sense we've never done a rehearsal of it and then i suddenly realized with this new change in this new costume i was about to do my sword part in these stilettos and I'd never practiced it so usually I was doing it in trainers and then all of a sudden I was on stage in front of loads of people and I'm doing like martial arts in like a full heel um I think that was actually it was either vague I think it was either the Vegas show or even maybe Coachella I can't remember which one but I did it I got on with it but I just had this moment where I'm like holding the sword and I'm thinking how am I going

1:05:17Bella Freud:to do wushu and heels but we did it it must have looked amazing yeah probably a bit wobbly you've got this extraordinary drive that you've talked about and to drive to learn these new things and you seem also unplaceable and mysterious and also very direct and you said the most interesting part of me is what I do not what not who I am and is what you do who you are or a container for who you are?

1:05:53FKA twigs:I'm not sure really.

1:05:58FKA twigs:I don't really know. I guess time will tell. Yeah, I don't really know. I think I just mean that I'm not really a very good celebrity or public figure. you know I'm not very good at the uh like now because of social media there's sort of obviously the music and the music videos and all those things but then it's like sometimes as an artist you can be encouraged that your personality is like also then your brand yeah and some people are having a really really good at having a brand of their personality and that stands like as strong as their what they're making whereas I I just can't I don't really know how to slash don't want to slash don't have enough time to and can't be bothered to make my personality the brand you said something really interesting about how there's a thing that especially with girls that

1:07:07Bella Freud:you can have written all these amazing songs done all these extraordinary feats and people want to know what's the 10 things you have keep in your bag and it's it's as though somehow people won't understand or aspire to wanting to achieve all the feats and write the songs you do but they'll they can only relate to what's in the band bag and it seems very it's so it's weird that people think or I don't know who some conjures up these kind of daft kind of platforms the way you're supposed to meet the intelligence isn't on there when you're you're so clearly someone extremely intelligent that manifests in all these exciting ways that are real really aspirational and um I was I was struck by that anyway yeah I think it's okay not to be relatable yeah I think I've definitely tried to be relatable and

1:08:13FKA twigs:I've definitely done those things and probably will still continue to have to do those things sometimes but I'm not really very relatable and I'm kind of okay with that actually not kind of okay I am okay with that but I mean they're fun those things but not at the expense

1:08:32Bella Freud:of everything else you know yeah exactly and

1:08:38FKA twigs:yeah I just really love what I do I really love creating work it's not for everyone and and I have like an amazing like the best core community of fans that any artist could ever hope for and I love them so much and even just going on tours reinforced for me just how special everyone is that comes to my shows and I say every show like you are my superhero it's like you encourage me to do this I look out into the show and everyone is so cute and stylish and kind and vibey and everyone's dancing and it's filled with so many different types of people and that makes me so happy and and we understand each other and more people will continue to grow that community and we'll do bigger shows together and we'll you know for me and the people that listen to my music like every single accolade that they would hope for me to reach I will reach that um and it will be in our own way it won't be sticking to a formulaic album campaign or viral or interview or something like that.

1:09:55FKA twigs:It will be in our own way because the journey's not been linear. Even to create this tour, anyone that has seen it will understand it is such a physical feat and it's so ambitious. And I've fallen down two or three times trying to create this tour. really because um in what way fallen down oh my gosh like logistically financially practically in so many ways in so many ways i've fallen down to create this tour and the fact that it's on the road is half miracle and half testament to the dancers but also a lot of the people that I've met along the way to help me support what I do from a production point of view because because I'm so ambitious as an artist it's obviously the other artists are involved they're like yeah we want to stay late we want to work harder we want to do more dance styles we want to push ourselves as artists you know a lot of artists understand that but to get practical logistical production teams or management teams that are like we understand that we're not going to make millions and millions of dollars off this thing or pounds off this thing but it's worth it because the contribution to culture and the moment of having a show like body height or at coachella and what that does for the culture is equally as important as making 10 million pounds you know I think a lot of people behind the scenes you know music is still just a business and art is a business whereas for me it's my life and it's my lifestyle and it's my hopes and dreams and it's my childhood and I'm also carrying so many other incredible artists that I feel so responsible for in honoring their dreams and their craft and their hours spent training and things um but but finally now after a very long time I feel like I have the logistical team around me to make sure that we're safe as performers yeah to do what we want to do from like I said a practical point a financial point uh you know logistically you would not believe how much it takes to put on a show and one person doesn't do one thing like it's over for all of you so you know being able to do yeah being able to do this show is like it's um yeah it's a dream it's like one of the the best things I've ever been a part of in my

