RERUN: Kate Moss

0:00Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

0:42Excuses are easy. An epic movie night? We don't have enough snacks. Dinner party with the girls? We'd have to decorate. Surprise date night? Nothing to wear. But Amazon's Prime same-day delivery lets you say yes before the moment slips away. Try that new popcorn maker. Order those cheeky drink glasses. Get that new perfume. And turn that I wish we could into an I'm so glad we did. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast. Same-day delivery. It's on Prime. Available in select areas. Terms apply. Support for the show comes from Injun. Running a small business means every dollar has to work hard.

1:26But if your team is still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. Injun is the fastest growing travel and spend platform in the country, built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes. Earn up to 10 % back on hotels. And in 2025, Injun customers saved more than$300 million on travel. with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than a thousand businesses join Engine every month. Join them and get$500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at engine.com slash box.

2:11Hi, come in.

2:17Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Kate Moss. Hi, Bella. Can you describe what you're wearing today and why you chose these clothes? I was inspired by you today, actually. This is an old Salon dress, but it reminds me of the kind of things, the kind of masculine feminine that you wear. And I'm wearing a Vivienne Westwood sex shoe because that's what I associate you with as well. Like that's how I, when I met you, just left Vivian. And I know that she inspired you a lot. So that's why I chose this today. I like the sheer tight as well. That's really very pretty and very, very kind of belle de jour. Yeah.

3:06With the sex shoe. Oh yeah, she's always a good look. It's a reference, belle de jour. I wanted to ask you whether fashion was a thing in your household and did you have to ever fight to wear the things you wanted to wear? I definitely never thought of my house as a fashion household ever. I was never like, I want that dress or, you know, no, it wasn't. and I had to fight for a pair of ankle strap shoes because my mum said they were common and eventually I got them from Ravel. I think I was about eight and I remember driving home with them on. They were pale pink ankle straps and I was like, oh my God, I couldn't stop looking at them and I just wanted to sleep in them and I loved them so much.

3:58it's funny isn't it yeah I remember we didn't really have new things and I came to London and visited my dad and he took me to this shop it was called T T Elliot on the corner of Westbourne Grove and I bought these these wedges with a blue they had ankle straps too it's all about an ankle strap how old were you I was 14 then yeah and uh and I remember going home on the train pulling up my skirt and putting my feet on the yeah seat across and like thinking admiring finally I think it is something about an ankle strap being like sexy isn't it like it's still now when I wear an ankle strap it's like it feels like a bit it's there is something it's sort of demure but there's this thing holding your ankle yeah it definitely draws attraction to the ankle and probably the ankle is quite a sexual part of your body yeah like in even in Jane Austen and stuff they go on about the ankle or the wrist you know these bits that they get to see yeah and do you do you have any hang-ups about your body yeah of course because you're so good at I mean, I've watched you working and you just treat yourself as an instrument and you act as though you have no self-consciousness and you're dazzling.

5:31Like in those vampire films where they talk about the vampires glamorizing someone. And you do that when you're working, you glamorize everyone and we become spellbound by you. well I think at a very young age I started working and I started doing pictures um topless and I was very very conscious of um I have a mole on my right tit and um I hated it so much I would cry I never wanted to show never wanted to be topless I would cry and and I had to get over it because the photographer was like if you don't do this I'm not going to book you for the next job so I had to get over it and so then I was just like maybe he really gives a shit about my mother so and then I just kind of like I think as a model you can't be very self-conscious because your body's kind of not your own when you're a uh when you're a vessel for somebody else's imagination.

6:41God, that's so interesting. Something like that. Yeah. God. And was that the Corin Day pictures you could do? And I was like 15 and I was topless in a magazine and I was still at school. And luckily the face wasn't really sold in Croydon, so I don't think anyone really saw it. But I was still, no, I mean, they did. they heard and it was kind of like you know they took the piss out of my brother and all like your your sister's got her tits out and you know I think he probably suffered more than I did about it it must have taken a lot of courage I mean everyone else had those pictures on their tear sheets you know as inspiration because they were it was so fresh and beautiful you looked so amazing I think at the time it was very closed I mean it was only me and Corinne and Mel and Drew Jarrett as their hairdresser and Dick Page was the makeup artist and so you know the boys I'd make the boys I would make Drew turn around because he was straight and I was like I'm not having him look at me and you know I kind of was I was really shy but it was so it was like family I'd worked with them so many times already that I knew them really well but I still like even after that shoot I did I did cry a lot about taking my clothes off with her I really didn't want to do it and do you remember the first time you found a piece of clothing that made you feel different I think like like Vivian Westwood like the bustier when I was like 15 I thought I think like we'd go down the rue St.

