Jerry Hall

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1:27Hi, come in.

1:33Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Geri Hall. Thank you. It's lovely to be here. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? I'm wearing this Tom Brown cardigan and some Gucci velvet jeans. I just thought as I'm lying down, I'd be comfortable. And also, it's gorgeous. I love Tom Brown's things. I love it. And these Gucci jeans are very flattering. And the ballet flats. Yes, they're just comfy. Yeah. No, I live in the country now, and so I'm often wearing jeans and cardigans. And, you know, I still come up to town and dress up a bit. But mostly I'm just sort of having a really good time in the country.

2:29Oh, you look dazzling. Thank you. And you're the original 70s supermodel, and you were a pioneer of a new genre of models as much valued for charismatic personality as your looks. And you have a great southern wit, and you once quoted your mother saying, a wife should be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen, and a whore in the bedroom. And I wondered how did you just... No, no, it actually goes, my mother taught me a wife should be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen, and a whore in the bedroom. But I think I'll hire the first two and do the last bit myself. well you kind of made you just made it seem fun to everybody else and I remember like noting your kind of poise and your style and how you flip things and owned things in this kind of you know this exciting way and it was really fun to to witness that and um well I've had so much fun I've had the most wonderful career I was so lucky I mean my mother there was my mother and my grandmother and us five girls and my father was away a lot but my mother loved watching old Hollywood movies and she loved glamour and she taught us to love glamour and when I was 16 I went off to Paris and started modeling got discovered working with great photographers and French Vogue and amazing designers and I was just so lucky my mom said actually I went to It's Saint-Tropez because my mom said the Riviera is the place to be because we'd watched to catch a thief.

4:33No. And she made me all these fabulous clothes I took in my backpack. They were like copies of, there was like a Givenchy snakeskin with all these panels. Your legs came out. And they were like very, very fitted and tight with dolman sleeves and three-quarter length. And she made a red satin one that had a little thin belt with rhinestone lips. And then it went tight to the knees and then flared out. And we made these feather boas that we sewed strips of marabou feathers together. Great mom. She had me all ready. Everyone was like, wow, where'd you get those clothes? my mom made them you know going to the mesquite sewing center wow that's so cool that's so impressive but i still love glamour i still love clothes yeah well you're very good at you're very good at them you say you're dressed comfortable but you look absolutely stunning and Thank you.

5:43No kind of concession to country living in your edit. And I've got my Tracy Emin Love necklace on. Because I remember meeting you in Mustique when I was 17 and you were probably 22. Oh. And I remember you lying on the bonquette in Basil's Bar, like just leaning back and your hair fanning out. And I remember that you were wearing a pair of tiny little pale blue satin shorts. And you told me about doing leg wrestling in Texas. And were you the champion of leg wrestling? Yes, I was the girls champion of my school district for leg wrestling. It was great fun. No, it's all been fun. I've loved every single minute.

6:36I've had the best life. And still now, you know, I wake up every morning, I go outside, have my cup of coffee, listen to the birds singing. And I think, oh, I'm so lucky to have a beautiful garden and, you know, four beautiful children, three grandchildren. And I've had a fabulous career all because of loving fashion. Yeah, no, it's a great kind of, it's a great thing to be alongside with because it's motivating. Even, you know, people suggest it's a kind of surface thing, but it actually does make you feel good. And then it gives you drive and energy. And because I remember back in, you know, when I met you and I was, I remember walking.

7:30What a good memory you have. Well, you made a real impression on me because I, you know, firstly I was in Mustique and I was there. I had been sort of sent there to escape certain circumstances. Lucky you. I was supposed to take people out riding there, but no one ever wanted to go riding. And you were there with Mick. and I think you were there for Colin Tennant who owned the island. That's right. He used to have a big party every year. That's right. I remember Colin, like the one time someone wanted to go riding and I forgot or slept in and he got absolutely furious. He had a terrible temper.

8:18I know. Did you ever see him angry? Oh, yes. Because he was terrifying. Yes. What do you remember what he did? Oh, he was crazy. He did crazy things. But, I mean, he made Mystique so beautiful. And, you know, he brought Oliver Messel to do all those beautiful houses and brought Princess Margaret. And, you know, he brought so many people. He had great ideas. but when he loses temper he would just be crazy. It was quite... Everyone would run. Yeah, it was like sort of someone in a Tennessee Williams play or something. He would become deranged. I love his wife, Anne. Yeah, Anne is amazing. She's so great.