1:12:52Bella Freud:life really I mean it seems to be phenomenally successful I mean you sold out Coachella you sold out Madison Square Garden how do you how do you keep your body available to you for what you need when you're on tour?

1:13:11FKA twigs:I'm quite strict with myself. Strict about my warm-ups, my diet, listen to myself. And then I also go easy on myself as well.

1:13:22Bella Freud:Yeah.

1:13:22FKA twigs:Sometimes I go easy, like, you know, since I've been off, I've not done anything. Everything I see that I want to eat, I just eat it.

1:13:29Bella Freud:Yeah.

1:13:30FKA twigs:You know, I haven't wanted to do any exercise for a week, and I'm just letting my body do that until it says it wants to start again. So I think just listening to myself. Yeah.

1:13:46FKA twigs:And speaking a bit more kindly to myself as well, like manifesting with my words. Yeah. What kind of things do you say? It's not things that I say. I guess it's just quiet assumptions that I've made yeah you know it's not it's just almost kind of living like something's happened yeah or like it's about to happen

1:14:21Bella Freud:yeah I really identify with all that stuff and trying not to always be a spartan that was they were sort of my early role models when I was about nine and I thought yeah that's how I have to be you know done that now everything has to be about an endurance test and it doesn't always produce what you want at all so I think I like the sound of what you're doing it's great What stars I need? I'm Aries. What about you? Capricorn. Like Kate Moss. Yeah, and Sade.

1:15:03FKA twigs:Oh, really? Yeah, Michelle Obama. Oh, okay. And Jesus. Of course.

1:15:13Bella Freud:And I've seen pictures of you at Rick Owens' fashion shows and you wear his clothes, you're wearing his amazing boots today and I love Rick Irvin so much. And I wondered, can you, what is it that makes I find, what makes one feel so special when you're close to him?

1:15:36FKA twigs:Rick?

1:15:37Bella Freud:Mm. Um, I mean, I'm not particularly close to Rick, actually.

1:15:44FKA twigs:We've hung out a bit. Mm. and I really admire him a lot yeah especially not just the clothes which are obviously stunning and some of the best but also the lifestyle around it like the whole kind of unspoken philosophy around it yeah um I'm closer with Michelle yeah she's wonderful yeah actually but I think

1:16:15FKA twigs:you know the thing about i find with uh rick owen's clothes he said why do you feel so special when you're around it and i think because his clothes amplify what's special about you because they're so clean and so beautiful and and so refined that actually you can't hide behind a lot obviously i know there's like the big like silhouettes and the big statement pieces but I'm talking about like the more sort of, I mean, I don't even want to say, I mean, you could wear any of it all the time. It's not that some things you should wear more than others because it's like bigger or smaller, but the things I guess are more simple.

1:16:55It is very revealing for where you're at as a coat hanger for clothes.