8:30George in Croydon and I had like a pair of Adidas high tops I'd got in New York when I'd gone and a puffer jacket a leather not puffer jacket a leather goose with a mink collar black and we'd gone to Harlem to buy it on Easter Sunday and it was packed it was so mental and um I went home and they were like oh my god it was like proper fashion in Croydon that was the look and um yeah I was allowed in the recent George after that even though I was 15 because I had a good look on it's amazing the power of a look where it just kind of makes people accept you I mean it sounds prejudiced but it's not actually it just a good look and I mean if you wanted to get in a nightclub at 15 you had to have a look for sure I mean, even if you're a boy at that time, you know, if you were head to toe in Westwood, you know, and a three-tongued trainer and a, you know, I don't know.

9:31It was all like, it was more fashion then. Yeah. Like late 80s, like the wag and the brain and, you know, the clubs that we used to go to and come up from Croydon on the train. And it was like, are we going to get in? and, you know, they'd push us to the front, obviously the girls, me and my friend, and, you know, we'd be all like, you know, trying to be sexy and get in. And then they were with us, so then they'd get in, the boys. Do you remember that night we went to see George Michael at the Albert Hall and then we all went back to your place afterwards with Stefano Pilati and Johnny Shankid and Jerry Stafford.

10:16And then you made us all dress up. You dressed everyone up from your wardrobe. That is my favourite thing to do, really. It's almost like a challenge for me. Like when I go, like, I know what, I've got to look for you. And like the challenge of like, in my wardrobe, I've got something for everyone. And I love doing that. It is my favorite, like creating like a look on somebody that they never thought they would do or they wouldn't have thought about. It's like it's it's it brings me a lot of joy doing that. Because when did you start doing that? I mean, I think I was in my 20s when I started like getting a lot of clothes, like collecting clothes from like, you know, I bought things from India, you know, just on travels and stuff.

11:05It's always been easier for me to buy something that I can fit in my suitcase. Because I lived out of a suitcase for so long, I wouldn't think twice about spending£3 ,000 on a dress, but when it comes to something I can't fit in my suitcase, like a piece of furniture or a picture, I can't. I don't know. I've got like a block. So I had a lot of clothes. because didn't you used to dress up your little brother yeah sylvia he was called sylvia and i think basically i was my mum wouldn't really didn't really like people coming over to play i don't know why but um so i would get bored and i'd dress him up and then i'd make him like ring the doorbell and pretend he was my friend and sylvia he found a picture of sylvia and framed it saying too Kate loves Sylvia I mean it's the most hilarious he's got I don't know where I've had a brown wig he looks like Elizabeth Taylor kind of gone wrong he's got like massive tits he's only like seven or something it's so funny it's really and blue eyes shadow obviously and a beauty spot and red lipstick he looks like a really major drag queen like but as an eight-year-old and you dress him up yeah I dress him up and make him ring the doorbell and say um it's Kate coming out can Kate come out and play?

12:29So I had like a made up a friend. And how did your mum react to that? Can't remember. Probably, no, she can't. I don't know. You silly bugger, I'm cooking the tea. Leave me alone. I don't know. And where do you start with an outfit? I start with like, where am I going and who am I seeing? I kind of, I always, because I have to, because if you've got too many options, you have to kind of, I think, narrow it down to like, who am I, not who am I today, because it's always, but who am I with today and what kind of, I always like want to please someone a bit. It's almost like I want somebody, I want to wear something that when I turn up, they go, oh, I like that.

13:17I wouldn't wear like the same thing to see you as I would to see Katie Grant weirdly or somebody like that I don't know like or Camilla I don't know like women or men or whoever I think and also like where am I going like and who's going to be there and what and what do I want to and I want them to like it I suppose this is like my dream look the things that really inspired me when I was first starting my own label this I like cover up but I like very short and legs I think are so funny because I wouldn't have thought that about you I always I always you know think you're a suit girl yeah apart from when you wore that amazing pink Aussie Clark do you remember that yeah oh my no was it Aussie Clark No, you had a dress on from like the 20s.