9:09I loved her book. Her book is incredible and kind of liberate, having this kind of new life in her 90s. I know. Very, very funny. I saw her a few weeks ago. Did you? She's in such good form. She's a great survivor. Because I remember in Mastique walking behind you and Mick. Well, we must have been going to some gathering or something. And I remember walking behind you both. And I remember what you were wearing because you looked so amazing. and I'd never seen anyone dressed like you. And you were wearing like an oyster-colored velour, skin-tight leggings and a matching skin-tight top. And your hair was cascading down your back.

10:03And you've talked in the past about liking to dress for the man you're with. And I did love what you wore. Or what kind of things did you like to wear for him? Who knows? You know. No, I mean, it's interesting because you've described two things by what I was wearing. And I have the same kind of memory. I remember people by what they were wearing. You know, I don't remember where we were or what their names are. But if their clothes made an impression, I'll remember them and I'll remember every single bit of their clothes. It's like a clothes memory. Yeah. Also, I think certain people bring out the desire to dress in a particular way.

11:03I actually love it if a man wants me to wear certain things. And it must have been so much fun for you with this spectacular figure and being so beautiful to kind of, did you enjoy indulging that kind of fantasy in your admirers? Well, I mean, Mick and I, we used to go a lot to parties, you know, and so we would always dress up. And we used to go, we spent, I think it was three years going practically every night to Studio 54. And everyone dressed up. It was such a spectacle. It was so much fun. But also, you know, being out with Mick and going to these events, we used to get photographed a lot.

11:57And so I used to always take care to, you know, wear something beautiful. and I always liked sexy and glamorous. And, you know, Mick, of course, he's a man. They normally like you to dress sexy. But... Because some men like a prim look. I don't think I always dress for the man. I think I mostly dress for myself and my girlfriends because they really notice. Men don't really notice clothes very much. I mean, they don't notice a lot. Like sort of, you know, men won't notice if women have had too much plastic surgery or anything. They just say, oh, she looks pretty good. You know, it's like they don't really, it's really women who really notice everything.

12:55It's true that about men not noticing plastic surgery. They don't notice a lot, whereas we spot the smallest tweak. I know, I know. It's like, oh, that's quite good. And women really notice your clothes. You know, men will say, oh, you look lovely. But women will go, oh, I love that jacket. That's such a nice cut. Where'd you get that? You know, it's a whole detail women see. Do you think men more notice the effect that your clothes are having on them? Yes. Mm. Yeah. Because you grew up in Texas and you're with a dominant and alcoholic father who wanted sons but had five daughters. Do you think you suppressed aspects of yourself to accommodate your father?

13:44Well, he wasn't alcoholic. Oh, really? No, people say that, but I don't know where that came from. He was General Patton's staff sergeant on all his campaigns in World War II. and he was a much decorated hero and he was extremely organized and we had lists of chores to do and things to do he did want boys but he ended up with five girls but we had to do all of our chores or we would get in trouble and he was quite frightening but But I think he did the best he could, you know. I think he did the best he could, and I think my mother did too. Yeah. I mean, I tend to not think about the past or bad things.

14:43I tend to just, like, think about the future or now. I never go to psychiatrists or doctors even I don't really like the idea of like labeling yourself or taking medication or anything like that I mean I think your mind is like a computer you just put in and it just reads it you know like so if you say to yourself you wake up in the morning you say oh I'm so thankful for everything I'm so happy I'm gonna have the most wonderful joyful day I think your mind just takes that in and that happens um I mean my philosophy that's really gotten me through everything in life is I always say what will be will be and it works even when you're sad even if you're having success what will be will be works.

15:47So you don't put too much attention on success or trying to achieve it because, you know, what will be will be. And the same with sorrow. I mean, life is full of sorrow and grief and people you love die and horrible things happen. But it's just the way we are as humans, You know, we get old, we die, you know, things happen. Well, it's very... It's worked for me. Yes, it clearly has. I don't think it's false positive. I think it's programming your brain and your body listens to your brain. It's true and the other way around. And I suppose I'm always interested in, like, sometimes I'll find myself kind of adjusting my reactions.