1:17:05FKA twigs:Yeah. In terms of your personal style, because sometimes if I have a shaved head, eyebrows bleached, snatched skin, I'm feeling good in my body, and I put on a Rick Owens black T-shirt, it's alien and it's elevated and it's extraterrestrial and it's like really like, whoa, just in this perfectly cut black T-shirt. or if my coat hanger isn't like chiseled like refined then it's it's like just a really well cut beautiful black t-shirt does that make sense yeah yeah so it's kind of very revealing I would say to wear to the to your almost like your personal style before you even put on clothes which is an elevation or a challenge depending on like where you're at on that day which I like I enjoy that yeah I don't know if that makes any sense do I need to explain that better no I think it well how I was receiving it was almost like his clothes you know like they have

1:18:20Bella Freud:those horrible garments that change color when your temperature changes but there's something about his clothes that they show they seem like you described reveal part of you that maybe is reticent if you're in a different mode and I feel like his clothes do that and it's coming from him and I don't know Rick that well but I feel this enormous good kind of feeling towards him and I feel like he kind of generates that into his what he makes and how he lives his

1:19:02FKA twigs:life and his kind of family community yeah yeah because what he does is based around community and um some of the best designers inspire that like Vivian Westwood or you know you think of Vivian Westwood you don't just think of Vivian Westwood you think of the community you think of Malcolm McLaren you think of Adam and the Ants you think of Annabella Wynn when you think of Vivian Westwood it's really like a type of of community that's based around just kind of like this sort of punk but also people that are quite awake you know people are curious about the world

1:19:44Bella Freud:And value system, really.

1:19:46FKA twigs:Value system. But, yeah, Rick has that in his own way as well.

1:19:52Bella Freud:And if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

1:19:59FKA twigs:No. No, I've dated plenty of people that don't have, like, a strong sense of style. um no not really to be honest with you

1:20:21Bella Freud:there's no repellent factor in no any garment i mean not really

1:20:29FKA twigs:no i actually don't really care about stuff like that yeah i mean this is like my thing i wouldn't it's nice i mean jordan's got beautiful style and he always yeah he does looks like really wonderful which is nice it's a bonus but but um i know i think it's like what what's on the inside or that matters

1:20:55Bella Freud:and your album you sex you are is a word that you invented and but it seems very much like a word that we need and you've described it as the moment of nothingness before ecstasy and is that feeling part of why you're always moving forward and expanding your horizon yeah like always in

1:21:20FKA twigs:the search of you sexual always preparing for it always want to be ready to receive it yeah i don't know i think i like to move forward because i don't like doing the same mistakes twice so I like to keep moving forward because I want to be able to learn in my life and I just have this like idea I said this before but I really want to be healthy able sexy financially stable all of the wonderful things that you get when you get a bit older but then like not an idiot you know because when I was in my like 20s and early 30s I just like did really like stupid things um so I'm just trying to get this cross-section where I can like learn from those mistakes but still feel very youthful yeah so that's why I like to move forward and try new things because it's like those experiences I've learned from in the past can guide me but I can still feel very helpful helpful I can still feel very healthy yeah and I can still feel very vital in my body it's amazing to to have that awareness at this point in life instead of

1:22:39Bella Freud:most people that comes a lot later and it's so much fun as well um i love that idea of you know just that still moment where something's about to happen and um Having that as part of your resource as well and being kind of alive to it. It's a real adventure. And you've talked about body autonomy and resistance and also about enjoying some of your nightmares. I mean, literally, your dream nightmares. And I laughed so much when I read when you said, oh, actually, I quite like some of my nightmares. and you're an actor too and you've just made a film with Anne Hathaway and Michaela Cole and I wonder what do you do with your autonomy when you're acting in someone else's story?

1:23:42FKA twigs:I just give it up, it's such a relief. It's nice, I mean there is a lot of freedom but it's in a contained space which is nice. you can actually do more with it um but yeah that's the thing I love about acting is being able to just like drop everything it's really nice especially if you have a director that really know what they're doing it's really comforting it's like trust it's like really

1:24:06Bella Freud:trust yeah you said about enjoying being like someone else's tool in a way yeah I love it is that a bit like when you're performing and you know you can hit the note but you go somewhere else with it just because you can is it a bit like that when you're being an actor