14:16Oh, yes. I had one that Susie Cave sent me. Oh, my God. And it was just like this rag and it was the prettiest thing. You looked so amazing. I think you should wear dresses more. Like, you know, like that time you had something at your shop and I found that Aussie Clark and it had the red, green and gold stripes. Oh, yeah. And I was like, that's so Bella. Yeah. And you were like, where's that dress from? Yeah. I love it when there's so many times when you've appeared and you've done exactly that. I've become enchanted by what you've done with what you're wearing and the kind of effect it's had.

14:57You're a master at that. I don't know about master or anything. Oh, yes. No. Do you and Lila still do fashion police? Yeah, I did it yesterday. I was not just me and Lila, just me on my own. I was like, I was in the car and there was this woman and this man and they were walking down the street and she had like a, I don't know, it was the weirdest look. And I went, I bet, where are they from, those people? They're definitely not English. And he had a big camera. So I knew he was like a, he was a tourist. And they were walking down Camden High Street. She had a port pie hat and a yellow Chanel backpack, tights, leather shorts and a yellow Nike high top trainer.

15:42and it was extraordinary. And I really was like, Nina, Nina, Nina, pull them over. And then I was like, where are you from? And they were in France because we had a bet that they were Canadian. Canadian? They were French. I was like, they're definitely not from Paris for sure. I'm terrible. It is a bit, they were nice though. I said, oh, bonjour, you know, and you know, have a lovely day. I wasn't rude, but I do like it. I do like going like, wow what were they thinking i love the new not like i don't like doing that i don't want to be judgy but you know when you just go like nino nino like fashion police there is a there was a tv show wasn't there called fashion police was there there should maybe i'm making it up maybe i should have one yeah you should have one we should have one together all around the streets of all the different countries especially and then like the really good ones like wow where did they come up with that.

16:38Yeah. But it's like, it's the code, isn't it? That's what I love about what you're describing. Sometimes I get on the tube and I see some, someone wearing just amazing look. Yeah. And I wonder what they're, they, everyone's always doing something. It's like, how am I going to affect? And, uh, and I suppose in our, in fashion, there's so much code. I hate code. What bit of it don't you like? Because I see it as shortcut, like what you're describing as shortcut. But tell me what the code, what code don't you like? Oh, I hate fashion codes. Yeah. Like I hate like, oh, this bag's in fashion, so everybody designs the same fucking bag and sells the same bag.

17:24I hate that kind of thing. Like, oh, this is fashionable, so everybody has to have that in their shop. I really don't like that. like I walked through the airport the other day and in every shop was the same shoe in the same bag from like every designer I was like what the fuck is the point in doing that I don't understand nobody's just nobody's like they might just put it on the runway different but then when it gets to the shop it's all the same it's like why it's not it's not fun when it's fashionable or like you know like the trends that's what they call them in their trends yeah trends are terrible trends are awful because as soon as it's a trend you can't wear it anymore yeah it's out you're you're dated the minute you're trendy yeah it's done is there anyone who's inspired you fashion wise so many people david bowie jolly thunders keith you know men i think inspired me just as much as women like you know bridget bardo um grace kelly anita palenberg yeah anita was yeah anita is great inspired me well she inspired me because of her love for fashion as well like i i would hang out with her and we would spend all night in my wardrobe like doing looks and playing and shopping and we'd go to like and you know vintage places and she'd and she would be like that dress is a 30s Schiaparelli or something.

18:57You know, she knew so much about it as well. And she kind of, she was really, she had like an amazing taste. She put things together in such an original way. But even saying the word original way sounds awful. She was just, she just had no, there was nothing that, there was no barrier. She would just do things and then you'd wonder why on earth you've never seen that before because it was just so. I know. The last thing she, like when I went to stay in Jamaica and she just left and she left me a present on the bed saying, you know, I'm sorry I'm not there. I hope you have an amazing time. They were lime green lightning bolts, like down for this long earrings, with like crystals all over them.

