Kristen McMenamy

0:15Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Kristen McMenamy. Thank you. Nice to be here. Can you tell me what clothes you're wearing today and why you chose them? Well, today I have a Comme de Garçon dress on. I don't know why I chose it. I had about seven other outfits I could have chosen all lined up. And I just, I don't know. This one came in the mail yesterday. I bought it secondhand. I put it on. I loved it. And then I thought, oh, it's too black. But I had a lot of colors. But I just, I don't know. I loved it. So that's pretty much it. And what about the shoes? The shoes of Miu Miu. They used to make the best shoes.

1:10They used to. They don't anymore. Well, the dress is exquisite. I must say I was slightly worrying about what to wear myself, knowing you'd appear in something major. No, no, no, no. I could have gone. I had something that was very major in glam. I decided on being sober. Right. And very just plain. Well, we're matching in black satin, even though it's kind of different garments. Yes, we are. Same fabrics. This message comes from Betterment. Betterment's Dan Egan talks about tax loss harvesting. Tax-loss harvesting is a tax management strategy. When you have a position that's gone down over time, we intentionally sell out of it to realize a loss, which we then say to the IRS, hey, we lost money.

2:06You get to use that to offset your ordinary income every year, decreasing your tax burden. Investing involves risk. Performance not guaranteed. Betterment does not offer tax advice. TLH may not be suitable for all customers. Learn more at betterment.com slash TLH dash terms. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more.

2:41And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at Odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. And you're one of the famous 90s supermodels who you've appeared on the covers of Vogue and been photographed by the most famous photographers in the world and appeared in legendary campaigns alongside Cindy and Christy, Kate and Naomi. me and you're more in demand than ever and who was your pin-up when you were a girl oh um it was janice dickinson oh wow yeah believe it or not she was phenomenal and uh a lot of the girls the models of that that era Janice's era were blonde like blonde big boobs just you know and she was the first one I saw that was like different like she looked different and she had dark hair and you know big lips and she was just like wild and she was my she was my pinup for sure and did you see her where did you see her for the first time in in uh vogue folks you know whatever yeah i guess more vogue because i lived for vogue and was vogue in your in your home or did you gun i look at it in a shop i looked at the shop yeah i looked at a shop but i did have some of her pictures at home and I just stared at them and I stared at them and I thought she must be the happiest girl in the world to be doing this job looking like that mmm a perfect life a perfect that's what I want that's what I want yeah everyone loves you you're being admired by everybody who reads this magazine uh yeah she she i wanted what she had yeah it's odd isn't it because i've found that the more beautiful a woman is the more insecure she tends to be about her beauty and uh some of I've always liked to be friends with the prettiest girl in the class so I I was I always had that kind of I was always sort of struck by that thing that you described that she must be so happy and and finding how what a double-edged sword it was to be that beautiful that it seemed to be something that it didn't bring the security that I expected that it should bring.

5:56Well, that's what I've discovered. I never thought of myself as beautiful at all, but I knew with makeup and lighting and hair, I could look beautiful on a photograph. I took off the makeup, took off whatever, the dress, and I was back to being this awkward, ugly thing. And I carry that to this day. I still feel like little Chrissy in Pennsylvania. I do. So the insecurity. Plus, as a model, you become more and more insecure. You are surrounded by the most beautiful girls in the world. I mean, that is your competitor kind of thing. Not really, but you know. And you just, you have to stop yourself from comparing yourself to them.

7:09And plus you have then, you know, when you become successful, you know, you see them before. you're you've like before I ever worked I lived with a house full of the most I mean I walked in and I thought my god these women are Amazonian beauties you know they're just they must be the biggest models and I just felt so small and so so uh what's the word in in in in in that you don't inadequate or inadequate or yeah something like that one of the in words yeah what do you know i have a word i always have a word at the tip of my tongue and i can't get it out and people suggest other words i'm like no no no i haven't um yeah so i compare myself to that they actually weren't working at all, which is like mind-blowing for me because it's like, how can these beautiful girls?

