Rashida Jones

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1:16Hi, come in.

1:23Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Rashida Jones. Thank you. Happy to be here. Nervous. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? Well, I am wearing a kind of suit, stripy suit by a wonderful designer. It's also my friend named Erdem. Erdem. I love Erdem. I was in my Bella Freud cashmere top, but it's really hot out. And I had to prioritize that, but it is my favorite top and I wear it all the time. Thank you. You're an award-winning actor, producer, and writer. You're also the daughter of the legendary Quincy Jones, who was a mentor and collaborator to countless artists, including Michael Jackson and Ray Charles.

2:26But it's your mother, the actress Peggy Lipton, who died in 2019, who seems to have been your compass. And I wondered, what were her reassuring qualities? Oh, my mom was an angel. She's a very sensitive person. She's really dialed into something deeper. than just being here on this planet. She was a seeker. And she got famous really young. She was on TV when she was 19 on the Mod Squad. And it just all happened so fast. She was really famous really fast because there were just three TV networks in the States. And so you're watching that show if you're watching TV. So everybody knew who she was and she kind of, she just, you know, exploded onto the scene.

3:25She was so beautiful and she had such cool style and it was a lot for her. And I think she decided kind of quickly that that wasn't the path she wanted for her life because she wanted something else. She wanted something deeper. So I think that part of my mom was extremely comforting for me. She was a very loving, very affectionate, very empathetic, very sensitive, and very deep person. God, how lovely. Especially my mother died too, but I wasn't connected to her in the way you describe. and it's a different feeling. It's something that I love to hear about, and I know there was something there between my mother and I, but it didn't get expressed very often.

4:27So I feel like I can kind of connect to that via other people's closeness and remember the things that were possible between my mom and myself. Yeah. I mean, I do think moms and daughters are always complicated, always. As much love is there. And I'm with you because I don't have a mom now. I'm always sort of searching for this particular type of relationship, you know female relationship that is that comfort yeah that very comforting and protective person so I definitely have that in my life to make up for what I don't have anymore yeah I've noticed that I look for my mother figures in men as well interesting and they're really good mother figures sometimes.

5:28Yeah. Like what qualities in a man have you found that are maternal? Well, this sort of nurture and attentive attention to well-being that was something very lacking. I mean, my era of upbringing, I don't know if people paid such attention to that, you You know, making sure someone's getting from A to B. And even things like cooking, I don't cook. Right. So sometimes if my man is a cook, I'll feel like it's sort of a maternal thing. It is. Very nurturing. Yeah. Food. That's so nice. I love thinking about men embodying those qualities because, you know, for so many reasons. But my partner and I made this movie about this swim teacher.

6:33And he was raised with just a mom and not a dad and four sisters or something. And he's a mom in the pool. That's why he's such a good teacher, you know. That's how he learned how to be a parent and a teacher from his mom. I just love that. It's the most brilliant movie. I mean, it's completely spellbinding. I love that. It was nominated for an Oscar as well. It was shortlisted. Right. So it was like the 15 before the 5. We didn't make the 5, but we made the 15. Yeah, that's really something. And your mother, as you described, was incredibly beautiful and the epitome of 70s glamour and purity.

7:20And your dad was also incredibly beautiful. Both of them had this great style. And I wondered whose dressing influenced you the most. Well, I have a lot of fashion psychology to work out here today, Bella, so I hope you're ready. um i my parents were so cool and they had such an innate sense of style and i i know everybody says this but i mean it i was like a bit of a nerd like an 80s nerd not like a cool nerd like a nerd like i had a desktop computer before everybody else and like a modem and um i loved little suits like I liked to be, I liked like a sensible slack. Do they have the word slack in UK?

8:17Yeah. I liked a sensible slack and like a little three-piece suit. I liked a bolero tie. Always, always a button down shirt, button to the top. I grew up wearing a uniform, but I think I always, I felt like my parents were the stylish ones and I was the sort of brainy one in opposition to them. So I don't know if I've ever felt stylish growing up, but I had a very strong sense of what I wanted to wear. And then I guess as I got older, I was lucky because I did have such stylish parents that I could realize my wishes of, you know, suits and blazers and button downs and kind of, you know, masculine coated dressing in a way that was elegant because they gave me that.

9:16They gave that to me, you know. So maybe closer to, I don't know, I'm definitely somewhere in the middle my mom was very kind of ethereal cool you know she had a lot of like when she was young aussie clark and um you know she was like a child she was a hippie she lived in la from the time she was 19 you know the people she kind of ran around with was very sort of like the the the roots of boho chic. Yeah. And my dad was just cool, just the coolest and could kind of pull off anything and did anything from like dashikis to Missoni to, he loved like Chinese tailoring and, you know, like Chinese silk.