19:50I was like, wow, she would actually wear them. She would. I mean, that takes like, she's like fearless when it came to fashion. Yeah, she was fearless. And God, she was so strict as well. So when she chose something, when she'd say, I need to buy a jumper from you, and I think, oh, thank God, you know. Oh, my God, yeah. It's okay, you know. Yeah, if Anita likes it, I'm doing all right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Oh, God. But I often think of her, if I feel like I need a compass, I think Anita. What would Anita do? What would Anita do? Yes, yeah, I know. She was just the best. Yeah. Yeah. And is there a random garment that a man wears that attracts you?

20:42A random garment? Well, I suppose I only say that because I think if I see a man in a khaki shirt, I just down, I just think, oh, that's attractive. Yeah. I was going to say a shirt. Really? Yeah. See, I like, weirdly, kind of like old men's shirts. One of my boyfriends had this shirt that was like passed down from his grandfather. And it was a dress shirt, but it was like so old and like, you know, when it's just a lift and he would wear it. And I was just like, oh, so, you know, because I don't know, like old things like my friend's grandfather died and she gave me his old like Turnbull and Nassau pajamas.

21:29You know, like they'd been worn and worn and worn and worn. and they were so beautiful. I was like, oh, you know, like that kind of old, worn, yeah. I'm not really, I don't, for me, like men in like trendy, fashionable clothes don't do it for me at all. So if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction? Well, it's funny you used to say that actually because there was a boy that I really fancied and I was like oh my god but he wears cowboy boots the fuck am I gonna do with that I can't go out with somebody who wears cowboy boots and when was this and then a long time ago when I was like 17 and you know him obviously he was American as well disaster in a cowboy boot and I was like do you know what I'm gonna let it go I can get rid of them I'll just lose them so I did and um I went out with him for ages and you know he was one of the like the loves of my life so thank god it was you know it didn't put me off so there's always room for negotiation I think yeah that's a good way of but then I did see somebody the other day and they had a really bad shoe on and I thought no I can't I mean he's really cute it wasn't for me it was a friend of mine's uh he was a friend of mine and but she asked me what she think and I was like he's really cute but that shoe It's kind of like a no-go.

23:01So they have to be bigger than the offending piece of clothing or gun accessory. It's awful, isn't it? It seems so shallow. It sort of sands it in a way, but I think there's something in it because I think there are other messages. So it's like a love test. If someone, like the cowboy boot, you got over it and there was a love, and sometimes you override it which is different yeah and it's a disaster like I think you know those kind of holiday romances like when you see somebody on a beach you know oh my god they're so cute and then you see them in normal clothes that can be a passion killer you get them back to London And you're like, oh, God, me, no way.

23:55It's like a kind of different person, really, for me. It's like if you're wearing, you know, it's like almost like city clothes and then beach clothes and somebody on holiday is so different than somebody in, yeah, in town. I suppose it changes all the proportion, doesn't it? because they can look like on a beach completely sort of just a person. And then when they, if the clothes are wrong, you see the wrongness of it all. You're the same as me, aren't you, really? Because I don't mind. I mean, I quite like unfit looking men. Yeah, me too. I don't like buff. I don't want anyone that looks like they've been to the gym.

24:39No. Even if they do go to the gym, they can't look like they do really. It's like natural. yes natural muscles I know it's a funny I just sort of registered that recently and thought yeah I actually find it quite sexy when someone's a bit out of shape yeah yeah I'm not into like I think it was probably from like growing up around male models as well I just really like those kind of pretty boys with perfect bodies just don't saying that you never know do you but You know, usually it's not the kind of guy I go for. Obviously, my track record is not the kind of man I'm attracted to. Support for this show comes from Odoo.

25:25Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

26:03Support for the show comes from Engin. Running a small business means every dollar has to work hard. But if your team is still booking travel the old way, it's costing you more than you think. Enjin is the fastest growing travel and spend platform in the country, built specifically for businesses like yours. Book a trip in as little as two and a half minutes. Earn up to 10 % back on hotels. And in 2025, Enjin customers saved more than$300 million on travel, with zero booking fees, no contracts, and no BS. More than 1 ,000 businesses join Enjin every month. Join them and get$500 when your business signs up and starts traveling at engine.com slash Vox.