1:24:27FKA twigs:no it's different it's almost like you're like a laser gun and someone's like like holding you and you're like the laser you just have to like let them guide you yeah it's like you're you're the laser and you can't like fight it because you're going to misfire but you just let someone completely like hold you and and put you in the right place and then you shoot and then it's like on target but that's why it just has to be with a good director because sometimes it's like otherwise not a good director but like someone that you have synergy with because there's lots of different types of people but yeah but when you have synergy with the director you trust where they're guiding you and you can shoot and because they know what the overarching vision for the film is or even your character um yeah it's nice to let someone else like use you use your like skills sometimes like in the end of striptease I worked with Marius DeVries oh yeah on like and I sing all of these like really high notes and he really guided me through all of those and um I never would have written that line by myself because I didn't know I could sing that high but when he was like saying like sing this note and I was like I don't know if I can sing that and then I did it and I could you know but I would not have written that solely by myself because I didn't know I could sing like that so yeah even in my own work sometimes it's nice to let go of the reins and let people move through me yeah like they can like put on my my flesh suits I put on my vessel and kind of create things through me with what they think that I'm possible of doing which is really nice when someone almost wears you and guides you yeah but with what they think you're able to do because it could be more than what you think you're able

1:26:23Bella Freud:to do so it was Marius de Vries who pushed you to go that high for the was that the first time because it's such a kind of one of the things that you could when you talked about training with a your that your singing teacher was an opera scene and it's the way you sound as if you were just born with this ability to go anywhere with your voice and how great i i know i've had to really work at it yeah yeah how brilliant that he's he saw that he's a real i mean he's a genius at that

1:26:56FKA twigs:He is. Yeah, it's really special actually. I think it's also the tone as well because I've always sang very high, but sometimes I'll sing high and I'll like flick notes. I can flick really high notes. But then the way he encouraged me to sing, it was really long and almost, it's like this woman, we spoke about this woman at the edge of a mountain. It's like the wind and her voice is going into the wind and telling this story to the valley below. and this like woman on the edge of a cliff, like Pocahontas, all the leaves are going to like push you off. I've not sang with that tone before. It's almost like, I don't know, it's like it's almost in a different language, even though I'm not singing words.

1:27:42FKA twigs:It's really fun to do live though.

1:27:44Bella Freud:God.

1:27:45FKA twigs:So fun. That's fantastic.

1:27:50Bella Freud:and it's just been amazing to be in your world for the last in preparation for you being here and I've enjoyed it so much and discovered so many things about myself as well and how I can relate to your journey and thank you so much for being on Fashion Neurosis Twigs it's been

1:28:11FKA twigs:totally entrancing amazing I'm so happy I didn't cry I thought you could that because with your

1:28:17Bella Freud:voice I thought I was gonna be like I never thought you'd cry you just seem I don't know you just seem to be generating so much happiness into I mean I it's incredible it really is so

1:28:34FKA twigs:striking and affecting and really yeah it is yeah I almost cried when you spoke about polystyrene

1:28:40Bella Freud:oh god also um when you when i was reading about you mike chapman is it mike chapman being like mentoring you and saying you were like annabella lewin and i i saw i saw them perform and i actually auditioned for bow wow at one point because they kicked her out they were always rowing with her and they kicked her out of the band and auditioned various people, one of whom was me and I totally didn't get in. And then they took her back because they couldn't find anyone as good as that.

1:29:17FKA twigs:Oh, there you go.

1:29:18Bella Freud:Yeah, she was fantastic.

1:29:20FKA twigs:That's what the box used to do to me. Really? When I worked at the box, I'd always fire me and then try and audition other people and then two weeks later have to ask me back.

1:29:29Bella Freud:Yeah, God.

1:29:31FKA twigs:And I'd always go back. yeah annoyingly well but back then they paid cash and it was good yeah and I was living in East London trying to do music so I'd always be like next time they fire me that's it and they'd fire me again why did they fire you uh they'd always fire me because like I didn't have I was like the house singer there and I didn't have like that really like big jazzy voice you know it was like my own so I think that they wanted me to be like like more like that and I was just not able to do that um but then they'd always like end up taking me back yeah I bet they did

1:30:26Thank you.