10:08He had a lot of custom suits. He loved a double collar. What's a double collar? Like he'd wear a shirt over a shirt, like two collared shirts. Yeah. So cool. More like a chain, you know. I'm somewhere in the middle, and then I'm also my own thing, I guess. Yeah, I identify a lot with your button to the neck. I feel... You feel seen? Yeah, I feel seen, and I find there's a lot of, like, you know, what's your best feature? And I feel like, well, maybe my best feature is my brain. So I want a collar to kind of emphasize that oval. Yeah. And identify with that. I once had a kind of creepy older employer ask me, why do you always wear button-down shirts and button them all the way to the top?

11:14And I just said, style, style. That's a very good response. Because what was the first garment that changed the way you felt about yourself? And what age were you when you noticed the connection between what you were wearing and what it gave you? I had this brand called Underoos. I don't think they have them in the UK, but they were like superhero undergarments. I had a Wonder Woman underoos. And I would put that on and just feel so happy. I was probably like five. Like totally synthetic material, super cheap. But I can remember the red and the gold and the trompe l 'oeil belt, like the Wonder Woman gold belt over the red suit.

12:23It was like a two-piece suit. Just feeling so cool and empowered. Yeah. They're very empowering, this kind of total look. Yeah, like today. my underoos

12:45when your parents divorced your older sister Kedada went to live with your father and you left with your mother how were your feelings of conflicting loyalty so funny I was just talking about this the other day I don't think I think that much about that time I would go spend weekends with my dad I felt very protective of my mom. You know, I think maybe that's just typical for either a younger sibling or a daughter. My sister had like a big, she was a teenager and she had a big life. And, you know, she was like super cool and had lots of friends. And I would have a bunch of friends over to my dad's house and I was with my mom.

13:38And my mom went back to work when my parents separated for the first time in a long time. So that was new. But yeah, I think I felt protective of her. I wanted to make sure she was okay, you know, and that she knew I was with her. I was a very well-behaved, for the most part, teenager. Like I didn't get grounded. I did my homework. I had a pretty wholesome after-school situation. I was on the dance squad. I was in the math club. I was in student government, and I would do my homework and dance with my friends, and they'd come over and eat snacks, and we'd watch TV. So, you know, I think she probably really liked that stability.

14:34And I think I probably liked feeling useful in that way to her. Yeah. Because you described your rebellion as a child of artistic people as being academic. And you said, I like this idea of being able to control my environment. And the easiest way to do that is you work on something and then you get a grade. And I wondered if you do use your intellect to create certainty where maybe there isn't much certainty. yes yes i absolutely i did and i do and it's something i'm at this point in my life trying to move away from because i think what it provided for me was a sense of control that i could control my environment which we all know is not real we we don't have control of anything except how we react to things and how we feel emotionally to things.

15:39So I think that served a purpose. It did me very well. It did get me this sort of great life and friends in college and people had things in common with me intellectually, but I now feel like certainty is prohibitive. Like the need, this seeking out certainty, it's a fool's errand and it's prohibitive because it's not, you know, at this point, it's not the point. The point is to accept the things you cannot change. It's true. My Pilates teacher was telling me about a book that's all about the relationship between anxiety and certainty and why people think that, you know, certainty will quell anxiety.

16:42But of course, as there isn't really any certainty much. I'm sure seeking certainty creates more anxiety. Yeah, I would have. Because you're under the delusion that you can somehow control something, and then you trick yourself into thinking something you're doing is changing circumstance. And then when it doesn't change circumstance, then it's your whole kind of structure, the rule of being alive is brought into question, which is existential. Yeah. Yeah, there's no control. There's no control. You starred in the political satire mockumentary of Parks and Recreation, which ran for seven seasons and never dates.

17:30And you have a bewitching way of being incredibly deadpan and funny while often berating someone. And I wondered, when did you first know that you were funny? that's so funny i was just talking to a friend of mine who she doesn't think she's um funny or caustic or witty she was like i want to learn how to be that way how do i how do i do that and she was like how did you do that and i was just thinking about the amount of times it was it felt like a source of survival for me starting from a very early age but i was obsessed with Saturday Night Live and Second City TV and sketch comedy and comedy films.

18:20Like I loved vacation and airplane. And it felt like a language I understood. And so it's like I learned language. And I remember being 13 and having a birthday party, a dance party, And I stopped the party so I could do my imitation of the church lady, which was this Dana Carvey character on Saturday Night Live. And I think it was only funny to me. But I really wanted to do it at my birthday. So great. And you did it. I did it. And I had the DJ put on, like, there's a little reverb effect when she says, her thing is, who do you think is possessing you? Oh, I don't know. Satan? And it just, like, has a little bit of an echo.