26:47Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with a family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more. Do you remember the old Vivian days of Vivian Westwood shows, like when you first walked in her show and what it was like?

27:34I always remember seeing you in one of, I think it might have been the first one you did because I'd left by then. I came to a show in Paris and you came out in a corset, but it just finished under the boobs. And I thought, oh God, that corset's on back to front. That's so funny. I don't think it was. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. No. I looked on YouTube. By that point, that's what I'm saying. I had to get over the whole like tit thing. and then everyone just wiped my tits out, even though I didn't even like, I had such a phobia about them. I was like, I mean, still, well, not actually still, but, you know, like for a long time, I would do shoots and I had no top on, a long time.

28:21And, yeah, and at Vivian's show. And I think because they were, I was kind of so flat-chested that it wasn't like vulgar. they could kind of use me as like like it wasn't if I'd have had like amazing big tits like Helena Christensen or something and they put her in a corset with their tits out it kind of would have changed the vibe because I was so flat-chested and I had a big mole it wasn't it was different yeah you were just like an ingenue I mean I you just were so enchanting it was you were so charming there was so much charm in your whole demeanor and how you wore that and it was like you didn't really notice the nakedness and Vivian wasn't she wasn't really into sexualizing people she just wanted the clothes to to be a certain way and to be radical yeah and you it's funny you say that though because all those clothes I think of are so sexy like the bustiers and the sex shoes and even the punk stuff that was like, you know, radical was so sexy.

29:32It was. And the crutch minis and the whole thing. It's like, but the way she saw it, it was never sexual in that way, was it? Yeah. It was kind of like, fuck you, wait. I know. It was amazing. So I remember her developing the corset and we went to the... No way. Were you there? Yeah, I was there then. No way. And because she'd come back from Italy and I started working for her then. I think I was about 23 or 22. And we went to the costume department of the National Theatre, no, the Opera House. And she said, I want to find this corset like the old ones. Oh, my God. And then she found it. And I was expecting something like, you know, that had room for breasts.

30:26But there was this thing. It was like. Flat. Yeah, totally flat. It was like a kind of washing board or something. And I thought, oh, no, that's awful. And I just so didn't get it. But she, you know, she just saw beyond. And then she made the corset. I remember the first one took something like 28 hours to make. and then gradually, obviously, it speeded up like mad. And what was amazing was that all the girls just became obsessed with them. Yeah, I mean, in Croydon, I used to go to Cinderella Rockefellers and there was like, if you didn't have a fucking 50-month-old corset, you were not getting it.

31:06You weren't anyone. You were like, you just weren't. It's like a thing. You have to have one. And I'd saved up. I mean, I saved up. and every you know it was just the yeah it's like so it was such a thing of my of that that era for me and for lots of people I think Vivian Westwood was such a statement of like I don't give a fuck I'm gonna wear this and you know my parents couldn't you know it's like it was a rebellious thing I think she had like it was she set out to do something like that and obviously not with punk and everything but even you know as well when she did all that um with the bus chases it really was like rebellion it was it was amazing also using her love of kind of 18th century and stuff and having this decollete right up under the chin and then this flat rib cage and then this it was just wild wasn't it yeah so I know and then with the rocking horse shoes all like laced up and with the angels painted on the bustiers and the whole like and the pearls and that I mean I mean she's major she was amazing she was so great yeah and I loved I mean doing her shows and the chaos and the whole like you know it was all you know it's not it was so um punk still wasn't it even though she was like everybody was in the front row like it was so like mental it was really really exciting yeah it was really exciting and then fashion shows were much longer then as well it went on for yeah yeah exactly well you know then we'd have like three but you know some shows we'd have six looks yeah now they have one look and they have like five hours of hair make or like something ridiculous like the last show i did and lila was in it she had to be the show at eight in the morning and the show was until seven at night god it's like fucking hell what are they doing to her yeah and then it was like rehearsal rehearsal rehearsal this i don't know i mean i have no idea i was like oh my god can you imagine i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't um get away with that i mean under the way i was like i'd turn up like half an hour before yeah everyone knew what to do even though it was complete chaos yeah and it didn't matter even if i turned up three hours before i'd still be the last one to get ready anyway so really yeah because I just couldn't stop talking to everyone I was just so I couldn't sit still so I'd like just procrastinate about having it done and I'll be like oh there's such calling first lips and I'd still be smoking smoking back in the day yeah backstage yeah what what made you feel secure back when there were all the supers did you have like a big sister who super who took care of you I mean you the youngest of all of them and did you have like a favorite or yeah yeah I mean Christy and Naomi kind of took me under their wing it's uh you know yeah they did and then I felt scared but there was a long time where I didn't have friends you know who did as well before I even knew Naomi and Chris Carla Bruni she was so nice to me she took me for dinner once because I was like starving to death we were in Milan she's like darling you know and I was like I'm so hungry.