8:20And now that I'm successful, it's keeping it up, keeping it up. You know, people have this idea of you and then you have to, you can't present yourself, well, I can't because of my insecurity. I can't present myself at a job and, you know, weigh 50 more pounds and have cut my hair and, you know, and, and, and aging is a big thing because each time, you know, you're getting older, you're getting older and I am working a lot. So, um, not money jobs, but I'm working a lot with good people and it's it's a constant pressure to to keep it up you know just to keep it up I mean I was thinking yesterday I'm I'm in this like hamster wheel and I can't stop I can't get off it you know I just want to run away to a forest in norwegia norwegia sounds good is that Is that a country?

9:35Norway. Norway. I like the sound of Norwegian. A Norwegian forest in Norway. Yeah, or somewhere that I just, there's no presenting yourself to anyone. There's no mirrors. there's no this whole idea of of being considered a beautiful woman has so many balls and chains attached to it um so yeah i mean i love my job i love it but I I'm still amazed I'm here but do I do I want to stay here I guess yes I guess I do so there seems to be something about the group of you models from who were so successful in the 90s that that just hasn't changed that the well certainly from the your audience is still fascinating and there's all these new young people who are completely intrigued and obsessed with this group of you incredibly gifted and talented models who have such everyone is so interesting and it's your personality that also is part of your look.

11:12So that's not going anywhere. That's just increasing with every passing year. And it's so... That's true. And I mean, what I learned is early on is personality is, is for me it was my thing that I thought if I made people feel better if I made people laugh they wouldn't look so much at me the details of anything you know so um that yeah that's kind of my my smoke screen or whatever you call it but uh all the girls of that time, the super bottles, were, I don't know what it was, but we all had something. Yeah, you're right. And it was just amazing timing, amazing timing. I mean, the fact that I was working in the 90s, and I'm here, laying on this couch, talking about it and still working is phenomenal.

12:23I mean, phenomenal. So, yeah, I mean, we were, but we didn't have distractions, no mobile phones, because everybody now, the models you walk into like backstage, they're always looking on their phones and they're not engaging. Like we had to engage. Yeah. And we had to work. You know, we had to work. There was, there were no, like, there were less restrictions, less rules that they have. Now it's kind of like, do your job, look pretty, leave. You know, and the little girls don't have a chance to develop because they're taken so quickly and put on this this stage this golden stage of like being the the girl of the moment for the whole fashion industry you know and it's like wait a minute so they I don't know I don't know what how what effect it has on them but for me it has had a horrible effect it's like it's modeling hard work well I never thought of it as hard work I look back and think that wouldn't have been allowed now you know like working all through through the night we were all like you know walking around naked and so it's just like you know a photographer would say oh you look so sexy and it it would be like a compliment and you know it's like make love to the camera I don't know but it definitely we had we had a good moment to we had I I fell in on a good moment because I wasn't one of the original supermodels I kind of came in there got in there as like the dark supermodel you know the the weird looking one and and Stephen Mizell I mean a few photographers yeah i can name but steve mysell really created that image yeah of me um cut it together recreated it did you do a shoot with him and did you work with his team like gap was it garen garen garen garen oh he was incredible the hairdresser most incredible hairdresser and if you want a haircut But Garen is like the best.

15:19Yeah, I had a haircut from Garen. But yeah, so Garen, when I first, I think I just had come back from having a baby. And I, yeah, I won't go into that. But I just came back. And I didn't know if I was going to work again. You know, it's like, okay, is this it? I don't know. I didn't really care at that time. But Stephen, I worked with Stephen. And, you know, the 90s, I have, like, so little recollection. I was so drunk all the time. But I'll try.

16:05So, yeah, I shaved the back of my head the night before. You did. I did, and I dyed my hair black with some pharmacy stuff, and I cut it really short, and I walked into the studio, and I had plucked some of my eyebrows out. I don't know why I did that before a job, but I did. I did. so I got it and Garen said what have you done to yourself I'm like fuck what have I done to myself I fucked my career but he took his scissors and made it look like that you know like a bowl haircut it was so genius and Francois plucked out all the rest of my eyebrows and uh Francois Nars yeah Francois Nars. And then Stephen took my picture.