19:14And I mean, I'm sure my friends who love me supported me, but I'm not sure it was that funny. It sounds really funny. It sounds great. I think it's such an amazing thing to have actually done rather than just thought it and that you did it right and that's I I remember fantasizing about those moments but I didn't do them it's taken me my whole life to become more visible well I have a lot of those too I mean there's things that I just you know of course wanted to do and didn't do but I guess I had a captive audience because it was my birthday. No, you did. You had no choice. That's wonderful. And you're brilliant at it.

19:58So you must have known that you had this ability somewhere and you actually took the first action, which is everything. And I found these brilliant graphic fanzines on eBay, which you wrote called Frenemy of the State, about a socialite recruited by the CIA. I've got one here. In fact, I've got loads because I love reading comics. Oh. I also learned all my Freudian analysis history from this comic book. And I think there's a great way of learning things that are kind of dense or kind of daunting through other mediums. But I wondered why it was, so your character was a socialite who'd been recruited by the CIA, and I wondered why you'd chosen the CIA.

20:59Well, it sort of fits into my kind of life narrative. I grew up in L.A. and there's a lot of sort of, you know, L.A. is a city of dreams and fantasies. And there's a lot of people there who their job is to socialize and to look good. And I started thinking, and actually I knew this girl who, she was really adept at like hacking her boyfriend or ex-boyfriend's email. And she got in trouble. She got arrested. I was like, that's so cool that she had this skill because her passion was such that she learned how to do this thing just to get the information she wanted. So I started thinking about, wouldn't it be funny, it's a perfect cover.

22:03Like a girl who is at every party in every country, every launch, every whatever, champagne, I don't know, soiree, is the perfect cover for somebody to be recruited by a government agency. And if the girl, like the character in the graphic novel is, she's kind of boy crazy and she's spying on her boyfriend and she's, her hurt causes her to have like this great skill set, which she probably had anyway. But it makes her an even more perfect person who's willing to kind of take the risk, break some laws to get the information she wants. And they kind of hold this information over her head as like almost blackmail to make her have to join the CIA.

23:03But there's also like, I mean, I think modern times that feeling has kind of changed. but the CIA kind of held this, you know, there's this sort of romantic version of CIA, which we know now is not true. Yeah, I suppose it's the romantic notion of, like, here people used to be recruited at, they probably still are, Cambridge and everything. Or MI6. Yeah. Yeah. And then all these kind of desperate, alcoholic, ex-public schoolboys with just these kind of withered moral code of resignation. It's not a great life. No. I think, I don't know, but I think people who say yes to work for government agency, I think it's pretty grim.

23:59It self-selects for somebody who maybe doesn't really fully want to have their own personal life. But I remember doing research and learning that most secrets are told during pillow talk, which is why they love to set a honey trap. Yeah. Which makes sense. Yeah. You're vulnerable. Like the jackal, the brilliant scene with the government minister. Yeah. Who is it? I can't remember the actress, but I watched it again recently. It was so good. The show? The movie. The original movie. I love that movie. The Day of the Jackal. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Because you also made a film with the Muppets where you get to interact with Kermit, who's everyone's secret crush.

24:50Yeah. I wondered, did you kind of fall in love? Is it possible to fall in love or become emotionally involved with a puppet? It seemed infinitely possible watching. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, first of all, yes. very quickly you forget that these brilliant puppet performers are actually manning the the puppet so there were a lot of times in between takes where i would just have full conversations with kermit you know like he was real yeah and i really liked him and steve who was the puppet performer. I mean, he's great. He clearly infused this little felt green guy with all this personality and great rapport.

25:41But yeah, I once, it never got made, but Will and I, we wrote a TV show about puppets and yeah, this feeling like you could maybe fall in love with a pop it yeah yeah because karmic he's i mean talking about maternal figure men he's you could just imagine him taking care of you and being a great lover and then bringing you orange juice in bed you fella you've really really really thought about this i mean listen you're gonna have to fight miss piggy that much i know gosh i would no one could win against her so yes but you're You're right. He's sort of like the calm-headed caretaker because Piggy's just kind of doing her thing.

26:33And he's like, he is very, but I guess we could say that's also, it should be paternal. To do. To do that. Yeah. It should be paternal. you know that should be this sort of like um i don't know taking care of stuff can be maternal and paternal yeah you know no it is my dad was a great cook oh was he god that's that just doesn't feel fair he's how can you be that good at two things he had some other flaws but well don't we We all, we all. Hey, everybody, it's Prime Video's Cassidy Hubberth, and the Chicago Sky Skylar Dingens and I are bringing our new podcast, and Mom to Chicago, for Vox Media's The Lineup on Friday, July 24th.