16:47And if that doesn't kind of, you know, kind of further whatever it is I want, I sometimes go back and pull things apart and think, you know, yeah, I did. My desire to please my father made me behave in maybe kind of. Well, that's a good thing to be watching yourself, to get to know yourself. Yeah, that's what I meant really. Like, do you think. Well, Aristotle says the secret to happiness is to know yourself. and um i suppose yeah if you think that you're doing you're you're affected by your wanting to please someone else and if you're diverted from your course which would please you more yeah i think that that's important to look at it's interesting to know yeah what it was and why you still do it sometimes.

17:54I mean, your father, what a brilliant, genius painter. But strong character. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I know. So strong men are always very attractive. Yes, definitely. But, I mean, now I'm not dating at all and not really planning on it. next birthday I'll be 70 which is quite old I mean we used to live the three score and 10 was 70 and then since antibiotics now average is like 80 but some people live to be 90 I actually had a great grandmother live to be 106 so you never know but definitely more summers have gone than are coming yeah yeah so you know you want to enjoy life now um I quite enjoy being older because you can sit in the shade and you know you don't have rivals you know you don't have um delusions what do you mean by rivals well there's no women who are chasing my man that's for sure because I haven't got one.

19:16I quite enjoy that. And, you know, I don't feel I have any, you know, I don't have to prove myself in any way. I feel I've been lucky. I've had a wonderful career. And it's gone on so long, it's ridiculous. And it's still going on, isn't it? It's just now, it's just pleasurable, you know, a bit of reminiscing. And I still enjoy the thing of, you know, when you get clothes on and you do a photograph, there's that moment of what shall I do? It's like a moment of creativity. I still enjoy that. Yeah. And, you know, delusional, not being delusional is, you know, I mean, when you fall in love with someone, you're just completely delusional about everything, you know.

20:03That's part of falling in love, isn't it? Yeah. Because I was reading that you said when you were 14, this guy slipped a quarter of a tab of acid in your drink. And when you were tripping, you looked in the mirror and thought, oh my God, I'm so beautiful. And I wondered if like, was that the first time you really realized how beautiful you were? Yes. And that was the night I decided I would go off and be a model, which, you know, coming from a small town in Texas, you know, to have this dream of going off to Paris and becoming a fashion model was very unrealistic and um but taking i mean you know that lsd i don't know it just made me sort of i stared in the mirror and just sort of thought you know wow this is what i'm gonna do it gave me confidence yeah it's so interesting yeah that But it seemed like this kind of...

21:13It changed my life. Yeah. It's so lucky, isn't it? It's a real... Could have been bad. Yes, because LSD can go anyway. I'd never take it again. No. Changed my whole life. Just to have that thought, you know. Because when you were describing these amazing clothes that your mother made you and you went off to Paris and you said that you'd met Simone de Beauvoir and Jean-Paul Sartre in a cafe. Yes, I met so many amazing people. What were you wearing? How did that conversation strike up? I was envisaging you in the... I would put on these amazing outfits that my mother made me and then I had a friend who had a great Dane and I got a rhinestone collar for the Great Dane and I would take it to La Coupe.

22:09Oh, yeah, that was great. And everyone would just stare at me and I had these giant platform shoes which made me about six foot four. And people would invite me to have a drink with them. And is that where you met? Yeah, and then they would invite me to lunch or, you know, to give me food because I didn't have much money in those days. And I was very happy to have a meal. And I would just tell them my story about growing up. And they were completely transfixed. I met Salvador Dali. Really? Yeah. And did he try to make you do some sort of performance? He asked me to go to Spain and do a video, a film he wanted to do, of me nude with a white chiffon scarf running through his garden.

23:06But I said, I'm so sorry, I couldn't do it because I'd promised my mother not to do nudes. Really? I really regretted that. I should have done it. But we became friends and I met up with him and his wife several times. I love your code of ethics imposed by your mother. It's sort of like a kind of safety net that you could really... It was good when I was young. Yeah. Yeah. Especially being so far from home that somehow you could have these kind of guides, you know, oh, I can't do that because my mother said no. It's so kind of far-fetched, but it obviously worked very well. It did. Because you were great friends with the brilliant fashion illustrator Antonio Lopez.