17:13It was an Italian Vogue. I'm on the cover. And I'm wearing Versace. Wow. And that cover is like, you know, it's just one of those covers that I'm so proud of. Because it's proud of, yeah, I'm proud of it. You know, I love it. And I think even if it was a different girl, I would love it. Because at that time, it's all in the context of the time, the history, you know, the pointed history. But before that, it wasn't, we created this kind of freak. I mean, I looked like a freak, which is amazing. I love that. I love the fact that I could look like a freak and still be celebrated. And that was new to the fashion industry because it was like, whoa.

18:20And then, you know, I get all this bad press and good press, but mostly good. Yeah. Yeah. So and that launched my career even more. I was working a lot before, but even that launched it into the supermodel status. because I remember meeting you for the first time I think it was 1992 at Sao Schlumberger's house in Paris and you were hanging out with Sandra Bernhard and you looked a bit like her pretty younger sister and she was sort of bossing you around I don't I just remember her noticing noticing you and her yeah and i wondered did that happen a lot that people impose their ideas of how they want you to be or how they want you to act well

19:23i don't remember that who whose house do you remember she was um a brazilian uh heiress i think she was quite old and her house had been done up and it looked like it had been interior designed by salvador dali and um it was one of those fashion parties gatherings and andre leon tally was there and it was the most incredible night and I hardly ever went to anything like that so I remember the detail I remember what I was wearing because I just started you were you were sober right yeah I can't I find I'm amazed by by the fact that you went through the whole 90s like that sober I was I was I tend if I had the chance I was drunk you know if I had the chance um and there's a lot of fuzzy things I don't remember that specific night because it all runs into another party into another house into another yeah yeah you know so Sandra Bernhard yeah we we hung around for a while and I don't know what happened but like many people they're in my life for a while then they go you know it's just the nature of the game I guess but um yeah yeah I get really close to people I was close to her and if she was bossing me around I was probably being bad.

21:12I don't know. I was probably being naughty. Because she seemed like she was probably quite good at bossing people around anyway. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.

21:56So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

22:07Recommendations can be amazing. I mean, maybe someone recommended that TV show you've been obsessed with lately. But when it comes to home projects, it's different. If you don't like a show, you might lose a few minutes. If you hire a friend of a friend of a friend to fix a leaky ceiling, you could end up with a flooded kitchen. Maybe I know a guy just isn't enough for your home. That's why Thumbtack works so well. They'll match you with a top-rated local pro, and you can see photos of past work, credentials, and reviews all right in the app. For your next home project, try Thumbtack. Hire the right pro today.

22:46Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. and do you remember what the first piece of clothing you became obsessed with as a child oh oh yes well i come from a family of seven kids roman catholic with not a lot of money and i got the hand-me-downs but when i started to get obsessed with clothes, it was up to me to make the money to buy the clothes.

24:02And I just didn't have enough. You know, no matter what job I had, and I had a lot of jobs. Like I was, I worked at Rory Rogers and I had to say, howdy partner, what can I get you today? And they smile. And then, and then when they get their food, I would get it. And then come again, Can you hear? It was like all that. I wore a cowboy hat. And like this faux kind of like cowgirl dress and made of plastic, you know. And I worked at Food Lane, taking inventory of men's trousers. Food Lane. That's like they sold clothes. I would make the announcements. Hello, shoppers. Today we have a sale on men's relaxed jeans.

25:03And then I first started out as a paper girl. The morning call. The morning call. I was up every morning at 5 in the morning. Or earlier because I had to do it before school. And it was dark. I just remember being scared about the whole. I was going to say scared my whole life, but I was kind of scared my whole life. But okay, I'm going around the circle. So I didn't have money to buy the clothes. I would window shop, but not just window shop. I would go into these places in the mall, because that's where you hung out, in the mall. and I would go through all the clothes like like a hundred times and just look and fantasize about having them because I wanted I wanted these clothes like these clothes would make me a good person like a better you know a better person I don't know I just wanted them so badly and the one thing I really wanted was parachute pants but they were like kind of tight kind of like rock and roll parachute pants and they had that slippery surface and I just thought they were the coolest thing in the world.