27:31And Mom is the conversation motherhood deserves. It's honest, unfiltered, and real. Skylar and I are diving into what it actually looks like to be both a working professional and a mother. The identity shifts, the career pivots, the mental load, and the stuff that usually stays behind closed doors. And at The Lineup, we're bringing that conversation live. It's a full day of programming that celebrates this amazing league and its players. Three stellar podcasts, four legendary hosts, one stage. Get your tickets for The Lineup at voxmedia.com slash lineup. That's voxmedia.com slash lineup. See you all Friday, July 24th in Chicago.

28:11Vogue.

28:14Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global Fashion News and Features Director at Vogue and co-host of the Run-Through Podcast. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of Vogue. On Tuesdays, join me as I interview influential designers like Calvin Klein, Rachel Scott, and Simone Belotti. On Thursdays, join Chloe Mao, Head of Editorial Content at Vogue US, and Choma Nadi, British Vogue's head of editorial content as they explore fashion through the lens of culture with guests like Doja Cat and Margot Robbie. Listen and watch the run through with Vogue wherever you get your podcasts and Vogue's YouTube channel.

28:53Is Kamala Harris running for president again? Listen, I might. I might. I'm thinking about it. But does anybody want that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't see why not. Absolutely, I think Kamala Harris will run for president again. I don't think there'll never be a woman president in the United States. Now, wait, wait, wait, you can't just walk away on that. Tell us why. I know it's still early to talk about 2028, but as we build to our post-Trump future, it seems to be a big question about the Democratic Party. Kamala Harris leads all of the presidential polling. So does this mean that the person who led the ticket in 2024 is going to lead the party again in 2028?

29:36The campaign needs to be called Bye Bye Bye. It's just a tainted brand. Do you think from a donor community largely that there's any appetite for a Harris return? I don't. I'm Estet Herndon, and this is America Actually. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. And you featured in a Calvin Klein underwear ad with Kirsten Dunst directed by Sofia Coppola. and you dress in a charming, slightly boyish way that's more suggestive than overt. And I wondered, how do you feel about being naked? Good question. I am definitely not one of those people, as maybe you can tell by my outfit.

30:25Like you, I'm actually maybe they're not mutually exclusive, But I don't identify with my body and certainly not my naked body. It's not how I express myself. I'm very, very in awe of people who can and do. I think it's so cool to just be so comfortable with your body. I, you know, Sophia and I had a lot of conversations about that before that shoot because I obviously trust her. Her eye trained on femininity is a very different thing than just an underwear ad, which is why I was happy to do it. Because I knew she would make me feel beautiful in a way I would want to feel beautiful. Like not in a sort of like male gaze-y sort of way.

31:23but yeah I don't it's not my fave I'm going to be honest and there's been times in my life where I've gotten really in shape I did remember doing one shoot in like bra and underwear around the time when everybody was doing everybody had to do that do people still have to do that? maybe they do, I don't know but I still look back and think like did not feel like me. But I have a lot of women who say to me, today is the best you're going to look for the rest of your life. So enjoy it. And so some part of me thinks, I think about being 25 and feeling self-conscious about my body and how different that body is from my body today.

32:20But I still don't think it would make me any more naked, want to be any more naked. What about you? Well, I was going to ask, do you have like artifices to do with nakedness? Because I know I have kind of things I wear that make me more naked. Because I find that sort of 70s nakedness where you're just like striding around with nothing on. I just couldn't you know it just makes me feel so cringy at the thought but now I'm older I'm more into it than I ever was when I was younger and I even once asked got someone to take a photograph of me naked because I thought when I was 25 I thought when I'm my age now I will look back and think what was all this hatred of body stuff right so i forced myself to do it and once i was naked i sort of barely noticed and i've got the picture in my in my bedroom and i'm glad i did it and but it's this exacting thing and i wondered what are your skills to do with you know how do you get naked without being naked good question well first of all that's so cool you did that that's a that's a photograph I would kind of like to be painted naked that feels I mean I love nudes so much yeah I love your dad's nudes so I just loves nudes they're so cool and interesting And the human body is so varied and then also not.

34:06I recently took a figure drawing class and it was like an eight-hour class where you just have this beautiful 75-year-old naked woman who just kind of fell asleep, knotted off for eight hours in front of us. And it was so interesting. It wasn't long enough. I loved it. So I would love to be a part of that, just that discipline, you know, and be captured in that way. But I guess these days I do love like a sheer dress if you're wearing. I always like like a boy short and a bra with like a very sheer dress over it. I think that's very elegant. Love that. and I've never minded my legs. There's other parts of my body I don't like.