24:05Yes. I wondered, when did you decide to wear your hair with the amazing side parting? And did he help you define your look? He did. And he, I used to pose for him a lot and he would draw me and he would draw my makeup and my hair and everything, how he wanted it to be. And then I would look at it and think it looked so nice and I would copy what he'd drawn. I'd start to copy all the makeup and wearing my hair, like how he'd drawn it. And he was a great inspiration. yeah he was a famous kind of well how would you describe that he was a an image as a fashion illustrator and um fashion illustration you know used to be more popular than it is now you hardly ever see it anymore but you know he would do fashion illustrations for vogue and l and different magazines and he was very very talented he was very creative um I actually lived with him and his two friends we lived together we shared an apartment for a bit and he was lovely he came with me he was my boyfriend sort of but you know actually he was gay but um he came with me to Jamaica with uh English Vogue when I did my first photo shoot with English Vogue and Grace Coddington was the editor and Norman Parkinson was the photographer.

25:43And it was such wonderful shoots. And Antonio is in a lot of the photos with me. And he was just very inspirational. He always had movement going across the page. You know, he would just make everything come alive. so it's sort of movement and vitality because you you also shared a flat in Paris with Jessica Lang and Grace Jones I did I wondered did you have any kind of rituals for going out and who was the leader in your gang I don't know I don't not sure I mean I was new kid on the block and Pat Cleveland's completely mad and we used to see a lot of her. And then Grace Jones, she was even newer than me.

26:36She'd just first come. And Jessica was very serious about becoming an actress. Yeah. But we had so much fun. Getting ready to go out dancing was so much fun. We used to glue sort of glittery stars across our forehead. and we used to do all kinds of things where did you start with an outfit well we would start with our makeup and um and then you know we didn't have the kind of fabulous clothes that you know we wanted but we would get things from flea markets and sometimes some designer would give us something and we um we would get things from like cheap shops and pigal these kind of sexy lace body stockings and things and um and then we'd have like a big belt we just and we'd sort of trade between each other with different things you know um can I borrow this and can I borrow that you know it was a lot of fun actually the getting ready was the funnest part Yeah, yeah.

27:46It always is, isn't it? God. I suppose with your amazing bodies and beautiful faces, you could just have so much fun with very little scraps. So much fun. And we used to put on little shows for our friends. We used to do like, we used to sing, We're Just Three Little Girls from Little Rock. Oh, my God. And we used to say to Grace, You should be a singer. you've got such a good voice oh I would have died to have seen that how amazing who did you put the shows on for um Antonio and his friends and you know some we had some friends who were transvestites and we used to put on we were in this hotel it had a dividing curtain with two beds on one side and one bed on the other side and so we used to you know open the curtain and put on the show oh that must have been incredible we did get kicked out of a few hotels for making too much not too much noise and smoking pot and loud music god it sounds so much fun yeah support for the show comes from amazon there are the things you can plan for a first birthday party a movie marathon, a renter-friendly bathroom reno.

29:10And then there are the things you can never plan for. A surprise rainstorm, a Blu-ray player calling it quits, stick-on tiles that looked way better on the package. For all things planned and unplanned, Amazon has you covered. You'll find low prices on everyday essentials and last-minute lifesavers. Shop Amazon and save on essentials. Save the everyday. I'm Midge First, two-time NWCL champion, championship MVP, and forward for the U.S. Women's National Team. Before I went pro, I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology, which comes in handy more than you think. Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have.

29:54What people don't know is what that costs. In my podcast, Confessions of an Elite Athlete, I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology, mindset, and unseen battles on the path to greatness. So take a seat and learn from the confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

30:25Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough podcast. Each episode, I sit down with high-achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week, journalist Dean at USC and now, along with her husband Bob Iger, owner of the Angel City FC women's soccer team. Willow Bay. I said, Bob, are you interested in doing this? And he said, absolutely. But I was definitely the driving force, I think, in the conviction about Angel City. Check out Pretty Tough, new episodes on Wednesdays. You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app.