26:36I never got them. But now, now I'm making up for it. My childhood neglect. Yeah. And how did you manage the transition from girl to woman? Was that something you tried to control?

26:58well I never got to sex talk you know so I had to find out no but I did get the guilt about sex so that was quickly instilled in me I never felt like a girl I never felt like a woman I never felt like I don't know why that is. Because it's not like I want to be a man, but I just didn't feel good enough, I suppose. So the whole transition happened without me even kind of acknowledging it. I don't know. I don't know when I got my period. I forget. I didn't want to look too sexy. you know because I thought I'm not right for that I just felt a bit was a bit of an outcast but I just I don't know I never gave it that much thought but I never felt feminine you know did your mother acknowledge you or say you look pretty or no you didn't yeah never never And when I said I want to be a model, she said, oh, Chrissy, there's so many more beautiful girls out there.

28:25You know, just get a good job. Go to university, get a good job. Forget about that. That's what I got. And I never, I never was told I was beautiful or pretty or anything, you know. by anyone in your family no but I don't think I really was I don't I was gangly and insecure and I stooped and my hair was always in my face and yeah I didn't yeah I don't think I really was that that pretty and to this day I don't feel pretty I don't feel pretty I never felt pretty the whole time of the 90s what since I started modeling it never but behind the camera I feel beautiful I feel powerful I feel like maybe Maybe because I don't feel it's me behind the camera.

29:35It's I'm like, I'm not a character, but I'm like me, but superhero me. And I just love the whole feeling of creating a picture and trying to make it an amazing picture. Like a masterpiece. I want everyone to be a masterpiece. So me on the street is not me in front of a camera. Yeah.

30:12It's really weird that I ended up in a job. Or I even wanted to be. You know, I was obsessed with being this model. Yeah. Like Janice Dickinson. I was obsessed. but I wasn't pretty. I didn't think I was pretty. I wasn't told I was pretty. It was just this fantasy in my head. And, yeah, then, you know, but behind the camera, I knew. I knew I had something. Because, I mean, you know, I've looked at all your photographs going back, and you were so pretty, and you still are. And, but there's something in not being told it by, by someone, well, especially not being told it by your mother that makes it seem like it can't possibly be true, even though you had the evidence again and again being booked and booked and being on the covers of magazines and being, you know, an enduring figure in the fashion world.

31:21And I think it's real hard, it's hard to believe in it when that person doesn't say it to you. You know, the sort of relaxed confidence of that kind of love between a mother and a daughter doesn't sort of... Are you going to make me cry? Oh, baby.

31:57Okay. Yeah.

32:04I was never told that by my mom. In fact, my mom, she had seven kids, and that's a lot. That's too many, because it's like having a lot of cats. You can't give them individual attention. And she couldn't, and she didn't. And she was often frustrated with life, with all her responsibilities. And it was a different time, too. It was a different time. But I got very little attention. My brothers and sisters are the same. And I guess you always carry that with you, yeah? Yeah. You always, that's something that if it's not established early on, you're going to feel like not worth it, I guess, you know?

33:15Not worth, not worth, not worth much. I don't know. It's hard to believe it's not true, isn't it? Even though you know. Well, I didn't ever. I don't believe it's not true. I don't know. I look at, I know I'm a great model. I know I'm a great model. I know it. I know that I can be amazing in front of a camera and present and make a good photograph. but beauty I don't consider myself in that category not beautiful definitely not beautiful maybe weird or different but I embrace that so I embrace that I want to be like the oddball because I think there's a lot of oddballs out there, like suffering like I did as a kid and not feeling like they have a place in life because they're different from everyone else.

34:30And I want to represent them, you know, because that was me. And it's tough as a kid, man. It's the worst as a kid. all you want to do is fit in. Yeah. Because you've talked about your school years as being, you were a grade A student, but you've also talked about having no friends, and you said, I forgot everyone's name. That's how bad my childhood was. You said, I blocked it out. Yeah. Did anyone notice you were going through that? Yeah, they noticed. oh you mean the kids at school the kids at school noticed and because i was so gangly and hunched over and taller than the boys and i lacked confidence they they picked that up instantly so i was you know i was bullied but um my parents no no no no my parents nobody no and I really didn't know how to even do that, go to my parents and talk to them.