34:43You know, where I'm staying, there's no food, there's no room service. And she took me for dinner. She was really nice. What you don't hear about in, you know, film or you don't see in films or you don't hear about is all the loyalties in the fashion world. And I know there's loads of terrible stuff, but there is a lot of good stuff and there's a lot of friendships and people do look out for each other. Yeah, definitely. I mean when I there was you know when I had a bit of a what do you call it scandal um I had so much support from people in the fashion business you know that they were like fuck this and you know as soon as kind of I was able to go back to work I I got booked by everybody in like kind of like a no we're not going to let them cancel you kind of thing yeah it was amazing it's so good because I mean I know fashion's corporate and everything but there's still the individuals within it are so yeah conscientious you know people really stick up for each other and they just don't take shit yeah and they don't conform nearly as much as other I mean I've got Most of my oldest friends are in the fashion business.

36:05I mean, most of my friends I've met through the fashion. So, you know, they're not just fashion people. They're like my oldest friends. I mean, I've known Jess Hallett for 37 years. It's like fucking mental. That's amazing. She was a booker. Did she work at Storm when you first started? Yeah, she worked at Storm. She was my booker and then she was my PA and then she was my maid of honour and then my daughter's godmother and, you know, she's family. She comes every Christmas. So it's not really through fashion you make really good friends. Yeah. I think because people work so hard as well when you work together in that way.

36:48They understand what you have to do. Like if you told like normal people, like, you know, my mum still doesn't understand. like when I say I've really I've worked I've been working so hard she's like yeah right what do you do stand in front of a camera that's what I think that she means when she says she don't work like you don't really know what I have to do I know I think people perceive models I think maybe less so now there seems to be finally a real appreciation of what a model can bring to the story, how a model lights everything up, gives the, because clothes are nothing without people, of course.

37:31And that's why, you know, when you did go through that horrible time, everyone just wanted to show you, we wanted you there, you know, we wanted to be by your side and you showing how great you can make everything look awesome I think it's quite funny like sometimes even yesterday I was working they were like god you really know how you know you're so good and I was like people are still quite surprised when they see me working I think they like they don't get like some people just don't get it they're like really how is she still working and then I go on set and they're like oh god do you know what i mean yeah for sure i mean i go i do get i still get surprised some you know that i get like oh my god i'm still working it's mental i do get surprised because i did not think that i would be working at 50 that's for sure i was like 19 i got my whenever it was 18 i got my first vogue offer and i was like okay i came out i'm fine with that that's fine i did i did it i'm done even if I never work again I did Vogue you know what I mean yeah how many Vogue covers have you done now I don't know a lot I think I'm like I've had the most British Vogue covers do you ever do runway for a boyfriend to remind him of how good you are that's so funny imagine like this is what I used to be like this is how I can move no I never do runway but I do strip I do as I do quite like stripping as my I think it was um I think it was I was a stripper in a former life actually and being naked do you how do you feel about being naked do you wear something to be naked or do you are you good at being totally naked I need a heel or if I'm totally naked I mean, I can do it.

39:30I mean, I don't, on my own, but with a man, definitely, I like to have a heel, yeah. So interesting, that, because I don't want to, I can never be totally naked. Really? No, I like to have something on and then I'm naked. Oh, interesting. But being naked, it's like, I suppose like when I was sitting for my dad, I'd have no clothes on. Yeah. And that was for a purpose. Yeah. Yeah, for a picture I can be like, well, yeah, when I sat for your dad, I was totally naked. And yeah, it was a different, exactly, it was a purpose. But in my own life, I can, with a shoe. But you wear something. Like what?