31:06And you then were booked to be on the cover of Brian Ferry's album, Sirens, and the designer, Anthony Price, painted you blue. Yes. How did you go from being the blue cover girl to being in love with Brian Ferry? How did that happen? Well, I was living in New York working and I went and did the English Vogue cover, which the whole series was blue. Was that the blue telephone? Yeah, the blue telephone and the blue swimming cap and swimsuit. And so Brian had hired me to come over to do his album cover. And he picked me up and I was in a nice hotel. Anyway, he was so handsome and he sang so beautifully.

31:58I was swooning. And then we went off to Wales by train to do this shoot. And Anthony had made this amazing mermaid outfit with these mermaid fins. And I had fins on my ankles. and I had an amazing crown and Brian was holding the umbrella because it was quite sunny because I had this blue body paint and they didn't want it to melt. Anyway, yeah, we started up a romance and we were engaged and we were together for two years. And then Mick whisked you away. Yeah, Mick and I, we were together 23 years and four children. And now we've got three grandchildren. And we're still friendly. I'm still friendly with Brian, too.

33:00Yeah, I love Brian. He's an amazing person. Because going back, I remember, again, in Mustique, you had this incredible... Can you tell me what I'm wearing? Yes. So you were the first girl that I saw being sexy and wearing flat shoes. And I remember when we were there in Mustique, you saying how hard it was to find flats. And how is it being incredibly beautiful and being incredibly tall? And I wondered, how does it affect how you plan a first impression when you're going on a date? um hmm no I mean the good thing about it is at a party you can see where your friends are you can see over everybody but um no I mean I think you know I've never been out with someone who was worried about me being taller than them really um so I like wearing flat shoes because they're more comfortable but high heels can look so pretty especially with certain dresses um I tend to go for the kitten heel yeah not the really really tall ones I think those are a bit too tall How tall are you in a tall shoe?

34:28Like, you know, well, it depends. I mean, I'm 5 '11", so, you know, however tall the high heels are, I could be really tall. It must be so much fun, though, looking down. Already you have these long legs. They're so long. And just having them even longer must be so much fun. Yes, they do look nice. in a photograph with heels. Because I was reading an interview that you did in 1978 with Andy Warhol and Bob Colicello where you're all talking about jealousy and they say to you, would you like to get married? And you say, I like being engaged, but I don't know about marriage. Guys start telling you what to do when you get married.

35:19And I wondered, has that been your experience? Yeah, I think so. Definitely. I've always been very independent. I mean, my mother brought us up to be quite strong and independent. My sister Cindy was girls champion bull rider and saddle bronc rider, RCA champion. She rode in Madison Square Garden. And my sister Rosie was Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. We've always been kind of athletic. Athletic and independent. And, yeah, I don't think, you know, I don't think I could ever have someone tell me what to do anymore. No, definitely not. Because didn't your mother say another brilliant thing, something about giving a man something about a man having the head?

36:23Let a man be the head, but remember you're the neck and you can turn him how you like. I think she was quite a feminist. Yes. It's a way, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, my daughter, Lizzie, she's been working as an equal rights amendment feminist activist for passing the ERA. She's been doing that for several years. Wow. I suppose there's different, I mean, being brought up in the South and having a dominant father and you must have seen women sort of finding out different ways of getting needs met rather than being able to be, you know, now it's the fashion to be direct. My mother used to say, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

37:20Oh, my God. You have to have a lot of diplomacy as well, I suppose. She was full of pearls of wisdom. Because also you've talked about sitting for portraits by Andy Warhol. Yes, Andy painted six portraits of me. Really? Yeah. And what did he talk to you about? Did he want you to tell him? I loved him. We were great friends. He was wonderful. Did he want you to tell him interesting gossip? He loved gossip. That was his favorite. And he actually, we talked a lot about cleaning products too. He liked cleaning products. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, because I told him how my mom cleaned everything with baking soda and vinegar.

38:20And he loved that. What was his favorite cleaning problem? No, but he would go out to the shop and buy different ones, try different ones, and say, what do you think about this one or that one? So great. No, he was lovely. He was such fun, such a sweet man. He was so generous and kind. Yeah, I miss him. Yeah, he was great. It was terrible, you know, how many people. You know, there was a whole period in New York where so many people died. It was terrible. I remember meeting him just once when, but it was after he'd been shot and he was quite frail and he came to London once and it was really exciting to see him.