35:45I didn't know. I wasn't ever, well, I didn't feel, I didn't feel comfortable, definitely. I mean, my parents died two years ago, pretty much, my mom, my dad died before the, it wasn't two years ago. I always think it's shorter than it was what the epidemic whatever it's called my father died before my mother died right after so um what was the question what was i talking about you were talking about i was asking you did anyone notice what you were going through at school and uh i still don't feel i up until their death i never felt comfortable talking to them. Yeah. I never had... To be in a car with my father, you know, driving, it was just...

36:46It was like being trapped in a prison. It felt like, get me out! Yeah. Because I just couldn't relate. Yeah. I don't know. but they're dead now so i don't have to worry about it

37:07it's terrible because you've took you talked about this you know feeling insecure and how but knowing you're a good model and how does that help you to be a good model because you would think it would would be contraintuitive but actually it's something i've noticed in other great models too what's your resource that you switch on yeah well again it's like um I feel I have to work harder to so people don't concentrate so much on my face you know like I have to kind of

37:53just be fabulous, you know, like show the clothes and

38:01take chances. You know, I take chances all the time. Not like, you know, life or death kind of chances, but like, but a photograph, like do a pose that is off the wall. And

38:19And it's about I just lose myself. That's what I do. I lose my inhibitions. I lose my thoughts of being anything less than amazing. Yeah. And I just go for it. You know, I just, I live for that. You know, it's like those are my moments where I feel the best. It's kind of sad. I know. It's great because you're so good at it, you know, and it's, you know, the things, the photographs, the pictures that you've done. And I was watching the film you made with Karl Lagerfeld in 2011 called Tale of a Fairy with you and Amanda Harlick and Freya Beyer. and uh these scenes and it's you know all scripted and scenes of you lying in bed smoking and then and somebody massaging your feet and then you freak out at this big party and yeah it it was quite a strange film though what do you think Karl Lagerfeld was what point was he making because it wasn't it wasn't about it wasn't female empowerment either it was it was strange I think Carl had a fantasy about you know this life that didn't exist and it was just like this rich woman who was who was kind of unhappy, in love with her nephew, and going down the drain, losing her money.

40:14I don't know. You know what, Carl? Carl never... I love him. I think he's the best guy. No, not the best. The most eccentric. He was brilliant. Brilliant. and what he did for the fashion industry. And he had a sick sense of humor and he was amazing. But some of his things just didn't make sense. I don't think you have to think so deep about that movie because it was all over the place. I mean, all over the place. It was actually quite good and better than a lot of fashion films. I mean, there was a kind of weird plot and you were so good and Amanda was brilliant and all the freedom and the kind of emancipation was attributed to these young guys who actually weren't very good actors in the film and all of you women were fantastic.

41:17But I liked it. I mean, I'm picking holes in it just because there was quite a lot to think about and sort of reminiscent of a, like you said, an idea about a life that actually seems very dated or like more 1920s with everyone having nervous breakdowns and becoming morphine addicts. Well, I believe we shot at Coco Chirrell's original house in South France. I believe that was it. Right. So it was, you know, around that time and that he, yeah, he just, he loved. In fact, the boy that I was in love with, I shouldn't say this, but Carl was also in love with. That was very clear. Was it clear? Well, he got all the good lines.

42:24I mean, the good shot. He was the golden one. Yeah. And all the women were having these terrible existentialist crisis and being ignored by their men or someone's husband was paying attention to someone else. Yes. It was like the worst party you could go to. I know. Everybody was happy. Oh, my God. Yeah. yeah because um also you've been a judge on rupaul's drag race three times is that correct yeah did you well the judge three times and then i recently did backstage with rue and we talked to the um to the queens which was so sweet oh it's so good and so funny oh my god I never laughed. No, really.